Are you lonesome tonight? Do you miss me tonight? Are you sorry we drifted apart? Does your man? Hi guys. Where? Back Thank you for listening to significant lovers. We are a true love podcast. I am Mel. Yes, and I'm Kel. And we're two cousins. We are True Love podcast, but today it's also like a true crime podcast because we are covering the infamous Gypsy Rose Blanchard and marriage and relationship with a guy named Ryan Anderson who she met while she was in prison.
Wow. Yeah, I was gonna. Say that maybe, maybe I haven't looked into it. Maybe he's distant cousin. Yeah, this is our first true crime adjacent episode, so I wonder if this will attract any true crime people. Yeah, welcome, guys. So I am hosting today's episode, telling Kelly all about their relationship. I am getting over being sick, so my voice is a little shaky at times. It might sound like I'm crying, you know? Maybe that's fitting given some of the storyline that we're
going to get into, but. Yeah, I'm not. No worries. Yeah, but we don't need to comment about how it sounds like Mel's crying. Just kidding. I don't think anybody was going to do that anyway. But Cal, have you been following Gypsy Rose at all? Not no, not really. I have to admit I don't follow true crime stories generally because it creeps me out too much, but it is interesting.
I did look her up a while ago and read about it, but I don't know anything about her relationship really, so I have a lot to learn. I didn't know much about it either. I knew about Gypsy Rose from that Hulu series. I actually didn't watch it. The one with Joey King. But oh, what's it called? The ACT and it's a it's like a limited series. Joey King. I feel like she looks a lot like her. It's also starring, what's her name? Patricia Gosh. Arquette. Yeah, yeah.
It's only Patricia. Yeah, so that's how I first learned about Gypsy Rose, but I didn't really know what. I feel like. People now are suddenly so obsessed with her now that she just recently got out of prison. I didn't know that she was married or anything. I didn't know how old she was. So this episode, I'll say there's a lot of back story with her, not a lot of back story with her husband. That's OK.
That happens sometimes. But before we get into the episode, you know, on the podcast we've talked a lot about how mental health can affect relationships and we recently learned of an organization that is doing a lot of important work to combat OCD in relationships. Yeah, it's called no CD. And you know, OCD is more than what you see on TV and in the
movies. If you imagine having unwanted thoughts about your relationship stuck in your head all day, no matter how hard you try to make them go away, that's relationship OCD, which I feel like is a less known about type of OCD, but it comes with unrelenting intrusive images, thoughts and urges about your partner, a loved one. And breaking the OCD cycle takes effective treatment. You can go to no CD, so that's NOCD dot com to get evidence
based treatment. And on no CD you can book a call with a face to face licensed therapist. And no CD is sponsored by most insurance companies. So yeah, it's a really cool organization that I feel like it's pretty relevant to our show and anybody that's struggling
with a breakup. If you know someone, a loved one that is maybe having issues with relationship OCD, then you should tell them about no CD. But the three words that I would use to describe them, I didn't come up with this beforehand, so I'm coming up with it on the spot. But I would say rushed all right, awkward. Oh, and supportive. Oh. Ended with the positive one. I thought it was going to be a -1, like jeez. No, I think they are supportive of each other. But yeah, OK, our girl, Gypsy,
she's had quite a life. She was born back in 1991, July 22nd in Golden Meadow, LA. Her mom, Dee Dee Blanchard, was 24 years old and her dad Rod was 17. And yeah, and Dee Dee. I think Dee Dee had lied about her age when she met Rod and they she got married or she got pregnant only three months into dating. Wow. And so then Rod felt obligated
to marry her. But then he woke up on his 18th birthday and realized that he was in love with the He thought he was married to a woman that he wasn't in love with. And he said, you know, I'm sorry, Dee Dee, I can't do this. They got divorced. I think he still stayed a presence in Gypsy's life a little bit. He seems like a really nice guy, but he was so young. And I think that Dee Dee, Gypsy's mom, alienated her from her dad. I could see that I think little. I know. I think she was very.
Heartbroken by it, six months later, Rod began dating a woman named Christy, who would later become Gypsy's stepmother, and they would go on to have two children. So Gypsy has two half siblings who are like 10 years younger than her, but Gypsy. She was born a perfectly healthy child, but when she was a few months old, her mother told Rod that she had Gypsy, had sleep apnea and was having seizures and had problems with her saliva glands.
And as she got older, the list of supposedly ailments grew and DD claimed that Gypsy had muscular dystrophy and had to use a wheelchair. And she also claimed that Gypsy had leukemia and would have to she would shave Gypsy's head in order to give her the appearance, like she was undergoing chemotherapy. But she didn't have any of these conditions, and instead Gypsy was the victim of Munchausen syndrome by proxy, which is when a caretaker. Manipulates it, makes it somebody.
Yeah, convinces them that they have physical health issues that they don't really have. A lot of times they're doing it for sympathy or attention, or to control the other person. Dee Dee would purposely give gypsy medication to make her have allergic reactions in order to trigger reactions that mimic actual health conditions. And that made her. So messed up. So messed up. It's real fucked up. Would you say that her mother has Munchausen's? Is that how that works?
And then Gypsy Rose has it by proxy? Or what does the mother have as her mental illness? Because clearly she has one. Yeah, I think. I think that's what it is. I think it's also called fictitious disease syndrome or something. I mean, her mother definitely had that. And in thinking about this, where I'm like, how much was her mother? On some level, her mom was aware
that Gypsy wasn't really sick. If the doctor caught on to it or family members caught on to it, the mom would just go to a different doctor and then later on. So so Dee Dee and Gypsy lived with Dee Dee's parents, the grandparents. But once they caught on to the fact that Gypsy wasn't really sick, she moved away. And the fam, they moved to Missouri. Wow. So she must have known that Gypsy was actually healthy. But how did she consciously know that she was purposely doing this?
I'm not sure. Yeah, what the heck. I can kind of understand someone's urge to pretend that they're sick to get sympathy. But it is just beyond understanding to, like, purposefully meddle with someone and make it look like they're sick when they're not. Yeah. I could see maybe overreacting.
