Are you lonesome tonight? Do you miss me tonight? Are you sorry? Hi guys. Welcome back to Significant Lovers. I'm Mel. And I'm Kel. We're two cousins. Two cousins and best friends and we love talking about love. I truly do. I'm so excited to be here. This is our first episode of the New year well that we've recorded in the New year and it feels like it's been a while. Yeah, because it kind of has when. It does, yeah. So thanks everybody for listening.
Who are we talking about today, Mel? So today we are talking about model and entrepreneur Karlie Kloss and her husband, Joshua Kushner. Billionaire Joshua Kushner, also entrepreneur. He is most famous probably for being the younger brother of Jared Kushner, the son-in-law and former advisor to Donald Trump. And I feel like this couple, someone from recommended this couple a couple months ago.
They're intriguing, I think, for multiple reasons, like one because of that political connection and the controversy that is tied to that, but also the distance that they have tried to establish for themselves from the Trump administration while also being very closely related to Jared and Ivanka, and also, of course, the conspiracies about Karlie Kloss and Taylor Swift. And you know, that's not going to be a big part of this episode because Full disclosure, I'm not
a Gaylor. I'm not, you know, we we just did our Larry episode. I can understand. Yeah, that was last. Week. Yeah, I can understand, you know, how people fall down those rabbit holes, but that's not going to be a part of this episode. So Gaylor is the theory. Anyone that doesn't know? Because a lot of people don't know. I know, yeah. The theory, the conspiracy theory that Taylor Swift, the singer, I mean, I think everyone knows who she is, had a relationship with Karlie. Kloss.
Yes. But all of that takes place during the timeline in which Karlie Kloss was dating Joshua Kushner. So I I did a little research to be like, OK, like why do people then believe that they were dating and she clearly had a boyfriend, but people think that Josh is secretly gay and that Carly was his.
Oh Oh my gosh. Actually after 'cause I was editing the Larry episode recently and then I went on YouTube. I've done this before, but I was watching a lot of Larry clips and I got to say, if anyone it's still skeptical, I urge you to go watch some videos of Larry because it was convincing me. Yeah, I actually think I really believe it now. I mean, there's some of the parts to Caitlin didn't mention. I was like, what the heck, why didn't you mention this? But I guess there's just too
much. But anyway, I'm getting sidetracked. Before we get into the episode, you know, on the podcast, we've talked a lot about how mental health can affect relationships and we recently learned of an organization that is doing a lot of important work to combat OCD in relationships. Yeah, it's called no CD. And you know, OCD is more than what you see on TV and in the
movies. If you imagine having unwanted thoughts about your relationship stuck in your head all day, no matter how hard you try to make them go away, that's relationship OCD, which I feel like is a less known about type of OCD, but it comes with unrelenting intrusive images, thoughts and urges about your partner, a loved one. And breaking the OCD cycle takes effective treatment. You can go to no CD, so that's NOCD dot com to get evidence
based treatment. And on no CD you can book a call with a face to face licensed therapist. And no CD is sponsored by most insurance companies. So yeah, it's a really cool organization that I feel like is pretty relevant to our show and anybody that's struggling with a breakup. If you know someone, a loved one that is maybe having issues with relationship OCD, then you should tell them about no CD. But I have listened to some podcasts about the Taylor Carly theory and I haven't really been
convinced yet. But I'm intrigued to hear a little bit more also about like what Carly was also doing otherwise in her life, you know? I feel like people don't really see Carly as her own person. They see her as an extension. And I feel like people really don't like Carly because they're suspicious of her, maybe because they think, you know, she's so, you know, tightly associated with the Trump family.
And then also obviously it seems like there was some type of falling out with Taylor Swift and so that makes people automatically not like her. But I will say that I can totally see why Carly and Taylor were good friends, because they're both really tall, they're both blonde, he kind of look alike. And they both they do to have very much a business focus to them and their personalities just seem very similar. So I don't really sense anything romantic, just more like twins in a way.
Mm hmm. I really don't know anything about this couple, so I'm really intrigued all. Right. Well, let's get into it. So, Carly, She was born August 3rd, 1992 in Chicago. She's the second child among four daughters. Her parents were Tracy, a freelance director, and her dad, Kurt, was an ER doctor. And when she was just we toddler, her family moved to Saint Louis and she grew up studying ballet. She always saw herself becoming a professional dancer and she was also on the cheerleading
squad at her high school. Oh. Cheerleader. Yeah, you know, Miss Popular. And then at 14, Carly was at the mall when a modeling agent approached her, which I feel like always is happening. I know. What the heck? Models. People just come up to them and say, wow, you're gorgeous, you should do some modeling. And so they recommended that she walk in a charity runway fashion show. And then that led her to getting booked for her first modeling job for Calvin Klein.
And she would then go back and forth between Saint Louis and New York for modeling gigs before permanently relocating to New York City, I think at like 15 or 16. And by 15, she had walked in over 64 fashion shows for designers like Alexander Wang, Marc Jacobs, Christian Dior and Dolce and Gabbana. And to describe Carly, she's described herself or others have described her as a homebody. She loves baking cookies. Like, see, that's so Taylor Swift to me. She's described herself as being
a big math and science nerd. I've read that she's very kind, but I do get the sense that she's very media trained. She's very polished. Like a lot of her interviews seem a little scripted, but that's OK. Like you want to. I can see that thing. Yeah, you know the like interview. Not to bring up Taylor Swift one more time, but like the interview she does like a 76 questions, like Vogue thing. Carly. Yeah, you know, the, you know, when the Vogue videos, were they like, oh, yes, yes, yes.
