Hello, my name is Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud
or the Order, Kernie Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow.
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She's on the Money, She's on the Money. Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Most of us carry some sort of trauma with us. It could be from our childhood, maybe a past relationship, or really any significant experience that has caused us ongoing pain. The word trauma is often used to describe very painful and extreme situations that mark our universal human struggle, and this is no different when
it comes to money. On today's episode of She's on the Money, we are talking about a lesser known, but very prevalent trauma and it is, of course financial trauma. My name is Georgia King, and joining me as always is Victoria define V.
How High.
Hello, Georgia King. I am not excited, but I'm looking forward to this because I feel like financial trauma has for a very long time not been recognized as as legitimate as other types of trauma, when it absolutely is. So I really am looking forward to sharing this and I hope that don't hope that people relate to it. I hope that it validates some people's experiences so that they know that they're not alone on this one.
It's not something we've spoken about on the podcast before. It's not really a term I've heard of at all, to be honest, So I am super excited to dive into it and hear what it is all about. You've got some.
Stats, I doo.
I've taken your job as stats gal. Obviously really looking forward to diving deep on this one. Financial trauma is obviously very common, sadly, and makes total sense as money is very easily linked to our sense of security, our safety, our status, and our power. And a survey that was conducted by Payoff in twenty nineteen found that one in three millennials suffer from acute financial stress also known as AFS, and the point of this episode is to shine a light and validate people who.
Are experiencing this.
Fortunately, we are living in a time where conversations around mental health are thankfully becoming increasingly more open and common, and we are understand danning how better to deal with and identify these painful experiences with less stigma win. Financial trauma is one we hear about all the time in our community. Not so much coinned by that term, but the experiences that a lot of our community have had
or shared with us. I would absolutely categorize as fitting into the financial trauma space, and it's often one that manifests in our actions and attitudes towards money. It often goes unnoticed or is passed off as logical or reasonable behavior, which is absolutely not the case.
All right, V, I'm going to throw two really common terms out there for us to chew over. First is retail therapy and the second is tight US. Oh yeah, And I bring these up because they come up all the time. We flippantly use them all the time.
She's a tight US.
I mean you probably when people are talking about George, But does.
That tie in to financial trauma and anyway.
Ah, look, yes and no, maybe retail therapy is your thing. And when you're feeling down, you can't control the urge to splurge.
See what I did?
There?
Need that dopamine hit, I get it. I'm going to do a whole episode really soon g on emotional spending because I feel like that's a topic that we need to discuss as well, because things like quote shopping addictions ha ha ha actually are really serious and they actually do impact people's mental health, and they actually do have an emotional connection that we need to delve deeper into because they're not funny and they're not things that we
should flippantly laugh about and be the reason why we're bad at money, Like it's not okay. And then when we look at the term tighters, maybe you are tight with money to the point where it takes up all your energy and all your brain space and you can't part with money without intense anxiety. That's a completely different thing than the way I flippantly throw it at you.
George.
I call you that because you're just a really good saver and good at managing your own values and beliefs around money, and it's kind of funny in that contraxt So I think it's interesting to see both sides of that because I know you deeply enough to know that that's not an issue. Whereas if you threw that term around someone who genuinely was suffering pretty severe money anxiety,
that just might perpetuate it. And we need to be really careful, George, because as much as some people use it really flippantly, these terms can impact you if you are experiencing really significant financial stress or financial trauma, and you never know.
Okay, speaking of financial stress versus financial trauma, are they two different things?
They are very very different things.
Stress can be used to motivate us, like put a little bit of pressure on me to organize podcast recording because it's tomorrow.
I'm going to do it.
Stress drives me, guys, That's fine.
I've seen it that many times. That's manageable stress.
However, sometimes that extends beyond being a motivator and becomes very detrimental to someone's life. Whereas trauma can shut down our ability to take helpful action in time highly and it usually.
Stems from a traumatic experience.
