How Victoria Devine Built a Multimillion-Dollar Small Business

or the Order Kerni Whaltbury and a waddery woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow.

six million miles an hour. Like I am the type of person who thrives in chaos, which is not everybody, right, Like, I'm the type of person where if you give me one thing to do for an entire day, beck, I'm doing it at eleven fifty nine PM right before, like I cannot do it earlier, Like most normal people would be like one thing to do, let's just knock that off this morning so I can have a free day.

I'm actually going to cripple myself with analysis paralysis for the entire day going I can't do anything until this other thing is done. But I'm not going to do it. I'm just going to stress about having not done it. But if you gave me fifty things to do in one day, I thrive, Like I will get up early. I'm back to back. I can work my butt off.

And that's not to say that everybody with ADHD does it that way, That's just how I operate, and so as somebody who thrives during chaos, I think I've always known that I wanted to be in control of that chaos. And I'm also very aware that that makes me not a good employee, Like it doesn't make me the best person to work for you, because I run my own schedule and it doesn't matter how important it is. If I for some reason I'm not motivated, I'm just not going to do it, and that's not a good thing.

I wish I was a bit different and could be like, oh well, my boss asked me to do X, y Z, like I'm just not that good at it. And it used to take a lot of energy for me to do those things when I was employed. And I mean I did get feedback like oh V you don't seem to take this seriously. In the back of my head, I'm like this because I don't care, and that's not cool. That's not cool. So for me to be a business owner meant a lot more control. And I also just

I love new stuff. I love shiny stuff. Having ADHD means like I get very excited about something new, a brand new idea, a new hobby, a new whatever. So creating kind of comes very naturally to me, I would say. So I feel like, with all of that in mind, it leads me down wanting to be a business owner and taking a few steps backwards. I didn't know what that meant. I've always like been a little bit entrepreneurial, like sold stuff as I'm growing up. Like you know,

I was selling friendship bracelets at school. You want a scooby, I'll make you a scooby. I will charge you for the scooby. I also used to sell my notes, so like I used to take like really good notes. And one of the reasons I took such good notes at school and in university was because I knew I could sell them. It wasn't even because I was trying to learn at that point. Like, my motivations have always been

a little bit different to other people's. So I guess that's what led me to wanting to be a business owner. But what got me into finance was I have For those of you who maybe don't know my backstory, I have two degrees in psychology. I have my undergraduate degree, I have a postgraduate degree, and then I have an MBA and I started psychology. I'm so interested in how people work. I'm so interested in having an impact and hopefully making other people's lives better. But then, really, once

I got my first job, that was not it. Like I worked in consulting in psych and just realized I didn't like the corporate vibes. I didn't like being told what to do by mediocre, middle aged white men who I didn't think knew what they were talking about. I consistently, and this is not me saying I did know better, but I consistently felt as though I could do these

things better. And I think that for a lot of the part, I won't say I wasn't wrong, but it was because I was always so willing to try something new, try something different, Like there's a new system we could try, why aren't we trying that? Like I was consistently being told no, that's the way we've always done it. I'd be like, but we don't have to, you know. So

didn't love that. Ultimately ended up in the finance space because one of my clients when I was working in orgsych was a financial advisor, and I'm like, oh my goodness, like this is cool, Like it's not as much about

numbers as it is about impacting people's lives. And like I was taking all this advice home to my friends and my family and being like, Beck, did you know about super Like it's so cool, Like you can get really rich doing X Y Z, And Yeah, I ultimately became my career and I decided that when I was going to do that, I didn't want to do it for somebody else. Like I could see the structure. I did work in that structure as an employed financial advisor for a bit, but that was kind of to find

my feet. And once I started Zella, I loved it. I loved being in control of my day. I loved, you know, being able to set the guidelines of how my business would work, not just for my clients, not just for me, but also for my staff. Like something that I have held very very close to me is making sure that my staff for enjoying work hopefully as much as I do, and giving them like I employee adults, Beck,

let's just treat them that way. Yeah, you don't thrive in the morning, don't start in the morning like I need you to do this amount of work. I don't care how you get it done, Like I think that that respect is not something that comes often. But then once you have that in a business, that impacts the clients, it impacts how outcomes, Like it means that as a business, like we're thriving because the vibes are just high all the time. Yeah, and people want to be involved in that, right, Yes.

