on the next episode of sips suds and smokes on today's chat episode. We are talking with little boy Kendall and uh we're talking about beer for sure. Today, thinking back to those days, how many episodes did you think you would be on at that point? Oh no, more than five. I thought I might do a few and but now I've lost count. I really don't know.
Yeah, I didn't sit down and count but I would say you've probably been on a good 200 episodes probably by now, as much as I loved the beer component of this show. My favorite episodes were the hot chicken shows we did at party fowl. We had some hot chicken lovers together and we blind tasted like five or six different restaurants. Hot chicken and that was a blast. The next morning was not so fun, but the hot chicken shows were fantastic.
We'll be right back after this break brought to you almost live from the dude in the basement studios. Why? Because that's where the good stuff is. It sips suds and smokes with your smoke and host the good old boys get ready to learn everything you ever wanted to know and a whole lot that you didn't. It's time for a chat episode. Hey, welcome to this chat episode where everything good in life is worth discussing. I'm gonna, Boy mike and joining me here. Today is Good Boy Kendall mike.
It is a pleasure to be here with you today and just you, I'm really excited about this. Yeah, this is gonna be cool. Our chat segments are all about people behind the products or services. Well you talked about here on sip sudden smokes and today our episode is actually celebrating, you know, one of our co hosts on our 10th season of Soap Suds and smoke. That's been around that long. It's just absolutely just completely nuts that we've been around this long.
So um I'm I'm so happy to feature you know, this discussion, you know today with Kendall, Do you remember how we first met? Yeah, yeah, it was, I cannot remember that. It was a craft route. In fact I was is back in 2014. I was working part time there in the evenings. Oh, that's right. And uh Ryan who worked on the liquor side, you said you were gonna be coming in that night and uh you were an award winning podcaster and I needed to meet you because you were like the beer guy in town.
So so many people, you know, we had early days, they're working with craft brewed, so Sean who was still on the show. Um I mean he had a period of time where he was not on, but we did, you know, a lot of shows, you know, they're at craft brewed. Yeah, it was a, it was a fun place to go and I mean I still go there even though I haven't worked there in years, but it's a good, one of the best beer shops in town.
So one of my favorite stories about some of those early episodes that craft brewed was so we did it, that was one of the times, we did audience participation and I can't remember what beers we were talking about, but we had some people that we pulled from, you know, and within craft brewed if they wanted to be on the show, we recorded back in the, in the back room, which was pure concrete, it was like the worst place on the face of the planet you could have possibly recorded,
we had the worst gear on the planet, I think you've probably taken this episode down, you know, probably because I was so ashamed of how that went, but I'll never forget the guy that came up and we were asking them um I can't remember what the question was, it was like what would be the question that you would ask the brewer? Um and he leaned into the microphone and goes, what about them naughty parts?
Just like, dude, we're on NPR seriously, you know, I can hear the ombudsman going, yeah, those guys are definitely off, you know, for no reason whatsoever, but a lot of great days, you know, their craft brewed early on and more importantly, it led to a lot of, you know, people that have been on the show, Ryan has been on the show, you've been on the show, Shawn down on the show, everybody but Chip who owns craft fruit, Actually Chip was on an episode.
He was on that episode where the guy with the yeah, yeah he did. Yeah that was pretty funny and uh I love the fact that craft brewed is still around. I mean I hung out with Brandon there and you know the other night for yeah I was just in there having beers uh last week. It's a it's a great spot, it's not in my neighborhood so I don't get down that way as much but when I am I always stop by.
Yeah and you know there's always interesting things that seem to be you know, flowing on there and um that was the the big black friday you know they put all the stuff on from bourbon county and all these big you know into the year beers and yeah so I show up on Tuesday like you know a week later which is two for Tuesday and uh and and kind of helped clean the kegs out. So yeah I saw that they put a lot of the leftover drafting the prowler's.
Yeah it's uh I was not there in the morning, I don't wake up and stand in line for beer anymore, it's uh I'd rather sleep. Yeah it was funny that so reverend mark dropped by there as well and it was interesting that he and I picked exactly the same batch of bourbon County. It was that special batch for something like that that they put out. That was our favorite out of the four was good. I just had that at the saucer last week. Really won last round there before they shut her down.