And if your kid has like, the sniffles, you know, then for attention, unconsciously jumping to conclusions like they have a disease, but to like actually give her medication and shave her head and stuff, like that's so deliberate, yeah. And I think part of the reason also might have been for attention from Gypsy's father, because he always praised Dee Dee for being such a good mother. Because Dee Dee came across like she was so doting, like people
in the community loved her. Because, you know, she seemed like the sweet mother who would do anything for her child and was taking her to all these doctors appointments and homeschooling her. And she seemed like a St. to
people, but did you? She was so good at manipulating doctors that Gypsy actually underwent several unnecessary surgeries, including getting a feeding tube put in and the removal of her saliva glands, which led her teeth to rot out and she had to get all of her teeth removed. Oh my God. Yeah, what the heck.
Really messed up. I could also see if a parent yeah, their kid is sick and they're overprotective and they go to the doctors and the doctors say, oh, there's nothing wrong and they're like, no, that's not true. There is like, I know there's something wrong because they want to protect them. But in this case it was just on a whole nother level. And also, but like I said, Gypsies health issues garnered a lot of sympathy for the mother
daughter duo. On the surface, they seemed really close and Gypsy had this very pure childlike spirit well into her teens. She was very into Disney princesses and fairy tales. She has this very soft spoken voice like fairy tales do exist and just seems so innocent. And they moved to Missouri after Hurricane Katrina. And it's believed that the real reason they moved was, like I said, because Dee Dee's family was becoming skeptical of
Gypsy's health issues. But also using Hurricane King Katrina as an excuse allowed Dee Dee to explain away missing medical records when she went to the doctors. Oh my God. Obviously on that level she is must be aware that she's doing this and being manipulative and this move isolated Gypsy from her father even more. Didi would speak very poorly about him too, so kind of
distance Gypsy from him. And he was a normal guy like and it's unfortunate because it hindered her from having a normal, you know, parental unit in her life at all. Yeah. I know Didi would also lie to Gypsy about her age when she was a teenager, to the point where Gypsy didn't even know how old she was. When Gypsy was 19 years old, she thought she was, I think, 15 or 16. She had no. Idea that she. Was an adult. Which is crazy like at some point you must know your real
age. So she just must have been so manipulative that like, the years could pass. Or it's like, wait. But. Didn't. So was she? Never. She was never in school. No, she was homeschooled. Yeah, I guess that makes sense because I feel like that'd be hard to not know if you're in. School. But yeah, exactly. That's true. Yeah. So she had no friends growing up either.
And so Dee Dee, she would also use physical abuse to manipulate Gypsy. She would hold her hand in public and squeeze it if Gypsy said something wrong, and she would strike her with clothes, clothing, hangers at home when they got home if she said anything. In 2009, an an anonymous tip was submitted to the authorities that Gypsy was being abused and social workers even visited the home. But Dee Dee was so good at manipulating them that they just left.
I wonder who sent that? I know, I'm not sure. Good on them, whoever it was. It seems like Didi's family, like her mom and dad, said that they didn't even that. I think they said they flushed her ashes down the toilet when she died. So I they really. Didn't. Oh my God, so. I think they knew that she was her. Parents. Said that, yeah. What? I think so. That's crazy. That's weird though. Like, I mean, I just need to know more because how did she
even turn out this fucked up? I mean, that's a whole other conversation. Like, can a kid just turn out so fucked up without any influence from you? You know what I mean? Like can you have a kid that is just like evil and has nothing to do with the how you raise them you? Know. No. I think that they probably also were not giving her the attention that she needed growing up and that's why she sought it out in these ways
afterwards. Yeah, I mean, I I feel like, yeah, there's got to be something weird with the grandparents too, because that's a even despite everything that happened, like to flush your own kids ashes, that's just that's fucked up. But anyway. Yeah, it's crazy. So Gypsy started to gain more independence as she got older, and she also really started to
desire romance. You know, like I said, she was really obsessed with Disney princesses, and she was obsessed with the idea of a Prince coming and saving her. However, Didi for Didi forbid Gypsy from talking to boys and told her that she'd never be able to have love or a romantic relationship in her life. Oh. My gosh. Which only made Gypsy want it
more. So then when Gypsy was around 19, she met a boy at a sci-fi convention and her mother found out and smashed the computer so that Gypsy wouldn't be able to talk to him and she actually physically restrained. Oh, sorry. No worries. Poor Mel. Wait, do you remember this song? Mel, try to run away with the Gypsy Woman. Yes, I do. Caitlin, my sister, was playing the CD in the car that she made wicked long time ago, and that was on it. It's by the. God. And relevant because Gypsy Rose,
first of all, OK, I don't. I don't want to. I'm sorry if someone listening, if this is your name and Gypsy Rose yourself. If you're listening, I'm sorry, but I questioned the mother's decision to name her Gypsy. Oh yeah, it's weird. I actually, Oh my God, she named her after character. I think I read the reason why she was named Gypsy, but I didn't write it down. I think she was named after somebody.
But yeah, it is interesting because gyp, well, Gypsy is also like an offensive term that you're not supposed to stay anymore. But it does mean someone who is deceptive, right? Kind of. I guess so. I mean, I always think of it as more like a traveller, like a bohemian person. But yeah, that's true. Like that is 1 perception. Yeah. So that is interesting because the mom is deceptive. Exactly. And in some way, Gypsy was deceptive with her mother.
Like Gypsy was catching on to the fact that she wasn't really sick and was playing into this role, but it was a means of survival because like I said, her mother would strike her if she acted out. So she didn't know any differently. And. She obviously had no money or like, I'm guessing she never had a job. So especially if she thought she was like 14, like how would she get a job at a exactly store or
something? Yeah. Exactly so. Like I said, after that sci-fi convention, her mother smashed the computer so she wouldn't talk to any boys and restrain Gypsy to the bed, and she denied her food. And Dee Dee told Gypsy that she had filed paperwork stating that she was mentally incompetent and that if she ever went to the police, nobody would believe her. Oh my gosh. But Gypsy somehow was able to join a Christian dating site, and she must have had a different computer.
And on that site she met a man named Nicholas God John, and she confided in him about her mother's abuse and asked him to kill her mother so that they could be together. Had they met in person yet? I don't think so, I think. OK. But they eventually did meet in person. I didn't really research their relationship too much, so, but Nicholas, he had a history of mental health issues and he was also autistic and some believe that. Gypsy.
