Apogee Production. Welcome to the She Rises Podcast. I'm Ashy and I'm Tiana. This podcast is about female empowerment.
And encouraging you to be your biggest, boldest, and most authentic version of yourself.
We help you shed the shame, grow to new level. We're gonna laugh, cry, and talk about the topics everyone else is too afraid to talk about.
Get ready for your next level of self.
Hello everybody, Welcome back to She Rises. Welcome back if you're new here. Welcome if you've been here for a while, settling, get comfy. This is an interesting episode, one that Tiana and I have had many conversations about, and it's all about Tiana not wanting.
Kids, one that we actually had on the way up to film this episode today.
We did.
Now.
When I first met Tiana, she was all, I don't want kids, And I was like, what do you mean you don't want kids?
He's like, yeah, right, yeah.
I was just like, no, but just tell me more. I'd love to hear your perspective on why. There was a few different reasons that popped up for you, but like, I just have never been someone that thought I could see myself with kids. But as time's gone on, and you've met someone new and you're I suppose exploring what you want your life to look like, what he's wanting and desiring in life. And I remember you're at my house. Actually is when Tyler opened my bottom draw and pulled
my sex toys out. Do you remember she was like, what is what? And then like runs around with them and she's like when she showed Steve, Yeah, I found But also what was in the bottom of my drawer was my ultrasound photos. And I think it was when you left you were like, that's the first time that I was like, oh, I wonder how that would be to have my own ultrasound photos. Yeah, it was also nice. You were like I love the way you and Steve
are such a team. And I've just never seen this like dynamic of family where you're all just working together and it's so beautiful and you still have freedom and you still travel and you still allow each other to do the things you want to do, and like, I didn't think that was possible, and I think it kind of helped. I mean, I was speaking on behalf of you, but like, what did that bring up for you?
It was really cool, Like it was cool to witness and like what you just said it was I've like I loved the dynamic that you and Steve have and like it's so beautiful to witness you both to move as a team.
And I just love that.
Like you guys like are both helpful with the kids. You've got each other's backs, you make time for each other. You also make time for yourselves as well, Like like a hobby, you literally will be like, yep, I'm tapped out today, He'll take over and vice versa. And I love witnessing you guys in that and like how yourselves you still are, you know.
And I think a huge part for.
Me around not wanting to have kids was a fear of losing myself in motherhood, of being like, well, I've witnessed people lose themselves in motherhood and be like wow, like is that what there is for me?
Looking forward?
Like if I were to have kids, is that all that's going to be for me? Am I just going to be just a mother and not have any other area of my life that's still important to me? And that terrified me because I'm like, am I too selfish to be a mum? Like that's what I would think because I'd be like, like, maybe I don't want to have kids.
Maybe I love my life, maybe I love my freedom. Yeah, And I mean I.
Come from a family of five kids, Like I'm one of five, so I've always been around big families and I love the concept of a big family. But I was like, am I willing to give up my freedom in order to have that? And when I started having the conversation, predominantly when I was with my last partner, I think he allowed me to explore not wanting to have children because his perspective was like ninety percent I don't want kids, and I think that influenced my perception
on wanting to have kids a little bit. So I started having the conversation with my parents like I didn't think I'm gonna have kids, and they were like whoa, wow, whoa, Like slow the brakes, like we don't want you to make any rash decisions, like we don't want you to miss out, and like it's a huge experience in life and all of these beautiful things, you know, but it's just so interesting what you're met with when you choose or that.
You voice you don't want to have kids, and it's understandable the fear of losing yourself because it's a common conversation on social media, and you work with women, so you obviously hear a lot of women that have lost themselves and don't do anything to look after themselves anymore, and the kids come first, and all of that can be true. But I've really loved challenging you on this conversation of like, you get to have it all, yeah, and yes it's harder, Yes there's moments, and yes your
children are a priority of course naturally. However, I kind of wanted to do it a little bit differently to a lot of people. I wanted to still have my career. I wanted to still have fun with my girlfriends. I wanted to still go on date night. I wanted to still travel overseas. I wanted to still be able to have the freedom to go to the gym when I want to go to the gym. I wanted to do all of that whilst I was a mum, and I was like, why can't I do that? I can do that,
And it was something Steve wanted as well. He still wanted to play golf, he still wanted to run his business. He went to Bangkok last week for a massive marketing conference for a week, and I was like, fuck, yeah, go you know, and I've got the kids and we've got each other. Every thing that I've wanted to keep in my life I have. And yes there's been harder moments, and yes there's sacrifices and then you know, these things
you've got to put in place. But I really loved having this conversation with you because I was like, if you don't want to have kids, great, that's so fine. Everyone's different. There's no judgment around that, and good on you. You know, plenty of people don't want to have kids. I can see why. It's a big commitment, and you're responsible for keeping these little humans alive for the rest of your life. Yeah, but it also was like, you
can have children and you can still be Tiana. You can still do your coaching, you can still do the podcast, you can still go on holidays, you can still be fit and healthy, you can still go and like you can still get to do all of it. Yeah, it's been really cool to now see you like maybe actually I would like.
