MONEY DIARIES: Starting All Over Again...& Again! - podcast episode cover

MONEY DIARIES: Starting All Over Again...& Again!

Jul 09, 202329 min
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Episode description

Having travelled a lot in her 20s, this Money Diarist moved overseas and into a bad relationship right before covid hit! She lost her job and took out her super to get out of the situation, and had to start again, and then again! She made her way back home, and into a new career (and love). One year later, and she's just settled on her new home with her partner and wants to share her stop and start story with the community. 

Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements.

The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr

the Order Kerney Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow.

Speaker 2

Let's get into it.

Speaker 3

She's on the Money. She's on the Money.

Speaker 2

Hello, and welcome to She's on Them, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Welcome back to my favorite episode of the week, Money Diaries, where I get the chance to talk to one of out amazing She's on the Money community members all about their story and about their money journey, and it is my favorite part of

every week. I kid you not. Let's jump straight into it because this week I got a message and it sounded a lot like this, because I'm going to read it to you, hi V. I traveled a lot in my twenties and moved overseas in twenty nineteen, sadly to an emotionally abusive relationship right before COVID hit. Then I lost my job. I took my souper out to get out of that situation and had to start again multiple

times while overseas. I moved back to Australia in April twenty twenty two, and one year later, my partner and I have just bought a house. Money diarist, I'm so excited to have you here. Are you ready to do a money diary?

Speaker 3

Definitely? Yeah? Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2

Well, let's jump straight into it. As always, I want to know upfront, what would you rate your money habits if I asked you to rate your habits on a scale of A through to F.

Speaker 3

Probably a B. I think a B.

Speaker 2

I like that. Let's learn a little bit more. My favorite favorite question money deres. Can you tell me a little bit more about your money story?

Speaker 3

Yeah? So, growing up we didn't really talk too much about money. When I got a job when I was fifteen, my mum made sure that we knew, you know, to save, but it wasn't like we didn't have like budgets or anything like that. It was just you have to save, you have to save, you have to save, and me, being a teenager, I kind of ignored that and I spent most of my money.

Speaker 2

Like any good teenager does. I don't know anything when you're a teenager.

Speaker 3

I know, shocking. Yeah, And I mean skip forward fifteen years and she's gone guarantee for us, which is amazing.

Speaker 2

So she trusts you now, Yeah, yes, she mum, what you worried about? Honestly, So tell me a little bit more about growing up. What was my Obviously you didn't listen, but what did that end up looking like?

Speaker 3

Yeah? So, I mean, as far as sort of I was aware, we never really struggled. Like I knew that when we sold our family home, like where mum sold it after my parents got divorced. It was probably a good seven to eight years after that. She sold the house because if she were to keep paying that mortgage, she wouldn't have a life. So she made the decision to sell the bigger house and build a new house not too far away.

Speaker 2

I like that. I feel like that's the type of compromise that sometimes a lot of people don't want to make because that would have been a hard decision, right, Like that's something that a lot of pride would have ridden on that decision, but she's obviously made the right one for her. What does life look like now? Is she happier and healthier and thriving?

Speaker 3

Oh definitely, Yeah, she is thriving. And all my friends think she's the coolest.

Speaker 2

Oh we love that.

Speaker 3

Now that I'm twenty seven, I think she's the coolest too.

Speaker 2

So it just takes a little bit of can in the scene, right.

Speaker 3

Exactly, Yeah, asked me ten years ago. And that's not the.

Speaker 2

Case, absolutely not. Mums can't be cool when you're a seventeen year old, absolutely not.

Speaker 3

H Yeah, and now she's doing quite well and she's got not much mortgage left obviously in the position to go garanteur from myself and my partner. Yeah, so, yeah, she's doing well and she's thriving, and yeah, she lives on her own and she always says I'll never live with anyone else.

Speaker 2

I love that. I feel like that's a vibe, get it, mum?

Speaker 3

Yep? Exactly?

Speaker 2

All right. I need to know what do you do for work and how much money do you earn.

Speaker 3

I am a sales support assistant for a custom clothing company and I make sixty three K a year plus super and plus five K commission a year.

