Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr
the Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow.
Let's get into it. She's on the Money.
She's on the Money. Hello and welcomed. She's on the Money the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Today's episode is the third in a series of conversations we're having that look at the true costs of health care in Australia. You started a few weeks back looking at the cost of care for some of the most common illnesses and conditions with Rhiann and Tracy, and two weeks ago we looked at the cost of mental health care. So welcome to our third episode where we are looking
at the cost of another very common illness, cancer. Unfortunately, Victoria Divine is with us, h I V.
Unfortunately Victoria is with us or unfortunately this is the top. I'm not sure what you're it's very seriously, it is the tone of your voice. We're saying that it was unfortunate that I'm joining you today.
I meant that mostly, but no, it is very unfortunate that it is quite a common illness, cancer that we are talking about today.
I couldn't agree more. And I actually really wanted to do this series because I really wanted our community to avoid any nasty surprises when it comes to the financial impact of unexpected health problems. I feel like it something that we just don't talk enough about, and I mean as Australians with a lucky country, right like, I think everybody just seems to have this mentality of it'll never happen to me, and unfortunately that's not the case. So
it's something I have seen unfortunately far too often. I think because I worked so deeply in the financial advice space, you I guess have the privilege of working with clients and establishing their insurances, but you also have I won't call it a burden because it's honestly you feel so at the time, you're so upset for the family, but you're also just so grateful that you can be there for them and actually provide support and actually instigate something
that's going to put them in a significantly better position. But you just see it so much more often than you think you would. And we're having these conversations, right because obviously I'm obsessed with insurance, but I also think the best type of insurance is the one you never have to claim on, because that means that you're perfectly healthy, Beck and you never needed it. Like I've said it so many times, I want your insurance to be a
waste of money. Yeah, I want you to look back on it in fifty years and be like, oh my gosh, I absolutely put all of those premiums that I was paying straight in the trash. It was like shredding money. I would love for you to say that, because that means in the fifty years that you had that premium enforced, you didn't have to claim on it. Nobody can predict that though, right, Like if we could predict that, one, I'd be real rich. But also two, I just think
it's one of those things that you can't predict it. Yes, genetics comes into it, but obviously, so much of the cancer world is unforeseen. Ongoing advancements in the diagnosis and treatment of disease have seen our lifetime expectancy increase in increasing increase. Beck Like it is wild. Like they now say that there is somebody walking this earth. They're probably really young today because it's definitely not your eye with
the way we've lived our life. But there is somebody walking the earth today that is going to live to the age of one hundred and fifty. Isn't that crazy? Oh my god, it's crazy about our life expectancy has gone up and up, and I mean that's not the average when we talk about one fifty, but like that's going to happen at some point in someone on this planet's lifetime, isn't While.
Yeah, would you actually want to be around that long? I feel like it's going to get boring.
I don't know. I think it's it's funny because we used to have this debate. I used to have a group of friends and we'll just be very existential about our lives, and I just I don't think I want to live forever, Like unless absolutely everybody was living a
lot longer. I don't know. I remember having this conversation with my grandpa who got to ninety four, and I was quite young when he passed away, but I was like, you're so old, like obviously had absolutely no common sense at that point to not be rude to my elders,
but I'm so old. And he said, yeah, but you know I'm I'm old and my time will come soon kind of vibe and I can't remember word for word war it was, but he said, I never thought that being old would be this lonely because every single person around him had passed away, like my grandma had passed away a few years before, and all of his friends, Like all he did was go to his friend's funerals, like they became the outings that he was going to.
And ninety four is a really good innings, Like it's so epic, but it's so upsetting to think that alongside getting that old, you go through so much sadness as well. And I just I don't think I want that. No, I don't want to consistently see the people around me leave.
I know that's actually that's actually very devastating.
So moving back to the topic, Beck We're seeing more and more people live with cancer rather than pass away from it and serious health conditions, and the cost of burden on our health care system has been growing. So we actually really need to know what this means for us and our loved ones, because as technology improves, it means that more tax payer dollars are going to healthcare, which is honestly, from my if, an absolute privilege to fund.
But at the same time, it's not endless. Yeah, like it comes to a cap, things have to be allocated. We have to have these conversations about what is fair, how do we protect ourselves even when it comes and I mean this is a completely separate side topic, but even when it comes to the pension, like how many people can be on the pension before they can't afford
to give the pension anymore? And with our rising population and the increase in life expectancy, like, how are we actually planning for this as a country if people aren't in a position, especially right now we're in the middle of a cost of living crisispect like how many of us are actually investing for our future? What does that look like? Like it's not just scary on an individual level, it's scary on a holistic community level because what's gonna happen?
