This conversation with Karl Vaters is a fascinating look at the history and impact of the Church Growth Movement in America and around the world. Karl shares how the movement started with good intentions to reach more people for Christ, but over time it became an unhealthy obsession with numerical growth and bigger churches. The danger is that we've often confused numerical size with spiritual health. Karl challenges us to shift our focus away from just growing the numbers, and instead prioritiz...
Aug 30, 2024•1 hr•Season 1Ep. 216
This conversation with Jonny Morrison explores a holistic, relational understanding of the gospel and sin. Jonny shares how his personal story of loss and doubt led him to rediscover the good news of Jesus as a revelation of God's relentless love and restoration. He unpacks how sin is best understood as missing the mark of love, rather than just breaking arbitrary moral laws. Johnny emphasizes the importance of storytelling, community, and participating in God's work of healing generational trau...
Aug 27, 2024•1 hr 4 min•Season 1Ep. 215
In this wide-ranging conversation, Khristi Lauren Adams, author of "Womanish Theology," discusses her personal journey of discovering God through the lens of black girlhood. She reflects on the importance of integrating one's lived experiences with theological study, and how viewing Scripture and theology through diverse cultural perspectives can deepen our understanding of the divine. Adams shares insights from her interviews with young black girls, highlighting their unique perspectives on sal...
Aug 23, 2024•1 hr 5 min•Season 1Ep. 214
This conversation with Lisa was recorded in June just a week after the bombing of Rafah – a refugee camp – a place that was supposed to provide safety from the war. In this conversation, Lisa Sharon Harper covers some incredibly important and challenging topics. We hear Lisa speak passionately about the need for humility - recognizing that we are not God, but rather are created in God's image and called to be stewards of the earth. She then dove deep into the current crisis in Israel and Palesti...
Aug 20, 2024•1 hr•Season 1Ep. 213
In my conversation with Brady Boyd we talk about unity, healing divisions, and keeping the main thing the main thing in the church. Brady shares his experience leading New Life Church in Colorado Springs through a tumultuous season of moral failure and violence, and how they were able to rebuild unity and see a spiritual revival by focusing on serving others, maintaining curiosity, and keeping their eyes fixed on Jesus. We discuss the dangers of social media silos, the importance of peacemaking,...
Aug 16, 2024•56 min•Season 1Ep. 212
In this conversation, Jamie Winship talks about the importance of finding true identity in God and community, rather than in individual performance or achievement. We discuss how fear and shame can lead to false identities, and how addressing the root causes of these negative emotions through prayer and imagination can help people find freedom and peace. We talk through how true identity and addressing the real fear we have can help untie the knots of conflicts and bring needed peace. We touch o...
Aug 13, 2024•58 min•Season 1Ep. 211
In this conversation, Tod Bolsinger provides a thoughtful exploration of the challenges and opportunities facing leaders in a rapidly changing world. He shares insights on the importance of adaptability, humility, and a willingness to learn and experiment in the face of crisis and uncertainty. He discusses the need for leaders to shift their values, attitudes, and behaviors to effectively navigate change, while also centering marginalized voices and maintaining a focus on the core mission. We co...
Aug 09, 2024•1 hr 1 min•Season 1Ep. 210
In this episode, Tia Levings provides a powerful and insightful look into the realities of Christian fundamentalism and patriarchy, and the devastating impact it can have on individuals and families. She shares her personal story of growing up in a high-control religious environment and her eventual escape from an abusive marriage. Her experiences shed light on the dangers of rigid ideologies that value ideas over people, and the critical need for compassion, discernment, and support for those t...
Aug 06, 2024•1 hr•Season 1Ep. 209
In this conversation Eliza Griswold provides a fascinating look into her book Circle of Hope, which chronicles the experiences of a progressive evangelical church in Philadelphia as they navigate major cultural shifts and challenges in 2020. Griswold discusses how she was drawn to explore this particular church community, which represented a different perspective on evangelicalism compared to the dominant narratives. We delve into the tensions and conflicts that arose within the church as they g...
Aug 05, 2024•35 min•Season 1Ep. 208
Amy Orr-Ewing's story is a powerful testament to how God can use our lives in extraordinary ways when we are open to His leading. As a young woman, Amy experienced a prophetic call to go to Afghanistan and share the gospel, which she courageously pursued despite the risks. This experience shaped her life and ministry, empowering her to become a bold and effective leader in defending the Christian faith. Now, Amy has written the book "Lead Like the Real You" with the purpose of empowering young w...
