Erin Lichy: The New “Straightforward” RHONY Star

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Welcome to She Pivots. I'm your host to Emilie Tish Sussman.

One of my goals in starting this podcast is to highlight voices and stories of women who went through something deeply personal, only to come out of it on the other side better than they could have imagined. After launching she Pivots last year, it's clear it's not a small This applies to most women, whether it's a big pivot or even just a tiny pivot. What's clear is there's

Let's jump right in.

Okay, welcome back to she Pivots with a super special episode with a super special guest, Aaron Leechy New Real Housewives of New York. Welcome eron. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

You are at the beginning of like a press whirlwind here, I sure am how much press and you're done previous to Real Housewives of New York planning and launching.

I always, you mean, in relation to the show or just generally.

Just like in your life, like all of a sudden you're like, oh, here's my ninth president of the day.

I now, I mean, I always kind of was in that world, between the business I had years and years ago, and then you know, my entior design business and in the real estate world working with Frederick Eckland. So like, I've always had a lot of press opportunities and been involved, but not.

To this level and not this personal. Maybe and not this personal.

I mean, I'm realizing that I just filmed a show in which I have no filter and say anything at any time, and I don't quite remember everything I said.

So it's like, how do you you know? Like how could anyone remember everything?

But well, I was actually just thinking that, like how could you possibly remember, especially cause I imagine a lot of the press is getting the first couple of episodes before the.

Interview, I think, And that's like, how long ago did you film? Like a year? Not a year?

We started in like I think end of October, okay, and one of our first actually one of our first episodes, and I think the second and third episode we're out here in the Hampton's at my house Okay.

I was going to ask about that because I was in town when you guys were walking through and all the production was around.

I had just taken my son it was about to but we hadn't met yet. Did you see production? Yeah?

I talked to them, stop, Yeah, I asked. I was like, hey, what are you guys doing? They all went over to Sagtown Coffee for coffees. I told them to you just went in.

Oh yeah, we were there. We went to launch a page.

Oh is that where my son had karate at the Kites, Like right behind the Kite store. So we were sitting having our weekly monkey milkshake Kites of the Harbor, my son's favorite store. Yes, the best, and we go to karate afterwards, and we're like, wow, this is a big happening for the middle of October in like a kind of sleepy town in the off season.

It was like, did you guys have fun when you were out here? We had so much fun. We really really did. We had a great, great time. There were a lot but it was great. Yeah. We also it was one of the first episodes.

Was that weird having people that you only kind of knew in your house, like it's your actual house.

Well I knew all of them, but yeah, I mean it's not like a rented house. It's my home. So like to get all this judgment and opinions and needs a lot of needs. It was a lot.

But I'm used to hosting. I'm always I always have people over always, and then always pains there's always one pain, I'd say, you know, there's always someone who needs a little bit more, someone who doesn't help out, like with the cleaning.

But it's fine. I'm used to it and I don't mind. I really love having people over. I do.

Okay, so we're going to rewind how you got here. You know, the premise of this show is that we've done certain things in our lives, and then things outside of our outside of our control, change our perspective, and then it puts us on like a slightly different path, and you've kind of.

Woven those together.

You started in your first professional endeavor in real estate so young.

How did you start so young? My mom is a real estate agent.

My dad was a business owner for many years, but then started getting into development in New York.

And it was just in my blood, Like my parents were builders. I just was in that world for so long. So for a summer job, my mom was like, well, why don't you just get your license? So while I was in college, I went and got my real estate license. I took the test like in Albany. I was in college. Okay, So at nineteen I had my real estate license. I started working summers and then you know, I wanted to

So I have had such a long history in real estate, Like it's crazy. So were you an agent when you were in college?

Yeah, like when other people were having like a I mean I was so immature in college. I cannot imagine and I was real estate. Did people know that you were in college or you were?

Well, I'd like come work for summers and I'd get put on a listing and I'd show.

I don't even know if I told it. I didn't say that. I'm like, I'm in college.

I just I just would show up, and I knew what to do because it was so ingrained in me, Like I just knew how to show. I was always good at sales and showing and describing a beautiful property and I was My transactions were pretty pretty good.

Pretty good. We're a teenager, a teenager anybody.

So once I graduated, I actually was working in a new development with my mom, and it was it was very bare bones, like oftentimes we sell new development off the ground or off of like plans, which I'm really good at. It's like kind of my favorite this was built, but it was like a carcass. Okay, So it was very cold. It was middle of the winter. I graduated that summer went into winter, and my mom was like, you know what, I'm not going to show. It's gross,

And one of the new development, like leads Hall said, was like, okay, she's got something here.

So he plucked me basically from that new development, and then I was put onto four other ones. So I had sold four new developments by the time I was twenty three.

It was crazy wild.

Yeah, did you think about that as like I am on my career path forever or you were like this is.

Good for now. I don't know what I was.