Speaker 2

What does that mean? What's a sales support assistant? Can you tell me a little bit more about your day to day. I'm super interested. It's a lot of customer service.

Speaker 3

So we have our sales team who will get the sale and then set up an order, and we do a lot of custom clothes for year twelves and like groups like that, So.

Speaker 2

It's like a bulk, like a bigger order. Someone's not just buying one thing, They're buying multiple Yeah. Yes, okay, that makes more sense. I was like, what does our support officer do in this back in this world?

Speaker 3

Once the sales locked in and the order is open, then we provide that support to the customer, so then the sales team can continue getting more sales. Yeah cool.

Speaker 2

Do you enjoy it? How did you get into this line of work?

Speaker 3

Yeah? So, I really, I really enjoy it. I was just looking on seek one day and I applied for some jobs. I was about to go back to the UK for a month, and while I was sitting in the airport on my way there, I got a phone call from the recruitment person. Yeah, I was like, oh, I'm sitting in the airport at the moment, but I'm happy to do you know, virtual interviews. And she was like, yes, that's not a problem, Like we can do virtual interviews

because so many of us are based from home. So the time that I was in the UK for a month, I was interviewing for this position.

Speaker 2

Oh how good.

Speaker 3

Yeah, and then by the time I got back, I had a blind up for when I got back, which was.

Speaker 2

Great money win.

Speaker 3

I love that. Yeah, absolutely, so.

Speaker 2

I want to know next, what's your big money goal. What are we currently working towards.

Speaker 3

Currently, we're working towards trying to take Mum off our mortgage as guarantee. Up until sort of sort of March April, we were aiming to buy a house and then we achieved that, which is great, and yeah, our next next big goal is to increase that equity in our house to then be able to get Mum off alone.

Speaker 2

I'm so pervy. I'm going to ask about all of your house questions. Right after this, let's go to a really quick break. Don't go anywhere all right, guys, we are back and let's dive right back in. You have just purchased your first home with your partner, and I am so pervy. I want to know how you've done that. I feel like I know because you mentioned that one of your big money goals was to get your mum

off as a guaranteur. But can you talk me through a little bit more of that process and what that looks like and how it works, because I'm just so interested to know how somebody in your salary bracket who has just returned from overseas has managed to either save a deposit or like swindle their way into a property. I feel like this is going to be a very exciting story to learn from.

Speaker 3

Yeah, so pretty much from when my partner and I met. Both of our goals was once I settled back down into Australia was to buy a house. So it just made sense to start saving for that straight away. I gave Kate a call from Zella.

Speaker 2

Great decision, honestly, one of your best.

Speaker 3

Yeah, absolutely, I agree. Yeah, So I gave Kate a call and she was telling me about how we only need a five percent deposit, and then she was sort of helping us work out roughly what we can borrow and what sort of deposit plus purchasing costs we would need for that, so we started saving like crazy, and we were living with his mum at the time, so paying rent, saving, we didn't have a lot leftover, but we still lived pretty comfortably for ourselves. We got to

do the things that we wanted to do. We've been to a lot of events in the last year as well, like concerts and like a festival and stuff like that, which has been really nice. We've still sort of allowed ourselves to live a bit whilst being a little bit restrictive, just to try and save as much as we could. And then it turned out the mum was in a position to go guaranteur for us. I had that discussion

with her back in March. Money win, yeah, absolutely, because then we were able to borrow one hundred percent of our purchase price, which meant all of our savings was able to go to furnishing the house, to renovating the house because we bought a thirty year old house. So we painted, We've got the floors replaced. We still want to get the kitchen and bathroom done, but it's a whole new house. Everyone who sees it now they're just like, wow, this is oh that.

Speaker 2

So much And I feel like, obviously we have to acknowledge that borrowing one hundred percent of the purchase price can be a little bit risky, and Kate would have taken you through that, but it can also be relative liberating. If you're like, no, I know, I'm going to be here for the long term and this is going to work really well for me, it actually can free you

up a fair bit financially. Did you, when you, I guess started the conversation with Kate, know where that was going or did you think that that was a big possibility for you in the near future, or did you think it was going to take way longer or what did that look like?

