Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud your
the Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow.
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She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money the podcast Millennials who Want Financial Freedom. The stereotypical female schopperholic is everywhere in pop culture, even in twenty twenty two. There's the cult favorite Carrie Bradshaw from Sex in the City, who bought so many pairs of four hundred dollars shoes that she couldn't afford a home deposit and bragg to have purchased a copy of Vogue over dinner. Then there's Rebecca Blimwood, the compulsive buyer turned personal finance guru heroine
of Confessions of a Schoppoholic. Interestingly, this addiction doesn't discriminate by gender, regardless of how many episodes of Sex and the City you've binged. The media turms of blind eyes the issue of male schopperholics even though men are about as likely as women to be compulsive buyers, and by doing so, it downplays the seriousness of the issue, which is exactly what we are going to discuss today. My name is Jessica Ricky, and joining me as always is
Victoria to Vine. This chat has come at a hopeful time, given Christmas is less than three months away.
IOK at you.
You are always so excited when Christmas is involved, but I feel like this is very timely.
I would agree, and Christmas is cited as the hardest period of the year for people struggling with oniomania. The I've just used the definition I hadn't heard of before doing the research for this episode.
And I'm impressed you've got it out.
Clearly, I'm doing the best that I can. Why do you think that this is the case though.
Look, we've all used phrases just like shopoholic or saying things like oh my gosh, I shopped until I dropped. And most of us can admit to an impulse buy or a big spending splurge. But spending addiction is actually very serious. It's very understudied, and that's probably why you've never heard the proper definition for it. And it's also
really underappreciated. At the end of the day, oniomania is a shopping addiction, and it is characterized by an eagerness to purchase unnecessary or quote superfluous things under lack of impulse control. When it comes to shopping. Oniomania, which is compulsive shopping or most commonly referred to as a shopping addiction, is perhaps one of the most socially acceptable addictions, which is why we don't use the real name for it
very often. Jess, think about it. We're surrounded by advertising that tells us that buying makes us happy and it's something we should do on a daily basis.
That's a really good point. Actually, before we get any further into the show, let's add a little content warning, because this is an episode about an addiction, even if it is one that seems maybe frivolous or freely on the surface, and we will be talking about abuse as a cause for this, but we are looking into it
and talking about it to offer support. So if you're not ready to hear this, or if you do need any extra help, check out the resources that we've popped in the show notes, reach out to a professional or a supportive friend, and please look after yourself.
That's right, Jesse. It is also really tricky because of the world that we live in. Like you said before, it has been romanticized for forever. We've got Kerry Bradshaw and Rebecca Bloomfield, all of which a lot of us historically quote cough me, have really looked up to and arguably idolized. Like what young woman doesn't want to live in New York and have the shoe collection that Kerry
Bradshaw does. Like I am, literally Jessica Ricci buying Manolo's to wear at my wedding hat because she had them. If that is not iconic, I don't know what is. Which raises the question of why we've romanticized people in these positions before and not really ever called it out. Jess When was the last time you heard a story about a guy with a shopping addiction? Can't even tell you well, actually, I've got an example. Do you want to hear one? Absolutely a little while ago, and I
saved this probably a couple of years ago. I put it into my email so that one day when we did an episode on shopping addictions, I could bring it up. But it was from an article in GQ, and it was called My Gucci Addiction, if you want to look it up, and it was about a guy who managed to spend six hundred and thirty eight four hundred and twelve dollars and ninety seven cents in three years on designer clothing.
That is insane.
I thought it was insane at the time, but it's really rare to see a prominent example of a male shopoholic, because often when men spend their money, it seemed to be, oh my gosh, he enjoys what he earns and he deserves it, whereas when women do it, it seemed to be frivolous because people don't project the same value onto women's things as they do men's. It was an interesting read,
and you guys can look it up. It was called my Gucci Addiction, and he talked about how he owned this fancy Ostridge leather Gucci jacket from Gucci which was like thirteen thousand dollars or something ridiculous, and how he actually never wore it, and to me it was wild.