I was just like going with like I can't tell you how many open houses I hosted when I was insanely hungover, like sleeping in the bed.

Of like the staged room, being like I'm die, oh, okay, you want to see this through bedroom? Like I don't know how I got through it, like I was a kid, you know. But I think I just like I've always had. I think it's the New Yorker and me. I've always had this mentality of just like go, go go, And there was no real pause, like I just went with it, so like I was given the opportunity, Like why wouldn't I take it? Yeah, did you ever think that you

There was I mean, I studied abroad and then after college, we actually my parents like what do you want as your college gift? Because I knew I didn't want just like a thing, And I was like, I want to go to South America and I want to work.

And I actually volunteered.

I worked in a comadora with kids in Lima, Peru, and I traveled for like weeks and weeks at a time, and I did everything like.

I did Iasca in the jungle before I was but was cool. Oh I know, nah Shaman. Yeah. Then I was like. Then years later, I was like reading about it in Vogue, I'm like, oh, this is like a thing that people do like in California. I thought you could only do it in the jungle. Oh yeah everyone I know who's doing it in California. Crazy. But like I did all these things and I experienced so much, and then I think, for me, travel really grounds me and gives me the ability to like focus focus on work.

I know it sounds weird, but it's like I just need that escape. I love being immersed in different cultures because it gives me perspective and makes me really appreciate like where I am in life, and like gives me that energy boost to just keep going and.

Do more and do more. Yeah.

I mean we both grew up in the city, and I feel like there was this sense why would you ever live anywhere else? Like just like why would you leave? I mean I've been to almost every city, Like what's better than New York? No?

Really, Like I asked people this all, where is there better? Okay, there's Chicago, but it's like terribly windy and freezing and in the middle of the Midwest, you have California. You can't fly to Europe unless you take away over in New York.

And like for me, being able to get to Europe or Tel Aviv or wherever easily is important. I don't care about going Hawaiian that often, but like also California lifestyle.

I don't know.

I just think New York is the quintessential city. You know, I'm not leaving America, so where am I going to be? Yeah, no, that's totally fair. I mean I ended up leaving for ten years. Like, I didn't think that I was going to leave. I never thought that I would leave, And I thought that I would go to Washington for one year because that was where work took me.

Right, well, that makes sense.

But then I ended up staying for ten years and the whole time, every like everyone in the city was like, but it's so funny being in Washington. Everybody refers to New York as they have like some ties to it. I mean, you know this, nobody in New York even thinks about Washington, Like, nobody thinks that it's even close.

It's very close, right, yeah, yeah, I mean ish, yes, it's talking a couple hours. Yeah, if you take the train. It's like three and a half hours in the train, like go into the Hamptons when there's traffic.

I mean honestly, when I before I had kids, when I lived in DC, I would come up to New York sometimes once a week for like an event or a meeting or something.

Yeah. So yes, it's very easy to go back. And I know, but it seems like a whole other like world. It's because it is another world. It's culturally so it's culturally really different. It's all like all you think about is government news. Yes, yes, that's true. That's why I liked it.

I liked yeah, it need to make sense until it got Actually, another broker in the city in New York told me that DC is actually the number one feeeder city to New York.

Do you think that's true. I just never would have thought about that. That's interesting. I know, peter City, like people stop over and then they continue.

No, like if you're tracking, like where people moved to New York from, like of all of the places they moved to New York from.

Well, I mean I guess that makes sense kind of though it's very different culture. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean, have you even been to Washington since eighth grade? No? No, nobody has. What's like, it's lovely.

It's like being in Brooklyn Heights, to be honest, if yees our neighborhood was beautiful, yeah, it actually is lovely. Yeah, but no, nobody's been there unless you like actually have to go. Okay, So you so you're like selling selling selling, Yah, how did you, like seriously think you were in law school or when did you meet.

Your husband in that? Yeah?

I took my alsat I was about to apply, and I met Abe and he was like, just think if you really like think about it. Do you really want to do this because it's a big commitment, it's three years of school. Do you want to be an attorney? And I was like, absolutely not. Why would I be

I really loved it.

Taught me a lot about construction, which is like another side of real estate that I didn't know that well in a nuanced way. And that also gave me the ability to design and build and I do that all the time now, so it's like it was a great learning experience.

Yeah, how did you end up working sustainability into your work?

I am People don't know this about me, but I'm very passionate about sustainability, very very very not that.

I'm doing the best things in the world, but I drive a Tesla. I don't use Classic in my house.

Like I think it is insane that buildings are not built to really operate and run on themselves.

They easily can, and I was really curious and interested in it, and I just wanted to know, like, what does that mean? How do you actually take those steps to have a building operate on itself?

And it's so easy to do, but a lot of developers don't want to do it because it first of all, it seems like it's a lot that's like Honestly, the biggest part just seems like more work because people aren't

How has that evolved for you in your work, going from just the selling to learning about sustainability and the building and now you're doing much more all encompassing.

