Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr
the Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow.
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She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Hello, and welcome to She's When the Money the Podcast Millennials who want financial freedom. Today is Friday, which means it's time to get the team together to celebrate you the incredible She's on the Money community. But today is no ordinary Friday because it's Jessica Ricky right now. Victoria Divine is not with us, she's currently on maternity leave and it's me and Miss Becksayed holding down the fort.
Hi.
Guys, we do have a special guest though with us. We are going to have some friends of the show on over the next few weeks while v is on matt leave. Today, we do have a wonderful friend, Michelle Battersby. Welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor.
Thank you so much.
For those who don't know yourself or much about you, please give us a little a little rundown.
Wow. Okay. So I've worked in tech startups for the past nine years. I got my start in the tech industry. I was the seventh employee at Bumble globally. I was the first employee at Bumble in Australia and I launched the brand into the Astra Alien market and then into four other countries. And working at Bumble was really where I found my passion for working on products that bettered the lives of women and the people using them. So I've since gone on to start my own startup, which
is called Sunroom. It's based in LA I'm based in LA We've raised about seven million US dollars in venture capital and now we're taking that money building a product that puts money back in women and non binary creators hands. So yeah, that's me.
I guess incredible.
That is a phenomenal resume. It's always so hard when someone says to you, tell me about yourself, to sum up your whole experience as a human being into a few short sentences. But I must say, yours is absolutely killer, absolutely very impressive. Now, don't worry everybody, We're not going to switch up the format on you too much. Today we're going to be sharing some of our favorite money wins.
Beck is going to share some of her best brook tips, and we're going to be helping to answer a juicy money dilemma, which this week is all about taking a pay cut to work for a company that will get you future opportunities. And we're going to unpack something that you slid into our DMS about which this week is all about how to prioritize your finances, choosing to have kids or your lifestyle, which I think could be very
interesting to chat about. But before we get there, how's everybody's week been, Michelle?
What have you been up to?
Oh?
How's my week being?
Well?
I mean, speaking of Victoria being out, I'm nearly six months pregnant, so I'm navigating that as well. So it feels good to be helping out a fellow, you know, fresh mum to be Yeah, trying to just get my life in order. I've started to think about what I will do with my company as I approach birth, so there's a bit on I'm just getting ready for aw some change.
Is it really overwhelming because I guess for the average person, you have such a standard process. You take your parental leave, you know, you then decide whether you're going to re enter the workforce, but that's part time, full time. But watching VD go through it, when you're the owner of the company, there's not.
Really any rules.
You can do whatever you want, yeah, which I feel like to the average person you go, oh my god, that sounds amazing. But I can see that it is on the other side, very almost overwhelming, because you're so passionate generally you know about your company and the thing that you've built, but you're also I would imagine, extremely passionate and excited about the family and that new adventure. Have you found it hard to kind of figure out what to do because there's not really a blueprint for you.
Definitely, I feel it is such a privilege having your own company and navigating pregnancy at the same time, because you are able to make the rules. And I'm also very conscious similarly to Victoria. When you have so many women working for you as well, I feel like I really want to do this well and show them that if and when they choose to go through this, they'll
be supported by me and by Sun Room. I'm lucky because I actually reached out to our lead investor, which is an Australian VC fund, and they actually pulled together a women's circle type thing full of all the women that they'd invested in over the past few years that were moms or were becoming mums, and I was actually able to listen to how they navigated this as a founder, and some of them had some amazing approaches to how
they've done it. So I think I'm going to take a bit of a phased approach and I'm going to allow myself sometime where I'm not contacted unless it's for an emergency, and then I think I'm going to try and gradually enter my way back in. It will be quite soon. I think that's one of the downfalls of it being your own company is there never really is
that time off. But I'm also just trying to be flexible with myself and recognize that I have absolutely no idea what this is going to be like, and just set myself up with the support that I need and that Sunroom needs.
That's awesome. It's great to hear you know that you're modeling I guess for other women too, because I think for so long, you know, it's almost a scary thing like having a baby in your career, and yeah, I think having someone that people can look to and see how that experience goes is awesome.
Yeah, I've felt that as well, Like I've been the employee in so many companies where I haven't felt necessarily like I would be safe or supported through this, and I think that's a reality for many women. So I think it's very important that we are modeling it in a way that shows this is something that will be celebrated and won't be looked at as a threat to productivity, which unfortunately it is in some workforces.
One hundred percent, I feel like we're gonna have a really good conversation about this week's DM because yeah, I think it is so good. But before we get there, how's your week?