To do that, not yet, but yeah, no, not yet.
It's kind of shifted a BESI and it's funny.
I remember you'd always be like, yeah, I don't think that's true for you.
Pretending I'm being with you, but I definitely not those comments you.
Did you have and you've always been like, of course, like if that's what feels true for you, like only you are gonna know what that feels like. But then also like after a few times I mentioned and you're like, I just don't feel like that's true for you. I'd
feel like you're gonna want that. And it's interesting because it has shifted slightly and now that I'm like seeing someone new and he's just an incredible human, I've just felt so safe with him for so many different reasons, so beautiful, and I've never really had that like oh maybe you know, or like looking for different things of being like oh I could experience that and I would be happy to do that, or like I would feel safe to guys having this conversation with you in the car,
being like if it did go the way that like it might potentially go, like I know that he would have my back in the delivery room.
You know, And I never want to love it.
I just never wanted to be with somebody who was like fearful of those things, or like I don't want to look at that, or like oh that's kind of gross, like that doesn't make a woman feel safe. No, And I realized that I get to have those things and if I do want to experience that, I can and it would get to be beautiful, you know. And you really have challenged me on that of like getting to have it all and not only seeing it for other people but having it for myself.
You know.
Yeah, yeah, just being like it doesn't always have to be evidence of everybody else having it all, but it's like I get to have that too, yeah, Or the question is why don't I get to have it all?
TiO, Yes, that's the question. Isn't it so cool? And it's so exciting? Like, regardless of whatever you choose, it'll be perfect for you. You'll have either direction you take. You'll have a beautiful life. I know. If you don't have kids, you'll have a beautiful relationship and amazing friendships. You've got an incredible family, you're making such a big impact on women's lives. Great, But if you have kids as well, I think all of that will still exist.
Plus you'll have the joy of a little mini human that's half you and half the person you love.
Yeah, it's cool as well, Like I don't get me wrong, Like there's definitely a part of me that's like, oh maybe if I were to just build my career and have like people that I manage and I get to look after and have this nurturing part of me with my clients, I get that like need met right.
And it's like looking from more of like a logical.
Sin, Yeah that makes sense though, being like, well, I have all the people to take care of and nurture and.
It's contribution, right, which is a high value for contribution.
I guess in a way, I was always like, oh maybe I would be fulfilled if I just had that.
You know, maybe you would and maybe I would, or maybe I'll have five oh my gosh. Yeah.
So it's a really interesting conversation and it's just funny for the short period where I was like I'm not having kids and I was like openly having that conversation people like you don't want kids.
Yeah, there is that reaction a lot, which I don't think would feel good for someone that really has decided that I want kids. I think people feel judged for that yeah, and I hope I never came across as judge it because it wasn't. I just no, not at all. I felt a hesitation when you were saying it. Yeah, that's why I pulled you up and been like, I'm not sure if that's one hundred percent tury for you.
Yeah.
I think it was influenced.
I know it comes from a good place you're sharing.
Yeah, and there's probably a bit of fear there, which I totally understand so much fear. I was fearful of having a second, like having my first.
Well, it's oh my god, I could imagine. I could imagine there so many things that change when you get thing changes. Yeah, I don't even really have context and what that looks like.
I can only assume.
No one can say you yeah, they so what I've seen it. You can hear it, but like until you actually go through it, like everything changes. I feel like for my first I've spoken so openly about this before, so anyone that's an OGE listener, you'd know. I really struggled with my first child. And our relationship wasn't that strong. We weren't great at communicating, we were very dysregulated, our careers were on paper so successful financially, everything was going amazing,
but we weren't happy, and we weren't navigating parenthood. Well, I wasn't coping. I was full in survival mode. I probably on reflection, had post center depression, Like I really wasn't coping. But then it was so cool. We had obviously a big age gap, bigger than what we wanted. But it took a long time to conceive for Tala. But like everything's changed this time with Tala, but the better.
