Just before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and torrest Rate islander peoples. They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing and for caring for the land on which we are able to learn. We pay respects to elders past and present, and we share our friendship and our kindness. She's on
the Money, She's on the Money. Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast for millennials who want financial freedom. Welcome back to another one of our Friday Drinks episodes, arguably our favorite episode of the week, where we get to celebrate the money wins from the She's on the Money community. There are always so many great money wins and confessions that are shared in our Facebook
group each and every single week. And we've told you a million times before, and I'll continue to tell you how much we talk about you in the office when you're not around. So given we do all of that, we only feel it is right to share that information with you and recap the week and have a chat about some finance topics and I cannot wait to get here because this week, Jess, you have some juicy afterpay information, so definitely stick on around for the end of the
episode to get to that. But before we get there, Jesse Gridici Monday Saucy Monday is our money Diary episode. What happened it sure is we chatted to a lovely person who works as a diesel mechanic, which is obviously a super male dominated industry, and she talked us through her experience, like that she makes great money because it's obviously a skilled job, but that does mean that she has to compete with certain other things and that's why
it's so high paid. So with no degree, she went out she got herself this is an incredible job that plays incredibly well and is working towards her financial goals, which is awesome but also really cool to you from someone who does something a little bit different. I felt like she was just so cool and every time we brought up a new question should just be like, yeah, wrapping it, I'm a diesel mechanic, and I'd be like, you're a sick oh, I love you in cred was like,
that's definitely not the right way to cool. So I'm just outing myself as the not cool sibling growing up. Gee King, Hello, you were friends with my very cool sibling growing up. Cool lady, she's much cooler than me. Don't tell yourself. Shot, thank you, thank you. What happened on our Wednesday deep dive there?
So this week on the show, we spoke about budgeting for charity and philanthropy. It's something that comes up in the Facebook group time and time again, and we haven't really touched on it. For some people, I guess it might be perceived as like a bit of a luxury. If you've got a bit of extra cash, you can put it towards something that means a lot to you. And obviously as well, like this year, there's been so much tragedy all around the world.
We've had the floods, we've.
Had everything going on in Ukraine, so it's interesting to hear the ways that we can help and the implications of that from like a tax perspective and so on and so forth. It was a really helpful episode. Oh, I'm glad you liked it.
I felt like it could have been a bit of a dry one, because finance can sometimes be dry. But the big takeaway I felt I wanted everybody to get out of that episode. And if you didn't get it, I'm telling you now is that it is a privilege to be able to, you know, donate to charity and
give money away. And I don't want anyone in a financial position where they're like, oh, I now feel so much pressure to give money away when I don't even have enough to put food on the table, Like, no, you do you You put your own oxygen mask on first, And if you have the ability to help others, you have the ability to help others. But it's not expected
of you at all. And I think that what goes around comes around, and if you're not able to at this point in your life, that is totally okay, and you can do it at another point that might make more sense to you. And I also don't want people to forget that it's not always just financial, Jess. You do a lot of volunteer work where it's not financial.
Like I remember I called you the other day and I was like, I put you up to and you were like, ah, just volunteering on the flood relief collecting items, and I was like, oh, angel, she actually is an angel. Stuff but I was like, how did you even get into that? Like, I didn't know you were going to do that today. You were like, oh, I drove down because I was going to donate something and they needed a hand, so I stuck around. And I just think
that that is really beautiful. One because Jess is a legend, but we already knew that. But Two, it's really not always about money. It can just be about sometimes we need hands on decks, sometimes we need to volunteer, and those opportunities exist, So if you've got time, please try and sort them out, because there are lots of them, especially at the moment.
Donating time is just as good as donating money if you can't donate money. But it's also really interesting to think about the tax implications because I think, like as you guys discussed on the show, like there are certain financial benefits for certain charities or certain donations you know, very.
Specific to what you're doing or whatever.
But I feel like it's very much a rich person thing to be like, I am donating money for this particular like oh yeah, right, Like the everyday person really doesn't know about.
