Attention campers, slap that bass

Saught to you almost live from the, uh, dude in the basement studios. Why? Because that's where the good stuff fizz. It sits. Suds and smokes with your smoke. And host, the good old boy. Get ready to learn everything you ever wanted to know and a whole lot that you didn't. It's time for a chats episode. Hi. Welcome to the Chats episode with Sips and smokes. And I'm your host, good old boy Barger. And with me today is Jeremy from Wildfire Cigars. Say hi. How's it going?

Right now we're going to do what I like to call a blind tasting. And if you've ever listened to any of our episodes, we like blind tastings. So what I want to do with our chats is kind of fly by the seat of our pants, and let's just see what happens. We're going to have a conversation about life, love, and the pursuit of cigars. So I hope you enjoy it. Nice. All right, so I'm not going to tell you what we got. Uh, we're going to just cut in light and see what happens. I'm into this.

Yeah. Uh, baby freshly sharpened cutter from XII knives. Great knives. If you ever have a chance to get one, get one. So I like to think about what makes people tick. So you are a man of many talents. Something like that, yeah, um, m of many things. Many things is questionable, but I'll take it subjective, right? Yeah. So what makes you tick? I guess it depends on the time of the day, but, uh, no, honestly, um. Honestly, music.

Yeah. Is not how I make a living, but just listening to it, playing it, watching it, absorbing it, it is definitely what makes me tick. All right, so top five albums to be on a desert island with. Okay, now, can these albums be, like, a best of okay? Because then you get, like, particular hits? I mean, there might be. All right, I'd probably go with Best of Mountain. Okay. Uh, for sure. I'd probably have Pearl, uh, jam. Ten. Really great album, but not the band I would have chose.

Uh. Um, probably go with this is going to change five minutes from now when I realize all the things I hadn't thought of. But, uh, you can just shout them out at any Moment. Yeah, probably, um, quicksand slip. That's a good album. Um, maybe I might do, like best of Hank Williams Junior. Senior. Senior. Okay. Got to distinguish that. Yeah, well, for sure. And they're both good, but they're totally different. You're right. I got a funny story about Hank Williams, by the way, but let's hear it.

Because you got one album left now. Yeah. And it gives me time to kind of think of it. Um, when, uh, my family, primarily from Montgomery, Alabama, and my, uh, Papa, he was a, uh, wood carver. Okay. He worked as an electrician for refrigerators by his trade, sure. But he was really into whittling and carving. And, uh, so one of the times I was down there, I was like, oh, I'm going to go to the Hank Williams Museum. I'm like, you want to go with me? And he was like,

nah. And he's like, hey, when you're there, see if Kalija's still out front. And I was like, all right, why? And he's like, because I carved it. Wouldn't Indian? Yeah. No. So I pull up, and sure enough, there's a collage is still there, and it's signed by Eugene McDonald, like, carved into it. But every artist known to man has signed it over the years, really, from, like, to, you know, Waylon Jennings to Willie Nelson, like Johnny

Cash. They've all signed this thing. And I was like, this is a moment of music history I'm a part of. Yeah. Did you sign it? No. And I told them, I'm like, this is my grandpa that made this. And they were like, all right, it's $7 to get in. They gave no fucks. Don't you love that? I'm like, this is part of my family's history here. Uh, I'd have hooked a chain to it and took it out. Be like, if you don't like it, fuck it.

I'm telling you, there's a day and a time that that collage is going to disappear and end in my house. I don't know how or when yet, but there will be a day that I will obtain that. I do notice you got a 68 shirt on. Yeah. Josh is a killer dude, man. I met him when he was playing with ludicrous years ago. He'd come up to a town in Kentucky where I was, and we opened. Up for him, which then they became Norma Jean.

Yeah, then it was Norma Jean. I'll actually be seeing them this weekend at Furnace, um, festus. This weekend. I will be seeing you there. Really? I didn't know. Yes. I run the gates. Oh, yeah. I've run them every year. That's awesome. Yeah, I'm the guy with a bullhorn out there yelling at people. That's awesome. We'll have some cigars while we're there.

Uh, yeah, I, uh, recently went and saw them open for Sparta because Sparta was doing the reunion tour of, like, I forget the album, but honestly, they showed him up so bad. It was sad because everyone was a performer, man. They annihilated. Ah, it was so powerful and so big and so fun. And then Sparta came on and they were like, see you later, tired. And their voices weren't there. And it's like all these memorable songs, but it was just like, oh, man, you just got shown up.

So Josh and the other guys in 68 are such performers, man. Even back when he had the chariot, which is, if you've never seen the chariot, then I'm sorry, that's history. It's gone. Came and went. But, jeez, man, if you had an opportunity to. Did you ever see him in the chariot? No. I knew that, uh, where he came. From, but I've seen dude hanging off rafters, playing. I've seen him jumping off stage, diving, playing. Those dudes have done everything, man.

It is crazy. But they're phenomenal musicians. So, album number five. Um. This is tough. I'm going to have to. All right, I'll ask you after this next question, then. Yeah, hold on to that one. Why did you get into cigars? So when I was growing up, um, every holiday, my two uncles would sit out on the porch and they would share a cigar with each other. Like, one cigar between the both of them. Like two bros, one stick, right?

Essentially. No, they would each be having one. And I just remember being a kid, and no one in my family smokes. It's like faux paw. And I'd see them and I'd be like, man, that's what men do, right? I just had this, like, this is what I want to do. And occasionally I would get a little puff off of it, but they'd be like, don't tell your ma. Right? So when I was ten, one of my uncles passed, and then that tradition

kind of stopped. So I had always told myself, like, when I get old enough to smoke cigars, I'm going to bring them to the holidays, and me and my other uncle are going to sit there and we're going to smoke it. It was from ten. So eight years after my uncle had passed, I, uh, showed up with a cigar, and I just knew I was going to love them instinctively. Yeah. And so I had already, on my 18th birthday, I went to 711 because I didn't know about proper cigar stores.

Sure. So I got some Garcia Vegas and a snapple and sat in my parents backyard and thought I was the shit. I, uh, was living 10ft tall. Hell, yeah, but I loved it. The experience, the feel of it. And then it was shortly after that I found out about cigar culture, culture and shops. And I started going in and uh, I would go into a shop and I kind of found my primary shop I went to and then I was like, I really like this, wonder if I can. I

was looking for a second job. So I asked them, um, and they were like, we don't need any help. But about a year later they said, hey, are you still interested? And I was like yeah, what do you want me to do? Sweep, clean, whatever. Absolutely. And they were like oh, well, we're heading at that point, it was the RTDA and they're like someone to cover the shop. Uh, so I took vacation from my job and then worked. Mhm. For a week and a half and then I never left. There you go.

I worked there part time, but then part time turned into full time and then full time turned into ordering and I was there for just shy, uh, of twelve years. And then in that process I was both feet in and I was like, I want to get on the other side of this. So I started repping for companies and I'm out of California so I'd have like the West Coast. Did you rep for so Christian row? When he started Cle,

that was my first gig. And then during that time with him, I met Robert Caldwell who had the brand. Yeah. And he and I hit it off just on a friend level and kind of cigar nerd. And so when he broke off, he split and then he was like, I'm going to start Caldwell cigars. And he's like, you want to come with me? And I was like, yes, I do. Yeah. Funny story is Caldwell, Robert Caldwell was supposed to be our first chats episode.

Oh, I'm so glad I beat him to it just so I can be like, I did it before you. He was, I was trying to get him in person, but it's going to end up being a Zoom because he's living overseas now at the moment, so. He'S trying to Spain more. Yeah, trying to get that dual citizenship action going. So yeah, I worked with him for eight and a half years and then uh, I was the national sales manager and a partner in the brand and then

I just hit the end of my road with that. Like I was getting poached from other companies to do the same thing for them and I was like, I just don't want to do this in this manner. Right. I'd rather do this for. We. I felt like we at Caldwell had done everything we set out to do. Hm. So it was like, well, where now. Now we're just a company that's just existing. Because all those goals and those things we wanted to achieve, we did, right? So I was like, I want

to break off and do my own. And, uh, he was the first person I called to talk to him about it, and he was like, go for it. It's your time. That's awesome. That's awesome. I love the encouragement where you're working and literally making other people's m money for them. And if they're like, dude, I believe in you. You are, uh, a solid dude. Like, go do this.

