[00:00:00] We talk a lot about the singing lesson, don't we? Well, it's what we do. Understanding how to set up a structured warm up, include a variety of technical exercises in the lesson, learning from industry professionals about the developments in voice science, and understanding how we can run a successful business.
But what about actually learning from the singers themselves? Understanding their perspective on their own lessons, why they found us in the first place, And how it feels to be asked Socratic questions, open questions, and when we ask for feedback as teachers. Well, welcome to a new feature on the Singing Teachers Talk podcast called Student Spotlight, where we are inviting students in to talk about their lessons and what they get from it and how they find the structure.
To kick it all off, we are welcoming my wonderful student, Jackie Pryce, from Maud's Dog. And Jackie helps us to understand what she was looking for in a singing teacher, and how she's got to know her voice, [00:01:00] and how she finds some of the things that we do in our lessons.
Alexa: Jackie, can you tell me what your earliest singing memory is?
Jackie: I was probably around eight or nine, probably around that age. And I used to live in Gosport and there was what we used to call the RNA, which is the Royal Naval Association, sort of social club. My dad was in the Navy, so we used to go there once a week.
And we went there this particular week and there was a man singing and playing on the keyboard. And a little girl went up to him and sang a song. And I was watching all of this. It's quite a vivid memory. And so, I'm amazed at the confidence I had then. So I walked up to him and I said, Can I sing a song, please?
I can't even remember what the song was. But he went, Yeah, sure, okay. I think I told him what I wanted to sing and he played it and I sang into the microphone. And I just remember at that moment just really [00:02:00] enjoying that, really felt I was in a place where I felt comfortable, I suppose.
Alexa: Oh, that's so cute. I can just imagine little Jackie walking up to the man playing and having a sing song.
Jackie: Yeah, toddling up. Can I sing a song? Yeah, so, it was quite funny. Yeah, and I hadn't thought about that in years, actually. And You know, it kind of prompted me when we decided to do this podcast and I was thinking about things, I suddenly remembered that memory, so yeah.
Alexa: And now, you are one half of the duo Maud's Dog with your lovely partner Mark. So, I'm just really interested in knowing the journey from being that little girl in Gosport singing, to now, gigging. How that journey has been for you and how you've arrived at Maud's Dog?
Jackie: Well, I grew up listening to all the old musicals.
My parents were very, were quite theatrical. They were in, you know, amateur dramatics. They loved [00:03:00] musicals. So I grew up with all the old, listening to all the old music, , musicals on vinyl, like Singing in the Rain and South Pacific and The King and I. gigging. How that journey has been for you and how you've arrived at Maud's Dog?
Carousel, which is a favourite. And, so at parties, they would all be played, and singing and dancing was kind of like the norm for us when we had parties in our family, we'd all start singing and dancing. And then as I got older, I got into more sort of Andrew Lloyd Webber, so Things like Jesus Christ Superstar became a firm favourite, and then Grease, of course, that came out in the late 70s.
I just found that I just loved, I just loved music and singing. I remember at school, I was 16, we were putting on a production of Oliver. So I, being confident again, I don't know where, I don't know where it's gone, but it's I auditioned for the part of Nancy. And I'd always loved drama, [00:04:00] and my drama teacher was like, Okay, they never heard me sing before, but I always adored drama.
But I sung the song, which I'm just trying to remember the main song that she sings.
Alexa: As long as he needs me.
Jackie: Yes, as long as he needs me, that's one, as long as he needs me. So I sang that and memorized every note. And afterwards he said to me, I can't offer you Nancy because that went to, quite rightly, to a much more mature, sort of, more buxom student who was probably in the sixth form.
I was only in the, in in the fifth form. And he said, but we'd like you to play the actual dojo. Though I was thrilled. I was thrilled with that. I was very tall and skinny, so I could easily, in short hair, I could easily pass for a boy. So that, I did that. And again, just loved it. Just absolutely loved doing that.
And I think something kind of cemented within me then, really, with music and singing.
Alexa: And now that you're in [00:05:00] this duo, you're gigging around, you're doing quite a lot of festivals, you've got a really exciting opportunity coming up in a few weeks at the Troubadour, which is really awesome. And you've had your first single out, Pebble Beach, being played on local radio, and your second song, Not Tonight, is just about to be released.