I mean, I think most of those are scripted. But the guy asks her like, what's the truth about you and Taylor Swift? And she goes, The world wants to know, or Jennifer Lawrence wants to know because, like, Jennifer Lawrence made a joke about it one time and she's like, don't worry, Jen, We're still good friends. It's like, OK, no, like, that's not people really do want to know you're not that stupid. But I. Hate how scripted those things are, but some people's do feel
more or less scripted. Yeah. Oh my. It's kind of embarrassing watching those. It's. It's so interesting, you know, just thinking about different personalities of people that become famous and like, who are the people that want to be, you know, put themselves out there and be wacky and weird, whatever. And then there's some people that just want to, you know, be professional, just not really express themselves that much. They're just getting by on saying nice things and.
I mean, yeah, it's like mysterious. Yeah. I watched the Simone Biles Vogue one and she seems so sweet, but it's so awkward because she just answers the question. But that's realistically how a lot of people probably would because like, she's an athlete. She's not trying to be like character. But when you watch other people's like Taylor Swift's or like Lively's or something, they're really trying to go for some type of personality here. But anyway, anyways, yeah, I
would say she's polished. She seems pretty driven and like I said, also pretty business oriented. I don't know much about her, but even I know that she had some stem. Yep. Coding thing. She's doing that will come up because I feel like that is heavily influenced by her relationship with Josh. Oh, OK and to be?
Honest. I don't even know if he goes by Josh. I'm just going to call him Joshua. He's born June 12th, 1985, and he was born into a family of real estate developers, starting with his grandfather Joseph Kushner, who had escaped the Holocaust. And then he founded what would become a huge real estate profile of over 4000 apartment buildings in New Jersey. And he then left those properties to his sons, one of which was named Charles Kushner,
who is Josh's Joshua's dad, who founded Kushner Companies, which grew to include commercial and residential properties in New York City, which is now worth around $2 billion. Wow, so Chuck Bass. Really.
Chuck Bass? And so Charles and his wife Sarah had four kids, Dara, Jared, Nicole and Joshua and Joshua and his siblings were raised in an incredibly affluent town called Livingston, NJ, and they were raised as Modern Orthodox Jews. And he told Forbes in 2012 that on holidays his dad would take him to construction sites to hunt for potential real estate, saying the idea was when everyone is relaxing, you should be working. The ball doesn't come to you. So intense.
I know, really intense. I feel like they had a very buttoned up, very rigid childhood and the family is going to come up throughout this episode and this is going to be the theme of the episode. It's like, you know, you don't just marry a person, you marry their family. And like, to what degree is that important to you if you don't really like the family? But yeah, it seems like they were pretty strict about the standards that they had for
their kids. Yeah, I believe he attended Fresh High School, which is a Modern Orthodox private school. That I say, I believe because I know that his older brother Jared did, But not much is known about Josh. He's definitely the quieter sibling of the two. Well, there's four above the two brothers. And then in 2004, he enrolled in Harvard University as a government and political science major.
And I guess I don't know if this is relevant for Josh, but five years earlier his older brother Jared also went to Harvard, one year after their parents had made a $2.5 million donation to the school. And so I don't know if they also made a donation for Josh attending the school. But it just seems like this is a family that has a lot of money and they're going to do what they can to, you know, have their kids get ahead. Right.
Hello, Harvard. Yo. Yeah, they they probably are getting any Kushner in Harvard. Yeah, if they want to exactly. So, Gossip Girl. I know, it's really Gossip Girl. And so this was also around the time when Mark Zuckerberg was at Harvard and had. Oh my gosh, the Facebook. That's so exciting. I know. And so everyone at this point was like trying to come up with a business in their dorm rooms.
And so together Josh with his two classmates, pulled together around $10,000 to create a social network company called Vostu, which was a Facebook alternative targeted towards Brazil. And it flocked. But it later became a Brazilian gaming app, and because of this business, he rarely attended classes and would often be flying back and forth from, my God, Latin America. Yeah, I don't know if that's still the craze, but there definitely was a time period when it was.
So like all these people in college, including like Elizabeth Holmes, the I forget what her business is called, but it was like the thing to do to be at a prestigious school and come up with a business while you're there and drop out. Yeah, I kind of hate that. I would be so like finish, you know? Yeah, just finish. Like just enjoy school. I don't know. I I would just be so unattracted to that if I was like like.
And then it just seems like that's all they care about is their stupid little business and making money and. I don't know. Well, I don't know if it's stupid little Mel. I mean, some of these people become like billionaires. I know. I don't know. But, you know, be young and stop trying to be like Bill Gates or something. I don't know. I You're right, though.
They do become successful. So then in 2005, Joshua's dad, Charles he was arrested and sentenced to two years in prison and charged a $40,000 fine for tax evasion, witness tampering and illegal campaign donations. Oh my goodness. Kind of embarrassing, so I'm sorry to keep bringing this up, but so, Nate Archibald. No, yeah, I was just thinking that. Gossip Girl. Yeah. I mean, I haven't watched succession, but is that kind of succession like like people are? No. Kind of, yeah.
I don't think no one goes to prison for that reason. But yeah, kind of, yeah. Covering stuff up, yeah. I almost wonder if Gossip Girl definitely had a lot of real life influences. I wonder if that story maybe was inspired by the Kushner family, because at that point, like they were like a prominent known real estate family. Maybe. So he had other business
ventures. In 2010, at just 24 years old, Josh was loaned $5,000,000 to launch Thrive Capital, which is a venture capital firm focused on media and internal investments. Did you just gasp with the $5,000,000? Yeah, that's crazy. The company was one of the very first investors of Instagram and now has investments in so many large Internet companies including Spotify, GitHub, Slack, Open AI, you name it. And now it's estimated to have a net worth of $3.6 billion.
So very successful. But I will say like he became very like obviously at a $5,000,000 loan, but his success is independent from the real estate company that his family had established. So it seems like he obviously must have some talents and a strong work ethic independent from his family's wealth. Yeah. And I would describe him obviously having an entrepreneurial mindset, very business oriented. Like Carly, he seems kind of serious and also quiet.
