We're back again. Another Nicholas Cage movie. I can't believe it's only the third. It's only the third. Yeah, we're this week we're taking our faces off. Oh, we've already taken What you didn't know, what I didn't tell you actually, Sarah, is to prepare for the show. What I did is when you're asleep, I made you sleep deeper with some drugs and I cut your face off and I cut mine off and I swapped our faces and our voices and I'm actually you. I'm actually Sarah and you're actually Dan.
This is so confusing. I feel like I would know that. I'm looking looking at you right now and you look like Dan. Yeah, because I've done the surgery. But my brain is telling me that I am Sarah. So, oh, but that's what that's your brain tricking you because your eyes are the the windows of your soul. This is such b*******. It's not straight out of the gate talking nonsense. Watch this movie and they explain everything perfectly via science.
I I don't know if they explained it perfectly by science. Didn't you believe Color? No. And when he was telling him about taking faces doing haircuts. I didn't buy it for a second. Not even when they 3D printed that ear for Gavin Bellson. Gavin Bellson. I didn't know it was Gavin Bellson. We're getting way too far ahead of ourselves. Yeah, you're right. Um 1997. It's a '90s movie. It is.
Last week, The Rock was 1996. This week, the year after his next movie face off 1997. We've done a few from 1997 now. This will be our fourth. Mhm. Three others. You think they will? I don't know. So, One of them are mine, one of them are yours. I forget this every single cocking time. Well, there's Conair, uh, which is obviously another Nicholas Cage movie. Yeah, they were filmed kind of back to back, weren't they? I think it was, um, and released almost at the same time.
Yeah, I I Yes. Okay. Um, you just can't even be bothered to fight me on it. I don't know. I honestly don't know. I just probably I know they were They're both 97s, so probably. Uh, Starship Troopers, of course, and Cube. of our other 90s movie, right? Yeah. It's our second John Travolta movie. The first being Carrie. The first being Carrie. It's It's our second John Woo movie. It's our second John Woo movie. We've sort of come full circle cuz um our very first episode was on Hardboiled.
Yeah. And and as we were watching this, I did think this could have slotted nicely into season one or two. Yeah. And I probably did consider mentioning them for both cuz that was before we were sort of taking in turns to pick a season, wasn't it? We both combined that. Our first three, I think, were combined seasons. Uh, yeah. So, it's our second John Woo movie. You're welcome. But I am sorry that it's our second John Travolta movie. I know how much you adore him as a person and an actor.
He's not my favorite as a chin. I know he's your favorite chin man. He is 80% chin. His head is massive. I know. We spoke about that. We've spoken about that before. I can't get over it. I It's Yeah, I know. That's the most unbelievable part of this story, isn't it? Is that Nicholas Cage's face would would stretch over John Travolta's skull? They would have had to shape his bone down.
Yeah. Um, so when did you first see it then? What was your what was your W were you like, oh, I see this at a cinema or renting it immediately? Like cuz I I was renting it like it came out of Blockbuster. I remember me and my mates cycle down to Blockbusters during the summer. Rented Face Off. Holy s***. I'm buying that immediately. Um I'm guessing you didn't have the same experience. What? No. How did you first see it? Um I honestly can't remember. Probably on telly, wouldn't it?
Yeah, probably. Probably half watched it while I was in my chips. God, will you still love me after this episode is done? That's the question. We got through the rock last week. All right. If we can get through that, we can get through anything. And I would Like on that note, I'd like to apologize for ragging on a movie that you love so hard. Don't worry. It's it's I was hurt by it, but you know, it's it's it's in the past now. And I bought your presents. I did the guilty partner thing.
You didn't need to do that. You didn't need to do that. Um but as we're sort of getting through our Nicholas Cage season, I in our very first episode in Vampires Kiss, I made the grand gesture, the promise that I would deliver three facts about Nicholas Cage in each episode. Are you regretting that already?
So that's 24 facts. And I thought, "Oh, that's a piece of piece. It's Nicholas Cage." And while it's probably doable, it's a lot of work and I'm going to be very busy coming up. So I'm going to map that off completely and I'm just going to do a fact if I feel like it. Right. Okay. But I do have them today. Oh, excellent.
Find out whether or not I have some for next week. Um, so it's more of a Superman fact this one. And you're probably familiar with Nicholas Cage who very nearly played Superman, but do you know how actually close it was to getting made? Uh, no. Well, he was um it was called Superman Lives. A suit was made and you can go on the internet and see that suit. Have you seen it? The lights on and stuff. It's pretty crazy. I believe so. Like my my only recent exposure to this was uh in The Flash,
right? Yes. Spoilers for that terrible movie. Yeah, that's I did think about that before I said it, but then I was like, who gives a f*** about the Flash? No one cares about the Flash. Yeah, you're right. I'd completely forgotten about that actually. And that was that was a very inside joke that I feel like everyone that's listening to this probably is aware of the fact that he played super almost played Superman.
But I don't think like your casual movie go your casual movie go is going to go is that Nicholas Cage? Why is he in this as Superman? Isn't Nicholas Cage like obsessed with Superman though? Yeah. I think one of his kid I thought so. I was Yeah, I was racking my brains. That's my first Nicholas Cage fact. Oh yeah. I'm joking. Sorry. Oh, no.
Yes. So, a suit was made for him. You can go on the internet and look at that. That's really cool. Uh Kevin Smith wrote a draft uh for the producer John Peters in 1996, who's a bit Have you heard of John Peters? No. Bit of a bit of a crazy guy. You can if you I got most of this um on a on research I was doing, but I had years ago seen the death of Superman Lives which is a documentary all about it made by the late great John Schnep. So, if you can access that. Highly recommend seeing that. But John Peters had three rules for for Kevin Smith. Um the first one while he was writing the screenplay. The first one being that Superman has to wear a black suit. Number two, he didn't want Superman to fly.
Okay, it's kind of the what Superman is. So he's just a regular guy. Well, we I don't know if he could jump a bit cuz that was the original thing. Uh big jump. And then um the third rule is that Superman had to fight a giant spider in the third act. Oh, right. Okay. You probably heard that one. Like it it didn't the film obvious never happened. But John Peters produced Wild Wild West where they fought a giant mechanical spider. Is he obsessed with that notion? Isn't that the weirdest thing?
