Simple questions for one hundred people. Welcome to the experiment. I'm Bill Carrell, and this is my investigation, my research project to gather data from one hundred beautiful human beings for the sole purpose just to see what happens actually across the interviews. Now, the questions are fixed and all the interviews will remain consistent, and the variable will be the actual participants themselves and their answers. So Marcus says, if I'm having you come sit on my porch to
share your thoughts so I can learn about people. We're looking forward to what we're going to learn when we're done, and very interested in the people in the process and in your particular story. So we'll get to know our guest here a little bit through the interview. So let's dive in. What is your full name?
My name is Mark Alan Stewart.
Mark Alan Stewart. Tell me a little bit about that.
Well, I first and last given named Mark Stewart. I was in the music business. I'm still am in the music business for one of my pursuits. And if I add the word Alan in the middle of it, I'm much more googleable. So that's why I've now gone the last four years. To Mark Allan Stewart, it sounds so much more officious.
A marketing genius. I love it. Good for you self. Promotion is horrible, but somebody's got to.
Do it right.
If we don't, who will exactly? So, Mark, what's your favorite nickname that most people don't know?
You know? I Tiger my dad when I when I was very young, I was a really small, sickly, frail and my dad called me tiger. He was an industrial psychologist, so he was setting my inner compass at my inner mojo when I was a little kid. So because I was a little and fronnie in frail, he called me tiger and I kind of grew into it. Yeah, so that's it. So I started as a frail, little, tiny, sickly kid. I ended up when I was playing football in college. I was six three, two hundred and seventy pounds,
So I kind of grew into that tiger nomenclature. But I was a little kid, scrawny kid when I was small, and dad nicknamed me tiger.
So can you say a little bit more about that relationship, because obviously you transformed from like a I don't know, what would you call it like a caterpillar into a butterfly.
Well, my dad was a pure artist in business. As I said, he was a business psychologist, and I loved him dearly. He passed when I was in school, So I grew up dreaming to be part of his company and and and unfortunately didn't have happen to have that opportunity. But he was my best friend growing up. I wasn't a horribly social kid. I spent a lot of time
with my family. My dad was was was he had a congenital heart disease, so he was he was sick of a bunch, and so he and I just spent a lot of time together and we were just absolute besties. And so he could call me tiger, he could call me literally, he could call me whoever he wanted. But I just cherished those those times together and and not in day goes by that I don't think about the positive impact he made in my life.
That's really great. Now, did you have a kind of a pet name for him or was it just dad?
Dad? That that was that? I didn't I think he had a first name. I think it was Kent, but it was Dad that that was like that, you know, the Holy grail term.
There you go. So interesting start to life and quite a trip along the way. When did you first notice what color your hair was?
I met? It's fun. I referenced it that I went to college at Rice, played football there and in If you want a date, I can't give you an exact date, but August nineteen eighty I was a freshman in college and the football team had to fill out a media guide questionnaire and one of the questions they had to height and weight because of the physical exam. One of the questions was hair color. So that's my recollection of the first time I realized, indeed, I do have colored hair.
Before that, you really didn't give a good rap.
Did you never thought about it? But that questionnaire maybe introspective about my follicles?
Well, that's it obviously made an impact in your memory, as you can go right back to that month in nineteen eighty.
I remember because we're in August. September now just came out of August, and every year that time, it's just every one of those years I played football in Houston, Texas, outdoors on AstroTurf in one hundred and ten degree weather. There's a lot of that experience that has been literally burned into my mind. And I just remember those press days. We had basically a day off of practice when we had the media day in press Day and so forth,
and it was just a great respite. And so there were a lot of rich fund memories about that day that we didn't try to knock each other's heads off.
Good for you. I'm going to stay on this thread for a minute. You're kind of a blessed guy. Now, out of three hundred and some odd universities Division one playing football, you had an extremely great underclass for quarterbacks all across the United States. Eighty three would give us some of the best quarterbacks we've ever seen in the game.
Without without question. And so Rice, which was the smallest Division one college at the time, part of the Southwest Conference, So we had four hundre undergraduate four thousand undergraduate kids, smallest D one school and we were in our conference was University of Texas SMU, which back then the s
m U was, you know, was the net. It was the team and Eric Dickerson, Craig James that we played to get So so we played all of these Mamath schools, but they really gave us a break for the two preseason games because we only had to play LSU and Oklahoma for preseason.
Those are good tune ups. I mean, their fans eat their meat without cooking it. I'm telling you all that question, well that was question about it. I mean, when you do barbecue in Texas, it's either cooked for twenty hours or it's one and done. You know, you're right, what a great place to have spent your your college career. So you know you've got all this under your belt, and now you're you're a few weeks older. What did you say is your favorite thing to do to intentionally waste time?
You know, I'm a I'm a realist, but I'm also an optimist. I have uh own three companies and I'm on two boards, so I really try to maximize my time. But I'm a big believer in entertainment. Uh and one of my one of my companies is an entertainment company. And so if it's non business or non family related, I love to break away to and play video games. I'm a video gamer, probably, as you said a couple of weeks in the North, part of the average age
group for video game players. But I kind of grew up in the video game industry and early on in in in Sega Nintendo days, and I to this day, every day I squeak out a little time to relax the left end right side of my brains and play video games.