She's only enriched our life with more joy, more play, more laughter, more memories, Like everything is better with her. It wasn't that with Taj. I was in a different season, a different place. I've gone to events before where we've had like shame circles. Have you ever done that before, where you're like you hop in a circle and you're at an event with a very safe space, and you share what you're shameful about or what you feel guilt about,
and you kind of burn it away. And something I always carry is I wish Taj got This version of me is a mom that Tarla got because I'm so much more regulated now and I just feel like she gets like a more advanced version. Kids changed everything, but changed it for the better. And I think when people say kids change things, you think for the worst. You lose your sleep, you lose your body, you lose your date nights, you lose your freedom, you lose your finances.
Like everything is hard, and like, yes, sometimes it is, but it's amplified with so much more love and joy and laughter. And it's like your perspective on that. But yeah, I learned so much through the first time I went through it, and I was so determined to do things so differently with her, and we did and it's just
been so beautiful and time has flown by. Like I feel like most nights when we sit on the couch and Tyler's just running around and Tag is playing with her and we're just like sitting as a family, it's just like this overwhelming sense of gratitude for like our family and what these kids have brought to us, and they just like, oh god, it it's so hard to explain, like just so much happiness and so much connection and so much love, and its strengthened Steve and I because
it's forced us to get so much better at our communication, so much better at prioritizing our date nights, so much better at making sure that we're supporting each other in our dreams and our missions and our purposes, and we get to do all of that. We're so much more conscious and aware of all of that, which is because of kids. So I don't think you lose anything from having kids. I think you've got so much more to gain, which.
Is cool perspective to have as well. And also having compassion for you know, the younger version of Ashy who had Taj when you guys were younger and we're figuring out how to be parents for the first time. Like you said, no one can prepare you for what it's like to be a parent, and like compassion that you were figuring it out along the way.
I totally understand that, and I give that advice and I like totally believe it. But it's the one thing that I just really struggle with myself. I just look back and I'm like, if it was just me involved, i'd move through it quick of it. Because it's him involved that I felt like, not that he suffered in any way, And he's the most beautiful kid, Like he's so caring and intelligent and just aware and like he's
turned out amazing. But I just wonder if I was who I was now back then, would that help him in his future? You know, because we do things as humans as parents that are going to impact our kids, especially from year zero to seven. That's where all of their beliefs about the world and their selves. Like it's
those seven years are so important in print stage. And I'm like, where if I fucked him up because I was anxious and stressed and not coping and so disregulated, like as if my little baby didn't feel when mummy was anxious.
Hmm.
You know, I was suicidal at a point. I wouldn't get out of bed for days when I was going through all that online trolling. Like how did the impact him me not being able to show up for him? Yeah, because I was like not even wanting to be there. You know. It's always like there for me. And every time I do an event and there's a shame circle, it's the same thing that comes up when I run the Ultimate Girl's Day Out with Levi and we do a burning ceremony, It's the same thing that comes up
for me. It's like I just want to let go of the guilt and the shame that I felt of like not being the mom I am.
Now, I wonder what it would look like for you if you just didn't have to punish yourself that any if you weren't punishing yourself anymore, how would you show up for Taja?
Now?
I don't know? And then I start to use that language of like, oh, I shouldn't feel guilty because I know better. I know that I was doing the best that I could. You know, I know that younger actually did what she could with the tools that she had. You and I know I was so stretched, and even our business it was so heavily reliant on me back then, like the algorithm and the way things were, like it was so reliant on me showing up online that even when I was like in my deepest, darkest times, like
I still had to get up and sell. I still had to get out and promote and still had to do this and film videos. I remember like two months after giving birth to Taj, we were like ready to bring out an ABS program and I was like still postpartum, like looking pregnant, and I had to do a video selling an APPS program, and I was like, oh my gosh, I just want to like go and rest and be with my baby. You know, it was just a lot. It was a really hard season. But I don't know
how it would show up differently. I need to explore that. I need to mushroom ceremony.
We're on it.
What would our lives look like if we just let go of the story that were holding onto the struggle story?
Well, how is it serving me to hang on to that story? It must be serving me in a way, otherwise I would let it go.
This is a beautiful piece of evidence that healing is not linear. It's not it's like nine years later, you know, like there are layers to it, and like if we can be okay that this is forever work, we will be okay when it comes up every time.
And it's like every time you feel a little bit of it, you heal a little part of your work.
So true, that's just the deeper work here for you is to just like constantly coming back into like forgiving yourself and reminding yourself that you don't need to punish yourself for that.