Manipulated him into conducting the murder on her behalf. He was really so in love with Gypsy and like he saw himself as saving her. But what were you going to say about that? I don't know, like, I just, I I guess I feel bad if he's autistic that that adds a whole other level to it. But I don't really. Yeah, that makes it hard. I don't know how severe his autism is. It's hard to get mad at people when they have mental struggles or issues like this.
So I don't know. But I would say that it's hard for me to like absolve someone from murder to say like, oh I was manipulated like how? I don't know. I I I can't even think of one reason that could. You know what I mean? Like it's it's a decision that you made. It's a huge step to do something like that that. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like I I just don't know how someone could manipulate you that much that you think that that's like nothing to do. And then later you can say like
I didn't mean to or you know. What I mean, yeah, no, I agree. I mean, that was his defense on the stand was that, you know, his defense team said that he was not in the, like mentally, I don't know, independent enough to have done something like that on his own. And that he was easily influenced by Gypsy and that they made it seem like she was really manipulative and it was her idea. And, you know, he just went along with it because he loved
her so much. But, you know, she was asked about this later and she said, you know, you know, because she ended up getting 10 years in prison for second degree murder and he got life in prison without the possibility of parole. And so she was asked, and she felt guilty that he's going to be locked out for the rest of his life when it was her idea. And she said, well, he is the one that did it, You know, he he made that decision.
But. Yeah. He wouldn't have done it if she didn't tell him to do it. So that is the complicated part of that I'm. Guessing they didn't know each other that well, right? Or did they? They did have a sexual relationship and they did say that they were in love and that they were doing this so that they could be together. How did she sneak around her mom and do that? I don't know. That's a real good question. I like I said, I didn't research the actual back story too much.
But in June 2015 is when the murder happened. And this was a very highly planned murder. Like, it wasn't just impulsive, They really did plan it. Together, he killed Dee Dee by stabbing her to death 17 times. While Gypsy was in the next room. And then immediately afterwards they posted to Facebook the bitch is dead and then they went in the next room and they had sex and then they fled the scene. So, like, there's a lot of fucked up shit going on.
And like, I feel a lot of sympathy for Gypsy with the way her mother treated her, but. Like. This is fucked. Up like it is. Because I it just hurts me. Like, what if her mom got treatment for whatever was wrong with her and like, she could have changed maybe? I mean, what she did was horrible, but murders never right, you know? I know, but I mean, Gypsy, I don't know if she knew that there was another way out. It's like we can't say like if you were in her situation what we would do.
Like all she if she was so isolated and all she knew were movies where. That's how people exactly. Problems and I don't know, I I think that she had a very warped sense of the world. So that's true. Yeah, and actually, like when she went to prison, she gained weight. Usually when people go to prison they lose weight, which just showed, you know, the judge how abused she was, that she was so malnourished when she was like, she really looked like she was like a young child when she was
23 years old. That's insane. Ryan's back story is a lot shorter. I don't know anything about him. He's from Lake Charles, LA. He works as a middle school social studies teacher and before meeting Gypsy, he was helping to financially support and raise his nephew with his mother, and Gypsy has described him as being soft, goofy and having a calming presence and a fire D. Oh my God. That's all I know. That's all I know about the guy. I'll also say he's like, maybe 300 lbs.
Oh really? Wow. Just eyeballing it to just help you visualize him. OK, so back in 2017, Ryan watched the HBO documentary film Mommy Dead and Dearest and thought to himself, gosh, she's cute and Gypsy story really struck stuck with him. So then he watched the Hulu series, The ACT, which is based on Her Life, which came out in 2019. And more or less, it's just like a true crime case that he's very interested in at this time in the prison confessions, he said.
I felt sad for her. I felt like I couldn't judge her for that. I understood why she did it. You know, Gypsy felt this was the only way out. But before meeting Ryan in 2018, Gypsy was actually engaged to another man named Ken, who had written to her in prison. What? And they became pen pals and would talk on the phone regularly.
And then he proposed in October 2018, and Gypsy revealed in the Lifetime documentary The Prison Confessions that he was her first great love and that she gave him her that he gave her her first passionate kiss. However, Ken was a very private person, and after the Hulu series came out in 2019 about Gypsy's life, he felt uncomfortable about the scrutiny into his own life and didn't want the spotlight. So they broke up and Gypsy was very, very heartbroken.
What about her other boyfriend? The one who killed their mom. Yeah. Yeah, they didn't speak after that. Wow. He's in prison for life. Wow, I wonder how he feels. I know I would be kind of pissed off. Yeah, well, her gypsies, parole, she's not allowed to speak to him. Oh, really? Yeah. So wait, why is that? I don't know. You probably don't.
Know I think that's often the case though, that when someone commits a crime, once they get paroled, they're not allowed to speak to either their victim or like the person they perpetuated like committed the crime with. But yeah, and Gypsy did testify as a witness in Nicholas's case to try to help him get off, but it didn't work. That's a tough situation because I feel like to help yourself to help him would be harming
yourself. I know, but I think at that point she had already gotten her sentence, so she was already in prison, so she was testifying, basically just saying it was her idea. Anyway, apparently Gypsy and Ken got back together in 2019 and planned to get married in 2020, but they ended up breaking up again because Ken didn't want to
be in the spotlight. So then it's 2020 and it was the height of lockdown and Tiger King was the show that everyone was watching, and Ryan's friend wanted to write to Joe Exotic, and Ryan said OK, I'll make a deal with you. You write Tiger King and I'll write Gypsy Rose Blanchard, and he's later said. I remember telling her what her story meant to me, and on the second page I just let her have it. I told her everything about me,
about the letter, she said. The thing that stuck out the most about Ryan's letter is not only how genuine he came across, but also how, like, how funny he is. His sense of humor was great, and I just fibed with that really well. And in the prison Confessions, Gypsy also said that she thought the fact that Ryan was devoting his life to raising his nephew was a good sign that he'd make a great father someday. And apparently Gypsy had received 250 letters from potential suitors while in
prison. But she. Liked. That Ryan was from her home state of Louisiana 2. 150. Yeah, and this got me thinking. Like, what possesses people to write inmates? Like, we know that this is a really popular phenomenon with serial killers, like happened with Charles Banson, Ted Bundy, the Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez and John Wayne Gacy, and all of them ended up having love while in prison. It's crazy. It's like, I almost don't want to say this on the podcast, 'cause I don't want to inspire
any lonely people. Like, if you commit a really bad crime, millions of people, not millions, but like hundreds of crazy people, are going to write to you. Yeah, don't do it. But like it happens to people, especially the bigger the more, more notorious their crime is. Like, I'm sure people ran like the Boston bomber. It's crazy. What do you think?
