Alright, let's cut all this out, because we're losing my brother in a heart attack.
Oh my god. Holy shit. Yeah, you have to take this, because I can't. Oh my God.
So is this gonna be the thing we use at the commercial for this show?
Just fricking dying during a horror movie. What the hell are we talking about? Alright, you are definitely gonna have to listen ahead to find out what the heck we were laughing about. This episode will go down in history as the episode where my brother nearly killed me. Before we jump in I just wanted to address a couple things. A few episodes ago you heard us talking about doing something on Clubhouse.
That's been put on hold because Clubhouse had this whole revamp of their app and it's, it's kind of a mess so I don't know that we're gonna do it. If we do we will let you know. Keep, uh, keep listening and keep watching our social media feeds. In other news, we're doing some experimentation with video, so be on the lookout. We're going to be doing some video for our social and possibly turn this into a video podcast. So I'm excited about it.
Hopefully that'll be something we'll be able to launch after the new year. Well, that's all the time I'm going to take here. I'm going to get the film reel going so you can listen to our show. And while I do, let me just ask you, if you're enjoying it, please share it with someone and let us know that you did. All right. We are back to the Silver Screen Happy Hour. This is part two of Silence of the Midsommar.
So, if you haven't listened to part one yet, you should, because we, uh, started drinking at the beginning of that show.
So this is going to be interesting because I just started my third one. And, and, I mean, you know, I mean, it's not like, I didn't drink three in an hour, you know, we've been here a long time.
Now, I tried a bottle of Chianti in honor of Hannibal Lecter, and I didn't like it at all. I'm almost done with the bottle.
He's getting ready to switch to beer. This is not going to be a good night for you, Jer.
I have beer backups. I have children.
I told him, don't switch. Don't mix wine and beer.
Oh, that stuff doesn't affect me. You know our bloodline. Come on.
The bloodline. The bloodline that's, uh .15.
Yeah, exactly. You drink my... When mosquitoes bite me, they get pulled over for drunk driving.
They just crash.
They fucking crash into trees and shit. That's what happens. When mosquitoes suck my blood.
Holy crap, let's get this on track.
So if you're joining us now, we were in the middle of
Silence of the Lambs is going to be the best one yet, because we're both half in the bag.
And not only that, it's my so those of you who have listened to my podcast, you already know how I feel about this movie, alright? I'm going to say it again for those who are listening for the first time. Which, if you're listening for the first time, stop and go back to part one of the show. So you can hear us talk about Midsommar. Oh my god. But, here we are.
Brace yourself. It's such a rough movie, but from a, uh, filmmakers, I'm not a filmmaker, but I'm a film appreciator. From a, I mean, a filmmaking point of view, it was frickin genius.
Yes, it's phenomenal.
But it was so hard to watch, so, anyway.
It's phenomenal.
We're about to move on to the next movie that we intended to do in the last episode. And, uh,
Yes! Uh, so.
You may never, ever have heard of it, um, you know.
It's, it's a little scene, little known of film from 1991 called Silence of the Lambs, which by contrast to Midsommar, Won five Academy Awards. And it's the last.
It was recognized in it's day.
Yes, it won Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor, Best Actress. The last to win the four top. And then it also won Best Screenplay. Now, we did our podcast on, um, Everything, Everywhere, All at Once. And I remember saying that it's more Oscar decorated than Silence of the Lambs. And it's true, because it won three acting categories. Now, it wasn't Best Picture, Best Director, Actor, and Actress. But it was Best Picture, Best Actor, Best Actress... Oh, I'm sorry.
Ugh, God, the wine is getting to me. Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actress, and then Best Supporting Actor and Best Supporting Actress on top of it. And Screenplay! So, so I remember, I remember saying on our podcast then, if you haven't listened to it, listen to that too. Our Everything Everywhere, All Is One podcast, which we dedicated an entire show to that one too, didn't we?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, that was more highly decorated than Silence of the Lambs, but until that film, Silence of the Lambs was considered, in our lifetime anyway, the most, I mean, depending on how old you are, 1975's One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, won Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor, Best Actress, and then you gotta go all the way back to the way What did we say? Was it 1941? Mm. Or something like that? Uh, or, or 1938 or something?
It happened one night with, uh, Clark Gable and Claudette Colbert. Best picture, best director, best actor, best actress. Only three films have done it. Silence of the Lambs is the last to do it. And it inspired me to be a writer. So before we get on to the story, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you a smaller story. I don't know if I told this on a previous podcast, but we definitely earned it today. My fri I was, uh, 15 years old. Hadn't yet turned 16. This is 1991, early.
This is February. By the way, Silence of the Lambs was, was released on Valentine's Day. Of 1991. Again, let me illustrate the, the date movie nature of this film.
You're right. Oh my god.
So it had been out. Very briefly, I want to say maybe a week had gone by, and my friends were like, Dude, let's go see this movie. And I had no intention of seeing it. Now, keep in mind, I had not seen any billboards, I had not seen any trailers, I had not seen any TV spots, I knew nothing about it. I thought it was about farming. I thought it was another boring ass, three hour movie, like, out of Africa. And I'm like, Silence of the Lambs? No, I don't want to see that. No, I don't. Not that.
That doesn't sound interesting at all. And my friends are like, oh come on, we gotta go see it. So a bunch of us went in a couple different cars and we all went to the Showcase Cinema back then on, what was it, 15 Mile in Van Dyke? In Warren? Was it 15 or 16? It was 15, wasn't it? No, it was 15 Mile, yeah. 15 Mile in Van Dyke. Showcase Cinema. Oh boy! So, uh, it's not there anymore, is it?
They tore that shit down. No, it's another theater, but it's not in the same spot. They tore it down and started over.
Wait, it was Sterling Heights, not Warren.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yep. I also saw True Romance. Yeah. At that theater.
You know what's funny? I was with a friend of mine in the theater, and I saw the big billboard for True Romance. And I, and I, I think it was you that told me how good it was. Oh, hell yeah. And I said... We gotta go see that, that looks awesome. And it was Christian Slater and, and, uh, Patricia Arquette laying, it was a, it was a, like a banner sign. Yeah. And they're laying on top of each other. And it says, True Romance. And my friend goes, What? I'm not watching that movie with you.
Now, let me preface this by saying, back then we used slurs that are not acceptable today.
Yeah, right, right, right.
He called me a few of those slurs for wanting to go see what he perceived to be a romance. This film with him and I'm like, and I was like, no, no, you got it all wrong. This is like an action film. So okay. So there it is.
It happened a lot because it was funny when I went alone and then it's also funny, like is it a date movie? I mean, could you imagine all the date people that went on dates? Hey, your romance movie. Let's go watch it.
Look.
