Are you alone? Come tonight. Do you miss me tonight? Are you sorry we rested apart? Does your man all right? Hello everybody. Welcome to significant lovers. Welcome back. This is a true love podcast. Yes, the opposite of true crime. We are investigating the love lives and dating history of people in history and pop culture. And we are two cousins. My name is Mel and I'm Kel.
Yeah, Kel is leading today's episode and she's going to teach us all about what couple are we talking today, Kel? We are talking about the one and only Lena Dunham and Jack Antonoff and Mel. I don't want to freak you out, but I think I may be the voice of my generation, or at least a voice of a generation. Yes, Lena Dunham. She's so controversial. Some people hate her. I know, so don't hate us. Don't hate us.
Honestly, what? We are sympathetic to Lena Dunham. I love Lena Dunham, and if anyone doesn't know who she or Jack are, Lena Dunham is a writer, director, and sometimes actor. She created the HBO show Girls, which was on In The 20 Tens. Such a great show. It's my favorite show of all time. It's always some other things like the show camping and she had a movie called Sharp Stick like last year. I never saw it, but I do want to see it. And then Jack Antonoff, he was
in the band fun. You guys probably know that band. We are young some nights, you know. And then he was in and still is in the band, I guess, but it's kind of just him, bleachers. And he's also a famous music producer working with people like Taylor Swift. Gotta mention her every episode. Lana Del Rey, Lord, Lord, we're going to talk about her later. Saint Vincent Claro, lots of people. So they're both, I would say, very talented people. I'm so excited to learn about this couple.
I had a lot of fun researching this. I felt like I was on I love the 20 Tens or something. Do you remember the show? I love the 80s or I love the 90s. Yeah, just also because we're in the middle of Ariana Grande and Pete Davidson, I just feel like, so immersed in this specific time. Like 2014, 2015. I don't know.
I was a huge, huge, huge fan of girls and I made so many people watch it. Literally, because I had it on DVD, I would just put it on and would always tell people you can watch season one in five hours, just do it. You can watch it in five hours, which is true. So I'm excited to talk about them. But yeah, they are, they are. She is quite controversial. People love to hate Lena Dunham. They do, and I can understand. But I almost feel like, never mind.
I was going to say that. I just feel like. Say, I don't know how I feel like the reason why people don't like her is partially because of like headlines of things that people haven't really looked that too far into. And she says a lot of things that are taken out of context or like are obviously a joke. But then people take it very seriously and a lot of it like to is her artistic style with
her show how she's like. I think I might be the voice of my generation, or a voice of a generation. Her character on Girls is supposed to be annoying and real, but people people are a little bit too critical of her because of her characters, I think. So narcissism, and I think that she does put a lot of herself into girls, but she isn't Hannah Horvath. Literally. I mean, yeah, And and even if that is her, it comes from a place of self-awareness and that
everybody. Has really annoying qualities about them. Lena is fascinating because on the one hand she seems so self aware and then other times not at all. And I I I feel like Lena Dunham has also come to represent like white feminism in general, and so that's obviously why people are annoyed by her.
But I hate to say this, but I think also part of the reason why people don't like her is. Kind of what I was talking about with Lizzo a couple episodes back is that because she defies beauty standards to people are a lot more willing to get annoyed by her for the things that she says. Taylor Swift is like a white feminist, but because she's beautiful and everything and they're good friends, people aren't going to get as annoyed by her.
So, and to anyone who doesn't know, I mean, I think what you mean by white feminist is not just someone who's literally white and a feminist, but like somebody that their feminism only really applies to white women, right? Yes, yeah. Yeah, I know. I I do think that I don't understand why Lena became like the face of that. I agree that her show probably should have had more people of color, but I don't know why she was targeted as like, the only showrunner that did that.
Because there's still TV shows today that are pretty much all white people. And definitely in 2012, there were so many shows that were the main characters were white people. So I just don't really get why she was the scapegoat for like all racism in TV, you know? And like that one guy was a young woman and a little overweight. And I think a lot of people were jealous of her success because she was literally 24 when she
wrote and directed that show. And I I do think Lena, even though I do really like her, I do think that she tries to please people. And that's where she kind of puts her foot in her mouth sometimes. Like she she's trying so hard to please people and be like really progressive and woke. And then she seems like a hypocrite when she's not, You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. And that's why I feel like she
gets a lot of hate. But again, like what you were saying, with her being so young and a showrunner, it's just a shame because there's so few women directors, women producers in Hollywood that it makes me sad when the. Criticism and expectations on them is so much more significant because they're held to a different standard. We can't just celebrate that this young woman is in charge of her show. Like, we're going to give her criticism that, like you said, so many other people are guilty
of, too. But like, all of it is coming down a lot harder on her. Yeah. And I mean, she was approached to make a show that was based on her short films she had made, which were like based on her own life. So it was very like autobiographical. So that's what she was. That's how she got the job to make a show, like about her experiences. So that's how the show turned out. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. She's writing from her own experience, which is obviously
limited to that. To put simply, Lena Dunham is very controversial, but she did have a romance with Jack Antonoff that I think is nice for a time, but very, very interesting and the ending is a bit mysterious so. I love the song You Are In Love by Taylor Swift and she said she wrote that inspired by Lena Dunham and Jack Antonoff's relationship. I know. I saw that. We should all just go listen to that after. OK, Well, should I get into
this? Yeah. OK. 3 words I would use to describe Jack and Lena are neurotic, caring, sweet and sad. It was making me a bit sad. I think it's a fun episode, but it it's a bit sad too. OK, so backstories, Who are they? Jack Antonoff. I'm going to start with him because he's older. He was born March 31st, 1984 to a Jewish family in Bergenfield, NJ, just north of New York City. He grew up in New Milford and Woodcliff Lake, NJ, so I guess they moved around a couple times.
He is very proud of New Jersey. Oh yeah, take a drink. I still need to make that graphic thing. He didn't move around as much as some other people, though. He is very proud of New Jersey. He's written a lot about it and his music, and Bruce Springsteen was always a huge inspiration of his. But in high school, he actually commuted to school in Manhattan. Jack was the middle kid, He had
two sisters. His older sister Rachel Antonoff is now a fashion designer, and her clothes are actually really cool. I went on her website and wanted to buy them, but they're like $300.00. Oh, wow. They're talented family. Yeah, very talented family. And really tragically, his younger sister Sarah actually died of brain cancer when she was 13 years old. That's awful. I didn't know that. I didn't either, actually. And it was when Jack was a senior in high school. And. My gosh, yeah.
I think that this is the defining moment in Jack's life that he always goes back to. And yeah, he said that everything in his career has been the reaction to that. Losing her All the anything in his lyrics about sadness, I think is about losing Sarah and I feel so bad for their family. That's terrible. So young. So young. I I mean, I just can't imagine being in high school. And that happens. I know it's not supposed to. No.
