Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Fran Drescher.
Welcome to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk with women who dared to pivot out of one career and into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. Today I'm delighted to share my interview with Fran Dresher, recorded live
at Lincoln Center. Yes, Lincoln Center, Yes, Fran Dresher. I grew up near Lincoln Center on the Upper West Side of New York and always attended the events, but I never dreamed that I would someday be hosting a live podcast recording there. And fun fact, the venue where the live recording was held is where I used to vote.
A very full circle moment. For anyone who doesn't follow us on Instagram or read our newsletter, which, by the way, subscribe to our newsletter, it's amazing and missed me gushing
about Fran, I'll give you a little refresh. Fran was best known for her role as Fran Fine in The Nanny, which she created, produced, and earned multiple Emmy and Golden Globe nominations for After success with the show, Her life took a turn when she was diagnosed with uterine cancer and altered both her trajectory and her perspective on life. She went on to found Cancer Schmancer, turning pain into purpose.
As she famously says, she didn't stop pivoting there. She became the president of the Screen Actors Guild and American Federation of Television and Radio Artists sag AFTRA, which came full circle after her parents instilled in appreciation and passion for unions in her at an early age. Like so many of our guests, her life and experiences built upon each other, bringing her to perhaps one of the most important moments in sag after history, the strike of twenty two.
She led the union in negotiating a historic deal, utilizing every skill and lesson she had learned over the years. So if you're a friend fan, you already know this conversation was an absolute delight. She is unapologetically herself and unequivocally brilliant.
Enjoy good evening, everyone, Good evening, So nice to have you here at the David Rubinstein Atriam. My name is Jordana, I'm the vice president of Programming here and we are so thrilled to have you out for tonight's event.
So we're really.
Excited to be part of this podcast series that we're doing and to have she Pivots here tonight. I'm going to actually introduce us now to our host. Emily Tish Susman, is the woman who created she Pivots, and so I'm very excited to share a little bit about her. She has interviewed and uplifted the stories of so many amazing women, from Vice President Kamala Harris to Misty Copeland to Stacy London.
She Pivots highlights the personal aspects of our pivots, and we are so excited to be part of this furthering important conversations and exciting stories. Please help me welcome Emily Tish Susman to the stage.
Thank you so much for that incredible introduction.
I could not be more excited to be at Lincoln Center. As you guys heard, I'm Emily Tish Susman, the founder, creator, and host of she Pivots, the podcast where we have conversations about how the personal impacts the professional, and it really could not feel more natural, more comfortable, and honestly more flattering to be here at Lincoln Center.
I grew up in this neighborhood. This is where I voted. So I think that basically really rings in full circle. And tonight we have I mean, talk about iconic New York Right tonight we have the most iconic New Yorker we know and love her as Fran Fine, the lead character of The Nanny. Do we also know that she created it? She wrote it. She was nominated for Emmy's for Golden Globes for Best Actress. And she didn't stop there.
She started cancer Schmancer, having an impact on wellness, and in twenty twenty one she became the president of Sagastrodom. It makes me want to cry. Guys, I'm so improved by fran Fine. She negotiated a moment that we all needed hope and we all needed a future for the arts. She was our leader. So I'm so incredibly honored to welcome the real Fran Fine. And maybe she'll even laugh for us. Fran Dresser, she.
Rush to push, so st thank you, thank you, what a warm welcome. Thank you all, thank you.
Okay, this is going to sound like a silly question after that introduction, but this is for the people at home. What is your name and what do you do?
My name is Fran Dresher, And what don't I do? That's the real question.
But I'm best known for the role of the Nanny on television. It's still playing after thirty years and stronger than ever, quite honestly, and currently I'm the president of SEGA, after the largest entertainment union in the world.
Okay, so take us back, young Fran New Yorker, but paint us a little picture, like what was it like? Did you actually grow up in Flush and Queens.
Yes, there's a lot about the show that's based off of my real story, and growing up in Flushing, Queens is accurate. And those characters that we wrote about for friend Fine were based off of all the joyful and colorful characters that I grew up with. And I have to say that it was a wonderful place to come from, and back then it was really a charming, little provincial town. And Simon and Garfunkle grew up in my neighborhood, and that song in My Little Town was based off of where I grew up.
