264 Maria Bos, CEO Plug

Welcome to the Shipping Podcast, where I meet interesting maritime professionals. Sharing their passion for the shipping intimately. I am Hello Shipping Podcast listeners, and welcome to the show where we are shifting the perspective of the maritime industry one episode at a time. I attended my sixteenth Vista International AGM and Conference in Barcelona in late October. Yes, I have been a member of this organization for a long while.

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In this episode, you will meet a power woman working on shore power and vessel charging infrastructure. I hope you will enjoy my conversation with Maria Boss, the CEO of Plug. Everyone's not going to be able to do

Welcome to the shipping podcast. Could you please introduce yourself? Thank you so much, Lena. My name is Maria Bos and I am the CEO of a Norwegian company called Plug. And how did you end up in the shipping industry? That's actually a a very good question. I think if you've asked me maybe ten years ago, I would have laughed very much if someone told me that I would end up in shipping because I started my career in actually within banking and insurance.

And then almost 10 years ago now, I made a choice that I wanted to work with, let's say, some of the solutions to the greatest challenge that the world is facing right now, meaning all the emissions that we're that we're dealing with and the consequences of that. So I decided to apply for a job in a company called Ebony, which is one of the larger renewable companies here in Norway.

And uh was very lucky to get the job. And then uh Ebony is actually the owner of Plug. So to make a long story short. By working in the Even E Group, I got some new opportunities and then I ended up in in shipping, so to speak. So yeah, it's it's been uh Rather long but very nice ride. So how do you find the maritime industry, the shipping industry? I had some thoughts about the shipping industry before becoming a part of it, but it

uh I thought it was maybe like colder and and more just business, but I feel it's very open and very including. And uh there are lots of people that are very interested and wanting to understand more. So I think um I've been uh let's say positively surprised in a way. Uh and I feel very welcome into the shipping community. So it's it's been very nice.

Good. We get some good ratings from you then. So tell me a little bit more about Plug. What do you do? So as I said, Plug is owned by Ebony, that is a renewable company based on the west coast of Norway. And plug is sort of like the maritime part of Ebony. And what we do is that we both develop, build, operate, as well as invest in shore power and charging infrastructure for vessels. So that means that we we can help ports and partner with ports to make sure that.

They are able to build the infrastructure needed to enable zero emission port stays or to enable also fully electric vessels to have the charging that they need in order to operate. So we're like a technological and also financial partner of ports, basically. That's what we do.

And are ports interested in shore power? Yes, I think if you're at least if you're a large to medium sized port these days and not thinking about short power then you have a problem, I would say. So it's it's very much on the agenda of most sports and I think there are lots of And maybe to put that way, the this they are facing the same challenges. It's you know, how how do we do this? What is it? What's the right infrastructure? They have lots of questions and

hopefully our value proposition could be relevant and attractive to the parts. And then yeah, we feel it like like it is. Hmm. So are there ships that uh are calling the ports interested in shore power? I think it's important to divide the ships into different categories. Some segments are very mature, like in Norway, where we operate in six ports, I think Yeah, offshore vessels that are servicing in for instance the North Sea and in the oil and gas industry, they are very much mature.

In Bergen this year, I think we're looking at probably eighty to eighty five percent of the vessels connecting to shore power while in port. And also the cruise industry, partly driven by new regulations that is coming from twenty thirty, but also local regulations here in Norway is also very much mature in the in the shore power side. So This year maybe seventy at least above seventy, maybe seventy five percent of the cruise vessels will connect in the ports in Norway where we'll be operating.

But then we need to have all the all the other segments uh going as well and and uh that will take some time. But um yeah, I think it's moving in the right direction. So that's good. Good. Very good.

So what's the problem with the Getting all ports connecting with ships with shore power? There are I would say lots of challenges, but uh some some of them are possible to overcome and some of them are a bit more difficult. One of the main challenges is of course to have access to enough power, meaning great capacity, and to bring the power down on the key side where where we need it.

That can be a challenge, and uh sometimes it's a question about cost only, but some sometimes it's also actually a fact that it might not be possible in practice before maybe ten years or so, and then that's a real pro problem. And then also I think for some parts it a big investment and and to be able to to make that big investment, maybe they would have to prioritize that.

Uh instead of something else which is closer to the core of the port. So it's about making choices and and um might be difficult for them to do so. And then we still also struggle a little bit about with like what is the right thing to build, uh meaning both like competence on that side, but also standards. We have some international standards in shore power, but uh there are still

Still some work to be done for some uh some of the ship segments that also need shore power. So um It's a complex thing and I I very much respect that it's a complicated task for Port to sort of uh deal with this. There's work to be done still. So who is who is doing the standardisation work? Where do you meet with other Shore power companies. So the standardisation work is being done both on national level and also international level.

