Just before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and torrest Rate islander peoples. They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing and for caring for the land on which we are able to learn. We pay respects to elders past and present, and we share our friendship and our kindness.
She's on the Money, She's on the Money. Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. In twenty twenty, almost seventy nine thousand marriages were registered in Australia and over forty nine thousand divorces were granted. While we've dedicated an episode in the past to safeguarding our finances in the event of a divorce, one of the topics we yet to have
properly untangled is that of de facto relationships. What happens if I split with my partner who lives with me in the house that I own, How will my super be impacted should we split, and most importantly, how can I make sure my finances are protected? My name is Georgia King, and joining me to help answer these questions and plenty more is financial advisor Victoria Divine.
The Today we're.
Talking about the financial implications of de facto relationships. Why do you think we need to be talking more openly about this topic in a financial.
Context, because at the end of the day, ge de facto actually here in Australia nowadays has exactly the same rights that a married couple would have, but literally the name.
So I think it's really really important to have this conversation because unfortunately you could be accidentally de facto, Like that would be a really good podcast series, like accidentally de facto and it's talking about all these boys who were like not wanting to come in, but then you're living with them for like three years and you're like hashtag accidentally de facto.
Yeah, I love the accident to facto. What I don't know that we tried, you tried, thank you.
But at the end of the day, if you're legally married, or you're in a registered relationship, which is where you've literally gone and registered the relationship with the Registry of Birth, Deaths and Marriages, which did you know you could do that?
Bit you didn't know you could do that. Absolutely not No, you can register your relationship, but you could actually just be accidentally de facto and living with a partner and you just didn't know that that's how you were categorized until you break up and you realize, oh my gosh, I was de facto and I have these rights or vice versa. They come for you for something you oh, and you're like, no, we were never de facto, but
legally you were. So it can be a little bit scary, and being in a de facto relationship actually just means that you're in a relationship that is legally binding. That's a scary word when you make it that serious. Hey, I would say so, so g A de facto relationship is also legally binding in the event of a breakup, which is why we're talking about it today. And this means that you essentially have legal entitlements and rights if
your relationship ends. So we are here surprised to talk to you today about what that means, how that works, owning assets, getting rid of assets, getting rid of a partner if you don't want them, and how to protect yourself because from my perspective, that is the most important thing you can do for yourself financially.
Is de facto in quotetion marks the same in each state? Or do we have different definitions all over the shop?
Yes, sir, but the family law that actually governs de facto relationships are slightly different in WA. So I do apologize for all my friends over there. As always, you guys know that everything we say on this podcast is general advice, and if you're in this sticky situation, you need to get advice. But essentially the biggest difference is
around superannuation and being able to split that up. And in every state and territory except for WA, you are able to request half your partner super whereas in WA it's actually protected. So say you were married for like thirty years and then you go, you know what, we're going our separate ways. But you were a homemaker for that entire period of time and your partner was like, I don't know, fi fo and making bank and you know, has this epic superbalance that is more than enough to
set you both up for life and for retirement. You're actually not entitled to that, wild right?
Hang on? Hang on?
Was that WA or every other state? WA? Oh? Just Western Australia interesting, so every other state is up to date on it except for Western Australia. I mean, there's a case for that because some people would be like, my super yeah, it's mine, etc. Et cetera. But if you really want to get into the conversation about sacrifice, relationships are not all about financial contributions. It's about sacrifice and it's about equity exactly. Financial equity and equity isn't
just financial. And we did an entire podcast on this because I am wildly passionate about making sure that women in particular know their rights and also know what they're giving up. And this is why I'm so passionate about talking to you partner about well, are you going to contribute to my super while I'm or mattlee Because at the moment, matt leave doesn't include superannuation, So you're taking a step back so your family can take a step forward,
but you're taking a step back financially. When shouldn't that be a burden that both parties in the relationship carry.