Yeah that's sad. So interesting. They come and they go and yet we're still here man. There's always places to drink beer. Yeah so Thinking back to those days, how many episodes did you think you would be on at that point? Oh no more than five. I thought I might do a few and but now and now I've lost count. I really don't know. Yeah I I didn't sit down and count but I would say you've probably been on a good 200 episodes probably by now. Oh really? I was figuring about 52.
So I know you've been on a lot more than that. I've been on quite a few. That's for sure, yep. And uh I would say that we've tolerated dave equally over that period of time. You know it's really funny but I know you've said this a lot but you're like you know I don't know if that I'm part of the O. G. That's not true. You know so you are as much of the fabric, I did not start until 2015 I think that was season four.
Yeah but still I mean you know I I can't imagine having Uh you know even a few months drift you know, drift by without you being on at least one episode. So yeah I've listened to those early years, went back um back in 2014 listened everything you guys did. So I felt like I knew you even before I got on with you wow those are really so some pretty pretty interesting in some really bad episodes. I think it was a technical component of it that really just you know kind of crawls at me.
Although I look at a lot of the people and the conversations we had, it's like watching you know a train wreck in slow motion that nothing really bad happens. You know it's like wow it missed the goat, the trash can and missed the mailbox trains still standing upright. You know it's like you know somehow some way you know that's the way it went down while we are drinking today and we're gonna be chatting about some some of these beers as we are going to go on.
So we've pulled in some things from the cellar, we have some fresh local beers and the funny thing is what happened up front. Oh yeah we both brought a beer that was long past its prime would just like how do you do that? I mean I we we both have very uh eclectic sellers and um for some reason that both of us are completely independent of each other, walked down and grabbed. I I grabbed one that was absolutely infected.
Um So I don't mind talking about it was actually the quadruple big bad baptist, let's see, it was like batch three or something. Yeah, that was, I'm not sure what went wrong, but there was a little sour nous to it, it wasn't terribly funky or wildly off. Like you were reading on all the things that they dropped it into secondary barrels, it was like in a, in a bourbon barrel, in a rum barrel, barrel aged chocolate barrel aged almonds, barrel aged coffee and that all came together.
And there's just too many opportunities you picked up a bug along for a bug to sneak in and I think that's what happened and this beer has aged so long now that it really comes out. If you drank it fresh, you would have never noticed. I agree. And I'm sorry, I missed that moment to enjoy that. Fresh for sure.
Um And then what was funny is that you followed right behind me and brought a beer that, yeah, I brought a beer, It was a collaboration between um Blackberry Farm jester King creature comforts Nola brewing and Rising Productions for the newly Belt series in 2018, it was called Pleiades and it was a fantastic beer.
But even last year I had a bottle and it's like, okay, this thing is past its prime, it's still very good beer, but it's not as sharp as it was that year too, and it's been about another year. I had one bottle left, it might be the last bottle in the world. Um And it had just fallen off a lot which happens. That's why you don't want to just fill a cellar full of beer and a jit. I'm now convinced that you should mostly drink your beer fresh.
And um you know once stuff is about the past three years old you probably should drink it. Absolutely and you know, I think that's what's interesting is I think that we have all learned about how to manage, you know, beer sellers, you know over time and yet, I mean here's like to die hard industry veterans and we still got it like dead wrong. So I'm willing clearing out so much in my cellar at my cellar will never be as big as it used to be.
So definitely are suds rating for the For the big bad baptist quad from 2012 I think it was. So I think that was definitely a one for sure. And the pleiades give it a one. It's still tasted generally like beer. Well we've swapped and I will tell you that we actually moved on to a beer. That is actually pretty good. It's beautiful. So this is the great divide, 20th anniversary.
Um And this beer was actually made with grapes and tell them about the grape it was made and now you're gonna make me pronounce it v on. Yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to, I was trying to grab the bottle and so this is 2014 is uh I had no idea it was that old. I would not have guessed this is a seven year old beer but it's really funny.
So I mean of all the beers that I you know tend to think of, especially ones that I've aged with the great divide, I mean Yeti would definitely be uh definitely the ones that you would age. So not this is actually a Belgian ale. Yeah just a Belgian golden ale. Uh really dry that with the grape juice in there. Um I think the yeast just tore that up and just attacked it and it is super dry, it's clean, it's not very, you're not getting a lot of those big Belgian esters.
Um And it's just a beautiful beer. Very, I can't believe how carbonated is. The head on. This thing is amazing. Well I only hope that were around for 20 years, you know to be celebrating something you know for sure. Um But uh wow, what would be your rating on the great divide? I'd give it a 4 to 4.