Yeah, it is so scary. I would recommend anyone listening to this. If you haven't listened to the last two episodes in this series, please do go back and listen. They are really interesting. But I don't think you have to listen to them in any specific order.
Just is not who just isn't really talking about specific topics in this series, but they don't link together.
Yeah, exactly. So the I guess, could you take us through what is a snapshot of the prevalence of cancer in Australia. So we have gone back to the research in the ZERI Cost of Care Report, and as I've said before, I really love the data in this report. Cancer beck represents nineteen percent of the disease burden here in Australia and it's one of the most financially impactful. One in three Australian men and one in four Australian women will be diagnosed with some type of cancer before
they turn seventy five. Wow, that's a lot.
Prostate cancer is the most prevalent, followed by breast cancer, bowel cancer and melanoma. Australia has the second highest prevalence of melanoma in the entire world.
Wow.
Five year survival rates range from sixteen percent flood cancer to ninety five percent for prostate cancer.
Oh well, ninety survival rate for prostate cancer is actually not bad.
It's actually epic. And I'm pretty sure the data, which is not in front of me at the moment, has said that over the last twenty five years that has increased significantly because people are more likely to go to
their gps to get niggles and things checked. And I mean lots of people have prostates, but particular I mean the stereotype of men not wanting to go to the GP would play into this, and I think that's being broken down and more people are more comfortable to seek medical advice when they're like, oh, this just doesn't seem right. If it doesn't seem right, just get checked, yeap, Just go and have a chat with your GP, like my GP,
and I hey, Greg, BFF, like I check everything. And I don't even think I'm being a hypochondriac in this circumstance. I think I'm just you know, Okay, well, I'll just pop that on my list of things that next time. At the GP I want to check, and I go, oh, if I haven't been to the GP in a while, Like, I think about whether I need it, and if there was anything on my list of things I need to get checked. I'm not someone who every week is like, oh my gosh, I need to go to the doctor.
But I think it's just so important to be on top of your own health because that plays into so many different areas of your life. And as we have been talking about over the last couple of weeks, your health is directly linked to your ability to produce an income. Yeah, so financially it makes sense to look after your health. Yeah, that makes so much sense. So if you're not caring about yourself in the way that you should, one, you should.
But two, there's money at stake, so let's let's look at that side.
Yeah, exactly. If nothing else will motivate you, money certainly will and hopefully should literally. And they also say prevention is the best cure.
Two.
True, you know that's not for every case.
But they also say an apple a day keeps the doctor. I don't I know what that you Confessedly, where's that come from?
I mean, I think if that was the only thing we had to do, I would be eating apples all the time.
This podcast in the business category, though not the medical category. So take what you wish you eversation.
You can start eating apple a day if few weeks is really good. They're very good. They're so very good.
Have you had a jazz apple before?
Oh I'm not a jazz fan. Yeah, Grannie Smith or pink Lady who eats Grannie Smith apples?
All right? Back onto the topic. Because you're rogue and wrong.
It seems just judging by everyone, very wrong.
What the hecking?
Now?
Back on topic. Although healthcare in Australia is largely publicly funded, out of pocket costs associated with cancer diagnosis and treatment and survival can place a huge burden on sufferers in their families. So v what sort of things are people having to pay for? Lots of things?
Right?
So GPS and specialist gap payments GPS. We have been having these conversations consistently in our community about how lots of GPS aren't offering bulk billing anymore. So I feel like this cost is just going to increase over time. Scans or tests outside the public system. Over the counter medications for pain relief and other purposes like pain and you are consistently trotting down to chemist warehouse to get
your advil. Like that adds up. Those things add up, complementary medicines or therapies, medical devices, treatment related travel and accommodation. Just because you're going through a circumstance that is traumatic does not mean you have access to close care. And sometimes the best care is actually in a different state. Like I grew up in Tasmania and the Tasmanian healthcare system is beautiful. Please don't get me wrong about that.
But the amount of family members that I have had that have had to fly to different states to get medical procedures done, necessary medical procedures we're not talking about, like elective surgeries, is wild. Like it blows my mind that sometimes you actually have to leave the state to get the best care in a particular area. I'm not saying anything bad about the healthcare system in Tasi. It is great. As long as you haven't watched maths and haven't got an idea of what the nurses are. I
can promise the nurses in my family in Tasmania. Elate, you're talking about yet wild?