No it's not. I saw a video of he was giving a tour of him and Lena's apartment and he had a big picture of her, like right in the center of the room above the mantle. I guess so. Yeah, they're sweet. But around I I don't know if it was right after this or around the same time. Jack was in a lot of bands in high school. He was super into music. He plays a lot of instruments, guitar, drums, piano, bass, mandolin. He's definitely very smart when
it comes to music. I watched this video of him producing song one of Lana's songs and I didn't understand anything he was saying. So he's very knowledgeable about that. But he was first in the band outline when he was in high school and they actually did all right. They toured, they played in Florida and Texas and they drove around in Jack's parents minivan. And from 2001 to 2002, he actually dated Scarlett Johansson. I didn't know that. Yes, they went to the same high school. What?
They were high school sweetheart. I guess so. Oh my. God, isn't that crazy? Wow. We have to cover them, you know. I don't know how much information there is about them, but. Probably not. That's crazy. What are the odds that they would both become famous? I know. Well, I think they went to like a performing arts school. Yeah, you know. So pretty high, but still wow, this will come up later.
But you know, Lena gets a lot of criticism for her looks and being overweight when she's on Girls, and I just think it's crazy that he's, His ex is Scarlett Johansson. Yeah. One of the most conventionally attractive. Yeah. Women in the whole world. Yes. Regarded as the most one of the most traditionally beautiful. Yeah, crazy. And then in 2002, him and his friends formed a new band called Steel Train.
And OK, this is random, but this is the band that Evan Winiker was in, which is the guy that Lana was rumoured to be engaged to. But I don't know if that's even true anymore, or what the deal is with that, or if she even really knows him. But well, she definitely knows him. But I think he's still Jack and Evan are still friends to this day, so that's nice. Steel Train was popular in the jam band circuit. They had a record deal, but I guess things fizzled out.
And then in 2008, Nate Roos and Andrew Dost, who were formerly in another band. They asked Jack Antonoff to join them in the band Fun and they already all knew each other from touring and just seeing each other in other bands. Tonight we are young, fun with a period. No explanation, Mark, Right. No, it's a period. So weird. I don't know if this makes me old fashioned or something, but I don't really like it when bands have punctuation symbols or yeah, punctuation or
lowercase. I don't know. You know what? I feel you like pink. How pink is like pink with the exclamation mark instead of an eye. Like just Nah. Yeah, it makes it weird in print. Yeah, it doesn't always work. I know. Anyway, Fun was very successful, but they only had two albums, Aim and Ignite and then some nights in 2012 which had a lot of hits. Like we said, we are young, some nights carry on. Yeah, they were huge and they could have been like on top of the world, but I don't really
know what happened to them. They went on a hiatus and never came back. People go on a reunion tour, maybe. Jack is too big. Yeah, Jack is. He really doesn't need fun anymore. No, he wasn't even that famous in fun. Yeah 'cause Nate was the lead singer. Yeah, he was the guy from Fun. Yeah. And actually, when him and Lena first start dating, that's what the articles are like. They're like Lena Dunham dating the guy from fun.
Yeah. Interestingly, Nate Ruse went on to date Jack's sister Rachel, older sister Rachel for several years, but they broke up, so I don't know if that could have influenced the band to. Oh, maybe. Well, that's a dynamic that we haven't really explored before when people date their friend's sibling. True, I know that. Can make things messy.
I mean, people don't really know what happened with them, but everyone speculates that there was a little bad blood between Nate and Jack, so I don't know what happened and. Interesting. This is random too, but just shows that everything is connected. Now Nate is married to Charlotte Ronson, Samantha Ronson's sister. Who we covered Yes. In the Lindsay Lohan and Samantha Ronson episode. And Charlotte Ronson is also a fashion designer. So oh. My God, I guess that guy just
likes fashion designers. Really specific. Yeah, wait, that is weird. It happened twice, yeah. So yeah, fun ended. Some people speculate that Jack was never all in for fun, that he was initially 60% steel train, 40% fun, then it became 60% fun, 40% bleachers, and Nate wanted him to be 100. But that's just fan speculation. He seems like a workaholic. Oh yeah, he he definitely does. I can't even believe how much stuff he does. Yeah, he has his hands in everything.
Yeah, 'cause he he's on the one hand working on his own music. Then he's also like, Oh yeah, I'm working on the Taylor album, working on the Claro album. They're working with everybody. I know everybody. It's getting crazy. Yeah. So then he's been doing bleachers as well, which I really like. And he's said that it's very inspired by suburban youth and John Hughes movies. Oh, it's been said that Jack is
a germaphobe. And despite living in New York City for a very long time, he hasn't rode the subway since 2001 because of the germs. So he drives everywhere in New York, and he covers his hand with his sleeves to open doors. So he's he's like a real hardcore germaphobe. Yeah, it almost sounds like to the point where it could be annoying. Yeah, he seems very polite, but also I would think someone being, I don't know why. Imagine someone that's a germaphobe is kind of uptight,
but he also. He also is apparently a reckless driver and had horrible grades in high school. It's kind of hard to read. He lived at home until he was 28 due to touring with bands, so he was never really home anyway. And he seems simultaneously very optimistic, but also kind of down about the world to saying things like fuck that, you know, hate that about the world, you know? I feel like he always says stuff like that, but he's very loyal,
caring. He seems like a very patient person, and Lorde has described him as one of the weirdest people she's ever met. And that he dresses like a scumbag. OK, I copied you with the quotes from other people. All right? Now, Lena Dunham. Oh my goodness was born May 13th, 1986. She was born in New York City, so not not that far from Jack Ingnoff. Her father, Carol Dunham is a painter and her mother, Laurie Simmons is a photographer. So this was a very, very
artistic household. She has younger sibling Cyrus. Her father is Protestant, mother, Jewish, and she grew up feeling culturally Jewish and later in life connected more to Judaism. So her and Jack have that in common. Lena has said that she was bullied as a kid, things like kids pushing her down and would count how long it took for her to stand up. She said that she felt very much like a loser.
And in 7th grade she transferred schools to, I think she went to a kind of a hippie, I don't know, experimental type of school before this. And then she transferred to Saint Anne's School in Brooklyn, and that's where she met Jemima Kirk, who plays Jessa on girls, and that's where they became friends. I think she's so cool.
Lena was diagnosed with OCD as a child and continued to take a low dose of Klonopin until 2018. And she has also, her whole life suffered from endometriosis, which will be a big part of this story. So I think a lot of the stuff in Girls about Hannah having OCD, with the repetition and everything, I think that's from Lena's real life.
If you guys saw that. She briefly attended the New School University in New York, and then she transferred to Oberlin College in Ohio, which is where the girls went on the show Girls and she studied creative writing in college. She produced several short films which were on YouTube, and I don't know if they're still there, but actually watched one of them back in the day and I liked it. She launched a web series in 2007 called Tight Shots.
On the website nerve.com and then after graduating she returned to her parents house in New York and she continued to try to make films while she was babysitting and she wrote for the Onion in the AV Club. That would be interesting to find her articles from that. Oh, I know. I wonder if they're still out there.
She then wrote, directed and starred in a film called Creative Nonfiction in 2009, and that was actually shown at South by Southwest. And then her and a friend created a web series called Delusional Downtown Divas, also in 2009. Then she wrote, directed and starred in another DIY film, Tiny Furniture, which stars Jemima Kirk, AKA Jessa from Girls.