Speaker 3

I thought it was probably going to take a bit longer, obviously, because we planned on saving for a five percent deposit when it turned out that we didn't need to necessarily, it took about probably a year or two less than what I thought it would. But yeah, so talking through it with Kate, I just sort of had an idea of what number we had to sort of get up to, and yeah, we had a plan to get up to

that number while also living our lives. So it was, you know, a rough idea of a year or two, but The end goal was obviously to get into a house as soon as possible and one that also met our needs. So because we were living with my partner's mum, we were quite comfortable, so we were happy to wait for something that our needs. But we actually got very lucky, and it was the second house that we viewed, but

the first house that we viewed together. So the first house I just went by myself because my partner works at a place that's not home. I work at home, so I have a lot more flexibility. So yeah, but it was the first place that we saw together.

Speaker 2

Oh my gosh, I love that. That's such a good journey and such a good story. I'm going to ask about it in a hot second. I want to know, now, do you have any investments. If so, what are they? If not, do you want to invest?

Speaker 3

I have a Chasia's account, and I have a Rai's account as well. I haven't really looked too far into them. It's been a very busy few months.

Speaker 2

Understandably, so.

Speaker 3

I do plan to sort of get more into those and sort of start with the micro investing roundups with Rays and then maybe get sort of more in depth with Chasis in their future as well.

Speaker 2

How fun? All right, we're back on the house content because I just can't leave it alone. I want to know about your debts. So do you have any debts? If so, what are they? So, the only debt we have is the mortgage, and what is that sitting at.

Speaker 3

That's currently sitting at five hundred and seventy thousand, which was the purchase prece we settled about three weeks ago.

Speaker 2

Oh my gosh, that's so soon. How good have you moved in? You've moved in and you're like living in there and renovating it. What has been your favorite part?

Speaker 3

Probably walking in after it was painted and the floors were done. That was great.

Speaker 2

Crisp, right, crisp and fresh and feels like yours. Finally, absolutely, But we currently don't have doors. Oh you don't need doors? Yeah, exactly, So we don't need doors at the moment. I don't even have running water in my house that I'm meant to be living in. Oh, so, like, we don't even need that, and I'm still planning on moving in very soon. So it's fine. It's fine. You can just be in love with a house. It's absolutely okay. Exactly have you had your first mortgage payment not.

Speaker 3

Yet, that comes out at the start of next month.

Speaker 2

Oh scary. What is that going to set you back? Do you think? Each and every single month?

Speaker 3

So at the moment it's sitting at three thousand, two hundred and fifty month, but I believe after the increase this month, that's going to go up again.

Speaker 2

Yes, probably, And how do you feel about that? How does that slot into your budget?

Speaker 3

It slots in Okay, we did allow when we were talking to Kate, we allowed, you know, for an extra couple of increases. We were talking to Kate, and we ended up going to sort of the max of our budget because of the increasing house prices again, so they started to sort of drop and then they started to go up again. So we're still able to stick within our budget and not have to postpone purchasing because we did have to go to that maximum amount. But yeah,

we also did budget for that. And obviously the house comes first for us, you know, if things do get a little bit too much, then we will need to compromise in other spaces.

Speaker 2

But yeah, I like that you've already thought about that. I feel like it's not that common to go through that home buying process. And hear people say, oh, well, actually we've factor it in for the next few rate rises and should be okay, and these are our priorities

and this is what it's going to look like. Does that make you feel a little bit more calm, Like I feel like you're a relatively calm homeowner given a lot of people at the moment are completely freaking out about the interest rate rises.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I mean it does make me feel a bit more calm, just because we've planned for these things, and my partner and I are on the same page as well, so you know, if things go up too much, then it's like, okay, we're going to have to he might have to sell one of his three.

Speaker 2

Cars or three cars. All right, Well you've opened that can of Williams. What does he do for him?

Speaker 3

He's a mechanic.

Speaker 2

Oh okay, this story checks out very seriously.