He's so hung up on people fighting a giant spider. Has he seen Big Ass Spider? He'd lose his mind. It's his favorite movie. He probably produced that. He's definitely the spider guy. Um Robert Rodriguez was offered to direct it, but he opted to go for the faculty instead. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. I do love the faculty.
Yeah. Yeah, the Faculty is a good movie. I'm I'm glad that that happened the way that it did. Uh Smith suggested Tim Burton as well and Burton came on board and was paid I think 5 million or a 5 million deal. Oh, is this in place? So, is this prior to the Kevin Smith Tim Burton feud I guess?
Well, I wonder if this was the thing that caused it because um Burton after Burton came on board, he started demanding rewrites of of Smith's script and after about a year of pre-production, the film was shelled because of the ballooning cost. And I don't know, maybe Smith was like, "We could have just made my version. It would have been fine." But by the time he started demanding rewrites and it got held up in the writer room, maybe maybe that's why it didn't happen. And maybe that's why I I mean, you could probably have beef about Tim Burton for numerous reasons.
Well, yeah, but there is that. Yeah. Um, but Nicholas Cage signed on to be uh to be in it for 20 million quid and it was meant to come out in 1998. So, um, did he what did he have coming out in 1998. Oh, it's Snake Eyes, wasn't it? I guess so. To that later. I wonder if that'll be relevant. Yeah. And then Tim Burton, of course, went on to do the Planet of the Apes remake. Planet of the Apes remake. Yeah. Which, as we all know, is a Stone Cold classic.
Masterpiece. Wberg at his finest, isn't it? Mark Wahberg in a Planet of the Apes remake. Mark Wahberg shouldn't be in any movies ever. Agreed. What is my favorite Mark Wahberg movie? I still kind of like four brothers, but it's despite him, not because of him. And there there are three other brothers in it. Yeah. As well, so you got that. One of them is Tyrese Gibson, isn't it? Yeah.
Well, yeah. Um Yeah. So, my my other fact is um it's more of a question really. It's how many times do you think Nicholas Cage has been married? Oo. Does he strike you as someone that marries a lot or not? Three. You think he's been do you think he's currently married and on married to his third? I don't know. No, but I know he's been married at least once or twice. I know he's in he's got divorces under his belt. I know that. Yeah, definitely. He's um he's currently on his fourth marriage.
Fourth? Okay. It wasn't far off. Pretty close. Um I beg your pardon. He's currently on his fifth marriage. Fifth? Yeah, I misread my notes. Yeah, he's currently on his fifth uh fifth marriage. His four his fourth marriage actually just lasted four days. So that's that was uh Erica Quicki. Oh, Erica Quick. Co Kick Kiki. Just making noises at this point. Married to Patricia Rocket. Yeah. Uh, who was his first wife? Um, Lisa Marie Preszley. Knew about that one.
I didn't know about any either of those to be honest. Um, but yeah, fifth fifth. Five times been married. And I'm not at all surprised by that. He's either a moron or a hopeless romantic. I think he's probably I mean, we watched Vampires Kiss. I think he's probably a hopeless romantic. But insane obviously so you got to live with that. I love watching his movies but you No, you wouldn't want to be around it 247. You couldn't share a flat of Nicholas Cage, could you? No,
that should be a reality TV show. Share share f*** off Mr. Beast. Share a challenge flat with Nicholas Cage. Yeah. Live off cockroaches is one of the reasons you like this film because it starts with the death of a child. Uh yeah, that could be a fact. It helps the carousel sniper scene. Yeah. Yeah. Is that That's the first thing we see, isn't it?
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, it's the carousel. It's the speed up, slow down, spinny carousel time. Nicholas Cage with a mustache and a lemonade. Cool. Lemonade drink beverage and a sniper rifle. Two things that go together. Yeah. Yeah. And then he shoots um Sean Archer through the chest and and gets his kids. I think something I was unclear on was whether or not he was attempting to shoot the kid initially. No, he wasn't. So, the the child was just collap damage.
Yeah, it was an accident and and Archer should just get over it. Yeah, it's been ages. Misery guts this entire movie. He's a proper downer, is he, Sean Archer? Even his wife is over it. Even if his his wife is like, "Look, kid's been dead ages. Shut up." I know we're joking. Obviously, this is uh we shouldn't even have to. We don't need Yes, we don't we don't endorse the deaths of children. Obviously, no one ever needs to say that.
Well, you you say that, but people get very offended. these days. I don't care. Um, interestingly, that first scene was the only thing that the MPAA actually required cuts. Okay. What did they cut out of it then? Honestly, I'm not I'm not sure, but I think perhaps the um the the original assassination scene was a bit more explicit. That's what I mean. Like, are we seeing like kids brains all over John Travolta's chin? Maybe. Cuz I'd like to see that. There's enough of it. It's
the one thing that could have earned us another half a star. That's a joke. There are no more stars to give. Maximum star movie. Yeah. You don't The thing about this movie is you don't get a lot of Nicholas Cage being the villain. No. Well, he originally turned the role down because he didn't want to play the villain. Oh, really? Yeah. Which is curious cuz he seems to be having a blast. Yeah. I'm so glad that he did it.
Maybe it was just because coming off The Rock, he's just starting to get into that action good guy thing. Obviously Con we mentioned as well. But I think he's a really good I think he's probably more enjoyable as a villain than he is even a I look I think some of the best sort of good versus evil movies or stories I think generally the villains are more interesting. Yeah. In almost every case. That's fair. That's fair.
And when you cast somebody like Nicholas Cage, of course he's going to be a stellar villain. Yeah. But yeah, he did he didn't initially want to do it because um he didn't want that role. But when he when it was explained to him that actually he would be the good guy most of the time he was like, "Yeah, all right then." Yeah. Well, actually, what we haven't told you yet, Nicholas Cage, is that you're going to be swapping faces with Travolta and he's like, "I'm in." Yeah, I'm sold.
Yeah. I love Saturday Night Fever. Um, Look Who's Talking is my second favorite movie. I said nobody ever. That's the first time that's ever been said. Um, I I love all that Nicholas Cage villain stuff at the start of the movie. It's very fun and just over the top and exactly what you want out of a villain. villainous Nicholas Cage performance is great. The the priest stuff where he's wobbling in his head about Oh, yeah.
And um obviously a lot of his stuff is going to be improvised or exaggerated and takes inspiration from many different areas as we've spoken about. Yeah, I sort of I made the assumption that most of that stuff was maybe his decisions rather than the direction, but who knows?