This was also at South by Southwest, and this is kind of the film that made her successful because then it was picked up by IFC Films and it received a wider theatrical release, probably like in New York. And Judd Apatow, the director and producer, saw the film and approached Lena about developing ATV show for cable channel HBO. So that's how it happened. That's so impressive. You know what I was thinking of as you're talking about Lena
Dunham? I thought a lot of the people who I know who are very critical of Lena Dunham. Especially because I went to a school, a school called Emerson College, which is really liberal. It's performing arts school people. They're very, yeah, film school people there are very outspoken, but a lot of the people who hate Lena Dunham are people who ironically are very similar to her.
I almost feel like it comes from a sense of self hatred because people, it's like they're critical of her because. They're annoyed by the parts about themselves that remind them of Lena Dunham or something like, I don't know, no, I can totally. See that different from her? And I think sometimes we get jealous of people that are so outspoken and just doing whatever the heck we they want because we feel like, wait a second, I I'm not allowed to do that. Really.
I feel like I'm not allowed or I wouldn't do that. How can you do that? So I don't know. I do think a lot of people were probably jealous of her success. Again, like women being held to such a high standard of perfectionism. Yeah. And like, because she's outspoken and she cares about some causes and she's vocal about them. But obviously, as her blind spots, people just want to villainize her completely rather than accept that people are not perfect. According to her book, Not That
Kind of girl. It seems like Lena had a couple of boyfriends before Jack. A few casual counters too, although she didn't lose her virginity until sophomore year of college. Sorry Lena, I hope that's not weird, but you said it. That's a respectable age. Yeah. I mean, wait, never mind. Well, I don't want to say any age is not respectable, but it's a normal. I think that's the average age.
I feel like in most TV shows and such, they act like everybody has sex in high school and that always kind of bothered me. I remember. I remember. Do as much I know I was going to say, I remember being upset on Degrassi when the last virgin on the show had sex, 'cause I was like, I don't know what the heck, everybody had sex. That's honestly, that's pretty unrealistic. It's normal not to don't if you're a teenager listening, don't. Don't feel bad.
But I think that that storyline on Girls were Shoshanna. She almost sleeps with a guy and then she tells him that she's a virgin and then he doesn't want to anymore. That pretty much happened in real life to Lena. It's in her book. Oh wow. Yeah, a lot. A lot of the show is from her life, it seems. But yeah, she had been dating someone. I don't know who, but then it ended. And then then Jack and Lena met April 2012. They were set up on a blind
date. Well, as much of A blind date as it could be, because I think they're pretty famous already, but set up by either Jack's sister Rachel Antonov, or his friend, the comedian Mike Birbiglia. I read both. So I don't know who actually said maybe they both did, maybe they both were like, you should go out. But apparently Lena was 40 minutes late. I know. And Jack, despite this, Jack told The New Yorker.
I told Lena everything about my whole life, because when you really like someone, you want them to know everything about you. I guess it was a good date. Yeah. I don't think it's good to tell someone everything about your first date. You have to leave them wanting more, I know, and I I my next bullet point in my notes was that I do think that both of them seem like they are somewhat obsessive and nervous people, and also both very sentimental and nostalgic and romantic. So. That's cute.
But also, I can imagine that that makes things too much sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Even though their first date was April 2012, it wasn't reported to the public until September. And as I said, there were articles saying Lena Dunham is dating the guy from fun and I guess she asked to use some fun songs and girls. It's weird to call it fun songs, some fun songs.
December 2012 Jacquelina were seen kissing passionately outside Kings Rd. Cafe in LA, and at this point she already had her short hair and overalls and he was in his classic huge black glasses that he always wears. It's kind of like Tim Burton in that way. In 2013. Oh my God, Lena Dunham. January 2013, Lena adopted a rescue mutt named Lambie, who became her and Jack's dog. Oh yeah. Kevin, does this ring a bell to you?
Yes, my brother. I told him we were doing this episode and he goes, oh, I don't like her. Didn't she get rid of her dog? Yes, not yet in the story. But they do get rid of they re home, Lamby. Oh no, they don't kick him on the street or anything, but but Jack and Lena were obsessed with Lambie. They made an Instagram account for him and they just they were talking non-stop about this dog. They were absolutely obsessed. So that's why it seems so shocking later on when Lambie is
no longer living with them. But we're not. We're not there yet. That will happen. But spoiler what? That's. Bad, I know, I know. But I think. I think when you learn more about it, like it kind of makes sense. At least I think it does. But Lena was seen wearing a ring on her ring finger and asked if she was engaged. Don't they do that? F this is becoming such a trend. Why? She must have done that for a bit. It's so attention seagame. I could see her doing that, but
she said I am not engaged. I don't want to get married until all gay people can get married that that will come up again later, she went on Howard Stern, and apparently beforehand on his show, Howard had said that he didn't like girls and that the little fat chick looked like Jonah Hill and was a camera hog. Oh my God. But I know. But then later, after he watched more episodes with his wife, he changed his mind and admitted that he was addicted to the show and that he felt bad and wanted
to apologize to her. Oh, that's sweet. I know. So then Lena called into his show. This was actually just after she won some Golden Globes for girls, and they seemed to get along pretty well. And then at one point, she said to him, like, you know, I'm not that fat. And he said, you're not obese or anything. Oh my. God, I know. Oh, people are so mean to her about her weight. I know. Ridiculous.
That's again. Another reason, though, why I think that people want to hate her is because she's overweight. Yeah, but even though that was really horrible, what he said, I appreciate that. He said he was wrong and apologized. That is nice. Howard Stern also asked her about how she felt about the fact that Jack Antonoff used to date Scarlett Johansson and she said it doesn't give me that much anxiety. I feel good. I feel OK.
When somebody makes you feel special, I don't think you're that concerned about things like that. That's so true, yeah. If it's a healthy relationship, then you wouldn't feel insecure about it. Yeah, Fun won several awards at the Grammys that February, and then that's kind of like the last of fun and fun is over. Yeah, and then Lena participated in the We Think Alone project by Miranda July, where she wrote a love letter to Jack.
And I won't read the whole thing because we're going to have a lot of writing by her, but this is at the end of the letter she wrote. I felt I could spend 4 days on a beach with you and it wouldn't be enough time to hear all the stories you have to tell. I literally want to know everything you have ever seen and what you felt like while you were seeing it. And I will be so much better my whole life for knowing those things. I love you, Lena. Oh, that is love.
Yeah, she really loves him. It's really sweet. In the LA Times, Jack was asked about the controversy around girls. They were kind of talking about earlier, And he said, I try to stay out of it. There's no one stronger than Lena. That's nice. And then in this other article, even though she had just said that, you know, everything was fine about the Scarlett Johansson thing, she said that she felt like she was hallucinating when she learned that Jack used to date Scarlett Johansson.
I can see that, yeah. Now we're in 2014, Lena and Jack moved into a place in Brooklyn Heights together after previously living in Lena's apartment. Apparently it took a year to close the deal for some reason. Wait, so had they only been dating for a few months before moving in together? It seems kind of like it. I mean, they first met. They've been dating for a bit now because now it's 2014 and their first date was 2012. But it hasn't been two years yet.
It's been like a year and a half. Does seem like they moved in really quickly. Not as quickly as Pete and Ariana Grande, but yeah, because I actually couldn't figure out when he moved in with her. But it might have been pretty much right away because I think he was kind of between places, you know, touring. I don't. Know that's New York City for you. Yeah, exactly. Even for the rich and famous. Yeah.