So I think that's kind of where Zella came from. It was from me essentially wanting to control everything and something I don't think i've shared publicly before. I mean I've mentioned it on like my Instagram stories like once or twice. But when I started Zella Beck, it's so hard to name a business, Like how do you even name a business? Oh my god, I know, Like what

do I call it? Divine associates? There's many words. If I was going to become a financial advice business, like Victoria, divine financial advice or divine advisor, it all sounds like terrible, divine g Yeah, like all of it's crap be And so I was brainstorming with my mom and my mom was like, why don't you use your nana's name? Oh, so, Zella is actually my grandmother's name. That's her first name.

Gorgeous name exactly, and it's not very common. And I think that given I wanted to start a business that impacted women, it made sense to name it after one of the most powerful women I know. And then I was like, oh cool, Like Zella sounds fun, like it's giving like strong vibes. When I looked up the brand Zella Beck, it means the one who knows the way. Like that's perfect, so perfect. I think that everything from

the beginning when I started, it just felt right. It just felt like it started in the way that it was meant to start. And yeah, like it's still a business that thrives today. I suppose it's a bit different to the financial advice business that I started. And then ultimately, She's on the Money came from to explain that a little bit. I feel like I'm just yapping, but to explain that a little bit She's on the money was

actually initially a workshop. So it was me, as a baby financial advisor, going, I want to work with women. How do I work with women? You know what I could do? I could run lunch and learn sessions. I could run a lunch and learn session and go into your workplace, back, sit down, your hate. Hopefully we'll like buy some sandwiches and then I'm going to be up the front talking about financial advice. I'm going to tell

you about super savings, all of that stuff. And they got really popular, but initially I was running them from all genders or literally anyone. And I realized that in more corporate settings, women weren't putting their hands up, like, women weren't asking the hard questions right. They were emailing me after to be like, hey, so you mentioned this. I was just wondering xyz, and I was thinking, like, why aren't you putting your hand up? And it was

because the male colleagues in the room often dominated the conversation. Yes, oh you will open investing since it's just sit down Craig like. And so I decided to add to my offering of like my financial advice workshops, a female only one because you know, when you get women together, they support each other. And yeah, the She's on the Money

workshop was born. And then I thought, let's make a Facebook group because all of these women we could like chat, like, we could ask these questions and like back each other. If we had like a platform we could all connect on. If you've been to one of my workshops, joined my Facebook group, so like, if you went to one of my early workshops, you know that my last slide was always like a stay connected and it was like a

link to my Facebook group. And yeah, when that Facebook group got big, got to like seventeen hundred people, I remember thinking that was the most amount of people in the entire universe. Beck Like, I just thought that was so many people. It's close too. Yeah. I asked them what they wanted, and they said video content and I said absolutely not, like I hate being in front of the camera, hypocritical. Now a right, look at it. I'll give you a podcast. And so we went down that

route and then just never stopped. And I guess that's where She's on the Money was born. But I think a lot of people assume She's on the Money came first, and then I built a business from that. But the financial advice or the like more fuddy duddy legitimate business has always been my like base or my foundation.

like that was an investment that I was making. Yeah, and it was something that I was so passionate about I wanted to support. Now it definitely makes money and it employs eight women full time, which is so cool. But yeah, the financial advice business or now mortgage broking business, I think is my bread and butter and where I would say I spend most of my time. Yeah, people again find very surprising.

could be a podcast, maybe we could do something. And I mean initially I thought that the podcast would literally be twelve episodes and that would be it. And then Beck, if you had any questions, I'd send you back to one of those twelve episodes that I'd done and you could have the advice there. I thought that that would be it, and that's why it's so funny. I actually get a lot of messages about this. People were like,

weren't you involved with Shameless Media at the start? But yeah, absolutely, And I think people think there's tea there to share. They're like, oh, like, what happened nothing, Like we're still on good terms. I just engaged them to produce the first twelve episodes because I didn't know how to make a podcast, and they were lovely and beautiful and all of those things. But when the podcast literally blew up and did really well, I don't think any of us

anticipated it to do as well. And they were a thriving business that didn't have capacity to do another season of the podcast when I wanted to, so I did it myself. And that's the tea pic. I think people go, oh, well, what happened there. It's like, well, they had some really cool options on the table for them at the time,

and they'd already signed off on them. Like remember when they did like Bumble podcast and like that love Like they did so much cool stuff and their actual podcast was thriving, Like they just didn't have capacity to do another season and edit it all and you know, do the hard yards with cheese on the money, so I outsourced it and just did it myself.