Speaker 3

Yep. So yeah, we do have plans in place for you if it becomes too much, and you know, obviously the very last case is to sell the house if it was to come to that, but that's worst case scenario, like that would be the very last thing that we would ever want to do.

Speaker 2

Yeah, of course, Well it's nice to know that you've gone in I guess with your eyes open and you understand the process, because I think sometimes a mortgage can be all consuming and people often don't think about what life looks like. After you've got that mortgage, you just go, oh, my gosh, like this is the most exciting thing ever. And then you realize that maybe you did buit it off more than you can chew, and that you're not

in the best possible position. But it sounds like you guys have it covered, and that makes me so excited. I'm assuming you're pretty good at money, like you, at the end of the day, have just bought a house, like I feel like your money story leans towards you making some savvy decisions. Tell me a little bit more about what you think your best money habit is.

Speaker 3

My best money habit is probably using the ses on the money budget template because it just helps me see exactly where my money is. And I know exactly where my money is all the time, and I have automated all my payments. I don't even have to every week transfer money. It just automatically comes out, which is great. Every payday it's gone, and then hey, I have this much left over, which is awesome.

Speaker 2

Oh my gosh, I wanted to just roll all the way back to the letter that you wrote me, which was very, very nice. But in it you mentioned that you moved overseas sadly to an emotionally abusive relationship right before COVID hit. So I feel like this is a glow up, like this is from one thing to another. What was your experience going through that. Is this a reality that you saw happening for you? Is this something

where you were like, oh my gosh. No, of course, Victoria, I was always super positive through this because if it was an emotionally abusive relationship, I'm assuming it kind of got you down a fair bit. So how my friend, did you get through this? Because your story is relatively inspirational, and I look at it and go, oh my gosh, how did she do this and then come out the end looking super shiny, super amazing and like absolutely living her best life.

Speaker 3

Yes, So I always sort of wanted to move to the UK to experience living overseas, and and I'm a dual citizen, so it was nice and easy for me to do, which was nice. But when I went to visit my friend who lives in the UK. I met her brother, and then that's when we sort of started talking, got into a relationship, and I ended up moving over there to their hometown. So I had no family and friends around me in person except for his two sisters.

And pretty quickly it was obviously it was very stressful moving over there with no support around me in person, but I had a lot of support around me, you know, over the phone and stuff like that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, of course.

Speaker 3

Yeah. So very quickly he started picking fights with me. It seemed that, you know, he wasn't very empathetic to my stress, and it was very easy to upset me and trigger me into like fights and that sort of thing. So he would start arguments and then he would go and complain to his family about how awful I was and saying that I'm just picking fights and being angry at him for no reason. And one time it was very lucky for me that he actually did it right

in front of his older sister. And then I ended up leaving this is at her house. So I ended up leaving her house. I was like, I'm not doing this right.

Speaker 2

Now, not here, not right now.

Speaker 3

I'm leaving. See when you get home. Sort of thing, and then I messaged her later on, I'm like, I'm so sorry, Like, obviously I didn't want to up and leave like that, spending time with you was obviously our priority for that time, and like that happened, and she's like, no, I can actually see what's going on now, and.

Speaker 2

Oh, it's awful that you have to do that, but like it's kind of good that they got to see it from your perspective.

Speaker 3

Exactly.

Speaker 2

I thought you were going to tell me that his whole family were going to be against you, because you know, anyone messes with my sister, oh you've got another thing coming. I'm the only one that's allowed to mess with her, exactly. So I genuinely assumed that you were going to tell me. They didn't see it, and I was all alone. So what happened next?

Speaker 3

Yeah, so next to COVID hit. So I had got a job in the February and I was I started that job in March at the very start of March. That was the day that Italy went into lockdown. A week later, we lost our jobs. So it was in the travel industry.

Speaker 2

Gosh, oh my gosh, like the first to go, yes, kick you while you're down.

Speaker 3

Oh yeah, one hundred percent. Yeah. So I worked for flight Center for four years before I moved to the UK, so going back into the travel industry was suitable and easy. Yeah. So, and then obviously COVID happened and we went into lockdown after I lost my job, and he was very unsympathetic about me losing my job as well, So two days after it, I was still quite upset, and his words were, I thought you'd be over it by now.