Do you play any of the classics or are you playing more modern stuff?
Now? All modern? I let's just say that I've killed myself some zombies over the last couple of years.
I like that, And then there's always Fortnite and you know, Minecraft and some of the other ones. My grandsons who are eleven and thirteen, the younger one, when he was eight years old, was competing at a national level for a little while. Yeah, I mean it was really it really had nothing to do with how old you were. In order to be a really good video game player, you know, right.
No doubt, you just have that have that commitment, drive and focus.
Yeah, for sure. So that's a really good thing to do to intentionally waste time. And do you feel like that gives you a competitive edge?
I do because it's such such a divergence from the other things I do during the day and has nothing to do with it. I literally am assembling weaponry and saving the planet by killing zombies. I that that's very distinct from the consulting world that I have or the the music and feel world that I have. So because because I really can recharge and relax and separate from the day to day activities of my traditional business by playing video game, really detaching, really recharging and enjoying it.
I truly I have a lot of fun with it. You know, it doesn't That's why I say I'm an optimist and a realist, because it really doesn't benefit me in any other way other than I have fun. And fun is a good thing.
And the neat part of it is is when people want to talk about being mindful, You're one hundred and seventy percent mindful, and in the middle of a battle, you.
Know exactly right.
I got to save the world. Bill, I'm not fooling around here. We're talking about that. Somebody has to right. So Mark, this is this is fascinating. What's your favorite movie to watch alone?
I reference my dad growing up two movies. We went to two movies on Saturday and one movie Sunday afternoon. My whole life. I love movies. That's why I ended up John Carpenter's second film he had a film called Dark Star, which was actually it was a college project, but it was traditionally released. But his second film, his first independent film, was called Assault on Precing thirteen that he did in nineteen seventy six, and it was made
two years before Halloween. And it's this incredible. The third floor of our house is half of it is my office. You have half is my man cave with the TV and so forth. And I go in there by myself. I watch Assault on Precing thirteen. It's this.
Are you familiar with the film, I believe I am. I'm remembering some young actors that became really big after that.
So it's basically an anti hero hero western cowboy shoot him Up. Set in urban Los Angeles circa nineteen seventy six, and there were two oh my god, and it was super low budget but pure John Carpenter, John Carbon who did the music, and people know him as a great director, but he was a He and Debba Hill as partner, unbelievable musicians. But there was a there was a two
unbelievable character actors that were actually had starring roles. A god name of Austin Stoker who played the police lieutenant but this unbelievable unsung hero of an actor called Darwin Jostin who played the anti hero hero Napoleon Wilson, and just that name, and he was such a quirky, interesting story. But this anti hero hero Napoleon Wilson is just he looked a little bit like Robert Blake, the actor did.
And it's just a great Like I said, it's like it's a western that could have been played in the eighteen eighties, but John Carpenter decided to film it in urban contemporary in nineteen seventy six. Just a really gritty, fun movie that I love watching by myself. I've probably bill seen it one hundred times.
I can tell that you've lost your passion. There's no.
I love the film. I watched it three days ago.
You know, when I was writing these questions, I knew you'd be interviewing you someday. Thank you for sharing all that. I now have something on my to do list. I've got to go and see if I ever did see this movie.
It's interesting because they've remade it with Ethan Hawke in two thousand in ten. I believe I would never watch that remake. I've watched other remakes. I've watched you. John Carpentho did the thing, and then there was a remake of the thing. I've watched that. But Assault them research thirteen. I just said to myself, it can't be any better. It could be different, it's not I'm not going to to my one man cave movie. I'm not going to mess around with it.
I completely agree with you. There are some things that are sacrilegious to do, and to overprint a classic that should never have been remade. That's showing some hootspot these days because everything's done again.
It's interesting because I just spread on one of my feeds two days ago or yesterday kind of the list of great seventies movies you've never heard of, and there's my Assault on Precinct thirteen, and it's all over the place. It's on two B, it's on Netflix, it's on Prime, so you'll be able to access it. But do yourself an hour and twenty six minute favor and rewatch the movie because it's a ton of fun.
I will do so, and I will let you know about it.
Please.
Yeah. So now we can move into the meat and potatoes of this interview. If you were to have an action figure made of you, What superpower would it have and what colors would its uniform be?
Superpower? Definitely, telekinesis without question. My dad got his thesis at Stanford parapsychology and telekinesis. Now he he never made something move with his mind, but he got it. But the approach and the theorems that he crafted to do the research is what got the doctorate. But I always thought that that was the coolest superpower is is tapping the part of the mind? What what what do we what? What do we hear? We only use two percent or
whatever the small percentage is. So I'm thinking, well, if you tap into that other ninety eight percent, you got to move stuff and that would be really because you know the power and strength of emotion and when it becomes a physicality makes sense that you're able to move stuff. So so that would that might superpower? Telekinesis no question. Uh. Colors would be silver and black. Now, not black and silver like venom or like the ponament, but but silver with highlights of black.
There you go, not not not the not the raiders, right exactly? I got you. The opposite of that.
Would you have a cape, a fabulous question. I'm going capeless.
Bill got a gutsy move, but I like it.
I'm going I'm going capless. It's just gonna get get the way of all that telekinesis. So I'm gonna I'm passing. All right.