So before we get into the thick of things, let's start by defining what de facto means, what types of de facto relationships exist? Fd in case you're accidentally de facto g correct monto. So, a de facto relationship is when two people who are probably in love but they don't have to be, but they're not married. They live together or they live together as a couple on a genuine domestic basis. As the definition is quite broad, and when there is actually a dispute over property, assets or
partner support, it goes to court. The court is actually going to look at a few things, and I think that's worthy of bringing up right here. So they'll look at one of three things. Firstly, that the couple was in a de fact relationship for at least two years or gee a child was born during their de facto relationship. They will also look at the couple having lived at least a third of their de facto relationship together in
Australia other than in Western Australia. Again, they have a few different rules and regulations, and the couple separated after the first of March two thousand and nine. Okay, new rules, weird flex but okay, family Court. So just to be really clear here, we're not talking housemates. There has to be some kind of romantic entanglements commitments, Yes.
And usually that's a sexual relationship. So there's a few things that they'll consider. They'll consider how long the relationship lasted, if you two lived together, and for how long you know. They might look at it and be like, mate, you had separate bedrooms, you didn't have sex, you had separate you know, lease agreements, etcetera, etcetera. You were basically housemates, So you're not going to fall into this trap with
your housemate. Don't get too scared. They will look at whether you were financially depend on each other and any other types of arrangements you might have had between the two of you for financial support. They might look at property and see how it was owned and also how it was used and how you came to own it.
So they might go, all right, well, G that came from an inheritance, or G. You owned that way before meeting them, or G. That person let you save while you lived together by them paying more rents so you could save for a property. So there are lots of different factors in the property ownership side of things. They will look at whether you had quote a commitment to a shared life together. They'll look at how you cared and supported for any children that you had, and they'll
also look at how other people saw your relationship. It's spasif how do they do that? So they actually might audit your social media. They can go through they can get photos of you together. In situations I've seen where people are applying for like residency here in Australia, I know they've been asked to prove their relationships because it's actually not uncommon for people to apply as like oh i'm her waf yeah ha ha haa, please let me
into the country, like prove it. So they might ask for pages and pages and pages of WhatsApp messages, or they might ask for photos of you together or anniversary photos, and most legitimate relationships gee have some kind of photographic or paper trail, like there's stuff you've done together. It might have been a webjet dot com don a you booking where you both just flying to Tazzi together, but that was like a trip you did together as a couple,
So it could be small. But they might actually go, hey, how'd your friends and family see that? Can we interview them? Because that happens, so we have skipped straight to the messy breakup here. But so being like hey, Georgia King, could you please come in and tell us how you saw Victoria and Steven's relationship. I would have glowing things to say, thank you, but you would tell them that we were in fact in a relationship, right or well,
I don't know what you would say. Maybe you'd be like, but I was in the relationship.
Hello, it's me exactly what I wanted to talk about here. V is something we talk about all the time that she's on the money. And that's how integral it is to have open and honest conversations with our partner. Absolutely, especially if we are in this de facto situation, this accidental, de facto situation, de facto exactly.
I'm bringing it. I'm getting on board with it. I'm not mad. So tell me more about why it's so important in this context. It's so important because you could be compromised at the end of the day. We need to be very clear about who owns what and when
and where. And I know that it's not a conversation you want to have, like no one wants to fall deeply in love and then have things questioned like no one expects to, you know, spend arguably, what's the average I think it's thirty six thousand dollars here in Australia is the average cost of a wedding. You don't spend that amount of money going you know what, I'm going to get married to g King, spend my thirty six grand and DIVORCEO three years later. That is never the intention.
