Apoday production.
We begin today by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the land on which we gather today and pay our respects to their elders past and present. We extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people's here today.
Welcome to the Grow and Glow Podcast. I'm Ashy, I'm Kiara. This is a podcast where we learn, laugh, and level up together. Let's go deep, let the.
Emotions flow, and find the lessons to grow and glow. Nothing is off the table with Grow and Glow and we're here to be your expander. Hello guy, Hello, welcome back to the potty, back to Growing Glow. While since we've done one of these episodes.
We have but we've been asked to give some advice. This is your best advice. We are not professional qualify, but just to have our take on a situation that one of you guys are going through. This lady messaged over in our Facebook fla. So if you guys have any situations you're going through and want us to unpack anything for you or get our advice on anything, head
over and join our Facebook forum. Such a beautiful community of like minded women and yeah, we will just chat in there, and it is really nice, such a beautiful space.
We always want this podcast to feel like two Best is seing on a couch, because that's literally what we are doing right now. Yeah. So yeah, this lady rode in and one of our advice so we're going to read out her story, which we.
Have asked for permission to do.
So yeah, yeah, I let you read it.
That's your old story bag, that's your old story words. I need advice. I have a girlfriend whom I've known since KINDI. She grew up without her mum in the picture or very distant at least, an alcoholic. So my friend who I thought I knew as a person having very strong morals, a person who lives very authentic, vegan pilates yoga, all the bits and pieces. And then I have this guy's friend that she's been dating recently, who I actually saw for a few months in like grade ten,
most genuine, beautiful person. They had been together for ten plus years, lived very separate lives. For the last maybe five years. They were in an open relationship where they could see other people as long as it wasn't anybody local. Last year before they got married, we went out on a girl's night and she was after this guy. He was a local. We didn't think anything of it until later in the evening we found out he has a wife and two children, and his wife was actually altering
her wedding dress. I found them kissing close to closing time and was so shocked. Obviously he's married, so I didn't want anyone to see or make a big deal about it. She stayed at my house. I absolutely had some things to say. The next day she said, I think he did say that they were in an open marriage, and I made it very clear she needed to tell her partner as she was about to get married and
can't go into this marriage with a lie. I'm very black and white with cheating though my dad cheated on my mum, and she you just had no feelings because of that trauma, etc. So I have obviously carried that. Anyways, we move on maybe two to three months later, and two weeks before her wedding, she is telling me she's tapped out, she's not happy, and I said, that's fine, you need to figure that out. I can't do that for you, but when you do, we can go away for a few days and just let that take its
new path and I'll be there. She still went ahead with the marriage, and on their honeymoon fell pregnant. Fast forward another four months and this local guy's wife has found messages on his phone of this affair with my friend for almost two years. So now all of this has come out, and she's had to tell her partner the absolute truth, let us know that obviously they're breaking up, etc. I'm just shook. I'm so mad that she flat out lied to me. Loyalty and honesty are huge for me.
I think I'm done, But she's also just about to have a baby in one of the most vulnerable headspaces ever, and it's all already going to be different to what having a baby into a healthy relationship normally looks like. I can't see past the lies and what's been going on, and I just obviously value our friendship more than she does. I told her almost six weeks ago that I needed space, and she hasn't even tried to get in touch. I get it, I asked for space, but we're meant to
be best friends. Any advice would be amazing, So I think we go through bit by bit. Okay, if we go from the top, unpack it. Let's unpack it. I have a girlfriend who I've known since KINDI. She grew up without her mum in the picture or very distant at least, an alcoholic my friend who I thought I knew as this very strong morals person living an authentic life,
all the bits and bobs, I don't know. I feel like just hearing that, it feels very harsh, like she's judging her friends, saying I thought she had strong morals, yeah, and not saying that anything that her friend has done it is right. But I feel like there's definitely a bit of her own stuff being.
Project expectations of what's right or wrong and regardless of what her friend has done, Like we had this conversation in a previous podcast, like you may not agree with it, and it maybe not what you're doing, but this is like her life and can you love her unconditionally through all of her shit?