So in Norway we have some national committees that meet and discuss how the standard should should be and it's also the same way internationally. Unfortunately, and at least it's my understanding that it's it's very probably a good thing that you know everyone can uh take part in these committees. But it's it's also a fact that maybe It's not the best way of organizing something when you need to reach a consensus. So uh yeah, it takes time because if you have

both people that are producing plugs and producing technology and everyone is one just wants their technology to be the you know the chosen one, then it's really hard to reach a consensus. So

I don't have a solution for it, but I see that there is a challenge in that regard. So it it takes a lot of time, unfortunately. But uh we're rooting for the people that are working with this. And um I think my My one wish if and it we're soon reaching Christmas now, so I might be allowed to have a wish is that they also think about the cost, not just the the perfect technological solutions when they are considering standard.

Because it's important the cost both on the shore side but also on the vessel side. It sounds familiar. It sounds like something else we are all waiting for someone to decide something and everyone has to agree. Not mentioning any names, IMO. I think it's yeah.

Okay. So what about renewable? I mean is it a renewable energy is that you are pumping into the street? So I think just to talk a little bit about our perspective with regards to that I think Working with with shore power, our focus m is mainly that we are solving the local emission problem by doing so. We're reducing the NOx and SOC and also particles in the air from vessels that are in port. And we're also reducing vibration and noise, which is good.

But obviously we would like to have one hundred percent renewable energy source at the end of the grid, because then we will also save CO two, which is in a global perspective really, really im important. But I think we've sort of said that Uh someone else needs to solve the energy mix uh question we will do like the local parts and for the parts in Norway where we're operating, luckily the energy mix is uh ninety percent something green, so that's really, really good.

Uh in some other countries it's not not that green, but it's definitely moving in the right direction. But one option that we have, and that is also something we always do, is to buy guarantees of origin for the power that we're delivering to the vessel. And uh obviously know that, you know, you you still cannot m be sure that the energy that you're delivering is actually green, but it's the only way that we have today, you know, to be able to say to our customers that they're receiving

One hundred percent renewable energy. So That's the way it is now and I think yeah, we need to move in a greener direction globally in order to to be really renewable. But let's take one one step at the time and shore power definitely contributes in a good way. Yeah, I I agree with you.

You can't eat that elephant in one row. You have to put it into smaller pieces. Do you see any trends in in your business area? Wha what's hot right now, if I can if I can use that word term, empower? Right now, or not right now, but last maybe? year or so we've seen a b a big shift actually in the we've been having more and more inquiries regarding how high power charging for larger vessels, meaning

We have vessel owners that are looking to fully electrify their vessels and they need charging infrastructure to support. For instance, we have a couple of projects with bulk carrier. That are gonna be fully electric. They're gonna move from A to B and they need to charge maybe three times a day in order to still operate the same way that they do today, only fully electric.

meaning we will have to make a quite big investment on the infrastructure side in order to accommodate that. And well we're looking at maybe Yeah, an investment of um above ten million euro. for one one vessel. So it's um it's a big investment and maybe even more than that as well. We also recently received some economic support from the Norwegian state owned company eNOVA that supports zero emission initiatives like uh well all also for the shipping industry.

where we're gonna we are gonna build charging infrastructure and a vessel owner is gonna build two fully electric PSVs that is gonna operate in the very far north of Norway. So we have lots of projects like that now. So we're moving, I think Show power will still be like the backbone of zero emission ports, but we will also see more.

charging infrastructure, meaning not AC power but D C power from shore in order to enable fully electric vessels as well. And While we were previously talking about fully electric vessels, they would typically be rather small. But now we see like really, really big vessels that are also trying to operate fully electric, which is uh really, really great to see and and it's also really mo motivating to be part of a pioneering project. It's like that.

Maybe you need to explain AC and DC. It's not AC-DC, it's something else probably. Yeah. To not be too technical. Then if it's when when we have a ship alongside in port and we connect it to shore power. That is AC. Then we just connect it to the grid and and it's uh a little bit of conversion in order to make like the the the right voltage and so on to match the vessel, but it's a bit easier in that sense. When we have D C, that's when we need to charge a battery.

So so then it's like um when you need to do it like faster and you need more our more power, then then we need DC. So to put it very simplistically, then it's like sure power is A C. And char charging is DC. And then there are some other ways of doing it. But uh yeah, that's the easy way to do it. I'm sorry for uh putting so difficult questions. No worries, no worries. Okay.

