We are living in a distracted age, we are living in a time that our attention is decreasing and our ability to scroll without and to fill every moment of time with some sort. I think that that leaves our soul malnourished. And so if we're experiencing that, or we're seeing that, I think the question is, so how do we break that? How do we find greater depth? How do we find a way of rediscovering depth and significance in prayer?
Hello, and welcome to the shifting culture podcast in which we have conversations about the culture we create, and the impact we can make. We long to see the body of Christ look like Jesus. I'm your host, Joshua Johnson, go to shifting culture podcast.com to interact and donate. And don't forget to hit the Follow button on your favorite podcast app to be notified when new episodes come out each week, and go leave
a rating and review. It's easy, it only takes a second and it helps us find new listeners to the show. Just go to the Show page on the app that you're using right now and hit five stars. Thank you so much. But even better than that, why don't you share this podcast with your friends, if you're enjoying it as much as I am? And I don't know if that's possible, because
I love doing this podcast. But if you are, I would highly recommend please go share this with your friends and your family and say hey, this is a great podcast for you to subscribe to listen to you. There's a lot of incredible things that are happening. So please, can you share this with other people. Previous guests on the show have included Adrian Reeves, Ryan Skoog, which is part one of lead with prayer and Cameron Doolittle which is part
two of lead with prayer. You can go back listen to those episodes and more. But today's guest is Peter Greer. Peter Greer is the president and CEO of Hope International, a global Christ centered economic development organizations serving throughout Africa, Asia, Latin America and Eastern Europe. Under Peters leadership, Hope has expanded from working in two to over 20 countries and served over 2.5 million families. Prior to joining hope Peter worked in Cambodia, Zimbabwe and Rwanda.
He has co authored 15 books, including mission drift, rooting for rivals the gift of disillusionment, and the spiritual danger of doing good is new book lead with prayer is now available. Peter and I have a great conversation around the book lead with prayer, we dive into the gift that prayer is we talk through group discernment through listening and prayer, new postures that can aid our prayer life, carrying the culture of prayer so that we
could help transform others. We marveled at the joy and hope that comes through suffering, and the embodied presence of Jesus with us in the midst of that suffering. Join us as we discover new tools and ways to pray so that we can experience delight in ways that come through being with Jesus as we pray. Here's my conversation with Peter Greer. Uh, Peter, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you on. Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks so much for the invitation. Yeah, I'd love to
get into to prayer today. So let's start a little bit with your, your prayer life. How did you I know a lot of people I don't know your journey with Jesus. But a lot of people either awaken to prayer right away with their journey to Jesus, or sometimes it's a different epiphany somewhere along the way, like, Oh, I forgot that we need to step into this. What's your journey with Jesus and prayer and your own prayer life?
However, I would say, I found odd comfort from the fact that when you look at the vast majority of leaders and pastors, the vast majority would say that they are dissatisfied with their prayer life. And there's this gap between what we know to be true. And then what we actually live as if it were
true. And perhaps their gap is nowhere greater than when it comes to prayer that we would say what an incredible gift that we have to be able to commune with God Almighty in prayer, what an absolute amazing gift. And then the disconnect with that actually being woven in. And you know, really, for me, the moment when I first realized I had a prayer problem was when we were on a day of prayer, and we were given this time and we were given the space. And I just
couldn't slow my mind down. I couldn't actually pray because my mind was just going so fast. It's a really, this book this process. It has been an absolute gift to dive much deeper into the habits and practices of prayer. And I believe it is possible to make progress I believe it is possible to narrow that gap between What we say and what we do and to find not just the duty of prayer, but to discover a great delight in it.