So, now you've got this marvelous uniform. You're gonna have a mask or anything, or you're just gonna be like everybody will know who you are.
It's gonna be like a like a Lone Ranger type mask. If they know you, they'll figure it out it's you. But still you have it because it's a really great accent.
I don't believe that the people in the nineteen fifties believed that the people in the eighteen eighties were that stupid, you know, right exactly? All right, So now you've got this tool, what are you gonna do for it? Or what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do with it?
Oh? Well, first of all, I'm gonna go on all of the late night talk shows and prove of the amazing Andy wrong that no, you actually can move things with your mind, because if you remember him, he was he was always thwarting Uri Geller and all of those
other guys, So definitely make the talk show circuit. Uh. But then I think that that I would try to utilize it in some form of medicine or medical procedure to execute medical procedures in a bloodless, cutless way that would dramatically help and improve the health of an individual without the evasiveness of tearing into the human body. Then once that's cracked, I'd profer it and teach it to every physician on the planet.
I like that, you know, And I can do that because I.
Can do it because I have telekinesis, so I can project it into their minds.
Absolutely, there's probably nothing you couldn't do. You know, it's there. We're approaching eight billion, and you'd have to take a few at a time, I think, maybe.
But still there's a lot of brain cells up there. We can knock it out to it at a time.
There you go. All right, So now what did you want to What did you want to do and grow up to be when you were five years old?
You know, a lot of kids loved dinosaurs, and I originally liked dinosaurs, but what I liked were the people studying dinosaurs. I thought superheroes were the archaeologists and there was this archaeologist. He died I believe in nineteen seventy four, seventy two or seventy four, but his name was Lewis Leaky and Lewis Leaky and his claim to archaeological fame was a great archaeological digs in the Oldowa Gorge in Africa and some of the earliest humanoids did the access.
He wasn't a rock star. He wasn't Indiana Jones that you remember the TV show Nova that would showcase scientists and yes, and he was on the first year of Nova was nineteen seventy four and he was, so he must have passed in seventy two. Novod's in seventy four and he was one of the very first exposes that they did. And he spoke with this great cross between a British and South African accent, and he did look the party, had gray hair and you know the tunic outfit.
And his wife was his partner and they were always on digs together. But the commitment and depth and seriousness of his communication style and pathway about what he was doing and why it was important, and he didn't he wasn't like a cheerleader raw raw but the intensity again reinforcing how important the work he was doing was to
us understanding ourselves today. I'm a five year old kid sitting there watching this from five to probably twenty, just really fascinated by the idea and the concept of learning about ourselves today by learning about our history before today.
Yeah. And I guess once you start scratching the surface on that, the more you start to know, the more you realize you don't know. And when you ignite that passion, you've got a lifetime hobby, You've got a lifetime endeavor, and maybe a career.
Who knows, And that really defines who I am as a business person today. Is that true commitment to continue improvement? I read, I research. I used to be the CEO of the Collecting Channel. I collect like twenty different categories, and I studied a lot about the collecting mentality of people who collect stuff. And I really have this, this commitment to myself to continue to learn, to get better, to get smarter, to help people, and populating our mind
with information is just a great speedway to that. Yeah.
Completely agree with you. I think you know on growth, ongoing growth and development, and tell you until you you know, move on to the next level. Is always about getting a better question. It's always about setting aside what you think you know in favor of what you're what you're about to take a chance on and learn.
You know, it's so funny that you say that, and I'll I will tork it a bit to say that that. I think what I find Bill is that I respect people's answers to questions, but I've come to the point of being more intrigued by their questions rather than the answers of questions. And you know, and that within it,
you know, pursuit of knowledge and thought. And yeah, I'll walk why I get excited, I'll walk out of this conversation with you, and I'm going to be a better smarter person because You've populated my mind with different points of view and vectors and perspectives that I didn't have before I had this call. And I wouldn't have if I didn't have this call.
It's a true story. And when we when we stepped back from life a little bit and you start to realize that all growth comes from having a better question, then it has to be who are you in conversation with? You've got to up your game with the folks that you're having conversation with, or you're not getting to the point of being stimulated to better.
Questions, right, absolutely, well sone.
So just you know, to kind of close off this this question, what did you think of Jurassic Park.
I loved it. I loved it. I completely thought that that that they captured something completely new. I just went when when when the lead archaeologist puts his hands on on his on his knees, as as the Alisaurus will walk by at the very beginning of the film, when Laura Dern had that affinity for the triceratops that was that had eaten the wrong berries and and she had that intimate connection with the animal, and then it took the deep sigh we all kind of felt all of that.
I thought. I thought it was a fabulous film visually story wise great, but I thought the connectivity of the characters, their dimensionality. You know, you had Jeff Goldbloom, which was just you know, chaotist, you know, a chaos theory person that the bloodsucking lawyer who was the only one that wanted to support Attinburgh. It was just I loved it, and I love obviously envious because I wish I could go to Jurassic Park this afternoon, because I wouldn't. I
would have missed this call. But I thought it was a fabulous that one of the best best films of its type ever. Yeah.
The neat part of all of those first of is that you get this stuff that just blows your mind.
Yeah.