Oh, have you ever gotten to talk to them about it?
No, not about that specifically, but.
Paul Simon's mom was Peter Jacobson, my ex husband's first grade teacher, and then she came to our wedding. So all those years later, and Jerry Steinfeld came from the neighborhood, and we all went to Queen's College and Ray Romano was in my graduating class at Hill Christ Tie.
Oh my god, your high school like dominated pop culture for a period.
Of time, I now, and a lot of people actually came out of Queen Cyndy Lauper.
Well, so you mentioned Peter, Yeah, very night. So you guys were high school sweethearts and married at twenty one, which seems young to me, Like did it feel normal to you guys?
It felt normal at the time, but now it seems way too young and crazy.
Yeah, and I.
Wouldn't rarely recommend it, But you know, back then, and we're going way back, I think that we came from a very traditional kind of background and people did get married when they met their one.
Yeah, and you two moved to Hollywood together to take it on. Did it feel like you kind of were like partners in this joint venture like taken on Entertainment?
Yes, always.
I mean we were written up about in the eighties as the next Lucy and Deisi so, and we really hadn't accomplished anything then. It was just like a quirk of faith that the writer met us and thought we were adorable and sold the idea to New York Magazine. But it was really a decade later that we really did start functioning like Lucy and Deisi did by having our own show and going to the studio and producing it and starring in it.
All of that well, so set the scene for us, like the early Hollywood.
You've moved you.
You're getting situated. I mean, did you work other jobs? Did you start working with an actor?
Yeah?
Did give us.
I didn't work other jobs. I mean I did. I did go to beauty culture school. I put in my thousand hours in case the acting didn't work out, but fortunately it did. But I used to cut my friend's hair for like five bucks or something, and some of them, the struggling actors, I cut for free. And back then it was you know, David Caruso and Dennis Quaid, and I knew where everybody's.
Ball swat was.
But you know, I think that those were really wonderful years. I mean, I think we all felt like we were going to make it. Yeah, and we sort of gravitated towards each other and it was just some I don't know, I think that from my point of view, I.
Always felt like I should get.
The job, and if I don't get it, they made a mistake. I always entered the room with a great deal of com confidence and self assurance. And it was at a time when the popular shows on TV was Welcome Back, Cotterer and Laverne and Shirley and Happy Days. So there were those characters that were like urban, kind of New York, flatbush, fungo type characters, and so I sort of fit right into that sweet spot.
And I started working almost immediately.
I mean I went out there to shoot American Hot Wax, playing opposite Jay Leno, who was then an unknown, young up and coming comic, and that was a big rock and roll movie that we did together.
And that was kind of the beginning.
I went out there to do the movie for ten weeks, but that turned into a permanent residence.
Were there some of those relationships from like the earliest days that ended up becoming really fruitful for you later on?
Well, you know, I worked for CBS quite a bit. I did this pilot that didn't get picked up that pilot this guest role, a short lived series that went nowhere up to four episodes, and you were thinking, oh, those idiots, And I was thinking, you know, I'm done playing the nutty neighbor. I'm done being now like the hooker with the heart of gold. And I really want to get myself on the inside and develop my own brand of comedy and be in a star vehicle for me,
or I was going to get out of the business. Oh, and I gave myself five years to get on the inside in a big way, because you.
Know, struggling is not my gym.
I really had my heart set on success and if I wasn't going to get it here, I would go find it somewhere else.
But once I, you.
Know, manifested that I was going to create my own show and actually become like Lucie Ball in those you know, in that way, you begin to see the opportunities presenting themselves. And I happened to be on a plane going to visit a girlfriend by myself, which was the first trip I'd ever taken to Europe all by myself without Peter, and on the plane was the president of CBS, Jeff Siganski.
So Jeff was somebody that was the president of CBS, and he kept popping in to my radar because I kept doing all these little, you know, like performances, these smaller parts.
It's third bananas, we call them.
And he said to me, you know, I said, Jeff, and he said Fran and I thought, thank you, Lord, and I ran into the bathroom for some makeup on and when I came out, I started talking to him and I, you know, he said, oh this, we're doing a ton of pilots.