He's been described as having boyishly handsome looks and works like a dog. So how would you describe this relationship in three words? Oh, I would say low key, wealthy, obviously. And mysterious. So all right, it's so mysterious that I don't totally know how they met, but they definitely either met or became official in 2000, June of 2012, cause four years later Carly would describe that as their four year anniversary on Instagram. OK, so it's unclear, like, totally how they met.
But they were introduced, seemingly by socialite Derek Blasberg, who's a mutual friend of theirs. Because years later, at their wedding, he would post a photo of them the day they met. And he said, I took this pic The night that Karlie Kloss met Joshua Kushner in 2012. We told Joshua Kushner that Karlie Kloss could dunk a basketball. It was a lie, but their hearts went swish so. Was he tagging him or why was he doing first name? Last name with those flags. OK, I know. Yeah, sorry.
But that's interesting. And in the photo, Josh is wearing a cowboy hat and Carly was wearing Bunny ears. And then an August Instagram founder, Kevin Systrom posted a photo of them embracing on the beach from far away and he captioned it. I think my friend likes her. So that's back in 2012. And remember, like Josh was a very early investor of Instagram and so actually Carly first made her Instagram account June 2012 when she met Josh.
He probably said you gotta invest in this, like you gotta make an account. I'm an investor, so. Yeah, I don't think I I didn't make an account until 2014 or so. Yeah, it took me a while too, but. I was a little late. I remember my friend Lauren was like, you can post selfies on here. Like you can't do that on Facebook. I know I remember at first being so confused, like why do we need a different app just for pictures, but I don't know. I feel like Facebook could have
been great. I don't. I don't know. It's just kind of like the mood changed. But I feel like the platform itself had. Everything there I know, but like the newsfeed changed so much and like everyone's parents got Facebook and it the live just changed. I just spent because my boyfriend just requested me on Facebook. And wow. After a couple months, But I was like, oh gosh, I'm going to clean my Facebook up a little bit before I accept it.
So I just spent about like 30 minutes going through my old Facebook statuses. Not that I think he'd scroll all the way down, but I was like, I don't. I don't know. I gotta. Yeah, I've never done that. I've just kept everything. I was annoyed by how the settings didn't make it easy for me to do it, though I was having trouble. There's like way too much in the settings, but not the tangent. I know, yeah. Anyway, yeah, so many tech
business guys. I know, Yeah, I think that really influences Carly. So then in November, Us Weekly is the first report that Carly and Josh are dating when they attend the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show after party together. And they say after walking the runway in several super skimpy getups, the flawless American born supermodel 20 hit in a after party with a very lucky
guy on her arm. New York City based investor Joshua Kushner, The 27 year old Instagram investor seemed nervous and shy around everyone, but handled it well. Carly is stunning and the sweetest girl ever. She's stuck close to him. All right, sweet happening. Meanwhile, the Daily Mail reports that Carly has purchased her first home in the West Village in order to be close to her new boyfriend. Jealous.
Then we're 2013. Around this time, Josh starts posting a lot of photos of Carly, but they're always like of her back from far away. And he posts a photo of her at Coachella with the caption Coachella. And then they made the yes, yeah. Then they made their first appearance together as a couple at the Robin Hood Foundation Gala in New York City, and they're photographed together throughout New York by paparazzi pretty frequently, but not much is known about them as a couple.
But apparently these years and their relationship were pretty challenging because Joshua's family heavily disapproved of her for one, not being Jewish, and two because she was Victoria's Secret model, which they believed was beneath the family and they This would all be alleged in an expose about the Kushner family, which came out years later in 2019. And apparently the whole family would talk poorly about Karlie behind her back and they would call her the lingerie model.
And Joshua's parents refused to meet her for six years and banned Josh from bringing her to any family functions. Wow, I did not know that. Yeah, and wow. Apparently they also had issues with Ivanka Trump, but they were a lot more open to her because she went to an Ivy League school and she came obviously from another high profile real estate family. So, like, from a business standpoint, she was lucrative to them. Wow. That would be tough for me.
I feel like if I was that early in a relationship. I mean, granted she's so young, I don't know if, if I knew that family like hated me. I don't know if I would be able to keep pushing forward. That would be really hard. Wait, so how old was she around this time? 21 and he's in his late 20s. What you were saying earlier about some people say that he was gay and she was a Taylor Swift. Like, why would she bother with this really difficult family if it was exactly it?
Seems weird to me. If he was gay and needed a cover up, why would he be doing that with like someone his family disapproved of? Yeah, that doesn't make sense. It's already like if if he was gay and he needed to cover up, it'd probably be because of his family. So why would he then date someone that his family hates? Yeah, and if he's super rich and good looking, he could probably find a more convenient cover up. Exactly so.
But I asked you guys, 'cause you know, like when you marry someone, you also marry their family. And so I said, with this in mind, would you still marry someone? We're skipping ahead like they're married now? Spoiler Would you still marry someone even if you hated their family or they hated you, 'cause
like, she's also gonna. There's also gonna be conflict once like the Trump's come in. And interestingly, 37% said yes, true love is worth it, but the majority of people, 63%, said no. I have to protect my peace. Wow wait, I missed this poll, Mel. Yeah, this was a couple hours ago. Quick people. So quick to. Vote. They are. I really want to read some of your responses. We asked this on Patreon, by the way. Sierra said yes or no. It's hard.
I put yes because if your relationship with the person is healthy and they stand up for you and uphold boundaries with their shit family, then it could still work. But if you don't have a good relationship with your own family, you might want to prioritize a good relationship with your partner's family. So then you may have to give it up. And Devin said such a hard question definitely depends on the relationship you have with
your potential spouse. If they're going to stick up for you and be willing to always pick you, then I think true love is worth it. But if there's a chance it'll cause tension between you as a couple, or if your spouse will have resentment over the situation, then probably not worth it. And Aaron said so. If my partner didn't have a good relationship with his family, then it's not their fault and it won't really matter as much if the family hates me or I hate them.