That's props to Robert, man. That's huge, because especially if you're losing your best know, there's hundreds of different people lined up behind all of us to do our know. Well, that's kind of dwindling, but yeah. No, for know, I live in California, so you can't really uphold and, but, like, we had agreements, and they were like, don't worry about it. And you'll still, uh, like, with your partnership equity in, like, they were

like, it's your turn, so go do it. And it's funny, at the first trade show I was at, everyone was trying to find the dirt. Like, what happened between you and Rob? And I would be like, you wouldn't believe it, man. It was so fucking dirty. I went to him and I said, hey, Rob, I want to do my own cigar. And he said, go for, like, people were just, no, no. What's the real story? When you don't burn bridges and you have healthy relationships,

maybe shit can come and bite you. Uh, because things are unpredictable, but for the most part, people are going to be encouraging to your endeavors and what you want to do. That's what I've kind of found out about the cigar industry. And, um, I've worked in retail, in a cigar shop in Franklin for a year or so, and then I kind of got away from the life. But then I came know with this show, sip sudden smokes. I've always been a consumer, and I've kept notes and kept

things for cigars. I did a little bit of writing for Cigar Press. Thor is a great dude, and I actually run into him again, and I'll probably end up writing for him some more. So it's so encouraging how the ebbs and flows of this. It's like when you meet these people and you become friends with these people, it's like they don't forget you. It's hey, we're here. And everyone seems to be encouraging, and it's like a lot of the larger people that just soak up

all the brands. Those are where it's easy to get lost at. Sure. But, man, these brick and mortar. Mom, um, and pop, the people that work with the people in the fields and in the rolling facilities and all those, it's just like, I was just watching a documentary the other day with Benjamin. Um, I can't think of it for the life of me, but it was about Cuba and how all the. When the people left Cuba and went to the Dr. And went to Nicaragua and all that. Have you seen that's on YouTube? No.

I'll find it and send you a link to it. But it's unreal. Like, all of the different manufacturers is like, yeah, we left there. We left there, and Cubans were out to kill us. Like, at one point, Pedrone, I don't know if you know anything about their history, but all their rolling facilities got bombed. Yeah. I mean, I know that they

amongst a few other. Some intentionally and some because of unrest politically with Hoya and things like that, but, yeah, where factories were burned down and they had to continually start from scratch. Yeah, that's just crazy, man. I had no idea of that side. And diving deeper into my passions, it's like unveiling all these fully rounded aspects of life and culture, and it's just like trying to engorge and engross yourself in them is like mind blowing.

So what was the first cigar you released or that you blended helped blend. So the first cigar, um, was a cigar that has not seen the light of day. So when I was, uh, working with Caldwell and I'd go down to the factory, I started messing around under the guidance, like, with Henderson, Ventura, and we were going to make a cigar that was going to be kind of an event only because I was doing much more of the events and out front than Rob was in the latter part of my

time with him. So I was like, let's make, uh, an event. Only cigar that I can bring, and it'll help incentivize sales and stuff like that. So we had worked on a blend, but we never pulled the trigger on it. So when I launched. Was developing. I launched with the single. Mhm. The single was originally the blend that we had worked on, but Henderson didn't have notes on it, and I didn't have notes on it. I only had a few cigars left.

Right. So I had gone to another factory, and I'll leave the factory unnamed because I didn't end up. And so I sent them the cigars, and then they kind of deconstructed it to figure out the blends. Mhm. And that was going to be the single. The problem was, during COVID everything just went to a halt because getting any kind of raw materials was impossible. And cigars sales went through the roof. Right. So at first it was, we're pushing you back three

months, then it turned to six months, then it turned to nine months. And I was like, I can't launch this cigar. So I'm like, I'd like the blend back. And they were like, well, since we modified it, it's technically our blend now. And so I was like, okay, fuck you. So then I had already set up the revivalist, um, with Hoya because they were going to be my primary factory, but I was going to use different factories for Les. Right. That was kind of been my mindset the whole

time. Go to different countries of origin and work with different tobaccos. And those can be the le things. But, um, we ended up developing the single actually very quickly because we had already had a timeline and date of launch. So it was like pressure cooker time. So under their guidance, they helped get the single together. And it is not the same blend as the first blend that was. And that's the thing. I knew the components, but I didn't know the ratios. But that's everything.

How much of this leaf? How much? Yeah. And so it's kind of a bummer that that factory kind of did me dirty in that way. But it's like karma, man. Karma will come back. Yeah, it's like I just moved on and it's like, all right, ride it off. Yeah. Just got to press on. So the first cigar that was blended never has seen the light of day. Okay, well, what do you think about this cigar? Any thoughts of what it might be? Um, I think I might have some ideas. Okay, what are your thoughts?

Well, you already want me to name it? Oh, no, I just want to hear what do you think? I mean, there's a nice spice to it. It's familiar to me. Mhm. Um, it's got a little sweet spice. It's hitting my palate. Right. I'm enjoying it. Oh, man, I've smoked so many of these cigars, it's unreal. Um, when you're not smoking wildfire cigars, what do you smoke? Primarily? My go tos are either going to be like epernayone. Uh, I love illusion. Um, he was kind of weird at. The, uh, PCA with me, though, I.

Think he was in a bad mood. I think that just was across the board because I went to go talk to him and I've got a pretty good relationship with him and he kind of had this look like, not the time. Get the fuck out of me too. About me. So I'm just going to exit. Yeah, I kind of steered clear. I didn't want to push it. Yeah, I don't know what was going down. I'd love to get him on one of these, uh, that's my goal is to help get all these people on these chats.

I'm friends with him on Facebook. I watch a lot of his shenanigans. Yeah, pretty funny. Just his understanding of tobacco. I could dream to have that kind of knowledge and understanding of how tobacco play with each other. And, ah, just the different primings and it's like hats off to him. Yeah, he blends some fantastic cigars. Yeah. So Eperne, um, I like some of foundation stuff. I smoke a lot of Nick's stuff. Yeah, he was cool as hell at the PCA with us.

Yeah, he's a real good dude. Their new blend that they debuted that, it's not out yet, but, uh, I forget the name of it, but it's got the dude's face on it. He gave me a couple of them and I smoked them and I was like, best cigar of the show. It was so good. Um, so I really like some of his. And then I love Pedrone. Yeah, it's hard to beat a good Pedrone. Yeah. Even the 2000 3000 series is just fantastic. Yeah, I mean, they're one trick ponies, but they're delicious. Yeah, they're delicious.

I don't need everything to be like every five minutes changing on me. If it tastes damn good, just leave it. It's a butterfinger. We love butterfingers. Why do we eat butterfingers? Because you love butterfingers. Not to say that Butterfinger is not going to send us a box of butterfingers, but whatever. If they do, cool. But, uh, I'll send you some butterfingers. If they do, for sure. But there's no variance of it. It's just a freaking butterfinger and sells out everywhere, all the

time. But that's kind of how I feel about Pajrona as well. It's like, yeah, they're a one trick pony, but they are a very distinct. If you, if someone next to you lit up drone, you're like, that's a drone, isn't it? I know that smell. I know that. And the crazy thing is you always have people say like, oh, it's not what it was or refer. It's changed. Yeah. It is one of the most consistent cigars. And it's like when I want that. Hundreds of cigars have attempted to be Pedrone. Right.

And still no one has become Pedrone. And I don't just mean as far as a company, I mean the cigar itself. Yeah, no, 100%. And it's just like whatever they do, whatever voodoo is in that cigar, it always delivers. So it's like, I'm not the guy that's like, well, this is like Pedrone esque, but at half the price. I'm like, no, I just want a Pedrone if I want a. Right, right. So out of M. How do I ask this question? What do you think about when you're blending your cigars?