Something will come down the pike for you. I'm sure of it.
And I said, you know, you're never going to find anything that fits me hands in glove because I'm too unique. And you should really listen to some of the pitches that Peter and I have for me, because we know my brand of comedy better than anyone. And nine and a half hours later, he said, Okay, when we get back to Los Angeles, call my office and I'll set you up with our head of comedy development. And on that trip, even though we had already been dabbling and developing.
I did is.
It wasn't a nanny, but on the trip I was spending time with Twiggy, the one and only who was in that short lived series with me and Julie Agony, and I was staying with her and her husband and her daughter, Carly, who was like twelve ath time, and Twiggy and her husband Lee were working, so Carly was free and I slept her.
All over London, you know.
All of a sudden, the kids says, oh, friend, my new shoes are hurting me.
And I'm thinking, what the hell is she telling me for?
And then I thought, oh, God, don't tell me she wants to go home, because we.
Just got here.
So I said to Honey, step on the backs of him, and she says, innocently, won't that break them?
And I said break them in?
And I thought to myself, Wow, this is a very funny relationship because I'm not telling that what's good for her. I'm telling that what's good for me. Oh, it's a very unconventional caregiver. And I called Peter in the middle of the night because I couldn't get the idea out of my head. And I said, then, what do you
think about a spin on the sound of music? Only he said at Julian Andres I come to the door and he thought for a brief moment, but he has a very good sense for these things, and he said, that's it. That's the one we'll pitch the CBS. When you come back, we'll develop it a little bit more and we'll go in with it.
And that was the line that we.
Pitched to them, and they basically greenlighted the idea the day we pitched it.
I feel we've given a round of applause, like that's unbelievable.
Yeah, it's just you know, when it's right, it's right when it comes together, but you have to copy dim, you know, right, And that's what's the most important thing in life, is recognizing when opportunity knocks and then pushing yourself into the situation and not getting in your way. You know, that's a big lifeless and I learned very
early in my career, don't get in your way. Just dive in headfirst, give one hundred and fifty percent so you walk away without any regrets, and if you don't get it, you know, it's their loss.
Yeah. I love that. But just for good measure, what were some of the other concepts, just so we know.
Well we were kind of doing.
We came up with an idea about all of these couples based off of.
Our friends and us.
And there was an older couple who was our manager and her husband, and then there were a couple of friends and they were all different and they were all based off of our real life friends. But what we didn't know was that CBS was really searching for an eight o'clock family show, and everybody was trying to get into that nine o'clock nine thirty time slot that Seinfeld had really established and made very c it for writers to want to write in the Window because it was
able to be more adult. But when we pitched the Nanny, they were thinking, oh my god, this is like eight o'clock written all over it. It's got kids in it and you know friend dresser. So it just was meant to be.
But you did get some pushback from the studio. It was meant to be, but you did get some pushback from the studio about having your character be Jewish.
Well, it wasn't really the studio. We actually picked the studio. They didn't sell it. We went straight to Network because I met you know, Jeff on the plane. But Jeff had called and called me and said we have the While we were writing the pilot that we have an opportunity to sell the show outright to Procter and Gamble, which is a great thing because then you know that show's getting picked up because all the airtime is already
brought up by a major sponsor. And they would do that if the character was written Italian and not Jewish.
And we knew that we had to write the character Jewish because it's a very fast medium, and so it was very important that I'm able to place something that's riches specificity, which is my brand of comedy, not try to be something that isn't really fit, you know, like suits me hand in glove that I know without even thinking about it, without even trying to decide how I'm going to do this or how I'm going to say that,
and then writing it too. You know, we can write our mother's voice with our eyes closed in our sleep, but an Italian mom maybe not the same. So even though this was our big opportunity to do it our way, and we knew that otherwise if it failed, we would have that horrible feeling of regret. Why did we listen to them? We should have followed our instincts. So I said that you know, fran Fine has to be Jewish,
and by the grace of God, they said okay. And actually that character was the first openly Jewish lead in prime time played by a Jewish actor in nineteen ninety three, since Molly Goldberg did it in nineteen forty eight. And for all those years, they were feeling like it was gilding the lily and let's write it Italian or let's get you know, a gentile woman or man to play a Jewish character, which he saw a lot of and Valerie Harper, you know, wasn't Jewish, and it just you
saw it over and over again throughout television. But this was definitely the turning point.