That, no, And it totally doesn't benefit you if you're under one hundred and eighty thousand dollars in earnings, which most of us are, let's be honest, So it's not actually something that is known to us. But I think it's important to know that even if you make a donation of more than two dollars, if you have the re seat, you can claim it on tax exactly. So
that's really nice. And obviously, if you're doing good bookkeeping, you'll be collecting that anyway and making sure that you give that to your accountant tax time, or putting it into your tax return when you do it yourself online. So I think it's important to keep track of it because you can claim it. But yes, we can't all just go make massive donations to museums to write it off on tax. Unfortunately, we'll get there. I'll get there. Ge King wants to buy a yacht, so we're going
to get there, aren't we. Exactly.
Please donate to my charity, Cheeking Yacht Foundation Foundation.
All right, that sounds very a a delv. Let's move on. That's my inspiration. Should we talk about money wins? We absolutely are you putting on the table this week?
Girl is our first one comes from it to Sena. I feel like you guys going to love this, so make sure you're listening. I am looking to Shina. I've been eyeing off a new vacuum cleaner for ages. Decided to buy it. Here's the breakdown. The cost originally was three hundred and ninety nine dollars. I had a code for eBay that took off thirty two dollars, and I cashed in my shop back dollars for an eBay card
that took off three hundred and twenty five dollars. Total spend forty two dollars plus I've now got nine dollars in cash back from buying e Bay cards.
How good.
We met her at the Sydney event and she literally said I love shot back like, I'm such as she's on the money person, Like I listened to everything I do, all of these things, I have these tricks and hacks.
And there you go. She clearly was not lying to She is putting down what she is speaking up. I love her. How good is that? I'm glad you made us listen, as though we never listened to the money with I know, I don't know why.
I said that, all right.
The next one comes from Tyler.
I went to the car wash yesterday, and when I got out to wash my car, the car in front had left ten dollars on the machine or money. We'll have a clean vehicle.
Next wind comes from Rachel. I'm actually laughing because it could have been a like pay forward gone like random back to your guy, and they've left it thinking that you please the next person. Nap'll catch up.
The next wind, guys, comes from Rachel. I finally got COVID and pretty sure it's a money win because I'm saving ten dollars a day on my coffee habit by not being at work. That's way to look at it. Yes, exactly, feeling better soon, exactly right, We've all been there.
I spent so much on cough lollies and cough drops in Panandole. I don't know what if it makes up for it. Did spend a lot on cottee.
The next wind comes from Trista. I flew to Perth and back for Easter for twenty dollars each way due to some cheap flights I nabbed a while ago. She must have got like deep in twenty twenty or something when it was just never.
Like I really should have made use of that pariod more than twenty dollar.
Going.
Truly, I'd be like, put me on a plane, I don't care, send me anyway twenty dollars?
Do you really not care? Oh? Here we go? Where would you send me? I'm not telling I think I just can you imagine putting just on a surprise flight? See you, leater, have fun twenty dollars?
Thanks coming where it would be funny to go?
I don't know, but I can't imagine being able to get someone on a flight without them knowing by virtue where they're going, without making them look like a hostage. Literally, you'd have to like blindfold her and put ear pods or something on her so she couldn't couldn't hear the announcement. Yeah, it looked like I was kidnapping her or trafficking her or something. It would be cost stressful to know from me what's the next money When the.
Next one is a money win slash loss, it comes from Libby. My emergency fund is coming to use as someone hit the back of my car and didn't leave their contact details so I don't have to pay for repairs slash e access to get it fixed. I'm very grateful that I don't have to stress about where the money is going to come from. Little clap of how.
Good is that? It's really good, But also it's a bit of.
A dodgy move from the other driver.
Don't be a dick, because what goes around comes around. I'm going to get that person had bad coma.
The next thing comes from Anna. It was easter long weekend and lots of people were ordering fish on Friday. I do Uber and dow Dash and made six hundred dollars just on Friday alone.
Yes, do fish and chip shop down on the peninsula where I'm from closed all easter. YEH missed opportunity. From my understanding, I'd been super interested to know how much people can make on Uber.
That surprised me.