Oh, you emptied the bottle.
The, the, the, the Chianti, which again, if you weren't listening to the first part of this, this was a $5.97 clearance bottle of Chianti at CVS Pharmacy, and I took the first sip and I thought I was going to die. Because I'm not a wine drinker, and this is a cheap ass version of a wine, and here it is, my last glass.
It was only three glasses, right?
There's four.
Oh, okay. You got a heavy pour there.
I can't My heart is like, okay, red wine's good for us, but you're overdoing it, sir. You're overdoing it. All right, so we're getting way off topic here. So I went to it out, but we'll go for it. Showcase Cinema To see Sons of Lambs with my friends, had no intention of seeing it, didn't want to see it, didn't know what it was about. They dragged me into this thing, and you know what the funny thing is? I have since texted friends of mine.
Or emailed them through, uh, Messenger, Facebook Messenger, And said, I have this vivid memory of this, but for the life of me I can't remember who it was. Was it you? Was it you? And my friends were all like, I, I don't think so. And then one friend was like, yeah that sounds like something I would do. So here's what happened. So, we go and we watch the movie. Yeah. I am just balls in, right? Just all, I am just enthralled, just dialed.
We get out of the theater, the credits go, and we get out, and back at that time, everybody wanted to go to National Coney Island on Van Dyke, right? That's where you went after a movie to eat, you know, the gyro sandwiches or the honeys, the chicken honeys or whatever. And everyone's like, yeah, let's go to National, that's just what we called it, National, let's go to National. I was like, I gotta watch this movie again. I'm going back in line. And I'm buying a ticket for the next show.
That's amazing.
And I'm watching this again, and I had no ride like I, like I had no car. I should say I had no car. You're like, I'll figure it out. There was like three cars among seven or eight of us. Right? And one of my friends said, you know what, fuck it. I'll stay. I'll watch it. I'll drive you home So I can't even remember who it was that I was with. That's crazy, huh. But, but anyway, we stayed for another show. We watched another showing of Silence of the Lambs back to back.
Yeah, that's amazing.
And when I left the theater that night... I went home knowing I had decided at that point at 15 years old, by the way, for anyone that's saying how did you get into the movie, back then in Michigan, nobody carded for movies, okay, if you looked like you were 18, if you looked like you were in high school, you got into the movie, okay, there was no carding, nobody carded back then, nobody gave a shit.
I didn't realize you were that young.
I was 15 years old. And at that point, I knew I wanted something to do with the movies, and I wanted to be a writer. Like, that's, that's, that was the movie, this is the movie that inspired me. People always ask me all the time, what's your favorite movie? I always say Star Wars, because it is. But then I always stop and say, wait, wait, wait. The movie that inspired me to be a writer? Was Silence of the Lambs. This movie has certain I have a special place in my heart for this movie.
So I was excited for this day. We wasted a lot of time building up to it. But, fuck, if you're gonna hear it, you gotta know everything, right? So, um, ha,ha,ha, where the fuck do we begin? Alright, so, we always talk about writing structure. By the way, this film won Best Adapted Screenplay. It was adapted from the 1988 book of the same name. Okay. For anyone that doesn't know the history of this character, Thomas Harris, the novel writer, wrote several books.
One of them was called Red Dragon, which got made in the 80s into a film called Manhunter by Michael Mann. If you know the name Michael Mann, you know that he is the creator of Miami Vice. And did movies like Collateral with Tom Cruise. He's a very stylized director and he turned Red Dragon into Manhunter, which was in Miami Vice version of Hannibal Lecter, Brian Cox played Hannibal Lecter in the film. In fact, I even want to say that Lecter, the name Lecter was misspelled in the credits.
There was a K in there instead of a C. Um, and, but pretty graphic, pretty graphic, uh, film. Did fairly well at the box office. But until the success of Silence of the Lambs, the movie that we're about to talk about, all of a sudden there was an all new found love. For this, they ended up remaking Red Dragon, as Red Dragon, with, uh, Rafe, Rafe Fiennes as the murderer, and, uh, Edward Norton played the cop.
Now, Red Dragon's very similar to Sounds of Lambs as far as story, but Hannibal Lecter remained Hannibal Lecter, and they got Anthony Hopkins to reprise his role. He, of course, then was in the sequel, Hannibal. In fact, I want to say Hannibal came out first, before Red Dragon. Hannibal came out first. Hannibal was the sequel, the direct sequel to Silence of the Lambs. They couldn't get Jodie Foster. And they couldn't get Jonathan Demme.
Um, so I think they got, uh, Ridley Scott directed Hannibal, and they got Julianne Moore to play Clary Starling. Um, but they did get Anthony Hopkins. And, uh, while Hannibal is very, very interesting, on the edge of your seat thriller, I'm going to mention something later about Ray Liotto, who's in that film, is forced to eat his own brains by Hannibal Lecter. I'm going to mention that in a minute. Um, um. That's sequel Hannibal and the Edward Norton film Red Dragon.
And now they've made TV series about Hannibal. It has spawned off into an entire franchise.
Yeah, I haven't followed any of that stuff, but...
Yeah, it's all very good. It's all interesting. But nothing comes close to Silence of the Lambs. So, the 1991 film Silence of the Lambs is really the pinnacle. I think it's the best film of the 90s. It's one of, in my opinion, the greatest films of all time. Which, you hear me right now, and it's not the Chianti talking. Hannibal Lecter's escape scene is up there with the baptism scene of the Godfather as one of the greatest scene sequences of all time. If you have not seen this film...
You have to. You have to. You have to see this film. If you've seen The Godfather, you have to see Silence of the Lambs and Hannibal Lecter's
and by the way, there's going to be spoilers. I mean, if you haven't seen it by now...
Sorry, can't do nothing for ya. Pause it. Go watch it. I mean, come on. It's about time. If you haven't seen it, shame on you! My God! The film is a marvel. But anyway, okay, so, we talk, again, we talked about this with Midsommar. Basic screenwriting. And this is, this is another one of the things I love about this script. We've talked before on another podcast where I said, uh, Know the rules before you break them, right? Uh, when we trashed that Mel Gibson movie. Uh, right?
What the fuck was that movie called? On the Radio?
On the Line.
So, On the Line. God, what a terrible movie. I don't remember.
There's two of them, right? No, I'm confused.
Um, anyway, I think it's On the Line. Uh, we talked about how they break screenwriting rules, but not in a good way, right? They break them because they're just terrible. Silence of the Lambs, uh, follows that theory that you have to know the rules before you break them, which means that you're not necessarily breaking them, you're just shifting them a little bit, right? Midsommar does the same thing.