Yeah, you and Peter worked together, you were married. Then did it create I mean, what did you do to your personal dynamic? You know, I'm going to keep bringing it back to that. Yeah, what did the success of the show due to your personal dynamic? I mean, you were the star? Was that the relationship you had always had? Did it change your dynamic?
I know because he's you know, was always a producer and the head writer and executive producer, and he he helped make me a star.
He knows what.
My strengths are and he works towards that. Yeah, so I think that it was definitely a combined effort that took too Yeah, and so not to say that we didn't have some marital problems before the show began, and then when the show happened, that kind of went onto a back burner because it was so big and.
Exciting and it was such a shift for us.
But over the years that the show was on the air, the problems began to rear their ugly head, and eventually, by towards the end of the series, we had separated, which made working together very difficult.
But we didn't want to throw.
The baby out with the bath water, and the show was our baby, and so we tried to keep it healthy in spite of ourselves.
Yeah, do you think I mean, it's very clear that so much of your personal life and your family impacted your professional life in creating the show and was reflected in the show. Do you think that it kind of worked in the inverse as well? Like, do you think that your personal life ended up being impacted by the show?
I mean, look, when you have a huge hit and you become so famous so quickly, it's going to impact every part of your life.
But we had a lot of famous friends.
Even dan Ackroight had said to us when the series got picked up, and he said, you know, your lives are going to change, and you're going to put a lot of effort into protecting your privacy and your safety, and just be aware of that and otherwise, you know, it can be a very fun ride, but you just have to be able to find those times when it can be quiet and be private.
The Nanny went on to become one of the most popular sitcoms of all time, but behind it all, Rand dealt with a series of extremely difficult experiences. Before the show even aired. Fran was the victim of a horrible and violent attack in her own home in nineteen eighty five. It was an experience that created emotional ripples throughout her life, and when we come back, Fran talks through how that experience and others shaped her perspective on life and ultimately
led her to pivot. Now back to the show.
You know, I was a victim of violent crime in my own home by a man who is on parole, and my girlfriend was there at the time, and Peter was there at the time, and there was a horrible situation that really left us emotionally traumatized for a long time.
But that happened before The Nanny.
It was during the Nanny that somehow that story was exploited on some of those magazine shows on television, and at that point people were watching it thinking that it just happened instead of like ten years earlier.
And so I had a.
Very visceral response to that, and almost I think I had a bit of a nervous breakdown because I think there was a lot about that experience I hadn't really fully dealt with.
And so.
It was around that time that I had started therapy because the marriage was beginning to fail, and then I was fortunately already in therapy where I could really discuss what went down and try and identify how it's impacted.
My life now. And even years after that.
I realized that I don't do a lot of things by myself, and I never had connected it to that, but once I did, I started making modifications. I have a big service animal, and you know, I just I want to live my life. And you know, once you wake up and smell the coffee, it's hard to go back to sleep. So I am living my life as fully as I can, and no one.
Leaves this planet unscathed.
It's what we do with it, how we grow through it, and what becomes of us as a result, that makes all the difference. And for me, turning pain into purpose is extremely healing.
So you were diagnosed with cancer, you had a hysterectomy, and then you launched your organization Cancer Schmanzer, right, So what pushed you not just to launch it, but also to focus it the way that you do well?
You know?
I always said, even through this strike, I'm a systems analyst's daughter. So even though we started, the cornerstone of the organization was.
Early detection because I was very lucky.
Even after two years and eight doctors of misdiagnosis, I was still in stage one catching on arrival in ninety
five percent survival. So I wanted to empower patients to become medical consumers, to learn what the early warning whispers are of cancers and what tests are available so you can become better partners with your doctor, because all too often doctors are very busy people their bludgeoned by big business health insurance to go to the least expensive route of diagnostic testing and many of them seem to subscribe to this philosophy. If you hear who's galloping, don't look
for zebra. It's probably a horse. But I was a zebra because I was really too young and too thin to have uterine cancer. Although one out of four women, or twenty five percent, are young in thin, so to me, that seemed like I should have been tested for that. But doctor number one said I was too young, and I'm like an idiot. I didn't ask her, well, what would it prove a disproof taking an endometrio biopsy?