So that's the thing that makes people feel a bit icky when they want to go, oh hey gee, so you know if we broke up, what would this mean? Like that should always be a conversation that you have. And I know it probably sounds like a bit too much, but it should be exactly how we approach conversations, regardless of whether it's financial or not. If you're making a big life decision, I think that we should be having
open honess conversations with your partner. And I probably take this a step too far because when I got my cat, I was like, hey, cool, so see this cat that's mine if we break up and se was like, oh, okay, you can have any I'm not going anywhere, and I was like, great, no problems. Same thing happened with the dog. I was like, I'm going to get this dog and if things don't work out between the two of us. I'm just letting you know that that is something that
is mine. Let's agree to it now. I'm sure he'd argue with me now because it's very easy to say no, that's absolutely fine Victoria before he was in love with the puppy. But I think it's so important to have
these conversations. And it's not to say that we can't revisit that conversation and renegotiate those terms, but we need to be having those conversations about everything financial because if you're coming to the relationship with the house, or you're coming to the relationship with I don't know, gee, you're a little snap. What if you got in this brand new relationship and the partner that you got was just not good at saving and your plan was to purchase
a home. Is that then their home or is that your home? Have you had that conversation? And if not, I would be having that conversation because it's really unfair for them to then assume all I thought we were doing it together, and in court that's what they'll say. Yeah, they'll go, oh, but like G and I were in such a loving relationship, and you know, we never talked about it because everything we did we did together because
we were so in love. So we bought this house together because to them, you brought the money to the table, but they were so invested on that journey. And I think you really need to draw the line, regardless of how icky that can feel, because it can actually be really liberating. And I think that a lot of people are viewing this from the lens of oh yeah, that's so yuck, like I don't want to have this conversation to my partner. But nobody ever gets in a relationship
with the intention of breaking up. Nobody ever gets in a relationship with the intention of losing an asset they worked their life for. No one intends to, you know, have these really bad outcome But do you know what's really empowering knowing every single day what I owe, what I earn, what I spend, and what I own, and knowing that the relationship I'm in I'm choosing to be in not I'm so confused financially about what would happen if, oh well, if I ask Steve for a breakup, like
what would he take? What would I take? Like I always know where I'm standing, and I always know exactly what I can take from that relationship, and I think everybody else should too.
In terms of cementing this though, be because I'm sure people would have conversations in the early days of their relationship. You've said, you shotgun Henry. I should the worst happen, you can have the house, you can have the car. I just want the pets. Do you have that in writing, though, because surely Steve could dispute that if it wasn't written down no evidence.
He could absolutely dispute that. I'm more referencing that because I'm like, it's important to have these conversations so that you're always on the same page. But we did an episode on binding financial agreements not that long ago, and if you're interested in having that conversation, definitely do it. T LDR. I do have a binding financial agreement with my partner because it was really important to me, Like, I can't just talk the talk, I've got to walk
the walk. One hundred Okay, very interesting.
I'm gonna put a little little peg in the chat, a peg in the check peg it right here, and then I BUMI the other side of the break. We will be getting into the nitty gritty of different kinds of scenarios, So please don't go anywhere, guys already, let's dive into a few situations here about how my relationship is going to affect or be affected in certain situations. Genius, let's start with some role play again. Well, maybe I don't know how things will go. See that's a good
part of relationships. Moving on, Saucy, let's start with Centerlink.
Gee, I can't stop laughing. But if you are a member of a couple, then it can actually affect what payments you get and your payment rate, which is why during university you probably had a lot of conversations about people being like Central Link think, so I'm single, and I say that because I feel like every second friend I had at Uni was single and living with their housemate and sharing a quote room because it made the
most financial sense to them. And I guess that's usually our very first experience of what de facto looks like and how it impacts us, and how that can actually drag us down in a way, because if we are de facto, our joint income is taken into consideration, and sometimes that means that you don't get access to benefits when really you should be getting access to benefits because the de facto your relationship you're in is maybe new, or maybe you're just both really young and you don't
want to be financially dependent on one another because situations are so different. I'm absolutely not advocating for lying to sendslink. I don't think anyone should do it, but it would be a miss of me to not recognize that a lot of people do, I guess quote gameless system because it makes sense for them. Definitely not saying we should
do that. Moving on from that, Centilling generally consider you a couple if you are one of the following quote you have a partner, are married, in a registered relationship, or you are de facto. You don't even necessarily need to be living together for Sentilling to actually consider you a couple, which sucks. But you might need to let sentlingk know of your relationship status to make sure everything
is hunky dory. So I won't go over it too much G But many of the way Sentilling considers whether you're in a de facto relationship or not is exactly the same way that the family courts would do that, and we describe that in the first half of the episode.
But there are a few different rules. So first different rule is if you are twenty one or younger and getting the ABS, Study Living Allowance or youth allowance as a student, or you are getting the Australian Apprentice Payment, or you are twenty one and younger and getting youth allowance as a job seeker, or you are twenty one
and getting a disability support pension. So all of those things are treated a little bit differently, but important to understand that it really does affect your payments, which, as I said before, or can be a little bit of a kick in the guts if you're at UNI and you're studying and you just really need the cash to get by.