Or economical. Yes, there was a Rolling Stone video called inside Jack Antonoff's Brooklyn apartment and he he just takes you around the place and you can see on the wall this sign. It's not a neon sign. It's like a light bulb sign. Do you know what I mean? It was like old fashioned light bulbs. Anyway, it says J Heart L OH. Cute. Yeah, it's really cute. And they have a lot of pictures of Lambie everywhere. Like art paintings of Lambie.
What is going to happen, Lambie? I know it sounds like they're really creative together. It sounds cool, like while he's making music, she's writing and there's doodles everywhere, and it just seems like a very cozy life they have. Going on March 2014, Lina directed his music video. I want to get better for Bleachers. I want to get better. I remember that November 2014, her book Not That Kind of Girl is published, which I mentioned earlier, and she wrote about Jack in it.
And I'm going to read a little passage. OK, this is page 76 for anybody else following along. If you can, turn your attention to page 76. All right Kelly, So this this chapter was kind of all about her different boyfriends. And then it says and then he appeared gap toothed, sculpey faced, glasses like a cartoon so earnest I was suspicious and so witty I was scared. I saw him standing there, yellow cardigan and hunched shoulders and thought, look, there's my friend.
The next months were lesson and opening up, letting go, being kind and brave. I have written all sorts of paragraphs recounting those months together. First kiss, first Mr. Softy. First time I noticed that he won't touch a doorknob without covering his hand with his
sweatshirt. I've written sentences about how the first time we made love, I felt like dropping my keys on the table after a long trip and after wearing his sneakers as we ran across the park toward my house, which would someday be our house. About the way he gathered me up after a long, terrible day and put me to bed about the fact
that he is my family now. I wrote it down, found the words that evoked the exact feeling of the edge of the park at 11:00 PM on a hot Tuesday night with the man I was starting to love. But surveying those words, I realized they are mine. They he is mine to protect. There's so much I've shared and so much that's been crushed by the sharing. I never mourned it because it never mattered. I don't know what that part means. Yeah, I don't get that Mourned. What?
So much I've shared and so much that's been crushed by the sharing. I never warned it. Oh, maybe she's talking about, like, her past relationships. Oh, OK, that she's Because I guess she, even though she wrote that about him and she does mention him throughout the book, she doesn't talk about him as much as she talks about other things. Yeah, so maybe that's what she's saying, that writing about things in her past made them, like, less important somehow. I don't know.
Anyway, I thought that that was just a really nice description insight into their relationship. He does seem like he's a safe haven for her and it just clicks like it all makes sense. Yeah, there were rumours again about an engagement, but Jack told ABC News. But they wouldn't be getting married till it's legal for everyone. That's what I personally believe, he said.
To me it seems odd to get married, especially when someone else can't, and I always believed, especially in my state, that it should be a country thing. Celebrities were always saying that back then and I well, I do think it is good to take a stand and like you know. It should be equal for everybody.
I almost wonder if, like, it's kind of a cop out for people too, if they're in a relationship but they're not really ready to be like, well, I'm, I'm not going to get married until it's legal for everyone. Oh yeah. But also like, in the back of their mind, they're like, but I don't really want to get married
anyway. Yeah, I think that this was important to them, but they did not really think because they had decided this, they were kind of able to push it off and not think about it. And this will come up once it is legalized, which is actually coming up very soon in the in the story that they actually realized that they hadn't strongly thought about it. Yeah, that's so true. You know, so then it's 2015 and Jack talked to the Times.
I don't know what times, but the Times about Lena and said we've been together for over 2 years, which for me is a long time, and I still want to know everything about her. That's what falling in love is. You're wrapped up in a mystery novel, lost in an exciting world. When I get home from the studio, Lena's the first person to hear anything and I can tell if something's good or not by her
reaction. We both work so much chip away to things for so long, but it's not like we get oversensitive. We're not 19. We can take criticism. I love criticism from her, so it sounds like he really loves her. They're in their 20s still at this point. By the time it's their birthdays this year, he is 31 and she's 29. OK. Yeah. So you know, a lot older, late 20s, early 30s, June 2015, gay marriage becomes legally recognized in the US and Lena tweeted excitedly about this.
Oh, she's very active on Twitter by the way, which is where like half of her faux pas and foot and mouths happen. But Lena was very excited and then she tweeted at Jack and said get on it yo dot dot dot. And he didn't reply. Oh my gosh, that's embarrassing, do you think? He replied privately, hopefully. But gosh, don't leave. Like, if I did that, like, I wouldn't want to be left hanging there. Oh no, that's so awkward.
I remember this actually. There were lots of news articles wondering if they would get married now like they said they would. And around this time, July, A month later, like July 2015 till 2017. This is when Lorde starts recording her album Melodrama with Jack Hinton off primarily at his and Lena's home studio at him and Lena's house. And Lorde actually lived there with them for a time. Oh wow. I know. I didn't know that. It's like she was adopted by them.
She could have been July. That same July, 2015, Lena wrote an article for The New Yorker about marriage and her perspective on it and how it had changed throughout her life. I don't know how quickly she wrote this, but she talked about meeting Jack and falling for him, and then his beliefs in equality for LGBTQ citizens and why that was the reason she fell in love with him, and she said I watched him struggle with the decision of whether or not perform at straight couples
wedding weddings. He discussed the matter at length with queer friends, concerned that it might be a form of betrayal. Ultimately he was given their blessing, though he seemed fairly tortured about it. Anyhow, the struggle was real and raw for Jack, and so somehow it became understood between us that we wouldn't even consider marrying, marrying until every American had the same right. And I said it probably whenever I had the chance.
With the grandiosity and intimidations of sacrifice you can hear from certain lesser vegans. But sometimes in a moment of deep gratitude, I would mutter these words to Jack unbidden, marry me. They became a kind of code, a way of giving millions of other kinds of loving thanks. And then she talks about how then, when the court, Supreme Court ruled gay marriage legal, she said soon after, another kind of text started to trickle in. Now you can get married.
Hello bride to be so. Sounds like she wants it a lot. Tea. I don't know. Yeah. So as I said, she's 29 now. He's 31. She went on Ellen and talked about this again and said the day gay, gay marriage became legal across this country, we were thrilled. We were celebrating. And then suddenly the text started coming in from our friends, from our mothers, from our exercise instructors. We kind of looked at each other. We were like, oh God, what have we done?
We're not going to suddenly just get engaged because it became legal. We better wait for a moment where we feel excited about this. And I'm excited to marry him at some point, but it felt like a lot of pressure to just go for it that day. And then she said we own a dog together, we own a home together, but the marriage thing is a big deal. Yeah, That's why I feel like when celebrities respond that way, it's an altruistic way to just not answer the question.