A, um, profile that I want to exist. It all begins with what I'm going for as the outcome. Mhm. And then it's trying to find a way in the path to get that. So what tobacco will help give this nuance? Because I'm very new to the blending realm of cigars. How long have you been blending for? Since I started this company, which was when I launched July of 21. So I mean, like the beginning of 21. Uh, and here's a perfect story. Everyone is like, I know tobacco, I know

tobacco. And everyone goes down to the factory on a tour and then they get to put together a cigar and they're always like, at the end of the factory, they give them an option of tobacco. And, uh, the funny thing is they make a cigar and they're like, this is amazing. If I could have this every day, I would. But the reality is they're giving you a very guided reference of all these tobaccos that they're giving. You are going to play well with each

other, right. So you're kind of already like, you're working off like half inspiration. Sure. You know what I mean? Because they've only selected tobaccos for you to use because they want you to have a good experience. Right. So, yeah, you might come up with a cigar that you really enjoy. My first experience doing that was on a cigar safari, uh, back in the day. Um, and I went to the Hoya factory and did that

whole thing and I had a ton of fun. But they're just proud of it because it's their own baby. Right. But it doesn't make It a pretty baby. Still an ugly. And, uh, yeah, I don't care. Janet, your baby's still ugly. Yeah. So when I went down to, um, at Hoya, it's much more guided. So they're like, okay, do you have a specific, like, what do you want for the base? And then we work off of kind of a flavor profile wheel to narrow it down to the tobaccos that'll work at

FTC in Honduras. They threw me in a room with a bunch of tobacco and said, like, come and tell us when you got something. And so I was like, okay, this is amazing. And at first, I spend the first day just getting familiarized with the tobaccos that they have. Sure. Now when you say familiarize, um, touch. Texture, smell, taste, feel just, like, individual. And then writing notes. Okay, this is a viso halapa, and this is the characteristics. And so I'm just taking all these kind of notes.

Sure. And then I was like, well, I got to put these together. I got to roll it. So then I went into the factory, and I was like, can m someone show me how to roll? And my rolling looks like a crayon. Drawing from a three year old. Just awkward big shits. Like, you haven't gone in three days. They all end up, like a 60 ring gauge. Uh, um, I was going for 48. Yeah. But at least it's like, then I can taste the tobacco and how they're interacting. And so I would write

notes and write notes. And after a couple of days in of being there from, like, sun up to sundown, they're like, you haven't really brought us anything. And they're like, I'm like, yeah, it's all been like. And so I sat with Raul, who's the master blender at FTC, and he doesn't speak English, and I don't speak good Spanish, so it was being translated to him, like, my frustration.

Sure. And so then he was like, well, pick one component that you like, and he's like, you're like a chef that's just pulling a ton of seasoning and thinking, like, throwing it into a pot. And he's like, it's not balanced. It's not working. He's like, think smaller. Chicken, pork or beef. Yeah. And then he was like, build off of that profile to enhance it. Right. So then I was like, it just clicked. Like, oh, I only need one aspect of this cigar. And then I can build, like, right.

Uh, all three leaves don't have to be wow. That one wow is going to be complemented by the other two. Yeah. So then I started making headway with it, and then, of course, when there were blends that I wanted. Then he would take and he would give it different proportions and ratios, mess with the blend so that it's a little more balanced. So when you say ratios, you mean like a little one more turn of a filler or one more, uh, cutting.

Maybe I had three quarters of a leaf, and he cut it down to a quarter. And it's very much like when you add something, it subtracts something. Oh, absolutely. So it doesn't just keep adding to the. So it's like, if you put more of this, you're losing something else. What are you sacrificing? It's not simple math. And when I was at Hoya, uh, they were like, you want to make a cigar that's balanced and hits all the different parts of your palate, the salt,

all these different aspects. And I was like, but what if you don't. What if you just want to make something that is like, I don't think of Pedrone as being balanced. I think of it as one thing that they have nailed. Right? And I'm like, so you don't have to go that direction. And he was like, well, no, certainly you can do whatever you want. You can age it. You can do whatever you want. Put it in a damn pickle jar.

Right? So it's been a learning, and I would say it's like I'm just like a toddler learning, uh, to walk, but it's such a fun process. And one of the things I had no idea about was I, uh, put together a blend, and then it's what became the intro. Sure. It's a great cigar. Really happy with it. Thank you. And he came back, and he was like, this wrapper, um, that you want to use doesn't work.

And I was like, well, what do you mean? And he's like, aesthetically, it's too thin of a Connecticut shade that you're using. And he's like, you can see all the veins pushing through of the corojo. And he was like, it's very was. And I had never thought about the aesthetic aspect. That's interesting. So he ended up changing. We were using Ecuadorian Connecticut, but he changed the priming and tried to source

a different Connecticut. Connecticut. Because he was like, you need something with a little thicker. Because he's like, you don't want it lumpy and bumpy. And I was like, you're right. You went with a broadleaf, didn't you? There is broadleaf in it. In the, um. Was a whole. I had never even thought about that, you know what I mean? Like, that aspect of it that it's not like the flavor was right on, but it was just like, it looked like a fugly little stick.

Yeah. Sometimes those fugly sticks will get you, though. Yeah. Uh, I've noticed that I've seen a couple of companies, uh, come out with some sticks that are. I'm like, I don't really visually like this stick, but I'm going to smoke it anyway. And then I'm just like, whoa. Pedrones don't look pretty. No, they have do, because they're, like. Nice and dark chocolatey, kind of. But when you look at them, all the bumps and all the, like, they're not attractive wrappers, but

they taste phenomenal. Phenomenal. So we ended up finding a middle ground and getting still keeping the integrity of the blend. And it did soften it slightly with the wrapper we went with. Sure, it was a little more, like, poignant, but it was, like, a fair compromise, uh, to make it work. Yeah. One thing I've noticed about your cigar blends, and if I'll just be blunt, like, one thing I've noticed about your cigar is you're very consistent about how your presentation, and I assume

that that conversation stuck with you. So your presentation, you are very neatly packaged. Very neatly. Your bands are just. I, uh, love your presentation and, uh, how you present your cigars, because it's very subtle, but there is nuances to each of your bands that I think is missed on a lot of people, but it's not missed on me. And I see that, and it's just like, man, that's really cool how you go through that and even with your rappers and how your

veins and all the things blow through that. I'm not talking about your penis, but, uh, it's very visually, aesthetically pleasing, and I think that that shows through your presentation in your product. Hats off to you for that, because with a whole aspect of cigars out there, everyone's trying to get

your attention. And what I feel like you've done is I feel like you have flown under that radar to where you're getting their attention, not on purpose, that you're getting their attention, because your product speaks for itself. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I appreciate, uh, know, the branding and everything was very intentional because I had come from Caldwell, where the my is pictures of random guys faces and. All this all over the place.

But one of the things I actually didn't like about Caldwell is how it looked on the shelf, because I didn't feel like it ever looked like a cohesive brand. And it pisses me off when I see brands that don't look like a cohesive brand. And so I wanted to do something that was understated, that was kind of a classic throwback style, uh,

of boxes with the fillet day. And then I was like primary bands going across the board using all the same different colors, colors matching with the secondary band, because it's just like, I could visualize it five years down the road, what it looks like on the shelf. And I was like, that looks like a brand, right? And so I was like, I can do all my tongue in cheek and fun stuff on the marketing end, but. I want my cigars, your merch, or your hats shirts, or your workout videos.

Yeah. There's enough brands out there with skulls and crossbones. I come from the rock and rail realm, so, like, part of me was like, I wanted to incorporate that in, but I found a way to do it that I think subtly. Yeah. Is subtle. And there's a lot of little Easter eggs within if people want to pay attention to the boxes or the bands or the little comments that are like quotes that are on the bottom of the box. Absolutely.

And it's just fun details to me that if someone wants to go down a rabbit hole, there's stuff for them to that's a little deeper than what they might look at. I get that, man. And you're spot on with it and well done for sure. Thank you. So, rock and roll. Um, how long have you been playing music? My first band I joined was when I was twelve years old and I played bass in a kind of Megadeth Metallica cover band, Slept at bass, slepid bass, and I thought it was going to get me chicks.

Oh, yeah. Not a bass player. Yeah. You know what you throw a drowning bass player, his bass and his aunt. Um, so I started playing when I was twelve and then I started playing in bands that actually played out when I was 15 and then almost consecutive. I'm 44. There's been a few years here or there where things have settled down, but I mean, I remain as active as I can because it's my sanity. Yeah, we actually got to watch you at PCA, at the, uh, what was the name of that place? The Square bar.