It's like even mum guilt, Like I feel like I'm very good at managing it. I don't feel it often because I think guilty is when you feel like what you're doing is wrong, yeah, or shameful. And I don't feel that often, Like I don't feel guilty for going date nights, going on holidays, or go to the gym. Like I don't feel guilty for that because it makes me a better mum. Yeah, because a lot of mums really suffer with that. But this is the one thing
that just creeps back up. It's like, I'm still here, Yeah, you could have done better me. Yeah, what are you doing? Yeah, but it's not serving me. So I will report back to you guys and go to talk to Taylor about that, and we'll do a mushroom ceremony and see what comes up. By the way, I haven't done mushrooms yet, but it's something I'm really excited to do. That'd be a cool podcast.
That would be a very cool podcast.
I'm so keen for it.
I'm going to take Ashy through your journey.
Yes, I'm so excited. I've done ayahuasca. You haven't died.
I haven't done.
I actually booked to do Ayahuascar. I did, and then I pulled out because I was just in the trenches.
And everyone pulled out I just didn't go ahead.
Yeah, it just was just wasn't the right night.
It's gotta be the right time.
I feel like it.
If it is meant to happen, it will, yes, and if not, then it just won't help and it won't work out.
But it's on the horizon. We're both like ayahuasca ready and mushroom ready. It's just finding the right time. So I will put back to you guys. But those two years ago, yeah, oh, so back to where you're out with kids, so you're feeling like it's a maybe.
Now I feel definitely more open to me. I feel more open to the idea. My sister's son, Luca, he's so cute. Every time I look at him, I'm just like, you're freaking adorable, like an.
The window this morning, like banging waving by so cute.
And I just I've always with other people's children mostly, I mean like I love them, I adore them, but I'm happy to kind of give you yes.
Whereas with my.
Sister's son, because I've lived with him now, I've created this bond with him that I'm like, I wonder what that would be like for myself, And I've never had that.
Before in my life. It's incredible.
So it's just interesting to see how I shift and change. And also now that I have evidence of like potentially a long term, really beautiful, safe partner who's like your person, very provider, like takes care of me, like yeah, my person like and he's.
Just an incredible man.
And I'm like, Okay, cool.
Now that I have evidence of that, I'm like, now I have somebody that I might want to do that with.
And he shares the same values and he values freedom and travel and date nights and intimacy and all the things that you really value. Like you guys have already had those conversations around like how that would look if you guys went down that path, which is so cool because they're important conversations to have. Some partners are like, no, we would never get a babysitter or nanny. That's your
job as a mom. Yeah, I know a mom that their partner it's more all around their culture, but they don't get help him, like the mom is there to be with the kids until they leave home, you know. So it's important conversations to have on how you would raise children, what feels good for you both.
It's good to know as while being on the same page with those things and having those conversations early to understand the person that it is that you're dating and that you're seeing. And also when I mentioned, like, you know, very provide energy, Like the biggest thing that he provides for me is like emotional safety, Like he has actually said to me before, like, you don't need to be anyone else than who you are, Like I don't want anything else, Like I just want you to know that
you can be all of who you are here. And I actually love that version of you. And it's just so like he sees me in so many different ways that for us both we've had conversations what's the most important thing to a relationship, and we both said safety safety, you know, And I've never actually had like I've had like conscious partners, yes, but he actually is like more emotionally intelligent than I am. It's cool to be led in that instead of leading somebody else, because I've always
done that in my relationships. I've always led my partner in that stuff, whereas I feel like he kind of leads me. And it feels really nice to be in a different dynamic like that with him.
I love that for you, it's really exciting. It's like, on the way up here, we were talking about genders and I was sad to Tiana how I always wanted to be a boy. But I'm just like, really, you do want girl?
I was like, no, I was surprised by that.
Yeah, everyone is really surprised. I think we assume most girls want to have a little girl. And obviously I love my little girl. She is my everything and I'm so grateful and it was meant to be her and I could not imagine anyone else. She is the light of my life. But yeah, growing up, I'd always just been more drawn to little boys, and I always said to my mum, like, I'm going to be a mom of two boys. I heard a footy. My house's be full of with this boy energy, and I'm just so
excited for that. I was shocked she came out a girl and be honest, but I said to you, what gender do you think you would like? And You're like, well, I've never thought about that. I don't know. I was like, wow, it's crazy, you've never I'm guessing you don't have a names list in your phone. I've had many.