So, moving from that kind of musical theatre influenced genre to the aesthetic that you have with Maud's dog. How would you say that has transferred, and how would you describe your aesthetic now in this duo?
Jackie: I think the aesthetic is really, for us, it's always about storytelling. Using music to examine the complexities of human nature, really, and the highs and lows and struggles.
And approaching that with curiosity as well, about how we are as human beings rather than a judgement. And examples of that can be heard in Not Tonight which is a song [00:06:00] written about one person caring for another through dementia. And that song is about, also about human strength and compassion and love and dedication, as much as anything, and hope as well.
And also in Maine to L. A., which is another one written, another, one of our songs written about a book that I read about a woman's journey in the 1950s. She rode on a horse from Maine to L. A. It's a true story with her dog, which is a lovely story. And then I think within that we kind of pull on our influences of Jazz, folk, blues, rock and also musical theatre, because I still have that love of musical theatre,
Alexa: so when people listen to Pebble Beach and Not Tonight and your other material, are there artists out there that you would say share that same aesthetic that we might be able to notice?
Jackie: Yeah, I think so. A big influence for me is Kate Bush. I've adored her and loved her since I was very, very young.
So that, and she just writes about [00:07:00] everything, every single possible subject, really. I'm also influenced by Renaissance. Who are a band, prog rock band from they were active during the late 60s, 70s. I got into them through my sister really liking them. I think it's either Renaissance or Renaissance.
They seem to pronounce it Renaissance, but I like to say Renaissance. But they I love the way they have a female vocalist and again they sing about they're kind of folky but quite rocky. They tell really good stories, really interesting stories about all sorts of things, mystical things and human beings and how we deal with things really.
Alexa: And how did you get into the kind of rocky side of things?
Jackie: Well, after Playing the outfield dodger at school which I loved. When I was 19, I joined my first rock band because my boyfriend then was a drummer in a rock band. And, um, It was a soft rock band, really. And so I went along to a rehearsal [00:08:00] and said, oh, I wouldn't mind.
They were looking for a singer, and I said, I wouldn't mind having a go. So I had a little go with the microphone, and they were like, right, you're in. I think they'd been playing for so long without a singer, they were just happy that someone had come along and picked up the mic. And we were quite ambitious.
We sent, tapes off, because that was in the days of tapes. to record labels and things like that. Nothing really happened. But we did write. I that's where I discovered that I really enjoyed writing. As a child, I really liked writing poetry. And then I really enjoyed writing the lyrics.
And then I was in various sort of duos and rock bands during the rest of the 80s and 90s and then in the early 2000s joined Ferro Musical Society and then in 2004 bumped into my now partner Mark who he had played guitar in in a rock band called Vaults who, who had, who actually got signed, I think, to a French label and that was sort of back in the early 80s and we'd kind of known each other then but we bumped into each other and were chatting and that's how we [00:09:00] started writing together and that's how love blossomed as well.
Yeah. And we gigged a lot quite, for quite a few quite a few years and we took a couple of breaks life events and things. And then we restarted in 2019 and then the pandemic put a stop to that and then finally we had our first gig back together as a duo in 2022. So we've got a lot of experience between us.
Alexa: And we started working together in the summer of 2021 and we've been meeting pretty much on a bi weekly basis since then. So this podcast, you know, we try to bring a lot of stories about. being a singing teacher, technical things that we can do in sessions, the way we can communicate, bits of business, but we haven't yet spoken to a singer like yourself, but we can actually really hear from you what singing lessons mean and how they work for you and what you get from them.
So we're really happy to have you here to launch this [00:10:00] new feature on our podcast really. So why were you actually seeking out singing lessons? in that summer of 2021 when we first met?
Jackie: In 2021 obviously we'd all been through the pandemic, and I think a lot of us were looking at our lives and thinking, like, what really matters to me?
What do I need to be doing more of? Because we haven't had our freedoms taken away for so long, and our lives turned upside down. It made me want to review my life and I thought what do I really want to do and what do I really love and I thought I need to be singing again and that's what I want to do because we'd had a little bit of a break from the music.