hot second. But like if it was me, i'd want to do product and oh my god, I'd want to do stationary like stationary Oh yes, Beck, Like I don't think anyone saw that coming, But I'd want to do like notebooks and planners and post it notes like all of these, like esthetic ones like I would want like little letter writing kids, like you know, really good quality tactile paper, and like journals that you actually want to use, like that are really well planned that like, don't just

do your diary, they do like your budget, Like these are things that I would love to do in the future. And I think it would work because I have an audience who are already interested in that and they know I love making a plan, like I don't think it's a secret. I love organizing, I love planning. I love a container like I think that that would bring all

of that together for me. And that's why I think, you know, I would look at it and go, well, that hopefully would work, and if it didn't work, I'd have a really good time because up until now, the businesses I've run a not product based, like I've never apart from my books, never gotten to hold something in my hands and be like, this is my product I can sell, Like it would just be cool to see people, you know, putting my product in their handbag and stuff

like that. But if I was to look at a product and I didn't have a pre existing audience or a business, and I was trying to work out whether it was a good idea, I would really be working out my community first. I would be wanting to look at like, okay, cool, who am I actually serving here?

Because it's going to be much harder for you to start a business if you're going to be trying to convince someone that your product is important, Whereas if you can create a community and then service their needs and take them on the journey, you won't be selling. You'll be responding to a need that your community has. So I think working out, well, what problem does this product solve? Like, what does this provide? How does this work? I think

is the question you need to be asking yourself. And it's a hard question because sometimes you're wildly passionate about something and it might just be you. So we need to be a little bit more pragmatic about going Well, let's just like look at this, like if I scaled this, how many people are going to buy it? If I did this, how many people want that service? And what would their expectations be if I did offer it like time, energy, effort, like the client experience. What does that all look like?

And I think that that's what I would be looking at.

that you have with us. But like, I'm not trying to convince you that I'm the right business for you, because I think that when brands do that, they often die their value because they're trying to appeal to everybody. Like I'm acutely aware that she's on the money isn't for everybody, and I'm okay with that. I'm not trying to be everything to everybody, because when you do, you can't service the community that you have. So I don't think I've ever been trying to convince people to care.

But if you're in my community, I am love bombing the shit out if you, you know what I mean, Like, once you're in, Like, I'm not trying to convince you to care. I actually care, Like I care so much about my community, and like I think anyone who's been in my community knows that anyone who has been in my team is like, oh no, Like v absolutely walks the walk, and that's something I'm really proud of. But I think that, yeah, I'm not trying to convince you

to care about my business. I'm actually trying to convince you to care about yourself because I'm wildly passionate about financial literacy and putting you in the best possible position. And just like the way people light up when they have more power, like that gives me so much gratification, Like knowing that beck Is is probably getting a little bit like not emotional but like ego maybe sure, But like the idea that when I'm like sixty, there are going to be women who are also sixty who are

retiring comfortably because they got advice from me. Yes, that's so cool. That's very very cool. That's changing an entire generation. And like, to me, just having an impact is why I do what I do. And like, I'm not here to convince you to care about my business, Like I don't. If you don't like it and it's not for you, move over, because there's somebody else I can be looking after. There's somebody else I can provide immense value too. And

if it's not you, that's cool. Yeah, that's fine, that's fine, that's fine. So how did I convince people to care? I think by caring more about them than about what they thought about me. I think profound. I don't know if it's profound, but yeah, beautiful. I'm trying. I'm not very articulate when you're asking questions about me, am I a bit.

Like that's important because you're not going to have a sustainable brand if you're not caring about any of that, but you're actually really diving deep into the community, what people need, how you can serve them, what that looks like, what real connection in your community looks like. And that's what it takes to build a brand. And like if I say, Heybeck collec list off some brands, more often than not you will list off like oh, added US

and Apple and whatnot. And there's a very clear delineation between a business and a brand when you can tell me what that brand makes you feel, what that brand makes me think, Like what do you think their vibe is?

twenty five. It's not about building a business and being like yep, by service a need full stop like you can do that. You could probably make millions doing that, and that's fine, But if you have a product based business or even a service based business, building a brand is giving your business a personality. It's giving your business a reason people want to connect with your business, not just your product.