Oh yeah, I just thought like there would be times where I'd be like, oh, maybe I want kids, and then I'd look and then i'd have a little list, and then I changed phones and it would get Yeah, you know what I mean, Like I'm not set on anything, and I don't know. I fear having a girl will be really triggering. Obviously it's a beautiful experience, right because
you'd get to learn and grow. But I'm like, imagine being triggered by your daughter all the time because it's obviously she's reflecting things back to you about yourself, Whereas I feel like, I don't know, but I assume with a boy, it's like you're not being triggered because you're not being reflected yourself.
Factor, I don't know much as women, we are more emotional. Yeah, I feel like we've got more layers and we express a lot more. So there's just a lot more. Then I feel like men and boys are just more simple. Yeah, straight to the point it's like it's chill. Yeah. I was scared of that as well, Say when they get to teenage ys, when Taj goes to a party and he's in jeans and a shirt, it's like, oh see
you later, have a good time. You're not really worried about sexual assault or them getting pregnant, or what they're wearing, how much makeup they have on, they're gonna go a You're worried about them getting in a fight, probably or getting too drunk. Maybe with a girl. It's the intrusive thoughts that I already get about my two year old becoming a teenager. It's so scary. Having a girl is really scary.
I just would fear their safety so much, like.
How much do we fear our safety now the time?
Literally, we had this conversation all the time.
We're at the gym the other day and we put a complaint into this guy.
Oh my god, that guy was so bad.
We've seen him multiple times. This is totally going off conversation, but like we were literally doing staff. He'd followed us around the gym, to be honest, like each place we went to for the different machinery. And then we were doing step ups and I was like, we could see in the reflection he was standing behind us, not even training, not doing anything, staring at us. And we could see in the reflection as we're stepping up in like Tiana, he's looking at Oh my god, he's smiling, so put
my weight down. I turned around. I said, can you please stop staring at us? Oh? And he's like, oh yeah, yeah. I was like, stop looking at us, and then he went into whatever he is doing. But it was just like we fear our safety all the time in the car park in the dark, Like I would even take the garbage bin out at night, yeah, like no, it's too dark.
I love walking in, but I don't go terrified. And it's not something that I immediately think like that's something I have freedom to do, because I'm like, well, I have no I come put my headphones in. I can't leave my hair all the way out, like I have to turn even now in the day, I turned around and I look behind me because I'm like always checking.
What about that.
Time we went out for dinner and that kid ran out.
Of the gardens screwing.
We both screamed that was terrifying.
We like both were walking and it was getting dark and we were just having a conversation.
Around suthing like this. We were like.
Something about being scared and being the dark and like something to do with danger right for our safety, and this kid who didn't look like a kid he was taller than both of us, with a bike helmet on and a full black outfit, ran out of the bushes in front of us, us and in front of us like to scare us, and we both like screamed and like just freaked freaked out.
It was terrifying. Yeah. I remember being at out Tony Robbins course and there was like probably five thousand people in the room him and he was talking about this how important safety is for women, and he said, hands up. Women, if you've been scared in the last seven days. Ever put the hands up. Men, put your hand up. If you felt scared in the last year, no one put the hand up. They did not put their hands up. Wow, women fear their safety all the time. And having a
daughter now, I am fucking petrified. And I asked Steve to him, like, when's the last year we got scared. He's like, I can't even tell you. No, I don't get scared. I'm like, god, yeah, And.
Like women's nervous system are like constantly in the final flight because it just like and.
We'll nurture to take care of our young as well, whether that's fur babies or your actual babies. Like if Steve's in the house, someone high alert. I am planning my escape. I'm planning where my kid's going to be hidden in case someone breaks in. Like it's horrible, but have kids, It's great.
Seriously, don't have kids.
I know the prison cons Yeah. Oh, we just thought that'd be a cool conversation talk about because I know there's so many women out there that are on the fence, aren't sure. Yeah, I think that's the big conversation.
Is Like I've been on.
The I don't know train, yeah, and I've been like do I want kids?
Do I not want kids?
And I've been doing that since I was like eighteen, you know, So that's like I've been doing this for like almost a decade now, being like is this something that I'm gonna want for myself or not? And either way so amazing. Yeah, whatever it is that you choose, what I choose, beautiful. Ever it is that feels right for you is perfect for you. But it's just accessing discernment of like whether that decision is coming from you
or it's being influenced by people around you. And also like really sitting with yourself, like have you asked yourself the question and listen to your inner guidance of like, is this something that I might want? Would I regret not having them? Getting clear with yourself yes.
Thanks so much for joining us. If you love this episode, sharing around, don't get to join our Facebook forum. Just search sheep rises on Facebook. Come and extend the conversation chat with like minded women. It's beautiful and we will see you in next episode. Bye bye,