Well I'm gonna stick with that as well, it feels like it's fallen off just a little bit and I bet around year three and four this thing was beautiful but it's still amazing and it's always really cool. And the thing that you and I both noticed was when I popped the crown cap, the C. 02 was like dead on, perfect. We were like, oh yeah, I know that noise. Yeah, I was like, yeah, yeah. It was like, okay, I'm with you now. For sure.
Well we're going to be enjoying a little bit more beer, you know, I'm sorry, I actually don't have any more fresh local beer. We got some fresh home made. Really? Yeah, okay, look at that. Yeah, for sure. Um, we're gonna talk a little bit more about Kendall's background and all things beer and hot chicken after the break here. Hey, welcome back to Subsection Smokes on today's chat episode. We are talking with little boy Kendall. I and uh, we're talking about beer for sure. Today obviously.
Yeah. So what is like one of your most memorable moments, you know on this show as much as I love the beer component of this show. My favorite episodes were the hot chicken shows we did uh at party fowl. We had some hot chicken lovers together and we blind tasted like five or six different restaurants. Hot chicken and that was a blast the next morning was not so fun, but the hot chicken shows were fantastic. So uh rather interesting.
Um, you know, episodes, so, uh, you know, I want to talk about these two hot chicken episodes that we did have definitely withstood, you know, time quite well and I'm, you know, I'm really proud of the fact that I think the way that we approach it really both allowed us to capture, you know, the conversation, you know around hot chicken, I've not really heard anybody do it quite the way we didn't know it was fun.
So the first episode was called, I Yearn for the Burn and it was about taking, I think we took about seven or 8 different restaurants um and we tasted them all blind and then we rated, you know them completely blind and then we announced the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, you know, choices out of that and those places are still around this is like 78 years ago and all but one are operational and the one that's not operational is, is working on coming back.
Yeah, so they just changed locations which is um pepper fire in the, in the storyline. So the first episode is called again called A Yearn for the Burn. So here's my favorite clip at least from that episode and then I'll tell you what happened with the second episode right after this, it's gonna be a good old boy Kendall and his top three picks. So take it away Kendall. What's your number three pick?
Well can I do a good old gal juliana here, are you gonna say there's honorable mentions there is an honorable mention because for me picking number three, my number three was difficult because I thought b was really flavorful. It was moist, but just not enough to get it up to what my real number three pick was, which was G. Which I just thought had great moistness. Really good fried chicken flavor and it had a heat that didn't hit you right at first.
But boy, when it snuck up on you, it hits you hard. It was just hot. I think F and G both had a little bit fresher. They were hotter and just the temperature of the chicken that may have come out of the grease a little later in the process compared to the others. Because obviously we can't taste all of these restaurants all at the same time, all at the same temperature. So that might be the last to to me were just hotter off the grease. Yeah, I agree with that too.
They seem like they're fresher and and just right out. So back to your ratings. Back to your ratings. Sorry, I really liked Ji and I was going to give that a smokes rating of two. This has my attention but I yearn for the burn. So you have another number three. Is that what you're saying? So that was my only number three but my almost like me but it didn't quite cut it almost number three was me. So my number two pick is F.
Which I also thought was 400°. It's pretty funny how I think I think we're all saying that because I wrote that down, it's it was crisp, very moist. I don't know what the way to describe the flavors these guys did, but it was just hot and it's the one that really hurt me a little bit, but if you want just heat, that's the one to go for. But I didn't think it was to use a beer term as well balanced as I was looking for.
So um yeah, that was that was my number two pick and I'm giving that a smokes rating of two. That's my attention. But I yearn for the burn. So you're saying the hot profile was pretty good on that one? Yeah, it was hot profile. So my number one pick was c and I liked it because I thought it was very balanced, just rich flavor. Just tastes like great fried chicken. It was it was crunchy, it was delicious And the heat on that one didn't just hit you in the face, but it really builds at first.
I didn't even think it was very hot about 30 seconds later. It's very hot. Uh and I just liked the way it it was just all around a great one for me. And I want to give you see a smoke rating of three about that. Very nice. I'll just go away so I can enjoy this a lot of threes. That was fun. So it was really, I I actually don't remember the key to that.
Do you remember what your 123 ended up being remember the collective 123 was I think I was close to the collective, I think I picked pepper fire and poultry fowl for sure. Okay, so are 123 and I don't remember the order. Uh well I remember the top was 400 degrees and uh then I want to say that pepper fire came in second and party foul actually came in.