Beat?
What have you been up to?
My week has been absolutely lovely.
The weather's been as per usual, kind of nice, sometimes kind of not nice. Sometimes that's quite a right, but otherwise, yeah, just like you know, doing the usual. Yeah, gone with gym, hitting the waits, seeing friends and yeah watching I've watched saltburn about you guys, but.
What did you think? I've heard crazy reviews.
I loved it.
I was like waiting for something crazy to happen. I was like, hey, you know, I can't see anything that's.
You didn't think anything crazy? Did you watch it? I know, but I've heard a few of the key bizarre.
Sure, sure, sure, And that's obviously something that maybe.
You're not my normal behavior that I would choose to take in, but not your day to day I'm not here to youck anybody's young.
Of course, Michelle, have you watched it?
I haven't, and it's because I've been so scared by some of the stuff I've been saying on TikTok.
Yeah, don't be scared, guy.
Yeah, you're giving me the confidence to potentially watch it. Is it something I can watch alone? Or do I need company? You could absolutely watch it alone. It's scary or anything. It's honestly like, yeah, there are some weird things in there, or you know whatever, but it's such a great movie.
You can watch don't listen to TikTok. That's what stopped me as well, because I was like I need the Bible or something.
But honestly, it's like it's.
It's great movie. It's a great movie. M hm.
What about you?
How's your weep be in?
It's been good. It's been very very busy, you know. With VD heading off, I think we've been all hands on deck just trying to navigate through that. But it's really fun and I'm so excited to get to do things with you, spend a little bit of time together, chat tayg corgeous guests. I think it's going to be a really fun, exciting time for all of us. And I mean, any excuse to buy cute, tiny baby clothes for somebody totally signed me up. Absolutely dream I live for it totally.
I think that kind of takes us into your money wins for the week. Absolutely cheap, cheap, cheap baby clothes.
No cheap cheap baby clothes. But I did have a few really good ones. Let me r and you threw them. Okay, firstly, I've got a money win and very on theme with the baby thing from Kaylor who said I price checked nappies and found them to be eight cents per nappy cheaper at Costco, and when I got there there was also an instant rebate available.
Cool.
I didn't even know that that was a thing, but I love when people check the cost per unit.
I feel like that is so smart doing God's work.
Absolutely. Next, I've got a money when, also baby themed from Agnes who said I've been meaning to buy a new pair of docks. My feet have changed size since being pregnant, as my old ones didn't fit. Platypus had a sale and I purchased a new pair for one hundred and eighty dollars when it is normally three hundred. That's very seeing your feet changing size during pregnant.
Oh, I've heard this can happen, and I'm terrified because I'm already a forty so I really don't want them to be going up a size and apparently they can stay there once.
Oh no, no, it's like a second gross.
I'm not gonna lie watching VD go through it. Yeah, it is rare, the changes. I don't know that I'm so old if I'm mean, all sounds a joy in a mirror. Call for everybody else to totally love it. Next, I've got money in from Cass who said, my teacher goal is to not buy from the canteen this year
and take my own lunch every day. I found a brand new cute lunch box in an op shop marked for two dollars, and then when I went to pay, the volunteer marked my four items down from twenty four dollars to nine dollars, so I essentially got the lunch box for less than a buck. I googled the brand and it sells for anywhere between twenty five and thirty one dollars normally. Huh, discounts of the opshop. You love to see it.
Love to see it.
Didn't even know that was a thing I know. Next, I've got a money in from Rebecca, who said I bought my first ever ETF this morning and I've already made eighteen cents. And she put a wonderful picture.
Oh amazing.
I think that's the original photo.
I think so true.
I don't know if Michelle's going to be able to see this, but it's Rebecca Wilson, the Wolf of Wolf Street, and it's absolutely iconic.
Oh my god, so funny.
I love it when people put pictures in the thread. It is my absolute favorite thing. Ever. The next money when I feel like I have to read because Beck was looking over my shoulder because there is also a picture and it's from cheven and she said money when I've not purchased coffee at work in the past week, so I saved seven dollars per coffee. Some days I have three. So that's a huge savings for me. I got this bad boy and it works a treat, and I believe it is a thermos.
It does look like it could be a thermois or possibly you know what, like I know, if you had this mache but like you know, your grandparents wild always have those like muscle things that like massages, like those with the big head on the wall.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's I mean, that's what's reminded me of. And it is like a little you know, I don't know though, but yes, that's lovely.
Is it?
Sex toy? Is that the vibe you're getting?
Can you? That's what the camera so she can see it.