I think it was like eight and a half seconds long, looking down into the valley with all of the animals trooping across. I got goose, I get goosebumps now about that? Right, that had never been able to be done before. It costs them millions of dollars and months worth of rendering time sure to make that happen. And uh, I mean
that's the way I remember the story. It's kind of like the Matrix where they introduced the new uh camera in order to get those stop actions as you know, all the way around the you know the actors and right, So what are that kind of thinking is just out of this world. It's a wonderful thing to at least behold and then to appreciate.
And it's it is stark to to to for the realization of how much industrial light and magic does of all special effects today and and not not just for for CBS, but but and CBS chacter properties, but for everybody. And they they did the Wolverine, uh, Deadpool on special effects, they did they did Jurassic Park that they really have
and they employ thousands of people. Interestingly, you know, you go through the end credits waiting for the Easter A in a Marvel film and you see thousands of digital artists because you say, you know, some of it is and with AI, we're getting faster and quicker at it being able to produce that. But the reality of it is to have that artistry and that beautiful visual I appeal, You got it. It takes time because it isn't it isn't just digital rendering. It really is art and digital production.
Yeah, I agree with you. It takes the thinking to conceive the outcomes of of what you're being you know, what's being generated in c g I, and be able to tell AI that this is what I'm looking for, and then to use it enough times to get the one that you choose. You know, pretty cool to be alive, right, no.
Doubt, absolutely, Eye candy is good.
So Mark, what's what would you say your greatest accomplishment is.
I would not say my daughter, because she is an individual and she's done it herself and heard her mom. I think the realization that I'm as comfortable with the two things that I'm good at in business as I am comfortable with the ninety nine thousand things I'm cruddy at in business.
Yeah, that's that's health, healthy and adult.
Well I something sounding, Yes, something had to be adult in my life.
Yeah, So what is that translated into for you? You know, being good at those two things, being totally satisfied that those are the two good things that you're that you're good at, and it gives you a chance to, you know, like maybe play in the other areas and be a failure at it. And it doesn't take any power from it.
Oh. I you know what, what I the one of the greatest blessings I have at this point in my career is that I'm a strategist. That's what I That's what I do, and so I take really complex situations, I simplify them, I normalize them, and I optimize them. That's that's it. And and and and that that that that is one of the two strengths that I had. The other strength is out of years of discipline of being a consultant. My number my number one, and a
realization within the realization is my number one. Any consultants number one value to their client is objectivity. But the every second you're with your client, you lose by definition, objectivity. And and if you if there comes a time where you cross that line and you've lost objectivity, you either need to join that company full time or stop being a consultant because you've lost the number one value bring down,
which is objectivity. So so the the the two strengths objectivity and strategy allows me to focus on those two things and and surround myself with people that are infinitely better at the other components of business execution and and and and and operations, and surround myself with people that I used to do them and I wasn't very good at it and I didn't like it. And now I have the you know, the comfort to say, here's my
two lanes and everything else. I'm just going to surround myself with really smart, wonderful, beautiful people that thrive at it, that do it well. Here's my lane, and I'm super comfortable with the rest.
I think that's a great way to go. And as a matter of fact, it's more cost effective, there's a lot less lost energy, and people just have more fun really.
Yeah right, yeah, And because of that, what I found out within myself is the minute I made that realization, and then that realization converted into a commitment, then it turned into a regiment, it turned into a routine, and therefore I reduced my waste and chaos of time and focus on doing things that I wasn't very good at and I was trying for whatever reason, and inwardly focus that to those two pillars, and it allowed those two pillars to become stronger because of that.
Folks, Yeah, it's your power point and it is no doubt what you're known for.
That's it.
So now that you've got all of this that you're leaning on very comfortably, who's your favorite person to listen to?
But voice tonality standpoint, which I know isn't your question. Vincent Price. I love the fact that Vincent Price grew was born and grew up in Saint Louis and had a British accent in his whole life and nobody ever said anything about it. But I don't always agree with him, maybe fifty percent of the time, but I love the way Elon Musk stirs things up and and he's a he's a very eloquent and thoughtful speaker. So you know, what is communication two things content delivery, what we say,
and how we say it. So, yeah, he does. He has good delivery, but the content and the the scope of the topics that he's talking about some trivial but import some macro, socioeconomic and dramatically important. But he's not afraid to stir things up at an unbelievably high level. And yeah, being the richest guy in a planet helps, but that's not what That's not what empowers him. What
empowers him is an inner strength and comfort. And so I really like to listen to Elon Musk what he says, and he always the best part of his communication style is he always delivers an opinion with rationale, not just opinion. Yeah, everybody has an opinion, but the rationale opens up the mind to have a greater level of understanding, maybe not acceptance, but of an understanding because you understand the costal factors.
Yeah, I agree with you. I think he believed brings an engineer's design discipline to constructing a sentence out of thin air. You can actually see him forming the words, you know, above his head like a run out. And I had a college professor, and then there was the CEO of a company that I worked for when I was very young, back in my twenties and early thirties,
and they did the exact same thing. They would They would create the sentence in a language that was listenable and understandable by every last person in the room, and they made sure they were leaving no one behind and no one was getting bored. And I think he's a master at doing that sort of thing, plus coming up with really kind of disruptive and innovative ideas on the fly. He just seems to like generate that for a guy who doesn't sleep very much very often, let alone very much.