Third party actually made the top three and it was a real surprising moment for all of us because it was, it was interesting, we were actually recording there at a party foul and I don't believe that any of us walked into that place and said you're worthy, you know, and and really thinking that they were going to make the time party file was new to the game, they hadn't earned the love of a lot of Nashville hot chicken and sorted through a lot of recipes, you know,
and and but that day it was good, they were making good hot chicken. So I love the second episode that we did, I don't want to spend a whole lot of time on this, but all I have to say is maybe the episode was you are an idiot. And so it was so we did a blind tasting of the hottest of the hot chicken in Nashville. And so what's funny about it is is it's the only episode that we've actually sent anybody to the hospital in.
So what happened was is that so the the, the episode itself was we tasted the hottest of hot chicken in town blind and we actually was not audience participation show and we had people that came up and they were tasting along with us.
And one of the things that they had to do was they had to taste it and raid it along with us, but before they could sit down or get a drink of something, they had to say the pledge of allegiance successfully before and I can't begin to tell you when somebody is under physical duress, they would skip a whole section and they go, I pledge allegiance to the flag and to the republic and wait, start over again. You know, it was just so hilarious.
So listen, if you missed either one of those episodes, go back and check it out. Uh the story of why we sent somebody in the hospital. So the cooks were actually downstairs, their, their kitchen is below ground at party fowl in the basement and one of the cooks actually got into some of the hottest of the hot that they were checking out.
And one of them was executioner from big shakes and they actually have a contest, you know where people are tasting uh executioner when I forgot what the other hot one is. It's actually a step up from an executioner. Anyway, I'm not, not even aware of that, I would not go there.
Actually sign that you have to sign a waiver and we actually had the participants to sign the waiver from the audience that day, but one of the cooks, you know, got into it downstairs and they actually wound up in the walk in cooler, uh, doubled over and we actually had to call in paramedics to come in and check out on them and they had to hang an ivy, you know, and uh flush them out with tons of water. All I know is there was not enough chocolate milk in that building that day.
It was, it was, it was, it was a great episode though, and I know that we're going to go back and reprise it, you know, we just need to refresh it just a bit, you know, um there's some interesting things that have, I think being introduced into the, you know, hot chicken market and, but that's the thing I love about Kendall is that a lot of people, you know, you're like, oh, Kendall is a beer guy, he has his, you know, cicerone, you know,
and there you are hanging out with us in the middle of the hot chicken episode. Hank was sparky and I both, I mean, you know, it's, it's like, yeah, and even, you know, we go out with Trent and sparky all the time and, and we're like, yeah, we're totally, and you know, I mean, I can't hang with them, you know, in terms of the heat that they enjoy. I'm, I'm about the middle of the road guy. Well and I'm a flavor Guy. I'm not like a heat person.
So absolutely, it's gotta be good chicken and yet you'll find all of us sitting there in 400 going a key, you know, thank you so much for you know, making this chicken, you know, for us today. You know, please stay around, can you just expand just a little bit, you know, one more location. That would be great. So you have a day job. I do have a day job. I'm a community and content manager for a large Nashville health care technology company. So I manage online communities.
I've been in healthcare tech for over 20 years. I've used to do the really techie stuff, you know, building the software, testing it and I moved more user facing. Um and so now it's, it's just interacting with, with our, our customers and our users on the online communities. It's a, it's a fun job. I really enjoy what I do well. And you also work with left who runs that's some of day jobs, Healthcare tech.
My night job, weekend job is I work with uh with resume productions, which is I think the premier beer event production company in the southeast we do uh you know, going to brag on us, but I think we do some really great festivals, you know like the winter warmer east Nashville beer fest, you know, uh rest in peace. The Shelton Brothers festival. Um we run, we want run some good events and uh it's a lot of fun doing that.
It is really wild that, you know, the number of, you know, events that you know, our cast members go to.
Um and yet we have this very uh interesting connection with somebody that, that that's what they do, you know, are are run these festivals and you can definitely see a market difference between, you know, some people that are doing this, you know really, really well and some people that are, you know, kind of missing the mark, you know, and some various places, you know, kind of along the way.