But if they're super close and get on really well and they hate me, then like red flag question mark. I totally agree with everything said. Like I feel like it depends on how much your partner is willing to stick up for you. Yeah, totally it. It would depend. I think if your relationship is already kind of rocky and then that is a thing going on too, then I think it's not worth it. But yeah, I I agree with what
everybody said. Like if you're super in love and if your partner's there for you and sticks up for you or whatever the heck situation is, then yeah, I think, I don't think you would let that get between you. But that's tough. That's tough. I don't know. It's tough for me to tell how close Josh is with his family because he's never said anything
bad about them. But everything I read does indicate that he is very close with his brother Jared, and they just agree to disagree when it comes to politics and the whole Donald Trump of the matter. But regarding his two parents, I I wonder if there is. I mean, I'm sure the Carly situation created conflict, but I wonder if he is not super close with them just because he chose not to go into the family business of real estate and like seemingly has done his own.
Thing that is hard that. I mean, I feel like it would be hard to to be the one that has the difficult family because that's your family. Like even if they are difficult or causing problems, it's a lot to ask someone to. It's it's like impossible I think to ask someone to like not care about your parents or your family. Yeah that's your family. Like you don't have another one. And I know some people do disown their family, but I don't know.
I just think that would be really, really hard, even if you disagree with them on a lot of things. Yeah, exactly like this is only family. Yeah. But. I mean, that's who he calls. If he's like, if he's distressed, if he needs help like that, that's who you go to, you know, like you, you can't like, really replace that. Yeah, exactly. Although I don't know what it's like. Family life is like for the Super elite and rich like that. Like, I wonder if it is a little colder. Me neither.
But this here's the thing and I get it. Like, it is such a cultural thing. Like I'm I'm not a super religious person, but to me it's like, don't you just want your kids to find love? Whoever it might be, That's really how it should be. It's it's always sad to me when parents are like, you know, unaccepting of the their partner for whatever reasons.
I guess religion is yeah, honestly almost seems like religion takes a back seat in this case to just the fact that she was a model because like I said they were pretty accepting of Ivanka eventually. Granted, she also she had to convert in order to get married. But. Well, if they're orthodox, sounds like they're more traditional. So I guess being a model, it goes against like their values. I don't know, maybe that's why.
I think that's a big part of it. But so the couple you know, they continue to date in June. They went to Iceland together on a trip. They posted pictures. Seems like they're having fun together. Travelling in 2014. This is when Carly, I feel like she starts to become more famous because she's very close friends with Taylor at this point and they're hanging out a lot together, which is seemingly a big part of the timeline in the Gaylor lore. And you know what?
It is interesting because I will say Carly doesn't post Josh a lot during this time, pretty much very infrequently. I think he made his first debut on her Instagram in January 2014 with a picture of him that she simply captions at. Joshua Kushner is usually behind the camera, and then she posted a picture of him with his back turned and no hashtags or anything. What does she mean by that? Like, I don't take pictures of him. He takes pictures of me. So yeah, but I don't think that
means anything. Like, we've talked about this several times. What episode even was it? You're talking a lot about how people say. Ariana. Some people don't. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think it means anything. No, I don't. Really, everybody has like their own relationship to. Exactly. Especially like if his parents are still not approving, you might be keeping it on the down low. Yeah, and maybe she just doesn't want there to be a ton of comments about him from people
saying, like, who's? That, yeah, exactly. I don't know. Exactly. So then in February, she's doing an interview with Metro US and she's asked if she believes in love at first sight. And she says yes, I do. I was definitely not planning on falling in love, but I think that's the thing about it. You can't anticipate or plan it. And then in 2015, Carly takes a break from modeling and she decides to go back to college
enrolling in NYU. But The funny thing is, I found an article from back then which is from NYU local, which I think it's like a student writing this and they're questioning if she actually attends the school because one really never seen on campus, she apparently didn't have an NYU e-mail or like an account set up and. What?
She at one point, the person's really over analyzing it like they're going through her Instagram and she's they're like, OK, so she's at Coachella while finals are going on or something like that. And then she's going to all these different events and stuff. And then like at one point Carly posts a photo where she captions it back to school and it looks like she's studying. But actually, the photo was taken five years prior for a Teen Vogue. What?
Are you kidding? Me. No. It's so funny. It's like, does she actually go here? And then later in the article there's a update saying that there was an anonymous tip that she showed up to class for the first time 3 weeks into the semester and she just didn't even say anything. What So? That's crazy. Yeah, for the first time. Yeah, the class had already been going on for three weeks. Wow. I don't know.
I mean, maybe she had special accommodations as a model, but I feel like back then, like, people didn't really do online schooling as much. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think she was she she was enrolled, technically, but I don't know if she was really going to classes. That's hilarious. That somebody noticed that. OK, she's at Kotella, but there's, you know, class going on.
What the heck? Yeah, but apparently she then would go on to study computer science, which led her to launching her own business called Code With Classy, which is dedicated to leading coding boot camps aimed at helping young girls learn how to code. And she said that like she was inspired because she's always been a big math and science
nerd. And that she was partly inspired because of her friend, Instagram founder Kevin Systrom, who I think she knows through Josh. But I also came across a blind item that apparently Josh had told Carly that she would need to stop modelling for Victoria's Secret in order for them to keep going with their relationship. So I can't help but wonder is, you know, going back to college and starting her own business, especially a STEM business, a little bit motivated by seeking
the approval of his family. Maybe, but I will say it is a smart move to make because most people cannot get the same jobs that they do for that long. That's true. You do age out of it, unfortunately. I wish that wasn't the case, I really do. But yeah, they have like teenagers on those runways, early 20s, maybe mid 20s, but then it kind of ends. It's not a dependable career. That is really true. I always thought that was funny that she got into.