And also like people fuck up? Yeah, people aren't perfect. We don't always get everything right all of the time. And just because people make mistakes doesn't mean that that then becomes a whole identity. And you bet her best friend, it shouldn't make you think that now her morals and she's not all those things that she does do on a day to day life. She might have just had a really fuck up of a moment.
She's vegan and she goes to pilates and she has you know, healthy habits, but then does this mistake. And there's also so many layers to this whole situation. Like they were in open relationship, they were happy, but then maybe there were some underlying things that she really wasn't happy, and the open relationship was the last straw to like, we stay together because we love each other and we care about each other. Let's try this because we're obviously
not fulfilling each other's needs or we want to explore. Yeah, that might not be right for you, but that's right for her. And then it went down a different path that she didn't expect. Yeah, we're just going to read the little bits out and then unpack it as we go.
I'm just shook. I'm so mad that she flat out lied to me. Loyalty and honesty are huge for me. I think I'm done. But she's also about to have a baby and in one of the most vulnerable headspaces ever, and it's already going to be different to what having a baby into a healthy relationship normally looks like.
So there's so many layers to this and why she wouldn't have told you. And I can understand why you'd be upset because your quote unquote best friends. You probably tell each other everything. You'd think she would come to
you and like tell you this. But I would assume if you're going through an affair and you're hiding this, you're already beating yourself up, You're already carrying so much shame, you already feel so embarrassed, and by your language here, I do feel like maybe you haven't created the safest place for her. She knows your opinion on the open relationship. She knows your opinion on all of this, and it's valid. I'm not saying your opinion is right or wrong. Everyone's
experiences and opinions are their own. You're allowed to have those. But if she can feel your judgment or you know, you've said down here, I definitely had some things to say. So I'm guessing you've told her how you really feel, she wouldn't have felt safe to come to you and say, Puck, this is what I'm going through, Like I'm in it. I love this man so much, but I also love my husband to be I feel stuck, Like you know what I mean, I'd be so scary for her.
That's exactly what I've thought as well, is you know, you probably might not have intentionally, but also her being your best friend, she would know your trauma, she would know what you've gone through with your parents, she will know that it's a triggering conversation for you, So she probably also is protecting you and maybe protecting herself because yeah, she might not feel safe or might not know how your reaction's going to be, so she might just be going, Okay,
maybe she's not the person. So I know, I've got different friends that I go to for different conversations. Like we said this all the time. We have certain friends could hold space in some areas, other friends have more capacity in other areas. And yeah, I mean maybe right now in this season that you're not the person that she's coming to.
Yeah, if someone's got very strong opinions about cheating and they're they're cheating, they're not going to go.
To you about the cheating issues, like you said, they're already going to feel so shameful.
Yeah, they're going to go to someone that's just like, isn't so black and white about it? I think, and they would just be able to hold that, and then there's a lot to hold. I'm not saying it would be easy, especially with your past trauma.
I really feel for you.
Like I watched my stepdad that we know of three year long affair and it broke my mum. I get it, but it just isn't black and white. Yeah, and I think, Yeah, our work that we've been trying to do is just always come from a place of understanding and regardless of decisions that people make, is just yeah, ask yourself, can you love them unconditionally? Can you hold that space with them? Do you have the capacity for that? And overall it sounds like it's just feeling a lot for you, which
it's really valid. It's not right or wrong, but you've got to honor that for yourself, Yeah, and not make it so much about.
Her, if that makes sense.
If that is about her, but it's also about you because it's bringing up a lot of your unhealed trauma. Yeah, you're hurt.
If I was you as well, I would honestly be trying to space myself from the situation. I think if you're feeling all of these triggers coming up, then maybe you're not the person for her to go to as well, like on her side, but also your side, Like Tay, this time to go internal. I'm like, wow, Like why do I feel like I need to know all the details about this or you know, but.