I didn't know that was a thing. She must have done it per order. Perhaps I don't know how it works either, And that send us a message we want to know more about your pervy financial situation justin know what we need to get. We need to get somebody who's done Uber and get them to do money dough. I reckon that would be that would be pervy, Like I don't just want to know, Oh, how much do
you earn in general, like how much per trip? Like obviously the longer you stay out, the more money you make, but like is it more do you get surges if you do uber eats? I don't know. There's a lot of questions I have that are currently unanswered. We'll find a person.
Let's move on, though, Je it's our final win for the day, guys, it comes from Ram money win.
I've been waiting for my turn to be able to post this. I paid fifty.
Thousand dollars a debt off in fourteen months. Last week we had the bank backflip on our pre approval for our home loan after our offer was accepted, so I had to get a loan on my own and borrow fifty thousand dollars from my parents. It took lots of hard work and sacrifice to be able to pay them back so quickly. Now we are so used to saving that we will have our house paid off in six years.
Wow, Air pic along that she'd been waiting to post it. I was like, oh my god, it's my time to shine. And we get so excited seeing posts like that, so keep them coming. But George, Jess, do you know how much that is per month? This woman was saving thirty five hundred dollars per month to give that fifty grand back.
Losh, imagine the streamers. Congratulations, so excited that.
That is airpit huge.
That's it for the week, ladies.
Well let's go to a quick break, and then when we come back, we are talking once again about after pay.
Oh rady, guys, I have an article for you that I know we're going to have some fun with.
We're talking though, well what are we talking? We're gonna have fun, don't know I anybody else will. I'll have fun. We're talking about after pay. You guys know we're their biggest fans. Oh cough cough.
No, but it's a really interesting article came out last week because they did drop a financial report recently and it said that they have been operating at a massive loss.
I'm just shook that a company that is so in debt is still just like plodding along getting it done, getting more of you in debt. It's wild.
So they reported that in the first half of FYI twenty twenty two, so June to December last year, last year correct, they had one hundred seventy six million dollars of bad debt.
Bad debt, not just debt for like you know, growing the business or whatever. Debt, debt, debt, debt, And that was up the year previous they only had seventy two millions. They were up over one hundred million dollars in bad debt in twelve months, which, oh, easy to do it, that's real easy to Yeah, we've all been in there.
Everyone in the community is like, I'm in debt. You're not in debt that bad.
That makes you. You're not enough to pay any better. It's how much you will cost you after pay a yacht. Surely not, you wouldn't be able to do that. Yeah, So it's.
Pretty crazy when you look at the numbers. Their late fee revenue increased exponentially. Once again, just got me. I was shook for a company that tells us no, no, no, we're not putting people in a worse off position. We're making sure that they're doing the right thing. If we do credit checks, though, that would be compromising their privacy. Don't really want to do that, Jess.
What is it this year?
So this year it was for that same time period seventy eight point five million, which is, if my math is right, over double the year previous which was six point quick math, great.
For me, good work.
Bear so many millions of dollars and again that is just from late fees that they have changed fees.
That's disgusting for a company that ah makes me so angry. Can you imagine how much money that is, like just in a room, and how many people could be out of debt if we had that money.
It just it makes me really annoyed because they're big thing that they push in all of their marketing. They're like, spend, spend, spend, get what you want, worry about paying it off later. And then they try and flip the narrative in their advertising and say, were you for you to help you cash flow yourself, to help you make sure that you
can break things down and keep them manageable. But if you're making back almost eighty million dollars in late fees, I would argue that you're probably not making things manageable for people. In fact, you're doing quite the opposite.
Because you can sign up to after pay and only have the amount of money in your account for the first installment. You don't have to have that full amount because it's not taken out on that day. And even if you did have that full amount in your account on that day, there's nothing to say that you wouldn't go and spend it in another transaction five minutes after signing up to after pay, meaning you can no longer afford it, which is insane.
So there's still no credit checks at all happening.