That was like, is that why he's like a backup career? I don't know. I really do wonder how well she can code I'm. Curious. I wonder. Because it seems so interesting. It seems like she's more the face of it from a business standpoint. But like, I don't really. I don't know if she's really like a programmer. I'm not sure. So then, in 2016, April Carly took Josh to the Time 100 Gala, and in June she professed her love for Josh on Instagram for their four year anniversary.
But soon after that, they were photographed by paparazzi in New York and what appeared to be an animated argument while walking through the West Village. They both appeared visibly emotional with angry body language, their arms flailing like up and down in the air. You know the gestures that one makes when they're angry. Yes, you can really tell that
they're in some type of fight. Not sure what it's about, but they must have made-up because then in July they both attend Taylor's famous 4th of July party that year in Rhode Island. Josh is photographed in several of the group photos and a lot of the Polaroids with Carly, so he's definitely in that squad at that point. So again, I find it hard to believe that any relationship was going on.
But but also this year Josh had posted much less frequently Carl photos of Carly on his Instagram. He actually didn't post her for an entire year. But of course we can liken that to the fact that Josh is now thrust further into the spotlight than he had ever been before. He was pretty much a private person, but based off his affiliation with his brother Jared, who is now actively campaigning for his brother or his father-in-law, Donald Trump, people are looking into like
who? Who is Jared Kushner? And like what? Where does he come from? And oh, he has a brother and oh, his brother's dating Karlie Kloss. Yeah, and that would make sense why he would pose to. Us. Yeah. And I feel like he was being protective of her. But it's interesting because because of this connection, like this is when people also start speculating and wondering if Taylor Swift might have been a
secret Trump supporter. Because there's all these articles back then that are like, she's connected to the Kushner family, but Carly and Josh are like, they make it pretty obvious that they're not Trump supporters. So it's so weird that like that was held against Taylor Swift I. Mean he can't help what his brother's doing, and yeah, she can't help what her boyfriend's brother's doing. I don't know, it just seems a bit dramatic to me.
Yeah, and like they but, like, they make it pretty obvious. But I feel like people like, let it just, like go over their heads. Like, Josh told Esquire magazine that he loves his brother and didn't want to say anything to embarrass him, yet wanted it on the record that he's a lifelong Democrat and would not be voting for Trump. And then in November, Carly posted a photo of her voting and
she actually did the hashtag. I'm with her like for Hillary Clinton. So it's like, they make it pretty obvious, but people still buy association, are suspicious of them. And then in January, Josh attended the inauguration without Carly, though. And then the very next day he attended the Women's March in DC
the day after the inauguration. And that got a lot of headlines because it's like, oh, like he's going to this like anti Trump protest when his brother was just sworn in as the advisor for Trump. But then a day later, he posted a photo of himself inside the White House with Jared posing in front of JF KS official portrait, and it seems like he's trying to send a message that he still supports his brother despite disagreeing with him politically. But Carly is like. Interesting.
He's like totally on two sides. Yeah, he really is. He's quiet about it though. It's like he is like, I feel like he wanted to be seen at the Women's March, but he doesn't. He must like really still, like, be big on family because he doesn't want to be going against his brother or like he doesn't want that to be. Such drama. I know, Awkward. So then he's profiled in Forbes and they write. When he does leave the city, it's upstate to Stone cabin with a big fireplace and plenty of
privacy. Sometimes Karlie Kloss joins him. Other times it's just him. Just him. Yeah. Wow. What is he doing? Maybe he likes his solitude, I don't know. He's a cabin man. Yeah, I get it. Sometimes I want to do that too. I don't know where I would go. Like, he wants to be, like out of the drama. Carly has done interviewed by In Style, and she's asked how she has time for romance amid her busy schedule. And she says you make it work. We've been together almost five years. Time flies.
It's crazy. He's a super solid dude. I guess if you really were deep in the conspiracy theories, you'd be like, that's a pretty generic answer, like. Wait, that's a pretty what? Generic answer, but what else is she going to say? Yeah, it's tough sometimes. I don't know what to say when people are like how's Charlie or like. You know, tell me about your boyfriend. Like, I don't know what to like. He's a great guy. Like, I say something like that sometimes. I don't know.
Yeah, no, it's like, what is she supposed to decide? But for their five year anniversary, Carly posts a photo of them together and she captions it My Atoms. Love your atoms. It's chemistry. Happy birthday to my best friend and partner in crime. The past five years of our adventures together have been some of the best memories of my life.
I love you at Joshua Kushner. And then there are rumors that they have broken up because he was absent at her 25th birthday party in LA. However, it's then reported that they were seen together on a trip in upstate New York, so it seems like all is good. Good, Good, Good. Then it's 2018 again. They're in the headlines because they attended the March for Our Lives protests rallying for gun reform. So contrary to Jared and Ivanka and the administration, they're getting headlines as, oh,
trouble in the family dynamics. Yeah, so again, but like, they're making their, like, separation from them politically. Like, pretty clear. Carly gets an interview with Daughter magazine. She asked why she keeps her relationship so private, and she says it's not like I ever wanted to be so secretive about my private life. Carolina Herrera always says a woman who's an open book is boring.
There's no mystery anymore. I know in my life what really matters to me. I'm not trying to hide that from the world. I just really like having a more private, private life. I've got nothing to hide, though. Hmm. So she's trying to be mysterious. I guess so. I always want to be a little bit more mysterious myself. Then in July.
People magazine is the first to report that the couple is engaged, a source says he proposed a few weeks ago during a romantic weekend together in upstate New York. They're both overjoyed and happily celebrating. Their hearts are full and they're excited to build their future together, and she confirms the news on Instagram by saying I love you more than I have words to express. Josh, you're my best friend and my soul mate. I can't wait for forever together.