Aug 02, 2024•57 min•Season 1Ep. 207
In this conversation, Tara Beth Leach shares her personal journey of discovering a deeper relationship with Jesus as a teenager, moving beyond a "cultural Christianity" to truly affirming her faith. She emphasizes the importance of living in Christian community and bearing witness to the love and grace of God, rather than just fighting against culture. Tara Beth also discusses the challenges faced by the early church, as described in John's letters, and how they relate to divisions and strife in...
Jul 30, 2024•52 min•Season 1Ep. 206
In this episode, Jenai Auman covers her personal experience of feeling othered within the church, and how that led her to write the book "Othered". She discusses the biblical themes of othering and marginalization, and how God pursues and cares for the marginalized. Jenai also shares insights on building healthy communities that welcome and embrace those who are different, centered on the "hesed" or steadfast love of God. We talk about the importance of self-compassion, forgiveness, and creating...
Jul 26, 2024•1 hr•Season 1Ep. 205
What would you do when all you’ve known disappeared? When the construct of your spiritual life was removed? Well, what Tony Jones did was enter wild places. In it, he found a new connection to God, to his dogs, to nature, and the world that is teeming with life. In this conversation, Tony shares about the ups and downs of ministry and family life and recalibrating his identity as he moved out of the vocational role as a pastor and into wild places. Join us as we discover the God who sees us and ...
Jul 23, 2024•59 min•Season 1Ep. 204
I can’t imagine coming home from preschool and being christened into the drug trafficking business by your father. But Dana Trent can because that’s exactly what happened to her. In this conversation, Dana and I discuss her story growing up with two mentally unwell parents as told through her excellent memoir Between Two Trailers. Dana shares experiences with childhood trauma, identity formation, and spiritual practices that aid healing. We discuss the role of Christian community in supporting m...
Jul 19, 2024•59 min•Season 1Ep. 203
There is a loneliness epidemic. We’ve lost our ability to connect to one another. In this conversation with Bryan Loritts we discuss the importance of enduring friendships. God's primary way of shaping people is through relationships with others and the Bible places a high premium on relationships, seen in concepts like the Trinity and salvation. Jesus modeled community by choosing 12 disciples to be with. We talk about the idea that friendships are important for accountability, correction and p...
Jul 16, 2024•59 min•Season 1Ep. 202
I have seen leaders, ministry workers, and missionaries burnout over and over. There has to be something that works. Alan Briggs says part of it is a training issue. We train for the launch, but not for longevity. In this episode, Alan discusses leadership burnout and how to cultivate healthy, sustainable habits to avoid burnout. Alan shares insights from his experience coaching leaders, emphasizing the importance of prioritizing self-care, quality time with family, boundaries, and living intent...
Jul 12, 2024•1 hr 1 min•Season 1Ep. 201
In this conversation, Rich Villodas and I focus on Jesus' teachings in the Sermon on the Mount and what it means to follow the narrow path. We discuss how the Sermon on the Mount helps navigate cultural diversity, the differences between the narrow path and broad way of living, Jesus' teachings on topics like the Beatitudes, money, anxiety, and individualism vs communal life. We also talk about issues like peacemaking, witnessing one's faith, cultivating presence, and navigating spiritual forces...
Jul 09, 2024•1 hr 1 min•Season 1Ep. 200
Politics is a dirty word for a lot of people. We think about strife, conflict, waging war for power. But is there good news in politics? Well Ross Kane thinks so. In this conversation, we reflect on his latest book The Good News of Church Politics. Ross discusses how politics is about organizing common life and decision making in communities, large and small. He talks about how Jesus navigated politics skillfully in the Gospels. He also describes how congregations can cultivate "politics of love...
Jul 07, 2024•1 hr•Season 1Ep. 199
Christian extremism is on the rise in the United States. Elizabeth Neumann joins us to talk about what is happening, why it’s happening, and provides some pathways back to peace. She discusses how some churches have shifted away from Jesus' message of love towards a message of fear, grievance, and a desire to assert cultural power. She outlines the factors that have gotten us to this place like uncertainty, rapid social changes, and unmet needs for belonging and significance that can make people...
Jul 05, 2024•58 min•Season 1Ep. 198
I have been a missionary and have trained and sent many missionaries. One of the things that we forget about is preparing for longevity. We often rely on ourselves, our own strengths and abilities to work for God. We have to figure out a way to work with God, be connected with Him, and follow His lead. In this conversation Jeremy and Monica provide insights into a healthy missional spirituality. They discuss their backgrounds in church planting, experiences with burnout, and insights on balancin...