And it's it's it's a um I would like to have seen more of him in a role. But it is a longass movie and it's pretty perfect. But maybe if I had one gripe, it might have been like I wouldn't have liked another 10 minutes of the cat and mouse. Maybe just to really like
almost like in a Fury Road sort of way like you get halfway through the movie and then we just double back on ourselves. It would have been nice to have half a movie maybe where Arch is going after Troy and you're not sure and you think, "Oh, this is going to lead up to a final battle scene or whatever and then in the middle of the movie they swap faces." You're like, "What the f***. And then it just completely reverses. So, you think the the actual face off was done too soon into the movie?
I think so. But then again, like it's you couldn't do it now because it would be spoiled immediately. But but back then you might have gotten away with that at least to some degree. Could make for a very confusing trailer.
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Hard harder to market for sure. And they definitely made a decision cuz obviously they called it Face Off. And I think half the people that went to see it probably thought it was a Mighty Duck sequel. Interestingly, the studio wanted uh John Woo to drop the slash between face and off, but he stuck to his guns and said, "No, we have to have that there because he didn't want people thinking it was a movie about hockey."
Right. So, that was um Yeah, there was like a a calculated decision to distance themselves from the Mighty Ducks. Yeah. I mean, and and other I'm sure they're all ice hockey movies. I just can't think of any right now. Oh, Goon, but that wouldn't have been out yet. Yeah. Yeah. Goon. That is the other one, isn't it? There's bound to be others, I think. Yeah, there's got to be more, right? Yeah, it's not a genre of movie that I pay that much attention to, to be honest.
No, the rest are probably Canadian, but yeah, my one complaint is maybe more villainous uh Nicholas Cage, but having said that, I do enjoy John Travolta as the villain in this. I know it's Yeah, a lot of people don't and I know you I don't particularly love John Travolta. I've got no undying love for him, but I think he's great in this. I think he's he's per the perfect person to swap faces. Nicholas Cage in this. I can't think of anyone else that could have done this.
Do you want to know who was considered? Yeah, I've heard this, but go on. I've heard some. I wonder if we've got the same. Maybe. I'm sure you've heard most of them. So, I mean, the main two that seem to be We seem to say this a lot, but Arie and Sly were considered. Yes. Why is it always Annie and Sly? Oh, because it's an action movie in the 80s or 90s, and when you're casting that, it's always Anie or Sly.
That would have been terrible. How? How? How the f*** do those two people swap lives with nobody noticing? Yeah, it's it's already a reach to be like, "Oh yeah, Arnold Schwarzenegger, you're a supply teacher. Um, there's your desk. There's where you put your protein. Uh, like here's your brother, Danny DeVito." Yeah. And um, but yeah, to have him swap faces with with slime, I Don't I mean I would watch the s*** out of you. Yeah, of course you would. But it's a it's a bigger ask for the audience.
I can't see it being any good. No, not to this degree anyway. That's crazy. I I I want to be I do want to visit the reality where that has happened and I can watch it though. Well, some others were Bruce Willis and Alec Baldwin. Oh, I don't like that. You were so on board in the first half. I just I don't that feels was unusual to me. Yeah. Like Bruce Willis, I get it because he's the other action guy. Yeah. But An Baldwin. Yeah. Strange choice. I can't see him firing guns and stuff, you know.
Careful. I can't I can't I'm sorry. I feel almost feel bad about that. Um he's not really an action guy, is he? But when he I don't think he ever has been. No, I know he was the shadow and he did that car chase movie which I used to like, but um it's It's super out of left field. Yeah, I'm not a fan of that one. Don't like that combination too much. No. Who would you So, you seemed excited when I said Bruce Willis. So, who would you have paired him with? Martin Shaw.
Let's Let's go Buddy. It's not Buddy Cop, is it? Is Villain. The opposite of that. Yeah. No, I No, not M. Martin Shaw. That doesn't make any sense, does it? Um Um Um Let's test society's reaction to him swapping faces with like Will Smith or something. A uh I I don't love it. I don't love it. No. Again, there's a reality where that's happening. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. Who would you swap for for Bruce Willis? I don't know. Who would you have Bruce Willis swap faces with?
Honestly, I don't know. I'm I was trying to think of people that would have fit in that era. Like if Staithm had been around. Stathithm would have been one. Yeah. But but nobody else at that time. I don't know. Not Alec Baldwin. Definitely not. Um but some others. Yeah. Were um Jean Claude Vanam and Sigal obviously. Oh no. That would have been ass. That would that's the weirdest one yet. That would have been ass. Oh it would have been awful. Yeah. Um Denzel and Wesley Snipes.
That would be interesting. I kind of like that. Yeah. Denzel obviously acts the s*** out of stuff and Wesley Snipes is is one of the greatest at action. action stunts and doing karate stuff. I think the two of them would have been real interesting. Yeah, I can see that.
Um, and the last one that I found was uh Robert Dairo and Aluccino. Like there's no way you could have kept the tone the same with those two actors because I know they I know they've both done less serious movies in their time, but I think the reason this works is because it doesn't take itself seriously for even one second.
Yeah, it's it you're right. It just it wears it hearts on it and it sleeve. It's like this is f****** insane and nuts. Here's some gold guns. We're doing double guns flying through the air. There's some birds cuz it's a John. Oh, by the way, they've got magnetic boots on like Yeah. Which incidentally were the Goomba boots from Super Mario Brothers. Were they? I can't believe you didn't know that. Goomba. Oh no. Now I want to watch Super Mario Brothers. I did not know that. That's fascinating.
I thought you'd enjoy that. Uh. Oh, great. What you got any others other um pairings? Um, no, that's it. I've got one that you didn't mention. I thought you might, but I found um Harrison Ford and Michael Douglas. Oh, didn't Michael Douglas was he a producer? Yeah, I I and that's probably why he was attached. I did see his name Michael Douglas and I meant to look up is that Michael Douglas. Michael Douglas and Harrison Ford.