So we always talk about the beginning when you open a film, you see your main character at work, at home, at play, whatever, you set up their normal life before something crazy happens. Midsommar flips that. The movie opens with tragedy, and then, uh, Silence of the Lambs does the same thing. It opens with, uh, and again, she's on the training course at, in Quantico, Virginia, she's an FBI, uh, trainee, right?
And she gets pulled off the course to go meet with Jack Crawford, who's played by Scott Glenn. And right off the bat, he sends her on this errand to go interview Hannibal Lecter. Now, we haven't known her at all. We haven't met her. We don't know anything about her. Five fucking minutes in, and she's meeting with Hannibal Lecter. Like, we don't even know. We're caught off guard, like, right off the bat, like, Holy shit, this can't be act two already, is it? No, no, no, no, no. They're just...
Reshifting the standards of screenwriting, right? They don't give you a chance to relax. And both Midsommar and Silence of the Lambs do this for that exact purpose. They don't want the audience to feel comfortable yet. It sets the tone of uncomfortable to start the movie off. Because if there's anything more uncomfortable... Then Clarice's meeting with Hannibal Lecter. Tell me what it is because I don't know.
And you find out in those first few minutes there's a serial killer on the loose also. Yes. That they want to solve that crime.
Trivia.
And that's basically why she's going to see Hannibal Lecter.
I have trivia for you. Yeah. When Clarice goes into Jack Crawford's office. Uh, Crawford played by Scott Glenn. He's not there yet. She's waiting for him. She turns around and she sees all the pictures on the wall. She sees news clippings. The camera zooms or, or, or kind of like pulls down where you see all these photos and you see a newspaper clipping on the wall with a big headline that says, bill Skin's fifth. Have you read the article?
No.
You can, because the camera's close enough. So if you pause it, you can read the article. Oh, it has nothing to do with h uh, Buffalo Bill.
Really?
You know what it ha you know what it has to do with
what?
Hannibal Lecter.
Oh, weird.
It says Bill Skins 5th, but the entire article is about Lecter's arrest. And it ends with a quote Lecter gave prosecutors as he was being handcuffed and shackled off. Something about, the truth will come out, these are all lies, bon appétit.
Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho.
So, next time you watch Sons of Lambs, pause it and read that article. It has nothing to do with Buffalo Bill. And the funny thing is, at the end of the movie, that clipping is in Buffalo Bill's basement.
That's wild.
But the headline is Bill Skins Fifth, and that's what audience members see. Right? That's what we see as an audience.
Yeah, we don't read it.
We assume it's another article about Buffalo Bill.
Yeah, we're not gonna read it. Yeah. Until we get the technology to pause it.
Right. So the information is that Buffalo Bill is a serial killer on the loose. And, Hannibal Lecter is known as "Hannibal the Cannibal", because he killed people and ate them. And he's in custody, he's been in custody for eight years. And, Clarice Starling is a trainee at the FBI Academy, and Jack Crawford sends her on this errand to interview Lecter. I have to tell you that right off the bat, the first five minutes in, Jack Crawford is very brilliant in this move.
And he knows that Lecter knows Buffalo Bill. There is no evidence of that. But I believe it to be true because something that, uh, he says. Jack Crawford tells her, if he's, I don't expect him to cooperate with you. But if he doesn't, check around his cell. Is he drawing? Is he sketching? If he is, what's he sketching? He tells her that flat out. And then he drops the theme of the movie on her. Are you ready for the theme? Be very careful with Hannibal Lecter. Do not tell him anything personal.
Believe me, Starling, you do not want Hannibal Lecter inside your head. He lays that on her in the first five minutes. What the fuck does she do for the rest of the movie?
Right? I know, right?
So, but what's, but what, but let's set this up. What's her tangible goal? Her tangible goal is to just, I just want to be involved. She even says that later in the film. I just want to be in on it, that's all. You know what I mean? Like, I just want to be a part of it. I just want to help. But we all know her spiritual goal, which she does not know she needs, is to be the hero.
If you would have told Clary Starling in the beginning of the film, you're going to be the hero that catches Buffalo Bill and saves the girls, she would have been like, you know what, I'm just a trainee. I don't, I am not, I'm not equipped to even be near that. Right. That's her spiritual goal. Right. Right? Her tangible goal is, I just want to, dude, this is good for my graduation. This looks good on my resume. I just want to be involved. I just want to help.
I want to help, you know, bridge the gap and maybe do some good or whatever. That's her tangible goal. So we get into the, again, like I said, the first 5 10 minutes she goes to meet Lecter. And what does she say when she sees his sketchings? She says, uh, Do you draw all these pictures, doctor? And he says, That's the Duomo seen from the Belvedere. You know Florence? That's what he says to her. Two major pieces of information if you're not paying attention. Right.
Buffalo Bill lives in Belvedere, Ohio. So he's telling her right off the bat. He's just giving her a little clue. This thing I painted is from the Belved is seen from the Belvedere. Buffalo Bills and Belvedere Ohio. Next thing, if you've seen the sequel, after he escapes, he goes to Florence, Italy. So only she would know that. Right? He gives her that piece of information. Basically saying, if I ever get the fuck out of here, this is where I'm going. We haven't even met him yet!
We don't know anything about him that much, really. We don't know anything about her, but in the first ten minutes, he's given us this information, left and right. Like Midsommar, Silence of the Lambs is a movie you gotta watch more than once because you pick up on all this shit later. Yeah, you pick up on all this shit later. So, um, so then, there's the real horrific scene. Much like Midsommar. The opening of this film is very disturbing. Yeah. The interview doesn't go well.
She tries to, she tries to push him around and muscle him a little bit. Of course, he turns to stone and gives her his famous, you know, fava beans and, uh, you know, I ate, uh, I ate his liver with the fava beans and nice Chianti. And then he just shuts down. Then he just shuts down. He says, you fly back to school now, Agent Starling.
I got the acting, though. I mean...
Yes.
Hands down. So they, they deserve, I agree, they, so this is one of those boring podcasts where they just agree with each other. I mean, this isn't, you know, cable TV. We're not going to be yelling at each other on this one. I mean, for real.
But, but for a reason, right? Like for a reason. Oh my god. Um, uh, God, I don't even know where to begin. So, funny thing about that. Anthony Hopkins is on screen, I think, on screen for about 21 minutes. And he wins Best Actor. Yeah. Like, that's amazing. Now, but you can say, well, even when he's not on screen, his presence looms large, right? Like, even when he's not on frame, they're talking about him. Yeah. Or they're afraid of him, or what, like, his, his presence is there.
It reminds me of, I think I've told you this story. We might have talked about it on a previous podcast. I don't know. But if it's redundant, maybe for the listeners, it isn't. Um, when we're, uh. Ricardo Montalban was first approached in being in the Star Trek sequel, Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan. At the time, Ricardo Montalban was one of the biggest stars in the world because he was on Fantasy Island. Right. Which was the biggest show on TV at the time.