So I'd say that's the journey that I've been on and really working on the book with, with Ryan and Cameron. And Jill has just been an incredible gift in my own life and understanding much greater depths, and the beauty of
prayer. But so if you started to, like your mind wouldn't slow down in that time, what were some of the ways that you were able to start to slow your mind down so you can start to engage in prayer? Yeah,
and so really the whole kind of reading process, we were trying to find leaders who pray, leaders that actually understand and practice prayer. And, you know, in some ways, just emulating, just following their example has been the gift. And I find it really interesting that the disciples came to Jesus, and what was their question? They said, Lord, teach us how to pray Exactly. And so I feel like that's the journey we've been on how to teach us
how to pray. And you know, some of the things that are so simple, but have had an impact on my life is, first of all, just the exploration of posture, the way that physical posture is connected to our prayer life. And if our prayer posture is lying down head on the pillow. With the lights out, that might not be the best place for deep, significant prayer. I'm not saying that's not the right time
to pray, it certainly is. But if that's the extent that's going to have an impact on our prayer life, and what we learned from individuals around the world is some real simple habits and practices that can align our body, to shape our heart and to engage in more meaningful prayer. So that's one super practical way that we just had to have fun experimenting, and looking at the connection between our physical posture and our prayer life and found out much greater depth and attention. As a result.
It is interesting that we don't really think about physical posture very much not as somebody who trains missionaries. So as a missionary myself around the world, one of the big things of brand new believers is teaches how to pray. And I find a lot of missionaries just say, Oh, you just talked to God. And CZ. But Jesus didn't do that with the Lord's Prayer, right? He said, that here's a recited prayer that you could pray, you could go through these steps, and it's really helpful for people.
What's, uh, what's one posture that has helped you, or a posture that you found while interviewing some of these leaders with prayer that they have done that you go, oh, I want to start to engage in in that posture? Because I think that's really helpful.
Yeah, I mean, so just the one that comes to mind that we heard, and whenever we heard themes from different individuals from around the world, our ears perked up when there were different practices. And so just real, real simple, the two that I found most helpful. One was just a wobble early, talked about how every day you just got in the habit, first thing, before even the eyes are fully open, getting down on his knees, and starting the day there and then ending
the day in the same way. And that that does something to the heart. And I found the same thing to be true with our friends in the Philippines, that we had the privilege of learning with. But similarly, they would have the body and they'd have these prayer mats. And that was how they started. So that's one just real simple, real practical. But throughout the history, followers of Jesus, have had this posture of saying we want to make sure that we are, yeah, there's that level of
humility. There's a level of, of attentiveness that happens with that. So that's one sub one. And then the other one is just the exploration of even simple hand postures, we found several individuals that would start with just palms up, hands open, and saying, Lord, here I am, filming use me, and then ending the prayer with turning the hands over and saying the things that I'm carrying the burdens that I have, I release them to you as a way of framing the
prayers. And, again, just small examples, but it was fun to experiment and to understand this connection, our posture, it does impact our prayer link.
I was meeting with my spiritual director earlier today. And I have I think, last night went into a place a frenzy and chaos and I needed peace and be grounded with the peace of Jesus and I couldn't find it. I I wasn't doing very well last night. So I was asked, How do I become grounded? And one of the ways you know, he just asked me, okay, I'm just asked the Lord, where's where do you find peace
in your body? And the first thing that came to my mind was that I needed to be on my knees, like these columns on my knees. And it felt like that posture of like, kneeling before the Lord is the thing that's going to bring peace to the situation that I find myself in or any situation that I need to get there to get to that posture.
And so bringing that up that posture of, of being on our knees, it's really I think, important, you know, even individually for me to dive into and say, Okay, God, here's my posture, now start to, to do this. And then that open hand posture, and then releasing things back to the Lord. My question for you like, as you interact and work throughout the world, and I know that, you know, with Hope International, there's probably a lot of crises and, and difficult things on the
ground everywhere. And you're gonna have to do that, that posture, like received from the Lord and then release it to him. Is there a specific moment that you can think of, as you're, you're leading, and a different crisis moment where you're, you're practically or just like, this is the posture that I'm receiving from him that I'm releasing that? And what effect did that have?