I just was glad to be too young for anything.
But in reality, if I were a medical consumer, which I was starting to train other people to be, motivate activate educate patients into medical consumers, I would have known to ask that question. I wouldn't have been so easily flattered, and I would have said, no, let's do it, even if I have to pay for it myself. And I tell people you use your Christmas Club account for tests your insurance won't pay for, because the best gift you can give your friends and family is a long and
healthy life. But that was only the beginning for kancer schmanca, because as time went on and I did get a bill passed by unanimous consent in Washington, which means all one hundred senators said yes.
Fran and.
That was written up twice in the Congressional record. And from there I was appointed a Public Diplomacy Envoy for the US State Department, which is a vetted position to speak to our allied nations on taking control of your
body and becoming a medical consumer. And I also spoke to our military basis around the world well, and so you know, this is really turning my pain into purpose and helping people to realize that education and knowledge is power, and it's really important that we take control of our bodies, that we are the ones in charge. Because you know, when the doctor calls and tells you have cancer, at the end of the day, he goes home and eats dinner with his family. You go home and eat your
heart out with yours. So it's your life to charge. And just when you feel like I'm too scared and you become infantile, that's exactly when you have to pull yourself up by your bootsteps and really pay attention to what's going on. So that was the beginning of it, But then I started asking why are we getting cancer in the first place?
What's this about?
I mean, rather than be symptomatic and reductionist in how we treat the end stage, which is cancer or a long history of inflammation, why don't we catch it at the inflammation stage and understand what's causing the inflammation.
Let's not get cancer in the first place. How's that for a cure?
Right, So, Cancer Schmancer pivoted and became very focused on causation, and nobody really in the health space was doing that, and they're still not doing it. Quite frankly, I'm not asking people for money to find a cure. We've been looking for a cue since Nixon waged the war in cancer.
Where's the cure? Well, you can't put out a fire.
By throwing water on it from one side. If you continue to throw kerosene on it from the other side, you have to stop throwing the kerosene on it. And we live in extremely toxic times. So at Cancer Schmancer we developed a very progressive program called Detox Your Home because the home is the most toxic place we spend the most time and ironically have the most control over.
And what we do now.
Is take mindless consumerism and convert it into mindful consumerism. So you use your hard earned dollars to support companies that are not going to make you sick because you know better because you follow the cancers man supplan. So these are Once you learn these systems in your body, you're not going to just stay with THEE and symptom. It's silly to do that. You got to track that train. You got to get to the beginning. You got to see what you may be doing that's hurting you and
pay attention because your body is screaming at you. And instead of muzzling it with a symptom suppressor, which is very common in today's Western medicine and very profitable, by the way, and filled with side effects, start looking at what the causation is.
Track the train, get to.
The root of the problem, and cut it out of your life. I don't drink alcohol anymore. It causes too much inflammation in me. It's not that I had a drinking problem. It's not that I didn't enjoy an expensive glass of wine now and then, but I don't like the way I feel the next day. I have to listen to my body. You know, when something if I get the inflammation. I could take an anti inflammatory, but then I'm just muzzling the symptom and I'm not really
helping my body heal. The body is trying to heal itself. The inflammation, as annoying as it may be, is actually going to the source that has a problem. So we have to start working with our body instead of working against it. And I find all too often, thanks to the twentieth century, we tend to work against nature, and
we have to stop doing that. We have to work with nature and embrace it and listen to it and not make what you think the most important deciding factor, because the brain is the worst roommate in the body, and everything else, you know, like takes a back seat, but it shouldn't. You got to listen very closely and be ingratitude to every part of your body and honor it.
Honor your body.
But you almost had a totally different pivot. There were conversations for you to run for senate here in New York, which I think right now we're all in favor of ha ha. Yeah.
I have to tell you, you know, even when I became president of sag Aftra, I knew I would be good at it. My whole life led up to having the qualifications to lead in that way, and I am good at it. But it's not a joyful experience. It's empowering, it's a lot of stress. It's you know, exactly as Lincoln said, you can play some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
And you know, it just.