It's remarkable to me. And he always performs at an extremely high level. And he never backs down, right, but I will change his mind, but he never backs down.
And he and he and he goes on Joe Rogan and he goes to the World Cup and he's a he's a regular person. He just happens to get there on a private plane. But he it's not like he's cloistered in Ivory Tower anywhere he lives life.
Yeah, I agree with you, Mark, And I've said for a dozen years or so, without referencing Elon, but with other people I've said, I just dare you to tell me that people that are on the spectrum are handicapped. They are not. Okay, They're dealing at a different frequency than you and I are. And I'll tell you what They're going to find our frequency before we find theirs, and when they do, get out of the way, right,
It's an amazing thing to watch without question. Yeah, So I share obviously your passion in several of these different areas and even the silver and black. But so complete this sentence for me, if you will. When I grow up, I'd like to.
I would like to never forget the whimsy and wonder of being a kid, the fantasy to make leave there the true essence of uninhibited creation, which hopefully will continue to drive bewilderment and innovation throughout our life. But never forget that wonder and whimsy of of of make believe in makeup.
I love it. I'm going to translate back to you for a moment. What I'm hearing is that the childlike innate curiosity that never regards something that's not working as a problem. They always look at it as something to get better at and something to kind of understand is something to try and walk away with more than they started with. Every single time they fail until we tell them that failing is a bad idea.
Yeah, you you your paraphrase definitely is in the right direction. In vector, you used a term I thought maybe about the design I thought you were going to say design thinking. I don't know what happened to design thinking. It is the smartest business approach on the planet. We kind of lost our way with it during the pandemic because we
lost our way with everything on the pandemic. But I truly believe that adopting a design taking mentality, the concept and construct of failure doesn't exist because it truly is continue improvement, growth and evolution, bringing insight and intelligence into into the infrastructure, creation, adapting, evolving, growing, learning and expanding, and and that that that's that's that's really the way that I that I operate our business structure on all the companies.
I like that. And having come up through manufacturing when we were you know, getting uh you know, uh, our our statistical quality control brought back to us from the Japanese after they transformed their country ten years ahead of us. Uh, when we started learning about combine and uh you know better, uh better this time than last kind of a philosophy. We're always looking for some kind of a marginal improvement.
The design thinking was planted out ahead of time, so you at least know when to stop, you know, right, If you keep going and you don't know that you've hit a failure point, every energy that you're going to put put into the thing from here on is just wasted time. You have to have these you know, time fences and gates that you go through in order to say did we accomplish what we thought we were going to did we learn anything from that? Now? What can we do in the next step sort of a thing?
And that way you know you're being responsible, right and accountable?
Now, well, that question, it's so funny. You put a spile on my face because and I found it interesting that part of your question isn't what you do or what your career has been or what because it's really academic, and I understand that's not part part of the study.
But I do have to tell you that I started my career at prok and Gamble, and I was there as a child of Deming and Total Quality There you go as a as a as a global initiative, and we were all impacted by TQM and total quality manufacturing and total quality is a is a as a mindset and again not unlike design thinking that lost its way to what to whatever, unbelievably important foundation points that I use every single day of my life.
Yeah, I was fortunate enough to work with a man named Paul Krensky who was one of Demming's disciples over in Japan and came back and brought you know, the whole statistical quality control. He worked with the man I don't remember who wrote it that quality is Free. It's been such a long time since I read that book, going back into the nineteen seventies or early eighties. But the whole idea of if you can measure it and you can see it, then you can produce, you know,
an improvement to the system. If you don't, you're pretty much screwed. And you you know, it's luck of the draw.
You can't have improvement without measurement. And that's one of those those unbelievably simple idioms that need to be a comitment, you know, a movement within an organization. But it's just simple and smart. It's just it's just really simple. And I'll tell you Bill, hopefully I'll put another smile on your face. When I was at P and G, I was I was a part of a group that that that that worked on brand but also organizational development things
within the company. And I got to spend a lot of time with Stephen Covey, who was the shortest, most intense, in your face human I've ever met my life. I I I don't read sales or marketing or motivation books, and and there's a reason behind that. But I did read Seven Habits by the Successful People and in there, and it is brilliant, and it's brilliant today, and it's as it's as relevant today as the Old Testament's relevant today.
And and but but I I did have a have an opportunity to spend a good deal of time with him, and he was a hoop.
That's it was something I am envious of you. I've I've studied uh Covey for I'm the better part of thirty years. I don't remember what year in the nineties that seven habits came out, but I thought to myself, this is so freaking simple. You know, it takes somebody who's really awake and thinking to write this stuff down. And I think the most powerful thing beyond you know, begin with the end in mind, and you know, listen first to understand and then to be understood. That's cool stuff.
But the four quadrant philosophy being able to take something and ask questions about it and place it in one of four quadrants, so you can say this quadrant's a throwaway. We do nothing in that quadrant at all if it's in there. If it pops up in one of the other quadrants later on, we'll take a look at it. I shamelessly stole those ideas and I used it in my businesses, and I also used it when I was consulting with people.