Yeah, and thanks so much for sharing your personal experience, even recently, with last night and today. Thank you. Yeah, I resonate with that a lot. Yeah. And over the last couple of years, it certainly seems like there have been more opportunities than ever before,
to feel overwhelmed. And isn't that a great invitation into prayer, but some of the specific moments for us, we were founded as an organization, partnering with a church in Zephyros, Ukraine, and zap, Rosa, where Hope International was founded, made the headlines, because that is not far away from where a lot of the fighting with Russia's invasion into Ukraine and the rest, we saw on the news about the power plant that was there, and the fighting that was all around there, that is not just a
city. That's where our friends are, that's where our colleagues are, that's where the families that we serve are. And at that, that that was a moment, where you literally like you can't control the situation you do everything you do to care for the staff to figure out how we're going to care for the families that we serve, and, and even now to figure out how do we rebuild and invest in entrepreneurs in Ukraine and help them rebuild their nation, but there is so much that feels
completely out of control. And isn't it an amazing gift, to have in those moments of feeling overwhelmed feeling like it is beyond you to know what to do, and to go to the one who is wise enough, who who is full of so much love and so much grace and is active in those places. And just simply to say, you know, we found the power of some short prayers over the last couple of years. But Lord, help, Lord, save Lord, deliver Lord rescue, and just praying for our friends
and our colleagues. And finding, again, that odd sense of sometimes the situation doesn't immediately change. But you can have a little bit more of a release, when you remember who it is that you're speaking to.
I think it's really hard when you're at a place where you're leading something, and you're trying to give gravity and leadership to a situation where you don't have control. That's a really hard place to be as a leader. And one of the things that I worry about when we talk about, you know, different postures of leadership or how to lead is that, especially, you know, in this book, the worry that I have is that prayer is going to be a
another leadership hack. We're going to, you know, just utilize this so that we can be successful in our own right, that we could lift up our own selves and go, I'm just going to use prayer for my own organization or my own leadership. How can we avoid that temptation, of just trying to make it a new hack for us, and just be in the presence of the Lord and do it for prayer sake, and then fruit comes because of that?
Iron is so good. I so appreciate you doing that. And yeah, if this is a tool, a trick, a technique, a hack, that ultimately look at how it benefits me. We have lost the very beginning point of remembering who we're speaking to remembering whose presence we are entering into this incredible mystery of prayer and I love how in the book of Jeremiah, there's this phrase, Jeremiah, chapter 17. And it
really answers that question. So clearly, but it has this line where it says, it actually says it in really strong words as cursed to those who rely on human strength, whose hearts turn away from the Lord. And it's possible in leadership, even in our prayer to have it be very self serving, very self seeking, this is what I want,
this is what I need. This is the way I can manipulate the circumstances for my own good, and to try and engineer our success, and use the tool or trick of prayer in the process. But then Jeremiah 17, goes on it. But blessed are those whose hope in the Lord had made the Lord their hope and confidence.
And I think that's really what this comes down to at the, at the very beginning, at the very end, is this invitation to remember who it is that we are speaking with, to come to the end of our limits the end of our ability, and to truly want God's will more than our own. And again, I find that just opens up the heart opens up the hands, and it's less about what I want, and much more about God. We need you, you know, so interesting. One of the interviews, I was
with Johnny Erickson Tada. And that was a incredible privilege to have time to learn from her but but she said, a lot of people over the years have come to her and asked for very specific prayers for healing. And, you know, she says, My prayers for healing or relief from this incredible pain, I'm still praying that it has not come. But she said, I will pray for that. But I'm going to spend at least 80% of the prayer time praying not just for the issue, but that God might be at work in
the midst of it. And I thought that to be such an interesting perspective to say, Yeah, of course, we're going to pray for the things that are on our hearts. But are we also going to pray with a higher degree of trust, a greater degree of confidence that even in incredible difficulty, God is still at work, and down that conversation with her. That's one of the ones that just has been resonating, even about the way that we pray and what we
pray for. And it has far less to do with specific answers to what I want, and much more God you're at work, your ways are best. Show me, lead me, teach me and helped me to have the courage to obey.