Interesting, you said that even if you're not living together, it can impact your finances.
As well well. Absolutely, because remember how we said if you're financially dependent on one another, or your inter sexual relationship or you're romantically involved, like you don't necessarily have to live with a person to think that they're your one and only do you. Let's move on to assets here, V say you and I get married, I should be social lucky, I should be so fucky. Half a move over? What would you say the difference is between a pre
marital asset and a combined asset. I feel like they're a little bit straightforward. Pre marital, pre marriage, pre relationship. So pre marital assets are properties or assets that were bought by a party before they got into the marriage or before they got into a de facto relationship. The asset might be in the form of real estate or shares or bank deposits or any type of financial assets.
And then combined assets are classified as property owned by you and your partner, So that doesn't necessarily mean that a pre marital asset can't become a joint asset. Depending on the conversations or the situation that you're in, that either means that you own something directly with your partner or you come to acquire something while in that relationship in your individual name, which then goes into what's known as a g Are you ready for this? A matrimonial asset? Pool? Well,
fun fun pool, fun pool, let's go swimming. But these can include things like the family home you buy, any other real estate you might buy, cash, cars, other vehicles, investments, and super entitlements. But not in Western Australia, and these things aren't limited to just the big things They could also be household items like your fancy smag toaster. It could be jewelry, it could be a trady boyfriend's tools.
It could be the value of a business that you create in a relationship, which is one of the reasons why I was a staunch advocate of a binding financial agreement before I got into a relationship being a bit personal now g because from my perspective, I was like, Wow, I think I'm, you know, onto something here. I'm obsessed with she's on the money. I don't think I'm a half bad financial advisor. I think that Zella and She's on the money. Over the next ten, twenty thirty, hopefully
fifty years will continue to grow. And I'm not naive, like it's not as though I one hundred percent get all of that if Steve and I break up, because I do genuinely believe he puts a lot into our relationship to enable me to grow those things. But I want to own those things at the end of the day. I don't want him to be my business partner. I don't want half the shares to go straight to Steve and I end up being in business with my ex husband like that would suck, but we really needed to
define that. So it could be everything, and don't forget debt either, g because it could be anything. It could be a personal loan that you two get together to go on a fancy holiday that you both will like super pump to go on. Or it could be that one party in the relationship has gambling day and didn't tell anyone and got a personal loan and it all just racked up from there and they've got a couple of credit cards that you didn't know about. Could be
a shopping addiction. It could be literally anything, but if it was made during the relationship, it's very likely to be seen as a joint debt, which sucks and gets me really on my high horse when we're talking about abusive relationships, because as we've seen on Money Diaries, historically there have been a number of women, and I'm sure it happens to men as well, but on the She's on the Money podcast, we've only ever had conversations with women about this, But women who have been left with
massive debts because of their partners and have had to pay it off because they were in the relationship, and that sucks, and I think that there should be more rules and regulations around that, because it is honestly absolute junk. But I think it's really important to talk about because if you created something in your relationship that's not a pre marital asset, just because G did it well she was married to V doesn't mean that V didn't again put any equity into that asset.
Yeah, okay, Well on that note, then let's talk about how we can protect ourselves and our assets in these situations.
We have good conversations. Oh, this is a really hard one to say because again making this quite personal, because the easiest way to describe things is for me to go, hey, here's the situation, and the situation I know best happens to be my own. But relationships sometimes pop up out of nowhere. I totally get that Steve and I met and then I think we decided that that was it two weeks after we met, like, and that's very nice and very exciting, But that doesn't leave a lot of
wiggle room to have those big conversations. So they came laid down the track, and thankfully I was in a relationship with someone who's really supportive and really understanding. But I think we need to be quite wary of relationships. I don't want to scare people. I don't want people to be like, oh, biggie, you're right. I never getting back on the dating apps. I promise you can find someone good on there. Found Steve on there, so you know that's one person who's had a very solid experience.
But having conversations early and having chats with your accountant or people who are in your sphere of I guess influence to make sure that they know what's up. Like if you're buying a house and you know, as we use that example before, G wants to buy a house, but she gets into a relationship, start talking about that early.