And especially because when you had like when you had it hadn't one. Oh yeah, it looked before she scrawl, before she scrolled, it looked like the rabbit.
I was like, oh my god, I think it's.
It's the fact that there's liquid coming out of it as well. There's a lot going on, but that is a great win. Chevon, very pleased for you. And then lastly, I have a money win from Izzy, who said I taught my mom how to use Facebook marketplace to sell extra furniture she wanted to get rid of and now she's making a little bit of money on the side on some great quality items that otherwise would have gone out to her curb for someone to pick up for free. Yeah,
mum technology. And now we've decided that anyone that comes on the show, because you're so involved in the community, we would love to hear from you as well. So Michelle, do you have a money win or a money loss to share with us this week.
I've got a sad money loss. So I bought something online the other week and as I was purchasing it, I thought, I don't know if this is gonna work, but I must return it if it doesn't. And it didn't work. I actually got a bump one of those bump suit dresses, and I was like, so key, and you know, I get to wear a bump suit. Now I'm getting a bump and it wash not not for.
Me at all.
And then you know when it just gets away from you time and you print the label and it's all feeling like a chore you just don't want to do. And then I forgot that it was a long weekend in the US, and now I've missed the deadline, and so I may as well have just flushed, you know, one hundred and fifty dollars down the toilet.
Do you reckon?
You can just chuck it in the post and just hope that nobody notices I've done that before. I missed it by well, especially with the long weekend. If you if like, if they questioned it, just say, oh, I popped it in a post box on Sunday and they must have just had a backlog from the week. You know.
I don't even know if we have post boxes in America. I feel like a postage system here is very dated. I've never seen a post Oh my god, do.
You have to say a post sack sack around?
Yeah, that would be crazy.
I don't know anyway, that's my loss, just a bit of laziness.
Oh yeah, ckon, you could sell it for a similar price.
I could, but I'm also lazy in that regard. That's a lot of us at that sort of thing and like eBay and d pop. But yeah, no, I.
Think it's hard, especially when you're hauling around a whole extra human to do all your tasks as well. I feel like that makes everything ten times more of.
A chore than normal, totally. You know, when I do things like that, sometimes I try and think, like, oh, let's pretend that this coffee instead of six dollars or seven dollars, and I just add, like delegate those funds to other things and pretend in my mind that they were more expensive, you know what I mean. So let's pretend your jumper was way more expensive than you know. You know, does that make does it make you feel better?
Or does that make or maybe I'll buy something on sale next week and I'll see Yeah exactly, girl, math a bit of it, Yeah, exactly exactly.
All right, Beck, Have you got any broke tips to share with us this week? I do.
I have one from the community and one from myself, and then I believe Michelle has one.
Of her own. I'll start with the community broke tip.
This one comes from Xavier who says an exercise reframing, So go to the supermarket, set yourself a ready steady cook style challenge of cooking with only four ingredients, ideally
those four ingredients that are on special. That doesn't have to be the case, but I think this is a really good idea just kind of like making it obviously like not to like trivialize or like, you know, speak about someone's really really genuinely hard money circumstance or something that can be turned into fun, because it absolutely can't. It sometimes is really bad. And you know, I'm not
trying to you know, do that at all. But if you are just trying to save money, or if you are just a little bit broke and waiting for your next payday and it's not so bad, then this is a really fun way to kind of just like I don't know, just yeah, just reframe it, you know, be like, you know what, this week, I'm gonna, yeah, make a you know, do a challenge for myself by things that are either only on special, or make recipes that are only three or four ingredients, or only use what's in
my house, like kind of like you know, sitting yourself fun challenges in that way gamifying.
It is a really good trick for people with ADHD. That's how a lot of people manage to keep tho zelves on track, is like by turning those mundane every day touts. So maybe if you just eat, don't even like cooking, that could be a good way to get yourself into cooking is gamified a little bit. I like that Ready Steady cook, so act like a co host to get a little microphone out set of time off you, and then.
You could judge your own food with a little like you know, what are the capscum and tomato sign y?
Yeah?
I think that was.
My broke tip for this week. This is kind of like something I used to do. I want to kind of do this more. But I bought a seven dollar French press from Kmart and a two dollar stick milk frother you guys know those like little I guess it's like a milkshake froterer as.
Well, the wy ones, the wizzy ones.
Yeah, and I would just instead of going out and buying coffee, I would just make myself coffee home, which seems like a really really easy, like common sensical sort of way to save money. I totally get that but when you really think about it, like you don't have to spend heaps of money on like a coffee machine or really expensive milk froth literally seven dollar French press, two dollar milk froth, and that'll I don't know, that'll
get you. I think it came from because I would spend like six dollars per day at least on.
