Welcome to, she persisted, I'm your host CD son. Every Friday. I post interviews about mental health, dialectical behavioral therapy and Teenage life. These episodes break down my mental health Journey. Teach skills to help you cope with life and showcase testimonials from individuals, including teens, just like you. Whether you've struggled yourself or just want to improve your mental Fitness. This podcast is your inspiration to live a life, you love and keep persisting.
This week on she persisted what is depression and anxiety. We told in today's narrative that they are illnesses, but they not illnesses. There's no research to confirm that. He's no neurobiological current books or getting in the brain at chemical imbalances. A theory that has been disproved multiple times, no scientist and top people in Harvard Kings all over the world. In top, universities will tell you that that is not an
acceptable value. But yet, that's what the public are given and most doctors will tell me patience. You have a chemical imbalance. You like, let's fix it with her medication. Keep jabbing all. Nice, fix your broken arm, you hadn't broken brain, it takes your brain. That's the wrong messaging, and it's also the research shows, it's actually made things worse. This week's DVT scale is turning the mind. Turning the mind is like facing a fork in the road.
You have to turn your mind towards the acceptance Road in a way from the road of rejecting reality. You are choosing to accept the choice to accept. Does not itself equal acceptance, but it puts you on the path towards acceptance. Rather than continuing towards rejecting reality. So here's the steps. First, you're going to observe the fact that you're currently not accepting look for the anger bitterness annoyance.
Avoiding emotions. Those thought processes that are like, why me why is this happening? I can't stand this. It shouldn't be this way. You get the point. Next, you're going to go within yourself and make an inner commitment to accept reality as it is. There are you're going to do it again over and over and over again, you're going to keep turning your mind to accept each.
Time, when you come to the fork in the road where you can reject reality or choose to accept it. Lastly, you're going to develop a plan of catching yourself in the future when you drift out of acceptance, whatever that means for you, this is not an easy skill. It's one that takes a really long time to master and it's costly something that you're
continuously doing. It's not like you're doing deep breathing one time, and then you get out of that emotional state, you're revisiting turning the mind. Every single time you feel yourself, rejecting reality. So it's a great practice and tool to have in your toolbox, but it's a, Again, an ongoing effort that you're making, but it can have a huge benefit. So with that, let's dive into the episode. Hello? Hello. And welcome to. She persisted. If you're new here, I'm so happy
you're here. Make sure you head over to Instagram at actually. Persisted podcast, send me a DM and say, hi. If you are a returning listener. Welcome back. I have an amazing episode for you today, and I know you're going to love it. Today's guest is dr. Caroline leaf. And this is one of literally my favorite interviews that I've ever. Done. She is just an absolutely phenomenal, clinician
individual. She has her own podcast, we'll get more into her in a minute, but no matter where you are at in your journey or supporting someone on their Journey, this episode is going to bring you so much value, and I can't wait. It is almost Thanksgiving. I'm recording this episode the night before. It's going to go live and I just wanted to put a little reminder, in the intro to put your mental health. First this week we can't help others unless we help. Up ourselves first.
And I think that goes for any interaction, if we're not taking care of our own mental health, we're not going to be able to validate others and offer support and resources, were going to be irritable, and it's just not going to go well, so, especially for me this week, with family time, with going home from college, that's something that I'm focusing on. Is making sure that my mental health is in check and place in its best spot so that I can show up as my best self and my
relationships. So I wanted to give you that reminder to put your mental health first and prioritize, what makes you Feel good and show up as your best self so that you can give that version of yourself to others. This week as things are more stressful during the holidays. So happy early Thanksgiving. I hope you have a wonderful week and let's get into this week's guest today.
I am interviewing dr. Caroline Leaf, she is a communication pathologist and cognitive neuroscientist with a masters and PhD in communication, pathology. And she also has her Bachelor's in science and Logo politics. So, she Specializes in cognitive and meta cognitive neuropsychology. And since the early 1980s, she's researched the mind brain connection. The nature of mental health, in the formation of memory.