But I think it's really important today, Jess, that we really talk about this tricky issue because in the world we live in where shopping is part of life, it's honestly harder to avoid feeding the addiction when every day offers up a new dopamine hit in the form of adding more items to our physical or more relevantly, our digital cut.
Yeah, so it definitely goes beyond, you know, going a little bit overboard splitching and a sale or treating yourself to a few cute, little new things. It looks a little bit different to that. Can you explain it a little bit further?
Look like any other addictional, compulsive behavior. People literally can't stop with this. It is a very common addiction. Again, as we said before, the most commonly accepted addiction, but reported cases of shopping addictions can literally end in suicide. A lot of people have ended up in jail, and there are multiple cases just even in our own community, where it's been the reason for a marriage breakdown.
Is this a new disorder or a new thing or has it just recently been identified.
I don't believe it is new at all, but the phenomenon of excessive or uncontrolled buying or shopping has been described in a clinical setting for more than a century.
So finally, in twenty twenty one, international experts in psychology have built a framework to diagnose compulsive buying shopping disorder, and surprisingly, up until now, there's been no formal accepted diagnosis for the disorder, despite it being highly prevalent, disabling and a growing problem that continues to contribute to over
consumption and massive amounts of debt. The new guidelines, which were published in the Journal of Behavioral Addictions, confirms that excessive buying and shopping can be so serious to constitute a disorder, giving researchers and clinicians new powers to develop
more targeted interventions for this debilitating condition. And an international collaboration which was led by Professor Mike Kurrios from Linda's University and Professor Astrodmula from the Hannover Medical School in Germany, have come up with the evidence based criteria for compulsive buying shopping disorder.
Awesome, So what was the framework that they came up with on how we define spending addiction.
Look, there are lots of different definitions, but their definition includes the following. So the first is preoccupation with shopping, which is basically an irresistible urge to buy a product, reduced control over buying behaviors, so you're spending more time or money shopping than you ever intended, buying products and not using them for the purposes they were intended to serve.
Using shopping to regulate your mood, to experience a high, or to reduce tension, or if you're just bored as a result of compulsive buying, experiencing negative consequences or impairments, so things like guilt or shame, or significant debt or even just debt in general, and relationship problems, negative mood
and cognitive symptoms if you're attempting to stop. So, for example, if you're trying to stop and not go shopping anymore, you end up anxious, You've got agitation, you're angry, you might be worried, or you've got a whole heap of rumination. And the last one was that despite the negative consequences, you continue to engage in dysfunctional shopping behavior. So I feel like all of those, at some point or other I've experienced. But moving on, Jess.
A lot of those sound to me a lot like the signs of like a smoking addiction, because I feel like that's something you see really commonly, and you hear people talking particularly around like the anxiety and agitation, which is really funny.
Because it's an actual addiction, Like you are not wrong at all, And these things would apply to gambling or smoking or drug use. Literally, jes every other type of addiction has these things. And even though you're not going to get quote withdrawal, clearly the negative mood and cognitive symptoms, if you're stopping of anxiety and agitation and anger, those are literal withdrawal symptoms.
Is there anything else that we should know about this particular addiction.
Yep. So in the article, it also said it could be episodic or chronic, so it could happen, you know, infrequently,
or it could be an ongoing issue. Compulsive shopping shares several characteristics with other psychological disorders, unsurprisingly, including anxiety and mood disorders, substance abuse, impulse control disorders, and OCD or obsessive compulsive disorder, and the research suggested that compulsive buying, because of the cravings, the highs, the other similarities in terms of the impulsivity, is very similar to other behavioral addictions,
as you said before, Jess, like gambling, OCD, hoarding, or even drug use.
That's really interesting. How common is this? So?
Professor Kurios, who was part of the team to come up with the framework that we've been discussing, says that compulsive buying impacts around five percent of the population in developed economies, which makes sense. It's not all economies, it's just the developed ones, but that figure is very likely to rise. He also made two really good points that I've written down, Jess, that I think you might find interesting. The first was, in the past, to go shopping, the
shops actually had to be open. Obviously, things are a lot more accessible. And the second was that the Internet allows you to shop online at night when the ability to control your thinking and your decision making might be compromised and a lot of people maybe have had a few drinks.