Right, Yeah, So I mean with Homegirl, what I do is I mean, I work in interior design, but usually it's design builds, so from start to finish really on any project, down to the furniture. And in terms of like when I talk about sustainability with furniture, it's really about reusing stuff, right, Like I love first DIBs because you can get a beautiful vintage Kegan sofa and refinish it. Like why not?

Why are we not utilizing all this like waste that exists that's not actually waste. Everybody's trying to create the same product that you saw in the seventies now, like we don't have to buy a new piece, we can just cover it. And that's like something that I think my clients really gravitate towards and love because most of them are passionate about it too, whether they realize they are or not, they just.

It needs to be discussed. And then in terms of the construction side, there are lots of small things that you can do to make a project or a building more green. It's like just products you can use, you know, using less concrete, which is really hard on the environment. Interesting, Yeah, things like that.

I mean, fashion and construction are the two biggest factors in global warming and.

It needs to stop. So even if I can do a small part, I'm happy to do it. After this, can I show you all the furniture in my basement for your potential? I have lots in my basement. Definitely. Okay, great, I'm really looking for out it too. How did you think about it?

I mean, for me, the premise of where this show came from is that I loved my career in politics. It was very career your mind did and having three kids so close together was not planned for me and really through my career off track, you have the same basically three kids that I have, Like, how did you think about it? Did you plan? And how have you handled it?

I'm not going to lie. It is challenging.

There are days where I'm like, how am I going to get through all the things that I need to do today?

And I'm starting a new project as well. I'm mescal brand, which I'll talk to you about. But sometimes it's like overwhelming. That being said, I think when you have your own business and you're able to make the important things, like even today, I was able to pick up Levi and his buddy and take them to lunch and then come here, you know. But because I'm able to own my own schedule and make those decisions, it makes a world of difference.

That doesn't really work for me anymore. But as you grow in your career, what I realized is, you know, I became really valuable in my industry. So I say to my developers like, hey, I can't do that, Like I'm not going to be here from ten to six, but I'll be there when there are showings president, and I'll manage the other people. So I think like it is important to get to it.

And I started really young, as you know, so like I had that time to get to this point in my career. But it is important as a mother to get to a certain point in your career where you can make those decisions and sort of make those claims to your bosses or whoever you work for, to say, I'm capable of doing what I need to do and to get done what I need to get done as long as you have faith in me, don't worry about

But if I'm slacking, then that's a conversation to behind. But if I know how to manage my own time right, and I'm selling your building or I'm you know, doing whatever your books or whatever someone does, then that's enough. What are the.

Must haves for you as a parent that you feel like these are the things that I can't miss. I like to be there for dinner. I like to be there for dinner. I like to put my kids bed.

Doesn't happen all the time, and I've learned not to beat myself up for over that. That's a really hard thing I think to get over when your kids are babies, Like putting the baby down was like like I used to break my heart when I couldn't do it because they asked for you at that age. Now it's a little bit easier. My youngest is three, but for me,

To miss those. How did you explain it to him?

I said, Mommy has something really important for work and I just can't miss it. There's no way for me to get out of this, and I'm so sorry. I did not realize it fell on the same day.

I was just very honest with him, Yeah, you know, honestly, like, I feel like that's good for kids to hear sometimes that like you are a person, you have your work, you have your own priorities, Like I mean, like I try to be there at important things for my kids, like obviously, but I do feel like it's okay for kids to hear like you can't the world does not revolve around them. And I agree with the moment in every single time.

I absolutely agree.

I think that's actually something very important for them to learn at a young age.

I also was reading I don't remember what book I read. It might have been match Point years ago. Wasn't that match Point? No, that's a movie that was that.

Book years ago? What with Malcolm? I feel like I knew you were in after this one tipping point? Tipping Point? Was it that point? Okay?

I feel like it was in this book where he said, you know, you're you're not supposed to tell your kids like everything they did is so great.

Yeah, because it's and it's true. It's like, Okay, well that was a good try.

It's the same thing of like I can't be at everything like that's just not real life.

Yeah, you know, so they do. I think it's grounding for them, and they do need to know that, like life doesn't all around them. Not everything they do.

Is perfect, Like things are get hairy, and it's all about how you work it out. Like one day, Abe and I got in like a stupid fight, like a really dumb, dumb argument, and we were like bickering on each other, and my son was like, don't fight, don't fight. And later on we went and I'm being very honest about this because I think it's important for mothers to think every couple fights, and it's also okay for your

We love each other like that's normal.

Yeah, And I think it's important for kids to know and also for parents not to be so hard on them.

So I was like, you can't be perfect all the time. Yeah, Oh, that's interesting.

That's I do try to be really honest with my kids, but not fighting with my husband in front of my kids is something that I really try me too not to do, although now that I'm thinking about it, I probably still do it. Probably the only part I'm missing is telling my kids I'm just fighting with them anybody.