I think we often think that, you know, prayer is talking to God. But we often forget about the listening part. And I think that what she's talking about in the midst of, of real difficult circumstances that are probably not going to change, we're walking with him, but the presence of God with us is so important. And knowing that he's there either through hearing his voice, or just
feeling his presence. How then, in those difficult times, do we get to a place where we're not just petitioning God and saying, Help Help help do this, but okay, what do you want in this situation? Lord, what are you saying in the situation? Or how can I hear you please, you know, speak, in this way, be present here? How could we move our posture from petition to listening and being with God in prayer,
hesitant interestingly, when the disciples asked Jesus, Lord, teach us to pray, he gave some specific words. And those words are incredibly powerful. And what is one of the ones in there, your will be done. And and I think that's a huge piece of this is aligning, not just our desires, but to have them shaped dab them formed by a desire to see Lord Your will be done on earth as it is in
heaven. And for that to be what drives us for that to be the vision that we are going after, for that to be the primary prayer.
Can you give me an example of you going into a new country with with hope and saying, God, what is your will in this country? We want to your will to be done here? And that what are some of the the things that opened up? Because you are willing to say, God, we want your kingdom to be here to be unveiled to, to these people? How do you want to go about doing that?
Again, I'm so thankful. For Ruth Haley Barton, she wrote a book called pursuing God's Will together. And in that book, she gives a great blueprint for how to do this. And in many ways, there's some similarity between that of what is not just the individual, but what is the corporate discernment process. And I think about the recent country that we launched into is in West Africa spinning and this is a place it's a region that we had not
been in before. And up until the moment that we presented to the Board of Directors, there were several countries we he thought were great options, and to go through that discernment process to go through that. And yes, you want to gather the facts, yes, you want to do the research you want to look for where are those
invitations. And then at the end, before the decision is made, is there time, is there space to not do a little prayer, Pixy dust that you sprinkle on the top, but to actually engage in the listening process, and I'm so thankful our board chair puts us into practice, and just before the decisions are made, without fail, pause, let's stop. Let's listen. Before any decision
is made, the nice thing that you guys did is you interviewed people from all over the world global leaders and say, You're teaching us how to pray? What does it look like? I often think because, you know, in the West, you know, I'm sitting here in Kansas City, your city to the West as well, what is it? We think things through individually, it's an individualistic culture that we live in, we think that it's our personal prayer time. But that corporate discernment process is
not just individual. What does it look like then to hold hands together in prayer? Like, how do we do that with one another? And it's not just, you know, our own individual prayer time?
That's really interesting. If you would type into Google, about prayer, would it be images that come up, it is all individual, like, almost all the very way that we think about prayer is a individual activity. And yet, that is not necessarily the way that it is thought about seen or experienced corporately, and in some ways in our culture can feel a little bit awkward. I don't know who's going to speak and I'm more of an introvert, I don't know if I really want to
share. And I think in those settings, there's two, two, maybe recommendations. One is start small, maybe instead of finding a whole room full of people, maybe it's just one or two people, but it is, it is powerful when you pray with and in agreement with another person. And then maybe if it's a little bit of a larger setting, you know, we've really enjoyed using every moment holy. And that gives language around prayers and different events and
different prompts. And maybe it's more using some of the prayers of someone else to guide and then you're praying in agreement with words that have been written and prayed by others. So there's just I guess that to me, is like one of the biggest takeaways, there's so much more to explore. Regardless of where you are in your prayer journey. There's, there's so much more depth, there's so much more to explore. And, yeah, again, that's been the great joys, let's learn from others.
Let's learn from praying leaders, let's learn from other practices that might be outside of, you know, just what I am comfortable with and an experiment and my experience, our experience was that you might discover some new depths in in your enjoyment and experience of this incredible gift of prayer.