Okay. I don't hate that, but it wouldn't have been the same. Again, tonally it would have been a very different movie. I can't see Harrison Ford in a John Woo movie, period. Like that doesn't fit to me. He's more like John Woo is popcorn garbage entertainment, isn't he? But he's the best at it. Mhm. And Harrison Ford is more popcorn but prestigious like you know. Yeah. Your whole family is going to love this. The fugitive movie like something something
witness. does. Yeah, I do get the impression he he just takes himself a bit more seriously perhaps. Yeah, maybe. I I can I would like to see his reaction to reading this script actually. That would be a fun thing to watch. Um there's there is one more not a pairing but apparently um is it Pollock Pock Niveler? I've never had my boy. I know you love him. I know you love that that character, but um Mark Wahberg turned it down. Good. Yes, I know. Oh. That would have been a stench on this movie.
That would have been horrendous. Yeah, I hate that. I'm so glad he turned it down that it was Alessandro Nivea. That might be part of the reason why I like Alessandro Nivea so much is that he's in this movie probably. It's between that and Gaul. Yeah, I know how much you love Gal. You never shut up about Gal. I love Gal. I do. And then he stole that egg in Jurassic Park for me and I was like, "Nah, mate. Can't do that.
Gone too far." Unless So, we talked about the possibles. Let's talk about the actuals. Yeah. So, let's do that. Is this is this maybe like the definitive Nicholas Cage and John Travolta performance? What's you know, independently of each other? You think it's the the the best Travolta? It's the best Cage potentially. I think it without question it's the best Travolta. I mean, what is second place? Battlefield. Battlefield. I'm going to wear some tall boots. And uh we'll get to that.
Oh no. Yeah. Oh yes. Oh no. Um is it the best cage? I know. There's a lot to choose from. The the the first 20 minutes might be my favorite cage. Yeah. When I say definitive, I just mean Nicholas Cage is one of those actors, and this is something that is going to come up time and time again this season, that when he's in a role, it's so f****** hard to imagine anyone else in that same role. to the point where it feels like the roles have been written for him. He makes them so specifically his.
It's so He always brings such a unique energy to a role. Yeah, it's bizarre.
You're so right. And it's you can never whenever you think about a recast, you're never like who could play Nicholas Cage's character. I put him in if I watch a movie that had maybe a good premise but the some performances were a bit flat. My go-to is always like uh I I think um we spoke about a couple of weeks ago I I think maybe Vampire's Kiss might be the definitive Nicholas Cage performance on the basis that it's full Cage throughout,
but I think the first Yeah, the first act of this movie is probably some of my favorite. What's What's the consensus on on Cage now? Cuz he was a bit of a joke for a while, which I think was unfair, but he did do some crap movies. He still does some crap movies. He seems to be just working consistently and never never seems to slow down. His quality has definitely improved the last 5 years. is yes, we're not doing a left behind anymore.
But I think that sort of answers the question for you. I think maybe the general consensus has improved to the point where he's just consistently being offered better scripts now because people think so highly of him. Yeah. So, as far as audiences go, I think he's definitely clawed back some of the well, all of the respect that he had when he started out.
I think it's fully deserved. I I think it was it's a shame that he became a bit of a joke and a meme for a while. I get it because he is over the top and weird and pretentious, but so what, man? And like he's swinging for the fences and he's always got a reason. He's never just going, I'm just going to be weird for the sake of being weird. He's like, no, actually I really love German expressionism. This is like like really well thought out and he's a nerd of cinema. Yeah.
And you got to love that. Yes, he's an epo baby, but who isn't? And I think he's just great. And it's he is, but he's sort of made the conscious decision to sort of distance himself from that a little bit as well with the name change and like He's not I don't know. And obviously his early works he would have gotten opportunities other people wouldn't have got, I'm sure.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But I think he's he's obviously talented. It's not just that he's been handed everything on a silver platter and he's coasting. Yeah. It's interesting where he is in his career at this point in Face Off because he's got he's obviously done the um the Cohen Brothers stuff. He's done uh Vampires Kiss uh and in the ' 90s, you know, he's done things like Leaving Las Vegas, which I've not seen actually. Okay. And but he won the award for that, didn't he? Best of all time. Yeah.
A really important thing when I get the little statue. Oh, thanks. Bye. Um, but he's getting into this stage in the '9s where he's becoming a bit of an action star. And I don't know if many people saw that coming. No, probably not. Probably not. Like for me, it's The Rock is probably the first Nicholas Cage movie I ever saw. I think. Okay. There's loads of his earlier stuff that I haven't seen and I will get to. I actually ly watch watched Red Rock West uh last year. Yeah.
It was on at the Prince Charles um for for a mystery movie marathon and that was all right. But there was it was it was there was a bit of Cage Spice in that. So that was kind of fun to watch. But he's definitely entered his action era in this and it's my favorite Nicholas Cage era because it's the action and he's done the Rock and Coner face off all in a row and then he gets to things like Gone in 60 Seconds which I love.
Uh and he's doing the sort of more the family orientated action after that when he's going into the he steals the national treasure he steals the national treasure and yeah they're they're all right those they're perfectly entertaining it's he's kind of done everything he has done everything and but I find it I don't know if people would have predicted that he would have been an action star in the ' 90s and I don't know if I was familiar with him that I would have either
or that he would have or that his career would have been so astronomical like he he's probably one of the most well-known name in the industry at this point. He's probably one of the most recognizable faces on the planet. Yeah. It's Ronald McDonald and then Nicholas Cage, and he's done everything like like you say, he's now doing more sort of horror and and that sort of thing, which I know he's a big fan of, but really interesting choices like Dream Scenario that we recently covered.
Yes. There's a lot of stuff that he just doesn't really do one genre, but he has little stints where he'll do a few of a genre like where we are now, the action or later on the horror. horror stuff. Um, he did a western recently, didn't he? He did a Shraider movie with William Defoe, which I w watched a little while ago. Did a movie with um, uh, your mate, uh, Elijah Wood called The Trust, which was a pretty interesting movie. Okay. Haven't seen that one.
He's done so much stuff. Uh, but yeah, I think Face Off is is is peak cage for me. In 1997 is probably I was like this guy cuz he's a bit he's a bit safer in in The Rock. He's a bit he's a very unique character and it's interesting to watch, but he's it's it's Nicholas Cade at like a five. Yeah. Whereas this is almost full 10. Yeah. Yeah. And and I don't know who I would have put opposite him other than John Travolta. I I can't think of anyone else that could have done that.