They're afraid. Of their own sake. So they're just like using it as a cop out. Just say I don't want to answer, Yeah, I know they don't have that. They don't have that cop out anymore. What do people usually say when they are trying to avoid the question? Yeah, nowadays. Let's see. Are you going to get married Any. Oh, they probably say, you know, I don't care about the piece of paper. Oh yeah. Yeah, What does Zac Efron say? It's serving me for now, serving
me for now. I don't know about tomorrow, the next day, but right now it is serving me. I wish I had been. I wish I had been doing this all along. But I would love to compile just like the iconic quotes from I know people we've covered like that. So OK, now we're in 2016. There's the Grammys bleachers, Taylor Swift. Jack's working with her. Lena's hanging out with her all the time. That's what's going on right now. But also, Lena has been
hospitalized a couple times. She's had a few surgeries for her endometriosis. It seems like she's really suffering with that. She had a ruptured ovarian cyst. April Jack gives Lena an anniversary ring for four years together. Oh, so it's been 4 years. I feel like if you were really wanting. To get engaged and someone gives you an anniversary ring, it's like, OK, I wonder if she was disappointed. Yeah, you're like what? Does this. Whoa, I heard that. It's like, what does?
Oh my God. Hands of the city, It's fitting because they lived in New York. They lived in Brooklyn. That's true. September 2016 is the final day of filming Girls, and I think it was hard for Lena. She said that it was part of her identity and that she was kind of lost after. And then November, Hillary Clinton lost the presidential election, and Lena was very involved in that campaign and seemed devastated.
By that. And then continued to experience a lot of pain and issues from her endometriosis. It seems like she was in the hospital a lot and just generally having a lot of bad days. Yeah. Endometriosis is sometimes I think I have it, but it just seems so awful because it's like there's no relief, doesn't even matter what time of the month it is. Have you ever talked to a doctor about it? How do they like? How do? They it's very The thing is
that. It's so hard to diagnose because for the most part I think you can only officially be diagnosed is if you have surgery and like they see the scar tissue and stuff. So, like, just to get a diagnosis I think is really adds like a lot of validation, but it's really hard. Yeah, I mean, surgery is always serious. So then February 2017, at age 31, Lena had a hysterectomy. Wow, I know.
And about this, she said. I've been battling endometriosis for a decade and this will be my 9th surgical procedure. No doctor has ever confirmed this for me, meaning like that she has to do this. But they've told me I have a slightly higher chance of miscarriage. Their goal is for preserve my fertility. That is what they consider to be their job, and I laugh and smile. But I know that the blank space, the blank hole is an empty womb captured on screen is all I'll
ever see. And she said that the pain had become unbearable and that she'd tried everything she said. I go to pelvic floor therapy, massage therapy, pain therapy, color therapy, acupuncture, yoga, and a brief yet horrifying foray into vaginal massage from a stranger. Oh my God, I know. I didn't know that. I didn't know they offered that. I know it's really sad though, because she has repeatedly said that she wants to be a mother and experience pregnancy. Yeah, that is very extreme.
I read when that when she got her hysterectomy, I read articles that said that doesn't actually help with endometriosis, that you can still experience pain after. But I haven't looked into it, so I don't, yeah, I mean, you've got something I don't know enough about.
I think that it didn't end all the pain because part of it is that you have the tissue outside of your uterus and everything, but I think I think it did help a bit and she actually, after that had her left ovary removed too, which I didn't know that that was left. It's really serious though, because doing the surgery caused her to go through the early stages of menopause just in her. Early 30s, Yeah. Which is also a huge hormonal change. Yeah. So she's like in Perimenopause,
already in her 30s. Then June 2017, people started to notice how odd it was that Lena and Jack hadn't posted any pictures of Lambie, their dog, in a while because they used to be obsessed. And then Lena posted on her Instagram, telling the world that after four years of challenging behavior and aggression, she had given Lambie to a new owner, Danny Shea, who is more educated in Lambie specific trauma and can better handle him. What type of dog was Lamby? He was like he was a pretty
small dog, it seems. Oh, maybe it was a mix. People were really tearing her apart for this. But I don't know. I think that she kind of did what she had to do because there's a lot of stories of Lamby biting people. Oh yeah, and not if. They live in the city, yeah. Yeah, and it wasn't even just her. Like, even back in 2013. So this is way before this happened. She had tweeted something about Lambie, like biting her butt or
something. And Jack's sister Rachel and Lina's, two of Lina's friends on Twitter said that Lambie also bit them. And it's kind of weird because Lina seemed to be, like, laughing it off, but they actually seemed annoyed by it. Yeah, I would be annoyed too, if someone's dog bit me and the person wasn't that sorry about it. I know I. I hate the idea of anyone giving their dog away because the dog doesn't know and it's you're their family.
But it seems like in this situation they're probably doing what was best for Lamby and I bet it was really hard for them. But it's better that the dog is in a home where they're getting properly trained and they're probably not in the city anymore. And so the dog isn't around people as much and is not put in situations where God forbid it. He might attack somebody and then have to get put down, yeah. I mean, I I think it's clear that they loved Lambie.
I don't really get why people freaked out about this so much because I've known some people that had to give up their dogs, and I don't think they're like evil people for it. They just. And I bet it was a heartbreaking decision that they had to make. Yeah, it it seemed like it was. But then it got really dramatic because the shelter that she got Lambie from claimed that he had no issues. But I feel I don't trust that because they're just trying to
defend their shelter. And you know, it's kind of like a when a business gets a bad review and then they're gangs to respond. Just seem like, yeah. And like you said, it seems like there's evidence that Lambie did bite people. Yeah, I mean, also, unless she was, I mean, she's so TMI as we said, and she shares so much about her life and unless she orchestrated this or she caused this, I don't know. But she had even posted pictures of herself bleeding from Lambie biting her.
Where the anger might be coming from is some celebrities seemingly do get dogs and then get rid of them really quickly as if they're accessories, which I think when you adopt A pet, that should be for life and you should go into it thinking that you're going to be. The caretaker for life. But yeah, in this situation, it probably was in Lambie's best interest not to be put in situations where he might have to get put down for behavioral issues, yeah.
That's probably better to, like, not be in a New York City apartment. Yeah. And I don't know, I mean, it seems like she she claims she was super dedicated to him and she has had other pets since then too. But she probably is busy also and is maybe just not the right person to, you know, take on a dog that has a lot of needs. And I I do think a lot of pets
do have issues from a shelter. It's not saying that there's anything wrong with the shelter, but I think it is just traumatic to be placed in one in the first place. Yeah. And then definitely, I mean, I even think like my cat lived in a shelter and I feel like he had some issues. I wouldn't blame anybody. And it's just it is what it is. She did have two new poodles at this time, Susan and Karen, I think. She has. I think that makes it a little bit. I do think that makes it a
little bit worse that she had. Poodles that She got two, Yeah. Then she got two dogs that are like, more designer Y I know. Anyway, so that's the Lambie drama. It's another time Nina Dunham got herself in trouble on the Internet. But how come Jack's not in trouble for that? I know exactly, right? Wasn't it Jack's dog too? Yeah. See, everyone's so much harder on her. I know. What about Jack Antonoff? What the heck? I also hate this idea.
I've seen this a little bit lately with Jack marrying Margaret quality where people are like, oh wow, Jack really upgraded. Like people want to act like Jack. Yeah, like people want to act like Jack was a victim in this relationship, that he was like tied down by Lena Dunham. That's so terrible. I know. So then, November 2019, Lena wrote on Twitter that she thought Jack was proposing that that turned out not to be true. OK, Lena, put your phone away.