I loved it.
Yeah. That plane, that plane.
Tattoo.
He, he was one of the biggest stars of the, in the world in the early 80s. Yeah, right. And he was like, uh, a Star Trek sequel? And they're like, but, but you were in, you know, because the episode that you were in back in the 60s. Oh yeah. They wanted, they picked that to do a direct sequel of. So, you would be reprising your character of Khan. And he said, well, I don't know. So he reads the script, and he says, I don't want to do it.
And his manager's like, What, what do you mean you don't want to do it? This is Star Trek, man! This is one of the, this is going to be a huge movie! Right after the success of Star Wars, See, you know, this is big.
This is an actor's dream to get that handed to him.
This is an actor's dream! And he said, I don't want to do it because I'm not in it enough. He said, I'm only in a few scenes. Right. And again, right now, nobody would ever say, no. Actor would say that normally.
That's amazing.
But when you're the biggest star Yeah. On TV at the time,
just think what they would've made if he wouldn't have done that.
Jack Nicholson did this for The Departed. He told Scorsese, I don't want to do it because I'm not in it enough. So Scorsese said, okay, I've got to rewrite it to where he's in it more.
Well, Wrath of Kahn would have been just a turd.
Yes, absolutely.
If they would have made it the other way.
An absolute turd. Yeah. But his agent said, read it again.
Wait, what movies are we talking about?
Wait, wait, I'm gonna get to the end of this little anecdote. You know we go off on tangents on these podcasts. so, his agent says, Read it again. Read it again. So he reads it again, and he agrees to do it. And what he said in the interview, what changed his mind, was that yes, he's only in a few scenes. But when he's not on screen, they're talking about him. Yeah. And he's like, that's what won it over for me. He's like, I, I, as an actor, I usually just thumb to the pages that I'm in, right?
Right. The highlighted pages that you're on. He said, when I read the script entirety, I realized that even when I wasn't on screen, they're talking about me. Yeah, hell yeah. Right? You're the character. Yeah, he's like, I had a complete cloud over this whole film. So that's when he agreed to do it. Same thing kind of here. Silence of the Lambs, Andy Hopkins wins Best Actor. He's only on the screen 21 minutes. But his presence looms large.
It's a good comparison.
You know what I mean? Over the whole film. When you hear that, you're like, 21 minutes, that's it? If you've seen Silence of the Lambs, you're like, surely he's in it for more than 21 minutes. He's not. But you think he is. Yeah. Because he looms large over the whole damn film!
Well, so he technically is.
Technically he is.
His character is in the film, yeah.
The whole damn time, yes. So, okay, so, uh, so then we talk about that script structure where they start with something crazy and then they go into at work at Play at Home. You see Clarice and her regular day of life, right? She's training at the academy, nothing spectacular. She's at the library writing up her report. Oh, we skipped over the traumatic thing about the, the interview ending. The cellmate next to Lecter...
Oh, come on, man. I don't even want to talk about this. It was so gross.
Jerks off into his hand and throws it at Clarice's face.
Yeah.
And by the way...
Wait, actually... He didn't just throw it at her face. It was a bullseye!
That's what I was gonna say! Not only did he attempt, He fucking nailed it! Like, right on her cheek! If I tried to throw cum at anything, I'm likely to miss 99 percent of the time. Not that I've tried! Alright, let's cut all this out, because we're losing my brother in a heart attack.
Oh my god!
I might miss 99 percent of the time, but Migs nails a bullseye! It gets her right in the face!
Holy shit, yeah you have to take this because I can't. Oh my god.
So... Is this going to be the thing we use at the commercial for this show?
Just us freaking dying... during a horror movie! What the hell are we talking about? Oh my god.
Alright, back to normal here.
But that scene was so disturbing, I mean, you animating it though, it just put me over the edge, holy shit.
Okay, then she, then we see her at at work, at home, at play, you know she's working out and she's in training at the academy and there's things that she's learning and stuff and they show her at at the library investigating, and then there's the call from Crawford. And he says, okay, I read your report, but he mentioned somebody. Did you follow up? That leads her to the storage unit where she finds the head in the bottle.
Okay. Here's where we get to our first turning point because she goes to see Lecter again. And they have a little interesting conversation between each other. But he says to her, I'm offering you a psychological profile, Buffalo Bill, based on the case evidence. Now, he hints that he wants to deal out of this without saying it. When he first gets up, she's already been given clues. He tells her, It's a fledgling killer's first attempt at transformation. She's like, what transformation?
And what fledgling killer? Is this Buffalo Bill you're talking about? You know what I mean? Like, she, he's already given her clues, and he just starts ignoring her after that, and he says, I've been in this room for eight years now, Clarice, and I know they'll never ever let me out while I'm alive. What I want is a window. I want a view where I can see trees or even water. You know what I mean? He's telling her what he wants.
So he's already laying it down, and fucking Tom, um, Howard Shore's score, the musical score, starts to kick up at that time. It's such a great scene. And she knows, she gets up, and she goes, and he goes, uh, you know, I'll help you catch him, Clarice. And she goes, you know who he is, don't you? Like, she knows, she knows. She's like, you know who he is, and you won't give him to us, unless you get something in return. Now we're in Act 2.
That's the first turning point, because now we're in a whole new, spectrum here. Um, and then we get introduction to Catherine Martin, she gets abducted by Buffalo Bill. We see him in the flesh. Right. For the f I was say for the first time we actually see him. Mm-hmm. um, trying to load that chair into the back of the van. Yeah. Right.
what was the woman's name that he captured there and, um, she was in, she, she was in, uh, what TV show
her, her real name is, uh, Brooke
Gray's anatomy. I think she's in Gray's.
Was she? I never watched Grey's Anatomy. But anyway, she plays Katherine Martin, the daughter of the Senator. Anyway. Um, and then Crawford pulls Starling out and says, Let's go. You're coming with us. There's more shit going on. We found another dead body. And now we're in Act 2, the first part of Act 2, where they're investigating, right, the, um, They're at that funeral home. Right? And she has that little flashback of seeing her father.
And again, remember, I said that the script structure starts, generally, you get to know the person first before the shit hits the fan. In this film, the shit hits the fan first. Right after that scene is over, as she's walking to her car, she has that flashback of seeing her father. So they're already starting to build up. Uh, uh, backstory, right? Uh, they have the autopsy on that dead body, the corpse, in the back of that funeral home where they find the cocoon in the throat.