I think because my son had a reaction, we were like, all right, let's have a conversation with him about it, you know, like he realized that we were getting I mean, it wasn't even a big deal. It's not the worst thing for them to see, you know, conflict and resolution.

Yeah, you know, no, it's an important thing for them to say.

So how do you let's let's talk about Ronnie now, Like, how do you think about the relationship with your kids and the show. You're obviously entering this new phase which is more public than you guys have ever been.

Yeah, and I think I don't even really realize how crazy it's going to be. Honestly, I'm like the more i'm I'm like, oh my god, all these things I said, what's going to happen? But how do you think about all of that?

Like, you know, did you choose to have your kids on not on what parameters to around it a little bit?

Do you explain it? Like, how did you explain it to your kids?

Well, we had a very open conversation like mom and dad are going to be on a show. It shows our life, but mostly my life with some friends and my career, and if do you guys want to be on it?

Do you not want to be on it?

Some days, like Levi and Leila came home once, my two older ones and they were like what in the world Mom, Like you're filming and why aren't they Mike and mea we were.

Like, oh all right, stop.

So like some and then one day leave I was like I don't want to do this scene, like I'm not going to and we were like, okay, no problem.

We went to his room.

So I think like giving them control over their own lives it was important during the whole experience, but just being honest with them, like Mommy's on a show, showing them clips like I'm not going to show them the whole thing because we do talk a lot about sex, so.

Quite prepared for those conversations. But but you know what, it's something about it is somewhat like freeing and liberating for me at least, because it is a big deal.

I am exposing a lot of my life. I am opening the doors basically for America to see my life, my relationship, my career. But also like I feel good where I am, you know, and and if I screw up and if I say the wrong thing, like I said the wrong thing, I mean I'm not perfect.

Yeah, I mean probably do you need to be a secure person to be able to go into this because like at this point, like we kind of know what we're signing up for.

Yeah, by opening ourselves up that there's so much.

Scrutiny, Yeah, from the public, and you know a lot of what ends up driving a lot of the ratings. Niche is conflict, right, and there is that.

There certainly is conflict. There is that.

I mean, did you have a kind of comfortable level with conflict going into it?

Like I know some people kind of shy away or like I'm.

Very straightforward, very like almost fault yeah, Like and if there's a problem, I'm like, well, why don't we just address it and move on? Like I don't understand the harping or you know, they like talking about it with other people and being like just.

Say it, what the problem is, resolve it or don't you know?

Like either way, Like you can make a decision right, Like there was one conflict I got in with someone that was sort of like you know, people were like, well, why aren't you more mad? And this and that, and it's like, well, I could decide to be more mad, but like, who does that hurt?

It hurts me, Like I don't need to be so angry. This is what happened, and I'm deciding to move on from it. Or I could also decide not to. But it's like, what's the point in the I don't know. That's just me.

I don't I'm also one of five. I'm used to like getting into conflict. Like we've gotten into many, many things, and typically we move on from them.

You know. It's kind of what you do with a big family. So I'm just used to it.

Yeah, do you feel like you're getting out of this experience what you had hoped? I don't know yet because we haven't aired I think, but I think it's really cool to put yourself in a situation. Maybe that's why I like traveling so much, that there's like an unknown factor, you know, Like I was saying this to Abe, I feel like I just like when I started, when we started filming, I was like, I feel like I entered

It's funny.

I do feel like I'm in a point in my life now where I'm running towards things that I don't know because I want to have different kinds of yea. Up until this point, I've spent so much of my life thinking about creating predictability and like defining who I am, like really getting good at things that I think I'm good at, And now I'm actually doing the opposite right, So I kind of feel like it's what you're describing it.

I want to just try something different. It's cool, Like there's not another word I can think like, it's just a very interesting way to live where it's like, here I am starting this new project and I don't have control over this project.

And I'm also I'm very type A like. Before this, I'm controlling. I'm type A like I know how to run my business, but going into this it's I don't have control. So cool, It's just a very different way of life. How did you manage that timing like with having to I mean.

It's always difficult. Yeah, it's a big book of time, right, It's very difficult for me. It was really really hard.

But you know once you get it through your head that you will not have control over time and you just have to go with the flow and you cannot schedule the way you scheduled before the show started.

That's when things get easier, believe it or not.

It's like you kind of let your clients know I may not be available on these dates.

You know, please speak to this person instead, and then things just get easier because you know how to manage their expectations.

You're not like I'll be there on the call and then you can't take the call, and then you feel like an asshole. You know, I would imagine that also happened with personal relationships like friendships, that like, if you have to spend a bulk amount of time with a certain group of people, that kind of naturally cuts out the time I said, I have such limited time with my friends in the first place, kind of cuts out the amount of time you'd have for like the other people in your lives.