I mean it was it was published originally in eighty nine, and I think the fifth of the seven is the most profound. And you're right. I mean, you have to have to step back, you have to be uncluttered, but seem to understand before you understood. So simple and so effective, hard hard to discipline yourself to that point, but so smart, so so super super smart and as I said, what's not relevant in twenty twenty five, be proactive, begin with
the end in mind, be put first things first. It worked together, I think he I don't know whether he created the term centergize, but he used the verb centators. Just those seven points just really quarterstones of not just business, but how to manage yourself as you as you interact with people in a business environment.
I agree with you, and I think it was like the on ramp to having conversations in which there didn't need to be winners and losers in those days, because most people were speaking to make a point and they didn't really care. They just wanted to fill the air with their thoughts when they had an opportunity to say things, and rarely was it about constructing something that was really good for the group or good for the other people.
But when you decide I'm going to listen to you fully, it costs me nothing and there's nothing for me to win or lose here. However, I could gain some understanding and maybe we make a better world or a better factory or better marriage.
You know, without question, I agree.
We could probably make up a whole bunch more questions here but what would you say, mark is the most important thing in life to you right now?
Selfishly, I would say my family. I'm referenced earlier in our conversation. But if I take a little more holistic for you, I think that what I'm troubled with and spended a lot of time thinking and talking to you about, is that we as a country need to start uniting after so many years of division. And I have this theory that that which gets politicized gets polarized, and that
which gets polari it gets paralyzed. We don't get anything done, and we're making some unbelievable technological advancements, but from a societal standpoint, we're missing out on unbelievable opportunity that's present
in front of us. And I think that that we have to stop dividing, whether it's on a party, whatever that division is, and start uniting as people and uniting is is a country and is a big old tribe, and really start slowing down and caring for that person that's across the street that you don't really know and you probably won't ever know, but understanding that they're humans
and they should be cared for. And and so I think that for me that again, on that more holistic, less selfish standpoint, I think it's what's most important in life right now is for all of us to start thinking about uniting and caring.
I like that to just to a great degree. Have you got a methodology or has anything kind of come up for you that sounds like it might be a good way forward for action steps and things that can be done to you know, bring that into being in our culture.
Yeah, yes, it's surfacing the topic. It's a very arresting topic. It's not offensive, but when it's a it's it's it's a it's a very arresting topic. People were running so fast COVID. I mean I just talked to you why I love COVID. Of course COVID was the devil. I hate COVID, but it did progress in it of all of us. It's in interesting ways. Before people were trying to go digital, you didn't go digital. During COVID, you didn't get anything done.
Uh you know, there were change agents in companies. As physicians today we're all we can accommodate change better now
than we've ever accommodated change. But just stopping the conversation the topical conversation and articulating the idea, especially in the middle of it, either a heated conversation or an important conversation, whether it's a religious conversation, a political conversation, a sports conversation, and just talking about the concept of how pressure is it is that we have each other and that we need to unite rather than divide, just surfacing the topic.
I do it often, and I've never had anybody argue that it's not a good, good process. We just don't think about it enough because we've lost our way. Because that which gets politicized gets polarized, in that which gets polarized gets paralyzed. That's where we're at. I truly believe that, and everything, especially with the lockdowns and the things that happened societally for the lockdowns, everything became so divided and vicious that that we for we really were. I fundamentally
believe people are good. People are very very good. Some can manage outside an internal stimuli us better than others, but we all have the same capacity. You can't feel more happiness than I can. You do it in a different way. I can't feel more pain than you can. I feel it in a different way. But if you normalize it, it's all one hundred percent. It's we're all equal and regardless of race or color, or creed or history or background or last name, regardless of that, there
is a that is a normalizing factor. And if that's our point of origin, which it is, you can't defute it. You can't turn your back on it. And if it is our point of origin, then it's a it's a rationale for unity.
I love the most important thing in life for you right now, and I agree with you, and i'm your partner, and I also want you to know that there are people that have to be taught how to get interested in the conversation, possibly you know, to the point where they would listen, right, you know. Look the way that we're constructing our human beings these days, and what we're putting into their head and what we're allowing them to do to damage themselves. There's a lot of work to
be done here. So it's it's it's easy, but it's it's simple, but it's not easy, right right.
And and so you and I met through a mutual uh business and personal association through Eric and and Eric is part of an organ a peer to peer community that I'm that that I'm involved with, and he Eric is often and others within the organization have heard me use terms that aren't normally associated with business. I talk about loving what you do and loving what you're committed to, and if you're an investor, loving what you're investing in.
Yes, and I.
Talk a lot about a lot about the the idea that that we we have to to, you know, unbridle the part that restricts us from evolution and growth by being open minded and open hearted. I talk about being a is this evangelist, which is an arresting topic, but people seem to find it interesting. I'm also a business zello. I mean business is in part of that conform is is, you know, part of our society that makes us click. And so I you know, I'm my favorite catalyst. I like it.
And I'll tell you what. These are fundamentals that we didn't get growing up in high school. These are fundamentals that we should I think we should be teaching second and third graders about the value of competition, about the value of doing your best all the time, you know, just just for today, do the best that you can, just for today, you know, And then let tomorrow take care of tomorrow. We'll do the best you can tomorrow
if that's possible. But there's no reason in the world why you wouldn't go out there and challenge yourself to honor the fact that you're here by accident or maybe you're here by design. But why don't you choose one of them and use that as a damn good reason to do the best you can in your life.