I was like, it's just Facebook group, No one's paying to be here, doesn't matter, Like I was just posting rogue stuff, like nothing inappropriate, but just like here's all this stuff I have on super and it's full of like spelling mistakes or like it was like me making a graphic on my Microsoft PowerPoint and then screenshotting and using that as the image to explain to you like it was not perfect, like my first logo I made on Microsoft PowerPoint and screenshot it and uploaded it like

it should be right, mate, Yeah, because I kind of never thought it would be a really serious business. And then when it became serious, I became a perfectionist, and then I got analysis paralysis over like putting out perfect content and making sure that things were really well. And I still struggle with that. It's why I'm not showing up at the moment on TikTok in the way that I want to, because I'm like, well, how do I

create this content that they're asking me for? And my team literally back like you know this, they shake me and I literally like, Victoria, you're already doing it on your Instagram stories. Like but for some reason. I just want to make sure that if the video is going to last longer than twenty four hours, like it's like

perfect or something. Yeah, fair, But you can see it's holding me back, Like you know, I really want to connect with the audience that I have built it and hopefully will build into the future on TikTok, where like I'm just shooting myself in the foot because I just have this expectation of myself now that she's on the money, is a business and does have a following. I just don't want to mess it up. So I didn't do

anything perfectly at the start. I really did a done is better than perfect kind of vibe, and I think that as that started to happen, I started to put more pressure on myself and I wish I could like step back and be a little bit more imperfect. But I think just trial and error and being honest with yourself is the best way to run a business. Test

it doesn't work, don't do it again. So I trying, like I'm all about testing things like oh cool, let's get a free trial of this software, see how it goes. If it doesn't work for me, delete no. Will you know if you don't try exactly totally.

should be doing but probably aren't. Okay, guys, we are back, and I need to know what did She's the Money do differently that helped it grow the way it has, And what's one underrated thing you wish more businesses focused on.

can absorbed when it comes to money, the better. But I think that we were offering a space where people felt like they could have these conversations like it used to be gate kept by the mediocre, middle aged white man who was using an acronym here and there, because it made you feel like you weren't in the loop or in the conversation or didn't understand. And this stuff isn't complicated, like and I say that in the nicest possible way, because if you're finding it complicated, that makes

sense because you've never focused on it before. But once I've taught you, once you have learned, you go, oh, that's easy. V. Like I liken it to being able to ride a bike, Like at the very start, it's hard. You're going to fall off, Like you might graze your knee, you might have a really hard time. It might be really stressful, like you don't want the person teaching you how to ride the bike to let go because you

might fall over, Like it's really scary. But then you know, once you've learned how to ride a bike, you can get on one after ten years and ride it with no issues. And I think that that's what finances, like, like you've never learned, why would you know how to do it? But then all of a sudden, it just becomes inherent and it becomes second nature and it's not hard,

and that's what I mean. It's not complex. And I feel like, for literal years the space has been made up of people who have made a lot of money from taking advantage of your naivity, and I find that gross. And so I think that's why I've worked so hard to have Sheese on the Money and have a space that women feel accepted and can ask the quote silly questions because they've never had someone that they've felt safe

to ask those questions too. It's funny. I did an Instagram Q and a last night beck and someone asked me, like, why are all your team members female? And I was like, how cool is it that I have been able to create a space in a sector that is dominated by men, that is entirely run by women. That's cool, That's cool. Yeah, Like I don't want to change that, Like it's not actually my recruitment strategy, but maybe it should be. But at the end of the day, like we have women

running my mortgage broking business. There's like sixteen of them running a mortgage breaking business, and then there's you know, eight of us in She's on the Money and we're all just women. And we're killing it and I love that, and I think that is yeah, we're just walking the walok So when it comes to you know, she's on the money and what we've done help us grow, I think it's about staying true to our roots, like we are. At the end of the day, she's on the money.