Well, OK, so I was looking into this and there's a woman named Sheila Eisenberg and she wrote a book called Women Who Love Men Who Kill. And it's about it's about women who write to men in prison. And that's because that's just a more common phenomenon. I think the reason partially is because. More men kill. Yeah, men kill. Yeah, exactly. I mean women are only I look up looked up stats for this women are only 5% of the prison population and men the offenders
of murdered 90% of the time. So it's just. Like, I didn't know it was that dramatic. Holy. Crap. It's kind of. And I think a lot of the time when women are murderers, it's self-defense or not murderers. But wow, Yeah. And but also gender norms kind of plays into that as well. One reason this might be is because of stereotypes that women are, you know, caregivers
and nurturers and empathetics. So society might be more accepting of them, extending compassion and forgiveness to men who've committed crimes, even though I think it's crazy. But this woman, this author, she interviewed women and psychiatrists and lawyers and social workers and prison guards to better understand this phenomenon and why it happens.
And she said these are women. Well, first of all, she said that they all come from different backgrounds, like the kind of people who might do this, but the one common thing is that they're all damaged in some way, she said. These are women who've been hurt. And when you're in a relationship with a man in prison, he's in prison. He's not going to hurt you. He can't hurt you. So you're always in a state of control because you're the one who's on the outside.
You're free. You go in and visit them. You can decide whether to accept his collect phone calls. So in a way, Oh my God, the sirens outsider paid actor. So in a way, even though cons are very manipulative, it's still up to the woman to decide how far she wants to go. And she knows she can't be hurt, right? But I think this applies to men as well. I would imagine that the type of man who would write to a woman in prison is probably someone who has been chronically hurt by
women in the past. Might be one of those nice guys, finished last types of guys and he finds himself wanting the power of being a saviour figure for a woman. Yeah. Which is perfect because Gypsy has fantasized about this knight in shining armour fantasy her whole life and. Yeah. So someone like Ryan writing to her, this is his opportunity to be that for a girl when maybe his options are limited in real life. And Gypsy's story is so different from somebody like Charles Manson.
I mean, no one really sees Charles Manson as like, oh, poor thing, you know, Like, you know, he's a really bad guy. But like with Gypsy, there is room to sympathize with her and think that she's been, it's yeah, she's been trapped her whole life and she's trapped again in prison. And it it's definitely more of like a saviour thing. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, no. I mean, she still seems very innocent, even though she was. Yeah. Responsible for a murder, she
said. In the prison confessions, my mother always told me I would never find love for myself, I would never find happiness with another person. But that didn't stop me from trying. So I wrote him back. And then Ryan was on his lunch break at school and opened his inbox to an e-mail from Gypsy, requesting him to e-mail her back. And he was absolutely shocked because he did not expect that
she would write him. And then he went back into the office at school and told his Co workers and asked everyone what he should do. And per his friend's advice, he replied and wrote a really lengthy e-mail basically about his whole life. And from the documentary, it seems like because Gypsy was a very public figure, simply getting response from her made him feel incredibly special. In the documentary, he keeps repeating, what made you choose
me like that? It seems like he is not someone who got a lot of attention from women. And so, like, I don't want to say, like, he doesn't really care about Gypsy as the person she is, but I think Gypsy, the celebrity in a way, was really so exciting for him. Right. Understandable. And then starting in May 2020, they would start writing letters back and forth to each other. Wow. But after a year and a a year and two months, Ryan finally visited Gypsy in prison for the first time.
He lived in Louisiana, so it was a 14 hour drive. But still, that's a really long time, a year and a half. Yeah, yeah. But it is far. Yeah. And I guess it was the pandemic too. Yeah, might have been pools about 10. Hours. Yeah. No, Yeah. During the pandemic it definitely was like, I mean I don't know if this would get in the way of his love, but it definitely was like a no no to travel far to see people so
also. Might not have been allowed, not that I'm thinking of it. Maybe so they finally met. Yes, after first meeting, Gypsy said. I walked into the room and I thought, wow, he's a lot more handsome than in the pictures. So we had four hours to sit and talk together. We had this connection that seems so seamless, so easy. This is something I never thought that I would have after everything that has happened. But it's interesting she says that because she did have that
with somebody else. That's true. And he broke up with her and she was heartbroken and she said that he was her first great love. So I feel like she's kind of changing the film a little bit. Maybe after that ended she had, like, given up, Yeah. Maybe that's true. Be in love. I feel like I've have. I have felt that way after all my breakups. Like I'm never going to find love again. That is so.
Four months after first meeting, Gypsy called Ryan and asked him where he wanted the relationship to go, She said. After meeting you, I can say I have romantic feelings for you. I was a little smitten with you. And so then, on Ryan's third visit to the prison, he snuck in an engagement ring. Oh my God. Wearing it around his neck as a necklace and after getting engaged, Gypsy called her stepmom Christy to tell her the news. And Christy went silent for a full 30 seconds.
And then she said don't get married. And she encouraged Gypsy to live with Ryan 1st, to see where things would go and to not rush into it. But one of the stipulations of being on parole is that you cannot live with someone who's not a family member. So there was a logistical reason why Gypsy wanted to marry him. But. I do. Think they didn't really have to live together, I guess, while she was on parole. Yeah, I mean, why not just? Date. Yeah, because my opinion again,
this is their life. But my opinion is I feel like dating someone while they're in prison doesn't really allow you to accurately see what that relationship would be like in the real world. Like you don't get to see the person in an everyday setting. Like Gypsy has no yeah, she's 250 other people writing her letters. But like, there's no other temptations. You're not doing normal things. All of their core correspondence and communication, it's monitored.