So yeah, there's a lot of people just, there's a lot of fast these days and it's really easy to throw a fast, it's really difficult to throw a great fest. Alright, so we have a chat about the beer we're enjoying here. So this beer is from clown shoes, which is millionaire and this was finished off in a cognac barrel. I'm liking it. Uh to be honest, I've not been a fan of clowns. A lot of clown shoes beers. I've just, I've had a lot of bad beers from them over the years.
Um that just, you know, be bombers, big bombers and just interesting stuff and you pick it up going, I wonder if there's any good this one is so if you want to know where this clip came from, This is why this exists band once again, because after we had clown shoes on this was like episode maybe like maybe 12 or something like that. We talked about clown shoes and I just hated it. I was paying every beer. They just sucks so bad.
I mean, it wasn't like one beer, it was like one beer after the other and I just was not enjoying any of them. And um, I think john and jim were both on that episode and wow man, I got this like nasty gram from them, you know, uh two or three weeks after our broadcast. And not only did they did they not like what I said, but they actually enlisted the town council to ban us from ever coming into, you know, the town where clowns uses that.
And so that was where that sound clip finally came around and like, oh cool, we've been banned from some part of the planet. Like, you know, that's, that's an okay thing to be banned from. Like I said, I've not had a great experience with their beers over the years. I know it's uh, it has been kind of a mixed, mixed result, you know, component, you know, given credit and this one is a decent beer. I'm, I'm kind of digging it.
What's funny is that all the massachusetts, you know, beer that I've had this massachusetts, right? I think it is. I'm not even sure if switch. I'm sorry. It's a iPSwich, I'm pretty sure, Let me, let me look here at the label real quick. If I can figure out where it's from. Um, I'm pretty sure it's uh, Ipswich is where this is. Yeah. So, um, Yeah, they totally said, I'm sorry, but you're not welcome here. So yeah, every time. Yeah, you hear that sound clip, that's, that's where that originated.
I'm happy to say that were banned and not only just, you know, Ipswich but were were banned in like, you know, 28 municipalities, you know, three countries. Canadians still just are on the fence about it. Also, you know, that's the way it goes, you know, for us for sure. I love your blog. And so tell us all about beer. Makes three. Yeah. So June and I started beer makes three in 2012. I'll got to admit it's not as active in the last few years as it used to be.
I think a lot of blogs go that way, but we still published a few posts a year. Um, we started out because we both love beer. We like you know, learning about beer and, and kind of teaching other people about beer. So we just wanted to share our knowledge over the years. It's turned more into maybe a travel beer blog. Most of the posts we do are about places we go to drink beer and some of that has come over to the show.
I mean, you guys have done a couple of episodes together, not nearly as many as I wish the two of you would do together. She's been on a few times but it's been fun. So we recently took a beer trip to Salt Lake City, got an article about that. It's a great beer town if you haven't gone. But yeah, we've traveled all over the country drinking beer and we try to write about that working on one right now from our trip to Austin, we actually hit Austin shiner and san marcos.
Austin was a little weird. Weird. Not that was weird, No not too weird, not Portland's weird. I mean I guess Austin thinks they're weird, they're not Portland's weird. No, I think Portland's strange and Austin's weird, I think that's how it works, Is that right? But I loved Austin but it was a good trip. But yeah, so we liked uh drinking beer all over. Well I really loved those shows that we did about Oregon. Um So we did actually several shows covering things in Oregon.
Um We did one was you know the trip that you and joon took, which was actually traveling, you did this Giant circle and uh what was interesting is I think you were actually there on the day that uh elation sold out or you were like within like a couple of weeks or something when they when they moved to Inbev I yeah, I think we might have been up in Spokane about when that happened because we were getting,
we got up to Spokane and uh wash through the Washington area in Oregon quite a bit because she used to have family up there. Um but uh you know the other episode that you and I did was actually we did a show for the Portland Visitor Bureau and I really loved that episode. We had a great, that was great. We talked about such a broad range of things.
I mean I love that town um and it's definitely one of, you know the parts of the country, a lot of people ask me, you know, my favorite parts of the planet and I mean I love, you know uh walking, you know, or I should say driving up and down waterfall alley and you know, I mean it's, it's just really the Pontiac dam was gorgeous. The pacific northwest is gorgeous and and I'm falling in love with the mountain west to at this point I've spent a lot of time in Utah over the last few years.
Utah colorado, you know, down through new Mexico. It's a great area. You don't have good hot chicken out there, What are you gonna do with that? No hot chicken. I've had hot chicken in other cities and it's usually disappointed. Are you packing coupes like me know, I'm packing coops, I don't mind to tell people that I have to go plan, you know, always, You know, four hot chicken. Alright, so You've taken the certification process to a new level of crazy.