Depends on how much aggravation and stress you can really take. And I feel like I'm at a stage in my life where I would like to have it easier and more joyful. I wasn't even planning on running a second time.
And everybody knew it.
But when this negotiation started and it looked like we were probably going to end up striking, there was no way that another president could step in, you know, right in the middle of this major event in our nation's history, and I was leading it.
I was the one that, you know.
Really decided this was going to be a seminal negotiation. I was the one that decided we needed to get our hooks into a new stream of revenue because it was such a new business model. Again, being the daughter of a systems analyst. I saw the system and where it was weak and where it was broken, and I had to convince my own you know, members and negotiating staff to really push themselves. I was not going to accept incremental changes, not this time, and so I had
to remain president. And for the first time in the Union's history, you know, they didn't run anybody against me from the opposition party. That both parties came together and started a unity ticket just to keep me in office. And so I just slid back in without you know, much that I would have to do, like campaign or debate or anything, and need to do that.
Well, you had a quote much like you just said that sag after a leading sag after was a defining moment and the amalgam of my life experience, everything good, bad, the worst of it, the best of it, my ego as a star, all of it. Everything went into this one moment of truth and thank god it paid.
Off, otherwise woe is me.
But could you be a little specific, like what were those experiences that you felt like prepared you for this moment?
Well, you know, I've been a boss for decades.
You know, when you're an executive producer, you run things, and I liked to do that, so I know how to lead. I started my own organization. You know, people get cancer, they don't turn it into a cottage industry, but I did that. I wanted to exemplify what survival could look like, and I wanted to help people to look at their health and their body through a different lens. So I organized. And what are we at a union but an organization of members who come together to make
a difference. And I'm a best selling author, I have to do a lot of writing. And you know, they at the union were always writing things for me, and I said, no, no, I write my own speeches, I write my own articles. I'm a one man band and I'm a public speaker, so that comes in very handy. I'm a household name and I'm highly recognizable around the world. So that elevated the union exponentially because suddenly we were getting invited to things that the union was never invited to.
And that was because of my celebrity. But then after the strike and the historic billion dollar deal, now I get invited because I'm the president of a labor union and I led a strike that awakened labor around the world, and my strike speech got over twelve billion impressions. So it started what became the hot labor Summer. There were
strikes everywhere around the world. That strike speech woke everybody up like the emper new clothes, and they went from feeling oppressed and living a quiet desperation to becoming empowered and feeling like we could do this too. And that was a strategy that I chose to take when we went on strike, that it wasn't just us. We were in the forefront of a labor battle that with millions of people.
Behind us and all around the world.
Because you know, we have to be very careful that corporations and Wall Street never dismiss workers, never disrespect workers, and never feel like they are replaceable by machines, rendering them, you know, out of business, out of work. So that's the things that we were fighting for, and it with a lot of different people.
Yeah, you said right before this, when we were backstage, you said this was the right hill to die on. Yes, yeah, Can you tell us more about that and how you took the weight of the industry in your head and behind you at those negotiating conversations.
Well, it was in.
Nineteen sixty, when Ronald Reagan was president of SEG that they went to the map to get actors for the first time in history. Pension, health coverage over time, you know, and residuals. None of that existed before nineteen sixty and between nineteen sixty and twenty twenty three, that was the contract that we were using. Jess always trying to incrementally
improve it. But something different happened along the way, and that was AI and streaming, and the introduction of those two elements changed the conversation so significantly that there was no way that I was going to go into this negotiation talking about a contract that was forged in nineteen sixty.
That world has changed so much, Entertainment has changed so much, communication has changed so much, and it demanded a new contract, and I commanded it of our opposition, and you know, at first they were aggressive in their resistance, but at some point they realized that either they were going to lean in or they were going to lose very big because they knew that I wasn't kidding around.
Yeah, I believe that I was on the right side of history, and they understood that the jig was up for them.
Fran rallied actors around the world, negotiating a historic deal for sag Astra, valued at more than one billion dollars over three years. When we come back, Fran talks about how different the public pressure was compared to when The Nanny was airing. We're back with Fran talking about her experience dealing with the public pressure of the sag after negotiations, she felt the gravity of her role. After a video of her speech went viral.
