Alexa: [00:00:00] We see it all the time, don't we? This vocal coach who specializes in, this singing teacher who's an expert for, and it can leave us wondering where we even fit in this entire world of singing teaching.
Well this week on the Singing Teachers Talk podcast I'm joined by fellow vocal coach Molly McLinden who teaches many ages and genres to discuss how specialising can be both an advantage and a disadvantage to our businesses.
Molly, can you describe a typical week in your life as a singing teacher and the different people that come to you for singing lessons?
Molly: Well, that's the beauty of it. I wish there was something that you could say was typical, but fortunately, and I say fortunately, and I mean it, there is not. Well, if I were to go close to typical, I would say I've got it evenly split across every age group, every level, and every genre.
So we're talking [00:01:00] musical theater teenagers are a big part of it. Adult rockers are a big part of it. Karaoke singers, church singers, you name it, I've taught it. And I'm still teaching it. I'm still finding genres I didn't know existed and they're still coming to me.
Alexa: Amazing. I know it's really hard, it's almost like picking a favorite child, but out of the array of things that you do day to day, do you find yourself having a favorite?
Molly: You know, that's a very good question, and I've always wondered, do I really have a favorite? And, I guess I kind of do. My first love, way before I ever started training for voice at 13, was rock. So, I gotta say, when the rockers come in of any age, I do have the most fun with the rockers.
Alexa: So have you ever felt pressure to specialize in maybe the rock vocals or any other part of singing or vocal pedagogy?
And if so, [00:02:00] how have you navigated that to not specialize?
Molly: You know, I've been told by numerous people that I should specialize. And these are people that are actually in my field, or just business people outside of the field saying, Oh, well, if you have a niche segment, then you're going to make more money, you're going to have more people.
And, you know, I've, I think there's some truth to that. I've seen it work beautifully for several of my colleagues, but at the same time, I think a lot of people draw the right people to themselves, that they're true to themselves. And it wouldn't be true to me if I was to limit myself to just one genre. I mean, first of all, I'd be extremely bored.
And if I'm bored, I'm not the best teacher for them because I'm just phoning it in. But with this variety, I think it energizes me. It keeps me on my feet. It gets me reaching out to other colleagues to learn more about each genre and vocal technique. And yeah, I mean, it, I understand it completely not working for others, [00:03:00] but I found after all these years, it does work for me.
Alexa: For you, as you say, it's not something that you've wanted to do, but how could somebody like us, another singing teacher, identify the area that they would like to specialize in and that they would thrive from?
Molly: Saying yes to every workshop, I think that has been, when I've seen colleagues other than myself go out there and decide, Yeah, I can teach more than one genre, or I can be really good in one genre, or who knew, I was good at teaching the genre.
It started with, Going beyond what they learned as an individual voice student and getting outside that bubble of what we learned because think about it this way if you're usually when we're studying voice privately at least speaking for myself and lots of people I know just locally we tend to focus on one genre like for me when I was really serious it was musical theater slash classical and so you're putting all your eggs in one [00:04:00] basket because you kind of have to so that's all we know for those years is that one technique but I found that once I got my vocal performance degree.
Well, my university is the world. I get the chance to go out and experience whatever the heck I want. I can go to a virtual workshop, and I do plenty of those. I can go to local ones through my local chapter of NATS or whatever. So I really do think the sky's the limit. And if we are holding ourselves back, it's just our own limiting beliefs, thinking, oh, since I've only done this for X amount of years, I can only teach this.
It really starts by taking that one step. Just start by pursuing that one thing you always wanted to learn. And since you know the basic mechanisms of voice, there's no reason why you can't teach the style of another.
Alexa: In your view, what classes someone as a specialist?
Molly: A specialist, I would say, they are getting into the [00:05:00] nitty gritty of that one particular genre slash style every single day that they teach, and everybody that comes to that person knows that's what they're getting in, that's what they're in for.
They are known as the guru of, let's say, screaming, or, uh, Broadway belting, you name it. It's, that is what they are known for. They own it, and there's no question, what you're going to, for, for that teacher for is that one particular style and sound.
Alexa: As singing teachers who are consistently learning, showing up to courses, Buying books, listening to podcasts, interacting with each other.