Hmm, what do you think? I've heard I had, I was talking to somebody that has written a number of books, and he said, My least successful books are the ones about prayer. That would release a book on prayer. Well, but I, but it's the foundation is like one of the most important things. But I, it's I'm not talking about the success of your book or not, like we're is we're gonna get people to be able to pray. But I think a lot of people think that prayer, I don't know, isn't very
important. I just, I mean, as anecdotally, like talking about, you know, I'm not gonna buy a book on prayer, why? It just means talking to God, why do you think it's important for us to dive deep into this, to say, grow in our depth of our enjoyment and our love of prayer have been with the One who created us, which is what it is, like, wow, I get to be in the presence of God, which is the coolest thing ever is awesome. But why do you think that? I, hopefully things are changing in
this in this world? I mean, we're going through a lot of crazy times. So hopefully, we're gonna get back into a place of I need to rely on God. But why do you think that we, we really need to dig into this. Now why is it so important?
Yeah, and I would say to those people, that when they think about their prayer life, they are fully satisfied. They are fully enjoying it. They don't need the book on that. But for the others, that at least statistically is a significant portion that say, oh, I want to grow in this area I, I resonate every time I read those words and the disciples, Lord, teach us to pray like that, that resonates with me so much for
those individuals. I think we have a lot to learn from a global church, I think we have a lot to look from the historical church. And I think we have a lot to learn from leaders that have figured out how to build cultures of prayer. So I would say that's it. The question of why now, I think the other component that we are seeing is, we are living in a distracted age, we are living in a time that our attention is decreasing and our ability to scroll without and to fill every moment
of time with some sort. I think that that leaves our soul malnourished. And so if we're experiencing that, or we're seeing that, I think the question is, so how do we break that? How do we find greater depth? How do we find a way of rediscovering depth and significance in prayer? And again, part of the deal is, I don't think that is always
experienced alone. In one minute, distracted prayers, I think there's, there's a benefit in slowing down our minds slowing down our hearts, and maybe some of the, you know, the chapters on the ability to retreat. Isn't it amazing that Jesus with limited time to do all the deed he kept disappearing, he kept pulling away. And if that is true for Jesus, maybe it's true for us. And if we have never pulled away to have devoted, focused, undistracted time, we can't remember the last time that we
had a moment like that. Wouldn't it be great to experiment? Wouldn't it be great to try it out. And so I think that's part of the issue now is, I just I just in my own life, distracted, like internal RPMs too high, it was having an impact on my soul, and slowing down. And, again, I think prayer is this unbelievable gift out with so much more depth to explore. And my guess is it might have a really transformational impact on you, and on the relationships and on the way that you read.
I think so too. And I think one of the things that I believe is that if we want to grow a culture, or grow a culture of prayer, in the places where we lead, it often comes through a person that is carrying that presence of whatever culture that you want to impart, you're imparting culture to other people, I don't think that, hey, we have a value of prayer, just writing it down, without carrying it and living
it out ourselves. It's not going to transform the rest of the organization that we're leading. So what are some of the rhythms that we can engage in, to start then to transform the entire culture to grow in rhythms of prayer and to create a culture of prayer?
Yeah, so one of the people that we interviewed for the book, his name is David and, and he was doing a lot to study prayer, and to try and find a way of, of learning about prayer, and he had this firm conviction. You got a model before you multiply. And that changed everything. It was him learning to practice in a way and, and then to multiply. And in a similar way, that's what we saw. That's what we experienced is the leaders that have created cultures of prayer. They're not
afraid to go first. To say, Let me change the way that I pray, let's, let's understand what that looks like. And then in a very authentic way to invite others into that journey of that. And so all kinds of great examples of what that looks like in the nonprofit and the for profit, all kinds of great examples. But I remember visiting the International Justice Mission, and finding it eerily quiet every day at 830. Because that's when they shut
everything down to pray. And Gary Haugen, founder said, essentially, how could we think that we'll be able to do this global work combating human trafficking if we do not find time to stop and pray this mission is beyond our ability. And in a similar way, with Hope International, there's something beautiful and powerful. We don't do it at 830. We do it at 1130.