This amplified it onto another level because when you say a speech that gets twelve billion impressions, now suddenly people aren't just stopping me and saying, oh, I love you on the Nanny or even how are you feeling these days, but thanking me, whether it be a nurse or a trucker, a hospitality worker.
Everywhere I go people saw.
That and said thank you, thank you for sticking up for labor, for sticking up for workers. So that's like a whole new thing. It's even bigger than the Nanny. I never thought I could really tap the Nanny, but somehow this really has because it just you know, put it in a whole new stratosphere. Yeah, and I'm very proud of that. Because I'm always defending the underdog. I'm always going to the match for those that are marginalized. So that was another thing that kind of supported me
doing this is what I do. And even in The Nanny, you know, it kept coming up some of the episodes that we did us that friend wouldn't cross a picket line and you know, things like that, because we always In The Beautician and the Beast, you know, she like couldn't believe that this country that she was working as a teacher didn't have unions and people didn't get over time.
And so I think that this character that I've become known for has always been infused with something that my father instilled in me, which is being sensitive to people's needs and not being impressed by people who have money, but by people who have character.
Thank you for reminding me about The Beaudition and The Beast. I really loved that movie. You talk a lot about your purpose through this piece. How did your purpose change? We understand where there's where it was the same, like you've always been yourself, And it turns out it's very convenient when you're true to your own values. People can pull up those episodes and it's not only not embarrassing,
it feels great. But how has your north star, like your purpose changed as you've gone through these different phases of your life.
Well, I think that you know, when you go through troubled waters, you become more empathic to other people's pain. And I'm very much an EmPATH now in a way that I'm not sure I was. I was a fighter on the side of good, but now I really feel the pay other people's pain and that it's hard to be an EmPATH. It's not something I chose to be, but I morphed into that through my own life experience, and so my ability to shape whatever I'm doing is
sifted through that lens of other people's pain. So it's interesting and I think that it deepens you as a human being.
Yeah, you know, a.
Core part of the conversations that we have in this show is that how everything builds upon itself, Like we're not just sort of born these successes, but that we have to have gone through these different phases to then be the piece that everybody sees this success. Do you think you could walk us through some of those steps for you to be the success that you are today.
Well, I think it would have to begin with my parents, because they were very nurturing, loving people. I got to witness a beautiful marriage in them. My bedroom wall was shared with their bedroom wall, and I remember a lot of laughing and giggling on the other side of that wall, And it makes a kid feel warm and fuzzy inside when that's the music that you hear as you're drifting off to sleep. And my mom was the one that said to me, you don't need to take typing because
you're going to have a secretary. And I still can't type because I never did take it, and I do
have a secretary. So you know, that kind of belief in a child is as I get older and I get to know my friend's personal stories, it's very rare and I can really appreciate how blessed I was to have that foundation and to have people that really hung on every word and really thought that I could do anything and did not dissuade me from wanting to become an actress, but truly believe that I had star quality and if anybody could make it, friend could.
So you know, it's an interesting.
Beginning. And I've heard other people say once in a while that the parents would always say, you're such a genius, is such a genius, and they said, I felt like I had to be I didn't want to disappoint them.
I had to be a success.
I had to be a genius because they believed in me so so believing in your kid and making them feel like everything that they do has value and nurture what their you know, what their's things are is really important.
And that really was the beginning.
But then once I got older and I moved to California, I met a fantastic woman that I was very blessed to meet, Elaine Rich, who became my manager. And she wouldn't have been as good a parent as my parents were, but she was an excellent manager and dear friend once I was already formed, and I bless her. And she's since passed away and I miss her. But she always said to me, even when I couldn't afford a headshot, she said, I'll pay for your pictures and I said, no,
I don't want you to do that. And she said, honey, you're like a blue chip stock. I ain't going to lose on my investment with you. And you know she was right.
I mean, we.
Made her a lot of money, and she believed in me when I wasn't making a lot of money. So you know, people like that along the way do make a difference for you, and the more people that believe in you, they become like your She always described yourself as my prime minister. And then you know, the agents were kind of the generals the army, and you need.
It really does take a.