We're all there to learn more about voice, whether that's function or, or different techniques that we could implement, different exercises. Does that not make us all some sort of voice specialist of some kind?
Molly: Absolutely, it does. I guess [00:06:00] when you said the word specialist, that just, you know, That just kind of says to me, based on what I see a lot of people that do, Specialized always said to me, there's one particular genre or something that they do really, really, really well.
Like, if you say, again, oh, if you're looking for somebody who works really well with coloratura sopranos, that's your teacher. That was just kind of something That I was always hearing, especially as like a voice student, or somebody who was just getting started, that that's what specialising meant to me.
But it's absolutely true what you say too, you are a specialist. I guess you would say no matter what you are teaching, whether it's just a specialist in good technique, you could say, right? You could say a specialist in healthy technique, a specialist in Confidence. It, I guess, you have me think about it in another way, is it doesn't have to be so rigid in the ways that we have described ourselves as a voice specialist.
Alexa: I looked up the definition of specialism when I knew we were coming on to chat together, and it [00:07:00] said to concentrate on and become an expert in a particular subject or skill. So I just wanted to play a little bit of devil's advocate, and just consider whether as voice teachers doing what we're doing, whether we are already a specialist in this particular subject.
But as you say, there are going to be sub genres of that, that people tune into to market themselves. So, Thinking about the advantages of specializing, what could they be?
Molly: Oh, well, I've heard so many really fascinating ways that people specialize. Oh, certainly people that you've known and you've interviewed that specialize by teaching young voices, which I think is much needed and incredible.
And that was one thing I kind of flirted with just doing exclusively for a while. So that's certainly one. Working with the aging voice is another. Beginners, which was another one I really, really strongly [00:08:00] considered specializing in, the beginner voice. And I've even heard of people specializing with people that just want to do karaoke.
And believe it or not, at one point when I was teaching in another state, and I was a member of San Francisco Nats, there was a man there who specialized in, now this is really niche, working with just beginners beauty pageant queens and getting them ready to do their right. I mean, talk about really specializing in preparing them for their talent competition of beauty pageants, which I thought, well, that's pretty wild, but good for him that he can do that and find enough clientele that that's sustainable.
Alexa: I think with specializing, it can, it can hone in on what you are really interested in and what you really enjoy and so when I asked you what your favorite thing was, that potentially may have been rock for you if you loved it the most, if you found that was most interesting in your week. I think also when we consider marketing, it can give us a perceived value of [00:09:00] they're the expert in this particular area, so they must know all in that subject.
Molly: That is very true, and that's where I struggle, because obviously with some, the majority of people doing the opposite of what I'm doing, right, this is the person to go to for musical theatre, this is the person to go to for this and that, and that's where I struggle. You know 100 percent what you're getting into, right?
And then when it goes for a Google search, when it goes for word of mouth That carries a lot of weight, right? That's your guy to go to for your rock vocals or whatever. So where does it leave people like me? Well, yeah, the marketing kind of have to, I kind of have to consider that I'm unconventional that way.
That if you want to work with me, that I embrace it all and that you are in good hands and that. I have studied all these genres and if there's anybody who's listening who can relate, same applies to you. You don't have to feel that if it's not you, that you have to [00:10:00] call yourself anything that Relates to a specific genre.
You can just hone in on the general things that make you a good vocal coach.
Alexa: Do you ever find yourself having a slant in your marketing towards the rock or towards the musical theater classical that you grew up with? Do you ever find yourself kind of leaning towards them because you'd like more of those things?
Molly: Well, uh, I mentioned rock, but. Also, musical theater is probably another huge, huge portion of my studio. So I find that if I am talking in the text of my social media post or my website text, I do tend to mention those two genres quite a bit. And with the hope of it not being confusing, knowing that if you are a rocker coming to me that happens to be like a professional who's gigging, or if you're like a teenage [00:11:00] musical theater student that wants to be serious.
That both, both types of students and more are absolutely welcome. So I try to put it all in there.
Alexa: When do you recommend a student to see a specialist?
Molly: That's also something I thought about quite a bit too, as far as a specialist. Well, a lot of my students tend to be beginners to intermediate and some are professional and there are a lot of rusty professionals.