Financial stress might be like, oh, just get a bit stressed when I organize my budget. You doing budgeting if you have significant trauma in your history is a different topic completely. G So financial stress is something everybody experiences.
We all have it.
Life is expensive and how wages often don't match the things that we want. This can cause emotional and physical distress and can be ongoing through life at various different stages and different levels. And then financial trauma is characterized
as a dysfunctional reaction to chronic financial stress. The indicators of financial trauma often really similar to those experienced by people with post traumatic stress disorder, which I find not surprising, but some of you might be like, Wow, I didn't realize.
It was so extreme. Yeah, and it is.
They manifest in several different areas of a person's life. They often prevent them from ever feeling successful, safe, or it ease when money is concerned. It doesn't take a long period of stress around money to ingrain financial trauma, and it's easily passed down from generation to generation as unconscious belief systems.
So does this have a lot to do with our money stories? And where is kind of come from?
Yeah, so part of your money story could be financial trauma if you think about it, it makes sense like, if you've got financial trauma in your money story, that's something you need to work through and really recognize, because trauma is going to, in any sense of the word, impact your life if you don't address it.
Actually. On that v my next point was that epigenetics, so that's the study of your behaviors and the environment and how that can cause changes and affect the way your genes work. That actually tells us that trauma can be passed down generationally. So should we be looking at financial trauma in the same way.
Yes, absolutely, I mean it's not ingrained in your genes in the same way that epigenetics is. However, your parents' thoughts, values, beliefs around money are what you grew up with. Your parents, your caretaker, whoever brought you up, or whoever you were exposed to as a child, is going to have some level of impact on you. If you grew up in a really wealthy household and money was never an issue, maybe you don't get that pit in the bottom of
your stomach when money comes up. But if you grew up in a household where money was scarce and mum and dad argued all the time, over what they could and couldn't afford and put some guilt on you, George when you said you wanted to do dance lessons but
they couldn't afford it. Maybe now, as an adult, when you want to do anything for yourself, you harbor a lot of guilt and a lot of anxiety when it comes to making decisions for yourself or treating yourself, because every time you've ever tried to treat yourself, it's been met with negativity. Whereas a completely flip example of this is, you know, maybe mum and Dad had really tight budgets and didn't have enough money, but they were really positive
about it, and they really taught you. All right, g which don't have lots of money, but it's a tool, and we use this tool to create the life we want. And you go, I really want to go to dance lessons. They go, all right, Gee, unfortunately we can't do that right now.
Have a look at the budget. You understand it.
As a child, you don't harbor the same amount of trauma because of the way it's been dealt with, so absolutely it can be passed down.
Gee. Was their bankruptcy growing up?
Was their shame around unemployment, was their detachment or complete refusal to discuss money as a family. Maybe you had an urge to jump in and pay for other people when it wasn't expected and you just can't afford it. That could actually be part of your trauma story. It's bigger than what you might think it is.
Okay, Obviously, emotions are really closely tied to our financial choices. We talk about all the time. So if we try and take our emotion out of it, just crunching the numbers and coming up with a strict budget that makes sense and gives us that clarity, is that going to help us solve the problem? Or Okay, sorry, sorry, you can't do that might be there.
I mean, if you would like to do a budget, there is a free budget on my website. You can go and download. Absolutely no catch, go organize your finances. I actually really want you to. However, when it comes to financial trauma and dealing with it, just budgeting is not enough.
We need a holistic approach.
And I know you know that I love a budget and number crunching, but we really need to be paying attention to these feelings and considering why they actually exist in the first place. You won't be free even with a budget and different formulas if you're carrying unconscious trauma, because at the end of the day, it's going to work against your best interests. I could sit you down with a budget, g doesn't change anything unless we know our money story.
So probably a counselor. But we will be talking about ways that we can work through our financial trauma on the other side of the break, and we'll be talking about plenty more. So don't go anywhay, guds.
V.