She was one of the first people in our field to study how the brain can change also known as neuroplasticity, which we dive into and so much depth. So, if you're like, what the heck is that? Don't worry. I got you covered. We talk about what that is, and then how it applies to things like depression, and anxiety, and Trauma. So this is just a phenomenal episode. She's also the best-selling author of switch on your brain thinking. Succeed and thinking eat yourself smart as well as many
other books. And you might remember her books from various guest on the podcast that have said, there's some of their favorite reads and resources. So she's just an absolutely amazing author and clinician the other way that you might recognize her is that she is the host of cleaning up the mental Mass. It's a top charts, mental health podcast. It's an amazing resource and all of course, link it in today's
show notes. So if you enjoyed this conversation, make sure that you head over to her podcast so you can continue to consume your content, learn more. About your mental health and cleaning up the mental Mass, which we dive into in a really brief way in this episode. So all the ways that you can connect with Dr. Leaf will be in today's show notes but if you want to follow her on Instagram, her handles at Dr. Caroline leaf?
And her website is Dr? Leaf.com, all of that, will be linked in the show notes, don't worry as well as her podcast, but if you want to give her a follow and connect, that's where you can do it. So, with that being said, I hope you love this interview and learn so much from it just like I did in this. Conversation with her and let's dive into it. Thank you so much dr. Lee for joining me today on to persisted. I'm so excited to have you here and to dive into this amazing
conversation. Thank you Sadie. And I'm very, very excited to join you and very impressed with what you doing. So, thank you for what you're doing. It's a so necessary to important seem to you seem to yell. It's what I want to start by setting a foundation for listeners and talking about what neural plasticity is and your work there. I think it's difficult to kind of move into how we can shift. Behaviors and thoughts, and all these things without talking
about neuroplasticity. So walk me through that and how that connects to mental health. Absolutely. Okay. So neuroplasticity is the ability of the mind to change the brain so implicit in the dust in the, in the deformation, is the fact that the mind and the brain are secret. And that's not a conversation that many people have or here, because we are sold the concept that the mind is the brain, but it's not.
And, as long as we understand the cut, the current narrative, which says, Your mind is your brain and your brain basically makes you do it. So it's almost as though, the the message is that you've got this illness inside your brain and it's just waiting. It's a disease in waiting and they life happens and the disease gets triggered and not manifest. And then you get a diagnosis and a label and a treatment and a cure, but none of that actually works. And that's been that philosophy.
I've just described has been going on for about 40 years, actually 100, but very strongly for the last 40, 50 years and the Last 40, 50 years has also been tracking it research wise and it's been a disaster. It hasn't worked. It's exacerbated the problem. It's made it worse and there's more suicides. There's it's actually made everything. I've just been writing a journal article on this this morning for based on my research.
So neuroplasticity is the ability to understand that with our mind we can actually change the brain. So the brain is never the same, it always changes. So, right now it's changing at 400 billion actions per second because of your mind, if I had a dead person. Next Me that person's brain wouldn't be doing anything but the fact that we are alive and having the conversation and this
viewers and listeners. We, if I had to link you up to the technology, I used to in your Scientific Technology. I use for my research, we would see massive changes happening side of your brain and response in your brain. So, neuroplasticity means that our brain changes in response to our mind. And you take that little deeper. That means that what is online? Can we control it? And the answer is, yes, and we'll talk about what mind is, maybe the next questions or whatever.
And so, We can actually direct neural plasticity so we can direct the changes and that's so important because how our brain changes will manifest in our behaviors and our behaviors. Our communication would be saying what we do. So life happens or mind processes it into the brain, the brain changes, and the week, I can show you images and Protestant in a moment. And then what about? However, the way our brain changes, then basically produces
or communication. So if you've been abused, maybe childhood or pets. To be a tumor and that's that is processed into the brain and changes the brain in the wrong way. Also changes the body because the brain and the body work together. And then that manifests as basically toxic behavioral symptoms and it doesn't mean that you're a bad person or that there is a drain disease. It just means that there's something going on and you have to rewire it.
So neuroplasticity, wonderful aspect that you can actually tune into your behaviors in this way to these four signals and we can talk about how to do that. To. But you can tune into your patterns and your signals and become like a sought to detective, literally and change your brain back and you re reorder it and rewire it and that obviously takes time etcetera. But that's also promoted Ester City, so it's a great thing. So it's a really, it's crazy to think about it.
Kind of hurts your brain. If they whoa, like the the amount of change and how much potential there is there, but it's no one can think. Well, this situation is unchangeable or this experience is depression anxiety because that's not possible. Things are constantly changing. And so I absolutely love that. Another thing that I want to clarify before we dive into, specifically, depression and anxiety, and changing the mind. There is detoxing the brain.