I was kind of a fan.
What do you mean you were kind of a fan.
I don't know something about it.
You just like the drama.
I like the drama, and you know she's not hard on the eye. I'm not gonna go.
Okay, all right, no worries.
If you're listening to this, I love you so much. All right, Okay, moving on on.
There's also things like personal care, right, like if you need to manage stuff like ULCs that you get during radiotherapy, like you're going to be buying things that help you with that. Things add up. But it's also you know, not I don't know. I just I feel like those are the things that you and I can quantify. What about the time off work? What about the cost of the carers that are looking after you to take and you'll leave days. What about the impact to you progressing
in your career. You're not going to be focusing on progressing in your career if there's something more serious going on, and that makes absolute sense. But at the end of the day, that is a setback. Yeah, and we need to talk about that. So there's just lots that go into it.
Yeah, definitely. Now I wanted to ask, and it's probably going to be really depressing answer, but it will be what are some of the average lifetime costs for people with different types of cancers?
Yeah, so before we go through this, obviously this is the recorded stuff from this report, and after our beautiful conversation with my friend Rann and Tracy who talked about her experience, we know it's much more than this. So she is a quadriplegic, and she said it's in the eleven million dollar disability and she reckons it's worth more than that, Like that's just the bare minimum. So keep
that in mind while they go through these numbers. Okay, So the average lifetime cost for prostate cancer is thirty six eight hundred dollars, Breast cancer is thirty six thousand and forty dollars. Our cancer is fifty one thousand, four hundred and sixty dollars, melanoma. Skin cancer is twenty thousand, three hundred and sixty dollars. Lung cancer is seventy four thousand, six hundred dollars. Non Hodgkins lymphoma, she's getting pricey eighty
seven thousand, five hundred dollars years. Head, neck and thyroid cancers ninety five thousand, four hundred and sixty dollars, kidney cancer sixty three thousand, two hundred and twenty dollars, and uterine cancer is forty six thousand and thirty dollars.
Oh my gosh, I knew it was going to be depressing. That is a lot of money. And I can't even fell them having like Wetty Star. That's insane.
It's insane. It's also like to me, I think it makes sense, like in terms of the impact and the longevity of things like as we heard before, we said that the five year survival rate for prostate cancer was ninety five percent, and that cancer was on the lower scale, so that was thirty six thousand, eight hundred, So that's a lot. That's a lot of money.
We are not downplaying that for any moment, but often if identified earlier, it can be gotten rid of and you can return to life as usual. Something like headneck, and thyroid cancers, which had the cost of ninety five, four hundred and sixty dollars as an average lifetime cost, often aren't identified as early as a prostate cancer. Really,
So like there's lots that go into these numbers. There's different levels of care, there's different types of surgeries, and different types of you know, radiation and chemotherapy and things that go into this.
But that's just so much money that we just don't have back.
Yeah yeah, unfortunately, so V what are the sorts of numbers that we're looking at when it comes to dollars for drugs and treatment and also what cancer sufferer is willing to actually pursue for treatment.
Yeah, so I guess again, I want to before answering this, just really acknowledge our privilege, Like this is so much money. I don't want people to think that we're complaining about these costs though, because if we look around the world, I guess, competing healthcare systems, these things send people into debt.
The average cost of cancer in America is like a million dollars whoa because of the type of treatment and everything is out of pocket, Like that is a u cost if you don't have health care through your job, which is again is an absolute privilege. And as we know, like if you don't have health care, you're probably the type of person that probably can't afford to pay the out of pocket fees because you're not a full time employee. And that's not a judgment, that is just the fact
of the matter. Often health care comes with those higher level white collar jobs, right like you hear about it all the time, or I do on TikTok because I'm on like the HR side of TikTok and it's like so juicy. I don't know if anybody else I don't know, I don't know. I'm also on I think I've told you this before, Utah Mum TikTok.
I've told you this.
Have I told you this?
Sounds familiar?
Yep?
So in Utah, lots of them are Mormons, and I'm adoring learning about how they live their lives and how much they are obsessed with diet coke. And I told you about how I ordered those line packets. Well we've upgraded. I have become a Utah mum. I bought the Stanley cup that they have. And you're not going to know
what I'm talking about because they're not crazy. But there are going to be people listening to this podcast that are shaking their heads and they're like, no, you didn't, Victoria, No you didn't.
We want phonus.