So that's like a day's worth of coffee to buy your set up pretty much exactly.
And then what do you spend like two dollars on oat milk or whatever. You buy maybe seven dollars for coffee that'll last you like two three weeks, so so so so much cheaper than buying coffee out, So do try. This is also kind of like reframing, which will lead me into Michelle's one. I'm tending yourself these little challenges and it might be fun.
I love that, Michelle. Please feel free to share you.
On there is a theme because mine is a little bit of a reframe as well. So I was reading an article the other day and it said that thirty nine percent of working Americans have a side hustle. I
have two side hustles. I make money on my own app, Sunroom and then I write a monthly column for the SMH and the Age, and I've started just putting the money from those two side hustles into a separate bank account that I just don't look at, and I feel like it's this bonus money that just exists over there. And I think with the cost of living, I think side hustles are just going to become more and more common.
But I think we often think about a side hustle as like you're starting some second business on the side and it needs to then become your dominant form of income. But really a side hustle can just be about optimizing something that you're already doing or something that you really enjoy and finding a way to monetize that. Like if you are creating content on the Internet and putting it
out there for free user monetization platform. If you are really opinionated and love writing, start a substack and look at a way to monetize a newsletter deepop if you're really into clothes freelancing. There's so many platforms that now exist that will allow people to become virtual assistants and these sorts of things, and it doesn't need to take up a huge amount of your time, Like I would say, about three hours a week of mine is put into
these side hustles. So I think a side hustle, not seeming like some daunting big thing, is another good way to maybe just like dip your toe in the water and start to look for ways where you can bring any of it and even an extra three hundred dollars a month or five hundred dollars a month that could really make a difference in today's society.
Oh my god, I completely agree. I love a side hustle. Of the listeners know, and anyone who follows me on TikTok would know. I did a thousand dollar challenge just at the end of last year. I needed a little bit of extra cash to get to the savings goal that I had for my house deposit. And I made a grand in two weeks. And it was nothing strenuous. It was just selling stuff on Facebook marketplace, selling stuff on deepop. I picked up a few social media jobs online,
I did surveys, like I tested like a million different things. Yes, yeah, which I know is very controversial, but it worked for me for that short time period, and I was just like that little sprint of a couple of weeks for it. A thousand dollars is a lot of money, and it was just by picking up all these little bits and pieces, and as you said, it's just it was a supplementary for me. I need to hit this goal. I have this thing that I really want to do. How do
I get there? And it was perfect. It's kind of again going back to that idea of gamifying. Wow, we're really all on the same page now, so we're all vibing. I love it. Let's go to a really quick break and when we come back, we're going to be answering a juicy money question, which is all about taking a pay cut to work for a company that will give you great opportunities in the future, and also unpack a DM about prioritizing your financewers or choosing to have kids. Don't go anywhere.
Welcome back everyone. Here's our money dilemma for this week.
Hi, there, have you.
Got a money dilemma you just can't solve? The Sheese on the Money team is here to help. Every week, we tackle your dilemmas, both big and small, to answer your most burning money.
Career and life questions.
To get involved, simply head to our website and leave us a short voice recording, and you might just find yourself on the show. Now, let's take a listen to this week's money dilemma.
Hey, team, I was hoping you'd be able to help me with a career question. Currently, I mean a really well paying job. However, I feel as though I have outgrown it and I'm looking to move on to another company. However, as I have been looking for jobs, I've realized that the skills I have are more equal to lower paying
jobs at other companies. My question is, do you think it's worth taking a step back, not only in my pay but in my career to go to a company that will hopefully provide me with better opportunities in the future. I'm really struggling with the cost of living at the moment, so taking a pay cut is not something I'm super keen about.
Makes a lot of sense.
I'm super interested to get your thoughts because when I think of successful women, Michelle, you are someone that is like right at the top of my mind, and I think that you've done so many incredible things, and when we look at your career externally, it just looks like you've been at the top of your game for so long, But would you do something like that, would you take a pay cut to move for opportunity, or would you prioritize something different.
I mean, firstly, thank you, and I think, like this isn't about me, but it might be a good anecdote because just you saying, you know, it looks like I've been at the top of my game. When I made the decision to start my own business, I put myself on a fifty five thousand dollars salary. You know, I went from earning hundreds of thousands, and I'm so lucky to have been able to pay myself from the start.