To the stuff that's coming up for you as well. Yeah, there's so many beautiful invitations and moments like this.
Yeah, I don't to read the next section.
Obviously he's married, so I didn't want anyone to see or make it a big deal. She stayed at my house and I absolutely had some things to say. The next day she said, I think he did say they were in open marriage, and I made it very clear she needs to tell her partner as she's about to get married and can't go into this marriage with a lie.
Yeah, so so I've just written down here you told her flat out that she has to tell her husband, rather than supporting and guiding her along the way. Sometimes when situations have happened in our own life, it almost triggers us to go back reliving that moment and rather than coming from a place of like supporting your friend I think because straightaway, like you have to tell her, it's maybe pushing her away and making her feel really
uncomfortable pressured to talk when she's not ready. She's coming to you like I need to just get this off my chest and then yes, need some time to process and then go to him.
And can you be that safe place to hold that for her? Yeah, I think that's been a huge skill that I definitely learned over the last couple of years. It's like you're not there to fix everyone's problems a lot of the time. Your friends just actually need you to hold space. And the girlfriends I've got around me are now very good at saying, hey, I want your advice, like what would you do, or hey, I'm coming to
you for a rant. I just need to get this off my chest, And that to me is clear communication to what they're needing. Yeah, it felt like in that moment she probably would have needed you to just hold that for her, like far out. Even if I had an opinion, I think I would say, I have no idea what I would do in this situation, but I want you to know I'm here with you right now. What do you need? What do you think is the right thing for you right now to do. Is this
something you want to tell them about? Do you need extra support? Do we need to go away for a couple of days to digest this? Like, what do you want to do right now? And I've got you as a friend.
The last thing I'd be doing is speaking my harshest opinions straight away at the moment, in that moment when they're so vulnerable. Yeah, and I know that that's easier said than done, especially when it's something that's super triggering. So there's no ill feelings, Like, you know, everyone's got to do their own journey and do their own work. But I think if you're wondering why this friend is pulling back, then i'd really have a little look at yourself,
because it always works both ways. There's always none of us are perfect.
And just reflect on the conversations and like there's also things like your body language, your tone, the language that you used, how you said it, what do you say exactly? All of those will stack tor. I think her reason for not coming to you to tell you about the affair later on.
Yeah, and she might be feeling just as much hurt as you are. You know how you're missing her and you're wanting, you know, to reconnect. She could be feeling that too.
She might be scared and so lonely. And also she is so much on her shoulders now, yeah, to have a baby. She's got this husband, she's got the guy she was having an affair with, so many mixed emotions, she's hormonal, so.
Many people involved, by the sounds as well, very messy. Yeah, because now there's a baby involved, there's the husband, and there's the husband she cheated with, and the wife, then the friends that there's so many people involved, and she with children. Yeah, they have two children.
Yeah, so she Yeah, and which I can hear, which is so beautiful. I can hear your saying you think you're done. However, you also know she's in a really vulnerable spot. So shows how much you really do care for her. So like us saying, as we know your heart's there and we know that you're wanting to be there for her. But it is just a cool place to reflect on, like, oh, I can see like I've done it before. I did it the other day with
my girlfriend. I was like, I'm so sorry if I was too honest there, and she came back to me and she was like, never apologizing. I love your bigness and I love your honesty, and I asked you for your opinion. Yeah, if I don't want your opinion, I won't ask I asked you for it. So, yeah, it's very tricky, isn't it. Yeah, so you've said I can't see past the lies and what's been going on, and just obviously value our friendship more than she does. First of all, on that that's an assumption.
You don't know.
That assumption is the opposite of communication. You don't know how she's feeling. You might feel like that and be putting yourself on like a different level to her, but that's not the truth. Yeah, you can't make that your truth because you actually don't.
Know, definitely, And even like I can't see pass the lies and what's been going on, you don't have to. If you actually feel like you hold too much resentment and it just feels so unaligned, then maybe that's the route that you're going to. Yeah, but that's your decision.