I will put it on Instagram, but we'll leave this conversation there. But it is an absolute privilege to have the numbers we have. I mean, they could be better. There are definitely better healthcare systems around the world, but there are definitely worse ones that could absolutely destroy you.
Beck.
So jumping back on that, Beck, the average cost paid by the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme or the PBS, which I seem to be struggling to get out today per anti cancer prescription has increased far in excessive inflation and is currently seven hundred and eighty six dollars. Pharmaceutical companies can spend up to two billion dollars developing new cancer treatments, and then patients using drugs not supported by the PBS can face bills of up to five thousand dollars a
month jeez, a month or more. Individuals who are facing an uncertain future will seek any source of hope, even if the efficacy of the treatment is unclear. And people who live outside major cities have seventeen times the odd of reporting locational or financial barriers to care compared to those living in metropolitan areas, isn't that wild? Like, I know that makes sense, and I mentioned it before, and
I guess that's why because we look into it. But it's just you can't access it because you either can't get there you can't afford to get there.
That's really scary, so unfair. I know it's unfair. It's scary, and it's pretty devastating. So the big focus of our previous episodes has been the hidden cost and careers who are family members or friends and they often don't get looked at. So what do we know about the cost to caregivers of people with cancer?
Yeah, so the average overall cost to the household is estimated at forty eight thousand dollars. Jeez, that's like an annual salary for some people. Around seventy two percent of cancer cares report a negative financial impact of caring, and more than half of cares who work full time need to take leave or reduce their working hours. Around one point three million hours of informal care are provided to individuals with cancer each year. Wow, it's a lot of hours.
That is it's a lot of unpaid hours.
Yes, that is exactly right.
That's unacceptable.
It's unacceptable. I feel like this is a really good moment to jump to a quick break and come straight back and see you guys on the other side. Okay, V we are back and we are talking about the cost of cancer in Australia, the third in this series breaking down how much healthcare really costs in this country. So v I wanted to ask about some more detail now on more common types of cancer. You mentioned process cancer. Yeah,
that's the most common, that's the most common. Yeah, so let's look at that one first, I.
Suppose, all right. So, as we mentioned at the top of the episode, the average cost or the average lifetime cost is thirty six eight hundred dollars. Seventy percent of people diagnosed with prostate cancer reports spending more on cancer treatment than they had expected, and the average out of pocket cost of care for prostate cancer treatment in newly diagnosed patients was eleven thousand and seventy seven dollars in the first year and ranged from two hundred and fifty
bucks all the way up to thirty thousand dollars. Spending was largely on things like specialist fees, hospital services, medical equipment and supplies. In medicine, one in four people stopped working as a result of their diagnosis, and out of those who retired, most had done so four to five years earlier than they had actually planned to do so.
Right Okay, that would I imagine cost a lot in itself.
Yeah, exactly. That's five years of not investing. That's five years of not saving. That's five years I won't say behind, but that's five years that you didn't get further ahead than you thought you were going.
Sure, yeah, absolutely, it's a lot. So let's talk next about breast cancer.
So the average cost, as we said earlier, is thirty six thousand and forty dollars. I really want to know, like the this specific breakdowns of where they got that additional forty bucks from. It's not just thirty six thousand, thirty six thousand and forty dollars.
Yeah, I'm curious about that.
Very specific, but major contributors to the out of pocket costs for breast cancer breast reconstructive surgery, which can be optional, that ranges between two thousand, nine hundred and fifty seven dollars to nine thousand, four hundred and seventy two dollars. Radiotherapy between seventeen hundred and fifty one to two thousand, one hundred and one dollars. Pathology tests. I didn't see this one coming. So is going get a blood test? Right?
Blood like pathology? Yeah, and like obviously not just blood tests, but like sending like bits of tissue off to the lab to be sampled and stuff. I just didn't realize how expensive it was. That's between thirty five hundred dollars and four thousand, two hundred and fifty bucks. Ohoh, that's
a lot, right. I just thought radiotherapy would be the more expensive one out of those two, right, true genetic testing so that's between seven hundred and seventy four dollars and twelve hundred and fifty one dollars, and MRIs they're between four hundred and fifty one and fifteen hundred and fifty four dollars. So those are a lot of costs.
Yeah, and I suppose so some of them, Like the genetic testing I only recently discovered that's for like to see if it will come back and to see if it's in the family in a way.