Alright, so um you're one of a handful of people on the planet to become a master system, not a master. So in advance that they actually were able to mint a few more in 20, there's about 140 of us. 940 advances. Yeah, so that's been a lot of fun. I've loved the process because I love learning about beer. And so it was a great way. I'm also a BJ CP judge.
So when I learned about beer, I want to really make sure I know it and the reason I went through the certification was trying to kind of give me a sanity check. You know, if I, I can say I know about beer but you know, if I don't prove it to anybody, do I really know anything. So that's just the way my mind works. Yeah. And I really loved, you know, I actually dropped by when you're in the middle of pounding down like, you know, 30 pills nurse the difference. So you were just like, so into it.
You know that day I was like, kidney, what are you doing? You're like, I'm studying, I'm like, got a lot of beer there on the table, man, you know, a lot of blind tasting. It's a great way to learn about beer. And you actually tattooed fermentation uh right there I did. It's right there, the formulas on my arm, we'll be right back in one minute, hey, welcome back to step Sons and smokes this good old boy mike.
And on today's chat episode I'm chatting with good old boy Kendall, it's a lot of fun doing this. So how long did the tattoo take? I want to know, I've never asked you the mechanics of it.
Uh the tattoo took maybe a half an hour because it's just it's simple black line, I mean it's just black ink and when they don't have to do shading or colors, it's really fast, like two hours, I had it done by a great tattoo artist, her name is english, she works up in inglewood um and it um forget the name of the tattoo shop, but she did a great job, so about a half an hour so I can explain it, it's the chemistry equation of fermentation, so C. Six H. 12 06 turns into two C. Two H.
60 plus two C. 02. So that's fermentation, you take sugar and it turns into alcohol and C. 02. But I wanted a beer tattoo but I didn't want like a, you know a ridiculous, you know, glass of beer on my are more logo. Well yeah that too, but but I really wanted something obscure and nerdy, so I I got that one. So um but it was when I was studying for cicerone exam is when I came across the formula and it's like that make a great tattoo, so a piece of history, you don't know about me.
So actually that was the path that I was on was um I actually was in chemical engineering very early on, that was split right in between going into Computer engineering and chemical engineering.
I made a lot better grades in chemical engineering that I did and a lot of the technology classes um, just because, you know, I mean, you were studying a lot of things that were like, you know, almost 10 years old by the time, you know, from the technical side and you know, I mean, chemistry has, you know, been around, you know, for a long time and uh yeah, everybody was betting on me to go the route of chemical engineer. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, defied everybody. So there you go.
I don't know what to tell you, you know about that, it's just right, right turn, you know, right, left and you know. Yeah, so that's kind of how it goes. So I love this. So this shared experience you and I have, it's really funny because I think the only judging experience, you and I have done was the the can thing. Yeah, yeah, the, I think that was the only one that you and I did together, is that right? I think so.
Have you judged, did you do some pre judging at the Nashville or the national homework competition.
I I did I did do uh some of those with our um and I did some of the Clarksville events um as well, but I don't think I actually was there like on the same days with so, but it's interesting because I actually, I don't I don't homebrew on the regular, I have, you know, brood, you know, a lot of beer, but I don't have my regular rig, you know, that I I actually just, you know, borrow reverend marks, you know, use, you know, his his rig for anything that I'm doing.
Um But it's very interesting when especially as to sit with a friend or more importantly a cast member like you, I mean when when you're looking at a judging seat, I mean, do you approach it from the bottom up or the top down? Um Top down? Yeah, so you're thinking that every beer is worthy and you're just looking for flaws within it. Is that I don't mean to paraphrase.
Yeah, I mean, and well, where I started, I'm very subjective, it's just like I'm gonna tell you what I'm experiencing, what I'm feeling, what I'm tasting what I'm seeing and that that has no bearing necessarily on the quality or the goodness of the beer and this is just what I'm experiencing then I kind of compare that with the the guidelines, the checklist and that's where you come up with your score.
So there's a subjective side, there's an objective side And you know, all judges are different. But the more you judge, you kind of get into that rhythm of kind of knowing where a beer is.
Like, you know, I can taste the beer and say, you know, this is a 20, this is a 30 and this is a 40 on a scale of 50 because it's it's either okay beer, a good beer or a great beer and you take almost on first taste, you know that, and then you start kind of dissecting it and coming up with the reason why you're pinning it a certain score on it. So it's a lot of fun and I love that process.