Many people cannot. But going from something quite big, really stable, really comfortable, to something from the ground up did really feel like a backward step. So I think when you are, you know, it was it was short term pain, long term gain type thing. But even now I'm not on a huge salary, I think people would probably assume it's bigger than it is. I pay myself today one hundred and twenty five thousand, and that's why I have these
side hustles and I do other things. And I think it's good to work for a founder that's like hungry and trying to, you know, make a dollar as well. I think when you're making these decisions, there's many things to consider, but I do think you have to also check your ego a little bit, check your pride going backwards or what feels like a side step usually setting yourself up for a much greater leap further down the track.
And I also think it comes down to what you value and what your priorities are, Like if you feel like you've outgrown the role, maybe you value a challenge and learning opportunities more than you do the money. And I think this person's in a great position because they're in a high paying role at the moment, and it doesn't sound like they desperately need to get out the door at this very second, so I think they could start to save in preparation for maybe taking a smaller salary.
I think they also need to have the conversations internally at their current workplace, like is there truly no more opportunity for career growth or challenges or promotion and things like that. And I also would be interested to know how they're assessing that their current skills aren't going to get them the same amount of money elsewhere. Like, have
they definitely done the interviews? Have they sold themselves? Because what someone will choose to pay you or can pay you does end up being based on more than just the skills you have. You know, it's the potential that someone sees in you, it's your results. So if you've really dug into what you've been able to bring to
the table in your previous role. So I would also recommend to this person, like, don't take yourself out of the game before it's even started, Like there is an opportunity for you to negotiate your way in and you might be surprised, like you're on X salary already with your current skills, So I would feel like you could
use that as some bargaining power as well. But I'm the kind of person where if I'm not feeling challenged, if I'm not feeling growth, I will leave and I will be okay to go backwards or go sideways and take less money if I feel like it's going to get myself further in the future. But I also think like, as women, we know that we can hold ourselves b
back in that regard as well. And you know, it's proven that men will put themselves forward for jobs and not even qualified for with the skills, So I don't like over over analyze as well, like give yourself a shot. And also sorry I'm really going on here, but how they said that they wanted to make sure you know they were taking that smaller salary for further career opportunities, like make sure you know exactly what those opportunities look like.
And is there a way you can negotiate a pay review in six months because you back yourself to do a B and C in six months and like get that in writing.
Those awesome advice it sounds a lot like your ladder theory.
Yes, that's so true.
I always say it's better to start at the bottom of a ladder that you want to climb, rather than halfway up one you don't want to climb, You know what I mean?
Oh absolutely, I love that.
Yeah, thank you.
That's like one of my favorite things you've said.
Show.
It really stuck in my brain.
Oh my goodness, that's actually huge here, Thank you so much. Well, there is risk of me butchering that entirely, but basically I think also like once that kind of mindset sets in and you're a little bit like disenchanted or just like lacking motivation. It's very heart to like get out of that. Regardless of you know, having chats with your I mean, it can happen. You can have a chat with your leader and find out that there's, you know, a way to upskill or move to a different department
or whatever it is within your current company. But I think once that feeling sets in, even if you decide to stay there and just maybe try and change your mindset or whatever, that honestly doesn't last long.
That feeling keeps coming back.
So I feel like if you do know exactly as you're saying that there are opportunities somewhere else, and there's potential for growth, potential for upskilling, potential for all these things, just you know, a bit of a pay cut might be little one might be a big one.
I probably personally would.
Go for that over because it's also yeah, it's also just like your overall morale and motivation and things like that you need to consider.
So yeah, I'd probably go for it.
Have either of you taken a pay cut for a job, a new job opportunity, I.
Think I did early in my career. I've lived a lot of career lives. Like I'm one of those people who I think, like, did start in one space. I didn't go to university. I just worked full time out of high school. I was working retail. I was managing a retail store, and I, you know, have lived many a life and done many a job changing and jumping and side stepping and up skilling to get to where I am now. And I think that, yeah, I would agree.
When I first moved from retail to my first what I call my big girl job, which was I worked at a real estate agency as an EA, I took a little bit of a pay cut. I'm pretty sure because I've never worked in my job. And it's interesting because my experience in that negotiation and that conversation was kind of mirroring what you were saying, Michelle in the you know, I had a lot of the skills that transferred. I had a lot of the things that I could do.
But I remember when I was having those conversations around salary, and don't get me wrong, it was still a very low salary because I was twenty one and I was entering the you know, professional workforce for the first time. But the conversation that was kind of brought to me was that because I didn't have demonstrated experience in that field, because it was a different field, they felt that I should be coming in at the bottom of the salary band.