Press release that Catherine Martin, the daughter of the Senator Ruth Martin, has been kidnapped. She goes to see the electorate again. And that's where we get to the midpoint scene. The midpoint scene of Silence of the Lambs is the, is the famous quid pro quo scene. I tell you things, you tell me things. Not about this case, though, about yourself. And what the fuck did Crawford say to her at the very beginning? You ought to tell him nothing personal. And what is her reaction? Go doctor.
Like, let's get it on, bitch! Because her ambition is so high! Remember? Remember what I said, the tangible goal you reach at the midpoint scene, that is to be a player, to be involved, she just wants to help. And when he says, I'll tell you everything, if you tell me everything about yourself. She makes that decision at the midpoint scene to reach her tangible goal and say, I'm a fucking player now, now I'm in the game. Because now he'll only talk to me.
Because I'm going to tell him shit about my childhood. Which I shouldn't do. Because this motherfucker is going to get in my head and I'm going to have nightmares for the rest of my life. But, I'm willing to do it because of my ambition to be a part, right? To be a part.
To be the hero.
Well, no. She doesn't know that she's going to be the hero yet.
Well, no.
She just wants to tell Crawford.
Yeah, she's still at that. So, yeah, that's the spiritual goal, right?
Right, her tangible goal is to just get information so she can tell Crawford. Hell, again, we're going to get to it later, every time she gets information, she calls Crawford. Hey, look what else I found out, look what else I found out, I found out this, I found out that. She doesn't want to be the hero, she just wants to tell the professionals how to get them. Right? So, uh, the Senator's pissed off.
They played that well, I mean, man.
Dude, it's so perfect. It's so perfect. Um, so then the senator gets pissed about this fake deal. They transfer him to Memphis for real. They have what I consider to be, my favorite scene of the whole film. And it's before the escape. But it's the last time Lecter and Clarice have their face to face. She brings him his drawings. It's my favorite scene, and it almost chokes me up every time I watch it.
Again, a lot of this is because Howard Shore, his score, the musical score, because it's dead silent for most of this scene. And Jonathan Demme shoots it. They always say, like, uh, an uneasy feeling is where a person's face takes up almost the entire frame. He zooms so close on Hannibal Lecter in that scene. And so close on Starling. Yeah. As he says, tell me about why you left that ranch. And she goes into the whole story about the lamb. I woke up in the middle of the night.
I heard a lamb screaming. Um, they were slaughtering the lambs. Right? And she's just a child. I mean, think about what she's pouring out to him right now. Yeah. Just to get information, she's willing to pour all this out, she starts to get choked up, she starts to teary eye, and she's like, I grabbed, I thought if I could just save one, and I picked up one lamb and I ran as fast as I could.
And of course she didn't get very far, the cops pick her up, it was, you know, the rancher was so mad that she was sent to live in an orphanage, and blah blah blah, cause her father died at a young age. The music starts to kick up. When Lecter says, what became of your lamb Clareys? And she goes, they killed him. And he, and that's when he delivers pretty much the title of the movie. She says, he says, you still wake up in the middle of the night, don't you, to the screaming of the lambs?
And she says, yes. And he goes, you think if you save poor Catherine, you can make them stop, don't you? You think if Catherine lives. You'll never ever wake up ever again to the awful screaming of the lambs. And she says, she says, I don't know. And she's crying at this point. She's like, I don't know. And he got what he wanted. So he simply says, thank you. Thank you. He got everything he ever needed to know about her in that moment.
And then when she says, tell me his name, by then the authorities are already coming in, and he can smell Dr. Chilton coming in, and he goes, Dr. Chilton, I believe. I believe you know each other, right? So great.
Yeah, and it ends so eerie, because as they're shuffling her out, he goes, Clarice, your case file, and he puts it through the bars, and she goes to reach for it, and he With his finger If you didn't get juice bumps from a chilling moment like that, you have no soul because at that at that moment, you're like Oh god, he touched her 15 years old i'm in the first time I saw it. I remember thinking oh He's gonna whisper something to her. He's gonna tell her who You know who it is.
Nope. Yep, and then BAM it changes that fast and you're like, he just, he just wanted, he just wanted to touch her. He just wanted to touch her, right? Because it's, it was, it wasn't enough to get inside her head. He wanted to feel her. That's amazing. So creepy. It's my favorite scene in the film. But then the next scene almost tops it as... What I, uh, again, what I said is one of the greatest scenes in film history, uh, up there with the baptism scene of the Godfather.
Yeah. Is the lector escape scene. Now, similar to Midsommar, where I say the more you watch it the more you catch. Mm hmm. When you watch Silence of the Lambs more than once, the initial shock of that reveal, his escape, Again, Howard Shore's score. Amazing score. And it raises the tension, right? And he is, uh, you don't know where he is. The cops are trying to storm the building. You don't know where he is. You see this cop has been carried off into an ambulance.
And the moment that he stands up in the ambulance and pulls that cop's flesh mask off his face, there's a shock there that I don't... I don't know most people Like, I don't know if they were ready to handle that yet. Right.
Exactly.
But, here's what I found. And watching it, you know, I've seen it a million times now, but here's what you get when you watch it on the second time. The shock of him pulling the skin off is gone. Because you know it's him. But it raises the tension earlier in the movie. Earlier in the scene where he's laying there as the cop. They think he's the cop. Right. Right? I know. He's genius. But now that when you watch it a second time and you know it's Lekker, your tension gets raised even more.
Yeah. And I couldn't help but think about Alfred Hitchcock. Alfred Hitchcock had an interview one time and he was trying to explain suspense to the interviewer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he said, Okay, let's say you and I are in this room right now and we're talking about baseball and then suddenly a bomb goes off and we both die. He says, the shock that hits the audience might last a couple of seconds.
He's like, but suspense is where before the scene even starts you show the bad guy put the bomb under the desk. Yeah. And now you and I are in the room talking about baseball. Now the audience is thinking, STOP TALKING ABOUT BASEBALL! GET THE FUCK OUT OF THERE! THERE'S A BOMB UNDER THE DESK! You know what I mean? The suspense is worth more than the explosion. So, you get the reveal of Lecter pulling that flesh mask off his face is scary enough. But when you go back and watch it a second time...
The tension is raised up until that moment, because now you know it's him. Now you know it's him the whole time. They got him.
So it's a movie that was a masterpiece that got better every time you saw it.
It gets better with taste! Yes. Every time, it ages like wine. The more you watch it, the better it gets. And I'm drinking Chianti here. That's great. It gets better as it goes. Yeah. And, and they... Uh, I mean, it's just like the whole time they're in the elevator and you know that that's Lector and the gurney?
And then the blood starts dripping down.