Don't go on the house hunting journey with your partner and go, oh my god, what about this one babe, brah rah, get them so invested to then turn around and be like, oh, you know, this isn't going to be your house, right Like, I'm the one with all the money, so obviously that's not going to be yours. I think you need to make sure that there are really clear boundaries from the beginning. Okay, Hey, I'm g I'm going to be buying a house, partner, are you
okay with that? Understanding their financial situation and the journey there on, and making sure that they're complimentary to one another, because you might desperately want to own a home, but your partner might go, please wait for me, and then you make a decision together to wait for them to save their part of the deposit, or they might go, oh, I don't mind, go buy your own house. That's totally okay. Document it. I think people really underestimate the I guess
value in just documenting things as well. I sound so creepy like I'm trying to keep receipts on people, But a paper trail, a pay per trail, is really important. And regardless of whether you have a binding financial agreement or not, you can rely on past communications. So if you have been in a situation where you've had that conversation, you can just shoot them a quick email and be like, hey, just wrapping our conversation. I'm going to be buying a house.
It's going to be in my name. You aren't going to be financially responsible for the mortgage. That means you're not going to be financially able to take half of it if we should ever break up. And I know that that's not very sexy. What I promise being protected is you need to be thinking with your head, not your heart right and they're conflicting. They don't want the same things. They don't know, they don't they never have. So let's move on from that.
All right, they let's talk homelands. I have two scenarios for you. The first, you and I.
Are in a relationship. I'm really pushing this and I'm picking up or you are pushing down.
We're applying for a loan together, yes, and we're going to be co contributing to the mortgage.
Very nice. How does our relationship impact that scenario? Okay, so hot take from me is that both of our financial circumstances are going to be taken into consideration. In that circumstance, that could be my shopping addiction that I have and I spend a lot on shoes, and that could stop you, who's really good at budgeting and cash flow, from being able to access as much money as you might want, or even being able to get a loan
in the first place. So you really need to make sure if you're going to get a loan with your partner, you're not just you know, on the same page, about the outcome. But you need to be on the same page about your journey. And I always recommend to my clients to start that journey six months before you're purchasing. And I say that because that puts you in the prime position to get your budgeting and cash flow sorted out.
Have a few tricky conversations, maybe improve a credit score, get rid of I now pay laters that you might want to get rid of. It enables you to pay down some credit cards if you've got them, and get on the right page. It also enables you to put yourself in a position where you are paying into a savings account exactly what you think that mortgage or a payment might be, each and every single month, so you can start getting into the motions of quote paying the mortgage.
Because too many times do I see people in our community biting off more than they can chew. Because if you go to a broker, they're going to go, all right, GMV, we're so excited to buy your first marital home, and this is how much you can spend up to. And too many people take that spend up to amount as gospel and they go, oh, they said, we can borrow
a million dollars. Gee, we should spend a million dollars, But that might not actually be the smartest thing for your cash flow, because what that is saying is, with your current financial situation, you have that money at your disposal so you can pay that mortgage. But what it actually might mean is you're on rice and noodles and
you're not able to go on any holidays. And yes, with your current financial situation, you've been sacrificing for a really long time to get that home deposit together, which means you might not have done any of those things. You might not have eaten out, and you're kind of waiting until you get to the point where you're like, great, gee, we've got this mortgage. Now we're going to pay the minimum repayments and we're going to go and we're gonna go out for dinners and we can get back to
having holidays now we've got the house. But your mortgage repayments might actually be so much that you can't do that. So you need to look at how much those mortgage repayments are going to impact your lifestyle, and a good way of doing that is six months before getting a mortgage, starting to save that amount even if that is, you know, more than what you think you'll spend. I think it gives you a really good indication of what you could
or couldn't do. Does that make sense. Yeah, especially as a duo to kind of exactly what another is doing. It always looks really good to a bank if you go, hey, look, we've been actually saving that amount because rent isn't taken into consideration, which is a joke. But we've been saving the amount that the mortgage is going to be for the last six months, aren't we. You're responsible humans who should be given a home loan. Stunning. Let's move on to scenario two. Yes, sir, you and I are in
a relationship. Noyes just think about it, but you keep making me think about it and everybody else listening. But here's the twist. Yeah, I'm the baller. You are the baller.