So when we restarted the duo, I felt I needed to reassess where my voice was really. I had, I'd used it a little bit off and on but not as much. And I wanted to see where my range was because I'd got older and of course your range changes when, as you get older, so your voice naturally lowers at the older you get, which is quite nice because then [00:11:00] you get some, some little lower notes, a bit more of a richness.
And I wanted to just refresh and update my technique really and build my confidence up again and extend my range. So it took me a while to find the right teacher. I did a lot of research and yeah. Which is why, and then I felt that you offered what what I needed.
Alexa: Amazing. And what were you looking for in a singing teacher specifically?
What were they going to need
Jackie: to offer you? I think first and foremost kindness, patience and honesty. It's really important to me. A thorough knowledge of the techniques of singing. Experience of performing themselves and the issues that can come up also around anxiety and then how to address those issues, how to, um, how to deal with those issues when they come up.
Yeah, that was important.
Alexa: And something that you actually really like, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but you seem to get a real buzz off of [00:12:00] understanding. The kind of vocal science y, tech y bits. We do tend to geek out quite a bit, don't we, in our lessons about things? We definitely do. Yeah, I love it.
Jackie: Really important to me because I find it fascinating. I really do. How sound is produced. And how we can modify and change that sound as well. By using our Singing equipment, which is what I call it. And I've had training before over the years but no one's really gone into the technicalities. I always wanted more of that.
Wasn't really enough for me, you know, just do these exercises and sing this song. Sometimes I don't know, I could be singing under the note, but I'd be like, well, why am I singing under the note? What's happening there? Let's look at that, you know? Um, I just find it really fascinating. And I also want to be able to go away when I'm not having a singing lesson and be able to.
try things out for myself and understand what's going on. So if something is for instance my tongue tends to misbehave a little bit, it can [00:13:00] back up slightly. And so that's not something I was aware of, but now I'm much more aware of that. So that's something I can modify that. I can have a little E vowel shape in the tongue.
I can push that forward, and I'm much more aware of what's happening. Inside my mouth, my larynx, my vocal cords, so that I can produce the sounds that I want to produce in the way that I want to produce them. So I get the best out of my voice. And then I kind of really look forward to the notes as well, because then you reiterate everything in the notes.
And that serves as a good reminder as well.
Alexa: Yes. Yeah. So you get the attendance notes. You like the kind of lesson to be written out for you, don't you, as a refresher. .
Jackie: Absolutely. And just understanding that and understanding a little bit about what's going on when we sing. For me, I feel like that helps me to be a better singer.
Alexa: Yeah. And what were your expectations when you started taking the lessons?
Jackie: I think my expectations, first of all, [00:14:00] to improve on pitching tone, and also vocal control. So where I'd had a little bit of a, a break as you know, when you're not using your voice regularly, it's like anything really, and you leave it, , you start to lose can start to lose those things.
So pitching tone and voice control are really important to me to also extend my range of it as well. But also I want it to be listened to. I want it to be understood when I struggle, when I suffered any low confidence within myself. I wanted that to be understood. And. And also, um, to work through issues methodically.
So we backtrack. So this is happening, I'm having a problem with this. Okay, so let's try these things. So we try things and then it's almost like you then find the thing that, that makes it work for you. And there could be three or four different ways. [00:15:00] It could be anything like using a diphthong or using trying even scotting down on a note can suddenly make it ping out just how you want it.
So all those things which are quite physical really, really help. Um, and that was something I'd never had before with a singing teacher. So it was, that was great. Yeah. Which helped with me meeting my expectations that I mentioned before.
Alexa: Did you have any expectations of me as the teacher when you first started out?
Jackie: I think I did, actually. I think I did. I already knew that you were an accomplished singer, that you had sung professionally. That was important for me. Some people might say, well, it doesn't matter. If you're a singing teacher, it doesn't matter. But I think for me, and I want someone who has been a performer, has experience, to be able of being a professional singer.
Another expectation was, I wanted you to be very knowledgeable about the craft [00:16:00] of singing and the technical side of it. You know, it's, that, that was really important to me as well. That's not to say that other people aren't, but and obviously within the first few lessons you proved that you knew a lot about the voice and you've done extensive training, etc.
Alexa: Phew.