The square bar, yeah. That place was cool. Yeah. In March we'll go back for sure. Um, but that was a fun time, man. It was a fun show. And then you had a local band open up for you as well. Yeah, two local bands that I wanted to do something that was just. I don't like, what are you doing in Vegas? If you don't want to gamble? What are you going to like? Since we're close enough, I was like,

let's book this place out. Let's put on a show. And the guys in the band, I'm like, I got an Airbnb, so you don't have to pay. Just come crash with me for the night. And so the band drove out, and we had fun. So where were the other, uh, your band? That's right. Yeah. So, uh, it was a good. I don't know. I just wanted to give something different for those that, uh. It's like you came out and the Abbey guys, and we had a fun little turnout, but so many people since were

like, well, I didn't know. And I was like, well, I was promoting it. Yeah. I'm like, sorry, you didn't know. Yeah. So the funniest thing for us when we were there was these two Chinese guys, and one was Ike and one was Harry, and they build humidors in China, and I'm supposed to be getting one. They're supposed to be sending me one, but who knows if that's going to happen or not. It's whatever. It's cool. But they are fantastic. They were. We actually got to smoke one of your unreleased

cigars. And has that been released since then? No, it should have been, but it's just gotten delayed, so. Do you have delay? It's called ammunition. Okay. With the partnership. With ammunition whiskey on it. That's right. Because they were serving the ammunition whiskey. Yeah. So ammunition whiskey, Caldwell, cigars, and myself. And so we did a project that ammunition kind of hit us up to start because they wanted to hand out, like, cigars at their events instead of swag and stuff. Um,

so we did the project together. All the materials in the cigars are all in the Dr. Right now, but the factory got hit with a run of COVID and they shut down for, like, two weeks. So we're waiting on it to get assembled and sent to us. So within the next month, it'll be on market. I look forward to that. You have to send us some for the show. We'll make that happen, because. Put some in the. Yeah, I know. Um, I'm aware. I was like, I know that cigar

unbanded. I know that cigar killer, because I smoked it at the event, and I remember little bits of it, but we were all drinking, so I don't fully remember it. And I was like, I should have grabbed a second one, but I didn't. And then you sent me one. I was like, yes. Score. That was awesome, man. I really look forward to doing our takeover episode and I hope that you're going to enjoy what we come up with for you. So it's going to be a good time for sure.

Um, what's one of your most memorable shows you've played? M um, you know, back in, in the mid 90s, like coming from Orange County, I was a part. Was the Supertones. You're playing supertones? Supertones, yeah, those supertones. My favorite. No, but I was a part of that. I skateboarded, right. So I was in the germs and black flag and I knew that World. And then I went to school with this kid named Jason Fleetwood and he was in a band called Bloodshed. And so he's like, hey, you want

to come to a hardcore show? And I was like, what's a mean welcome? And so I show up and I was just like, this is my world. And so I was not playing in a hardcore band. We did scream, but it was more of like a heavy grunge band. But because back then everybody played with everybody. And I, uh, was a part of that, like the birth of Tooth and Nail and all those, that first wave of all I got to be a part of, um, like, so my band would play, know, unashamed

and would play, uh. Uh. Did you ever meet Chad Johnson? Chad Johnson, yeah. Which one is Chad Johnson? Was the A R guy that found all these guys. Oh, no. For Tooth and Nail in solid State. He's actually a local. No, what's funny is I've been listening to this podcast on my thing about. When we. When I tell you what, next weekend, I'll introduce you to Chad Awesome. He is one of the most coolest motherfuckers you'll ever meet.

Yeah, it was funny. The band I was in at that time, the closest, uh, we had not submitted anything to Tooth and nail or anything, but we had submitted into Alarma Records. Oh, wow. And Alarma had just picked up, uh, I think flowers for June, which was kind of a post hardcore thing where Tim Mann from focused and M A girl, you had a front, she was singing. They had just signed them. And because we were more like, now you would say emo, but we didn't for sure have a term for Juliana

Theory. But in that mid ninety s, ninety four, ninety seven, before the whole thing started, like, booming, um, we had started conversations with them and then, uh, it got collapsed or bought out or something. I can't remember the history of it, but it went dead. And then, uh, I was just like, let's just keep playing shows. Who cares? So we never got picked up, but I did tour with other bands on guitar. Uh, Stairwell, I went on tour with. Played guitar

with them on tour. Um, so I had fun because they were all my friends. Yeah. Uh, we're very similar in that aspect. A lot of my friends or people that I call friends and who knows what they call me, but whatever. But I played music. I started playing when I was ten. Played. Play guitar, of course. Um, I started playing when I was ten. Started playing music in bands, playing shows at about 15. So I played in an emo band and start with a chick singer. Don't ever do that.

Uh, yeah, I also played in an emo band with a chick singer when I was in college. Started dating her. And then, uh, that whole thing, uh, I left the band. Yeah. Ah, for sure. It just did. Bad news Bears. But you're like hot girls singing about our emotions. This is going to be amazing. Well, she was engaged to the bass player, and then this whole thing, the band actually broke up. On my 18th birthday, we were a Christian emo band, and I drink, I smoke, whatever,

it doesn't matter. For my 18th birthday, we had a big party and she showed up out of the blue because she wasn't invited to the party because I didn't want her to drag it down. And then it was a whole big ordeal, and they broke up and it was like, well, fuck it, let's have a big. Was. It was, was. It was a good, like, I played a lot of. I've. I've played with Norma Jean a few times. I've played a lot of shows with plea for purging, played a lot of shows, know other bands, and just kind of.

I worked at a youth center, so we opened for a lot of other bigger. I tried to book all the shows that come through, and so I never made it, but I got to watch a lot of people make it, and it was cool. One thing for me was, I'm a worker, so I'm electrician by trade, so I've always worked. So my passion was making sure my son. I've got an 18 year old son, so when I was 21, I had my son, and that was kind of like the height of if I was going to do anything, that that would

have been the time. And I was like, I've got to make sure my son's taken care of before me. Super similar story, because the same thing. Uh uh. I just turned 21 when I had my first daughter, so. Yeah, I get that. Yeah. And it's cool though, but just to watch your brothers and your friends go on and do things in tour the world and you're like, man, hindsight, you're like, that could have been me. But it's like, why live in that area? It's like, I love seeing those dudes.

I love going. Spreading the love with those guys, man. Because that's what it's about. The music and the culture and the family. Yeah. I was raised in a Christian home. My dad was a pastor and blah, blah, blah. So I started playing music and I really got into Metallica, Megadeth, Iron Maiden early on. And I remember just like, I would sit in my room in the dark and play my guitar with not even being plugged in. So I didn't wake up my parents learning the riffs

to things. And so one of the big things I did with my bands and a lot of them didn't like it, but I was like, listen, you need to learn your instrument inherently. And so when we are rehearsing, we'll go through the set and then we're going to go through the set in the dark, like lights, uh, out. The only thing that's lit is your amps. That's it. That's all you're going to see. And learning how to tighten up. And I think that that coincides with making a good cigar as well because it's not more

about your sight visually at that point. It's not about what you see. It's about what you feel and what you hear. Ah, and textures and those things. Has anything translated from music into your blending or into your cigars? Uh, well, for sure. The main thing being like, as you saw at the trade show, the whole DyI thing, I love it. Your trailer is awesome. I refuse to pay money and do stuff for things that I can do myself. The year before I had the trailer, I had a fake fire pit and I

etsied all that shit. I just built it and my booth was built and I was getting a lot of compliments like, oh, you should win Booth of the year. And I was like, yeah. And then this, uh, year I bring the trailer. But that approach has never changed. And even me being on the road the way that I'm doing it now is no different than a, ah, band that's just trying to

make it. And they're all living in the van. I mean, I'm living in my trailer because it's like, I refuse to pay $200 for a hotel night that I'm going to spend 4 hours in. Do you remember betterthevan.com? No. So in the, uh, early 2000s, there was a website called Betterthonthevan.com, or cheaper than the van or

something like that. But it was people that were willing to host bands, and so you would sign up with them, and when you were touring through a place, you would go on there and be like, who's available? Got room? And it was like, let's just get a shower, let's freaking have a meal, let's sit down, man. Um, that's a really cool thing to do. I actually think that it would be dope next year.

If you could find a stuffed bear and make it like a picnic with the bear and your camper, that would be so freaking dope. Well, uh, yeah, I won't let it out of the bag, but I kind of know I'm going to take the same ideal and idea, but expand on it. So I have something for the PCA this year. I don't expect to know. Show the booth. No, man, it's just about having fun. So I have like, okay, this is what I'm going to change. This is what I'm going to add.

Mhm. And so I've got the booth and it excites me to think about it because it'll cost me probably, for the primary aspect of it, of the booth. Probably cost me $30. I love it, but I think it's going to be very interactive and I think people will have fun with it, and that's ultimately what I want to do. Right? Yeah. If I can help, man, let me know. I got you. All right. Uh, but, uh, I will answer. I did think of the show. Okay, let's go.