Village, and so I have to say that I was lucky that and continue to be so that there are people that believe in me and believe in what I have to say and allow me to be me and not try and put me into a box because I don't fit in a box and I don't want to be in a box. I just want to be me. And even with the strike, I realized that I had a bigger responsibility, which was to show women and girls
what female leadership could look like. And that became very important to me because I wanted to be me and not emulate masculine energy, be vulnerable.
I would quote Buddhist wisdom.
I had a little heart shaped plushy toy that a little girl who loves me gave me for support, and I always sat it down in front of me at the negotiating table. And there was a point when the opposition had hired a big DCPR firm who does crisis management for bad guys with a lot of money, and right away they went for the lowest hanging fruit. Let's discredit the female, the woman leader, and you know, and they tried to I was too domineering or obstinate because
I stood my ground. I was too frivolous because I quoted Buddhist wisdom. I was unprofessional because I had a little plushy toy in the room with me. And my advisors at the union said let's just say no comment, and I said no to that. I'm going to meet this head one armed only with my authenticity and my unabashed honesty. And I did a self taped video of me putting my makeup on, as so many women do before while getting ready for work, and I said, you know,
I don't have to emulate mail energy to lead. I can lead with intellect and wisdom and empathy. I can lead and still rock a red lip. I can lead and be me and still have a little heart shape plushy toy on my negotiating table. And that went viral and stop the opposition's tactics dead in their tracks because it rendered it ineffective.
Okay, So I asked this question of all of my guests, what is one thing that at the time you really felt like was a negative? Like you're like, I'm not sure how many get out of this, And now, in hindsight, you see it as having maybe launched you, or at least set you up for the success that you are now.
Well.
I think that there was a passage in my career early on when I was getting convinced that I would work more if I can fit into more of an assortment of parts, and I would have to, you know, not sound like this. And I actually tried to learn.
How to speak and what my dialect.
Coach called low slow flow. And I went on an audition for back Then The Winds of War, And when my manager called to see how I did, they said, you know, she sounded okay, but she talked very slow, and it's only an eighteen hour miniseries a Lane, So of course I didn't get the part. I was so focused on something that wasn't natural or organic to me
that I lost my whole personality. And then I realized, you know, I'm going to figure out how to monetize this because it's unique and it's my own and I don't care if every character I play comes from New York. As long as I can explore different emotions and different life experiences and challenges, I'm.
Good with that.
I don't have to be Meryl Streep, though, God bless her, it would be nice, but that's not my jam. You know, I'm not Meryl Streep. I'm Frien.
Yeah. Yes, we're so glad you are.
But you know, honestly, I needed to wear a lot of different hats anyway. I wouldn't be happy only being an actor. It's not enough. I need to do other things. I want to write, I want to produce, I want to direct, you know. I like to wear a lot of different hats. I like to try new things. I like to fly.
Without a net.
But I don't need to stay in it forever. I want to master it. I want to succeed in it, and then bye bye. I don't need to make it my life's mission. And so you know, I find life a lot of fun in that way if I can do a lot of different things. And I think that's why I went into show business in the first place, because the idea for me of doing like a nine to five job going to the same place, I don't think I couldn't do it.
Yeah, a perfect segue into our final question. Oh, I know, I've had so much fun. Do you think you'll piv again?
Undoubtedly I will, you know.
I mean, that's what the joy of my life is is to fly through new windows and learn new things. I love learning things and I like challenging myself or I start to get bored. So I definitely definitely will. And what it will be, I'm not sure, but I know I'm going to start putting pen to paper and writing another book. And there's a big story to share subsequent to the last book, which was Cancer Schmancer, and it's time that I shared it.
Thank you so much, thank you, thank you for inviting me. Thank you Live she Pivots and Lincoln Center. Thank you so much.
Friend appreciated, thank you.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of She Pivots. Fran continues to serve as the president of sag Aftra and is heavily involved in her nonprofit, Cancer Schmancer, and she somehow still has time to write a book on the side. Be sure to follow Frin on Instagram at official fran Dresser and visit our website to donate to Cancer Schmancer and learn all about the good work they're doing. Thanks for listening to this episode of She Pivots. If you made it this far, you're a true pivoter,
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