No. But as much as I dislike John, I can't even say his goddamn name. G Travolta. Gondol. As much as I dislike the man, I He is good. in this. Yeah, I will. He's He's a lot. I'll reluctantly concede that point. Um I can see I could see if it gets on your nerves, gets on your wick. I can understand that cuz it's a lot. But I think that's what this movie is though. This movie is just a lot. That's what they could have called it if they hadn't called it face off.
I think the biggest hurdle that I have is I really dislike his face. Yeah. And you see you see it a lot. You're in luck. I'm not cuz they put it on someone. else. They ruin both people by associating troll with both of them. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't I I don't have an answer to that question. I can't think of one person who would have done better. No, he's enormous.
I love the the fact in this there's that line that's like, "Oh, the height difference is negligible." Yeah, there's a good 2 in between them. I think you're right. I think they're pretty uh different heights in real life and they have wildly different teeth. teeth. They didn't swap the teeth. This His wife didn't even notice that his smile had changed. Well, she didn't notice that his dick had changed either. That's a really good point. Did they swap dicks?
Did they swap dick? They should have called it dick swap. Dick off. Dick. Wingard. Nobody's confusing that with a hockey movie. Oh, wingard. If you're listening, there's your idea. Get on it. Yeah. This is Face Off, too. We've written it for you. Get a move on.
Yeah. loads of stuff that that the science doesn't allow for in this movie. Like it there's there's just no point even thinking about it. It's almost just like I remember very distinctly the first time I watched it as well was just like what the they're literally I didn't know that they were literally going to do that.
All I can say is if if the police have money, they've got the the disposable income to spend on experimental surgeries that only a couple of people in the world know how to do that's super hush horsh nobody else knows about I agree defund the police that's too much money they don't need it it's a it's a very elaborate weird operation that's going on here it's all in secret as well but they take they have the pills so that they recover super fast yeah that's right I forgot about that
that's the thing I hated the most I was like there's no swelling like you can't even submerge a tattoo in water for weeks after having it done but he's just like just bombing around doing action stunts and like I don't know it's fine cuz of the pills. Yeah. Yeah. Those pills they've explained it in movies pills always work immediately don't they as well. Yeah.
But this was meant to be a proper like full on I would say describe this movie as a sci-fi certainly but it's um it was meant to be a full-on sci-fi set in the future and stuff I think with all like other sci-fi tech and stuff which is why the the prison boots are a thing. I think that's sort of that makes so much more sense now. Yeah. A hangover from um from from the original idea I think. Right. But um what was the choice? Why the choice to to do away with that then?
I have no idea. I I I haven't got any clue. Maybe it was John Woo. Maybe it was Cage someone from the cast of the writers. I I got no idea. But I I I don't know. I would scare. Yeah, go for it. I don't care. I mean, this film is sci-fi.
But that's what I mean. Like it's it's sort of they've they've tried to sort of ground it, but it's a John Woo movie from the start, so like it's already going to be ridiculous. Then you add on this element to it and it's just like and but to make this movie as good as they made it is kind of I don't know again like who else you would get to direct this. It's it's an insane concept but for for some reason just absolutely has been nailed and works because of the absurdity of the action and the absurdity of the idea
on paper you're like this is going to be terrible. I think it wasn't until the 2000s that a successful face transplant had even been attempted. I didn't know it had even happened so far. Yeah, there's a So, there's a guy on TikTok. The only reason I know I mean because I'm not an idiot, I already know that the medical viability of what they do in the film is bollocks. Oh, certainly.
But and the fact that they cut their hair whilst doing the surgery, that cannot be best practice. No. In the medical field, it's not the correct sequence of events, is it? No. No. I know you, you know, you're short of time or whatever, but seriously. Um, but yeah, so there's a guy on TikTok whose partner posts videos and um he was in some sort of accident, had a full-on face transplant, and even sort of a year plus later, his face is still so swollen. Yeah, it would be.
He doesn't look like a person. Yeah. Um so, it's so far out there that this you have to sort of work on the assumption that this is pure sci-fi to get anywhere with it. I think it's it's probably even more fantasy than it is sci-fi, like to be honest with you. But it's f****** fun and it works. And a lot of it that I think is down to the cage's performance. And I do love that scene when they're actually swapping the faces and you've got like the the wax models or whatever they are on the tables.
I I wish we'd seen more of like the gooness. Do you? Yeah. I think we got just the right amount of gooness because you get the really nice shot where you see the reflection in in columns uh glasses. Dr. Face swap. Apparently that reflection shot is a bit of a a John Woo hallmark. Right. Okay. That's something he tends to do a lot. Yeah. Okay.
But yeah, I do I do question question the the decision when they they shot down the decision to evacuate LA immediately. They were like, "We can't we can't evacuate LA on the the vague threat of a bomb." No, what we what we'll do instead is this really experimental, labor intensive, expensive surgery. Yeah, it makes way more sense. I think it'd be quite a bit cheaper to evacuate. That's just me.
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. But I do um I But I I like that as well where get to the point where they swap faces and then you get the maybe if I won't one criticism it does sort of dip a little bit in the middle but you get that part where Cage who is now Arch. This is going to be confusing. Um Cage who is now Travolta in the prison with Thomas Jane. Oh yeah. Thomas Jane with glasses on. Yeah. And Carol Lynch. Oh John Carol Lynch invitation. Is he invitation?
He is. Yeah. Um yeah. So you got get that part and at that I'm really sort of enjoying getting into um John Travolta playing the villain now and he's kind of changed his tactics because they built a bomb, put it in Hela, as you said, the biblical plague that Hel deserves.
Uh and his plan now is to be like some sort of hero super FBI agent or whatever and disarm the bomb. And I don't really understand what his plan is after that cuz the second he's like, "Oh yeah, I know the password for the bomb," his boss boss is like, "Did you put that bomb there? cuz he didn't seem to know too much. So, he didn't for someone who's meant to be like a villainous genius, he didn't think that far ahead. Oh, he's unhinged. But I enjoy it, though.
And he's on god knows how many substances at all times as well. Yeah. Whatever those yellow and blue pills were and whatever is in his like kit. He's he's parap drugs paraphernalia. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. He's got guns and joints in there and pills and I'm English so guns scare the s***. s*** out of me. It's not part of our culture. Any Americans listening to this, I don't understand the obsession with guns, I find them very frightening. However, Nicholas Cage's guns in this movie cool as f***.