Let's dive straight back in. Can you please provide some really clear signs of financial trauma?
All right?
So the first sign of financial trauma, i'd say is financial avoidance. Yep. So this could look like not opening bills, not interacting with bookkeeping as a business owner, or avoiding any and all types of conversations around finance. This year is linked inherently as humans to our fight, flight, freeze or faun response, and at its most intense level, its dissociation.
So from my perspective, G, this response makes a lot of sense for someone whose relationship to money is paired with intense feelings if fear or pain or insecurity, and they can come from any experience. So there's no categorization of what the trauma has to be to mean that you experience it same as other types of trauma. Like one thing to one person might have a completely separate outcome as another. There's no that was trauma or this wasn't.
These are the feelings And if that's how you're feeling about an outcome or a circumstance or an experience in your life, then you are carrying trauma regardless of what it is. I really hate when people compare it and say, oh, but someone else has it worse, Like that is not how this community works.
Like everybody's concerned.
Everybody's experiences are valid and you are more than welcome to feel your feelings. Even if someone over the other side of the world or even across the other side of the room has had to arguably quote worse experience.
That doesn't invalidate the feelings that you have.
Yeah, one of the things we talk about a lot in the community is compulsive spending and over spending. Could they also be signs of financial trauma?
Of course they could be.
So this could look like anything from spending too much money on eating out or splurging on major purchases with money that you don't have, which I think can be really common. I used to do it. I was carrying a level of financial trauma. I got through it because I worked through my money story and have decided to repivot that and change. If you're someone who is struggling with that, it's really important to do some internal reflection.
And I know it can be really hard asking yourself why you might be doing that spending because you're trying to sue the pain that you haven't recognized, or maybe you're a little bit like me in that you chase a dopamine hit. So, as you guys know, I've spoken about it on the podcast before, I have ADHD. I chase dopamine hits, love spending money. That's why I have to be so clear about my budget and cash flow and be on top of that because otherwise it will
get out of control. So obviously I love a dopamine hit. George, which aghd person do you know that doesn't love a dopamine hit? But basically the response of overspending can stem from the common narratives around money in dominant cultures. For example, if you ever feel bored or sad or lonely or inadequate, something's wrong with you, or you need to fix it right away, and you can do that by buying something or consuming something like that seems to be a pretty
common response, right, not feeling good about myself? Do you know how I'll make myself feel good. I'm going to go buy a nice new outfit that'll make me look good, and then I'll feel good. That is the ment behind a lot of overspending. In many ways, overspending can actually be a form of financial avoidance, even though you're spending, because consumption is a really temporary way to deal with pain while avoiding the reality of your bigger financial picture.
How do you know if it's financial trauma or if you're just being financially careless?
Though, I think the difference is around how we went back to the stress, the anxiety, the dissociation, the feeling of not wanting to address those things. I think you'd pretty clearly be able to say after listening to some of this podcast, Oh, yeah, I'm just not across my budget and I just I don't care to. Yeah, I'm actually burying my head in this hand. And when I go shopping. That's one of my coping mechanisms. I think there's a very different feeling to those things, and you
might not be able to directly identify it. And if that's you, I think we need to sit down and have a little bit of a think about why do I do the things that I do? Where is this coming from? Why am I over You know, there's lots of reasons why people overspend. I mentioned ADHD before. Neurodivergent people are very good at overspending. It's got nothing to do with financial trauma and everything to do with the most neurodivergent people are actually chasing more dopamine hits than.
The average bear.
So there are lots of different reasons as to why you could overspend. But I think we need to look back at what I said in the first half of the episode that financial trauma is characterized as a dysfunctional reaction to chronic financial stress. We're not just a little bit stressed, it's chronic. It's really really bad.
So with that said, VI, I feel like what I'm garnering is that a lot of this stuff is compulsive. It's not just I love shopping on the weekend. It's a real drive that you can't fight am I right?
Is that?