That's actually really funny because the first thing I think of is, and I mean maybe not everyone's had this experience, but when you're stumbling out of a club at three o'clock in the morning. In Melbourne, there's you know the main strip where everybody goes out. Or if you're going down Chapel and you want to.
Plan on Chapel, is that where we're going?
If kabab, but you're wandering past all of the shops, and I have this really clear recollection of being quite drunk and wandering paste was like nicer boutiques and going I could spend four thousand dollars on a bag.
Which I absolutely couldn't.
But everything closed at three o'clock in the morning, right, so I can't walk in and put my money on the table and say give me that bag that I really want that I absolutely can't afford. But the point that they're making here the fact that online shopping is so accessible. I can plug my credit card details in my credit card details might even be saved in my Internet brows line that is three clicks away, and that bag's on the way to my house.
Just a little while ago, we were on the plane and you let me know that there was actually Wi Fi on the plane, and so I came home from that trip. We went on to Finncon. I've come home to a number of parcels. I'm not mad about them, but I'm also like, Wow, the free alcohol on the plane and that are free Wi Fi really to get me. And that's not to trivialize what's going on. I think it's just to say, look, as much as this can go really far down the line, it's also in a
way a little bit like alcohol. You've got different levels of alcohol abuse, right, Like we've got full blown alcoholism, but then we've also got binge drinking and maybe not being able to regulate ourselves properly when we do drink. And I think it's really important to understand that these things are on a spectrum and not necessarily you have a shopping addiction or you don't. And that's why we're talking about the legitimate frameworks around this, because these are
things that everyday people struggle with. But then there is that small minority of our population, that five percent that really struggle with this. Above and beyond my little shopping spree that I had while we were in flight, Jess, I feel like as.
Well, the really precise cocktail of not having access to stores and the rise of online shopping during the pandemic, alongside the rapidly increasing mental health crisis means that this kind of behavior has probably become a little bit more normalized when it comes to online shopping as well.
Right, I mean going back to it. At the end of the day, shopping has always been normalized. It's kind of a quote funny thing that we see people do. Like it's unacceptable from my perspective because at the end of the day, we shouldn't be normalizing extreme online shopping. However, when your friend puts in a big iconic order like we don't go, oh my gosh, do you want to talk about that? Is there something else going on? You're like, oh, what did you get? Do you know what I mean?
Like if I said to you, oh, Jess, I spent one thousand dollars online today, your first comment, I guarantee won't be like, oh are you okay? It would be like, oh, what did you get? And it's just such a different mentality. But I do think we need to be taking this seriously because just this is stopping our community from buying their first homes or getting out of dead or saving for holidays that they want to go on. Like, this stuff is stopping us achieving our financial goals. And if
anything is stopping us achieving our financial goals. It's important to talk about. Absolutely.
Let's go to a really quick break, and when we come back, I want to talk to you a little bit more about what might predispose us to these shopping addictions. Don't go anywhere. Welcome back everybody today on chees on the money. We are talking about shopping addiction. Can you talk me through what predisposes people to having this particular addiction?
All right, So going back to the research, because I think that's a very good place to start. Researchers have found that one major risk factor for compulsive shopping is
childhood adversity, which I found really surprising. So this includes having a physically abusive or negligent parent, an emotionally neglectful parent who demands the child earns their love through quote good behavior, families that have experienced financial reversals and fixate on lost luxury, which I think was a very interesting one.
And in these difficult family environments, possessions are often used as a means of easing suffering, boosting self esteem, or restoring lost social status, which I think is really interesting and definitely not what I thought i'd find. When we dived into the research.
It makes a lot of sense. Though I've said on the pod before and I don't remember where it was, but I grew up in a single income household, and I remember when I got my first job, I went wild, And I mean I was working two Today's a week while week within the breadth of a two two hundred dollars. Yeah. Literally, like when I say wild, I was spending every penny that I had up to approximately two hundred dollars.
That's what I was. I mean that's a lot.