I know this is a huge part of your work and what you talk about. So what does that mean to detox your brain or your mind? So, I talked a lot about cleaning up the mental mess and I talked about the fact that we can clean it up because if I divide, that we are actually empowered to do that, and what that means is that we are going to be had toxic Experiences, adverse experiences, whatever
they are. Whether it's a persistent stuff happening in childhood early, adolescence etcetera of the pandemic, whatever it is, that is has everything experience. You have good, good bad and ugly goes into the brain, through the mind and basically, anything that's toxic. Why is in as a toxic change in the brain and that thing changes. Brain functionality actually causes brain damage and stimulates response from the immune system to try and fix that.
Because the news about your survival and the toxic Going straight into survival and that then sets off a whole Cascade of reactions to your body, right, down to the level of your DNA. And basically detoxing is becoming a way of your thumb, as actually mentioned earlier on the phone from the patterns in your life. So maybe there's a persistent depression which is just one part of the pattern. It's not a cure disease, depression is not a disease.
It's basically it's a warning signal but it will come along with behaviors and perspective. It comes along in a package with fear for different types of signals. So the pattern to the The signals that thing comes from a change in your brain and so detoxing your brain is the process of looking at what is the big pattern in my life? I'm feeling excessively anxious or depressed then actually looking deeper what is that it down to the all the way down to
the root cause? So it's a process of embracing processing and reconceptualizing. So deconstructing and reconstructing, you're going to change what's happened to you because it happened, but you can change what's in you because whatever's happened to you. It gets wide until In any to the genes that every cell of your body. So not only is the experience going to go into your brain and it goes into your brain like a tree. And I've got a little client
over here. That's that would be a healthy experience. And this will be a toxic experience. When you can provide detoxing the brain, we literally want to get rid of these and turn them into these. So re never experienced. Looks like becomes a tree in your brain. This is the change in your plasticity is changing, and it's growing these inside your brain and then and they made of proteins detox. Thing is finding what finding these tuning into them and then getting them up.
Like they've got a root, you know, you've got to put a root out of a weed, out of the garden, roots and all otherwise, it will grow. So that's basically what it is. So you have spent the last 38 years, researching that and funnily enough. Katie the back in the 80s. When I started my work that they didn't believe the brain could
change. And I was sitting at her science lecture and after all neurologist who was taking giving us, that lecture said, oh well the brain can change and when people have had any kind of traumatic Oriental traumatic brain injury or a sports injury. You just got to teach our patients to compensate. And I immediately thought that's kind of be, right? Because we are always changing. I, every moment of the day is different and our mind uses our
brain. So if I must mind is changing because experience is changing the things, our brains changing. And I challenge that professor and I did some of the first, neuroplasticity research, back in the 80s. There's a Ted Talk on. I did, I did a Ted Talk on the Sun. The ridiculous question of neuroplasticity, but It's awful. Because what it does is it tells you and I and anyone who's battling and that's all of us. By the way, isn't anyone? Who isn't that thing?
Sometimes it gets worse in your life and sometimes not as bad. But the all battling with mental health, it's just life is just very tough and this adverse senses, but it tells us that it's okay to be messy. And there is a way of managing the mess and cleaning up the mental me. So detoxing the brain is this recognition? That's okay to making this. That's not who I am. It's coming because of let's find the because of And it's reconstructed into something that actually works for me and
not against. It's crazy how far we've come. I came from a psychology lecture literally 20 minutes ago and we were talking about neuroplasticity and how the brain is constantly changing and during your critical period, it's so important for these connections because the brain changes, then you're less able to acquire languages easily.
So it's insane how much we're still learning about the brain and how things are changing and how far we've come from that belief that the brain is stagnant and unable to adapt. It was this recently. As the 80s. It's only since then that he's with the Advent of MRI technology that people have actually been able to see the changes in the brain. So up until then, I mean, when I did my research in the late 80s, early 90s, it was totally new to talk about mr. Satti.
I had neurologist saying oh it was just lucky when you're scientist and at that stage Neuroscience was in its infancy. Yeah saying. Oh well that can't happen. You just lucky and then it's happened to like a thousands pits, thousands of people. It's not lucky. It's a medical miracle, is it? Ya like it, sir. It's the reality, it's how we are. And to understand that you really have to understand mind and brain and the difference between the two and how they
work together. And the other thing you mentioned certain periods is a lot of teaching around that and there's also been a lot of counter research showing that the, I don't know what they telling you what, how they teach you, and hopefully, they're giving you the most up-to-date research, but you you're not stuck in critical periods. They are critical periods for development, but if you miss out on a certain period, it doesn't bode.