Your time with them is limited. You only have a handful of visiting hours every few months. I feel like you wouldn't really know each other's true self. I agree. You've never been alone with him without guards around. Like, what if he's violent or something? You can have all the trusts in the world, but I understand why her stepmom was up until the day before the wedding was like, don't do it. I'm I'm curious if you had AI feel like you wouldn't have a family member in this situation
or a friend. But if you did, would you be honest with them and tell them don't do it? I know it is exact same situation, exact same. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I would have the guts to hurt them so much and say flat out like don't do it. But I do think I would say, like, I think you should think about it or, you know, why not wait, I definitely would want to put that out there because I would be nervous for this person that they're rushing into something.
And yeah, and also you. Yeah, I mean, I think I probably would say something because also, Gypsy hasn't even been. Not only has she not, like dated. Yeah, life. Like she's never been a free person her whole life. I think Gypsy's kind of obsessed with the idea of having a romantic relationship and really wants a happily ever after. But she was under confinement by her mom her whole life. She never really got to be an adult. And then she's in prison for
like 8 years. So yeah, then immediately be married. Upon getting out of prison, she never has the opportunity to just go on regular dates and like, live her life. Yeah. I asked you guys, technically they didn't meet in person before getting engaged, but only a handful of times. And like I said, never alone without security around. So I said, do you think you're capable of falling in love with someone that you've never met in person, but you know more, so
spend time with them. And on our Patreon, 51% of people said yes and 49% of people said no. So it's really 5050 basically. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I was thinking about this question this evening and I was just going to such the holes in my mind just thinking like what even is in love going back to Charles, whatever in love means? No. But really like sometimes I struggle with that concept. Like, is it just a feeling? You know?
Because sometimes, sometimes the most in love you feel is like the beginning of relationships when you don't even know somebody that well. So could you be in love with someone without meeting them in person? I know it is all internal. It's not like you just take a temperature and a number comes up and it's like, oh, that's it. You're officially in love. Like if you believe you are in love, are you? Is that all it is? I know. I don't know, man.
I feel like the older I get, the less I know. And even during this podcast feel like the less I know. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things like how who do you, who are you to say, like if someone says, like, I'm in love? Exactly. Can you say no, you're not? Like, I don't know anyway. Gypsy's dad seemed pretty chill about it, though, He said. Wow, he said. I wish they would wait a little bit, but I figure it's marriage.
It's a piece of paper. They can get a divorce after they don't have any kids or any assets. I just want her to be happy, I know. That's a little too chill. I mean, I don't blame him for saying that, though, 'cause it's like, we don't really know this guy. And like she only met him like three times and now they're engaged and like. She's Why even, like, why even think like, oh, you could get divorced? I know. Exactly. I know. So then we're in 2022 and three months before the wedding, in
prison. In the prison confessions, Ryan says he plans to financially support Gypsy when she gets out of prison and the way a good husband should. He says. Part of me thinks that sometimes Gypsy might need saving, but at the same time, I need saving too. She saved me as much as I saved her. She deserves the best, especially with everything that's happened. Like I said, I do think they both seem to have a slightly unrealistic view of marriage being like a happily ever after
fairy tale. Like this is just such an abnormal conversation offered to people who are getting engaged, so heightened and dramatic they haven't really had the opportunity to actually talk about the day-to-day stuff and see each other. In that way, all of their relationship is waiting for the future in some way. But they haven't ever actually just lived in the present moment together, right? You know. That's so true, Mel, and I think that is a problem with long
distance relationships. And I feel like you could define a prison relationship as a long distance relationship Sometimes I don't. I think it depends on the distance, but like that movie like crazy, remember? Yeah. Their whole relationship was just so much about someday, you know, that I feel like when spoiler at the end, when they're finally together, it's kind of like, oh, you know, we don't even really know each other. Yeah, exactly. It's all just been like a dream.
I mean, even in the documentary they're like, they're like we don't countdown every single day, but like once a week we have a countdown of like how many days until she's out of prison. And it's like the whole thing is just longing. And so I feel like it's so easy to put that life together up on a pedestal when you. Haven't. Actually had a life together
yet? Like usually if you're getting married, it's because it should be because you already like the life that you're living together currently. Yeah, and then I I think that when things are so high end and like such a fantasy on a pedestal, the first few times your partner disappoints you or is boring or whatever, you know, this is mundane. I think that can be like crushing exactly when really it shouldn't be, but like when when the reality sets in, that will be like even harder.
To harder and also feel more dramatic because like, oh, I made a commitment to this person. Do I really want this? Like, the stakes are just a lot higher for it to be perfect. So I'm worried about them. I'm worried, guys. Before the wedding, Gypsy actually revealed to Ryan that she had a phone conversation with her ex fiance Ken three weeks prior, and that she also had a dream that she left Ryan for him. This. Very open of her. Very open, but this led to a major fight in the prison
confessions, Ryan said. It hurts because it's one of those things where she keeps telling me, well, I've put that behind me. I think now that the wedding's coming up, it's one of those things where I worry that she'll leave me for him. Like, dude, I don't know. This is my friend and he's getting married to someone who's in prison. Yeah. For murder. And he's like kind of worried about some other man like, I don't know, I know. What are we doing? Here. Yeah. Wow.
On the one hand, that is nice of her to, I guess, OK, put a pin in the word nice. I don't know if it is. It's interesting that she's being so open, and you could say that's admirable. But also at the same time, it's like, would somebody with more experience think, like, maybe I shouldn't tell him that? Like I had a dream about my ex, You know, Is that really worth sharing? I don't know. I so OK. Later on Gypsy went on Nick Files podcast.
He's a former Bachelor and she he said, oh, Ryan went on there with her and they both admitted in the episode that Gypsy was purposely emotionally taxing and that she would purposely put Ryan through all these tests to see if he would stay kind of in a self sabotage way. Like she would purposely push on Ryan's insecurities and say really awful things to him just to test him to see if she could trust him.