Yeah? Yeah, Like when we talk about overspending, there's just a lot to it. Obviously, it could be symp trauma. It's just one of the indicators. However, when we talk about compulsive spending, compulsive spence could be likened to an addiction, like someone compulsively uses drugs or compulsively goes to the pokies. It's not something that they feel like they can control. It's not just like ha ha ha, I just bought a new dress. I can't control myself. Like, no, that's
not it. And we actually really need to be quite serious about these topics because as much as it's you know, a little bit of fun to buy address that cheeky shouldn't have bought on a Friday night to go out with the girls, that's not compulsive spending.
Yeah, Okay. On the flip side of compulsive spending, V is compulsive under spending a thing?
Yes, absolutely, it is a thing.
I mean it's probably not a coined term, but we
are going to coin it right here now. But a severe lack of spending, even when the money is available, can also be a really big indicator of financial trauma, excessive risk, aversion is connected with fear and scarcity around money, and that could actually stem from someone having experiences in life where money was really tight and that now causes fear intrepidation around space, and that can be crippling because you might be putting off spending you have to make.
So I know of circumstances where people literally put off spending money on their rent because they just feel such an anxiety of having that money go out of their bank, even though they've got more than sufficient funds. They refuse to go to the supermarket and buy a healthy diet because they're so anxious about spending money. Like we're not talking here about hahaha, I don't spend money, and I am a little bit anxious sometimes because I'm trying to say for a house.
We're talking this is crippling.
And I think that those are the terms that we need to keep in mind and not just flippantly go, oh, well, I have some financial trauma and use that as a brace to justify your spending habits.
Yeah.
I think that's one of the things worth pointing out, is that trauma can be a word that's really overused in twenty twenty two. So I think clarifying that this is a real yeah quotation marks thing that people are dealing with is important because I think think a lot of people might look at this episode and be like, financial trauma, heard it all, but this is really legitimate.
No, I agree, and I would summarize this here. I know you've got some more questions, but if you have financial trauma, I genuinely believe you need some level of therapy, Like you need to go and work through those things. And often the same with all other trauma. Often it's not something you can work through on your own because it's not just a little bit stressed and I can grab a stressful and work it out, like that's something
that actually requires some deep work and that's hard. And you know, plugging right here our debt free hotline friends, they are the perfect resource because they're.
Free financial counseling.
You don't have to be up to your eyeballs in debt to reach out to a financial counselor. It could just be stress and anxiety and not feeling like you can get on top of your money, or you're really not sure what you want to say to a financial counselor. But you just listen to this episode and it's resonating. Maybe start the conversation there.
We will get to some more solution if you are someone who's struggling, So hang around to the end of the show for that, and we will, of course links course. But how important would you say healthy boundaries around money are when it comes to this stuff.
Very regardless of whether you have financial trauma or not. I think that there always should be healthy boundaries around money. In fact, we're talking offline about our future show episodes, and I said, let's do a financial red flags when dating, because I genuinely think from the very start of any relationship we need to have healthy boundaries and we need to be able to identify what that actually looks like
and what a red flag looks like if it comes up. So, from my perspective, having a lack of boundaries or a discomfort with setting boundaries around finances really looks like undercharging if you're a business owner I'm talking directly to you, or under earning and not being willing to negotiate your own salary, not negotiating for rages is yourself is actually an indicator that you're not playing seeing from my perspective, enough value on yourself. Not making clear payment terms on
contracts is another indicator. People will go into business without clear contracts around the working relationship that they have. And while it can be uncomfortable for anyone to navigate money conversations, let's be honest. A repeated lack of boundaries around finance can be an indicator. But there might be some trauma that's present that is stopping you from standing in your power and advocating for what you need in that relationship.
And this could stem from learned mindsets that put a cap on your perceived worth and prevent you from believing that you actually deserve more. So all of that, to me is really important. But healthy boundaries around money are always a priority in this house.