Speaker 2

I lost my job, and you're a piece of trash, so why would I be over there exactly.

Speaker 3

Yeah, And getting that job it was like, okay, great, now I can make a plan to leave. Now I can look at my own plan.

Speaker 2

Now you're not tied because you don't feel bad quitting a job that you'd started so soon.

Speaker 3

Yeah, so I was able to. I was thinking I was going to be able to move out into my own flat, leave him and all that, and then when I lost that job, it was like, oh, I'm stuck again. That was your freedom, Yeah, it was my freedom. And then I was stuck in the flat with him for all of the first lockdown. Luckily, he worked in like a freight distribution warehouse, so he didn't lose work at all, which was great because it meant I got some time without him in lockdown.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and he wasn't home twenty four seven exactly.

Speaker 3

Yeah, so that was definitely a bit of a relief. But yeah, and then during lockdown he would do like little things that were just built up, like, for example, in the kitchen, he wouldn't we had one of those bins that you like pressed down and it clicks in. Oh yeah, yeah, So he would never close that bin, and it stunk out the whole one bedroom apartment because it's such a small apartment and it's a kitchen bin.

They smell. And then when I said something, he would just try and convince me that the bin was broken, which obviously it wasn't because I was having no problems closing it.

Speaker 2

Sir, you are trying to gaslight me and you're not even doing a good job exactly.

Speaker 3

Yeah. So he that was just one of the examples of him gaslighting me. And then one time I saw him not close the bin, like he opened it, put something in it and then walked away, and I was like.

Speaker 2

Ah, And it's always the small things that break the camel's back, exactly, Like there's obviously way bigger issues in your relationship, because I promise you, if it was just the bin, then we've got a big problem. But you just know it's not the bin. Like this is manifesting and coming out in the frustration, and like it's all small things that they know they could fix, or that anybody could fix, but they're just choosing not to. Exactly, you're watching he one hundred percent exactly.

Speaker 3

And yeah, he swore black and blue that he could have sworn on someone's life that he closed that bin. And I saw it with my own eyes that he did.

Speaker 2

Not so well, So sit down.

Speaker 3

Yeah, the gas lighting was just next level.

Speaker 2

He needs some training and gas lighting like do it probably if you're going to do it at all, sir.

Speaker 3

I know exactly.

Speaker 2

Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry you went through that because it would have been emotionally and mentally draining. It would have just beat you while that you were down, like you'd already felt a bit trashy because you've lost your job in COVID and you were away from your family and friends, and like it's just not it's kind of like a storm right in a teacup where it's just like my entire world doesn't make sense exactly.

Speaker 3

Yeah. So I was stuck in that cycle until about June July when we were allowed out. And luckily my dad lives in the UK as well, so.

Speaker 2

Oh my gosh, how good.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Yeah, so he lived a couple of hours away from where I lived. But once the first down ended, we were able to rent cars again and vans, so I got him to rent a van to come pick me up. And then that was the second time in six months that I started all over again, and I went and lived in London.

Speaker 2

Oh my gosh, So what happened when you moved in with your dad? Was it all up from there?

Speaker 3

Pretty much? Yeah? So, I mean, there was definitely rocky when I was in London, but it was it was two years of living in a different country. I lived with my dad for six weeks and then I moved into the city by myself, and I moved I think three or four times within a year or two London life, yep, exactly. So that was a bit painful, but you know, it was good. I had some steady work. I was working in schools as a teaching assistant and a mentor, so

that was really nice. I really liked that and yeah, and then I ended up moving home.

Speaker 2

Oh how good? And can I be real sneaky and cheeky. I want to know how'd you meet your current partner? Like, when does he come into the mix?

Speaker 3

Yeah? So he comes into the mix. In February of twenty twenty two, So, while I was in the UK, unfortunately I lost my cousin to suicide.

Speaker 2

I'm so sorry you went through that.