But I don't think, see, that to me is someone who probably isn't ready for marriage, to be honest. I mean, like she hasn't lived a life outside of prison as an adult. And Ryan said. I used to say she'd push me off a Cliff and then she'd peek over and say, are you still there? Oh my gosh. And Nick Vile asks him on the podcast, was there ever a moment where it's too much and you just couldn't do it? And he says honestly, no, because he just knew. He said they he knew that they had it.
And he says, I would say you pushed me off the Cliff, but you've seen those people who put tents on a Cliff and they nail it to the Cliff, like basically saying that he's like in it for the long haul and he means it, which is nice. But also it's like, again, like I said in the beginning, like, is this a guy who like hasn't had luck in love before and maybe is a little desperate? I hate to say it, but like, I just, I don't think that sounds like a good dynamic. Guys. Yeah, I'm.
Worried. So also about this thing with her ex Gypsy told Ryan that the conversation with Ken, the recent conversation, it gave her closure and that she wanted to go through with the wedding. And she reassured Ryan by saying I'll never be some blonde, fake ass, prissy ass bimbo that he's interested in. We're not going to stay in touch with each other anymore. Which I feel like to me that wouldn't be that reassuring because it's not like it's not
like I'm over him. It's like I'll never be the girl he wants. But if I was. But if I, yeah, exactly. Then you would be. Together. Yeah, that doesn't really interesting, make it sound like it's even her decision. But they went through with the wedding. They got married on July 21st, 2022 in a small prison ceremony with no guests. You know, Gypsy, she's wearing her prison garb. It's not really fancy. It's in prison like it's. Yeah.
Not ideal. And because of prison rules, the wedding band had to be less than $100. Ryan got her a rose gold band because of her name, Gypsy Rose, and the two wrote their own vows to each other, and in the prison confessions, they both read them. So I'll read them to you guys, Ryan said. Gypsy Rose, my gorgeous snuggles. You were the the most woman that I've ever known. The most woman that I've ever known. Did I transcribe that right? To me, that sounds like he
hasn't known many women before. Weird. Yeah. Or was it supposed to be the most beautiful? I don't know. I think it's. You are the most woman that I've ever known. Huh. OK. Even after all of our time together, I still fall more and more in love with you with each passing day. When you walked into the visiting room the first time, I realized at that moment I was meeting the love of my life. Every time I hear your voice, my heart skips a beat. I will always be here for you.
No matter what life throws your way. My love for you will never stop growing. You are my best friend. My love, my life, my heart. You are my everything. Marrying you today is the happiest moment of my life and I know our future together and our love for each other will be endless and everlasting. I love you with all of my heart and soul. Wow, very sweet. But I kind of hate when, and I not everyone's a writer, but I hate when people don't put
specific things in there. I know we're using some cliches there, you know, like, I mean, he mentioned that when you first walked in in the visiting room. Yeah, cliches. Yeah. The visiting room is like the most specific thing. And it's like a prison thing, you know? I know, yeah. What's even the point of writing your own vows if you're just going to be cliche? I know. I like. I hate. Yeah sorry, I funerals. I never want to hear that they lit up a room like let's something new please.
Then Gypsy said, my no. You do light up a room, though. Oh. So do you, Kel. That's so sweet. You're too shy. Oh, you do. You're sunshine. Oh, anyway, Gypsy, she said. My darling love. Today I stand before you, taking in every detail of all that you are. Your smile, your eyes. The way you look at me. The man I came to call my best friend. I now call my husband. With all the life has, with all that life has to offer. I vow to be yours. I love you with all of my heart
and soul. Your wife, Gypsy Rose Anderson. That was nice. Sweet, yeah. Kept it short and simple. It wasn't that like specific, but it was eloquent. It was eloquent, Yeah. I like the. I take in every detail. I really liked that. One, I like hearing the vows. Can we get that again someday? I know I like it. I know we don't usually get that insight. I guess it's a 2 private. Would you Now I'm I'm going to a lot of weddings this year, so this has been on my mind.
Would. You write your own vows like I would write them, but would you recite them in front of everybody at your wedding? Well, I have never really thought about it much and I don't really. I don't know why. I I guess I just never really. I don't know. I I never thought about it. I guess I always thought I would just have kind of a traditional wedding and my boyfriend, who I don't know, I think might happen someday, I don't know. I feel we're talking about this
stuff. He He for some reason has a lot of opinions about it and he doesn't want to write his own vows, so. Interesting. Why is that he? Well, I'm not saying I agree with him. Again, I don't really have an opinion on it. I think it's cool when people write them. I don't know why he thinks it's like show offy or something. I think it can be a little performing. I agree.
I I don't know. I was talking about this with my boyfriend a couple weeks ago at a wedding and I was like, I don't think I was like, I wouldn't want to recite my own vows. I would write them and maybe say it in private, but I wouldn't want to do it in front of everyone. I feel like, yeah, I feel too awkward. But then I thought, there is something really brave about in front of a ton of people declaring your love for someone and being that vulnerable.
Like, it is very courageous. Yeah, we don't really do that a lot in life. Have those moments like that. So it is really special. Yeah, I How wait. How do we get this? These vows were in the documentary. Yeah, they read them in the like, we didn't see the wedding, but they like they read us on camera, The bows. I see. And narration, Yeah, I agree. That is brave.
I mean, I guess even if you do the traditional vows to say that in front of everybody, it's making it really official and bringing everybody into it. Yeah, I mean, at weddings, I always completely believe the couple that they're like all in, that this is their lifetime, they're madly in love, they're best friends, like something is crazy. Sometimes it doesn't work out because on the wedding day they seem 110% sure. I know. They always like, convince me that this.
Is everlasting, I know. It's crazy when it doesn't work out. I know, Tricked me. Especially when it runs like very soon after the wedding, it's like what happened? I know. Which does happen. We've covered that. Yep. So after the wedding, he called her from the parking lot and they spoke on the phone about the wedding like they were, you know, she's in prison. Yeah. So he's like, go in the parking lot. And they were like, Oh my gosh, that was amazing. Like, oh, like, it's kind of
sad. And he by himself drove away with a just married sign on the car. That's sad. I know they do plan to have a redo wedding eventually in the future with their friends and friends and family and six months after, he said in the prison confessions. It's awful having a wife that you can't touch on the daily. The reality is me and Gypsy are in limbo. We are waiting to start our life. But if I'm betting on a relationship, I'm betting on success, I'm betting on kids. The full 9. Wow.