But like literally just stopping, ceasing and gathering to pray together or what's going on around the world, or what's going on in our lives and to just be reminded that this mission that we're going after, it is impossible, without God's incredible grace and divine intervention, I want
to dive even a little bit deeper of like modeling and then multiplying out. So we're, we're modeling, and now you're getting the, this some staff to be able to do it, we're gonna pause, we're gonna do that this is our rhythm, a daily rhythm that we're going to stop at 1130. And we're going to
do that. So if you're, whatever maybe you've been in, or whatever country that you're in, and you have the disciples that you're working with, or people, so how then does it multiply out to the people that are utilizing the savings bank, that you're you're doing, that are helping to getting micro financing loans and starting their own businesses and coming out of
poverty? Is there a way that that starts to multiply out even to the disciples of the people that are utilizing and your services and the people that you engage with and work with?
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I see it almost as this circle, where it is, you know, when I spend time, with families around the world, and you get to pray with them. And it's not just one way, I mean, of course, we want to be praying for our team and for the families that we serve, but then to also have them pray for you. Oh, it is so humbling, and, and
powerful on that. And, and, and there is such a beautiful, like we're coming together in front of God Almighty, as brothers and sisters linking arm and arm. There is no other dynamic, other than coming together. And yeah, so I think about that, but in the places that we serve around the world, operationally, the way that it works is we go through these five W's every time, a group gather. So we're trying to, you know, the core mission is about investing in the dreams of families as we
proclaim to live the gospel. So we are investing in entrepreneurs, we're helping them start or expand small businesses, and we're helping them grow closer to Christ as they go about this work. And so when the groups gather, and you know, we have now, sort of 2.7 million families that have been either receiving a savings account or been able to invest together receive a loan, and every time they gather together, they go through five W's. So the five W's are welcome, worship,
word, work, and wrap up. And there's something amazing that if you look at that, one of them is about the financial transaction, and saving and investing. That's the work portion. But the other portions are about this experience together, and the welcome and the worship. This is a time in our words, in our prayers. And in our song, we start every gathering, inviting God's presence in, because we serve a God of hope. And in the communities we serve in, which is real. I mean, it's extreme
poverty. I can't imagine trying to do this work without that hope that is rooted in the gospel. So that's where we start. We start with prayer. And we start with worship. And we start with checking in how are we doing, and the opportunity to really have prayer as a foundational component of, of this, this work. So it's not just about investing in dreams from the financial capital, it's so much more than that. And the relationships and prayer plays a significant role in that as well.
Hmm. That's really good. And I think that's really helpful that we're investing in a holistic model of life, that there's, you know, that financial gain, and then the finances and out of poverty, but we're also there's poverty of our spiritual lives, as well, that we want to invest in. And I'm sure there's, there's poverty of our, you know, their familiar lives and our community lives that we're trying to, you're trying to build people
together and grow together. So there's all sorts of growing up into that. And I think prayer is essential in that leading of it and multiplying it out. That was great example. Well done. There's all seconds. It's good. As you went through this book, and started to talk through leaders for you, what really resonated like is there a chapter in there that's like, Oh, that's my that's that's
Peters chapter. This is this is the thing that I I really gravitated towards or the leader that I spoke to you that I was like, Ah, I can't stop thinking about that. That's, that's so good. Yeah.
Oh, there are so many in that I already referenced it briefly, but I don't know if I captured it in the way that I was just talking but there was a joy in Johnny Erickson Tada. Like, there was a joy and there was a depth and her suffering. And scripture shaped her prayer life in a way that I can't stop thinking about it, I just can't, there is so much more I went back and I read some other of her books, and I read them with a new voice in my ears, and a new perspective in
that. So that's the one that stands out. I think the other one, you know, there was several leaders from around the world that are just living in unimaginably complex situations. And, and there was a joy that defied circumstance in several of them. And the line that just stood out several times was essentially getting your getting your heart happy in the Lord.