Gold as f***. They're closer to rocket launchers than they are guns. Enormous. Um, but again, just absurd. Stupid. Oh, yeah. But it works. Yeah. Cuz he's he's such a an ostentatious villain that it makes sense he would have these ostentatious weapons. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so Cage, who is now Travolta. Yes. You look so confused. Look, we know where we are now. I'm just going to refer to it him as uh as as we'll just say like Archer and Troy if that's easier.
But is it Archer or Troyer? Because everyone thinks it's Troy, but it's actually a good point. That's a good point. Nicholas Cage is in the prison with Thomas Jane and um Aleandro Nivea and uh he says um like Nivea's like what's what's up here? He sort of senses something something's off, doesn't he? And he says, "What's my the name of my drugs? What what are the drugs that I take?" And he says, "Vivex." I don't know what Vivex is. I meant to look it up and I didn't.
I don't Maybe it's something they made up. Yeah, maybe. It sounds legit, but they could have made it up. Uh, but I I remember thinking, I wonder what this medication is meant to be for, cuz what what's wrong with Pock Troy? Is that an okay question to ask? I don't know. He does like making bombs, but he can't tie his own shoelaces. What is Pock Troy? Are you trying to say he's autistic? Is that what you mean?
I don't know. I'm asking what he's what if there was a creative choice. Is it based on anything? Or was he just being a I don't know. An unusual guy. Well, so Aleandro Nolo Niveo. Nive. Nivea. Nivea. Oh my god, I'm butchering everybody's names today. Pock Troy. Pock Troy. So Aleandro Nivea was watching a documentary about Robert Crumb whilst making this movie the the um the John Candy movie the docu a documentary called Crumb, right? Don't get smart with me.
So So he decided to um base his character in this movie on Robert Crom's brother and basically took all the mannerisms and the like the the cadence of speech and stuff from that the real life guy. Okay, so that's the extent of that. Okay, it's a good job he wasn't wasn't watching like a Gilbert Gotfried movie at the time. It could have turned out very differently caster or a Bobcat Gold Mr. Tro.
Uh yeah, but I I when he asked him what his medication was, it did occur to me. I thought, well, what's meant to be the deal here? And then I thought, I wonder if like Caster Troy has just made up that he's got an illness just to try and control him somehow. Maybe.
I thought that was a fun thing to think about. But he gets out, doesn't he? He gets out. M and um Travolta is like come in let's enjoy being good guys now and she's like all right yeah sweet get me a tongue sandwich so talking about the brothers at this point not the not those brothers the the Troy brothers
Caster and Pock this is one of the things that makes me appreciate this film a little bit more than I might otherwise and that's that some thought has gone into stuff like that it's not just a crappy action movie like a lot of the decisions have been made for very specific reasons. And as soon as I sort of heard Pollocks, uh, Caster and Pollock, I was like, "Oh, okay." Like the Greek mythology. So, I did a bit of digging. Um, Caster and Pollock were twins. I believe Zeus's sons. One of them, oh, no, wait, no. One of them, his father was Zeus, so he was immortal. The other one, his father was human, so he was human.
So, they were half brothers. half brothers, right? Like the Mitchell brothers, but with decidedly more hair. That's the only difference. Um, but and in the story, Zeus sort of took pity on them, so gave the other one half of his mortality, immortality rather, because they couldn't bear to be separated by death, right? Which sort of kind of lends it a bit more weight. Yeah. When he gets upset at his brother's death and stuff. Um,
well, it's definitely just the one person that he cares about. Yeah. Isn't it? And but also um Castro and Pollocks represent Gemini in the zodiac, right? And so obviously they uh the opposite is Sha Archer. Archer represents Sagittarius which is diametrically opposed to Gemini in the zodiac. Okay. So like there is some stuff going on. It's not just we're calling this guy this thing, Brian. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. No, I like that when all that sort of stuff is interesting. Obviously, you've got Eve, Adam. There's an Adam man and Eve in this movie. Yeah. Yeah. So, you've got all of that stuff. It's um and and obviously Danny Masterson. Oh, god. Danny Masterson jump scare playing a rapist, which is not too far from his wheelhouse. Yeah. But he does get kicked to the nuts, which was very satisfying to watch, I have to say. To watch that on repeat. Yeah. Just gif it.
But when once um is it is it Archer that or or John Travolta that um Nicholas Cage f****** hell. He doesn't he drop Pollock through the the roof light. Yes. Or something like that. And then uh Troy is obviously pissed at that. But that's when just after that gunfight in the in the house, which is probably my favorite part of this movie, I would say. I was going to ask you which of your which of the sequences are your favorite?
The storming of the apartment building for sure where you've got um caveets caveet cvetes and Um, Gina Gan and that's and their weird sibling kiss. They're brother and sister. Don't do that. And don't do that in this movie. What? That's just making me go why you like movies with incest in too.
Yeah, clearly. Uh, but but that's that's the point where Nicholas Cage as Sean Archer is kind of starting to enjoy the life a little bit. And what's interesting as well is that you can see that as silly as this film is, like obviously he's his dead son, he spends the whole movie crying about it. Oh, get over it. Um, but he's I guess with the drugs and literally putting on someone else's face, he's kind of forget like learning how to not think about that all the time. And he's probably like a bit relieved by that and starting to enjoy it a bit.
Maybe there's an autistic reading of this film where it's actually about masking. Yeah. And it's they literally mask each other. Yeah. I like that. Um, but yeah, that's definitely my favorite sequence I think is that siege on that and you get that beautiful and iconic shot where they're back to back of course and they face the mirror which is just like I don't know. It's it's a genius thought.
It's things like that that make this movie work so well. I think well like you said though, John Woo's the guy for for that sort of action, isn't he? Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like there was way more slow motion in Hardboiled than there was in this one, but I could be wrong. Yeah,
there I remember and in towards the end of Hardboiled, you've got that corridor scene where the the two of them are there's gunfight and it's a really slow like they're just stepping and it's slow motion. Yeah, it's great. It's really well done. And there is some of that here, but it's not I don't I feel like it's not to the same extent. It's more like
when Cage whips his coat and you see the guns and it sort of the coat flows through the air in slow motion. It's just little shots like that. Very cool. It's very stylized. Yeah. And everybody takes the piss about the doves and stuff and obviously they are present here. Yeah, of course. It wouldn't be a would be a Woo movie without a dove. But the first time some birds appear and I went, "Oh, look doves." And you went, "No, they're pigeons, darling."