So let's say for example, I've got a rocker who's found his voice again, he's a lot less rusty, and he's feeling a lot more confident. And now he wants to take it to the next level, and he wants to do the screamo stuff. He wants to do the growls, and the screams, and the stuff that I'm still learning myself to teach.
I would send them to a specialist. Absolutely. That's just like the prime example. And I'm up front [00:12:00] with them too. I said, you know what? That's a really cool thing to want to learn because it is amazing. I couldn't in good faith try to teach you that when I haven't fully grasped it myself, so go to somebody like Melissa Cross, who's like the queen of screen.
Alexa: Yeah, sure. And we know when somebody maybe has hit some vocal trouble and they need an ENT, we absolutely recommend that voice specialist.
Molly: 100%. 100%. I will not pretend to be the person who can fix all their vocal problems. I know many things are beyond my capabilities. And absolutely when I hear people with vocal troubles as well, definitely the ENT.
Alexa: Can you think of any other advantages that could be from thinking about our specialism and, and why that would be a pro for our business?
Molly: I think if you really do specialize, that just kind of gives you that authority, doesn't it? Right? When you're, I think your message is very clear, is that you often are that person that comes right to mind [00:13:00] when you say a certain thing and, oh, that that's your person.
So I think that is definitely the clear advantage there is that you're first on the mind. Your message is very, very clear.
Alexa: How do we know when we have reached the specialist title then? Because I have a real love of musical theatre. I feel I've got quite a good knowledge about it. I teach it mostly. But how do I know when it is ethical?
Or when I possibly could call myself a musical theater expert or a musical theater specialist if I wanted to brand myself like that.
Molly: Say it starts with a passion. I would say if you want to really, really specialize in a particular genre style, ask yourself, is that my number one? So it starts from there.
Just like if you're a performer yourself, it's the same thing I tell the singers. Same thing is if you want to really go for one particular genre, ask yourself, is that my big [00:14:00] passion? Do you see yourself teaching that? Do you see yourself performing that genre? almost exclusively for the rest of your career, then I would say, then I guess that is your calling, because you feel it a lot more strongly, I think.
So I think it starts with that, and then going from there to call yourself a specialist as a teacher in a genre also has to do with measurable results. Are you seeing your musical theater students succeed in the things they come to see you for? Are they getting the roles? Are they placing in vocal competitions?
Are they getting into the, the training program? So that's another way I could say you can consider yourself a specialist. But above all, it starts with you just knowing that that is the area that you feel strongly about and that you are just not getting bored with.
Alexa: It was really interesting how you brought up the gentleman who specializes in working with beauty pageant [00:15:00] competitors.
Because it helps us to highlight that we can actually niche down the specialisms. So, for example, I teach in a drama school, so perhaps my specialism could be musical theatre in training compared to somebody who's working with the pros who are already graduating, for example. What other things could we niche down to meet us where we're at?
Molly: As you were talking about musical theatre specifically, I knew of somebody who just taught musical theatre teens. And that tended to work out really well for him. Um, musical theater. Kids is another one. There are schools all over here in the U. S. called School of Rock. So that's another potential way if you want to work with young child or teen rock vocalists.
So looking at age is certainly a way. And level. Like you said, beginner. That's another huge way too. Is kind of niching down further from there. Maybe beginner. [00:16:00] Musical theater teens, right? So really, it's kind of endless possibilities, but that's how I would start. If I were to do that, I would look at level and perhaps age, because that's what I tend to see.
works for those that do decide to make that choice for their own personal studio.
Alexa: Yeah. So you've got passion, the thing that we're really into. That's everything. Yeah. The things that we're getting results with and that we don't get bored of. Yes. And then considering things like age, niching down the topic.
And this is something that we are maybe encouraged into anyway, when we're creating our avatar for our marketing. So that can be a really useful exercise as well, to not just know that you're target marketing, but also to know that if you were to specialise, These would be some of your key words or your key things to look out for.
Molly: I think there's some untapped markets out there too, as far as [00:17:00] age, everybody's going where the teens were the, you know, they say, well, the parents have the money and there's truth to that, but they're also forgetting that, well, the boomers got a lot of time and they've got a lot of, a lot of them have a lot of money to burn now that we're retired and they want things to do.