Yes, a million times over and. What do the gailers say about this? You know what, I'm not sure this should have been like a big breaking point for them, but like, I don't think that anyone would fake a relationship that much that they get engaged like after 5-6 years together, that's a lot. Maybe they think that, like, they really fell in love, though I'm not sure.
But this is also when folks online once again, even though they've been together for years, people just start realizing like what Karlie Kloss is engaged to a Kushner, which is so annoying because it's like, where have you been? And so then they especially get suspicious of her because Ivanka actually posts about it and she calls Carly her sister. And so then that's not really good for Carly socially, I think. Then people start being suspicious of her. But Carly, it's kind of awkward.
She never acknowledges Ivanka online. And I feel like Ivanka is always trying to post stuff or not so much anymore. But like, she would post stuff like supporting her and she just like wouldn't acknowledge it. Oh my gosh. But you makes you wonder. Like behind closed doors maybe they are pretty close. Maybe. That's awkward, though.
So awkward and I feel like on Ivanka's part she's trying to be like see like look I'm I'm still friends with like I still have some A list celebrity friends and. Yeah. But. Yeah, so. Awkward and Carly addressed the backlash with Vogue magazine saying at the end of the day, I've had to make decisions based on my own moral compass. Forget what the public says. Forget social media. I've chosen to be with the man I love.
Despite the complications, it's frustrating, to be honest, that the spotlight is always shifted away from my career toward my relationship. I don't think that the same happens in conversations with men. Maybe. Maybe I don't know about that necessarily. Like, I feel like it's not really about that, like. It's that, Yeah, it's. Like, just about his brother and. Yeah, I mean, I usually totally empathize with those kind of
situations arguments. But I mean, we're just, we're talking about this specific situation, and I feel like she's trying to distract by saying it's like sexist, but like, no, we're just talking about this. Yeah, exactly. Like, I don't really know who else is in this exact situation. Yeah, it's pretty unique. Partly, I don't know. But she said Josh and I wonder, oh, sorry. Oh, sorry, Yeah. I just, I don't know.
I don't know what it's like to be one of those people, those billionaires, you know friends of heads of companies and I just wonder how much it actually matters to them. Again, I it's just ATV show. I don't know if it's real, but on like succession, they kind of act like it doesn't matter to them like it political divides basically that it's just it's all about money, the bottom line. And they'll they will hang out with people on like the other side and they don't really care. It doesn't.
So I'm just curious. I don't think it does matter to them that much because doesn't really affect them that much. Like they're always going to be at the top regardless and they have so much money like. That's true, yeah. Issues really are not about them, but I think, I think for them it more effects them if they care what other people think about them. And I think Carly does.
Yeah, I don't know about Josh. I think he lays a little bit more low, but I think it is important to Carly that people know that she's not a Trump supporter and she said. Josh and I share a lot of the same liberal values that guide our lives and the things that we stand for. We've grown. We've really grown together, personally and professionally. Josh knows that. I'm just a nerdy, curious human being. I think that's why he loves me. We've had each other's back.
She's such a nerd. Yeah, such a nerd. I'm always a little skeptical when people call themselves that. So then in October, Carly and Josh wed in a small Jewish ceremony in upstate New York with only 80 guests in attendance. And she later told Andy Cohen that she converted to Judaism before marrying Josh. And she would say in an interview, changing part of who you are for someone else can be
seen as weak. But you know what actually, If you've been through what I've experienced, it requires you to be anything but weak. It requires you to be stronger and self loving and resilient. I really did not take this lightly. It wasn't enough to just love Josh and make this decision for him. This is my life and I am an independent, strong woman.
It was after many years of studying and talking with my family and friends and soul searching that I made the decision to fully embrace Judaism in my life and start planning for a future with the man I chose to marry. Yeah. I mean, people do it, yeah. I mean it is. She likes it then. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I think. It for me. It would always be a little awkward with the family though, to be like you really had a problem with me, but it seems like they eventually did come
around to her. I wonder what her family thinks. I'm not sure. I mean, they're a lot more average than his family in terms of wealth. So then in December, Carly and Josh went to South Africa for their honeymoon. And then in 2019, Carly. She is the host for Project Runway at this point and she's asked about married life while doing press for the show. And she says I love being married. Honestly, I just feel really happy. It's so nice to just have a home base.
I can't explain. Nothing has really changed, but in all the best ways it feels different. I love it. And then, she added. I'm sure everyone is juggling 10 things that you wouldn't even realize for me. Like every woman, I'm just figuring out how to continue to grow my career and balance my personal and professional life. I feel really grateful that I have a partner, my husband, who's an incredible support to me and wants to help me accomplish my dreams no matter what they are. I wish.
I do wish Josh was interviewed a little bit more so I could hear him talk, but we don't really get that perspective unfortunately. Who is this guy? He is pretty good looking. He is pretty definitely a lot better looking than his brother Let. Me Look up a picture of him. Oh, he is cute. I would totally have a crush on. Him, isn't he? He he does look like a character, like he would be in that realm. He's really cute. I get it. I get it. He's cute. He's got money.
He's. Smart. Yeah. All right, this is all making sense to me now. I mean, I I knew what he looked like, kind of. But, like, it's been a really long time. Like, I didn't really remember. He's very cute. He could be on ACW show. Yeah, totally. He could have been an actor. He could have kind of looks like Adam Brody. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing actually. Really. Yeah. OK, he's really cute. He's like my new celebrity crush and like, honestly? Like, it's kind of sexy.
Like he like sticks up to his parents, probably. Or like obeys them for love Seems like he has. Really cute guys. She likes him. Come on. Totally. Oh, this picture of him at the Eiffel Tower. I know. Really cute. Yeah, he has guys, because I know this is audio. Brown hair, brown eyes, very Seth Cohen type of look. Big Eyes Carly has a very Scandinavian blonde look, in case you don't know what she looks like. He kind of looks like the Tumblr creator. Am I wrong? I don't know.