So I was playing in a band called the Mood Swingers, which was an offshoot of after Bloodshed had ended. Some members from that, uh, uh, at that point, it was kind of the first wave emo, right? And, uh, we play at this bowling alley and the band after us, we have a good response, but the band after us sets up, we're like, who are these guys? Because we were second to headline and, uh, they start playing and our mouths just drop and we're

like, who are these kids? Uh, it was at the drive in, uh, and I was like, these guys are going to be insane. Huge. We're playing in a bowling alley. Bowling alley. But he was running up and down, sliding down the lane. There was no stage. It was just awesome. Were you set up on the lanes? Yeah, set up. And it was just like, people were just going apeshit. And we're like, we had never heard of these guys. And then less than six months later, they're on the front of Rolling Stones.

That's freaking crazy. And then they just took off. But it was so cool to happenstance, get to play a show with a band that I loved so much. Well, now I love. Right. Especially at a bowling alley, of all places. Yeah. And then Mars Volta and offshoots. Phenomenal. But, like, it was just such a fun experience. And that happened a couple different times. It happened with Pedro the Lion. It happened. Oh, my God. David Bazan. Like that. We didn't know who the guys were.

Because. It was before the EP. Actually. No, the EP had come out, but I wasn't really in that world, so I hadn't heard it. Uh, and I was just like, Pedro. The Lion's David Bazan, right? Yeah. Have you seen his house shows? His solo house shows that he does. I've had friends that have gone to them. He used to do them here and he did a few. So Stump from the Abbey, we had a music venue in our church when it was in Third Avenue South. We're in Stump's church now, but it was at Third Avenue

South. And I actually moved to Nashville in 2010 to be part of that church. And he's played some shows there and it has been crazy. The house shows that he's done. Yeah. Him and Damien Gerardo have both. I was going to say that rehearsals for departure from Damien Gerardo might be my fifth. Ooh, that's a good. Just. It's nostalgic to the core, to me and every song. You want to hear mine? Yeah. All right. Absolutely. Uh, I'm all over the place musically. I'm a metalhead and I'm an EDM kid.

Okay. So I love EDM, but I love trance. Okay. Because of the female vocals and how it just flows together. Um, so my first album would be Radiohead held to the thief. It's hard to beat that album. That album is, from start to finish, freaking solid. So it's not. Okay, computer, you're not. Yeah. Okay. No, most people, when they hit Radiohead, it's like they're either. They typically go, it seems like, with OK, computer. So I like that.

Yeah, it's hell the thief, man. When you put that thing on and it starts to skip in the beginning, you're like, wait. And then the metronome kicks in and you're like, bro, let's go. I can remember one time that I like to partake in the marijuanas a little bit. And, uh, I, um, had, like, a ten year stint where I didn't do it. And, um, in the town I lived in Kentucky. I worked for a cable company at that time, and these guys, we had a freeze come through that dropped lines and shut the town down

for almost a month. And half of Western Kentucky was. And what happened was one of the crews that we had come a, uh, I'm a cool guy. I'm a networker connector. And they were like, hey, man, do you know where we can get any? And I was like, yeah, man, it's cool. I got you. So I got them and then they left. Know, uh, a, uh, joint on the back of my porch as a thank you. And I got home. I didn't even have power, but I had, like, my phone and, oh, no, my power just came back on. So I finally had

power. It was two weeks I was driving to Paris, Tennessee, to take showers at my bandmate's house because Paris, Tennessee, which was 45 minutes from Kentucky, where I lived, they had power and we didn't. And so I would drive there after working 12 hours, take a shower, and then drive back 45 minutes to go home. And then they left me that. And I put that album on and smoked that and was like, for the next however long, I was just on my couch freaking taking that album in. And I'll never

forget it. Like, every verse, lyric note, everything in that album is just stuck in my brain. So that's good. One of my albums, um, by the. Way, that is insane, bro. The Brown sugar telling you. That is insane. I think we only did, uh, 150 bottles of it. That's it. That is so fun. That is really delicious. Yeah, it's awesome. It's a great bottle. So my second album would be Zeo, mhm. Where Blood and Fire bring rest. And that was one of my first hardcore shows.

Is that the debut album or is that the second or that's the second or third album. They changed. Like, what is singer Jason in the first run up? It was Dan's first album. Okay, so with Dan and Jesse Smith on drums and then the really short guy on guitar and then the other black dude on guitar, and then I can't remember. I just don't remember most of their names. Yeah. But that album, start to finish, is so good because when it opens, it's like Blum Blonde Blum Blast. And it's just so good.

Um, for the longest time, I hated the Beatles. Um, and I think I hated them because the metalhead in me was like, ah, the Beatles are just garbage. And it wasn't until I was in my 20s, way past doing any music, that I actually gave them a chance. And I think it was when across the universe came out. Very cool. Dude, that movie is so good. Yeah. The renditions they do are sick. Phenomenal. And I remember it was the dude on the beach, the trailer on the. Beach, singing that about a girl.

Uh, uh, about a girl. And I was like, bro, you're talking to me right now. And then. So I went through and listened to a bunch of. And it's like, I take their greatest hits album with me. Sure. Because that's a good choice, dude. You can't go wrong. Like, there's every mood in there. Yeah. Um, let's see. What would number four beep? Um, do? You'd probably have to have bless the martyr, kiss the child.

I think it's a coin toss between bless the martyr, kiss the child and, um, see what's another hardcore sounds. Um, maybe the burial from plea for purging. Maybe give or take, whatever day it is. It would be a coin toss between those two. Um, and then for number five. That's a. Number. Five is a tricky one. Where's your number five? What did I go with? Oh, I did the rehearsals for departure. Okay. Yeah. My two favorite hardcore albums would be snap case steps or looking

glass self. The EP. Yeah. Uh, like a four or five song EP. Yeah. And then Firestorm from Earth Crisis. Earth Crisis. I was a huge. Come on, that's dirty heavy, like 90s. That's dude from Norma Jean now. No. Is that EsO Caris might have been Earth. Uh. I don't know. I honestly actually don't know. I'd have to look. They sounded. That's a solid album. And Threadbear, did you ever get into know, like, the evolution of hardcore and all the

different sounds that it is? And it's definitely gone much more technical and kind of metal. Um, but, man, threadbear, they have melodic bass lines and he is by far to me, the most pissed off sounding individual. I, uh, read an interview with the singer of it once and he's like, if my throat wasn't bleeding at the end of a set, I didn't do it right. Yeah, because it wasn't styled yet. Right. It was guttural. And I think that's why that realm of hardcore I love.

Even though the technicality isn't necessarily there, it's all just Chugga chugga. But it was just the angst that was. It wasn't like you could scream in a tone. Zeo kind of first started, like, I think they were on the very early end of the spectrum of showing, like, you could do different things with your voice. It was like, them and was. And now you got bands living sacrifice, like Lorna Shore that are, like, going.

But it's like, back then, it was just like, I'm pissed off, and I want you to know I'm pissed. And there was something that's what resonated with me is I was like, oh, I got some angst in me. This is a cool way. Let's go. Yeah. Um, I think that it would be a coin toss for me. On my fifth album, I would try to make a mixtape mixtape of my favorite EDM M hits, which is any

mood. Like, when I'm working, when I'm building something, I've got EDM in my ear because the ADHD that I have, um, I am hyper aware of everything in the room conversations. Like, if we go somewhere to eat later, I'm going to know four to five tables away from us what they're talking about, because that's how my brain processes

things so quickly. So the EDM turns that part of my brain off and it lets the output mode kick in, which is what I've always loved about EDM and especially trance, because it's like trance or house. Like, you hit that 120 beats per minute, you're just like, okay, now we're flowing. We're doing it. So it would either be a mixtape of that or Torch affirmation, uh, annihilation or something, whatever that album is called. I'm not sure it's the, uh, green album. Hang on. I'll tell you.

Um, now I'm going to have to show you my creative project that I've only shown to my friends. Does that mean we're friends now? I started because I felt compelled. Restarter is the name of the restarter. If you haven't listened to this album. No, I have not. Dude, so sweet. Start to finish, bro. I'm going to send it to you right now. You got Spotify, right? I do. Who doesn't, right? I mean, they need to pay their bands more.

Let's just be honest about it. But as far as ease of access, no. And for me, like, being an independent artist, right? I record the stuff. Like, we get to do it and we put it up, and it doesn't mean that anyone's listening to it. But if someone wants to it's there. And m they can be in Korea. They could be. And, uh, that's the aspect I love of it. I think something that I've noticed about independent artists lately. I'm not a huge hip hop. I love old school hip hop. Like old J Five dilated

peoples. Um, dude, Dell, the funky Homo sapien, 30 30. That would also be my number six on that album. Like that album. If you've never listened to that album pro, you're missing out. There's some stuff I'm missing out on, I'm telling you. I'll send you that album as well. Um, but start to finish, that album's like a concept. Like he's this futuristic space man and it's awesome. And so this rapper, Tom McDonald. Mhm. Is number one on Billboards at this point.