All right, let's finish off today's show V by talking through what we can do if we are struggling with the repercussions of financial trauma. Where do we start?
So, just like any other form of trauma, financial trauma has a whole host of recons sources that you can lean on to help you throw it. It needs to be brought into the light and given far more time and space though, So that's what we're hoping to do with this podcast and it needs to be unviced and challenged and soothed. So here are some things that you can do I mentioned before. Get some counseling, Go see
a psychologist. If you're in a circumstance where you're able to pay for that advice fantastic, Head to your GP talk to them about a mental health care plan.
If you're in a.
Bit of a financially constrained circumstance, still, head to a GP bul billing GP talk to them about a mental health care plan and get a bulk billing psychologist. That will mean that you will get a minimum of six but according to and I'm pretty sure this is still true up to twenty sessions because of COVID with a psychologist that will literally be bulk built, and that can be really helpful. When you're feeling triggered, notice what's happening with your body, and use your sense is to regulate
your nervous system. So this is something that I do might help you. But breathe, focus on your sensitive smell and the space you're in, and ground yourself. Something I find really helpful, especially if I'm quite stressed, is to just go on YouTube and look up grounded breathing exercise, and there are a whole heap of free videos that you can just do and follow along. I don't expect everyone to know how to ground themselves, but if you're feeling a bit panicked or a bit stressed, that can
help a lot. Separate yourself from this narrative. So if it's like I'm bad with money or I'm horrible with money because I have credit cards, it's okay, it's all right. I can see where you're coming from. But let's separate ourselves from the narrative that our money story defines us, because it doesn't. Our money story happened to us.
Great.
Do you know what we can't do change that? Do you know what we can do change the future? We can put ourselves in a better circumstance. We can rewrite generational trauma, we can read write generational money habits and thoughts and values and beliefs. But we actually have to put in a bit of work to do that.
And we need to change the story we tell ourselves. Right, because that happens, it's exactly so many different.
Areas of our lives. You're just exactly it's a self flieling prophecy.
We also just need to change the language, like, oh, I'm horrible with money because I have credit card debt.
No you're not.
Have you learned how to do money before? No, I'd argue you haven't because there's no financial literacy program taught in schools in Australia. Most parents have not sat their kids down and taught them the basis of financial literacy. It's a product of your upbringing, not of your intelligence. And I think that if we can just go, well, I have a credit card and I'm going to get out of it because I'm smart enough to do that, fantastic. Let's reframe and rewrite that narrative do things as well,
quite gently. But explore your own story, maybe journaling or writing, or letting the subconscoes stumble out onto paper without any type of regulation. You're not writing for somebody else. You're writing for your self so that you can understand it. You can rip the paper up later, you can hide it, you can burn it, you can do whatever you want, flash it down the toilet if you're worried about people seeing it. But I think that that can actually be quite a soothing process to get things out.
It helps to organize your thoughts.
It's definitely yeah, it can't be positive affirmations.
I think we love important.
We love that, and then forgive yourself and be kind.
Like, if you can't be kind to.
Yourself, how are other people going to know how to be kind to you. I think it's just be kind always, but be kind in particular to yourself.
So that's all I've got, George.
Brilliant and as you said earlier, like not comparing your trauma to anyone else's and if you are feeling rubbish, own that and don't feel like you can't feel that way because the way you feel is valid. As you said, absolutely it is. As we flagged earlier as well. We will be linking to the National Debt helpline in the show notes fevers or anything you wanted to add before we head off.
Nope, I think that is all we have time for today, my friend. So if you could just wrap the boring but important stuff, it would be.
Appreciated with pleasure, my girl. The advice shared on She's on the Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to
make an investment or a financial decision. Victoria Divine and She's on the Money are authorized representatives of in Focused Securities Australia Proprietary Limited ABN for seven zero nine seven seven nine seven zero four nine afosal two through six five two three.
We will see it on Friday. Guys by Yourself