And you know the whole time that Lecter's laying right there, like the tension is raised. Alright. It's, it's, again, the escape scene, I'll put it up there with the Godfather's baptism scene is so great. For anyone that doesn't know what I'm talking about when I keep saying that, the famous baptism scene in The Godfather is where... Uh, Michael Corleone is standing as godfather to his, uh, sister's child as it's getting baptized, as the baby is getting baptized.
It's intercut with scenes of all the deaths he's ordered, right? All his men are killing the heads of all the other five families in this scene that he's proclaiming, I renounce Satan. I renounce evil doings, I renounce all this stuff, I'm standing as Godfather, and while all this shit's going on, he's killing all these people. So that, of course, that to me I think is one of the greatest of all time. Lecter's escape scene is up there. Yeah. As one of the best of ever in film history.
Yeah. Um, for those of you that are interactive with our podcast, Email us! Tell us what you think is the best scene in film history, And see where it matches with, uh, Michael Corleone's baptism scene, And Hannibal Lecter's escape scene. So now we get to the escape scene. Now we get to the all is lost, right? Because the next shot, oh by the way, I gotta mention this too. The second Lector pulls the flesh, the flesh mask off, what is the very next shot? It's the payphone dropping. Oh yeah.
And Ardelia, um, Ardelia Mapp, who's played by Cassie Lemmons, who's a director, by the way, in real life. Um, she's also an actress, but she's an actress in this movie, she's also a director. Running down the hallway to tell Clarice, right? Fucking Lector escaped, everyone run for cover! Basically that shit's hitting the fan in the worst way! The worst way! And she's sprinting down the hallway.
That's a bad day.
But it's a great shot, the way he shoots it. And this was going to be my point on that. This is going away from screenwriting and more towards directing. Phone calls can be boring. In film, right? They're relaying information sometimes you already know. Make phone calls interesting. I always talked about when I was in film school Dropping the phone and running. When I was in film school, one of my teachers asked about, uh, phone call How do you make phone calls interesting?
And I raised my hand and I said, Fargo. Because the phone call never happens. In Fargo, uh, it's, uh, Jerry Lundegaard, right? Played by William H. Macy. He's practicing how he's gonna tell the father in law that the daughter was kidnapped. Oh no! Oh! Oh no! Oh Gene! Oh my wife! He's going through all these practices, and then he picks up the phone to dial! And that's when the scene cuts, right? They don't actually show the phone call.
What's important there is his reaction, his preparation for the phone call.
Almost a comedic relief.
Silence of the Lambs does the same thing on the back end. The phone call itself is not important. What's important is Ardelia's reaction to it. So the second... Lecter pulls that skin mask off his face, and you know that it's Lecter. Yep. The scene cuts to that, the phone just dropping. That's right. Yeah, what a great And her, and her sprinting down the hallway.
They didn't even have to explain how.
Exactly. Right. Who called her? Why did he call her on a payphone? Yeah. What's the i We don't care about any of that! Nope. All that matters is, is now we know Lecter has escaped. Yeah. Yep. Right? So that's all is lost. And it's almost to the point where Clarice even says to Ardila, It's over. It's over. She even says to her, she's dead. Right? Talking about Catherine Martin. Because she feels at that moment that Lecter was just fucking with her.
He was just using her to get into a place where he could escape. And that, that's all is lost. Everything I fought for, my tangible goal, everything, everything's out the window now. He was just fucking with me.
One of the, one of the twisted side story, I mean, part of the story of, uh, Bill? Buffalo Bill?
Yeah.
He would starve the victims. It's like, it's part of the psychological torture that this film, like un unveils, he was starving their victims, therefore giving the police time to possibly save her. They, it kind of gives you the movie because that's part of the, the way they set it up. He's, he's, he needs to starve them to loosen up their skin.
Right.
It's so disturbing. I was like, oh my God. He's making a skin suit.
Yes. Yes. Uh, and now we, before we jump into Act three, one little side note. Um, so when I said the Senator finds out about this fake deal, and she's pissed off, right? She tells, uh, they said, uh, Paul Krendler is over here from Justice. He's gonna take over in Memphis. The guy that plays Paul Krendler's name is actually Ron Vaughter. Uh, he's an actor. He died in real life of AIDS. And he was in Philadelphia. uh, which by the way, Philadelphia is directed by Jonathan Demme.
He cast him in Philadelphia as one of the lawyer partners that knew about Tom Hanks dying of AIDS, right? He died in real life of AIDS. Because he was unavailable when they did the sequel, because of this, they cast Ray Liotta to play Paul Krendler in the sequel Animal. So, that's where, uh, people, you know, I, I didn't know that he had died in real life of AIDS.
And when I heard that they were doing Hannibal, the sequel, and that they had cast Ray Liotta as Paul Kremler, my original reaction was, Oh, bullshit! I mean, I love Ray Liotta, don't get me wrong, but let's get the same guy! Go get the guy that played him in the first movie! And then when I looked it up, I realized he was dead. He couldn't, he couldn't play the part, he had died. Um, and so Ray Liotta plays a great... Uh, Paul Krendler, uh, for anyone that sees, has seen that film.
Couple other details before we get to the third act. We talked about the Bill Skins fifth article being about Lecter. Couple other details about, uh, I'm jumping way back here. We're out of sync, but, whatever. We jump around. When Starling first comes into John Crawford's office, there's that chalkboard that has Skins written real big on it, right? It's interesting if you zoom in to let you see some of the other stuff that's written on that board.
But what I thought was very interesting is when we get to his actual office where Starling is looking around and then she turns around and sees the pictures on the wall and the Bill Skins 5th article and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah behind her Off to the side is a couch. And on that couch is a pillow and blankets. Probably nothing, right? But what I see... Is, this is a guy who works so much his marriage life is probably in shambles and because of it, doesn't have a lot of lady friends.
Which spawns Lector into saying at that one point, do you think Crawford wants you sexually? Remember? And he starts going into, true, he's so much older, but do you think he wants, you know what I mean? Like, it kinda, to me I saw that again. Not in the first viewing, maybe not even on the tenth viewing, but on like the hundredth viewing, I was like, wait a minute, so he's, maybe he sleeps in his office, because his marriage life sucks, and he works so much, but maybe that's why he's
That's such a small detail, it's like so fleeting, how
why did he pick Starling? Is he attracted to her? You know what I mean? Like, they know each other. He mentions, Oh, you grilled me pretty hard on that one seminar at UVA. You know what I mean? Like, so he knows who she is. Sure. So is he attracted to her? It's just something like that, just a little directorial detail. Yeah. A pillow and blankets on the couch in his office. Alright, so, uh, So we get to, uh, the third act, right? So what's the second turning point?