And actually finding your soul satisfaction, finding your contentment, finding your peace in your relationship with the one who made you, the one who knows you, the one who saves you. And then how that just changes how you go about the day. That changes the way you experience disappointment, because you've already experienced the delight of, of your heavenly Father. And I don't know that that idea of finding prayer, not as drudgery. But delight, and I'm not there
yet. But I have had moments, while we've been working on this book and trying some things that, that I think for the first time, my life, I experienced delight in prayer. And that was, I was new, I won't bore that.
I often am surprised that the most joyful people, the ones that have suffered, and why do you think that is?
That is beyond my paygrade. On that one. i The only thing that comes to mind is when you have the distractions peeled away. And when you actually get to experience grace and peace that defies circumstance, I think there is a different level of depth and experience that you have in that moment. So I think suffering perhaps unlike anything else, causes us to say we can't save ourselves. We can't, we can't fix what is broken. But there's one who delights in being
present in that moment. And I think that's what they've experienced. They've experienced the letting go of the illusions of the shadows, and holding on to that which is real true life.
Yeah, the presence of Jesus in our lives have just been with us, in the midst of everything and knowing that he is faithful to be with us, I think is such a man, it's such a crucial piece and moment that I can't do anything apart from the Lord. Now, I think that's part of it. It's like I can't do anything else. Except for be with Jesus, Jesus with me. And so that's, I mean, that's huge. I mean, we have, you know, unimaginable
suffering. You know, the founders of my the missions organization that I help run all nations, the founder, you know, Floyd McClung was, you know, in the hospital for five years before he passed away, like, trapped in his body, his wife, Sally gone through cancer for many years, but Sally going through that with her husband, going through cancer treatment, after cancer treatment and surviving, but can't really getting out of her house. She has probably the biggest joy
that I've ever seen. Because, and it comes through, and her communication and her writing, and she just delights in being with the Lord. It's, it's tremendous to be able to see people and to say, Okay, I want some of that. But I don't know if I want that suffering peace. But I hope that joy, but we have a suffering servant, we have Jesus who suffered for us. So suffering is such a key to our life with Christ that we don't often want to engage in. But we do get the presence of Jesus
when we do suffer. If you could tell the listener here, or your reader, one thing, what would you want them to get out of this? What would you want them to step away from? And how would their life be transformed because of this?
I guess maybe it's just that simple idea of it is possible to make progress, like real meaningful progress in your prayer life. And so I would just say, like, try it, try it for a month, try some new habits, try some new practices, and we tried to create as many tools as we could, because this is not just about a book. We are thrilled to imagine what might happen. If there was a movement in our day in our time of people that rediscovered this incredible, incredible gift of prayer. I'd
say try it. Try it for a month. And if you need some ELP there's a real simple 21 day kind of prayer guide that we have to help people start on this journey. And I would just say, try and experiment with it. And you might just be surprised at how much it impacts you.
I think it's really helpful. Every chapter you got, you got practical ways to pray, and to engage, and practical steps. And I'm so thankful for that. Because oftentimes you get a prayer book, you get something, and it's very inspiring. And then you're like, I can't enter into that, I can't do that. That's not me. But you have these these steps that you say, enter into this practice and see how it fits, and see how it could work
for you. And then you you keep going through those, those chapters, and you've created a lot more. So lead with prayer.com, you have a lot more resources on there for people to enter into. And I think that's really going to benefit a tremendous amount of people. And I know that prayer resources have been incredibly helpful for millions of people around the world. And I just pray that this also is one of those resources that many people benefit from stepping into start to pray.
Because when we pray, and God leads, we hear from him, we do what he says, incredible things are going to happen. We're going to see transformation happen all over the world. Before I get into two last questions that I like to ask, I'd love to ask for you. What is exciting, with something and Hope International? What are you really excited about right now of what hope is doing around the world?