Yeah. And he is independently published and I think that's freaking awesome. Yeah. I mean, the Game is changing with first you had the dude that did the old Town road and people were getting pissed in the music industry because he won a Grammy. They were trying to prevent him from going because this doesn't count. That's so stupid. No, this guy is rising up. Tom McDonald has millions and millions of views and is charting and he

doesn't have a label. And it's just like, it's amazing that we're in a day and age where that can happen, where it's like he doesn't need the label. But see, that's the thing though. We never needed labels to begin with. We only used labels as networking and the labels did the legwork for us. Mhm. When if you just put in the work and you put a good product out, much like your cigars, it speaks for itself. And I think that's what's missing, the missing link in the music industry. Like your

album needs to speak for itself. Like your product you're pushing needs to speak for itself. If you're pushing a bad product, as long as you own it, it can be a bad product. That's fine because that's who you are. And I think that when we were talking about how that translates, how your musical background translates into your cigar aspect, I think that what's interesting the most to me is how I see that. And so I see that your love and passion for music is translated into your branding and your

marketing and you're doing it, man. And I think that that is so cool because there's all these large manufacturers and all these large brands that have had these years and years and years of failing and winning and failing and winning and failing and winning. And these massive marketing PR teams to do that for them to where you look at know, like yourself and smaller brands like even Robert Caldwell,

where it's like, we're carving this. Like, we believe in what we're doing, and to hell with you if you think that we suck because we enjoy our product, and that's all that matters. And I think that that's something that a lot of people are lacking these days, is the balls to basically be like, well, I don't care if you don't like my cigars, don't smoke them. Yeah, there's enough out there. There's plenty of cigars.

That's the one thing people forget. I think a lot of times in this industry is like, everyone has made God's gift to the world with whatever cigar they. Absolutely. The reality is people like different things. Uh, I don't want to eat the same meal every day, right? So there's different cigars for different moments, but they also take themselves just like, it's so serious, and it's like, it's rolled up leaves. I love it, but it's rolled up dead leaves. Absolutely smoking.

And it's like, if you miss the interaction that's in front of you, that was what the value of those rolled leaves were going to create, not the leaves themselves. Right. That, to me, is like, if I was to have a message, right? Or what sure is just like, it's on the band. Leaves burn stories live, right? It's as simple as that.

I love being able to meet people and then have a connection with them, find some common ground on whatever that might be, and then have a conversation beyond the cigar, because now we're having something that's real. And if you happen to like my cigars, rad if you don't, I don't like. I like mean. And hopefully enough people like them so that it can pay bills and stuff, sure.

But with all the tradition and everything that goes in our industry and legacies, it's like, uh, it's all family, and we've been doing this for 200 years, and it's like, who the fuck cares? If you're not going to sit and have a real conversation with someone, it might as well just be, like, a faceless brand. No one cares who's behind Jameson. It's just in every bar because it sells. Right? And that's fine. That works.

But when you hear all these dramatic claims of, just, like, this means so much, and my family came from this and that, and you're like, that's cool. Can you actually talk to me like a. And I'm going to talk about this person? But the Fuente family, I have a high respect for the Fuente family. They have pushed and pushed and pushed and clawed their way know Cuba to where they are now. And it's the face of it now, which is his

son. Um, we did a takeover episode with Fuente, and they sent us some sticks to go over. And it was one of my first episodes of me leading the podcast. And I was nervous about it because I care what people think, as we all do. And you just have to admit that. And then you can overcome that. You push through. So when we care what people think about us, when you acknowledge that you care what people think about you, you can tear that

wall down. And you can understand now that you are being vulnerable to these people. And I feel like when the cigar industry, what shines out the most to me is when your product produces that feeling. So what you care about is shown in your cigar manufacturing and your cigar labels and your product, uh, and your advertisements and all that. You, you know, we did the episode for Fuente Takeover, and I went down to Fort Lauderdale to the big smoke, and

I, uh, had my sip suds and smoke shirt on. And he came up to me and was like, hey, thank you so much for what you did on your podcast. And I'm like, dude, you don't know me from Adam. You don't know me. And that's cool. But you're thanking me for doing something that I wanted to do and I love to do. And that's huge, because now your product reflects your personality. And I think that, uh, there's a lot of cigar manufacturers that just throw out shit.

They're like, oh, it's the new one. It's the new one. It's the new one. And it's like, well, there's a reason Opus X's are Opus X's. Sure. You know what I mean? They're a quality cigar. And the heart behind them, you find that, you know what I mean? And it's like that in itself, um, is the full aspect of the cigar industry, to me, is the relationship. And that relationship is built around a love for people and a love for cigars.

And the cigar is where your story meets the lips and ears of another person, much like your albums. Sure. So when your album, when you pour your heart and soul into an aLbum, you're now releasing that part that you're vulnerable about to someone else, and you are subject to their ridicule and their insecurities and whatever they have. So, yeah, it may not be the bees knees for someone, it may not be the bees knees for someone, but for someone else, it may be like

the coup de gras, what you do. You know what I mean? And I think that that is, like, huge, and people miss that. Uh, I've been to quite a few of these cigar events, and a lot of it's like, well, I'll buy five sticks and get this for free, and blah, blah, blah. And I got free cigars. I'm going to smoke them all day. And it's like, well, you're missing the connection. And, uh, that's what these chats episodes, for me, is going to be. So we haven't spent a lot of time talking

about your product. And that's intentional, because I want to learn and know who you are. So when I can learn who you are, I can see yourself in your products. Sure. And I think that that is going to be a huge bridge to bring that aspect to people who don't even think about that. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, totally. And there's something like, um, I'm 23 years in this industry, and like I said, uh, from working retail to repping, and as much as I talk about kind of in some ways, trying to

be a disruptor to it, sure. There's an aspect where it's like, I'm not shitting on the tradition of this industry, because I remember a couple months ago when an unnamed fella in our industry, who's got quite a platform called out Carlito, and I was just like, you fucking numb nuts. Yeah. This is the dawn of our industry at this point, 100%. It's like, you

have zero respect. It was reminded me of, like, Carlito's way, the movie, where it's like, you're the young punk that comes in and says, I'm such a disruptor, I'm changing this game, and it's like. But you have zero respect for the foundation that was laid. Because I'm a cigar nerd. I love smoking people's cigars, because exactly what you're saying was a really, I think, eloquent way of saying it is like, I want to understand what they're trying to communicate through this cigar.

Right. Whether I like it or not is irrelevant to me, but I want to understand what are they trying to tell me? Because now it's like a manufacturer and doing, it's like I'm trying to say something. Sure. So it's like, so are they? Obviously, they are. So what are they trying to say through this product, the Fuentes? You cannot get more highly esteemed what they've accomplished in this industry. Absolutely. And even for new brands that use real tongue in cheek marketing and are like

branding. Right. And it's like, these guys have been doing it for 20 years. They just do it under the radar. It looks like this just pristine, classic thing. And then they got names that are just, like, on the BBMFs. Uh, the pink go down the list. And they've been pushing the envelope since day one. But they're also, uh, viewed as a classic brand. Right. Uh, that's something that's always like, I've never understood. It's like you walk into a room, right, and there's always some kind of

alpha dog there, right? And it's like, you can try to usurp that, all right, and take the place, but there's going to be a conflict, or you can understand your place and have respect at whatever level that is. And it's like, I'm stoked coming into this industry and now gaining the support of all these friends that it's like, technically, I'm competition, right? But it's like, at the end of the day, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, right? Absolutely. So as long as people are.

And as long as people are enjoying it, it's good, it's healthy. There's room for me to exist, right. We're not in competition. We're together. Right. And I think that that's, uh, an aspect that even in the spirits realm, they forget that we are together in a unified front of. We believe in the spirits, whether it's bourbon, tequila, rum, whatever it may be. This is our heritage. This is our lineage. This is what we're leaving behind.