Doesn't set up the rest of your life in a - tone you can actually catch up your brain. Why rewires it never stops? It's doing it at 400 billion actions all day long for the rest of your life. So you're right. Can always be changed. Whatever's happened to you doesn't matter what age, what stage, how far you can change your brain, the brain can change itself. You change the brain. This week's episode is brought
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Are you working to shift emotions? What exactly are you doing? I'm going to explain what that is. So let's Sweet sometimes psychology can be very confusing because it shows lots of words around. So let me break down the whole process so he has a brain and in ask outside of real one, for your listeners are not holding a real brain is just a moment, just pulled it off or Dusk and off my desk. I did used to have a real brain in a jar and everything, but this is a little easier to. Okay.
So essentially this is not your mind and I have another model here it is. And the Muslim coming up now is your typical. You would have seen this all over the place and doctors offices and so on. This is a brain and a body. So this is not your mind, neither of these are your mind because if you were dead as I already said, they would just be disintegrating. But as you sitting here, listening to me, your mind is a very is stimulating these to actually respond.
So your aliveness is your mind. So your mind is the driving force. That actually makes your brain in your body work and so therefore if therefore that's the case, if we have a messy mind and unmanaged mind, we're going to send a an unmanaged signals through the brain of the body and that's going to create a mess in the brain and the body. So, I'll conversation right now. We're talking as we started up. As you would have set this up, you would have put in the show notes.
You would have had a title, that could be like the sea. So we take a plant and you think if you're growing a tree, you plant the seed. So the title of the podcast, think of it as being the seat as we started speaking and our back and forth and his arm onto your questions and explaining. That is all electromagnetic sound waves, electromagnetic life. Nice little coming at you. The visuals I'm holding up all of that is coming at you.
It's coming from my mind through my brain, to you your, as electromagnetic light waves, Etc. Your mind grabs that because your mind is actually an electronic electromagnetic energy force. It's a gravitational field and it's all around you and it's through you a dead person. Doesn't have that. For example, if I put a qeeg on you and I now we would see energetic, rooty energy, the different frequencies of the
brain. If he did a stick scam, you would see oxygen in MRI we if you didn't EKG in other words that we would see response, but if we did that on a dead person who wouldn't see response. So the mind is that, aliveness that response that we see. So this conversation the seed was, as a person, read the title of the podcast then. Actually, speaking, all these sound waves in grabbed by your mind and they've been built into the root system of this of the
street. So the roots are the source of the information will And then, as soon as you build it, because half of this is happening at speeds of 10 227, which is inconceivable in our particular and unconscious mind, which is not unconscious, it's not the subconscious, it's the unconscious inner in. So, all of that stuff, is the root system everything that I'm saying and then immediately at the same time you uniquely interpret what I'm saying?
And that's these watches. So the branches above the ground or the interpretation of the source input, your That's different to your listeners, to every listener that you have. So you have 500 listeners to the show is 500 different interpretations of what I'm saying, and all of them are correct because all our do own unique interpretation. So this what I've just described is a thought, tree a tree, it's
the product of the mind. So when we talk about neuroplasticity, which we did and we talked about changing the brain, what we're doing is we're talking about the thought being built into the brain. And the change is that you These trees, they grow on the neurons in the brain and they feed by the glial cells which would have all don't about in Psychology to
a growth to this. Particularly the this whole system over here is going to grow on the dendrites so different that as a neurons connect, you have a synapse in the brain and that's something memories grow. It's just where you have the initial contact in the initial short-term phase of the memory, but their actual above the cell body. You've got that Branch also growing out of the highwomen. Head, if you think of a head and hair growing out of the head, that's where these are growing.
So, these are made of proteins and the, and the neuroplasticity is that you take your, you taking my words and energy goes in the brain. As soon as it shows up in the brain, the brain is then responding, electromagnetic, and candy cane genetically, and you make protein. So you actually growing proteins and those proteins arrange themselves into trees. So, these trees of thoughts and the thoughts he made of memories. So, thoughts are not the same as memories as much.
As mind is not the same as Great. So mind works through the brain and the body and bold trees stimulates the building of trees. So these are made of proteins and they're growing on the dangerous. So that's what neuroplasticity looks like. So thought is the product of the mind and the thought contains memories. So, so one thought can have like at the end of this conversation, you're going to have both probably close to two thousand branches route, what I'm saying? Interpretation how you
interpreted? So that's a lot of memory. So this particular thought Tree of this conversation, may have up to 1,000 2,000 memories in it so when you bring this thought up into the conscious mind through the subconscious, it's not just going to bring up one thing. It brings up the concept which is in the name of the tree and then all the details still coming up. Okay. So how is this significant? That's a healthy tree. He has toxic tree. Also branches also the roots and so same process.