Yeah, you know, the thing that comes immediately to mind is, so we've been around for 2627 years as an organization and really had this area of focus, we're going to do a small number of things. And we're going to try to do it really well. Those two things are church centered savings groups, and then microfinance institutions. And as we've been doing that we've had a number of other organizations that have reached out and said, We want to figure out how we can include some sort of economic
development component. And our response in the past was just to say, here's our, what we've developed, go for it, we're cheering for yes. And few years ago, we started a little bit different and saying, Well, what if we could actually do more with that? What if we could actually have a part of hope to train and equip other organizations still with this posture of open handedness, and so we call it savings, group multiply. And we've been training and partnering with
other organizations. And it has been awesome to see the kind of scale and impact in a short amount of time and really just these friendships grow with other organizations that were doing important missions work or church planning, but now to have another tool that they can use to address extreme poverty. So that's been fun, just the partnership, the open handedness. And just this reminder, yeah, we are part of a bigger mission that extends beyond the bounds of any one
organization. And if we can leverage if we can take what we've learned in the models, train and equip other organizations, that's just going to be much more Kingdom impact as a result.
Yeah, and it's gonna have a lot, I'm just gonna, just anecdotally, in our organization, we have a piece we call pioneer business planting where we're helping people plant businesses and churches, among unreached people groups. And that has really the most fruitful thing that we're doing right now. Around the world is through that. And so bringing both of those things together, has been crucial. So I would highly recommend people check
that out. So that they, you could train them help them in a way I think it's extremely beneficial and fruitful as you're bringing a holistic view of what it looks like to bring up a community together in a way that looks like the kingdom. It's amazing. So Peter, if you could go back to your 21 year old self, what advice would you give
him? Well, I would just say Don't forget that in all of the work all of this driving don't forget prayer as a critical component of all of it. Be centered be rooted in prayer. We said didn't have to wait till this point. discover some of the beauty of that so um, that obviously is top of mind based on what we've just been talking about. But I sincerely mean that I think that would have made a difference. I know that would have made a difference in the way that I lead and serve and, and yeah,
awesome. Anything you've been reading or watching lately, you could recommend
i i have been this is so random. But the first thing that came to mind, I got to meet someone named creeks. Stuart, and he is a survivalist. And I have had so much fun, check it out his videos online. And I think part of the fascination with that is with a survivalist. This is someone who is getting out into nature with a very small number of things. And I think that in this world that we live in, that is so tech addicted, the ability to let go enjoy this world, maybe connects
to our conversation here. Yeah, but I have just been so interested in getting into nature, and experiencing things that you don't see if you are looking at a screen. And so that's what we've had fun with as a family watching videos of creek steward and survival skills that if I happen to be dropped off in a remote island, I'd be able to survive a little bit longer as a result of what we've been experiencing. That's the first thing that came to mind. That's awesome. Craig Stewart.
All right, I gotta check him out, check out his videos, that should be a lot of fun. How can people connect with you? Where would you like to point people to? How can people go get your book. And
so hope international.org for anything related to what we were just talking about related to the savings group and global missions on that side. And then with the book, if you go with lead with prayer.com, that's the best way to go. And again, all of the prayer tools are available there as well. So lead with paradox calm and personally, you go to Peter Kay Greer, that's where I'm on all the socials, Peter Kay greer.com, you want to connect
with me. And if I can help in any way, I would love to try and do it. Awesome.
Peter, thank you so much for this conversation, to really dive deep in what it looks like to lead with prayer, that we could have joy and suffering that we could experience the presence of Jesus in our lives that we can go and have helpful postures like being on our knees or opening our hands, releasing things to the Lord that through crisis and difficulty that we could pray that we could grow up and, and have a prayer culture that we can model and then multiply it
out not just with our staff, but also with the people that we work with all around the world through what we're doing. So thank you for this conversation. I think it was enlightening and helpful. There's practicals in it. So it was well done. I really enjoyed it. So thank you.
I thoroughly enjoyed it as well. Thank you so much.