You're just my little girlfriend. Anyway, I'm just your little girl. Fairwell, I'm going way to make me feel menial.
I'm going to be applying for a home loan all my I don't like this power dynamic doing it all by myself, and I feel repating at all. But you might pay some rent in the future. What about what about the cleaning I do, well, what about the emotional support I give you? Talk to me about that? What happens in that situation. So that's a really hard situation because if you're in a de facto relationship, your partner's spending and your partner's income is still going to be
taken into consideration. And I think it is an absolute joke. Even if you are one hundred percent financially independent, saying you are in a position where you have a partner is going to mean that the banks are going to want to know what position your partner is in, because the banks are going to assume and I know that this sounds really unfair, but there's good reason to their rhyme.
What if your partner lost their job. Ge, if I went out and I got fired, you would then, hopefully, as my partner, go don't worry the I've got us. So the bank needs to take that situation into consideration. Whether I've been made redundant or lose my job, or you know, get ill or injured or something happens, that is a risk that the bank is taking into consideration.
So pragmatically, I completely understand it. But I have a friend going through that exact situation at the moment, and the amount that they're able to borrow is like, I think eighty thousand dollars less than what it would be if they had applied as a single person with no de factor relation. Really, yeah, it's a joke. And I say it's a joke because they obviously think it's really unfair.
I think it's really unfair, and it's putting them in a position where they can't buy what they want to buy, but they can afford it, and they're completely financially independent of their partner. But because they've lived together and they had a factor and they're doing the right thing and telling the broker that there's not much you can do. Apologize if you've already answered this. But what if I'm just thinking of a mate of mine. What if you've been with someone for three years?
Yeah, you've lived together for two in a house that they own, yep, then you break up suddenly, Yeah, what is my friend in title too?
From a financial position, so it completely depends on the situation, how much they lent on each other financially, whether they were thinking that they were contributing to that mortgage or not, whether they were very clear from the get go, like I've got a mate who bought a property in Richmond, and she turned around and was like, all right, if you're my boyfriend and you're moving in, you're paying rent. Here's your rental agreement, and made it crystal clear that
they were never contributing to them. More so in that situation, it's a little bit clearer, but as a base, if you know, the proverbial hit the fan and they ended up in family court. The family court actually starts at a fifty to fifty basis and then goes back and forth from there. Interesting. It's terrifying, right, yeah, it is. It is. It's scary, and I think that's why we should be having these open, honest conversations when we're both
in our right mind. Like g we are so deeply in love with one another, which is why we should be talking today about, well, gee, what happens if you know,
we break up? Because right now I am going to assume that you want the best for me and I want the best for you, So let's document that outcome, and even if we break up, I don't want to have that conversation with you when I've worked out that you've cheated on me with Jess, Like yeah, oh yeah, but let's just go back to the document that we drew up where we both wanted the best for each other and rely on that regardless of the situation that's making us really bitter at that point in time. So
that could be a BFA or could be a rental agreement. Yes, and even if you don't want to go and get a BFA, which I obviously very very much endorsed, So that's a binding financial agreement, even writing it out and going all right, gee, let's just ride out our own binding financial agreement because we can't afford the lawyers, We can't afford to go and have it set up. Let's
just find a template online. I do genuinely believe that that is better than nothing, Like, if you can't afford the actual document, I totally understand that it is an investment, and I hope it's an investment that doesn't pay a fitself right like, And I say that kindly because I don't want you to have to break up. I don't want you to have to lean on that, but it would be an investment in peace of mind. But if
you can't afford that, that's okay. Let's just draw up what we have and in the future we can take that to a lawyer and get that drawn up when we're more financially stable. Let's move on now, V and talk about super. Oh a sexy topic is that saying my favorite of all the tax structures. Super is my favorite.
Say again, it's you and I. We split up, We're in a de factor relationship and it ends. How does super come into the fold if it's something that we can't access for another fifty years.