Yeah, I think it's our I use a word earlier. I think it's our duty to do exactly what you just said. I think it's our duty we're given. If you're given opportunity, it's your duty to use it, not to squander it. I I'm I'm I lived to that conviction.
So here we are. We've we've we've set the ideal. What would you like to leave in the world after your life is done?
Well? I have a couple legacy points which answer and facilitate your question kind of in a different way. And one of the companies that I have we produce rock and roll music and science fiction film. And I take a big you know you reference what I do to waste time, and I said video games, and I love I love movies. I take entertainment really seriously, especially the music we produce and the films we produce, because it's because it is such entertainment is a critical part of
of balance. And so I hope you know that some of the music that I produce, the films I produce, will live forever in a digital world, and I hope people will continue to enjoy them and be entertained by them long after I'm gone, so that I have a physical legacy within the entertainment world that I have aspiration will continue to put smile on people's faces for a long time.
That's fantastic, It's it's I think you've done a great job of putting into words why people are in that the entertainment industry. Many of them could not articulate it as well as you just did, But if you ask them, a lot of them just would just basically say, what else would I do? Right? Right?
Sure? Absolutely? And I'm privileged to a pre production production, post production people, artists, talent, musicians. I'm just surrounded by I couldn't play a note. I couldn't I can't humm a tomb. I'm a business person that happens toab An Erpack came a company, and I manage as a business person, not as an entertainment company. But I had been the had the privilege and been so honored by so much talent around me and Bill. I'm a fanboy period. I'm
a fanboy. I love consuming what we create. I love I love watching it, listening to it. And because of that those legacy points, I hope, I hope people will continue to entertain and put smiles on people's faces for a really long time.
Thank you very much. There's no doubt in my mind the people you're associated with who are here after you're gone are going to be saying, what would Mark do you know? Or I can hear Mark's voice in my head. There's no doubt in my mind that you make an imprint on some great people. So the baker's question, I like to go to the bakery because my particular baker, she is a fantastic gall If I buy a dozen
of anything, she always gives me a free one. I think this was something they've brought over from the old country, right right, right, So your your banker's question is, uh, what is the thing that most people misunderstand about you?
Well, I'll answer from the as I said, I'm a strategist and I'm a consultant, and I think that as consultant, I try to maintain objectivity, especially as I'm consulting a company, and the way that that objectivity services itself. And I think that where people misunderstand is the idea that my client is not the CEO or a C suite member. My client is the overall good of the company. And when someone brings me in, they're the ones to sign the check. They're the ones that you know, approved and
created the gateway. They often have that sense of ownership and in connection, and I definitely build try to build meaningful business relationships. But at the end of the day, as a consultant, I'm not serving an individual or group of individuals. My focus and fairness is on the good of the company. And sometimes folks don't like that because
they we like preferential treats. But my and I found that if I lived that, not only can I honor, respect, and perform for my clients, but I can also put my head on a pillow and sleep at night.
I appreciate that, and you kind of sparked some thoughts in my mind. Do you ever find yourself working across the table from people who are asking you to go out and fix their thirty five hundred employees.
Yes, and.
What's your response to that?
So, Yeah, I happen to really respect and this is you know, this has been a very interesting conversation. We reflected and talked about some really important organization development ideas over the last thirty years. Chain of command is something that you know, at one point the structure and Rigoro
chain expand work. Then the world wanted a flat organization because every one of what I happen when you're trying to disseminate from an organizational development standpoint, when you're trying to affect positive change, when you're trying to create cultural movement, when you're trying to redirect the focus of the energy of the company outwardly to an inward focus. You need that to be a systemic, enterprise wide event and a movement,
if you will. So the only way to manage that isn't to have the cheerleader CEO or the cheerleader or chief HR. It's got to work through the organization, through the organizational structure. And so and the way that I build that into the program is I don't have a team. An internal panel of just the senior executives identify. If there's a company has four organizational ranks, if they have ten,
doesn't matter. I get representatives from each organizational rank and they they set on the panel and they give input and insights and intelligence. They and it's not necessarily a vote, it's insights and intelligence. Because my responsibility is the outsiders. The objective person is the business alchemist of merging science and art. It's my responsibility to take those input inputs, filter them and then build something sustainably through that's going
to positively affect the company. And so but what I do is I make sure that the people that I select for each organization level are good verbal communicators and they have a voice within their peer group. So and we enroll the organization for the first day, I engage. I speak to representatives throughout the organization the first day
and tell them what's going to happen. Because everybody you bring someone like myself in, some people are happy, some people are afraid, some people are energized, some people are worried. Is this a clever way of of headcount reduction? Is you know, am I going to lose my job. All
of those things are real. And the way that you fight that and you and you create a medium for positive growth and evolution is directness, openness, and honesty and seeking to understand before you understood number five and seven and so share you listen to the people and make sure the organization knows you're listening to the totality of the organization. You're going to take those insights and inputs in and reflect that in the work that we do.
And that that's the mechanism that I rely on to to ensure that we have system wide embracing of whatever we create.
Fantastic. Yeah, that's a I have a candid question that I always ask after somebody asked me to fix their organization.
What's that?
How long do you want me to take to show you that you're the problem?