Wow. So then, on December 28th, 2023, Gypsy was released on parole after spending eight years behind bars of her 10 year sentence, so she must have been on her best behavior in prison. Ryan, along with Gypsy's dad, her stepmother Christy, and her half sister rented a house near the prison and decorated it with a Christmas tree. And Ryan went to pick her up. And her dad, he seems like such a sweetheart in the documentary, he says it's like I'm having a
new baby. And he says he's a little bumped, that Ryan got to pick her up and not him. But he's like, it's all good. You know, like I'll get this year soon. When Ryan picks Gypsy up from prison. There, she's laughing about how her new post prison outfit doesn't fit. It's kind of funny. She, like, gets in the car and she's like, my boots don't fit, nothing fit. He's like, she's laughing and then she's overwhelmed with joy just being in a car and she's like, it's going so fast.
It's kind of making you realize, like she has not really been like a real person and. It is. Per her parole, Gypsy must go to therapy. If she can't drink any alcohol, she can't do drugs. And like I said, she can't have any contact with Nicholas and she needs to ask for permission to leave the state of Louisiana. And so they actually Gypsy and Ryan were supposed to go to a Kansas City Chiefs game in Missouri.
Oh. But Gypsy had said an interview how she really wanted to meet Taylor Swift, and this might not be the reason for it. But then immediately Gypsy's Missouri parole officer was like, you have to leave Missouri immediately, you have to go right back to Louisiana. So she doesn't know why that is. But she wasn't allowed to go to the Kansas City Chiefs game and on Nick Biles podcast she was speculating it was because Taylor Swift or whatever, like people started that like became a headline.
And then there were all these articles that were like convicted felon murderer Gypsy Rose really wants to meet Taylor Swift at the Chiefs game and spun it into this like dramatic thing. What the heck, Taylor should meet her. I know. Do it. I know Taylor. That would be iconic. Yeah. Also, what's she going to do? Stab you? She's like. No.
That would be crazy. Soon after being released, Gypsy and Ryan posted a lot of cute selfies of each other to their Instagram, and they began doing a lot of press interviews. I was thinking, I feel like it would be difficult doing all that press while also being together for the very first time. Yeah. That's so overwhelming. Like just being together for the first time is a lot, but then to now suddenly be influencers all at once. I don't know if that's a good
recipe, I agree. But yeah, like I said, they went on Nick Files podcast, they did a lot of podcasts and interviews like Entertainment Tonight and all these different things, Ryan jokes in that Nick Vile podcast about well. So Gypsy says it's been very enjoyable. We spent a couple days at home. I don't think there's anything that really shocked me about him. But then she goes on to say that he's getting used to putting the
toilet seat down for her. And then Ryan is like talking about how Gypsy is on his case, about the toilet seat. And then he's like, just as I'm on my way to buy her shoes, buy her new shoes. He's kind of rolling his eyes as if he's spending a lot of money on her and being kind of demanding. It's all like cute little banter, but I don't know, something kind of was weird about it to me at the same time. Like is is this really a joke, or is this actually bothering you?
Yeah, sure. I think the the the thing about as I'm on my way to buy her shoes, I don't like the comment of like as I'm spending money on her. Basically she doesn't have a job. But you said you're married, You said you were going to support her. That's true. But I was going to ask you the toilet seat because this came up with my boyfriend recently because he at his place, the toilet seat is always up after he goes to the bathroom.
But he just told me that he's making more of an effort to put it down. And I was raised in a house where my mom reinforced and my brothers, like, always put the toilet, toilet seat back down because US women, like, sometimes we might fall in and we don't realize it's still up. That has happened to me once or twice. So my brothers were always really good about it. Sometimes their friends weren't really.
But then I my boyfriend, he was like, well, I mean, if I'm just home, it's a lot quicker for me to just leave it up because most of the time I'm just peeing. Yeah. But I don't know, is this too personal that could does this come up in your relationship? The toilet seat. No, I think, I mean, Charlie has two sisters, so I think he also is very good about it. I think whenever I'm gone for a while, I notice it's still up. But yeah, it's been pretty much
no problem. Yeah, it always, I guess the guys have to do it. They have to touch the seat, but it always grosses me out to put it in. Grosses. Me out so much, actually in public restrooms. Oh my God, that shouldn't. When it grosses me out, I always like take a piece of toilet paper to hold it and put it down or something. Yeah. That grosses me out, yeah. The toilet seat thing is like a very classic couple banter
thing. It's a very surface level safe thing to if like someone asks you like what problems you have in your relationship and it's like, oh the toilet seat, that's true. It's not like, oh, she has trust issues and constantly is pointing out my insecurities and I don't know if I believe that her ex is out of the picture. It's like, it's like it's very. Surface. Level. But I was getting like I was getting a lot of that from their interviews, like just kind of
surface level stuff, you know? And it's hard to tell like. So they are definitely still getting to know each other.
Yeah, they are. Nick Vile asked them if they've considered couples therapy, and Gypsy says that she's been looking for a couple therapists ever since she was in prison, and that while she was locked up, she was inspired by a lot of marriage podcasts and that she would frequently send them to Ryan. Ryan kind of has this, like, I don't know, I feel like he thinks he's like really like this, like cool guy. Sorry if that's me being a little mean, but he's like, yeah, it's cool.
Here's another podcast, like in like kind of like a manly podcast or something. I don't know. Yeah. And that he said that he's been a little overwhelmed by the fame and that she's always a little worried that he's going to leave because of it, which, you know, might relate to what happened with that guy Ken, but then adds, But I'm not going anywhere. We'll work through whatever we'll work through. I'm here for the long haul till death do us part. I mean that. And again, he says.
That people could listen. Oh, sorry, I didn't know people could listen to podcasts in prison. Yeah, I don't know that either. Is anybody listening from prison? Let us know. Oh, hi, guys. Tell us, like, who's writing You love letters in prison? Yeah, I mean, again, like, also, I feel like in prison you're so lonely that, like, you probably could fall in love with anybody. I hate to say it. Yeah. Totally.