You know, it's, it's very, you know, you've got the basic categories of appearance, aroma, mouth feel flavor and overall and it's very, and it's not that different from the same process, that deductive tasting process of what is its site knows flavor that they use. Um you know, it's just what do you see, what do you smell? What do you taste well?
And I love how the all that kind of bleeds over to the show because we have a lot of, you know, BJ CP, you know, judges, you know, sitting there are a lot of the beer shows and yet what I love is that we don't all approach it the same way, you know, because I'm a bottom up guy. I mean, I'm like, you all suck, you're not worthy proved me.
You know, otherwise I was actually thinking of a of a beer that I judged uh quite a long time ago from jerry, I don't mind to mention his name, who made a jalapeno, blackberry uh milk stout and uh yeah, to, you know, actually pour that right into a glass, you know? Yeah, that could go one of two ways, I guess which way it was, you know, You know, I never thought that somebody would actually go in the negative direction from you're not worthy to, oh my God, this sucks.
You know, you should stop making beer, you know? But yeah, it really did, you know, get pretty, pretty bad, you know, for sure. So I really love the methodical way that you you break down, you know, beer and your tasting notes and so which, you know, we're all sitting there at the table. But I'd love the fact that we we don't have a groupthink process.
You know, I love the fact that, You know, when we're sitting there and we're tasting, you know, like eight beers, I mean, I I can't begin to tell you how many beers you and I have set, you know, four ft across from each other and you would think that we were on opposite ends of the planet, you know, from each other. You know about what we're tasting all the time. Yeah, completely opposite.
Yeah. But and then there's other times were like spot on, We absolutely agree, you know, so and I don't think that either one of us have the goal to either be right or correct or to be, you know, I want to say the same thing that you do, I love thee just how um honest and and independently you know that that you and I have so much space you know, for each other that there is no way that I would say, I just don't believe what Kendall's taste,
you know um or his pallets off everybody's palate is different, we all have different experiences and we have different preferences so you know, no two people are going to agree on a beer and that's the hard part when you're an official judging session is you know coming to an agreement because 22 people judge every home brew in a competition. So there is some now it's not just one person's opinion and you try to get into a ballpark range.
Well in that I like that negotiation process that you tend to go at the end after you've gone through the score sheet, you're actually consolidating you know with each other, you're kind of like where can we arrive at, you know, a common thing and and there is a collaboration and give and take that you're doing with the other person and I actually like that as an enriching process and I mean we judge a lot of other things, you know, outside of beer and that's one component that I actually miss,
you know, because everybody has blind spots too. So judging with somebody else sometimes helps you see something you totally missed. I'm always perfect until somebody says that I've done something wrong and then, well that's usually julianna. But you know, you know, that usually arrive at the same point where I probably should have been all along. So, but you know, I love the fact that, you know. All right, so, uh, one quick question before we close that.
So, who's your favorite person in the craft beer scene? Oh, that's an easy one. Are you gonna say kenan Christon? No, can it be in my top five? You know, along with Garrett Oliver and sam Calagione and some cool people I've met and it's not like I'm just throwing out names, I've met these people I met, I drank beer with these two people that know us drink beer with Garrett Oliver once at like one am in a bar in Indy, it was wonderful.
He just regaled us with story after story, you know, ken Grossman, you know, holding up a, you know, a whole bunch of hops going mike Kendall, What do you think of this? You know towards Sierra was special, but my first uh, the person I love in this industry more than all is Julia hers. Oh yeah, she's special and she just got a new job. I'm so excited for her. Yeah, she is the new executive director for the american Home Bar Association. I love that.
She is absolutely one of our favorite people on the planet. She's a firecracker. She loves craft beer. She was at the brewers Association I think every beer lover in the country. Um I was bummed when they heard she got laid off as the craft beer director from the association because the Brewers Association had a rough 2020 and they had to let go a lot of wonderful people, many of them friends of mine. Um and and I knew Julia was going to be great.
I never would have thought she would go back and run the H A. But I'm really as a home brewer, I'm very excited. I'm a member of that organization. I'm glad she's going to be at the top because she has more passion for craft beer than about anybody I know. Alright, so I am a huge fan of the late James Lipton from the actor's studio and I always wish that I could have answered these clothes out questions and I love going through these.