And you know, I have had regrets before and been like, oh, I wish I didn't call it she's on the money because it's not, you know, as inclusive as it could be. But I feel like once people are in our community, they know I don't get who you are. You're a guy, and you resonate with my content, it'slaking come in. I don't care. It's for you as well. If you resonate

with my content, you are welcome. But I would say when it comes to to like an underrated thing that we didn't focus on early enough and that other businesses could focus on, I would say, is like that email marketing side of themes? Yeah, okay, So you know how like you get on social media and you see heaps of followers and you just think that's really impressive. They're not necessarily your customers. They're not necessarily brought into the journey.

They just hit follow and you don't actually own them like Instagram does or Facebook does or TikTok does. And so for me, I think it would be about owning my audience sooner so that if any of those platforms went down, like go, I have your email, don't worry. I can keep you in the loop. I can email you,

I can create a one on one connection. So I think that that's where a lot of companies are not making hey while the sun is shining, like especially if they have like videos going viral and stuff, collect that content like make them your community as opposed to just a community that follow you on social media, which is not yours. Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, that's what I think. Cool.

I was just starting. I want to treat people who join my email list as like the vps, because they've like given you their information to contact them, so like, don't spam them, don't abuse that, but like tell them that they're the vps, like send them a welcome email to be like, hey, you know, it could be you, Like you've got your small business on the side, Beck, and you are very creative, but like you could do an EDM where people sign up and you go, hey,

thanks for signing up. I'm Beck. Here's what to expect from me. Like I'm rogue, I do crufts, I do art, I do all of these things. I'm not going to blow up your inboxing list. It's really important and you're my VIP and you're on this VIP list, so if I do anything cool, you're going to be the first to know about it. Yeah totally, Okay, So like, okay, you set the expectations and then maybe you're just updating them.

So like you don't even have to send out a weekly or even a monthly email, but like you do something call beck you make a new creation, maybe you send out an email because you're excited about it. Your community want to share that excitement with you. Maybe you know, flip it back to Sheese on the Money, Like I'm so grateful that people join. I'm always sending free stuff to them, like free spreadsheets, downloadable like savings trackers. Like if I think of making something gol, I'm so excited

to have a business that I can do this. But like I'm making a savings tracker and then my team are sending it out to you, Like, make it something that they want to be a part of, because then ultimately down the road that can become your sales funnel. Those are people that want what you're giving. So I think it's when it comes to like growing an email list, I would always say give more than you take, Like

give them links to things like Beckett. Doesn't even have to be like stuff, Like you don't have to give them free art, but like if it was your email list, you could give them a list of like your favorite websites that you know have other art on them, or it could be a book list like here's Beck's favorite books. Like as a little hot tip like people are often joining, especially if you're a small business, because of you individually. Give them a little bit of insight, give them a

little bit of juice. They love that. And then when it comes to making sales you've already made friends. Use that VIP structure. Hey, you're my VOP. I've just released this new printer. I've just done this and I'm going to offer it to you first.

But I think it's about having a good idea of what balance looks like to you, Like knowing what your priorities are and what you want to prioritize, because I think that often as a business owner, you assume who you're meant to do a lot of things, Like I used to beck assume that to be the best business owner, I had to be the first one in the office every single morning. I had to go to the gym first. I had to be the first one at my desk. I had to greet you all. I had to be

the one leaving last. Like all of these outdated ideas that that doesn't mean anything. So I think that making sure that you understand what helps you thrive. I think it's so lame when people are like I just do parlattis like great, that works for you, but like doing that doesn't actually make you a better business owner. Understanding that maybe moving your body physically is something that helps you.

For some people, they're like I can't think of anything worse than going to a pilates class after a long day, Like I want to go home and lay on my bed for twenty minutes and mindlessly scroll on TikTok. And that's valid too, So I think for me, my go to like habits and tips are more about just like having a structured calendar, making sure that those times that you want to protect are carved out. Like my team, No, I do not take meetings on Mondays or Fridays. End

of story. You can contact me. You can call me and if I'm available at the time, I'll answer, but like not always, and we have those boundaries in place because I'm with my son, like I want to prioritize that. But I also am aware that I run a business, so I need to make sure that that's still thriving,

because in a way, that's a baby as well. When it comes to mindset shifts, I just I'm one of those hippiedp people that like thrives on gratitude, Like I love gratitude and I feel like it brings so much to my life, Like I'm just so lucky to be able to do what I do. Like, I'm so lucky to have my team. I am so lucky to have