No, they keep saying things like, oh, maybe in the future will do soft credit checks, which I don't think is enough because for every other credit product in Australia and every other debt product in Australia, you have to
do a credit check. And that credit check. As much as people always like, oh my credit score, you know it's bad or I don't want them impacting my credit score by checking, it's putting you in the best possible position by having it checked, because they might check it and be like, gee, you can't afford it because you just bought a yacht, Like it's not going to work. You don't have the cash flow or the proven record of paying your yacht back, so we aren't going to
give you access to more debt. Or we can see that you already have three or four credit cards. This isn't in your best interest like it is for the greater good that credit checks had done on the flip side of that, though, credit checks are also done to protect the borrower, to protect after pay. If they did that, they'd say, ugh, g has a yacht. Probably shouldn't be
lending to that person. And they look at Jess, who's been saving for a first home very diligently, I might add, and doing you know, everything right, and has really great cash flow, and that would be reflected on her credit report, meaning she's a better contender to lend to. So at the moment, they're just like spraying it out everywhere and
not really minding who goes where or what. And the people like George who have yachts are the ones that are paying late fees because they're not good at managing their money and they're not good at the cash flow side of things. But then this company is, you know, showcasing people like Jess, and they're like, oh my gosh, it's just a tool that she uses to be in charge of her cash. It's like, no, people are turning to this because they can't afford things, not because they
want good cash flow. Because if you want good cash flow, I can give you a system that's like after pay with your own bank account.
In terms of this debt that is making news, it's clearly massive, it's substantial. But who is it substantial for. Is it for the investors who are looking at after pays a good option or is it for after paid.
Users or ken or lost dogs? Okay, talk me through that. Why. So the debt that they carry is obviously their own debt from spending money on growing their company, but also the debt that individuals have with after pay, because at the end of the day, the brunt it stops with them and they're the ones that are in debt technically. So when you use after pay, you're going, all right, well, I'll put this one hundred dollar item on after pay, and that's a debt that you owe to after pay.
So therefore, on the balance sheet of after pay it sits in their liabilities column and it would say Georgia King one hundred dollars. So that's a debt that they haven't recovered yet. And every single user, and Jess, I think you said before there were eleven million of them.
Yeah, it was eleven million in I believe twenty twenty, so okay, so arguably quite a few more ways definitely more than that, But there would be a line item technically for every single person that uses after pay with what they owe, and then if you add all of that up, that would be some of their debt. So I think it's interesting because jess that would be a real big spreadsheet. That would be spreadsheet that would intimidate that. Yeah, they probably don't use spreadsheets anymore.
They've probably got some very fancy back end stuffware. I would imagine. I'm just taking a stab in the dark. I just assume. But if we boil it down, that's how it works. They have this line item that's Georgia King or jessic Ricci, and that's how much you own. It gets added up. So if George Ow's one hundred dollars and Jesso's fifty dollars, their debt collectively that they haven't recovered yet its one hundred and fifty dollars. Does that make sense?
Yeah, I wonder if that's the reason why, So after Pay, if you didn't know if anyone listening at home was purchased by Block, which is like a tech company. There are a number of companies that they own that's all very stock standard. But when they purchased after pay, the projected growth was at seventy percent, So, which.
Is wild, Like, that's a good purchase, right you go, ooh, seventy percent return voyners sounds incredible on paper and would probably have played a very big part in the amount of money the Block chose to spend and all of those kinds of things. However, now with their current financial position, it's actually only running at about twenty five to thirty percent, and that is a massive decrease, especially considering the premium that Block had to pay for after pay, Like they
didn't just pay what after pay was valued at. They paid a massive premium because they're like, you are the biggest buy now, pay later in the world. We want to own you. They already own Zippay. The people who own Block are the people who own Twitter. Like they are big. They're going for collecting data. It was worth it to them, but like, you'd be pretty peeved if you had made such a big investment to then have it, yeah,
not work out the way you wanted it to. Hey, wild When I was looking into some articles on this particular topic, because they have been a whole bunch of
them popping up all across the finance space. Over the past week, I saw a few different outlets reports that there is now concern that because by now pay later platforms and you know after Pay obviously being the leader in that space, are operating at such significant losses, there's concern now that that will actually trigger us some kind of massive financial crisis, which is very but it's very possible. So in two thousand and eight, we saw the start
of the Global Financial Crisis or the GFC. I refer to this a lot in the podcast because it's where a lot of people lost a lot of money because they sold down, right, Yes and no. So firstly, yes, because the emotional investment journey means that when things are crashing, we want to hold everything close, and we go, oh my gosh, my shares are crashing in value, and I want to turn them all into cash so that I can hold them close and not feel that loss anymore,
because I will just crystallize it and it'll stop it. So yes, yes, a lot of people lost a lot of money because it was going down and they just got really anxious and sold out. Understandable. But a lot of people also lost a lot of money because companies were carrying a shitload of really bad debt. And that is what we see again in the buy now, pay later space, like how are they going to pay that back? Think about how much debt they have and how they've
never actually, ever, ever, ever turned a profit. This company has never produced a dividend for any of the investors. Yet when we look at the share market, afterpays pretty glamory, right, it's pretty glitzy. People go, oh, do you buy after pay?