Yeah, And with breast cancer there's a specific type of gene and you can do some genetic testing like today if you don't have breast cancer and see if you carry that gene, and if you do, the likelihood of you developing breast cancer is incredibly high, so you can do something about it and like work out what that looks like and that gene is genetic. Yeah, okay, if your mum has it, you should be getting tested. And
I think that that should be true of everybody. I always think that if something's going on in your family and you carry the same genes, Like we were talking about prostate cancer before, like if you also have a prostate, you probably should get that checked, just to be on the safe side, right, Like, if something's happening to them, don't think, Okay, well that's happening to them, it will never happen to me. Like, just be more active about these things. Yeah, like just be on top of it. Again,
similar to insurance. I'd love that to be a waste of your time. Yeah, I would really love that.
Yeah, I completely agree. Now let's look at bow cancer NEX.
Yeah. So the average lifetime costs for bow cancer was fifty four hundred and sixty bucks and bow cancer is the second most common cause of death from cancer in Australia behind lung cancer. WHOA. Costs from bow cancer include those related to medical appointments, tests and treatments. People with suspected bow cancer may have initial investigations with a GP followed up by more in depth investigations by a specialist doctor. Overall survival rates for bow cancer are much lower than
other common cancers such as prostate and breast cancer. That's really sad, I because I think it's hits one of those things that they come up quite late.
Yeah, right, right right, And to my knowledge, I don't believe there's a lot of awareness, so maybe not enough awareness.
There's not enough awareness around band cancer at all. I've actually got a girlfriend who is a nurse at a clinic that does like colonoscopiece and endoscopies and stuff like that to check your digestive system. And the amount of people that she diagnoses with bow cancer or like, you know, she's not the diagnoso you know what I mean, she's in there and they find bow cancer is wild. But the other thing is a thing called polyps, and having polyps in your bow is an indicator that they could
turn into cancer. So you can actually get checked. And she said that so many people just think, oh, you know a little bit of blood am I still that was just normal, like it'll go away, it'll go away, and we just sweep it under the table, don't think about it. Because Honestly, it's not that comfortable to talk about pooh, right, but you just don't really want to talk about that doo. You're not going to bring it up with your partner. It's not that sexy. I get it.
But you really should be. You really should be having these conversations and if anything is a little bit off, talk g YOUGP. Yeah again, I would prefer you to get checked and have a polyp removed that your doctor's like, oh, it's just better to get rid of it in case it turned into boil cancer. Then have a really nasty conversation later down the track.
Yeah, absolutely, I love that. So this is a really good time for me. Ask me, what do you want people to take away from this episode?
Take care of your health please, but also being aware of these things and how they play into the necessity of insurance in Australia. But we know here in Australia we are the most underinsured country in the entire world because we've just got to should be right kind of attitude. And as much as that is beautiful, it is so nice, right this idea that we're like a little bit carefree, a little bit cool. We all sound like we go
Byron on the weekends. But unfortunately, it doesn't matter who you are, what your income is, what your social status is, what anything is in your life, you can and might be affected by these things. And I think that it's better to be educated than completely unaware. So I think it's all about please get the small things checked. There's no such thing as a silly question, especially in health. And I also think just make sure your insurances are
up to date. If you are somebody who has a superannuation fund, nine times out of ten you already have insurances that you are paying for. And I find it so wild that when I talk about insurances, people like it's not worth it. I'm like, baby, you already got it, Like you're already paying fees. You may as well have
somebody review it. Or you might review it to make sure you're actually getting bang for buck, because you might be spending two hundred bucks a year on something that does not cover you for anything that you want to be covered for, and that is a waste of your
money and a waste of your time. There is nothing more heartbreaking back and then being approached by someone this is historically my financial advice life, who was not my client who was like, I really need to talk to a financial advisor because I don't understand SUPER and my insurances. Need to claim on my insurance inside SUPER because I'm going through a significant health event. And you go, I
can't help you. You canceled that insurance because you said it wasn't worth it, or I can't help you because the claiming process is you know, it's not for a financial advisor to do. I can't help or I can't help you because of a multitude of different reasons, because it doesn't stack up because you didn't review it soon enough. So it might sound really harsh, but just do it, please, just do it. Yeah, it's a hygiene factor. Get it done.
Do it once, do it all right, check it again in five or ten years.
Yep.
It's not like an everyday thing. Please just don't be under insured. Absolutely sexy way to end this episode.
It really is. So take it away everyone, Thank you so much for listening to this one.
And we'll see you on Friday.
Guys, we'll see you on Friday. It so furday, have a good way.
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