Obviously the dark night of the soul, which is right after the all is lost, is where she sits with Ardelia, and they're going over the case file. Right? You know, he fucked me. He was just screwing me. He didn't really want me to find Buffalo Bill. He's just doing it to escape. And Ardelia says, wait a second. Is this Lecter's handwriting?
I actually read a reddit one time that said Ardelia was the one that actually solves the crime because she's the one that says Isn't this Lecter's handwriting? Read this. What does this say? She's the one that actually finds it and it's where he gives her the hint that it's not random at all. If you try to find it, it's there. And he talked about simplicity in the previous scene. We covet what we see every day. That's when she comes to the realization he knew her, he knew the first victim.
That's your second turning point. 'cause it transitions now into the third act where she's going to investigate Belvedere, Ohio. The missing the place of the missing first girl. Right? And who the fuck's door does she knock on? Right? Right. After enough investigating, she actually walks up.
It was great how they, how they, uh, directed that.
The editing of that is phenomenal.
It's so good. Oh my god.
Because you believed. That the FBI is so and again when she discovers the the the diamond shaped patterns Yeah, of this of the sewing right? She doesn't say I'm gonna be the hero She calls Crawford right and says hey, I figured it out He's making a dress out of human skin and Crawford's like yes, we know we're on our way to pick him up right now Thank you for all your help. Go home.
Have a cigarette Whatever, you know, actually he tells her keep investigating because we want to get him for murder, not kidnapping. So keep investigating, but we're going to get him right now and thank you for all your help. And she feels like, ah, I helped. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Thank you. Tangible. Yeah, I better keep investigating because he wanted me to and we want to get him for murder, not kidnapping.
So let me try to link him to the Biml, the Katherine And that's when she goes and knocks on his fucking door, right? And he's there, and it leads to the spiritual goal, obviously, of becoming the hero. He saves, she saves the girl, kills the bad guy, I mean, again, nothing you ever would have thought would have happened to a trainee at the beginning of the movie.
And the way that all unfolds, it ends up in the dark, uh, using the darkness for, uh, and he had these, uh, night vision that, I must say, for the date that this movie was made, those were really good quality night vision. That's like, only the, the, the elite, uh, military had those kind back then.
And others would say that that's an actual flaw in the movie, because if you watch that scene again, when he reaches up... A shadow is crossed across her. So, how would there be a shadow with infrared? Right?
That's funny. Yeah.
But, that aside, it's still a perfect movie. Yeah. I don't care what anyone says. You found a flaw. Someone found a flaw. Well, I refuse to acknowledge that as a flaw in such a perfect movie. Um, so, yeah, so.
You know, if they were Lucas, they would just go fix that.
That's true. And they probably could on a re release. Right. On a re release, they probably could.
Gotta tie it back to Lucas or Star Wars, right?
Yeah. Uh, well, of course that's how we roll. Um, so yeah. All right. So your first reactions, when did, when, when was the first time you saw the film?
I'm embarrassed to say this cause yours was so fricking intense. I don't remember. I don't remember if I saw it. I mean, I don't, I don't remember if I saw it in the theater. I don't remember. I'm so, I'm breaking your heart right now. He's like, ladies and gentlemen,
I told you one of the most personal stories.
It's so bad. It's funny because I have a lame, I have a lame description of wanting to go back into a theater to see a movie. Also, but it pales in comparison to the movie that I went back to see.
Oh no.
It was good, but it's not this good. I mean...
What was it?
Flatliners. With Kiefer Sutherland and...
Okay. Actually, I remember from my childhood...
I still think that was a good movie.
I remember how highly you spoke of that film. Yeah. I do remember that. I actually remember that, you talking about that movie...
Yeah.
Because it opens with Kiefer Sutherland going, Today's a good day to die.
Yeah. I thought it was a great... We should do that movie sometime because I thought it was a great film.
And that, keep in mind, that's the only time in my life I've ever done that, and I always put an asterisk there because it doesn't count when The Phantom Menace was first released. Because I bought tickets in advance for back to back shows. Because I knew I was going to want to watch it twice in a row. So that doesn't count. Sound of the Lambs is the only film where I saw a movie cold without knowing what it's about. Just spending your day there.
And I walked out going, nope, I'm going right back in line. I'm gonna watch this motherfucker again. That's how intense that film was to me and how inspirational it was on my life.
Um And watching it again for this, but I was going to tell you, actually, I was going to try to do the podcast without re watching either one because I've seen both of them so many times that I was like, I bet you that I could talk about script structure and all the things we always talk about without ever watching them again. But I was like, nah, fuck that. I got to watch both of them again. I want to watch them again.
And I'm glad I did because again, you pick up little things that you didn't catch the first time. And at this time, I took notes, right? I was actually going to take notes and write down things like theme and stuff like that, but it was really... Just a joy for me to watch both of these films again for this podcast. I was so excited when we decided that we were going to do this podcast. It does not surprise me that we have to break it up into two parts.
Um, like Star Wars, like we did with Star Wars. Because of how great, I mean, I love both of these films.
That's your little gesture of affection.
Exclamation point! As Elaine would say in Seinfeld, I would put exclamation points at the end of all of these sentences. At the end of this one, and the end of that one! So anyway, that's my little Seinfeld reference. Um, so, uh, yeah, so obviously these movies mean a lot to me. Silence of the Lambs more so just because it changed the direction of... Wow, I wanted my life to go, uh, to go into writing. Uh, Midsommar, I just think, is the best film of 2019. I think it's an abomination.
It got left completely out of the Oscars. Um, but, uh, so, we encourage you, listeners, if you haven't seen either of these films, please watch them. They are ama even though we just told you the fucking endings to both of them. right. Go watch 'em. It's, it's, I mean, yeah, it's still, it's still better. It's even better knowing what you know, because then you catch little things that are with the disclaimers. Please. Yeah. Yes. I mean, watch the disclaimers. Yes.
There you some major trigger triggering shit in Midsommar
you know it, uh, Crawford, one of the first things Crawford says at Starling is, do you spook easily? Yeah. So, I'm going to relay that message to our listeners. If you spook easily, stay away from both of these films. Alright, so what do you got for me? Six degrees.
Six degrees. Oh, I gotta pull my phone up. I forgot everybody's name because I'm like three and a half beers in. And these are high octane. Hold on.
I finished, I finished this bottle of Chianti. I can't believe it. I don't know if I've, I've never, you know what, I don't want to say I don't know if. I'm going to say I've never finished a bottle of wine in my life. Cause I'm not, I'm not a wine guy.
Six degrees. Isabel Grill. Uh, who's Maja.
She plays Maja in Midsommar, the redhead that seduces Christian with her pubes and her menstrual juices.
I anticipated that we would talk about her a little bit, so I picked her.
Yep, yep, yep.