Don't blame it on her for her not reaching out. That was the next pit. I told her almost six weeks ago that I need space, and she hasn't even tried to get in touch. I get it. I asked the space, but were meant to be best friends. So we spoke about this in a previous episode, everyone having their own set of rule books, Like your rule book is like, I don't know. It feels kind of like she must reach out to and she must contact you for her to be a good friend, but you've asked
for space. In my head, she's respected that if someone asked me for space.
You would wait for them to reach out with the whole of branch'd be like, I'm ready to talk. I would as well. Yeah.
Yeah, And if you wanted space, but then she reached out, then she'd almost be violating your boundary.
And I've had that happen before and that feels really uncomfortable.
Yeah. Would then you have been like, oh my gosh, I've asked her for space and she's still contacting me.
Yeah. I honestly feel like if you are wanting, because it sounds like you are, I feel like you would not be messaging us if you didn't deep down love this girl so much. We can see that, and it seems like you're not done with the friendship. So what would do you've asked for space? I feel like it's whoever's asked for the space is the first person that would be like, Okay, I've had enough. So then your friend knows, like, okay, how much space does she want?
Does she? She doesn't know if you mean six months or if you mean six weeks, but she's respecting you. And Yeah, like I said before, I've had somebody before I've asked for space and they have not given it to me. It's made me pushed me away so far. Yeah, because oh it was a really suffocating feeling, and because
we need space sometimes to process things. Yeah, I'm sure if she knows you're frustrated and your feelings towards this, she's just trying to be extra cautious with making sure she's not poking you.
Or upsetting you. Yeah, and I also, like I hear that you're not maybe not feeling like a priority. There might be some sisterhood wounds around that. I only say that because I've got sisterhood wounds and I feel you. And it's like if there's abandonment issues or rejection issues, but like if you would have become from a place of understanding, Yes, your friendship's important, but she's also pregnant, she's also just had an affair. She's also just had
to tell her husband. She's also got the other guy. Plus she's probably working and like worry about finances. Like this woman has one hundred tabs open, that she is just probably on the verge of a mental breakdown, I would assume, so, like she might not have the capacity to pour into your friendship right now. Yeah, that's where I would be like, just a little bit more and more understanding.
Yeah, maybe just take a second and really put yourself in her position. YEA, really sit in it picture as well, that she feels like it's the biggest mistake she's ever made in her life.
Yeah, we're not condoning this. We're not saying this is right cheating. I don't agree that whatsoever. I just don't think it's so black and white. I've done a previous episode on it, and I just I don't judge people cheating. I can understand and I can see how it happens. Yeah, how the breakdowns happen, how needs not getting met, where humans were messy. I don't judge it, but I also don't condone it.
But it's also blurry because they are in an open relationship. So I feel like that's why it's a bit blurred and it's a bit different ray it is because they're already in an open relationship.
So yeah, so yeah, put yourself in her shoes. We're not condoning it, and you don't have to agree with it, and you may never ever do something like that, and that's okay, but I would just definitely be trying to be understanding and if I really valued that friendship, even if she did not tell me this, that would be a further conversation I would have later on, and I would let her know and be like, I'm really sad that you didn't feel safe enough to come and tell me.
And I really hope that you can let me know what I can do to make you feel safe for in the future, because I never want you going through this shit alone.
I was going through this.
I fucking hope that I could rock up at your door and you would just open your arms and just hold me while I cry. You know.
Yeah, And even if you would never ever ever do that yourself, doesn't mean you can't accept her for making a mistake. Don mean you can't accept her for doing that. I've got girlfriends now we're like, I'll chat to them and they'll tell me about something they've done in their past, and I'm like, oh my gosh, like that's hechtic. But then I'm like, I love you anyways exactly, and I accept you anyway, and that's part of your stay and I've always loved you, So why would I stop loving
you just because of something you did ten years? Have an option? It's not even an option. So I think remembering that she is fucked up, she has done something that obviously has hurt her a lot and hurt other people, and it's.