I'd say, I am feel very very very blessed and very grateful that I have the most incredible friends who have just been like so supportive. Like I I'm still best friends with my high school friends, believe it or not, and like a lot of my college friends, we don't have to speak all the time for us to have the exact same friendship and the exact same relationship. Those are the friends I think that really matter because they,

So I do feel very lucky of the friends that I have. Who in the cat did you have a relationship with beforehand?

I had a relationship with Si, with Uba, I knew Jemma. I think it's so.

Interesting looking at again, like being New Yorkers and looking at you guys actually live.

In all different neighborhoods. Isn't that cool?

Because I do feel like people tend to get very locally focused in the city and like only socialized with the people that are kind of in their neighborhoods.

Well, say, actually lives very close to me, like Tribeca and Brooklyn, especially that part of Brooklyn are like, I mean, she's like ten minutes in a cab.

It's so easy. But yeah, I know what you mean. It is cool that we're in all these different areas.

So did you have close relationships with them before or it was more like you this was the closest time you had spent together. Well, with the girls that I mentioned, I mean we ran in the same circle. Si and I most mostly have like very common friends and uber like and I just like fell in love when we first met.

But yeah, we definitely spent the most time together on the show for sure. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's actually funny.

Last summer, I had a different friend who was in one of the alternate casts because there were like a couple of different groups.

Don't even know, I feel like I'm breaking news now.

There were like a couple of different groups that they were talking to, and I have a friend.

Well, don't worry you won, I didn't know. I didn't know this. Oh oh oh, okay, Well I have a friend who was one of the other ones. What one was that? I mean, there wasn't a name for it.

There was just like a couple of different groups of people that they were talking to to see who like they did screen groups of friends.

Yeah, ooh, Jesse, oh yes.

Well you guys went out, so clearly I was gonna ask, what do you think it was about the group that that one?

Honestly, we are hysterical. I am telling you.

I watched some of the episodes, not many, but I tell you, I mean like crying, laughing, like also, when we get together, it's just like we riff on each other, you know what, you know, friends that you have that like you go out and it's just like this one comes back with that retort and this response, and everyone's just like laughing and it's funny, and it's like we're all really witty, we all like get the point, some of us, most of us, and it's fun.

We have fun together. It's just like fun moments.

I feel like you're describing what every like group of friends now thinks to themselves. I was editing the episode that we're putting out next week is with a very old friend of mine, and she was saying, how like the trend now of like group of friends, like, God, we're so funny, we.

Should be a podcast.

Really, Like that's what I feel like you're describing that, Like, God, we're so funny, we should be a show, and now everybody will love it.

Yeah, I see people like it.

It feels also very I hate to say it because it's trite, but Sex and the City, like everyone is one of those characters in a sense.

You know, it's like we're very individual, but we're great as a group.

Yeah, I mean that show like growing up in the city, that Sex and City really did revolutionize the way that women socialize.

Like I have a very specific memory. I watched it like crazy, and I felt very connected to it.

Yes, I mean I was obviously we're you are, but we were like, yes, like that could be our lives.

Do you think that now we'll see you guys in the show?

I really hope so, because I think it's a healthier not that Housewives isn't healthy, but you know, there's a lot of conflict and resolution, there are healthy relationships, there's a lot of fun, and there's also like women with balancing careers and kids and a lot going on while still like you know, spending time with their friends and having those healthy friendships as well.

So I think there's a lot.

That we're giving younger women, you know, and also women of our age that just want to relate and like, you know, even like there was there. I remember the scene when we were filming it, my son like but like starts like peeing.

I don't know if it's going to be on camera, but like he just starts peeing, and I'm like, oh my god, you know, but this is life. It happens. I was potty training and he was being everywhere you know.

Before this, I was running errands with my three year olds in town and she looks over at me and she's like, I have to go to the potty.

And usually when she says that, it means she already did.

And I was like, oh good, I'm standing in them all relax on main Street and she probably just peede on the ground.

She did not, fortunately, but I was like, I.

Know where this is going to end, with me like throwing my purse over it and hoping that I.

Can stop it.

Yeah.

I know, it's like a whole thing. It's not easy to potty train, but it's it's good.

For people to be able to relate to it. No, it's very relatable. It's relatable.

And I do feel like that's been sort of a general commentary of like the like the hardcore Bravo fans that a lot of these groups that have been on Housewives shows for a long time are getting really serious and kind of dark, and like they're into it and they want to keep following it and they feel very invested, but like they're looking for something a little lighter, because like it's getting so deep and so dark.

Yeah, and you're hoping that this is going to do that. I definitely think that. I think this definitely does that.

I mean, it's just not dark, yeah, like there, and I think a lot of us are just I mean, I wouldn't say everyone, but I think most of us are. So I don't want to say anything negative because I don't want to like shit on anyone else. But I think we're just in places in our lives where with so much going on that we're not.