the family that I have. Like, and often if I'm overwhelmed and it's like three am and I'm like up with my baby really late back, which is no fun, I just go, you know what, Like, I'm so lucky. There are so many people that would do what to be in my position right now with a screaming baby. And I also like try to zoom out and be like, oh, this isn't fun. But like I can almost guarantee that if I was eighty, sitting in my rocking chair on the front porch of my house, reflecting on life, I

would give anything for one more day here. Yeah, like how cool, Like think of me at eighty. I would love to go back and podcast for another day. Or I'd love to go back to my team and see what do you know what I mean? Like, I think that when you can shift your mindset and like that's not easy to do, but when you can shift your mindset and make it really resonate with yourself, that's helpful. And that's true. It might not work for you, but

that really works for me. So I think gratitude and being able to go, oh my god, like I'm so lucky. And I have a list in my phone. I have like it's pinned to the top and it's like good things happen to good people, and then I just write down good things that happened to me. It's gorgeous. Lame. No, that's not lame at all. I really like that. Okay, v finally, okay, last one. Oh my goodness.

back and like remember this properly. But I'm pretty sure it was really dependent on your colors too. So if you wanted like the scoobies, I don't know if you remember them, like you would like braid them. And I made bracelets and I made key chains, and people would put the key chains on their pencil cases at school. I think it was color dependent. So if you wanted two colors, it was like, I think, like three dollars, and if you wanted like more colors, it was like

four dollars or something. Oh, that's so cool. I don't know if bracelets or like keychains were more or less. I can't remember. Like I didn't provide the keychain part, just the scooby part and you had to attach it yourself just of course. Yeah, like I'm not an actual business guys.

We're done? No, Honestly, I think time saving hack is just having clear process so like everybody is on the same page about how we do things what we do so whether that is creating the podcast or if that is in my mortgage breaking business, like in my mortgage breaking business, where you have automated so much like emails, like the second you book in with us, you get an automated email that triggers to send to you to go okay, cool, thank you so much for booking their

Here your links here is like a link to our clients center that you need to fill out. And I would say that saves us a lot of time because like you don't have to send that individually out to clients. And on the flip side, like when clients beat a certain trigger point, like they've finished their loan and we've

settled their loan and we're so excited. Like one thing that obviously helps me is like positive reviews, Like we've automated an email to go out to our customer or our client that goes, heybeck, like we would love it if you would leave us a review. And just like stuff like that saves us so much time and it's like one and done, like you just write it the first time, and then we upload it and like tweak it all make sure that it like feels personal. Like

there are things that can be automated. So yeah, maybe email automation is genuinely like such a time saver. The same thing for like onboarding of new clients Fishies on the Money, Right, So, like if you sign up on our website to get a free thing like all of those emails that you get automated with your downloadable, Like I don't have to send it to you because you're like you're dming me being like hey, can I please have that spreadsheet? Like that would be an admin nightmare.

We've automated it. And then also just like automation of experience. Yeah, so like as I said, before, you know, you join the Shee's on the Money mailing list, You're going to get an automated email. I promise. I've put a lot of love into it. But it's going to set the expectations. It's going to outline exactly who we are, what we do, what you can expect from us. And I think that that is something that a lot of businesses don't do because they go i'll do it later, I'll do it later.

But it's so easy and add so much value and ultimately makes us more money. Like, let's be honest, Like, the more engage your community, the more they feel like you are communicating with them, the more sales you are going to get.

series recently, which is new for me. I don't do a lot of video and if you guys don't go and watch it, I won't be doing a lot of video in the future. But I did a YouTube video with a company called Constant Contact, and they have been honestly fantastic to work with. You know, those people that you just like vibe with, yeah, and you connected with and you're like, I like you guys, and their product is elite, so it's so easy not going to lie to work with them. So I'll link that in the

show notes. But that's a lot about like small business, setting up your email system, like how to actually add value to your community, and like it goes back to honestly a lot about brand, you know how we're talking about the difference between a business and a brand before, Like building a brand is really hard and there are lots of things that you need to kind of like make sure you're focusing on. So we've tried to add heaps of value in those videos, So make sure that

they're in the show notes. But we've also got a heap more small business content coming up with them, because yeah, I just feel like I vibe with these guys and they were like, would you do some like small business stuff with us? Absolutely say less, yeah, heck yeah. As you learned from this episode, born to yap about small business haha.