Jackie: Yeah.
Alexa: Pass it.
Jackie: I'm still here,
Alexa: can you talk about maybe a technical challenge that you had experienced and how you've been able to overcome it? working with a singing teacher.
Jackie: Yeah, definitely. So I found that although I'm naturally, I'm quite a low speaking person, of course, had a fairly low speaking speaking voice, but I wanted to develop my chest voice.
And that was something that we have worked on together. So there were some notes like down in the sort of C3, D3, E3 that I couldn't really get to, they were quite weak. Yeah. So we worked on that and we used exercises like Y bars, you know, an E, uh, E [00:17:00] shaped tongue through an OO shaped mouth, which I found, so I used to practice those in the car.
And like with anything, if you practice it, and I generally practice five days a week you then, you're then able to, you then improve. And I remember when I'd come into the lesson sometime after that and then being able to get down into those. into those notes. And we're always checking in, we check in with that chest voice and I remember you saying that it's the foundation the chest voice is the foundation on which you build you know, the remainder of your singing voice. I didn't quite understand that when you first said it, but I completely get it now. I now understand because it is that foundation and I find that I love using my chest voice, you know, and I have the confidence now. I know I can get down into those notes and I do write the songs that I write are are barely lowish and then we go down into those notes that I mentioned before.
That was a technical challenge, but yeah, so to to extend my range like that was amazing, which I think was by about, we did that by about two or three notes, didn't we, I think from where I [00:18:00] was.
Alexa: Yeah, and it's interesting how you talk about your speaking voice because that's been another way that we've been able to find our way into that register.
And as you say, it's one of those foundational parts of our voice. We've got the chest voice and we've got the head voice or falsetto, all those terminologies that can make our head spin. We've just got those kind of registers that are functional kind of foundational building blocks, if you like. So we've used your speaking voice as a way in as well and working on the chest voice.
It was better to start help you have options and to access something that you were, you had a goal towards, and not to take away from your aesthetic style. Like Maud's Dog has your stamp on it, and it's not to deter from your style, it's to give you access to those foundational registers so that you have more to play with.
Jackie: Yeah, absolutely. And that's absolutely done that. And I feel that my voice has strengthened having access to that chest [00:19:00] voice now and having that wider range is great because I've also as you say I've got quite a strong head voice. And I like to use that. I like to have access to those higher notes.
And in our song, Not Tonight, I did some backing vocals, which went up to A5. Uh, and it was great , to realise that I still have access to those higher notes as well if I need them, although I do need to kind of practice those too. It's just nice having that range, which I'm making the most of at the moment,
Alexa: can you share a moment during a singing lesson that has had an impact on you as the artist or in your journey learning more skills in singing?
Jackie: There's a couple of things really, and I think again using the chest voice as an example, I think when I realised that I'd strengthened that so much because we check in regularly with that, don't we, and how much my range had.
had had expanded and then that [00:20:00] helped me have more confidence in performance as well, and also made, it made the songwriting a little bit more flexible too so that had a positive impact on the songwriting. There's also something else that I remember you saying to me when I was talking about different venues, because we're of a certain genre, we don't fit all venues.
And I remember you saying, I think I said to you, you know, we're not every venue's cup of tea, and you said, well that's a good thing, you don't want to be every venue's cup of tea. Which was great, the way you reframed that, because why would we want to be every single venue's the right thing for every venue?
There's so many different genres out there and we're not going to fit every venue. But since then we've found we've stopped being, we have started to find the venues that our genre of music works well in.
Alexa: Since taking singing lessons, have you seen any changes in your preparation routines or your rehearsals? or even your live [00:21:00] performances, and if so, what have they been?
Jackie: Always warm up. I always used to be quite good at warming up, but I have a really thorough warm up now, a good old stretch of the voice but also physically. Make check in with myself as well. We do little stretches and neck stretches and, the head back and the un biting of the jaw, which I love.
Now since you've taught me that one. I love that. 'cause I'm very tense around my jaw can be. So I'm quite, that's a bit of a ritual for me. Before a gig. I generally, before a gig, I'll have the physical. Stretches and unbiting but before I sing, always warm up without fail, always warm up and also cool down as well.