Getting like so in the weeds, in like such a dark space with each other, you know what I mean, Like we just don't have the time for that, you know, to be like ah, like in our beds, like so upset angry in Twitter and all that, like we're busy right exactly, Like I can't just like be like precipitating over like the thing that we had just talked about, or like whatever it is to get like super dark and like.

These writing holes. Like everyone's like, did you reread it? What it said? I'm like, I don't even I don't know how to read it.

I should, but I don't know how. I don't have Twitter, like I have it, but I don't do anything on it.

So I feel like another piece of that is like actually the spousal relationships that it does feel like over the years, a number of people have chosen to go on, whether it's Housewives or a different show, because they actually wanted to get financial security, to leave their partners, or to expose it, or you know, something along those Now.

I never thought about that, but I've been hearing that a lot. It's very interesting. I think it's interesting.

I mean, I think it's an interesting take on the new feminism that like, if you don't have your own income stream, then maybe exposing your partner.

And getting your own platform.

It seems like a real painful way to do it, like to expose it to America into the world.

But I was making more money before I got on the show. I swear to that. Is that gonna feel worth it? Like, I mean, really, that's very interesting.

I think there is something empowering for a lot of women who don't have an income stream to be able to like create a character and in themselves, you know, which is really just their true self.

You really can't fake it on these shows. That's another you just can't.

The minute you start being faked, the minute you look like a version of yourself that is not real, and the fans and the viewers pick up on it in five seconds. So I think it's really interesting when you see because I've seen these shows where like people start to shift and act a certain way and feel it immediately.

But yeah, that is a really interesting way to put it. And yeah, I could definitely see that. I could definitely see that.

I think it's it sort of goes along with the debate about like what is feminist in appearance now, like is it still feminists to have all of the.

Implants and surgery is to look the way you want or not?

In my book, but I don't. I respect it. It's so funny because I really I breastfed three kids. Like I need to get a boob lift. Okay, I have no problem in saying it.

By the way, I think you just heard my producer laughing in the back of this, because that's the conversation we had at dinner. I last night, at dinner, I compared my baby two long tubes socks.

Oh my god, I joke about it. I'm like pancakes cleaning the floor. Anybody knew, like a mop anihilate, Like that's me. Okay, It's ridiculous. I mean, I probably shouldn't have breastfed for as long as I did. But I loved it, you know, but it ruined my boobs. I have double d's doubles. I'm now a beak. I have tiniest book. Okay, that's the best, the biggest. It's crazy. I was like known for my big boobs and I have tiny boobs now.

I had a breast reduction before I had kids, so I had like giant boobs and now I just sort of have empty ones like exactly they're looking so everyone to Everyone keeps telling me, like, you're going to have to get an implant, but I.

Really don't want to. I want to not want to. Yeah, and I don't think I will. I mean, I don't. I know that everyone's going to like meeting doctors or probably try to encourage me to do it, but whatever. So it won't be a perfect boob, but it'll be higher than now, higher than my meeting my belly buttons exactly exactly.

But yeah, no, I'm I'm very much like into looking like yourself. I don't judge anyone who wants to have plastic surgery or whatever. I think it's fine. It's all about how you feel at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what you're doing. But for me personally, I just like looking like myself and I think it's okay to age, Like I don't mind those things.

Where's the line for you when you think about where your lines are, like what you open up, like whether it's on social media, whether it's on Ronnie, Like if you did say the show continues on, if you continue on with it, if you did decide to go through a surgery like that, Oh, I would you.

Do it on the show? I would totally show it. I would totally. That doesn't bother me at all. Have you decided where lines are for you, I'd say, Like with my family, Like with my kids, like if anything felt too personal with them, like if they were I don't know, if they were like having an issue with a friend or like something at school, Like I would never want their lives because they didn't sign up for this at the end of the day. Same with my husband, like if he ever.

Felt like something was really personal for him and he didn't want to film, and I would never ask him to, Like, yeah, hard stuff.

For me, I'm.

Very open, Like I've always been just a very open person. I don't have that much that I feel like I wouldn't share. I don't know why, I just I don't know.

I feel like it's the it's like lack of filter, maybe because I think it is. Yeah, I'm just like, you know, let's go, oh, let's put it all out there.

I feel like, look, I think once you anybody can get to this place whereas you know, if you're okay with not being perfect all the time, with not like having the right story, with people having backlash, and look, granted I have not gone through probably the backlash that I will go through in the upcoming season, so I don't really know what to expect.

I don't know how that's going to feel.

But I'm also going into it knowing that it exists and that I'm okay with it. So I think if you, if you have that kind of mindset, like what could really go wrong in a sense, you know? I mean, of course, I'm sure there will be times where I'm like, shit, I WI shouldn't say that, or damn, like it sucks that people see me this way. But I know who I am, I know what my intentions are. I know I'm a good person. I care about my friends, and

We're fight in front of our kids apparently, but you apologize, We apologize, and we love each other and we have like mutual respect, which I think oftentimes on these shows you don't always see. You see a lot of.