And Charles, was it Napier?
Charles Napier, now Charles Napier has been in a million things. Right,
He passed several years ago, and he hasn't been in a lot of recent stuff.
True. And he was, he has,
but he was in a lot of stuff.
He has. He had a shot, has a brutal, he has a brutal death scene in Silence of the Lambs.
Hang on here, let me, let me, um, pop this in honor of, uh, his, his career. Charles Napier. Thank you.
Oh, thank you. Thank you. This is good. Okay.
So, how'd we do? Cause, uh, I thought I might challenge you with Isabel Grill because
This is fucking terrible!
She ain't been in a lot and she's Swedish!
This is terrible! It's absolutely terrible! This was gut wrenching!
Did I get, did you get it?
I got it.
Okay. I made you work.
I got it. But, and again, remember that we're not allowed to use the movies that we're using.
Yeah, that's an added level of difficulty to the original rule.
Because otherwise, I would just say Midsommar because Florence Pugh has been in a million things now.
So it's really seven degrees if we're not using this one, I think. We just call it seven degrees.
Okay. No, listen, if I was, if I was able to use midsummer, I probably could have done this in three, but without using midsummer. I have to pick something else she's done. Yes. And has only done Swedish movies and half of them were short films. So... Okay. But I found it. I found it. I found it. And for those of you saying, oh, he cheated. He used an IMDb. Remember, it's not Stump Jerome. We just want to see if it can be done.
If it can be done, yeah. If it can be done. It's pretty fascinating that it can so far. I mean, we've never been... We've never not done it.
Right, and we've picked some obscure names. Yeah,
Carrot Top and, uh, Charlie Chaplin were the best one.
That's the best one. Alright, so here we go. So here we go. Isabel Grill. She played Maja. Right? In Midsommar. She was in a 2022 Swedish film called The Store. With Latvian actress Eliza Sika. Okay, who was in, who was the lead in the Viking sisters, another 2022 Swedish film. This one had Henrik Norman in it.
Oh, you went deep.
Oh, I'm deep. Here's where it starts to get to shit. You might realize Henrik Norman was in Borg versus LaBeouf. Uh, where Shia LaBeouf played, um, uh, John McEnroe. It was the movie about Bjorn borg versus... You I remember the... So it's a 2017 film called Borg versus McEnroe. Okay, alright. Henrik Norman's in that. Who else is in that, aside from Shia LaBeouf? Stellan Skarsgård.
Now you got some piece, now you got some names.
Now I got some names. Stellan Skarsgård, of course, was in the 2009 film Angels and Demons with Tom Hanks, who was in Philadelphia. Also directed by Jonathan Demme, with Charles Napier, who played the judge in Philadelphia. He was the judge of the, of the case.
Wow, that, that was six wasn't it?
No, it was five.
Was it five? I was trying, I was trying to count.
The Soar, Viking Sisters. You lost me after five. Five! Borg vs. McEnroe, Angels and Demons, and Philadelphia has five connections. Wow. Now, am I embarrassed? Yes, because it could have been done in way less if I was able to use Midsommar, it would have been able to be a lot less. But, remember, the point of this game is to, can we find, are there two people that cannot be connected?
But that's why I said seven degrees, because we're actually adding a level of difficulty.
Yes! So, you know what I'm saying? Because I don't get to use, I don't get to use the movies that we're talking about.
Yeah! It's an added level. It's harder than six degrees.
Right. So I wouldn't be able to use Silence of the Lambs or midsommar.
I think we're going to connect a different way. Right? It just made sense.
I can't think right now. I have too much Chianti on the brain. But, yes, for those of you listening, I usually try to do six degrees off the cuff, like off the top of my head. This one, my brother, just kicked me in the nuts.
He's bothering me at work. He's like, don't forget six degrees. I'm like, son of a.
I was texting you two nights ago.
I know. My next break, I'm like, all right, I'm looking at IMDB at the people that were in it. I'm like, oh, um, here we go. So I enjoy my part. I just get to throw shit at you.
Yeah. And it's hard. It's difficult. But, but, we made it happen. It can be done. It can be done. And that's our thesis, that any two can be connected with the six degrees we have yet to be stumped.
So, um,
let's land the plane!
Yeah, I don't know, how do we end this? I mean, it's, it was two masterpieces. You need to see both of them.
One of the greatest films of the 90s, one of the greatest films of the 2010s, Um, one completely snubbed by the Oscars, one absolutely adored by the Oscars.
I think Midsommar is going to become a legendary film. You know what I mean? Because it's so, it's still so recent to when it was made. I'd like to listen back to this podcast in 20 years. And you know what I mean?
You know who would love to podcast? Your daughters. Particularly Hannah and Kaitlynn, because they both loved Midsommar.
Kaitlynn, no, I don't think...
Was it not Kaitlynn? Definitely Hannah. Definitely Hannah. It was Hannah.
I just asked if she had seen it. I'm pretty sure she said no.
Okay, so it was Hannah.
Yeah. I don't know. I hadn't talked to Hannah about it, but I'll have to talk to her.
All you have to do is text one word, midsummer.
Yes. Hannah, we will text, text you. Actually, I'm kind of disappointed I did not consult Hannah. Because they would have really loved, Me feeding, their point of view, so.
Yes.
You know what I mean?
Yes. And it's unfair. I will be talking to you soon. Because I had been feeding, because I had been feeding mom's point of view while we did this podcast, so. Yeah. It's only fair that you should have been able to feed point of view of your daughter.
But Hannah, we will be talking. This was an amazing film, as disturbing as it was. Yes. So that's where we should land it.
Man, have we been three hours? Three?
It's 160 minutes. I can't do math right now.
Well that's... But that's of only recorded time. We've taken breaks.
Well, I paused during that break. So it's pretty much, I mean, this is going to be a long... Two long ones. I mean, this is, uh, we split it in two. I think we're going to release these in two separate episodes because it's worth it. Because who can sit through an hour and 61 minutes of two guys... Drunk talking.
Unless you have a long drive ahead of ya.
Yeah, it's great for road trips.
Yeah. Oh, the last time I went down to L. A. I listened to all of our old podcasts. It takes up the time, man.
Yeah, it does. It's funny because you anticipate what you're gonna say.
Yeah. I'm always like, oh, here's where I said that funny thing.
We just totally nerded out over ourselves. Can you believe this?
It's pretty gross. We just, you know what we did? We MIGs ourselves! I have to say, we set a record on this one tonight. This was the first one you almost died. You almost died on air.
You have no idea. Oh my god. Alright, well, until next time, uh, cheers and go see some damn movies.
I'm Jerome Wiegand.
I'm Chris Wiegand.
And we'll see you at the movies.
See you at the movies.