So it can be taken into consideration when the family courts come to play. So it is not safe and locked away from your partner sadly, so after separation, supranuation is treated as property. It's essentially a property under the Family Law Act. However, as we said before, that's very different in WA. So please please please, wherever you are if you're going through this, get advice. But it is different from other types of property because that asset is
being held in trust. So, as I mentioned before, superranuation is my favorite tax structure. Supranuation is not an investment, but when you put your money into that tax structure, you then therefore invest that money, and that is the asset that the family court looks at and goes, all right, well,
we probably should divide it. And again, the family court usually starts with a fifty to fifty basis and then like that's back and forth from there, which I think is a fair starting point, but not everybody sees it that way. So, as I said before, g the laws to splitting supranuation applies to everybody except for our friends in way who aren't actually eligible to split supranuation, which
I think is a joke. Like, honestly, can you imagine in twenty twenty two a woman not being able to access, or anybody for that matter, not being able to access the superannuation of their partner that they supported all the way through their career does seem like a pretty outdated, archaic way of doing it. It just seems a bit wild. And I know that a lot of people listening to this are going to be like Va, I'm in my twenties, like my maner has not much supers so like, I
don't care about it. They're not the people that I'm worried about. I'm worried about the women who are currently experiencing massive amounts of disadvantage and knowing the current statistics that say the biggest growing demographic of people experiencing homelessness is women over the age of fifty five. I genuinely believe that this discrepancy and this I guess power imbalance has a lot to say. And then the fact that these women who are going through a divorce, who are
experiencing homelessness are not able to access superannuation. No, no, sir, to me, that's wild. So I get it. If you're twenty and you're like, that doesn't worry me. I broke up with him, Good riddance. I don't want his super I get that, But there are a lot of people who are significantly disadvantaged by that.
Let's talk now, VI about trusts.
Surely they're owned by the individual and aren't going to be oh, you know, everything is fair game. I think it's a very is outdated the right word here, I
don't think it is. It's a very American view to think you can hide assets from your partner, you know how an American TV shows that like, oh my god, put it in a trust and she won't be able to access it, or like right before in American TV, right before they ask their wife for a divorce, they like hide all their shit, or the wife finds that the husband's cheating and she's like, oh my god, I'm going to go see a lawyer before he figures it out. I'm going to move this and this. That doesn't happen
in Australia. In Australia it is completely transparent. You can't hide anything from the family courts, which I think is very, very important and is another reason why our system is better than America's. But as I said, massive misconception that assets that are owned in quote a discretionary trust will not form part of the property pool available for division between the spouses. As I said before, the starting point is always fifty to fifty and then they go back
and forth from there. It's also super common for separated spouses or separated partners to argue about whether a trust forms part of the property pool because they think that that's a protected asset. They're like, no, that's a trust, that's mine, rah rah, because they see it as a resource that is ultimately entirely theirs, when that's just not the case. But again, this all completely depends on the nature of the spouse's interest and their degree of control
over the trust and how all of that works. But no, there's always, always, always visibility in these things. Even if like let's say that you and I we were do you know what we're going to become. We're going to become property investing moguls g And what we do is we go and establish a trust because we're like genius a trust to keep all our properties. That sounds genius, But you're the director and you're the person who set
it up, and somehow I just got completely missed. That doesn't mean I'm going to miss out because you had to put that asset on the table, so you can't screw me over. It is harder because obviously if it's one hundred percent in your name, there's probably a lot of hurdles that would have to go over in the legal system. But at the end of the day, thankfully we live in a world where everything is transparent. Sophy, are we out of the woods? If you and I
break out? Like what if we have a BFA we sorted, what's the deal? Who knows? Maybe did you cheat on me? I don't know how savage I'm going to be about this breakup? Was it mutual? Did I ask for it. You don't know, Okay, no you did. I did. I did cheat? You did? You didn't. I wouldn't do that to you. Well you never know, though, you never know. Oh my gosh. I've just been watching a new Netflix series where a guy kind of remember what it's called, but the guy cheats on his wife and he's in politics,
The Anatomy of a Scandal. Yes, I just sashed it. I started watching it in the bar. It's absolutely trash. I was very unhappy with how that ended. But that's a very interesting plug. Anatomy of a Scandal on I think it's Netflix. Check it out. It's awful Netflix. Do you know what? It's very easy to waste time. And it was kind of pervy as well, because like and
Ciana Miller, isn't it who doesn't know? She's so at the end of the day, g if you do actually have a binding financial agreement that has been prepared by a lawyer, not just one that you've downloaded and put in your emails for a paper trail, which I said,
I think is a very good option. If you can't afford a binding financial agreement that would be able to sort out your property and maintenance according to that agreement, the next best thing is, you know, having that paper trail, because gee, as we always say, it doesn't matter if you can afford it or not. There's always another option that you can pursue. I think it's really naive of us to go, oh, gee, we can't afford a binding financial agreement, so therefore we're just not going to do it.