Women who don't seem to be respected by their husbands, and it's disappointing to watch. And I think that's an.

Encouraging theme where you get to see a husband who really like supports their wives. I think all of our husbands are like that on the show, to be honest, that's gray of us have husbands that really promote us and care about us and want us to do the best.

We do. Need to see more of that. That's great.

Yeah, what do you think not in terms of like the storylines of that are going to come out, but by becoming more public and becoming I guess associated with reality TV in general, Like, what do you think are like the best case and worst case scenarios for you. The best case scenario is that everyone loves me, and I don't know.

I don't really know. That's a good question. I have to think that one through.

I mean, worst case scenario is that someone in my family would be upset or hurt, like even my siblings because they're on the show a little bit by anything I said that would be really work, that would crush me. I would never want to hurt like my close friends or family in any sort of way.

Best case would be that people are excited about what I have to offer, that women are inspired, and that makes me emotional to even say, honestly inspired to be mothers.

And this is something that I've struggled with for years, understanding that women are constantly giving up their careers once they have kids. And I'm just so not that type of person.

And I don't judge people giving up their careers because I totally understand why you'd want to spend every minute with your kids, but they end up going to school.

And then what are you left with?

You know, and I really want to know inspire women to continue with their career path because I think it's so hell healthy, it's healthy for your marriage, it's healthy for your kids.

I think it's healthy for you know, your own mind.

Yeah, I think the hard part where people and I mean some people just leave the workforce that they want to, but I think.

And I get that, and I don't judge that.

Yeah, well, I think the place that it becomes hard is when your career path doesn't match up with the amount of bandwidth.

That you have. That was my problem.

So I didn't even see a way not just to stay in my own job, but to stay in my field, because my field was twenty four to seven, Like there's no a little bit control your own schedule version.

Of being a political strategist, like you have to be.

That's you know, And what's so unbelievable to me about it and not that And I don't know what that kind of career is like because obviously mine's way more flexible. But like men don't have this issue. Yeah for the most part, you know, maybe some, but for the most part, women are the ones expected.

I mean, first of all, we have to birth the child, we have to feed the child, we have to nourish it. But it's like all on us. And then it's then what then your husband gets to have this bus career and then you're like stuck like taking care of kids, and then one day they're ten and you're like, shit, I have nothing to do all day, Like what am I going to do?

Yeah?

So I honestly very I'm very impressed with your podcast because I think it's so important for women to think about pivoting, like how do I turn my original career into something that works for me as a mother?

That's been the piece that is the most fulfilling for me. And having these conversations of being able to see because I think that people sometimes write off their previous experience and saying, oh, well, it's not related to the thing I'm thinking about doing, or there's no way to translate those skills, or this doesn't translate. But to be able to get into the headspace where you can see, yeah, it might not be the same field, it might not even be the same terms, but the skills that I

Like maybe you're good at baking, maybe you want to like have a YouTube channel on baking and then you see where it goes. It's better than not trying anything, right, if you're staying at home anyway. I mean, they're just like all, there's all these opportunities now. But I mean again, I think being a mother full time is probably way harder than what I do.

It's too hard to be I'm going to do it too hard, Like I just can't deal. I just cannot deal. Yeah, that's way. I respect it. I really respect it.

And I also feel like it's made me less judgmental that when I before I had kids, I was very judgmental of women who didn't prioritize their careers and didn't continue to work after they had kids. Like I have this very specific memory of seeing Nicole Wallace being President Bush's White House Press secretary and leaving after a year and saying that it was for personal reasons, and I remember thinking, how could she do that, Like she's betraying all of us, all of us women, Like she is

Absolutely absolutely, I think I never really understood it. Yeah, Like now I really do, especially as your kids grow up and you have to like have these hard conversations with them, you know, Like I'm at that age where my son is eight and a half and we have to have conversations about feelings and friendships and using his iPad and not. Like he has like group chats like FaceTime with like four different boys, and one of the

But I mean, listen, mothers, stay at home moms, I respect you tremendously.

Yeah, you know, one of the things that I think about a lot with my son is how to raise a good sensitive boy who become a good sensitive man, Like right now. He is sensitive and he always has been sensitive. And I don't think that we have good models or even language for how we should be raising the kind of men that we want to see. Like we talk a lot about about like how do rethink it?

I grew up with a very very very warm Israeli father that hugged me and kissed me.

To this day, he like smooches my face. I'm like, I'm not four. You have to stop like he does it on camera.

But I remember, and I still like believe this that he would always say all you need is love. You need nothing else. You could have nothing, but if you have love, that's everything. So I think like if you just like overwhelmingly love your kids and like smother them, it keeps them grounded and sensitive and in a way

I really believe that as a parent, Like, and I think we're also society now, especially where there's like also on Instagram or all these targeted things like don't yell your kids, don't put them in.