This is a little too much, too much. Oh gosh, I'm cringing. Well wait till you hear this, she said. I thought Jack was furtively planning a proposal to me with his sister, and he just admitted I actually caught him shit talking shit about me. Now I literally can't sleep because I'm laughing too hard and I'm also keeping him awake 5.5 years, no rock. And you know what? It's real nice. Lena. Why are you? Telling this us this, I think it's so.
I think it's a bad sign when people are that open about their relationship. I know because I don't know. But are are they sitting in bed and she's tweeting about him? I don't know. I'm imagining, imagining it, that he's still in the other room. Oh my gosh, imagine. Then he goes on Twitter and he's like, Lena, What the fuck? I know. Why did he do that? Because it seems like he's definitely not trying to propose. I know there's one more tweet, she said.
They were huddled and I heard him say Lena and Finger, so it obviously seemed like an engagement. Ring talk. But she was actually shitting on her. Yeah. What could that be? Finger. Finger. Yeah. Why didn't she tell? Did she hurt her finger or something? What happened? That could be anything that I really, I do think that people were talking about engagements. I don't know.
Like even though a finger is involved in that, it's not like a word that it's not necessarily a keyword in the ritual of a proposal. Someone might say like ring size. Exactly. Or hand like. How does it look on her hand but finger? I don't know. I don't think, yeah. Oh, Lena. Oh, Lena. And then I feel so bad for her because only a couple months after this Twitter exchange, January 2018 news comes out that Jack and Lena have broken up after almost six years together. Wow, yeah.
So her tweeting that, it's almost like, is she so comfortable with him that she's confident that they will get engaged? Or is it eating at her that he's not proposing yet and so she's acting out? I know it kind of seems like both. It is weird that she said 5.5 years no rock. And you know what? It's real nice. That seems a bit. Salty seems like salty, but she's trying to convince herself otherwise. I know. Oh, it's very cringe worthy.
It's very cringe worthy. Both of their reps confirmed it and Lena's said that the break was amicable. Imagine having a Rep. I know it would be nice, yeah, who knows if this is true? But an insider told Us Weekly. As the years went on, it just wasn't a match. She has been through so much and she's still trying to figure out the best steps forward for herself and her career. Doing it on her own is the best thing for her now. Navigating her career forward, making good decisions.
OK, I I believe the first part, but I don't think I I don't buy the the breakup had anything to do with her. Career. No. Me neither. I don't think he was holding her back career wise. And she was. The busiest she had ever been when they were newly dating. Yeah, and which is when you need to. Almost put the most effort into the relationship because you're getting to know each other. I think she had a lot more free time at this point. I mean, she had, she did have
projects, she was staying busy. She had the Lenny Letter, which was this newsletter she was doing with Jenny Connor and they were trying to do all these things like published books. I think she had a podcast and she she wasn't doing nothing, but I don't think it would be as busy as running a show.
You know, on her podcast that I don't know if it's still going because they haven't published any episodes in a year, but the C word it's called, I listened to a couple episodes of it and she mentioned that she didn't say which breakup, but I feel like I could guess which one. She said that she got so many texts from people after the news came up saying just wanted to say hi, people wanting to know what happened, but like just coming out of the woodwork. So I thought that was
interesting. But she also said that it kind of hurt her because she felt like a lot of people that knew her were more interested in her now that she was sad and that this was happening than before. You know what I mean? Like all her acquaintances and people she worked with were. I mean, it comes from a good place. I think they want to help. Her a good place. I think she's better than the alternative, that they don't care about you now that you're no longer with Jack Antonoff.
That's true. I feel like I got what she was saying, though, that they weren't really there for her other times. And then when this happened, they. I can think she just thought that some people wanted the gossip. Oh yeah, you know, that makes sense. I think she does have some friends that care about her to the cut, she said. I feel like the cut was a big outlet for them, she said. Our relationship probably lasted
longer than it should have. He's a very loyal person, so he was not going to bail when the going got tough. He literally held my hand when I got an enema on New Year's Eve while his family celebrated. But when you're sick, so much energy goes into making sure the other person is well that you're not even noticing. Maybe our schedules aren't compatible. Maybe we want different things out of our lives. Maybe we have different attitudes about what family means.
Maybe these essential questions that people have to ask themselves all the time are not being asked because we just want to make sure that I don't pass out at the grocery store. Yeah, they're in survival mode. Yeah. Yeah. I I don't know. To me, it does seem like he ended it. Yeah, I'm getting that too. A source said that he was seeing someone else shortly after. This. That's got to be painful, Yeah. And the crazy thing is that this wasn't Us Weekly. I mean, OK, I don't know if we
can even trust them. First of all, I've never really trusted them that much. But there was statement that said the relationship is done and he has moved on. But then if you look at the Google cache version of the story, like in the back end, because somebody, someone notices I didn't, I didn't discover this. No, no, I didn't discover this. Somebody else discovered this that if you look at the CAGED version it says it's done and is moved on with in seeing someone else who is a musician.
This was Us Weekly, yeah. But they removed Lord. And yeah, a lot of people do wonder about Jack's relationship with Lord the singer and if anything was there or if there was overlap. And I remember you talked to me about this once and I was like, no, I don't think so. But I had not honestly looked too much into it, Mel. So then I did and it is interesting. OK, so I'll just, I'll tell you some things.
So as we said that Lord was like living in their house for a while and they were obviously very close making her record. And I did watch a clip of them performing at Outside Lands Music Festival and they did seem really cozy. They were like sitting super close together and Lord kind of like squeezed his knee. Person on Twitter named Hillary made a 39 page PowerPoint you can still view to prove that something happened between Lord and Jack and I.
Love when people do this. I know honestly, a lot of the evidence. I don't know. It wasn't really convincing me that much, but there were some things. Like Lorde has said, we were obsessed with each other and that they Facetimed every day. And Lorde wrote a huge paragraph for him on his birthday. And then they were also seen in Auckland, New Zealand, where she's from walking down the street and she was like hugging her arms around him. Oh yeah, that's intimate.
Yeah, very intimate and apparently. Lena unfollowed Lorde and deleted her previous tweets about Lorde that had all been really positive. Yes, that is the most damning. I know that proves it. I. Think so. But it's odd for me because really quickly after all of this, he started dating somebody else named Carlotta Cole, a model. So I'm like, what if he I wonder if he cheated with Lorde? I don't know.
But then he dated this Carlotta girl really soon after I I don't have the month, but literally like maybe right around this time him and Lord cheated but he didn't leave Lena for Lord. Maybe. I feel like something may be bad. Yeah. I know, and I don't know if something happened between them. It I don't think lasted because then he's dating. This Carlotta girl. But it is interesting because if something did happen, Jack did still work with her on her third
album. So I don't really get how that works. But also, no offense Lord, I've always been a big fan of yours. But that third album was not the best, so maybe their relationship wasn't as good anymore. Yeah, maybe you just gave her the scraps. Yeah, actually some people have said that yeah, it does. It does seem not as strong. Yeah, one of the songs sounds so much like one of Lana's songs on chemtrails, and everyone has pointed that out, so maybe he
kind of phoned it in that time. Lena was actually asked about these rumors with the cut and. She answered. I mean, when does Lena never not answer a question? I know, she said. I don't think anything happened between them. I can never know someone else's life. I have never spoken to Ella. That's her real name about it. We haven't. Yeah. We haven't talked since Jack and I broke up. It was awful and I couldn't do anything about it except trust what he was saying to me was
true. Oh my God. She just told us a lot without. I know telling us first of all she called Lord by her first name to me that's like that's kind of, I don't know what do you think about that that's how. She, yeah. And also that she does know her pretty well. But to say I don't think anything happened and to say would she say that like I trusted what? Yeah, she said. I couldn't do anything about it except trust that what he was saying to me was true. Yeah, to me.