I think that that is really detrimental and let's just do the next best thing. But at the end of the day, I need to be brutally honest, and if everything goes south and you and I are fighting like cat and dog, and I now want the worst for you and you want the worst for me. A binding financial agreement can be challenged in Australia. Unfortunately, it is not like a prenup, which usually can't be challenged in
the US, But in Australia you can challenge them. It obviously would involve court fees and actually being quite dramatic about it. But sometimes people believe it is worth it, and that is okay, each to their own. And I think that if you think that you're binding financial agreement that you set up at the start of a relationship is no longer putting everybody in the best possible position. Then yes, I do think you should challenge it, but not just to be bitter about it. But that's just
my own personal take. But at the end of the day, I just think that having as many things documented as possible is the key to success. Okay, V My last question, maybe it's a dark one, so shoot me. You are really dark this week though, I am. I am.
So we're in a de facto relationship. Sadly one of us passes away. What is me other partner? You're trying to kill me or well maybe you're trying. But essentially, you have the same rights as a married person nowadays, which is very cool because for a very long time, if you were just the boyfriend of you know, a partner for the last thirty years, you weren't entitled to the same rights as a married person because historically you
might not have been able to marry your partner. So nowadays you are entitled to exactly the same rights, and I think that that is perfect. And this includes rights and entitlements that regard the following g I've listed them out to make them super speedy at the end. Number one, a share of an estate where no will exists, that is, and we discuss this on the episode with Lucy about wills and estate planning. So go and find that your partner dies in test state. That means they have no
will and no estate plan. Number two, I've written down the right to challenge a will if you're not adequately provided for. So for example, if your partner of Rota will ages ago, didn't think about it, got in this de fact a relationship. You and your partner are five years into a relationship, you have a two and a three year old, life's pretty hectic, and their will says that one hundred percent of their assets go to their parents. You can absolutely say probably not though, because I have
two small children to provide. Four or maybe you're a stay at home girlfriend or a stay at home boyfriend, or they are significantly financially responsible for you or number three receive compensation entitlements under workers' compensation law if your partner dies during the course of employment, and number four you will be able to claim their Social Security entitlements. Okay, that's a very dark place to leave it, but it's a little bit very important. If you haven't listened to
our binding financial agreement episode. Go and listen to that. If you haven't listened to Our Wills, an estate planning episode with our friend Lucy Percy from Head and Heart estate Planning, who was an absolute delight, go and listen to that, because there is so much information in that that is going to put you in the best possible position, which is all I want.
Perfect all right, So moral of the story, you're probably entitled to more than you think in a de facto relationship. Absolutely, it's important we use our head and not our heart though it can be hard, and yeah, it can be hard. That's very moving gee.
And finally, it's really really important to keep a paper trail along the journey.
Absolutely, because I don't want people to think that I'm super entitled recommending a binding financial agreement, because then you're like, great, v I want to set one up, and I'm like, okay, cool, it's going to be more than a thousand dollars and you're like, well, I don't have more than a thousand dollars, but I still want to be protected in my relationship, and the family courts are going to look really I guess fondly on that and go, okay, cool, here's all
this evidence, let's sort it out. Let's actually look at this and a paper trail, regardless of what you're going through, whether that is a relationship, an argument, an employment situation like pay per trails are just in and if you don't use them, great, they're just sitting in your room box exactly. No harm done, my friend, perfection. We have a boring style. Let's do it.
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That's a little review. I've been on the reviews lately, three good ones and I always need don't leave that ones that makes you crack. Bye. M