Jul 02, 2024•1 hr•Season 1Ep. 197
The world is noisy. It’s hard to listen, to pay attention, and attune to God. Jay Kim helps us do just that in this conversation. Jay shares his journey of learning to tune out distractions and align their life to God's frequency through daily habits of prayer, scripture reading, and creating space for listening. We talk about hearing God speak through diverse communities, listening and speaking across differences, and cultivating empathy through curiosity in conversations. Jay offers practical ...
Jun 28, 2024•48 min•Season 1Ep. 196
Often we look at communities which look broken and dysfunctional and we take them on as a problem to be solved. But long term change requires presence, love, and hope. In this conversation, Amy Williams, a hope dealer in Chicago talks about her experience living in a neighborhood with gang violence, visiting kids in jail, and doing youth ministry work for years. There is hope in the community and many of the solutions come from within that same community. We talk about the importance of listenin...
Jun 25, 2024•59 min•Season 1Ep. 195
I have seen a lot of bad leadership out there. I know that there is a better way and a way to lead from all of who we are that builds people, gives voice to others, and empowers people in such a way that we can accomplish what God has entrusted us. In this conversation, Karl Martin talks about leading from a deeper place. Leading from the soul. Through the framework of the cave – the quest of the true, the road – the way of the brave, the table – the art of the kind, and the fire – the pursuit o...
Jun 21, 2024•1 hr 1 min•Season 1Ep. 194
There are cracks in the foundation. We have assumed that church and discipleship should look a certain way to produce more numbers, but through the last several years, we’ve seen we may have missed the mark. In this episode, Daniel Im discusses discipleship in a post-modern world where truth is seen as subjective rather than objective. He proposes a discipleship framework that focuses on interested Christians and interested non-Christians rather than just reaching one group or the other. He enco...
Jun 18, 2024•1 hr 3 min•Season 1Ep. 193
You know what it’s like. There is a stirring inside. A whisper that tells you which direction to head in. I’ve heard it. I’ve followed it and amazing things have happened. Someone else that has trusted the whisper is Kathy Izard. In this conversation, we focus on listening to and trusting God's whispers to follow one's life path and calling. Kathy shares her personal journey of hearing God's call to address homelessness in her community through founding a housing program. She discusses how commu...
Jun 14, 2024•55 min•Season 1Ep. 192
In this episode, Sarah E. Westfall shares about belonging, identity, and community. Sarah shares her personal journey of finding belonging through vulnerability and authentic connection rather than external performance. We discuss how to cultivate belonging through contemplative practices, empathy, humility, and asking open-ended questions. We also address the challenges of loneliness and isolation, and offer tips for overcoming feelings of not belonging through small acts of connection and rela...
Jun 11, 2024•56 min•Season 1Ep. 191
Uncertainty and destabilization comes at a moment’s notice. When faced with uncertain times, what do we turn to? W. David O. Taylor turned towards writing prayers in the form of collects when the world shut down March 15th, 2020. In this conversation, David explores various spiritual disciplines and practices for deepening one's prayer life and connection to God, especially during times of uncertainty. He shares how writing ancient-style prayers called "collects" brought him comfort during the p...
Jun 07, 2024•1 hr•Season 1Ep. 190
Anxiety is rampant. It’s everywhere. Does the way we worship enhance our collective anxiety? In this episode, Michael Jordan and I have a conversation exploring how Christian worship practices can both help and hinder people experiencing anxiety and mental health struggles. Michael discusses the history of evangelical worship traditions and how they have sometimes relied on heightening anxiety to bring people to repentance. However, Jesus modeled a different approach of meeting and accepting peo...
Jun 04, 2024•57 min•Season 1Ep. 189
There is a homelessness crisis in the United States. And yes, we have a conversation around the context of the U.S. currently, but there are a lot of helpful points that will help in different contexts around the world. In this episode, Robert Marbut provides helpful context about homelessness in the United States, discusses the underlying issues that often lead to homelessness like untreated mental illness and substance abuse. He emphasizes the importance of a holistic, trauma-informed approach...
May 31, 2024•1 hr 3 min•Season 1Ep. 188
We live in turbulent times. I know we have all felt the shaking in the past many years. Division, Death, Disconnection wreak havoc. There are ways that we cope that don’t bring life and joy only more sorrow and pain. But there are ways that make us more fully alive. There are practices that enable a life of flourishing and may just save our civilization. And that’s what Elizabeth Oldfield does in the conversation. She talks about the importance of relationships and connection in living a fully a...
May 28, 2024•59 min•Season 1Ep. 187