Against your rule because to what you think I'd see it.
But you can still accept her anyway. You can still love her.
Be there for her if you value her, and you've set up here that you value the friendship more than her, If you truly value that friendship, you'd be there for her.
It wouldn't be so conditional. Yeah, I think.
So we were a little bit nervous to do this episode because we definitely were like, oh, I feel like we've got a bit of pushback, but we also really admire you for writing in and w a yeah, being brave and wanting our honest opinion because Kiara and I have a very honest friendship. We've also got girlfriends that are very honest and like you encourage.
A girlfriends are pretty dune honest it.
Is, and I'll like sometimes Steve will say like, oh, I'm not sure you should have said it like that, and I'll be like, shit, okay, I'm going to go back and have a conversation, or I don't know. I think honesty is so important, even if it's uncomfortable, like that transparency and just that unconditional love that they're going to love you regardless of what you say or how it came out. You know their heart's in the right place.
And taking accountability. It's not too late to if you listen to this and you're like, oh, I don't really think about it, go to her and say, you know what I've thought about this, I've had in my space. I'm really sorry. I wish I could have held more space for you. I wish I could have been that. I don't agree with what you've done, and I don't agree with everything that's happened, but I wish I could have been a better friend in that.
And like a lot came up for me. This brought up stuff and my parents and because that's fair enoughationship and I just felt like sick about it or whatever, you know, whatever. But regardless all that happened, at the end of the day, I still love you and.
I want to be here for you. Vulnerability and power. It really is like vulnerability and apologizing, holding yourself accountable and be like, oh my god, I probaly shouldn't done that. Probation and said that goes so far, so much connection, It really does. That's what we're all wanting. Your friendship will be like even stronger because of it.
I feel, yeah, yeah, Outif I was to ever go through anything like that, I know I would have my girlfriends there and I'd be really leaning on them.
Hey you would need them, Yeah, yeah, you need their support. So I hope that helps.
If you don't agree with what is said, that's so okay.
This is just our opinion.
And this is also I'm sure there's actually so much more, Like imagine if we got to hear the other side of the girl's story. Absolutely this is on your side. I'm sure there's so many layers and more context that we could have been given. So this is like just yeah, one of us had a friend that came to us, is what we would say and what we talk and how we would handle it.
Yeah, but if it's not for you, it's not for you.
Yeah.
And what we always speak about is two people can experience the exact same situation and have two completely different experiences and opinions, journeys and lessons and perspectives and all
the other bits from that one particular moment. So that's you know, even like the husband or that this like imagine because you're in the open relationship with the husband's like, oh, I don't mind whatever she had one stuff a local guys like you don't know what everyone else's or he could have been absolutely shattered, like you don't, you don't know.
And we've all grown up different backgrounds, different parents, different traumas, different experiences, So like to expect us all to agree and like understand what each other's experience is, it's just such that could be so boring, silly expectation.
Yeah, and life is so different boring as if we all thought the exact same way. Yeah.
Yeah, So we hope this lends. We hope this is just an invitation and even for everyone else listening, like Kiara and I do this all the time. Just always reflect on how we can do things better, how it can show up with more love and compassion, how we can improve the way we communicate communications so powerful. Yeah, like there's always little bits that we can improve on.
So yeah, to reflect on the way that you're showing up and being there for your friends and yourself, holding your boundaries, your standards, what you value, what you don't. Are your friendships aligned anymore? Maybe they're not. That's okay as well, Like so many relays to it, but just take this episode as an invitation to reflect. Yeah, yeah, you hope that helps if anyone else has any questions or situations. We started doing sticky situations when we first.
We did, but it was he's so really repetitive.
Very repetitive. Yeah, but we do like doing them every out again.
Yeah, and when we get one in and we're like, wow, that's really like interesting or yeah, it's fun.
Yeah, we'll see you on Friday for a little bite sized bonus episode.
Bite sized bonus.
Thank you guys,