And at the time, I think I just kind of went okay, yeah, like it's worth it to get to where I want to go. Like if you take a little bit of a pay cut, you take a little bit of a pay cut, and it wasn't huge because the money just generally was low. It was close to minimum ways, you know, there wasn't that far to go down. But I think, like for me, it felt worth it
to move into a new space. And so I can see if our listener is maybe moving industries, or even if they're staying within their industry but they're moving into a different space. Like maybe you work in administration, but you want to move into administrative management, or you know, something like that. Like if you're moving into a slightly different space, and it's worth it to learn the hard skills that you need that you don't have. Maybe you've got a lot of soft skills that do transfer, but
the hard ones aren't quite there. I can see how someone doing the interview might say oh, we feel like we just can't give you that higher salary. I would say, don't forget to negotiate other perks too. So if you are taking a lower salary, can you work hybrid or can you work remote? Can you negotiate perks? Can you do you know, a thirteen day fortnight or something like that? There are all of these other things, and we say
everything is kind of up for negotiation. And I know when you're making that move, and especially when you are in the position where you're being asked to take a pay cut, I remember feeling like I was not in the power seat at all because I was almost asking them to do me a favor. It felt like I was saying, please give me this opportunity, Like I know that I don't necessarily have the proven track record, but I'm a hard worker and I'm a go getter, and I can do all of these great things for you.
And I think you do feel a little bit like the powers with the employer because you're asking them to take a risk on you. I think, like, don't forget to lean on the value that you bring in your personality, like being you can't teach somebody to have the personality type that as you were saying, Michelle, and as you were saying as well, to be the kind of person that wants to improve is so valuable in an employee.
Like how many people just coast buy doing their job, collecting their check, you know, clocking off, never thinking twice about it. Which if that's what you want to do that I'm not saying that that is a bad thing, but I think if you are somebody who has a company and you want to grow and you want to do all of these great things, what you really need is employees who buy in. And you can't teach that to somebody. It needs to come with them, and it is something that money can't buy.
I think that hotely true that yeah, yeah, it is, Like it's the attitude, and I think it's really it actually is really easy to stand out as a high achiever and someone who's really committed and someone who's really driven in organizations and show that you're that person who's willing to go the extra mile, like even at the end of a day saying, hey, I'm about to pack up, is there anything I can help you with before I go?
Like so many people don't do that and just just dip doing that, Like, rarely is someone going to be like they're walking out the door, I'm going to quickly give them something like that will really happen. But just you doing that, I think just shows that you actually give a shit and like putting your hand up like that, it really goes a long way.
Yeah, is there any tips that you have for someone who is in that spot they're going to interview for a job. Maybe they feel like they're side stepping a little bit, maybe they feel like they're not in the power seat. Is there one tip that you would give them on something that they could share to showcase their value.
So I used to work in HR before I got into startups, and I worked at investment banks and basically the way all salaries were negotiated was based on three things. It was role, experience, output, And I think if you are constantly looking at those three things about yourself, you will have the right sort of things to bring into an interview and to bring into any kind of negotiation
about your salary. It also removes any like personal attachment to the conversation because you're looking at the facts and to your point about going into real estate, and you're not having the experience. That's just one of those three things, you know, like how are you going to deliver in the role, Like what output do you have that like
might you know, inspire someone's confidence in you. But also how you then renegotiate your salary a year later, really focusing on like the role, how you fulfill it, the experience that you do have to potentially try and bump up a salary, and the output, which is really just results and hard facts. So I guess that's like the three things that I'm kind of always on the lookout for, but I think they are also just the main things
you should be focusing on if you're ever discussing salary. Oh. Actually, one really good thing is when you are looking, you're focusing on the role. I used to always gather market data, so if you're in Australia, like go on the Hayes website and for free, you will be able to see similar roles in your state and you'll be able to
see what the average salary is. And that's a really good thing to have up your sleeve if you're negotiating your salary, Like, hey, I've actually pulled the market data and I can see that I'm being underpaid and here's my output and here's my experience. And obviously, like business is always going to be in different kind of positions like are they downsizing? Have you just missed a performance review cycle? Like you do need to consider your timing.
But I think that's a really good way to approach and be prepared for those kinds of conversations.
It's a great idea.
Let's jump into my favorite bit of the week, the JUICYDM that we've received. Are you guys ready to hear it?
So?
Ready?