Yeah, especially at a young age, but I can totally kind of see how people who are going through these kind of adverse experiences want something that they can't have, and then as an adult unlocked in a way, Yeah, you have access to credit products or buy now, pay later products, and it means that you can utilize these platforms to have things that maybe you otherwise wouldn't be able to And I could totally see how that would bear a slippery slope for some people.
Yeah, it's interesting as well. And I mean this is a little bit of a tangent, but when you look into the research behind hoarding, it's really really similar. It's kind of maybe you grew up with a lack of something, and now you just never want to be without, or you feel like these possessions actually hold a lot more
value than they actually do. We might do an entire episode on hoarding, because I find it's so interesting and it is so financially crippling that I don't think a lot of people understand the ramifications of it or how it filters down, but it is really interesting.
Do spending addictions run in a family?
Yeah?
Look, researchers have noted that compared to people who don't have shopping addictions, those that do have them are far more likely to have a parent, a sibling, or a child with the same condition or other mental health issues like an anxiety disorder, mood disord, or substance use disorders.
Well, how about when compulsive spending is a result of another condition or disorder, so maybe a manic episode or something like that.
Yeah, look, that's actually a really important delineation, because what we're talking about today is not things like compulsive buying during a manic episode of bipolar that is driven by euphoria and grandiosity, or with disorders like schizophrenia, where shopping behavior is far more likely to be related to delusional behavior. And we're also not talking about neurodiversity. I've spoken before about impulsivity with things like ADHD and being on the
autism spectrum. We're not talking about any of those things today. We're literally only talking about oniomania, which is literally compulsive shopping on its own, not with another disorder.
Okay, so what are some signs that your shopping or the shopping of somebody around you might be out of control?
All right, Jess, I have unsurprisingly written the list. Are you ready?
So?
Some common behaviors include the following. Hiding purchase or receipts, or hiding your bank account information, downplaying purchases. For example, you might say, Jess, oh, don't worry, it was on sale or no, honey, I've always had this item in my wardrobe. You've seen it before. Preoccupations of thoughts. So if I had this top, I would feel so much better, or so much happier, or so much smarter. Justifying behavior, so, oh my gosh, no, this is a treat. I absolutely
deserve this, replacing one addiction with another. So, for example, people who are abstaining from drinking might actually swap on over to shopping shopping to feel good, keeping up appearances, so the desire to present certain images to others, which we know is not a good thing. Ever, revenge shopping jess is a thing. This is, for example, when you have an argument with your partner and you're like, you
know what I'm going to do. I'm going to go buy a whole new outfit and then shopping to please others. So gift giving to have someone like them. So obviously this is outside of normal experiences. It's not like, oh my gosh, it's July. It's just a birthday, we probably should get a present. It's actually more about purchasing things to have other people like you.
Reading through this list, I can totally see how shopping addictions could go unchecked or undiagnosed for long periods of time because a number of those things I am guilty of doing, and I know.
That's why I'm reading them out. I'm like looking at you, going, this is uncomfortable.
And I know for a fact, like saying that out loud,
I definitely do not suffer from a shopping addiction. I'm fairly regulated with my money, but you know a lot of these things like oh I deserve a little treat so relatable phrases, right, Yeah, absolutely, And so it makes sense that people would maybe have a hard time categorizing their behaviors as detrimental when they are somewhat normalized and things that exist, I suppose on that sliding scale where maybe you're just giving yourself a little treat once in
a while versus giving yourself a little treat every day. And I think that that's a really important delineation as well, because we're not talking about you resonating with one of those things on the list, which Jess you said, yeah, I absolutely do.
It's kind of about the culmination of those things being a consistent in your life. So it's not like, oh my gosh, I do deserve a treat because I've worked really hard. Maybe that is really justified. Maybe it's the consistent justification of behavior like you literally do it every day or you do it every week. And then to add to that, you're also downplaying purchases, and you're also hiding things from your partner or your friends or your family,
and also you go shopping to feel really good. Does that make sense, Like it's the culmination of all of it together, not just one phrase, which I think, as you said before, makes it so much harder to identify, especially in other people, because you go, oh, well, just
just bought that. I don't know her financial circumstance. I don't know if she's abusing her circumstances or just has a really good budget and cash flow system, right, Whereas if you were doing the same thing with alcohol, it would be far more obvious.