That tells me she had her suspicions. Yeah, because. But maybe she didn't like proof. Yeah, And, she says. I don't know what happens in anyone else's life. Yeah, it seems like something that she's really had to reconcile with. Like, did did something happen? And she's letting go of the need to have control over it by just accepting that. She'll never really know, but she just has to accept. And it is crazy that we haven't talked since we broke up.
I think that's weird because I. Think the word basically lived with her? Yeah, and that she deleted the tweets. Even if something didn't happen, she clearly had her suspicions and was uncomfortable, and it's unfortunate that Jack put her in the situation to be uncomfortable. I know he shouldn't. Honestly, he should not be Facetiming Lord every single
day. If he's in a relationship, especially if he's dating someone who has health issues going on, then they're going to be even more nervous. Someone who just had a hysterectomy like, oh, am I not attractive enough anymore? And Lord's way younger. Yeah, so that's tough. I feel like in this relationship he was probably giving most of his time to so many other women that he's collaborating with. I know. I don't really get why he always collaborates with women, yeah.
I don't get creepy vibes from him, but it's it's just odd. I don't know. Yeah, 'cause he's also so close with all the women that he collaborates, yeah. They all act like I have a special bond with Jack, yeah. Whereas usually I feel like other music producers, they're just like, yeah, we had a great time in the studio. He really did a great job. Like, I don't know. I feel like Ed Sheeran. He collaborates with a lot of different musicians, male or female, and it's not as intense.
Yeah, they don't act like they're soul mates because they made a record together, but I feel like everyone Jack works with, it's like that. It's like we were up day and night together. Us at the piano. Like we poured our hearts out to each other, Yeah. What is up with that? Lena talked also to The Cut about Jack's new relationship with the model Carlotta Cole and
said. I thought I was kind of proving weird girls can have love too, and now he's dating somebody who looks regular and normal and like girls are supposed to look. That is painful. But oddly, Lena follows this Carlotta lady on Instagram and it seems like they actually worked together more recently, so way after all this happened. But I think Carlotta is a photographer too, and it seems like she did some work for Lena's movie Sharp Stick and that she even tagged Lena and stuff.
So. Interesting. Maybe they bonded after Carlotta and Jack broke up. I don't know why. Yeah, I thought that would be pretty bonding to become friends with someone who also dated your ex after the fact. It's. Kind of always been my dream to talk to a girl that dated someone that I did. This never happened. Yeah, and like, share notes and be like me too. Oh my God, that that really could create a beautiful friendship. It.
Could it could. Also, sadly for Lena, around this time of her breakup with Jack, her and her longtime creative partner Jenny Connor also went their separate ways. They had made girls together, and they had a production company together, and Lenny lettered their newsletter. They did. They dissolved both of them, and I don't know, it seems like they stopped being friends. I don't. Know. And Lena seems really distraught about this.
Wake up too, and wrote about it and said maybe my illness made me impossible to be close to. Maybe my fame made me impossible to be close to. I'll work that stuff out in the future. But I was not operating in healthy relationships to the people closest to me. Now she doesn't have to absorb whatever bullshit I tweet that day. Whatever I do doesn't have to now be hers, which I'm sure I'd imagine if I were her it would be a relief. And then she said, yeah, I'm not
for everybody. You know what that's reminded me of? Liability by Lauren. That song really is Lena's anthem, though. She really is. She is not for everybody, and that's a tough pill to swallow. Yeah, I remember, Lena tweeted one time something about I can't listen to any of my favorite breakup songs because my ex-boyfriend produced all of them. Oh yeah, that will be tough. She wrote a lot of essays about. This breakup I I found four of them. She wrote A lot about it.
That's a healthy way to channel your energy. Better than tweeting about it, too, because you really have to. Yeah, Thought into what you're saying. Yes, she definitely tweeted, too. She's just talking about this left and right like crazy. It is sad though. I I feel bad for her at this point. Like I can tell she's really, really struggling and really heartbroken. She talks about the end of the relationship, realizing that it's over and she said the finality nearly killed me and I
remember muttering. But what if we still want on Went on dates, He laughed sadly. Whatever you want. I know. And the rest of the essay, she goes on, talking about getting used to being alone again. And then this is crazy. August 2018, months after the relationship has ended because he broke up in January, Lena tweeted a picture of a list of baby names she had made with Jack in 2015. Lena, I know, OK? Like now you're kind of showing us why you guys broke up.
Because seems like you have. Poor impulse control she does. Oh, Lena, she said. Hey at Jack Antonoff I just found, she tweeted at Lena. I just found a potential baby name list we made in 2015. I could definitely keep this private, but then the world wouldn't know that you suggested Carrot over and over. dot, dot. dot. Love you. Exclamation mark, Exclamation mark, Exclamation mark. Do you want to hear? That's kind of yeah. But wait, that's really unhinged of her. I'm sorry.
He might be newly dating somebody else now, right? Yeah. Is he dating that model at this point? Yes, yeah, he's in a relationship and it's like you're trying to prove to the world we were so serious about each other that we were even talking about having a baby together. Yeah, OK. Yeah. I want to hear the names though. OK, the list is. Oz. OZ OK Kelly. Oh your name. I know Thank you not NA OK Carrot. Carrot. Ricky Lee. Jackie. Eddie. Joy. Sara Lee. Zavi.
Tony with an eye. Camilla Loretta. RA, Shogo and Claire. Oh, see, But here, here's the other thing. Now she's taking away his opportunity to ever use any of these names because his future wife would be like, wasn't that the name you were talking about with your ex-girlfriend? I know, Lena. That is so weird. And did he respond? Oh my gosh, so. I hope you're not listening, Lena. I really am rooting for you. After the list went out, she called Jack a few times and he
didn't pick up right away. I wonder if she's blocked because why? Also she have. To Well, then he did get back to her. He was in the studio I guess, and then he, I think, I don't know if it was a text or a phone call, but he said no, it's funny. Oh OK. But still that sounds. That's chill of him. It is chill, but it kind of sounds like he's just being like, yeah, yeah, not even putting any energy into it. Like, don't freak out. Like, it's funny.
It's almost a worse it's, I know, different to it. Oh God and. She said I think this was to the cut. She is telling this whole story, she said. He knows that being the hysterical ex-girlfriend is kind of like the weirdest, funniest public performance. But she admits that it hurts, too. You know what? In a way I relate to her, though, 'cause don't we all do those things where we're like, that was too much of me. Like, why am I making the situation worse?