All right? They said, Hey, girls would love some advice. The other night, I was at a family dinner and my sister was talking about how having a child has been really tough on their finances. She was saying she can eat out anymore, can't go on holidays, can't afford a babysitter for date night with her partner, and the list just went on. My mom then pointed the conversation towards me and my partner and asked us when we were planning on having a baby. In response, I said,
I don't want to have kids. I just want lots of money to live the lifestyle I want to live. Slay Quinn My sister was so offended by this comment, saying it was offensive to her lifestyle and insensitive to say this after she had spoken about how much she was struggling financially. I really don't think I did anything wrong. It should be okay for me to choose myself on the lifestyle I desire over having kids. But my sister made me feel like I am selfish for doing this.
Any thoughts, there's so many components to me.
Oh no, there are a lot of layers.
I feel like there's, like, you know, there's the maybe you know, the argument of women having children, not having children whatever. Like I feel like we're in a different time of life now.
Four it's twenty twenty four.
You absolutely don't have to be having child if you don't want, and you can if you want to, and you whatever whatever whatever. Families look all different everywhere you go all the time. So this is kind of like a question. More so, I would say it's less of a finance question and more of a like a reddit.
Am I the asshole?
And in this situation, no, but I would probably maybe have been more tactful and possibly not talk about how rich you want to be Directly following your sister may be airing some grievances.
About being really broke. I don't know.
Yeah, it feels like, yeah, maybe it's too close together those two conversations. You're not bad for saying that.
I feel like I am about to, in fact be the asshole, because I am at the stage in my life where several of my friends now have children, which I love and adore. I'm a big fan of kids, and when I was younger, I always thought I wanted children, And now I'm at a place where I have my career and my lifestyle and I don't necessarily know that
that's something I want to have. And I don't think that's a problem any which way, whether I do, whether I don't, whether my friends do, with my friends don't, everybody is welcome to live life the way that they want. Something that I have observed that is interesting, though, is I feel like a lot of the time things are
catered to the people who have children, just socially. Whether it's when you're choosing where to go, it's got to be somewhere that's close to home, that is family friendly, that is dada da da da, or if you're going on holiday, like it needs to have certain things for the people who have children, which is all fine and well and good, but sometimes that means that there is a different financial element too. We might need a house with extra rooms because the kids have to have their
own rooms. Sure, you know things like that. And it's really interesting to me because I think you've chosen to have children, and I have at this point don't have children, and we're living our own lives and we're doing whatever. But there are points where you know there are benefits or there are things that are done in favor from my perspective, for the people who do have kids, And it's I mean, if it was an issue, I would
raise it and I would bring it up. But it just is a very interesting observation because I think, yeah, like the benefit of not having kids is you're not paying for a whole extra expensive human being. But when you chose to have children, you knew that that would be the case. I think we spoke on an episode recently about you know how expensive pets are, and not to liken a child to a pet, but you're taking
on a financial responsibility. Like we know there's a lot of data around how much money it takes to raise a child, particularly in the first twelve months of their life, it is just unbelievably expensive. And then you get to school and you kind of know that, for at the bare minimum, the next eighteen years, you have a significant
financial responsibility in that child. And if you've chosen to take that on, I would assume that you understood that that might mean, you know, depending on whether or not a parent has gone back to work, depending on whether or not you know you have a side hustle or whatever, you might miss out on date night, or you might not get to go on holiday because of that financial
burden that you have chosen to take on. You knew that that was coming when you got pregnant, And so I think it is a little bit shortsighted of her sister to be really offended. I understand how stressful being under financial pressure is, and I do not want to minimize what the sister is feeling, because I know that that is awful. But I do also think it is a little bit hypocritical of her to be mad because her sister chose to live a different lifestyle. Sure does
that make sense. I'm trying to be tactful. I suppose I'm like I don't want to be a dick about it, but I do think that she made a choice and she's now living with the results.
Of that choice.
But it is very complicated.