Oh?
Yeah, I bought it when it was XYZ. It's like, as an advisor, I obviously can't be like, oh, buy this or buy that, but we're not really talking about it being a good share or a bad share to purchase. It just confuses me around people's portrayal of what that looks like, because if you look at the financials, you're like, that's cool. That's not good at all. I see the potential. I see the blocks now bought it. But block buying it to me, should have meant that the company would
then be successful. Is it no big picture question?
If they're in these huge amounts of debt that they're like, you're looking at out going, how could you possibly repay that? Is that why they're spending so much money on marketing because they're trying to generate users that they're hoping will pay late fees so that they can then afford to pay off some of their debt. I don't think it's late fees because they are a lending company. At the end of the day, it might not cost you, as the consumer anything, but they are borrowing out money and
making money on that money. So you don't see that, you don't feel that because essentially we're very small fish in the grand scheme of lending out money. But at the end of the day, I also don't think that their late fees are ever going to be enough to pay off their debt. It's just a very big portion of the income they derive. And I just feel like they say one thing and then you know, the numbers are speaking a little bit louder as to what their
true values are. Because if it was so important to them to be putting their consumers in the best possible position, and it was important for them for you not to incur late fees, and oh, they don't care about that income, it's just a part of it. Don't have the late fees, then yeah, exactly, especially coming out of COVID, then why are they there. I completely understand your account being crystallized so you couldn't make any more purchases. I can play
understand it impacting your credit report. I completely understand you being in a position where a debt collector comes and asks for that money back. I'm not saying they should just write off the money because oh, Jeff spent it and shouldn't have a yolo like.
That's not in at all. I'm saying Jeff should pay back her money. But does that mean she has to incur a fee? I mean, credit cards have interest rates, so that makes sense, and they rack up over time. Arguably that's very detrimental as well. But the thing credit cards have that after pay doesn't is the credit check to make sure that you're a responsible person to lend to.
So B If they don't make their money from late fees, despite that being quite a significant sum, how are they making their money now? This is a spicy topic, and my partner Steven shout out to the guy who's never listened to our podcast because it makes him feel awkward. But he works in data science, right, so he's smart guy, smart cookie. This is why we're going to get married to him, guys, So I'm trying to get you guys to buy in as well, so you've got more interest
in my wedding. But on the afterpay website it says that they absolutely would never sell your data, Jess, So that makes you feel pretty good. But they do share it with their commercial partners. How do they get around that because they're a commercial partner and it's for research. Does it say that after pays retailers and commercial partners are independent of after pay and may have privacy policies
that differ from us. But they do share it with third parties who are commercial partners, So that could be retailers or if they're working with a bank at the time, they could share that information because in a way, it's for the greater good of the relationship, and right, it benefits the customer if we're doing all of this research
and it's not selling the data. If this bank is paying us to do this separate research and therefore we're partnering together and they happen to get access to the data, right and a lot a lot a lot of companies do this where they say, oh no, we would never sell your data, and you go Oh that's nice. They don't call it selling data when they're sharing it, right.
So interesting.
So it's like, we're not going to sell it to a shady telecommunity, we never do that, No, but we absolutely might sell it to a big bank who's prepared to pay a lot of money for that.