They're pretty active people. So I think that's kind of an untapped market. Because. A lot of times too, some of them are reluctant to get into a new hobby. So that's another thing that I've seen with my own eyes has been, I've been getting quite a few of them too.
Alexa: We've gone through some of the advantages and how we can pinpoint where we might go if we were wanting to specialize, how we might be able to do that.
But in the beginning, you mentioned something really important, which was, if I did that, I'd be bored. Thanks. So let's have a little look at some of the things that may be at a disadvantage and I remember Joshua Alamu, a great vocal coach who's worked with the likes of Rita Ora and Little Mix. [00:18:00] He raised some time ago on his Instagram, a phrase that is Jack of all trades, master of none, but we tend to disregard the entirety of that quote, which is Jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes is better than a master of one.
And I feel like that really resonated with this topic that we're chatting about today. Because, okay, we might be putting our fingers into lots of pies, and some people might tell us then that we're, we're not really a master of any of them. But actually, being able to do lots of different things might come at an advantage for us.
So let's talk about why we might not specialize. Boredom was one. Why else?
Molly: Well, another thing that I may not have mentioned, I don't think I've mentioned it yet, is I also do things outside of voice. And that includes teaching acting, speaking voice, and also beginner [00:19:00] piano, and music theatre, and also improv.
So yeah, that was a lot! So, some of us aren't, aren't, Really tooting our own horn, I guess you would say, if we do have another skill besides teaching voice. But, I've been encouraging other colleagues to use that to their advantage. You want to maybe look at yourself as having that value for teaching vocal technique, obviously, but what else can you offer them that's going to come in handy for them as a singer?
I will hear my students say, Oh, I didn't know you taught that, too. I could use the help with that. For example, music theory.
Alexa: Yeah, and you never know when those transferable skills are going to actually be really beneficial to this one thing as well.
Molly: Right, right! And then that goes for genres too, because I always encourage my singers of all ages To not pigeonhole themselves, if, that is, if they don't want to do it.
I mean, obviously, there's plenty of people that know that musical theater or pop, whatever, [00:20:00] is their big, big passion. That's all they can see themselves doing. Beautiful! I, of course, I encourage that. But for those that want to do a little bit more, that's always encouraged, too. So, you never know when that musical theater student, for example, has been asked to sing at Let's say, sing at a somber event, like a funeral service or something, where a Broadway tune wouldn't fly.
Or, if, right, there's different reasons why they may want to know something different. Or, well, I'm a theater kid, but there's this vocal jazz group at my school, and I think I kind of want to try it out. There's a lot, there's some examples I can think of at the top of my mind. And, well, why should you send them to someone else if it's most likely you can teach them the very, the very thing they're looking for.
Alexa: Yeah. I think musical theater is a really good example of this because you could specialize in musical theater, but under the umbrella, you have the legit sound, which is very, very different to the contemporary musical theater [00:21:00] sound. And so they are two very different things that come under one specialism.
Molly: Especially now, right? It's just, I really feel for the legit voice singers. In this environment when every show that's being written is so pop and rock based, but it's absolutely true It's absolutely true for a lot of these young musical theater students as you probably know most of them are expected to belt and Going into legit territory is just kind of terrifying for them
Alexa: Yeah, they want it to be over very, very quickly.
Molly: They do! They're second guessing themselves left and right because it feels and sounds so different to them.
Alexa: We spoke to the Sing Up Foundation recently and there was a point that was brought up about how we actually perceive excellence and we spoke about in the advantages of specializing that there is this perceived value that you're sort of maybe more knowledgeable or better [00:22:00] or more esteemed than somebody who doesn't have that.
specialisms said on their branding. How can we consider what we deem as excellent, so that people like us who maybe don't specialise or say that we specialise can still be viewed on the same shelf as somebody who does?
Molly: That's a really good question. I would say it's a matter of just building is obviously at the beginning, there's going to be people that aren't sure about what you have to offer.
Can she really help me with rock vocals or can she really help me with this? It's a matter of believing in your ability and continuing to provide the results. Because when I first started teaching, it was all about basic musical theater and what I really knew. Because that's what a lot of us really knew, right?