But now it's it's your turn to go through your nervous about this. Yeah, that's what I love about this. Alright. So don't overthink it. All right. So what's your favorite word, beer. What's your least favorite word? Last call? Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. I'm not quick on my feet like this? I'm just helping you don't Seriously, What's your least favorite word? I don't know. I don't know if I've got one to pick for you. It would be no, no, just no just the word.
No. So let's see what turns you on And my beautiful wife, wow. Let's see uh what turns you off bad aromas man. We've only been around some places where that is. Yeah, it's like seriously? Whatever was in that keg just right like that needs that didn't need to be dumped. That need to be evacuated. So yeah, let's see what sound or noise. Do you love that papa ceo to when you open a beer? Oh wow, interesting, yep. Yeah I agree. That is a good sound. So what sound or noise do you hate the gurgling?
You hear when you kick the keg? Oh wow. I don't have that noise loaded but I know how that goes. You're like, oh man this is about to end, you know for sure. Alright, What's your favorite curse word? Can I say that? Yeah. You can look now. Why is the f word so popular with like 90% of the people? It's just got a great, is this an adverb? It's a noun. It's an adjective and it just, it just comes out. I completely agree. Could get us banned from, you know like 300 radio NPR Right?
Yeah. In the FCC in case we don't bleep that out. So what profession other than the your own would you like to attempt a pilot? Really, wow. I love airplanes. I like flying. Huh? So uh you know I worked for american for two years. I don't know if you knew that. Yes, I know how to run airlines. So that's where I made my that's where I made and lost my first million um was airline operations.
And uh So literally like probably 20 of the world's largest airlines running the same operating model that I was in a small people, 20 people that helped develop back in the mid 80s. So literally I mean you name an airline, I'll go yep they use it, yep, they use it. And uh so yeah that was and so one of the things we had to do was we had to uh we had to cross train between union people and non union. So I was management and so you had to train into a union job.
Um So that in case they were, you know, we're on strike, you could still run the airline and you had a lot of choices back then you could learn how to be a flight attendant or you know, you could run some other parts of the airline baggage, you know. Um But so much of my time is actually spent with people in equipment, dispatch, aircraft equipment. So I became a flight dispatch. Oh wow.
So I went through the whole process of learning how to, you know, do flight dispatch and getting certified, you know with the F. A. A. And taking the taking the exams and all that jazz, you know, Yeah, I know more about waypoints than you ever want to know. But one of the cool things we've got to do is uh we actually got to hop into the flight simulators because it's all part of the same, you know, building.
And so um that's where they did flight simulators and um they did all of the flight attendant training for evacuation and over water landing, you know, certification and everything else. But yeah, the the flight simulators were totally cool. So it's not unusual for me to actually get like, you know, two hours of flight simulator time, you know, in Pretty much any modern, you know, aircraft. Yeah, so I have to say probably my favorite uh aircraft at that time was the 757.
And uh that was like one of the first, you know, glass cockpits, you know, kind of thing. And uh you, it was just, it was a really cool aircraft, um where you had a combination of fly by wire, you know, components as well as, you know, full glass cockpit, you know, that you actually got to go through and yeah, actually there was a lot of people that are encouraging me and, you know, to go all the way through flight school and stuff.
And and yet at the end of the day, where did I wind up making beer podcast. Yeah. And and going to law school. So there he goes, yeah, that, that dream got crushed, you know, behind a few beers. So yeah, but really, you know, an airline. Yeah, that'd be fun. Yeah, but we're almost out of time, right? Yeah, we're getting there, you know. So, uh there's one question you didn't ask me, which was, what's my favorite beer? What is your favorite beer? I've got a great answer for this Orval. Orval.
Really wow, because if you know, Orval Belgian pale ale with Brett Britannia mice is the beer ages and it doesn't matter if I can only have one beer to drink the rest of my life. It's worth all because a fresh Orval tastes different than a three year old of all, tastes different than a five year old of all. And so no matter which order while I'm drinking, I'm always getting a different beer and resting sort of all day takes a whole new context. Absolutely love or of all day.
It is, it is really a fantastic beer. We look forward to having Orval with you soon. Well, it's really super great stuff that's gonna wrap it up for today's chat episode. Take it away in the post roll there. Drew, we hope you enjoyed this episode.
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Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This has been a one tan hand production of sips suds and smokes, a program devoted to the appreciation of some of the finer slices of life from the dude in the basement studios. Your host,