No, I wrote that down. You said, "Are you said, "Are they doves or pigeons?" And I said, "That's a seagull." Oh, right. And then there are actual doves. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's so It's just birds. in general he's a fan of. Yeah, must be. Yeah. What's your favorite uh favorite scene part or part of this movie? Do is it the action stuff? Is it the the the Yeah, I mean that look, we've talked about this before in other shows.
I've considered myself a fan of action movies for a while, but I'm starting the more the more I watch of them, the more I'm learning that actually I favor martial arts more than straight action because explosions don't do a lot. for me. And there are quite a few explosions in this movie. Yeah, there's f****** loads of them. Um, the plane stuff was pretty cool at the start and they that was an actual plane, you know, they did that for real.
Yeah. And they filmed it from 13 different angles because they were genuinely trashing a plane and couldn't do it again. You've got one chance. Yeah. So, that was pretty impressive. Yeah. Also, the boat stuff at the end because all of that was filmed for real as well. It's so extra, isn't it? Yeah. It's like we've just had a shoot out at the funeral place and now we're doing a boat chase. Why not? Yeah.
Um Oh, this boat's going through another boat. What the hell? Are they that poorly constructed? Yeah, that one's just made out of fiberglass. Yeah, both saws. Um but apparently that the boat chase thing was um a recycled idea from Hard Target. Oh, but I'm guessing they didn't have the bud for it in Probably not. No. Yeah, but I really like the climax of that movie, though. Yeah, it's funny. The first show we ever did being hardboiled and I hadn't seen Hard Target at that point. Now I have.
We rectified that quite promptly. We did. Yes. Didn't you love seeing Wolfford Brimley? I always do. Well, not anymore. God bless him. Um but yeah, I I really enjoyed that stuff. I think because it's so extra, you've just got to forget about it and you like there's no I can understand if this film is not for you, it's not for you. I And I get it cuz it's f****** absurd, but like You've just got to go, "All right, just forget everything and just enjoy it." Yeah.
And you can do I can do that. I I think I think I can mostly do that with action. I can just definitely do that. I mean, it sort of establishes its world pretty early on. Yeah. Um you're you're so right. So, I think it's easy to just go along for the ride. And actually, going back to what you said earlier, I think maybe if it was a film of two halves and it was sort of like an hour of the cat and mouse stuff, then the actual face swap,
and then the second half. I think maybe if you'd been in this for an hour, maybe the face swap stuff would have been harder to swallow. Yeah, that's fair. It definitely sets out its world early. You're right. And it sort of the tone remains consistent throughout. So, you're you're right. If it's sort of a bit more grounded at the start, all of a sudden they're like, "What the Yeah,
what's going on now? Yeah, you're you are You're right. It was probably the right move. I just I feel I can't help but want that kind of version of it. I just I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. I think make it three hours. I don't give a f***. Good God. I don't know about that. Um I I do agree with you, but I think maybe maybe there was some consideration of that in the the decision- making. Um
I'll I'll be honest and say that I think the length of the movie is one of the things I don't like. I think it's maybe a bit too long. I think this version of it Yeah, I think you're right. I think it Definitely for me in the middle there when the the prison's happening and when the kind of the family dynamic with Shan Archer. Oh, the stuff with the daughter.
That's I mean, you just don't want to be thinking about that in this movie because this is such a popcorn stupid entertainment movie. You're like that this is feels weirdly dark and unnecessary. The daughter character didn't need to be in it at all. No. Um waste of time. And and also I don't like how a lot of that was approached as well, like the the weirdness when Travolta was actually Caster Troy. Yes,
that stuff was gross. And like I know it's supposed to be I I get what they were going for. Um and some just some of the character choices were laughable. I think with Dom Dominique Swain kind of made a name for herself in the the '9s and then sort of disappeared. But the first time we see her, she's wearing Well, she she looks a little bit like somebody's tried to draw Jean Simmons from memory. It was the kid from Role Models.
Yeah. And they're like, "Oh, the kids at school were making fun of her." Good. They should looked at state. Yeah. It would be a good life lesson. Well, you see, it's very clever really cuz it's all part of the narrative because he says, "Who you supposed to be now?" And really the question is, who is he supposed to be? No, I know. And I understand it. But that felt like dead weight to me.
I couldn't agree more. I think it would have been way more interesting. Like you see the family at the start. That's part of the the Shan Archer character. Shaw, that's part of his narrative, right? The dead kid that you do you do identify each other's family by rubbing their their hands on their faces. Oh god, I forgot I forgot all about that.
They that's they have to do that. That's how they greet each other every time. What do they do you think like when they're walking just from room to room? They have to they do that every time. Yeah. They brush each other's faces all the time. They just it's part of the family regardless of the task at hand as well. Yeah. In the middle of cooking.
Yeah. And then when you procure uh the child of of dead criminals at the end of the movie, you introduce them to the face thing and then they become f*** part of the face thing immediately. Yeah. That that kid should not have I don't know how that kid got through the foster system into that family. They're like, "You did what? You swapped faces with Nicholas Cage. There's no way he's coming to live with you. That is not a safe. That's way too weird."
Yeah. We at Child Protective Services do not sanction this. Yeah. Um I do I do you know what? We haven't even mentioned Joan Allen. I just want to give a quick shout out to Joan Allen. Go for it. Particular particularly because and you'll know this is a gripe of mine. Um the studio always it's always the f****** studio notes, isn't it? The studio were pushing for a younger actress. Yeah, obviously. And John Woo stood his ground because he really wanted Joan Allen,
but she's ancient. She was 37 years old. I know, right? It's I hate it so much. Yeah. Um but they wanted her to be a stepmom rather than an actual mom. They wanted a younger stepmom. Yeah. Okay. I can see the step angle that would maybe introduce an interesting dynamic. Maybe she didn't care as much about the dead kid. I don't know. Um but I So to me the impression is that they just wanted a younger woman.
So it would have had to have been a stepmom because she wouldn't have been old enough to be a bi biological parent to the teenager. I understand. Yeah. I think that Yeah, I think they it was the right move to cast Joan in this. I think she's good. She's not in it a lot, but she is a you know, she's a nurse and she has to do the nurse thing and get the blood out at the end. So, she does have something to do.