So if you have a a sort of a look uh to the horizon, where do you see development? Where are people more interested and where are the innovation taking place? I think there are lots of regulation that is coming now. that is very much in favor of shore power and charging infrastructure, which is which is good. And especially in the EU, where in twenty thirty, you know, the biggest ports will have to have this inf infrastructure. the container vessels and the cruise vessels will have to connect.

in twenty thirty five, there's another type of ports coming and even more vessels that would have to connect. So lots of things are moving in the right direction with in that regard. It's a a difference between Europe in general and Norway, in that sense that in Norway we're we're not really I think prioritizing with regards to the regulations that are coming. We're we're just doing it because we think it's the right thing to do today.

Whereas I think ports in Europe are more like we need to prioritize container and cruise now and the rest will have to wait, you know, because that's the way it way it is. Obviously we're seeing China doing lots of things on this, which is to be expected. And I think in in general the good thing about shipping is that if you have a vessel that is

ready to connect, then it will, you know, it and it operates in a global perspective. Then it also is able to reduce emissions in other places, you know, so that's that's good. And we're seeing, for instance, lots of Norwegian vessels that have received economic support from the Norwegian government to be retrofitted. are now making an impact in the UK, for instance, because they are now plugging in over there.

So we have some front runners like Norway is definitely a front runner with regards to shore shore power, but the fact that we have been front runners is also making an impact in other countries, which is really, really good. So um my personal view is I think that things are still taking too much time. I would like to see it move faster, but it's moving in the right direction. And it's good that we're having regular regulations that is pushing also as well.

I don't know, but in Sweden there are a lot of ports that are owned by the municipality. Is it the same in Norway and is that part of the challenge? Yes, it's more more or less the same in Or Norway as well. Lots of ports are owned by the municipality and the boards of of of the ports are with probably the same uh politicians as as in the municipalities as well.

And it's not a challenge per per se. I think it's uh there are lots of politicians that are really on the forefront and would like to do this. And I think there are at least In Norway a couple of years ago, uh some that have been part of making really brave decisions with regards to being front runners in this area.

But of course there might be someone that would like to do it themselves because you know we want to keep it local and we want to be we want it to be done, you know, by ourselves. And and that might mean that working with us, for instance, isn't as attractive. And uh I very much respect that. So I think that's um obviously a choice that they are allowed to have and and an opinion that they are allowed to have. And uh I'm always saying that

We are rooting for all people that are working with zero emission shipping and we can't do them all. So uh yeah, if they want to try it themselves then then they're allowed to do so. But I think both ports and municipalities in general are not known for speed. So it could be good to have a a partner that could, you know, contribute a little bit pushing in the right direction.

Yeah but I mean if you think about it, if you were a politician in a municipality in a in a not as big city as I'm in Gothenburg and you are in Bergen, I mean we have the view of the world in shipping and and and global decisions and and all of that and Yeah, of course you have to look out for your voters and and and the people who are inhabitant in in your city, and um that's a different perspective.

So may maybe it's a governmental decision that is needed here. Well, we don't have to solve that. I I was just interested because that is my experience that there are a lot of People involved, and of course they should be involved because everything is impacting the people living in your city, in your municipality, in your country, and that is why we are trying to make things better.

Absolutely. And I just want to maybe s yeah, to say something really positive about the politicians in the city of Bergen where we are currently collaborating with the Port of Bergen and have built lots of shore power in infrastructure in the port of Bergen and and one of the reasons why we've we've been Able to to do or to build as much as we have is also because the local politicians, the local municipality of Bergen quite early stated that

they had a goal that every ship coming to Bergen should be offered at least shore power. That was stated many, many years ago, which is I think a a very good place to start. And then they also uh wanted to regulate the number of cruise vessels and the number of cruise passengers. That is also a topic that is uh very much on the agenda around Europe these days.

But I also think that they m made a very clever choice in that sense, because they said first they said that We're only allowed to have three cruise vessels per day. and only eight thousand passengers. And they also wanted to use the whole day so that not every vessel will come in the morning and leave in the afternoon, right? So they will try to use like more turnaround calls and that and and all that. But then there was a talk about, you know, should we allow a fourth vessel or not?

And then they said that well, because Bergen has so much shore power, it will be better for the world that the fourth vessel will come to Bergen. and plug into shore power, then go somewhere else and not being plugged in. So they said that yes, you are allowed to have a fourth cruise vessel.

but it needs to be plugged into shore power. And I think that's that's also an example of how you can make very wise choices as a politician that affect both the emissions of the city, but also I think in general the attractiveness of Bergen as a cruise port.