Which brings me to another question for you, is, what do you want to achieve? I mean, if I can get this company to where it's covering my bills, taking care of my kids, and I get to do what I love, um, I'm good. Everything else is gravy. Sure. Put it that way. As long as it's sustainable. And in the process, I've been able to experience, especially on this trip I'm on, get to have real authentic, uh, interactions

with people. I don't know. I don't know if it's because my age or where I'm at in my life, gone through two divorces, all this. It's like all I want to have is real connections with people. Yeah. I've been through one divorce and I get it, brother. Yeah. And that's my focus. If I can be a good dad and I can build something and I can show my kids that you can do something if you want to do

it. It may be a weird industry, it may be a weird niche thing, but it's like, I did go to college, but I dropped out. Yeah, me too. Right? Because I was just like, I learned everything the hard way anyways, so let's just drop this and just get to work. We're not so different, you and I. I love it. That's all I want. I don't need the house on the hill, the white picket fence. Ah. It's like I got two daughters that are rad. As long as I can help them in their, uh, endeavor

to find themselves, sure. And what they want to do and be a support to them. And it pays my bills. How old are your kids? I have a 20 year old that turns 21 next month. And then I got a ten year old. You got a special bottle lined up for that one? I already broke into the bourbon. I did the whole. Was amazing. One night we sat down together and I was like, so I'm going to teach you how to appreciate Scotch, because if you go into a bar and you want to find a quality man, okay, you're going

to order this? You're not going to order some foo foo bullshit. Uh huh. And she was like, oh, I hate this. And I was like, you don't understand because if you find someone that's going to appreciate and be like this with. You, talk to you about it, right? Instead of just buy it for. You, this is how you find a man. In my own Psychology, this is what I've come to. I already went through different scotches and, uh, different rums, just trying to, like. So there's not really anything, uh, I've.

Been training my son to appreciate. Yeah, I'm like, these are good cigars. Like, I give him whole, like, two boxes of shit cigars. And I was like, here, smoke these whenever you want. Like, whatever. When you want to have a cigar and a conversation, you come talk to me. We're going to have a good cigar and we're going to have a conversation. Like, I've got an aging box. So that aging box has two of my favorite sticks from the last 15 years of me smoking cigars. Like, I've been putting two

each in my box. And so it's like, when you're ready to actually engage me in these conversations, we're going to pull from this box. Yeah. And you're going to have an experience now that something's got some age on it. You respect the process. Mhm. You know what I mean? And it's not a. Well, I got these cool cigars we're going to smoke. Oh, these Cubans. Blah, blah, blah, blah. No, these are cigars that people poured their life into. Yeah. When both my daughters were born, I bought a box

of. I, uh, have a 1926 Pedrones. Love it. For my oldest. Nice. This next October. That's a 21 year old age. Um, because there's still, like, I would smoke one a year. But then I realized maybe I dipped in twice, uh, make sure that I have a couple left. So she's told me that she'll have. A cigar with me. It's not this, uh uh. She said she'll have her first cigar and it's going to be a 20 year old Pedrone. 21 year

old Pedrone. And then my youngest. It's a box of Toro that they did for the, like the TAA exclusive. Uh, that was a limited run. So I got a box of those and I'll save that for my. Yeah, I wouldn't be mad if you sent me one of them. That's a solid cigar. That's a real good. I was just like, you know, it's got to be something special, right? Right. I only get this twice. Smoke what you love. Smoke with. Yeah. So it's like, I've saved those. Her first cigar and maybe only cigar.

Because she may not like it. The funny thing is, both my daughters love the smell. Like, I'll get texts from my oldest daughter and she's like, just want to say hi. I smelled someone smoking a cigar, and it just made me think of you. And I'm just like, the nostalgia that it creates because it's the same thing. Like, I told you how I got into it was my uncle's. Right? It was because I saw something there and it smelled, and I knew I was going to love it before I even did it. Yeah.

I really hope that my son takes to that aspect of it, because he's all about video games at this point in his life, and his girlfriend, which is great. Uh, he's an apprentice for the company that I just left. So he's two years now into an electrical apprenticeship. And I come from a line of, like, my grandfather was a, uh, lineman, died on the job the day after my dad's 9th birthday. So I never knew my grandfather. And for that point, my father only knew him up till he was

nine. And my father is a master electrician and my older brother is an electrician at Pella Windows and he's their head of maintenance in Kentucky. And I'm an electrician down know I worked for this company and I've worked for many different companies, but I've kind of not pushed him to do that. But I want him to know if you learn something, even if you don't like it, that you can make something of it. Sure. But yeah, so, man, that's awesome that you have those boxes for your kids.

Um, I think that, ah, as a person in the industry training your child, and I'm not meaning like childism like your eight year old kid who loves blues clues. That's not what I'm talking about. When you're a young adult, 18 to 21, even though 21 is the legal age. And I'm not condoning underage, whatever, but you're the parent, you make your own damn decisions. Right. But I don't want my son to get out there in the college world and to learn these things from some jackass, you know what I

mean? I want him to have a healthy respect of spirits, alcohol, tobacco, to where he can make an informed decision. A, I'm going to indulge this and put this in my body, and B, I don't want to touch this. Right. And so, uh, good on you for having that. So when my son turned 18, I sat down with him and I poured him some. Something. I'm not going to tell you what it was. It was apple juice. Poured him something and we had a cigar. When I was growing up, 18 was the smoking age. We could smoke.

Same for me. So I don't care. The laws are stupid and we need to keep these people, the lobbyists, out of our laws. Yeah. Uh, you can go die for our country, but you can't still, if you. Can die for our country, you can drink and smoke. In my opinion, I 100% agree. Yeah. And I think that that's something that's lost on a lot of people from what they think about a whole as a world.

And I think it's crazy that we're moving from having a respect for an individual, being an adult to, well, you're not really an adult now for two or three more years. Yeah. And I think that that's silly. No, I mean, there were shop, like, I wasn't working in the shop when that happened in California, but it's like there were customers that were 18 when. The law, 24 later. Uh, they're not allowed in the shop. Yeah. And it's a part of their,

like they're just starting college. So crazy. And then all of a sudden, oh, now you're not old enough. And it's the most asinine thing in the world because it's like, wait, you can make a decision that could alter the like that will alter the rest of your life. If you went and served in the. Military, regardless, being from a shop going, you are now 18, you come into my shop and sit down with me and I educate you about cigars and you find a love for it. And you've been smoking

here all year long. And now the next year, buddy, I can't serve you, I'm sorry. Or the employee that's a college student, absolutely. That gets fired for doing nothing. But you can still sell tobacco at. 18, you just can't indulge it. You can't sell alcohol at 21 or indulge it at 21, but tobacco, you can sell it at 18. I believe the laws are Screwed, man, for sure. And we'll figure that out. Not in this podcast, but it'll all come to a head, I'm.

Sure. We're definitely in a boiling point as a society stuff is definitely. Yeah. So your legacy is important, what you want to achieve is important, and I believe in you and I believe in what you're doing. So that is what this is about. It's uh, like, yeah, we're not going to sit and talk about your product. We're going to sit and we're going to talk about you. Because what you leave behind is important, because you're making your way and you

haven't had it. I'm going to say easy, but I don't mean easy because I know that a lot of these guys who came up when their parents fled Cuba did not have it easy. It is not an easy thing, and I am not saying that at all. But to get into that industry, they didn't have certain hoops to jump through because they were born into that industry, if that makes any sense. Sure. So with respect to those people, and I fully respect those people 100%, you had it harder to carve your name out of something.

Yeah, I think that's like, in some ways, and this is not a, uh, woe is me by any stretch of the means, but anytime you enter into something where kind of like how you were sharing your family's history with being electricians, right? It gets passed down. And then there's been this almost like this is what we do and this is what we can contribute, and it doesn't mean that everyone has to follow suit to that, but the legacy, that is beautiful, but also that these guys carved the pathway for

guys like me to exist. Yeah, but my story is not. My grandfather, uh, worked on a tobacco farm, and it wasn't handed down. It's like, I came in as an outsider in a very saturated industry, and I'm trying to carve my own path, and it doesn't, like, again, this is not a complaint. It's just stating if any one of the Pedrone children. Mhm. Wanted to start a line, it's going to get notoriety.

Absolutely. Because you have so much history and heritage and legacy attached to it now the expectation is going to be through the fucking roof. Absolutely. Like, there is no expectation for me. So in some ways, it's easier. Easier because I'm coming in as a bearded, tattooed, white kid that's like, I just love tobacco. Sure. And it's like, well, what do you know about tobacco? Well, I'm learning.