Yeah. But it's uh going back to your to your point, I think um when Caster Troy as Sean Archer is integrating himself into the family, I would much rather have been seeing what he's doing at the FBI and maybe being a bit more calculated and seen some more nefarious stuff going on there. Like he could have introduced some terrorist mates or whatever and been like, "Yeah, they're good guys." And then they off doing stuff. I don't know. Just a bit more of that. Yeah, I know what you mean.
But much like the complaints that I had about last week's show. Um just just underuse of women in general. Yeah. I quite liked that the Margaret Cho character was included, but I did learn after the fact that it was supposed to be Cherry on Fat. Oh, really? Yeah. But he he had a different commitment, so he couldn't do it. She doesn't get a lot to do. No. No. But it Still nice to see like a female FBI agent or whatever.
For sure. For sure. Uh Gavin Bellson was was standout though, I think, wasn't he? Our friend Matt Ross. Yeah. I didn't know it was I we watched Silicon Valley. I watched it for the first time when you introduced me to it and uh I'd seen this a million times but didn't didn't know he played Gavin Bellson because that's all I see him as now. Whenever I see him in like American Psycho and now this, I'm like it's just Gavin Bellson. Yeah.
And it's his own fault for just being so f****** perfect. in that show. Um, but he was he was he was good in this and he he he gets a gets a bullet in the brain. Gets two bullets in this movie. He does. Yeah. Yeah. And also gets a new ear. I think John We might have invented 3D printing, you know. Yeah. That was creepy. Yeah. Predicted a future. Yeah. Just before we start winding the show down,
I want to ask you, do you know a very specific connection between the three films in C's action trilogy. One of which was last week. One of which we've already covered. A connection between the three. A specific connection involving a car between the three movies between Conair, the Rock, and Face Off. And Face Off. It's not a Volvo. It is a Volvo. Yes. Is it a beige Volvo? It is a beige Volvo. I did not know that. There is. Yes. So, there's um there's a connecting thread in beige Volvos.
Oh. Safest car in the world. world apparently. Yeah. So, obviously um he steals a beige Volvo in this one. Does he? Oh, well, there's a Oh, when he gets out the um the clink. Yeah, of course. Yeah. In The Rock, his character says that he drives a beige Volvo. Beige Volvo. I believe that's what Shan Connory says. Yes. And in Conair, he drops the body of Pinball from the plane and it lands on a beige Volvo. Holy s***. And it's Dave Chappelle. Yeah. So, Double Win.
Um, that's fascinating. I had no idea this is Beige Volvo trilogy. Yes. What we when when we put this episode out, we should package the three episodes together as the Beige Volvo trilogy. Absolutely should. In the same way that Edgar Ride did the Cornetto trilogy. This is the Beige Volvo trilogy. That's genius. I I I love that. So, between Simon West, John Woo, and Michael Bay, they created the Beige Volvo trilogy. Apparently, a box set. Like you get a little toy beige Volvo in it.
Merch. Yeah. Yeah. You get a little t-shirt with it with a beige Volvo on it and obviously a bumper sticker that says my other ride is a beige Volvo. Right. Get on the blower to Universal. We need to speak to Done. Love it. So, what what do you um did you I think get the distinct impression that you probably enjoyed this more than The Rock. Yeah, much more. Much more. Okay. And is Is that because it's just like all the things we've spoken about just cuz it's like crazy and it doesn't care?
I think so. Yeah. Do you do would you say that you enjoy John Woo movies more than Michael Bay movies in general? Oh, 100%. That was basically going to be one of my ultimate takeaways from this these last two shows. I'm definitely not a Michael Bay person, but I think I am a John Woo person. It's just undeniable. Like it's like we've said all the way through and he knows what he's doing.
Mhm. and he's the best at it. It's It's weird that like lately you get films I don't know last the newest most recent John movie I've seen actually it's been put out a couple that I've not seen that was it Silent Night. Silent Night. Yeah. Haven't seen that. That was recent. That got shat on a bit. So I'm too fussed about it. Paycheck which was didn't feel much like a John movie if I remember rightly. But he when he does the action he's the best. Yeah.
He's just the absolute best at that slow motion and just making things look cool. Like the banister slide in hardboiled like some of the most iconic action stuff I think you've ever seen come came from his brain. And um yeah, I can absolutely understand if you prefer him to Michael Bay. I think I do. Do you? Yeah, I think so. I think Bay is is good at what he does, but I feel like a lot of what he did he nick from from John Woo.
Yeah, potentially. Potentially. And also just a lot less misogyny in John Woo movies. So that's a good way to win me over. I hope so. Yeah. Um But yeah, I I really enjoy Face Off. I think this is only the second time I've ever seen it. That's crazy. I know. But it all came flooding back to me. I've seen I've seen it more than twice the first time I rented it. I thought you were going to say I've seen it more than twice this week.
No, I haven't seen it in a while actually. It been a good four or five years, I think, since I've last watched it. But yeah, I've seen it so many times. I don't even So this is this is something you return to frequently.
Yeah. I just it's fun and stupid and I just put it on. I don't even have to pay attention. It's one of those movies that I've seen so many times and I have a few of those like Died with a Vengeance, Bad Boys, Face Off, all of that stuff. I've seen so much The Rock. I just smash it on in the background. Iron the shirts because I'm always ironing my shirts. It's what you're known for. Yeah, that's that's my middle name. The guy that irons shirts. It's a bit unwieldy.
Yeah. Cheers, Mom. Um how many jobs I've not gotten cuz my middle name is so weird. Oh, probably loads. Yeah, I would say that's the primary reason for knockbacks. It's a shame cuz if I get to the interview stage, they would notice that I've got a perfectly ironed shirt. Crisp shirt. Yeah. And I would get a job. Exactly. It's their loss. What are we doing next week? Okay. So, teased it earlier. You did. Not Not particularly subtly. No. No. We've gone 96, 97, 98. Yeah.
And because we're going in chronological order, for this season is uh we're going with Snake Eyes next. I'm excited. I'm I have seen this once, which is I've only seen this once. Yeah. When it when it first came out and it will be the second Depal movie that we've covered.
Yeah. So, if if nothing else, there'll be loads to talk about with Depal and the craft of it and Cage. So, there should be a lot to dig into. I hope hopefully with that whether we like it or not remains to be seen, but should be interesting. I'm excited to find out.