Yeah, I think the sister who's had the baby was probably just looking more to feel validated and supported and get a little bit of empathy in that situation. And then that's so true when she didn't receive that, it was probably more of a reaction to that, and it was less about her judging her sister for, you know, choosing to be child free. I don't think that's where
like being sensitivity comment came from. I think it's more around that she didn't feel supported in that moment, and she probably just needed to hear yeah, wow, like that must be really hard. Maybe she was hoping someone would put their hand up and say, hey, would love to look after your baby one night a month, so you
can have that date night. And I also think there's probably a splash of envy in there that her sister, who is choosing to be child free, will be able to pursue a life that has some elements that she also feels like she wants but can't have at the moment, and maybe she will have those things further down the path,
but for now it doesn't feel that way. I think one of the things I think we really need to try not to do as a society, and it's easier said than done, is to make it like an US verse them conversation when it comes to having children real
or not having children. I think there are already so many pressures on and it's always on women, like no matter what way you go, and that's even you've made the decision if you want to have children or not have children, Like there's that whole cluster fuck in the
middle of like if, when, how? And I think there's so many ways that society is set up to like pit us against each other, And so I think when we're having these conversations when it comes to children, it's like, how can we just be more like supportive, understanding, open minded, and a little bit more accepting of the paths people
have chosen. I also often think about the fact that it's like people assume if you don't have children, you're just automatically rich, and I wonder how that feels when you are someone who's chosen to be child free, but you also can't afford to travel and you also can't afford the date nights. So there's just there's so much to unpack, Like even the mile asking when are you having kids?
Like, let's not ask it feels inappropriate.
Yeah, yeah, more like is a kid something you've thought about?
You know?
Is that's something yond? But yeah, I think these are just deeply personal things that are very very nuanced. But I think if we can be like less like us, verse them and more as a collective women understanding that it's a super high pressure like societal expectation, like challenging time no matter what way you go, we could probably understand each other all a little bit better.
Yeah, so true.
I love that we did ask people a couple of really quick questions. So firstly, we said, do you have children? Thirty percent of people said yes, I do. Seventy percent people have said no, way do not.
Interesting.
Then we said, if yes, have you had to give up holidays, eating out, et cetera due to the increased financial costs of having children? Fifty eight percent of people said yes and forty two percent of people said no. Then we said, have you decided not to have children due to the costs associated with being a parent? Twenty percent of people said yes, forty six percent of people said no, and thirty four percent of people said I'm
considering it. So if you combined the yes and that I'm considering it, it's fifty four percent of people are changing or considering changing their decisions based on the financial costs associated with parent wood. Lastly, we said if yes, have you felt any judgment from friends and family around this decision? And sixty five percent of people said unfortunately, yes, I have been wow, which is crazy, which I guess
really goes back to what you were saying, Michelle. Going back to my example, because I feel like I didn't articulate it well. The observations that I've made were just observations I guess about the way that it works. But everybody is always so happy to accommodate for the parents, and I think that that is the important factor, Because as you were talking, I was like, Oh, I feel like I really sounded like a bit of a bitter jerk. I don't know not what I intended for.
I don't think so at all. I get it, like, I think the default has always been that this is what's expected. You know, you have kids, you start a family, and the default probably is to accommodate for the people, yeah that have kids, And like I delayed starting a family for so long, and I remember because of my career, and I remember feeling like this detachment from my friends that were doing that, like the West starting families, and
I was starting to feel isolated. And I wish I'd thought like a little bit more about that at the time, but I think I was so in my head of like when if how that I don't think I was very understanding or considerate of them, and they probably weren't that understanding or considerate of me either. I also think it's so interesting to think about like our generation. I'm
not sure how old you guys are. I'm thirty two, and I feel like there'll be so many of us that are never grandparents because I think our children will choose not to have children, you know. And so I think it's really good for us to be super accepting of people that choose not to have children and understand that there is still so much like earth value, Like many of them work with children, many of them give to children. Like there's this weird thing where it's like
you must hate children. Yeah, but that isn't it? At all, and I think we all need to get very comfortable with that because like for our parents that expect to be grandparents, like they have some ownership on that. I don't want to be, you know, a fifty year old and putting pressure on my child about when they're going to have a baby. I don't feel like I'm entitled
to ever be a grandparent. And so I just think it's something we all need to be like reading about, engaging in that content, supporting our friends who are choosing not to, who are choosing to. I think all paths are courageous and they require self awareness and a lot of thought.
Yeah, that is such a perfect summary of it. And yeah, like if everyone just was more accepting and considerate of everybody, hopefully everyone would have a better time.
Totally in general, I love that.
What a great episode. Thank you Michelle so much for joining us. If people want to keep up with you and everything that you're doing, where can they find.
Oh, you can buy me on Instagram Michelle Battersby. You can also find my business their sunroom dot. So that's basically it.
My incredible avoid You're like, I don't want to see I'm very different over there.
If you are a creator looking to monetize what you're doing. Sunroom is an awesome option. It's such an incredible supportive community, as you were saying, of women and non binary people who are just creating their own, safe, incredible spaces on the Internet which we love to see. Thank you so much for joining us, everybody, and Victoria will see you Brandon early on Monday. From Money Darry, have a beautiful weekend.
Bye guys.
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