You know? Some very often times you know what what I I uphemize advice? What are the ceiling points? And and very often, very often it's management and it's it's senior leadership or it's a CEO, or very often it is And that's why I now I have a team where I have there So there's there's three levels that we we we we attempt to serve the a or a company that's that's focusing on organization development, and there's
and there's Number one is is CEO to CEO. I've had the privilege of having over seventy five established large corporation one on one CEO consultancy relationships in my career, So I'm pretty comfortable talking to anybody about anything. What my CEO consultation practice, which we don't promote because a lot of CEOs don't want to tell people that they have this type of insight the outside. But I'm not
a coach. I help them make the most difficult decisions of their of their of their that they're facing that day and and again, so you don't necessarily promote that. The second level is c suite. So I have an unbelievably gifted person that is really get really really special at it's at leadership alignment. And then I have another operational person who former retired captain of the Navy, who is the operationalized person that ensures that every person in the organization is possibly impacted.
But we we.
Don't go to an engagement and do one or two of those three. Part of the deal, part of the ticket part of the process, part of the invoice is if we don't manage communication points with all three of those audiences, there will it will never it might be sold in, it will never be executed in. It it won't positively impact the company. And I've learned that over time. And therefore what the what you outline bill is it's always somebody group of somebodies. So the only way that
you ensure that you optimize it is full coverage. And that and and I don't have the patience to manage c suite. I don't have the patience to manage the rest of the organization. I deal with the CEO, and I have two individuals that are gifted. If those other two audiences that are critically get evolution.
Done, yeah, you you can't leave it to the chain of command to change the culture. They have to get You have to get the informal leaders at every level, in every part of the organization to buy into it. And then they are they become the trim tabs for change. They're that that little part of the writer that is so small, but it turns the Queen Mary right, and she would she would take many four miles to get there.
One of the things that I adopted subveral years ago was a a prenatal approach. Prenatal me as an approach to consulting. What does that mean? One of the hardest worst parts in life is sometimes bad things happen. And before doctors really didn't talk to people about the bad things has happened. They reacted to it when they happened.
And then there was a movement about fifteen twenty years ago where very hard conversations were began so it wouldn't be this titanic blow to someone when bad news happens, and so they talk about all options, not just the good, not just the bad, to all options, here's what might happen. And I had that conversation with the senior leadership team, and I determine how they reacted to that, and I say,
here's probably what's going to happen. And someone's going to be painful, and someone's going to be on you and someone's going to be on her. But this is how we're going to get it done. And if they are receptive to that, then we consider engaging. If they aren't, then I move on because it's not going to work. I'm not going to do anything for a fee just
to to you know, collect the fee. We we spend a significant amount of due diligence time making sure there's compatiblyon and fit in what we see that the organization direction should be and the team of people that need to live it and breathe in and execute it upon operational engagement.
It sounds terrific to me, Mark, I really appreciate that. That's the end of our regular questions. Do you have any questions for me?
So? Are are you? The one one question that that that I continue to think about is are you creating any type of correlation or any type of directional summary for the questions and interviews in totality or are these living breathing organisms that live on their own uh as as separate units.
I think it's a great question looking ahead. We did this in such a way that it's not going to be a poll. Okay, right, These are open ended questions. No two people are going to answer these seemingly straightforward questions the same way. But at the end of the day we'll be able to use AI to grab some correlations out of all of the data. Basically tell us you know, is there something that you know is that supports the whole identity culture or are human beings fundamentally
the same as you and I were saying earlier. They just express themselves differently in a group, and in many cases they make their choices not for either livelihood reasons or anything else. Maybe it's just to be accepted or to feel loved or all that kind of stuff. We're going to find out what we find out at the end. But I'm amassing a load of information. You're my I think forty first interview out of one hundred, and I'm
very pleased to have had you here. I really wanted to do to dive in here and do two things. One is to learn to be a better a better listener, a better interviewer. That was my selfish goal. And then the second, you know, to ask better questions, deeper questions
that people could really sink their teeth into. And then the other thing is is that when folks listen to these played back, Because I've got the gamut, I've got every kind of person that you can think of so far, and I can only imagine what we've got less left in the next next sixty Sure someone's gonna hear somebody who says something that makes a difference in their life right now today. I'm that's my goal, right, that's that? Yeah, got it? That's good. That's that's really smart. I like
that a lot. That that that is of noble pursuit. What else would I do? Well, Mark, thank you again? Anything else to wrap up, anything you'd like to say about the experience or anything else it's on your mind.
Great questions, great interaction. Uh, you know, the best presentation isn't a presentation, it's a conversation. And the way that you craft this and you manage it, it's we had a conversation. It wasn't an interview. We just had a chat. And as I said, you know, I kind of made that promise to myself and have now selfishly fulfilled the fact that you know, you've helped me think about things in different ways that I haven't thought about before and
I'm a better person for it. So I thank you for that.
I agree with you, and I thank you right back. And kind of like you know, Elon and Joch having a chat right.
Only we didn't include any any uh digital pigs in the conversation. No digital pigs were engaged.
In this exactly, but and no f bombs, right right right. So with with all of that, I'm going to wrap it up. Folks at home. We are Simple Questions for one hundred people, and I'm Bill Correll and Mark. It's been my pleasure to have you here, mister Mark Alan Stewart, Ladies and gentlemen, have a great day.
Thank you. Bill.
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