I don't remember what he looks like. My own people were let. Me. Look him up. Tumblr. Wait. Just kidding. I'm so wrong. Oh. David Carp. I'm so wrong. Never mind, I feel like I. Wonder if all those guys ever hung out from each social media? I know. I wonder. He's a little he's actually nerdy looking. No. Yeah, I feel like I remembered him differently. Why do I feel like hang on, yeah. The Twitter one, all right. I was going to say.
I was going to say, why do I feel like he looks like the guy from Owl City? The Tumblr. The David Carr? Yeah, David Carr. No, he does look like him. See, I don't know if I would want to be dating someone who's like the head of a company, though. I don't know. I guess I'd have to see what it's like. I don't know what it's like, but if he's like, wicked stressed out all the time, it might be kind of a bummer. Yeah, talking about the. Time to watch a clip. And not yet. Almost.
OK, OK. So then in February of 2019, it's reported that the couple put their 6.9, $1,000,000 New York City apartment on the market and are currently looking for a new home. And then in May they attended and walked the red carpet together for the Camp Met Gala. And I don't know if you remember this, but this is the year when Carly had the infamous post where she's like looking in a handheld mirror and the caption says looking camp straight in the eye. And then her outfit is so
underwhelming. Really. Yeah, look up Karlie Kloss Camp dress. OK. Oh yeah, I see it. I mean, kind of like the sleeves, but it's not. Everybody else is way more over the top. Yeah, but it's just so funny that like that was her caption. Like teasing what her outfit's going to be. And. But it's basically a strapless gold dress with like like poopy black sleeves. Yeah. I feel like that moment was kind
of camp in a way. So then in June, the couple had a second wedding in Wyoming and some famous guests included Katy Perry or in Orlando Bloom and Mila Kunis is mentioned. But I'm wondering, like, did her husband come with her? Not sure. Why a second wedding? I think, I think first one was so small and it was more religious and so their second one seemed to be a lot more fun. They apparently had paintball and horseback riding in a very rowdy after party and it was like western themed.
So I think it was more of a party I. See. And then we're in 2020, so the first clip I have is from January, and this is kind of a famous moment with Carly. It's when she's hosting Fashion Runway and one of the contestants makes a snide remark about her being married to Joshua Kushner. Oh my. OK, let me watch. Tyler I cannot see Carly wearing it anywhere. Honestly. Loud even to dinner with the Kushner's. No, no, no. That's your husband. I was going to Paris.
That was your challenge. Here I know, I know. Keep it, keep it to the. Challenge I could see you. Wearing it at some point, you may not. Know, but I know I know that this. Is not what I asked for. The fabrics are poor choices. I think they look cheap, the pockets are kind of ill placed and if this is your aesthetic then not stop. But this was about my aesthetic and the influence of my stylist. You really missed the mark here on all accounts, Not even.
Dinner with the Kushner. 'S and then she. Roasts his creation. Yeah, fabrics look cheap. So awkward. Because, like, you can tell he like, you know, like when you want to make a like, snide comment and then you regret it. And he's like pretending like he didn't mean anything by it. He's like, that's your husband, right? Yeah, so awkward. Crazy but. Yeah, I mean, like, again, people are suspicious of her because of the Kushner thing and everything, but Carly reacts to this.
She goes on Andy Cohen. And so that's the second clip at a 51. OK. What was your reaction to that? Well, listen, I was honored to be. One of the first memes of the decade, Yes, but. Honestly. The real tragedy? Of this whole thing is that no one is talking about how terrible that dress was, OK? That's why we went home. Right. OK. And no. I would not wear that dinner to that dress to any dinner. OK? To any dinner. Dinner. You know I have to.
Say there is. I think one of the things that came out of it is there is so much speculation about your home life and your family. Can I ask you about it a little bit? Ask me, Andrea. I'm an open book, OK? For my Saint Louis fellow, exactly, we're. Saint. Louisans. Are you on the same page politically with the family, Andy? Yes, I'm sure. I'm not the only person in this country who does not necessarily agree with their family on politics. Uh huh.
That's a good answer. Yeah, I I. Voted as a Democrat in 2016 and I plan to do the same in 2020. Wow, very good that. Yeah. You. You're you're very politically active, which is why it made me. I mean, I know you're involved in different issues. You know, woman's reproductive health. And, you know, I'm very involved with Planned Parenthood, as are you. Next time we're both home in Saint Louis, we should, you should come volunteer with me. I would love to.
I would absolutely love to. The, you know, the what I gather from it, from things that I've heard, you felt this is quite a love story, actually. You you fell in love in 2012, long before the election. And you you really, you fell in love with a private person and you've been through a lot in your relationship. You you talked about it a little bit. Last time you were here, you converted to Judaism. I mean, what can you tell us about all that you've been through?
I met my man in 2012. Yeah, I was 19 years old. Wow. It was 2012. It was a different world. Yeah. And my my man and I have been through a lot together. And you know, I'm so proud that he's my partner. It's not been easy, but it's worth it, you know? And and I would, I would make that same decision a million times. Again, Very cool. I love it. And thank. You for? Humoring me. And yeah, that's. A clip, that's. Cute how? She says my man. Yeah, that makes me uncomfortable.
I know it. Was like an intense time. But I feel like they should not be asking her that. I don't know. I don't think she should feel like she has to say who she voted for. It's just uncomfortable to me. Well, I feel like killing her. I feel like if she gets a lot of hate for it, it's like she might as well. She probably wants to specify, I think, I guess so, I guess. I don't know. And she probably. Talks with Andy beforehand. Yeah, it felt like they were making her.
Say I don't know. I that was I thought that was weird like making her say what are your opinions like she didn't have to say that I guess it was her choice. But I mean, I think it was a good like I do think it.