Um, which is something I never used to do until I started having lessons with you, training with you. So also cool down as well. And also mentally, emotionally just having a moment to ground myself as well, so that [00:22:00] I'm not going into the performance thinking, Oh God, I hope that I do alright in that song, I hope that bit's alright, and I hope they like it, and I hope that, so all this anxious stuff going on in my head, I, just really damping that down, grounding myself, and basically, you know, you've got this.
Just get out there, and sing. And I find that keeps me a little bit more calm. for a performance.
Alexa: What would you say is a benefit of continuing your singing lessons? I mean,
You're gigging professionally, you've got some good understanding of what's going on, you've reached some goals. So why do you, and this isn't me being like, don't come back, Jackie.
I love you coming back to see me.
Jackie: Don't get rid of me that easily.
Alexa: I don't want to, I'll be hanging on for dear life. But what would you say is a benefit for you to having these lessons?
Jackie: Well, I think voices are always changing. It's like us, voices are always changing all the time. And so I think it's good to keep up with [00:23:00] training, to just check in, to see where you are, um, to see how your voice is.
And that way you can recognise any of those changes that come up or issues and you can also monitor your improvement as well. So for me, it is important to have those regular sessions to to keep myself on top of my game, if you like.
Alexa: If you had to, build your perfect singing lesson for you that fits your avatar, if you like, what would that look like?
What are the components of that lesson?
Jackie: When I first get to the lesson, I always I like to have a bit of a catch up. We have a bit of a catch up, don't we? Because for me one of the things that I enjoy with your lessons and your approach to singing is that you use a very holistic approach. way of teaching, which means you take into account how I'm feeling, how I am mentally, physically, emotionally [00:24:00] spiritually.
All of that is, is taken into account. Not that we get into, it's not like we get into a therapy session, I'm not saying that, but I think you take that into account and that helps me because I feel, helps me to feel understood. As a singer, and also I feel listened to and seen which is important to me.
It's important also, I think, to, to look at how, if you're going through something emotional, how that can affect the voice. And I think it's important at those times to be quite gentle with yourself and kind to yourself when you have those when you have those. those moments. So my ideal singing lesson would be that we have a catch up, how are things going, how are you feeling, how, you know, how's the voice, what's going on, and then how we run our lessons really.
So then we have a warm up, whatever that feels like, physical warm up as well, obviously, unbiting and the body stretches and a bit of laryngeal massage. And then into the song, and then look and sing [00:25:00] the song and then hear it back and then work on the bits that need working on. I mean that for me is really, that really works for me.
Alexa: In case anyone "at"s me, you do your self massage, don't you? I don't do it. We guide through, because I am not trained in that, so we just do it ourselves. And , I'm quite happy to share with you my clicky larynx.
Jackie: Yes, you do share with me your clicky larynx. Yes, and just for the listeners. Yes, I do up my own massage.
Alexa: As teachers We're often encouraged to ask quite a lot of open questions and asking for feedback from you to just to help you come to realizations really about your own voice because We might be able to suggest things, but really it's you that knows how that feels or if that felt better or worse or the same.
I just would like to get to know from your point of view, how do those questions feel? Like, when I say, what was that like? If you could rate it out of ten, what would that be? Or, if it was a traffic light system, how [00:26:00] does that feel? Like, how do you find those questions?
Jackie: Yeah, I struggle with those a bit because I know it's part of the lesson and I have to, I have, giving feedback is really important, but I struggle a little bit with the rating myself out of 10.
I struggle a little bit with that. I haven't hit a 10 yet, but maybe one day too. So I sometimes feel a bit of pressure to rate myself when I've sung something. And I'm a bit anxious about that. But when you say things like better, worse, or the same, I'm fine with that, because that's something that I can technically feel and judge,
Alexa: and that's totally my role as the teacher, is to figure out which feedback system works best for you. So if I know that rating something out of 10 just brings up some feelings of judgment or whatever, then that's not something that's going to be useful for us in the lesson so we'll find another system that does work, like how does that feel, or is that better, worse, or the same? Would that be red, [00:27:00] amber, green on a traffic light? And that's totally. my role as the teacher to respond to that. Is there anything else in the lesson that you feel is sometimes a bit confusing or you've been left feeling a bit blank about or anything like that?