It's just so wonderful now that rock vocals and pop is being taken seriously, but it's about a time, you [00:23:00] know, it was musical theater and classical and that was that. But it took some growing pains for sure. But I wasn't, it's a matter of just not giving up. I'm going to teach the rockers what I know. They can take it or leave it.
Silly but surely results will speak for themselves, I think, for any teacher. And People talk too. They will talk to their, again I'm using the rock example again because that's largely what I know, they'll talk to bandmates, they'll, we'll get around, there'll be Google reviews. It's really just a matter of believing in it, not giving up, and also the biggie, continuing to learn, continuing to get out there, get out there, get out there.
And go to those workshops. Go to what always has interested you. Continue to keep learning. In every genre, even your big passion, because there's always more to learn. But it's just a matter of persisting. If that's something that, if that's a genre you really want to teach, there's a way. They will find you, and the results will happen.
Alexa: And maybe you can help us, because without a speciality, I [00:24:00] guess there's so much to stay updated and informed on across all of these wonderful genres. And, um, and ages and what the voice can do at different life cycles. How do you manage this, particularly with listening to music? Because somebody might bring in a Golden Age musical one week and then bring you, I don't know, a Japanese rock in another scenario.
So how do you stay on top of, of the actual songs that people could be bringing in?
Molly: That's really hard to do. I won't lie. I have to say I learn a lot from my students that way with every single genre. Cause again, who's got the time, right? Even if you're just teaching musical theater, there's so much being written because it's become, it's become a hot genre.
I remember. I don't know if you remember this, but over 20 years ago, it wasn't supposed to look cool like musical theater, and all of a sudden, it is. And so, they're the ones schooling me sometimes, but you just kind of have to be humble about a [00:25:00] lot of that and realize that, you know, we don't have all the answers about what's going on. good to sing, what's current to sing. So it's a lot of collaboration, I would say.
I think the student also likes it when they bring something and you say, Oh, I don't know about this. Can you tell me about it? And they get to share their passion that way.
I've seen it happen all the time. And that's when I know they are really in it to win it, when they're the ones who are digging around and finding all this cool stuff.
cool off Broadway stuff, but, you know, that says a lot about them, doesn't it? That they are really a true student because so much more happens outside the studio, and they're just proving that point.
Alexa: And where do you go? What platforms do you rely on to help keep you as up to date in all of these possible areas as, as you can?
Molly: I have to be on pretty much every single mailing list I can think of. Joining as many groups as I can, whether it's on Facebook, because there's a lot out there. That's [00:26:00] the beautiful thing is there's so much content. Every given day, there seems to be some sort of webinar or something. So, if somebody's interested in finding as much as possible, get on the email list.
Definitely, definitely. Every single organization you can think of. Follow as many people as you can on social media. You never know when they're going to have something too. Maybe sometimes a free webinar if you're really lucky. But I would just say, just spend, carve out a portion of your week finding these new, these other organizations or teachers or you name it.
So that you can stay updated because you just never know. I've found so much.
Alexa: Well, who's got a really good newsletter. Who would you shout out for that for us to join their mailing list?
Molly: Oh, definitely NATS, which is a U. S. organization, National Association of Teachers of Singing. NATS. org is a great one.
Uh, there's other organizations too, like the Musical Theater [00:27:00] Educators Alliance. I believe that there's plenty of people in the U. K. that join that too. I think it's an international organization if I am correct. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is. Oh, those are just two off the top of my head. And then, if there's a teacher in particular that you admire, like a guru, like Melissa Cross.
She provides these amazing webinars, I think, about once a year and they're well worth it. So those are just three biggies I can think of off the top of my head.
Alexa: What would be your biggest tip to singing teachers listening who aren't sure if they should or want to specialize in something related to voice?
Molly: You know, I would say If it frightens you, start with seeing what else you could do, what your other strengths are, that are, I guess you would say, complementary skills you could offer in addition to teaching singing. Start there. So, let's say, for example, there's a singer, [00:28:00] uh, a singing teacher whose real big passion is, again, musical theater, going with that because that is a very common one, and you're kind of reluctant to teach, let's say, Pop or rock vocalist.