Yeah, And I guess it's when all of those little habits or all of those little thoughts start to add up and have a detrimental impact on your life. Also an interesting little I guess sidebar here is that a bit from jess Yeah, A lot of these things on this list are things that advertisers tap into.
At it, you're so right, and they reiterate it to.
Us as consumers as a way to get us to buy, Like you deserve this little treat, or it's on sale by.
Two, or hey, go shopping, it'll make you feel good. You should come down to department store XYZ, or buy this new top. It's in fact, I hate that, Jessica. Why did you bring that up?
Well, it just goes into that, I guess the fact that advertisers are smart and they really play into the psychology of things without any regard for the impact that it might be having on people.
Sneaky sneaky. They know exactly what they're doing, of.
Course, But if someone is suffering from a compulsive shopping addiction, how can it be managed or treated? What can we do about it?
Look, first things first, I think the most important thing you can do is actually see your GP and get a referral to a psychologist or a counselor that specializes in addictive behavior, because at the end of the day, that's exactly what it is. You could also reach out to our friends at the National Helpline because they have, as I've said a billion times, a plethora of gorgeous resources to help you. They have access to free financial counseling, and to me, that's something that maybe we need to
get on top of. Maybe chat to a financial counselor and they'll say, look, here are your issues, here's what's going on. You need to take it a step further and actually go and see another psychologist or another counselor. It's a bit beyond just financial counseling, but I reckon that would be my first step. I also have a few little dot points of some other strategies that could
help control spending, and they include the following. So first things first, I would unsubscribe from any emails that trigger the urge to spend. I know my inbox is absolutely flowing, free flowing, if you will, with marketing emails, especially at the moment. I would remove all your credit card details online cough Jessica, RICKI get rid of that from your computer browser. I would keep a shopping diary, so keep
track of your purchases. Honestly, I don't know if I'm comfortable doing this myself because I'm so good at being like, oh, I need this dress for work, and then the next week going and looking at another dress. It would actually be quite confronting having a list right there of like, hey, Victoria, you spend one hundred dollars on a dress last week, and I'd be like, oh, that was kind of recent. So that could be a really good idea. I would
consider removing devices from the bedroom. I mean, that's a good idea in general, one I'm not ready to do because I do like having a little cheeky TikTok scroll when I said I was going to bed. But if online shopping is happening at night. Maybe that's a really good step to take. I would also Jess avoid going online shopping at night, particularly after having gone out for a few little drinks. I would develop some healthier ways
to handle negative emotions, such as practicing mindfulness exercises. There are so many free apps on this My favorite mindfulness app at the moment is actually a free app called Oak literally free, has really good mindfulness activities, free breathing activities, and good rain sounds. We love sound?
Do you love rain sounds?
And then before going shopping, I would absolutely urge you to make a list before you get there so that we can stick to what we were actually in the shops for.
I feel like as well, even if you don't think you're struggling with an addiction, these are some really good habits that you can implement to raining just your spending for financial reasons, absolutely help with your budget and cash flow. But if this episode has raised any concerns with you, please talk to a healthcare professional. We'll have a whole heap of links in the show notes to Lifeline and Turning Point and a couple of other really helpful resources
as well. And even if you aren't listening to this episode thinking, Wow, I've got a full blown shopping addiction. If you feel like you're a little bit out of control, or if you feel like you're just really prone to using your mind now pay later app a little bit too often, I would really encourage you to talk to someone or make use of these resources, because if you nip it in the bud early, it's a little bit easier to get in front of the boat before things become too detriment.
One hundred percent good episode, jess I Reckon.
I hope everyone enjoyed. It was really interesting to learn about, and I think if we talk about it more hopefully will help to destigmatize it a little bit.
Yeah, and if you take away anything from this episode, I would love to think that we stop using words like shopaholic or phrases like shop till you drop, because they can actually be quite detrimental to normalizing shopping addictions, which, as we've just learned, can actually be really detrimental to your life.
Absolutely, But I think that's about all we've got time for today.
See you on Friday, guys.
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