Anyone who's giving you consistent attention and being really sweet like you really don't know for sure that that connection is genuine until you get out into the real world I. Really felt that way. Like during the pandemic. Like when I wasn't really socializing at all, I would just see like a random guy on the street and be like, Oh my God, he has legs like he's hot. I know you know the same thing. It's easy. I can imagine. Yeah, I feel like it's really easy to let fantasies like to
let them carry you away. Meanwhile, Ryan said that it's been great that there isn't anything that he hasn't enjoyed about Gypsy. He said she's incredibly organized and wants to wants to make her feel sure that she knows that his home is her home. You know, like I said though, they were very much in the public spotlight this past month. Ryan was getting a lot of trolls and haters online after Gypsy's release. Mostly, a lot of people were saying that he kind of looked
like her mom. Oh my God, yeah. I don't know if I would say that, but like a lot of people were like, is this a controlling relationship? Like is this, you know, another situation? People were very suspicious of this, Gypsy commented on Instagram by saying, Ryan, don't listen to the haters. I love you and you love me. We do not owe anyone anything. Our family is who matters. If you get likes and good comments, great. If you get hate then whatever
because they don't matter. I love you because they jealous because and then she then she adds. Besides, they jealous because you are rocking my world every night. Yeah, I said it. The D is buyer, happy wife, happy life. Oh my gosh. Very sweet, very sweet. That's. Nice. She's stuck. Up, Yeah. I mean, that's a really sweet. It's funny because there's this like one in a media person who went up to Gypsy Rose and was like, what do you have to say to all the haters?
And Gypsy was like, what? I've been trying to work on this impersonation, but it's not really good. She's like, well, can't bring me down. I'm on a high right now. I'm living my best life and y'all can't take that from me. And then the first one goes and the D is fire. My God. I'm on a high right now. Can't bring me down. Oh, that hurt my throat doing that. Oh. No. But then Ryan replied and said who said he also has like a
thick Southern accent. He's like, who said I'd give a damn about No, that's kind of not really accurate. It's like a slow accent. It's like, who said I'd give a damn about what these jealous people say in anyway? Ha ha. Now come get it, baby. Oh my God. Dot dot. So he's not bothered by it, but he is rocking her world. It's interesting. Yeah, I feel like I knew very little about this. And all I had heard was people being worried that, like, he was taking advantage of her and
manipulating her. And that could be true. But it also sounds like she could be doing that back. You know what? It's interesting you say that because I have a clip for you that is getting people a little worried for Ryan. OK. So in the clip, Gypsy is answering a question and then Ryan interjects and you can hear Gypsy whisper telling him to shut up while squeezing his hand, which is a tactic her mother used to do to her back when they were out in public
together. OK. Should I watch it? Yes, for everything. And now I feel like, oh, I went from 19 to 32. Jeez, God, I got old so quick. How did that happen? You never went to school either? Mm hmm. That's true. You didn't go to school, so there wasn't, you know, this lineage. It does look like she said shut up. Mm hmm. Don't you see how his head drops after she says that too? And he was saying something like support, I think supportive to say like you didn't know because
you didn't go to school. I mean, I even said that earlier, like she didn't go to school, so she wouldn't have known how old she was. Yeah, I mean, I could give her the benefit of the doubt. It could be like a shut up like, like, oh, shut up like. But it's like, that's not really. He wasn't like mocking her anything. Like you said he was supporting her. So like, why? Why is she telling him to shut up? And she's whispering it too, so it's not really.
Yeah, she didn't say it in like a joking, sarnostic way. It's. Sad because I feel bad for Gypsy like she had been, you know, abused and victimized her whole life. But the way that her mother treated her is all she really knows. I mean, she had no normal relationships at all. Like she didn't even really have a relationship with her dad, even though she seems to have a health healthy relationship with him now and her stepmom. That's all she knows.
Holy crap. And you can't discount what kind of damage that might have done to her and how that might influence her in a relationship now. Like, especially with needing control over a partner. I don't know. It feels like, I mean if I couldn't really tell, but like if she was doing the hand squeezing thing that is just so disturbing. It's like she's just re living or reacting out the way her mom was. Yeah, but you know, they want to
have kids someday. And I hope that Gypsy has had the therapy and the work that she's able to have a normal relationship on having kids, she said. The kind of mother that I envision myself being is absolutely different from my own mother. I feel like I know everything not to do. So hopefully Gypsy has some self-awareness, but I'm sure those things are hard to unlearn, especially even just on an unconscious level. And maybe there are times when she. I mean that happens with a lot
of people. Like they've they are aware of their parents fault and then they find themselves repeating the same thing, 'cause that's all they've known. But yeah, that is Gypsy Rhodes and Ryan Anderson. Ryan Anderson Oh my gosh, I hope that they both are OK and I hope for the best for them. I hope for the best, but my percentage unfortunately not super high. Are there odds that they stay together? No. What would you say? I'm going to give them 20%. Yeah, I guess.
Me too. I hope she's not listening. I know. I do wish them the best and I think that it's not impossible. I think that they can work things out. I wow, that was really fascinating. Thank you Mel. I I as I said I hadn't really looked too much into it but now I want to I It is. You know, it's disturbing everything that happened with her mom, but now it definitely feels like a new story, more about them as a couple and. Yeah, I mean, it's really different from any of the
couples we've covered. I like I. Totally. Different. I want the best. They both seem like hopeless romantics. They really want love and they seem sweet in their interviews recently. Besides that shut up thing, I hope that means nothing. I hope we're overthinking it. And I just it's just it started on shaky ground, so the odds are against them. But. We'll have to keep watching what's happening. Maybe we'll have an update someday. Wow. Thanks, Mel. Sorry this went over an hour.
Hope your voice is OK. I'm going to take a hot shower after this, but next week also really, really messy. Another you know, kind of story that's been in the headlines the past year, past two years. I would say it's newsworthy. Oh, OK. I think I know who it is. Well, you had told me a couple ideas, but I didn't know for sure what it was. So cool. All right, Well, thank you so much, Mel. And thank you everybody listening and. We'll get back together next week. Yep. Bye is your.
Heartbeat with pain.