So I think that was a good one. What a plug for plug. So how do you see the future? Where is this taking us? People are all asking me the question about the technological risk of shore power, you know? What will happen in the future if we are really if if we solve like uh you know all the challenges related to hyd hydrogen or pneumonia and all the other zero emission fuels then My answer to that is that it will always be more cost efficient to connect to shore power while at berth because

you can use the energy directly into the vessel, whereas if you need another fuel, it will need to use the an energy to produce the fuel. And then so the eff efficiency will be so much less, right? So it would always be the best alternative at birth. Uh the only thing that actually can compete will be nuclear power. And I don't think that's coming next year, but it is coming, definitely. And I'm hoping it will, because we need it.

to uh enable zero emission shipping globally. So I'm I'm really hoping that it will come. But I think in the the medium to long term, I think we will still see, as I said, short power being the backbone of port decarb carbonization. We will also see bigger vessels and probably bigger and bigger vessels becoming fully electric or at least hybrid as both the battery prices are coming down and the technology is improving.

And I would also expect that, you know, the saying everything that can be electrified will be electrified will still be valid in the future. But um I'm rooting for all you know, all the zero emission fuels because we need them all in order to solve the challenge that the world is facing today. So uh yeah, I think that's my take on the future.

What is the best part of being the CEO of Plug? The best part is, you know, going to work every day, knowing that um I'm working with a solution, at least to part of the problem. That is really mo motivating. And it was also One of the reasons why I I I chose to sort of move away from the financial industry and in into uh the renewables. Yes, some years ago. And then we are we're we're not a really, really big company. We're around twenty five employees at the moment.

And it's also a a really good bunch of people that are also motivated by the task that we have on our hands. And and there are so many possibilities out there. And And I think the third reason why I really love being part of Plague is that the perks that we're working with, there are so many really, really great people and

to be able to partner with some great ports with some great people and they just you know making sure that we get ships connected and save emissions that is really really great so um yeah I really love like going to Scotland to meet the people of Port of Montrose. There's I mean they're the best best people. It's obviously a good thing you feel a biscuit when you're doing business with people from Scotland. But I mean, coming over there is always such a pleasure.

Yeah, coming to the north of Norway, talking to the people that were in the ports that were c were collaborating there, it's so much fun. And it's yeah, it just makes sense uh when we're uh when we're doing this together. So I think that's yeah, that's the best part of being part of collection. Did you have a role model growing up? I mean, you are

You are a successful businesswoman now. What's the secret source? When I grew up I was very much into sports. I did track and field for many, many years. And even though I went to business school, I still feel like there are much more relevant takeaways from my sporting career than from business school in when it comes to to m business and my daily the daily work that I do.

And think about, you know, all of these things just to be a little bit better today than you were yesterday, being in the process of kind of uh having a long-term goal and working towards it on all of these things. is yeah something that I'm I'm used to and and also think it's there are so many parallels from sports to business in in that sense. So I think

something that a lot of people say, but I also think maybe like Pippi Longstucking, you know, the Swedish and from Astelingen. I I really like her and the way that she approaches things, you know, the

the saying that, well, I've never done this before, so I'm so I'm sure this will be good, you know, I'm s I'm sure I'll manage. I think that's also a very good thing to bring into work every day because at least when you're having a company Not so big and also with an area that is still under development, you need to do a lot of things that you haven't done before and you need to talk about things that you're not really an expert on and

And you need to yeah, you need to be out of your comfort zone and just to have that approach I think is really, really a wise thing and People are, you know, mostly nice and they wish you well. So uh with that that take on thing, I think it's uh yeah, at least how I try to approach things. Yeah. I could plug P longstocking as well for every mother or father out there. Please read that to your children, boys and girls. That's a very good advice. Yeah.

I think uh uh Australindran has a beautiful world that more more people should uh know about. So I think reading Australing in general is a good thing. Yeah. Thank you, Maria, for taking the time to speak to me. I saw you on stage in Barcelona on the Vista International AGM and conference and I thought I need to have a chat with Maria. I think she has got some good ideas that the rest of the world needs to know about.

Thank you. Thank you so much, Leana. It's a pleasure to um to be part of your podcast. Thank you for inviting me. Every matters. Thank you, Maria. There are so many interesting things to consider in our conversation. I learned a lot and the ports around the world they are the key to the next step towards achieving a more sustainable industry. Keep up the good work. And to all my listeners, thank you for listening.

I really appreciate your support and that you're downloading and listening to the shipping podcast. Until the next time, from me to you over and out. Thank you for listening to the shipping podcast. Don't forget to tell everyone that you meet. But there is a shipping podcast available and that Sharing their passion for the