Yeah, for research carried out. Definitely, not for your data. They would never pay for your data because jess, they don't sell data, remember wow. But they might share it. Yeah, but they might share it along the way, and that's clearly disclosed on their website in a way. But everybody would ever freaking absolutely no. Stop getting so upset about this. They would never share your data with anybody after pay. They do though, they do, though, get us every time.
It piss me off because the lack of transparency is just wild, like it just it's really upsetting. And I'm not saying that after pay the only people to do this, So don't get me confused when I say that after pay doing this, and they're being sneaky, like lots of businesses do this, and they do this because data is king. That is the one thing that makes your business valuable at the end of the day. If you're a Digital twenty twenty two. Company data is the thing that you
should be prioritizing. This is just like a top tip small business advice, but like, that's why you should be prioritizing owning your own data. And that's why if you've ever spoken to a small business owner, like over on the Business Bible podcast, they really prioritize their eedm so their email lists. And the reason they do that is because they actually own those, as opposed to I have
this many followers on Instagram or TikTok or Facebook. As we know, those accounts can disappear whenever, and your business absolutely goes capute. But when you own the data, that's what is the actual value. That's what people are paying for. That's what people see, and that's why they would be prioritizing having that and potentially sharing it, but definitely not selling it.
Definitely not head to our website to sign up for our news go for it.
I wouldn't even know how to sell data. Anybody in for it.
No.
Our privacy policy says we wouldn't sell data, might share it.
No.
I see if I would do that, that would be so contradictory to everything I believe in ladies.
It's been a while, a week in fact, since we've had a listener question. Should we have You don't want to talk about chatter anymore, Let's move on, Okay, no problems, Straight to some data. One of our listeners sent into.
US high Team Shoes on the Money.
I'm a British expat living in Sydney and I'd like to start investing here in Australia as i'd like to stay long term, so just for financial security in the future. However, when I'm looking into all the apps like rays and chair z'se, it says you need to be an Australian resident in order to invest. So I was just wondering if you knew if it's possible for people on temporary work visas to invest in app like these, or what would be the best way to start investing.
Thank you take it away, VDA.
What's the answer to this one?
Why do you always come back to me with the advice you guys are giving. It's almost like you're the expert. This is a hard one because I'm so excited that you want to invest and that you are so on top of it and you're looking into it. But unfortunately, because you are a temporary resident. You can't invest directly in Australia without permission. And when I say without permission, it's not me going yeah, ge King, you can do it.
I'm more mean legally, you need to get permission as a foreign person who is on a temporary residence visa to get actual permission from a place called the Foreign Investment Review Board or the FIRB, known to the locals ERB the FERB, but you need to get permission from them to invest in Australia, whether that is shares or property.
I would also argue that if you're only on a temporary visa, I obviously don't know what your long term intentions are, whether that is to go back to the UK or settle here permanently, and that would change the direction of the conversation because if you're planning on going home in the next couple of years, I would really consider whether investing in Australia is right for you, and if it's something you really want to pursue, I'd be
getting advice on it. So talk to either an accountant that you have or a lawyer that you have that could help you out in that particular circumstance, because it's a really gray area and it completely depends on what your future plans are and what the plans are in the immediate future, and whether it's even worth it for you at this point, because you could be up for some pretty hefty tax implications if you do the wrong thing.
So get advice, I think is the main thing. But really understanding that it is quite limited for people who are on temporary visas, and that sucks, but hopefully we get to keep you and those temporary visas turn into permanent once and then you're allowed to invest in whatever the hell you want in this country. And with that g I think we are actually done with savage d after pay again. We've talked about data again. We've talked about listener questions again. We've never tackled that topic. So
that's new and fresh and bright and bubbly. But you know what is not new, fresh, bright and bubbly our disclaimer, So take it away my life to do it.
The advice shared on she is on the Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. Wow and remember Victoria Divine is an authorized representative of in Focused Securities Australia Propriety Limited a b N four seven zero nine seven seven nine seven zero four nine a fos L two three six five two three.
See you next week, guys, See next week