Speaker 3

Thank you. I decided to fly home for her funeral and to be with my family, obviously, because I needed that support. I didn't want to sort of be by myself. I obviously had friends and family over there, but it wasn't the right side of the family. And it was, you know, being there and being able to lean on all my family and have them lean on me, and

everything was good. And then while I was in Australia on that trip, I went to visit one of my auntie and uncles and he used to be their neighbor, so they were friends, and he was there for my auntie's birthday, and then my mum and my auntie were plotting how to set us up.

Speaker 2

They knew oh yeah.

Speaker 3

Absolutely, yeah, but I thought I'd just beat them to it. So I added him on Socials and then we started talking a few days later.

Speaker 2

I'll do this myself, Mum. I don't need you.

Speaker 3

Exactly, because I know how embarrassing these two are just by themselves, let alone together.

Speaker 2

He knows he lived next door.

Speaker 3

Yeah, so I'm like, oh, you know what, I'm not letting this happen. I'll do it myself.

Speaker 2

I love that so much. That's a really wholesome story. And now you've bought a house together and you're renovating it. Oh, that makes me so happy to know that you're in such a better place.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Absolutely. I ended up extending my trip for an extra week than I planned, so we spent sort of the next two three weeks together before I went back to the UK, and straight away it was I was supposed to be in the UK for another six months, but straight away he was like, yeah, it's fine, we'll do long distance. I'll be waiting here for you when you get back.

Speaker 2

Oh my gosh, what a honey.

Speaker 3

Yeah. So, and I lasted one week until I booked a flight for a month later.

Speaker 2

I love that so much. You're like, I am a strong independent woman unless I'm in love.

Speaker 3

Exactly and don't listen to me. I love that so much.

Speaker 2

It makes my heart so happy hearing people's love stories. So I was like, tell me about that part because I feel like that part will be really cute. Oh my gosh. And now you're building a little life together. What's next?

Speaker 3

What's next is continuing the renovations, Yeah, and sort of getting the property up to what we need it to be. He wants to put a big shed on the property. So it's got a decent backyard and frontyard.

Speaker 2

Now good, Oh my gosh. I love that so much. That was essentially your answer to what is your best money habit? So I guess I now should ask you what's your worst money habit? And I promise everybody it's not going to be as long wind dead. So what do you reckon your worst money?

Speaker 1

How?

Speaker 3

That is my worst money habit is? Probably I can be quite impulsive. So if I want something, oh, generally hyper fixate on it, and I won't like weigh up the pros and cons necessarily, I will just hyper fixate on it until I press to kat and check out.

Speaker 2

That's actually quite funny. Are you putting twenty four hours between you and your spending.

Speaker 3

It might be an hour, it might be a week.

Speaker 2

Oh, but it's still hyper fixated and we're still going to do this regardless exactly.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I just I figure out ways to justify it. Regardless of how long it takes.

Speaker 2

You'll just spend a week justifying it and do it anyway.

Speaker 3

Exactly. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2

I'm going to say I love that, but I don't because it's obviously not great. But at the same time, I love that you're self aware about that and it clearly makes you happy, exactly exactly. All right, Well, unfortunately that is all we have time for today. It has been beautiful Money Diarist learning about your story and sharing

some really important tips in tricks. And I think that, apart from the fact that it's so cool to know that you got into your first home using Zella money, obviously I'm very biased, I also think it's just such a nice story to share because there are going to be people listening to this that are in not so great relationships or situations that they want to get out of, and knowing that not only have you gotten out of it, you have had an absolute glow up in you are

living your best life. It makes me so happy knowing you have a job that you love, and you've moved into your house and you're renovating it, and you have this partner that you're in love with, and it's just it's such a nice story to share because I think that being able to see that puts a light at the end of the tunnel for a lot of people. So I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Speaker 3

Yeah, absolutely, I'm really glad that I could share my story and hopefully inspire someone to leave that situation if they're in it. There's a lot of support, especially around on social media. So many of these groups that I'm in as well, they really helped sort of put things into perspectives. So yeah, really nice just communities around in girls groups and they've been really really helpful as well.

Speaker 2

My gosh, I love that so much. Thank you so much for sharing so much time with me. I really appreciate it, wells.

Speaker 3

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 4

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Speaker 2

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Speaker 4

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