I mean, I don't think I'd ever do that, but I've definitely acted like a fool and I've been like, Jesus, why are my emotions getting the better of me right now? I know, I like. That's why it's so hard to read about all this in a way 'cause you can, kind of. Relate to the urge to do things like that. But I know, especially when her whole persona is TMI and pushing the envelope, that it's like it's kind of in character for her to do, but it's too far. She also told E that she'll
always wear the ring. He gave her the anniversary ring because love doesn't have to be defined the way we in Western culture define it as beginnings and ends. Oh, that's sweet. I mean, it is like she's holding on to a part of her past. I mean, that reminds me of our Carly Simon and James Taylor episode. When Carly was like, I found peace when I accepted that I could still love somebody even after the relationship was over.
It doesn't have to end. Yeah, that can really help because sometimes the hardest thing is feeling like you have to let go of that love and like you don't want to. Or you don't feel ready yet and it's OK to still love somebody and not do anything about it. Yeah, November 2018. She was interviewed for the cut again and said I texted Jack last week and said this isn't capital letters. How does it feel to have dated someone everybody hates?
And he wrote back the only they only hate you because they love you so much. True story. Which is like what a sweetie. What a liar and a sweetie does seem like she wants to get back together. Yeah, and she said that Jack used to tell her you're a provocateur and you don't even know it. You have to look at the fact that when you say things, you're not just trying to please. Sometimes you're actively trying
to displease people. And he forced me to look at the side of myself that had the desire to poke the sleeping bear. I feel bad for her because it just, it seems like she's going through a tough time. She's also talking about how she's struggling seeing. People around her that are pregnant and having babies and yeah then I'm not sure when in 2018. But at some point in 2018 she attended rehab for her addiction to anti anxiety medication, specifically Klonopin.
And she said I was to put it lightly, misusing benzos even though it was all doctor prescribed it stopped being. I take one when I fly to I take one when I'm awake. So. It seems like she did get help though, and she's been sober to this day. That's good. Yes, yes. She continued to write a lot about Jack, though 20/19. She wrote for Domino magazine, which is like a home magazine about buying a house with him. And she wrote about how she decorated the place without him and.
He hated it. Which she shouldn't have done that, I know, and it seems like it really hurt her for some reason. I don't know. I do think she's a little unreasonable, like you should. Again, that reminds me of Carly and James because of the pool.
And then in 2019, she wrote about heartbreak again, this time for the Guardian. And it was an article about British Love Island. But she also talked about Jack in it. Let me see at the I mean, I don't know if I'll read the whole thing, but I just thought it was sad at the end, she said. I hope I meet someone who is OK with an infertile, chubby, controlling fantasist who has made a lot of mistakes but can't stop trying. I hope I can show my children what it means to love.
With intention, without losing oneself. I hope the villa is always full of smiling faces, hopeful hearts, tearful losses and ecstatic gains. I hope we can keep cracking on into the future forever. I hope that Summer never ends. So it seems like she was hopeful that she would meet somebody again. Yeah, it does seem like she is a hopeless romantic. She is. It definitely seems like we've seen this in some other relationships that Jack never
really talked as much about. Lena, it's not that he didn't. He was avoidant about it or anything. Like I saw him mention her in some interviews, but I mean, he's not like her. Like he's not going to write a whole essay about the first time they made love or whatever, but do you think he's written about her and his music since the breakup? A lot of Jack's earlier Happy Love songs by Bleachers. I'd say both. The first two albums I think we can infer about Lena.
He even has a song on his second album called Let's Get Married, which is very sweet and I think it's about her. But then on his 2021 album Take the Sadness out of Saturday Night, which is after their breakup, he has a song called Don't Go Dark, which seems like it could be about Lena, and it's quite negative. The lyrics are what are you going to ride for no one at all? Hey, are you going to cry on demand just to get your number called? Oh, baby, I know gone. I know gone.
I know out of this world. Because I've slept in my bed alone next to my girl. So what do you want? Just don't go dark on me. And then he says. Then you cry on my shoulder like little child. Do what you want. Just don't go dark on me. And you're waiting to be saved. But ain't nobody coming. It's the same party. Trick your dream until you're running. Do what you want. Just don't go dark on me. And at one point he says, I dream A Little Dream she's not out of it.
Then I watch her take another pill, take another pic, then flip another switch. You've just been waiting your whole life to find someone who can stand in your storm. I stood there and something was missing. I still see you, honey, babe. But it ain't me that you'll be kissing. So I think that's clearly about her. And it just sounds like someone that has a lot of troubles. And he's basically saying, like, I can't be part of this anymore, yeah. I feel like he had moved on and he has.
He is married now to the actress Margaret Quali. And I think it's so interesting because she was in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and so was Lena. Yeah, they're both in the cult, the Manson cult, so they know each other. So weird, I know. But Lena has moved on too. She. Got married. She met the English Peruvian musician Louise Felber in January 2221, and then seven months later they got married. Oh, that's good. Yeah. And she seems seven months later after meeting. Yeah.
Oh wow. That's quick, I know. She really wanted to get married, you know. You know, by the way, the what's, what's that song? Margaret. Yeah, Margaret, that's about Margaret quality. It is so interesting, all these other characters like Taylor Swift and Lana, because Lana seems very to be very good friends with Jack and Margaret Quali. And then I know Taylor Swift was
friends with both of them. I don't know if she's still friends with Lena. I think she is still friends with Lena, but it does seem like she spends a lot of time with Jack. And if I was Lena, that would be hard for me. Yeah, me too. I feel like if I go through a really bad breakup with someone,
I don't really. Not that I want to put friends in a position where they have to choose between you, but it can be a little too painful to hear about the friend from the other person until yeah, witness them get to spend time with someone that you miss a lot. I think it would be really hard, but yeah, she has a lot of connections to him still, so I don't. Know chances that they'll get back together? Zero. Yeah, honestly, the baby name tweet was the nail in the coffin. I know.
That and I feel bad because it seems like she was embarrassed that she did that. I know who gets. Custody of you probably. Jack. I think I'll still say Lena I I would like to hang out with her. I think she'd be funny. But yeah, Jack does. I do feel bad for her, but yeah, I can. I can picture her being someone who is hard to be around sometimes, like, she said. But it does seem like she has a self-awareness about that. And but I do love people who are
just authentically themselves. Me too. I don't know, I think. She would. Lovely. Annoying. Yeah, I expect. I don't know. I didn't come out of this loving Jack Antonoff. I thought I would get to know him more and like him more, but I don't know. Kind of, really. I don't feel like I yeah, I don't feel like I got to know him as much through this other than he seems a little bit passive. Yeah, he does seem passive.
It seems like maybe he would have wanted the relationship to end sooner but was just going on with it and that's basically what she said. Well, I wish them both the best. Me too. I'm happy that they both have found partners and yes and moved on and well, I guess we we already said what next week's episode is. Next week on the Patreon, we're picking up where we left off with Ariana Grande and Pete Davidson and our last episode.
It's so weird that this was such a short relationship that there's way too much to say that we couldn't even fit it all in one episode. So in our last episode, we only covered the first two months of their relationship, and in the next episode we will cover the next two months of their relationship, the final two months, and anything after the fact. I can't wait. OK. Well, thank you guys so much for listening. And we'll get back together next week. Back together next week.
Is your heart filled with pain? Shall I come back again? 10 Medium.