And there will be a day where I hope to be as efficient and as knowledgeable and as to some of my heroes in this industry that I'll like. I mean, that would be a rad thing to be looked at as a. Like, I I don't think there would be a higher accomplishment in this industry than to be looked at as a peer by guys that I respect drastically. Like, I remember when Caldwell launched, uh, we did the first Anastasia, and it was with Ernesto

Creo. Dude, I was getting, like, starstruck when we were hanging out with Ernesto, and he's just treating me very kindly and in his quirky mannerisms and doing this, and I was just like, uh, I'm sitting with Ernesto Carrillo right now. I'm in the room with him, and we're smoking cigars, and it's just like, he had no idea the fandom that I had, but I was like, I can't show it because I'm trying to be cool, you know? But it's like, I know

who they, right. Uh, like, I remember walking through the show floor when Caldwell first started, and we had guys that were not from the industry that came aboard, like, to do our warehouse and stuff, like fulfillment and that. And they're like, oh, who is that? Like, what does he think? And I was just like, you don't know who you're looking at, dude. Right? Show some respect. Yeah, put some respect on my name.

Because for me, getting into cigars when I was 18 and then just smoking everything over the years, it's just like, you don't know who we're in the presence of. This guy invented the 60. He put 60 on the maps with the Lagloria Cubana series R. And that was a changing cigar in our game. Changed it, changed everything 100%. Now it's a common. People were like, this is a novelty. No. Now, 20 plus years later, it is, uh, an absolute staple. I don't do a 60. MAybe one day, but m, who knows?

Never say never say never. That's right. Try everything twice. I always say, even if you don't like it, try it a second time, because you might like it a second time. Yeah, I guess, uh, it's not like on an academic level, but on a personal level. Uh, I think that would be, like, for me, the coup de gras, right? If these guys were like, I've met many of these manufacturers time and time and time again over the years by doing multivendor events stuff with the brands

I've been. And it's always an introduction, like, hi, I'm such and such. And I'm like, I've met them 20 times. Ah, but I don't say that. Just like, I'm Jeremy. It's good to meet you. But how rad one day would that be if they were like, hey, Jeremy, what's up? That would be. That's cool. My, yeah, no, I'm with you. I'm with you. And that's kind of where I'm at with this whole thing, too, is like, I'm trying to carve a name for myself. And a lot of people are looking at me like, you just want some

free sticks. And I'm like, listen, I could give a shit less if you give me a stick or not. I want to learn who you are. Uh, if I get to smoke and review your product, awesome. I'm here for it. This is what I want to do, but I want to learn what makes you tick. Because at the end of the day, it's relationships that matter. So, all that being said, we're pushing the mark here, so we're going to draw this in. What do you think you're. Smoking? Well, I'm either going to look like an ass here or not.

I mean, you are going to look like an ass, so let's just throw that out there. Okay. So I feel like I'm smoking a Nicaraguan cigar. I feel like I'm smoking something I'm very familiar with that has a bear attached to it. Um, and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. So what do you think the brand. Is. This feels very similar to something I've created. Okay. The arteois. Okay. This is not your cigar. Well, then I look like an ass. It's okay. Yeah. This is what I'm accomplishing here. All

right. What you're smoking. Wait, can I have another guess? Yeah, you get one more. Okay, let's go. All right. This is a game show, bro. What do you got? No. And this shit is so much fun because I love going in blind. It's like, I could see where you get the Artawas, this spice and the notes, uh, on that dark chocolatey kind of spice to it with the sweetness. I get what you're saying. So my second guess would be it's something out of Arganosa. No, you're so wrong.

Um. Oh, then tell me, because I was going to go that direction. I was going to say something in the realm of maybe, like, the Miami or, uh. From. And before I tell you what it is, tell me your notes on it. What do you like? What do you hate? What are your tasting notes on this? I mean, there's a very light, sweet spice to it, but there's a sweetness to it that I very much enjoy and is in every one of my blends. Um, and it's got enough

body to keep it interesting. Honestly, most of the time, I haven't been focusing on it because we're having a conversation. I'm not saying that as a disclaimer. I would have actually known because I didn't know. Um, but I find it to be pleasant and enjoyable on a scale of. Three, because our rating in sips, huds and smokes here is one, two or three? One is. Get it away from me. Two is. Ah. Three is I buy a box of that. Where would you put that? Can I do halves?

Yeah. Hey, man, winning room. Because. Yeah, I would say two and a half. Like, I like this. I'm enjoying this. Yeah. Okay. It's a good cigar. And I feel like you're going to say it, and then I'm going to be like, I've smoked that, but I didn't place it. Yeah. So that is a tattoo. Hay. Fausto. Well, I'm okay with making that mistake then, for me. Yeah. Because ain't nothing wrong with anything tats ever done. That is, like, for sure is one.

Of my staples that I have smoked for years. I have smoked countless boxes of these cigars. My two favorite tats are the reserve a Kappa 7th. That's a good cigar as well. Those are my two jams, and I. Don'T even know if I can find those. The surrogate, I love the tree. I almost brought my stuff in a surrogate box. But you know what's so fun is I used to do this back when I worked in the cigar shop. I would go to people that smoked brands. They're like, we smoke this brand.

And I remember going to a guy that only smoked Davidoff. Yeah. Oh God, I love those people. Yeah. And I gave him when the Don Tumas Sungrown had come out. Okay, it's a $4 cigar. Yeah. That's a very cheap cigar, but a very decent smoke if you find them. So I gave it to him and he was like, and I was like, this is a new Davidoff. I actually kind of fucked with it. Yeah, right? And then he smoked, this is great.

Give me three boxes. And I was like, all right, cool. Go to the corner, we ring him up, put it on his tab, bring in the boxes. And he looked like the most offended. And he's like, well, my palate must have been fucked up. And it's like, dude, you can have a good $4. I mean, in that day there were absolutely a lot of four to $6 cigars that were dynamite. Absolutely. Like, my bang for the buck was how I bought cigars. Oh, dude, uh, I was a perdomo habano with the sun label on

them. Yeah, dude, I would smoke the shit out of those. The estate. Yes, that's what it was. Great. Fucking great cigar for six. Like, I'll do $6 all day long. Yeah. And so then he handed them all out because he had to buy them. Because he already committed. Yeah, but it just goes to show these are not easy to do, these blind tastes. Absolutely. And that's fun because I haven't smoked the fosto in probably, jeez, I don't

know, seven years. Because when I smoke tat, it's always like one of those, either the surrogates or I'm a big Latilier fan. Oh, dude, I'm the avion. Oh, the avion, the avion. If I find the 13s or the eleven s in any store, I'll buy five or six of them. I'll just sit on them because those are so good. I actually just joined Saints and centers this year, so, um, they're going to send out some stuff this October, I think, so hopefully. See, the monster series

was always my jam. I love Petite Lancero and Mike, good old boy Mike, makes fun of me all the time for petite Lancerios because he hates petite lanceReals. And I'm like, the flavor and complexity that you get out of that size cigar, you have to be spot on. And I think for any manufacturer, like, if you were to do a petite Lancero, I'm sure it would be fire, fire, because the way you blend and your flavor profile would match well with a petite Lance arrow. And so it's

just, man, that's my jam, man. I can't say anything good. Uh, I can't say anything good enough about it because that's my point, man. If you can make a good petite Lancero, you can do some really good. Yeah. I mean, I remember when Caldwell did the Eastern Standard Silk Road and how drastically different the blend was because the actual Eastern standard has La Haro in it. Ah, but you couldn't have La Harrow in the Lancero because that's all you tasted, the wrapper

ratio. So it was a real challenge to get that. But it's such a dynamite cigar. It feels like when I smoke it, it's like, uh, a portrait of the Eastern standard. It's not the Eastern standard, but it's a portrait of it. It's an interpretation of it, because you couldn't do the exact same thing and make it work in that blend. You got five different tobaccos in there, right? But in a Lancero, you get two. That's super fun.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yeah. Well, as, uh, sip Southern smokes like to say, all things good in life are worth discussing. And I appreciate you for being here, and I look forward to what you do in the future. Thank you for having me. Yeah, man. Thank you so much. And this is good old boy barger signing off. And you guys smoke well. Anything to say in closing, just enjoy what you smoke. That's right. Enjoy the experiences,

because that's what they are. Their moments, their experiences, their memories. Enjoy it. All right, well, y'all have a good night. We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you're listening to us online, do yourself a favor and tap, just tap it in the subscribe button. Give it a little tappy. Tap, tap, tap a room. The easiest way to listen to our show is to ask Siri, Alexa, Google, Uncle Larry, or whoever it is that talks to you on your phone, play podcast, sipsuds and

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