Jackie: Um, no, I don't think so. I think normally I'll ask if I don't understand something and I'll normally ask. Yeah, and it helps to get the notes as well at the end. So that yeah, that reminds me of what we went through in the lesson, though.
Alexa: For you, what qualities do you think make a great singing teacher?
Jackie: A good sound knowledge, a good sound extensive knowledge of the technicalities of singing and exercises that match the needs of my voice, which you're very good at at doing actually. I think a willingness to teach holistically, treating the person as a whole, I think for me, works for me.
Knowing that many different issues can affect the voice and taking that into account. [00:28:00] Um, also to give honest feedback with suggestions on how improvements can be made necessary, if necessary. I think it's really important to be honest. I know it's really hard as well sometimes. If you think you've sung something quite well, but it's, you listen back and then you think, oh no, that wasn't quite and also, as students we need the feedback of the teacher, really, sometimes, because we don't always hear quite how it's sounding sometimes.
So I think honest feedback is good and to be able to. Advise where, um, information can be obtained. So if they don't know something, which of course is quite normal. Sometimes I'm not sure about that. But but, give advice as to where that information could be, could be obtained. And basically, to come on the journey with me to feel like you're invested in my journey as well is important.
Alexa: Just going on to the kind of honest [00:29:00] feedback that you mentioned there, how would you suggest that a teacher could give a singer some honest feedback that could be received compassionately, but also maybe hits that spot?
Jackie: I think what helps is when I sing the song, you record it, and then we both listen to it back together. For me, I'll have a listen and think of the bits that I think need work on.
And then I'll usually say to you, what do you think? Is there anything you've picked up on? Because there might be something I've missed as well that can be quite useful. But it is important, as you say, not to come across as too critical or judgmental because it can be quite crushing.
Alexa: Yeah.
Jackie: You know, it's hard to find that middle ground, I think.
Alexa: You've got some really exciting few weeks coming up, so tell us, what's next for Maud's dog?
Jackie: So, it's been really busy since we recorded our first single, Pebble Beach. Since we recorded that [00:30:00] and released that at the beginning of June we've got lots of radio play, local radio stations played it, like Basingstoke Community Radio.
One of the promoters that we work with also has access to a lot of radio stations, so hearing yourself on radio is quite surreal. And our second single, Not Tonight, is also out now. It's come out recently. So we're just going to wait and see how, how that's received. We also recorded a video for Pebble Beach, which is also, So, very excitingly, we're playing at the Troubadour in London, which is amazing.
We're doing a half hour set there with two or three other artists. We're supporting a band from LA. They approached us, so we jumped at the chance. So, we're going to be hot footing it to London. Yeah. Which I'm really excited about that. And then for next year, we want to have a summer of festivals.
And it's finding the right festivals. I mean, our genre is I would say is kind of [00:31:00] jazz folk. But we also do a bit of blues and a bit of rock. And, those influences are in there as well. So we plan a summer of festivals next year, but we can just get our name out there and then there'll be a third single coming out.
I think we're aiming for that to be coming out end of this year.
Yeah. So amazing things that you've been doing and what we want is, is for our listeners to be able to hear you. So where can people find out more about Maud's Dog? listen to your material, get you on their playlists, and maybe get in touch with you.
Well, yeah, we'd love for people to get in touch with us. That would be amazing. So we have our website, obviously, www. MaudsDog. Um, we're on Facebook, MaudsDog, on Instagram, MaudsDog. We're also we've just started our first YouTube channel, so everything will be uploaded onto there. including the video of Pebble Beach.
All our gigs, forthcoming gigs, are on our website, so if people [00:32:00] want to pop along and see us, and do approach us, come and have a chat with us, if anybody wants to come and have a chat with me about singing or anything that we've said in this podcast, do approach us and and I would encourage people to support live music, it's really important, live music so yeah, we are out there, we're out and about.
Alexa: Amazing. Well, Jackie, thank you so much for your time. It's been a pleasure to be sitting down with you and getting to chat outside of a singing lesson as well, but I look forward to seeing you for our next lesson in a couple of weeks.
Jackie: Thank you for inviting me. It's been great. Thank you.