Well, what else is it that you have had to study at length that you find yourself doing with your students anyway? Is it maybe, um, beginner piano? Maybe you want to go further with that. Maybe you want to open up your studio to not just musical theater students, but also teaching beginner piano to young children as well.
And just kind of increase your income and your reach that way. And maybe look at providing packages where you've, say for example, You've got an hour lesson with your musical theater student and half, uh, 45 minutes is spent teaching rep and vocals and all that with your student, but also maybe 15 is getting them used to the keyboard.
So finding ways to just kind of challenge yourself and keep yourself. Well, [00:29:00] not bored. And keep yourself valuable, too. And value to your studio and also to your students. So I would start there. See what else it is you can teach. If you are, again, going with musical theater. Maybe you were a professional actor at one point or studied acting.
Well, have you added monologue coaching to your offerings? put that on your website, put that on your Instagram. So I would say start there if you don't really necessarily want to step into a different genre. There's always more you can do that's going to keep it interesting and valuable for your students and for yourself.
Alexa: I know in the beginning of this chat, we were talking about the definition of specialisms, and that is to concentrate on and become an expert in a particular subject or skill. But I wonder if there is a redefinition that we could allude to, which is not specializing in one, but having a, an eclectic mix of things you can offer.
Like you have described there, I know there's people who have trained [00:30:00] in vocal massage so that if they have somebody come, they could actually offer that as something else instead of referring on to somebody else or doing acupuncture as part of that. Or even mindset coaching. I think, as you say, tapping into the other things that you feel you are interested in that could actually come in and compliment rather than just going down one avenue.
Molly: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, now that you're mentioning these things, I know there's a few vocal teachers out there that won't, that are also certified yoga instructors and they'll incorporate that into it too. So there's ways we can combine it all. Absolutely.
Alexa: Yeah. We were speaking to Olly Christopher. Last week on the podcast, he's a British performer here.
He's been in a couple of the musicals on West End stage, but he's also a singing teacher who juggles the two, uh, in tandem. And he was saying, no other things that you're interested in. It doesn't have to just be all [00:31:00] encompassed by voice. It can actually be, if you're interested in sports, As you say, yoga could be something that we bring in.
If you're interested in reading or cooking, could you also maybe look into nutrition as something to help with your singing? There's, there's so much that we can transfer and include for that variety and enjoyment of fulfilling all the parts of us as teachers too.
Molly: Absolutely. And why wouldn't that work?
Because we are the unique instrument. We're the human instrument. And it's not just one thing. It's It's all encompassing, and so there's no reason why these things shouldn't work. I think if there's any reluctance, it's just because it hasn't been done before, or the fear of the unknown, but absolutely. I love those ideas so much.
Alexa: Well, Molly, what's coming up for you and your singers that are coming to your studio?
Molly: A variety of things. I've got my musical theater students are really, [00:32:00] really, really, uh, steady. I guess you would say they work very steadily, even though most of them are teenagers, but a lot of them are doing great things like Broadway Artists Alliance.
I've got plenty that are involved in that, which has been great. Such a wonderful experience for them. So that's really a big, a big deal is a lot of them are spending some time in New York, sometimes a couple of times a year. And I've got my rockers, my adult rockers who are gigging. I've got some people that sing the hard stuff.
I got some people that sing punk and steadily gigging with that. And. I just had a lovely woman join me who's very busy in a Taylor Swift tribute band. Amazing. And I got everything in between too. I got people that just want to karaoke night and enjoy themselves. But again, you name it. I've taught it and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Alexa: Well, where can our listeners find out more about this really colorful studio of yours and get in [00:33:00] touch with any questions?
Molly: Well, they can find me at vocalmolly. com and that's the same way they can find me on Instagram and also. I plan on shooting more videos soon. I'm sort of revamping my YouTube channel too.
But for now, I got a lot of blog posts that are up, including my most popular blog post, which is 25 songs for bad karaoke singers and 25 more songs for bad karaoke singers. But it also covers rock, musical theater, country, and again, all the genres, because I do love all the genres and all the singers.
Alexa: Yeah, brilliant. Well, Molly McLinden, thank you so much for your company today. It's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure here.
Molly: Thank you so much for having me.