A time out, don't do this, You're going to damage your kids. Do you get those targets? Yeah, I mean I do put my kids in time out.

I mean true, Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it. But however you do things is how you do them. And as long as you keep showing your kids, I think like love and affection and those things that are important for them for their soul, whatever whatever tactic you use to get them to like stop climbing up your pantry is okay.

Right, No, I totally agree with you.

I think that there's I think there's like we are raising the first generation where there's gonna be like a little bit of a confusion, Like I do believe in some version of gentle parenting for some children. Yeah, like in fact, some of my own children and some of my own children, it does not work with right but also holding high standards and holding them accountable for their actions.

I agree with you that it depends on the kids. Yeah, absolutely. That being said, like it's not a free for all. There are rules, and the minute that they decide that there aren't, or they're taught that there aren't, they will not follow rules for I think for the rest.

Of their lab I know that, Like everything is for negotiation nothing. Yeah that and you know a teacher taught me this actually this year where my son is a negotiator, like big time, all my kids are, but my older son, I mean he learns.

It from us, from both negotiating. I was aware, do they possibly?

I mean all we do is negotiate with each other, abe, and I like, I'll be like, can I have a massage people on my back?

Is? So what am I gonna get?

Everything is a negotiation, But one of the teachers who were talking about and they were like, you know, LEVI say, he's not like having trouble listening, but like a couple of things here and there have happened. They're like, you know, we find that strong boundaries work with him.

If you say no, just stay, stay with it, stay with the no, do not shift, do not say if he does this, you said no the first time and that's it.

And I and I put it into practice in it like changed him. Yeah, it changed him, Like I say no and that's it.

He moves on. Yeah, totally. And I think it really does depend on the kid.

Like I feel like, yeah, with my older two, they're all a little bit negotiators, but they understand like Okay, I think I see that you've had a well formed argument here, Like I'm willing to go for it. With my third one, she will just push every boundary possible and so no needs to be now. Yeah, otherwise I'll regret it for the rest of my life.

It's so interesting. Yeah, that's that's another I think that's.

A really important tip for parents, Like they're not all the same, you know, like you have to treat each one as the individual that they are, yeah, And I explain it to my other kids, So why can that one do something when this one? And I'm like, well, you don't listen so much, so that's why you're a little bit of a better listener.

Then I can trust you are, yeah. And also being honest, like some of my kids are more honest than others. If you're more honest, you'll get more. Yeah, we've started to enter that phase too.

Just to wrap up, what is one thing We're going to do a big overview here, okay, but what is one thing that you think that at the time you saw it's like a real negative, a kind of a low point, and you weren't sure how you were going to get out of it, and that now in retrospect you see that it really launched you.

My failing handbag business. There you go. It was the hardest. People don't know this about us. Nobody asks. I feel like people assume that I am like I mean, they say this on the show too, Like then I'm like this trust fund kid, and like everything's perfect. I went through a really hard time where I started a fashion business and then my husband left his firm and he worked there, very big firm at the time to start

But weren't going to like keep asking for help. But we put ourselves in that position, so we had to crawl out of it. And I remember there were certain times where when we were going through it, I was like, I'll never get out of this, but I knew that I would, and.

He was very positive, always so positive.

But it was the lowest part of my life, yet somehow it turned into the most incredible experience ever. From that, I started my design build firm because I knew how to like market do market research and and design really you know, a trend forecast from my history and fashion. And my husband started his law firm that did incredibly, incredibly well, and we just learned how to be business owners. It was like the most we always joke was the most expensive.

Degree that we ever got, because we both have, you know, degrees after we went to college, but hardest experience.

Best thing we ever learned. Do you think there was a change in perspective for you? Absolutely.

I knew what it felt like for so many Americans to go through failing businesses. I understood what it felt like to have children and not know if you could like pay the bills. Like I never thought I would be in that position. I come from a comfortable family and.

So does Abe. But we saw what that was like, and it's incredibly hard, you know.

And I think having friendships, having people to talk to about it, you know, being able to like to fall back on the people that were closest to us really got us through.

And having each other got us through. But also, more than anything, just knowing that you would get through.

Inside of myself, I knew somewhere beneath it all that I would get through it, and I think it gave me the courage to actually like crawl out of the hole we were in.

What have we not covered that we should. I think we've covered a lot. You better watch the show July sixteenth on the premiere. Thank you so much, Erin for coming on with us. Been really fun, really really fun.

Thanks for listening to this candid convo episode off she Pivots. Check back in weekly for more conversations with inspiring women. To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram at she pivots the podcast. Leave a rating and comment if you enjoyed this episode to help others learn about it. A special thank you to our partner Marie Claire and the team that made this episode possible.

Talk to you next week.

She Pivots is hosted by me Emily Tish Susman, produced by Emily eda Veloshik, with sound editing and mixing from Nina Pollok, and research and planning for Christine Dickinson and Hannah Cousins.

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