Was a really good answer. Her saying like, I'm not the only person who disagrees with your family and that's really relatable for people and it is kind of unfair that Carly's getting all this hate for it. It is just because of the guy, like and it's also several degrees away like it's not even like it's her brother, sister. It's like her in law. Yeah, I know which it's. Her in laws. Aren't her in? Law isn't even Donald Trump. Yeah, no, it's it's not that. It's not that connected.
Yeah, but. I think she probably wanted to specify. Yeah, clearly with all of. This said also. Then she also gets harassment and stuff about, like the allegations about her being in a former relationship with Taylor Swift. Like, yeah, it's just so weird. And I wonder what his family thinks of that, if they're even, like, aware of that, too. Wow. I'm surprised she's. Never just gotten on a live stream and like lost her shit and yelled at people and said shut the fuck up.
Yeah, I mean, I do think it's really. I I do think though that like, she does have real like issues with Ivanka and Jared because eventually, like it gets a little bit more contentious after the January 6th insurrection, Carly tweeted. Accepting the results of a legitimate democratic election is patriotic. Refusing to do so and inciting violence is anti American.
And then someone responded and wrote tell your sister-in-law and brother-in-law, which like obviously she's already doing that if she's posting something publicly, like she knows Ivanka is going to see it. To which Carly responded. I've tried. Period. So I'm sure behind closed doors that has was super awkward and tough for her. But back to a few months earlier Carly actually became one of the most high profile investors to purchase a share in West Magazine.
So she's getting more and more like infiltrated in the investor scene. Then in March, it's reported that they went house hunting for a home in upstate New York. In either what, Woodstock or Bedford. I'm not sure if they ever actually settled on somewhere later on. I love Woodstock. Yeah, they seem. To love. Upstate New York, but later on they too purchased a house in
Miami for $23.5 million. They purchased a mansion and then they also purchased a $42.5 million penthouse apartment in Manhattan, which is 7200 square feet and includes 5 bedrooms and 7 1/2 bathrooms and a major outdoor terrace that is around 5100 square feet. So they're living in. Luxury. These two. This is insane. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then also like. What the heck? Back to the. Politics of it all, Carly. Actually actively campaigned for the Biden Harrison administration.
I imagine that was probably a little awkward too, but I almost feel like I almost get the sense maybe I shouldn't say this. Like, Ivanka kind of didn't even want her dad to win the presidency because it was like, just too much drama. Maybe. But yeah, I mean it's. Pretty strong of Carly. To do that. To stand up for her beliefs regardless. But I mean it's. Totally her right to everybody can. Yeah, it's good.
And then in March, Carly. And Josh welcomed their first child together, a baby boy named Levi. And then, in 2022, in May, Josh Joshua Kushner officially became a billionaire at age 36. Oh my goodness, I know then in 20. 23 Carly and. Josh attended to Met Gala together where Carly debuted a very visible baby bump revealing that they are pregnant with their second child and then they welcome their second son, Elijah Jude.
And then most recently Carly purchased ID magazine from Vice Media Group and actually became the CEO of magazine. So she didn't really climb the ranks. And yeah, they do seem. Like they're both. Super driven. What is their life like? Oh my gosh. And then actually this is not. Important, But in December, I liked a tweet about Taylor Swift being named Person of the Year, which makes me wonder if Carly and Taylor maybe patched things up.
Wow. But that is Carly and Josh I. Feel like I still don't really know them, but it is interesting to get just a little glimpse into the lives of the Super rich and curious. And you know, even they have some conflict similar to the average American family and they do. I can relate for sure, yeah.
I cannot help but feel. A little bit bad for Carly that she is always like bearing the brunt of yeah, answer to or answer for her in laws when like she's made it very clear that she doesn't agree with them, which I'm sure is very awkward for her. Yeah, I think so. I know I. Don't I? Don't I? That's why I'm saying like, I feel like I would be really annoyed if I was her. Yeah, I can't even imagine. And. Yeah, and then the whole Gaylor thing, too. Like people, people. We don't.
I mean, I don't know what the truth is. We don't know her. We don't know her life. But just all these people talking about her and like, putting words in her mouth. It must be just so frustrating. I mean, I guess there. Is an argument like, I have definitely seen people wonder, like can anyone who's a billionaire be the good person? But I maybe. I mean, I just now a billionaire. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I don't.
I think there are people that donate a lot of their money to charity and try to use it for good. So I don't think that it's impossible. Yeah, that is interesting. Definitely. Different from our other episodes. So thanks, Mel. Yeah, next. Episode. Wait, wait, wait. Yeah, What are the odds they stay together?
You know what? I actually think it's probably 50. 50 As much as I hope that, you know, they've made it through, I feel like they got together when she was so young and they're just, that is really young. There's like there's a little bit too much money in there and I don't know. I know. You know, but then again, they. Do his. Family. And he seems to be pretty religious traditional, so maybe he would be less likely. To. Get divorced.
But do you think he's really? I mean, there's no way to know but like. How religious? I don't know. He be if he was actively dating someone who wasn't the same religious as him, like, and I almost have felt like the younger generation probably didn't really care that much. I don't know. I'm not the one that researched him. I don't. Know. Yeah. But I yeah, I hope they. I hope they stay together and they are really cute. Yeah, it does seem like. Appearances are very important
to them. I hope they do stay together. But you never know what these people, these rich people, it does seem kind of 5050. But I I hope the best for them. I'm, you know, putting that out into universe. Cool. Well, yeah. What are we doing next week? Do you want to tease it to our audience? Yeah, next week. It's kind. Of a sad episode and it's about two Co stars who fell in love on the TV show from the 20 tens. All right. All right. I think I know. I think you do know.
I have a. Guest but but you'll be. Teasing. It Thank you so much for listening. Yes, thank you. And we'll get back together next week. All right. Bye. Is your heart filled with pain? Shall I come back again? Tell me. Dear. How are you Lord?