Let's say now that you get bullied at school or you have a terribly abusive childhood or whatever. There's all the Things that can happen to us, the adversity, that is going to be received by the mind. All these energetic fields and everything. And psychologically, the mind is how we think and feel and choose, you're asking what feeling is, if you think and feel and choose to build these thoughts.
And these thoughts are built of what the product of thinking, feeling, and choosing so emotions are actually memory data. Okay, emotional memory data. So emotions are Inside there and inside Thee. I think it was the source. This is what happened and this is the interpretation of what happened. So it totally makes you think of that scene inside out, where all the different memories are tagged with each emotion and then categorized and logged into the long-term memory.
But you still remember what each emotion was. It actually took their responsibilities to manager Yeti because you have subject, that's very good. It's a very good example. Because if you think of it, there's a multitude of experiences that we have it. You you have the same memory tags like that will. You said, but these thousand things that can make you said the said is not in its own, its emotion attached to data, so that's why we have inside. This will be the emotion
attached to the. It's an emotional day at attached to the actual. What happened? That's the, what happened in this is how you process, what happened. So this is some kind of the coping. So let's say that this is an abuse and its role. It repeated, sexual abuse, for example, from maybe a family friend or something like that, or a parent or whatever bad, you know, whatever that process.
Seeing of that that's going to be think field, choose, you're going to as you experiencing that you're going to be thinking feeling choosing, so all that is built into here. The experience and then you're thinking feeding choosing is the interpretation of that to and interpretation of here, there's going to be memory data is going to be all the things that happened and the interpretation here says. Oh I'm bad or worthless or must have done something wrong.
Meanwhile you totally innocent. So this and then gets distorted so that's distorted so that's distorted. And because that's counter to our natural wiring, which we actually wired for healthy people. Love that scientists talk about provide for these this is distorted so it's not going to tell me the truth. You're not going to see the truth about yourself and that all that then produces what you say and what you do.
So this will produce problems in relationships and if it's suppressed, it will produce an excessive levels of depression and anxiety and was doing, and I hate life and Suicidal Thoughts, etc, etc. This produces that because this is it. Toxic and so, so to summarize, that's the thought it's a product made of proteins and that's the neuroplasticity change. We use our mind to experience. And you take that experience, me, put it into the brain and abilities or mind is how we
think and feel and choose. So, as you think feel and choose, we build are thinking, feeling and choosing into these trees, the squad is the source and this part is our interpretation. So of thinking, feeling and choosing in this case is distorted because those Sex or distorted the whole toxic. It may see where is this would be more accurate. These would be healthy healthy interpretation versus K. So that's the thought made of the memories and the emotions are inside of yet.
Attached to the data, the specifics of this memory. So these would be all distorted emotions anger, frustration hatred self, hatred fear. This, I mean, it's thousands and thousands of emotions and they would be attached to the data of what happened and interpretation inside of it. But then they A sense. Yeah, so in practice if you're experiencing a distortion whether it's a thought that's not necessarily accurate that you're not good enough.
Not loved all of these things. How exactly would you shift that? Because again it is a distortion it's not accurate and it's impacting this whole process. What are you doing there to rewire that? Okay so excellent question. So here is the cause it's in your brain can handle it now and maybe taking repeatedly and you don't always know the roots. This is very often because we suppress it sometimes. Just about those.
Another one of my questions is like, I would wake up and feel depressed, but being able to identify, why was so difficult day we go. So it's very often because you had accumulated too much overtime and because it's so strong that when your child and you trust your character and your trust adults or whatever in your life that or whatever. However, there's so many different ways we can experience trauma but your child you to do trusting it so distorted.
So it doesn't, there's no sense to it. So you just try and cope. So this whole this part over here is trying to make sense of this. And then this becomes distorted. So the whole thing's distorted to very often it's suppressed and it comes out in early early childhood trauma very often when he comes out in adolescence and over the years it build. So it can start off with a child, be more withdrawn and certain behavioral symptoms.
And then, you know, then very often kids are very good at masking for a period of time, but they're not adolescence and 18, 19, 20 BC. The more severe the complex, the trauma and the more to being suppressed by between. 24. It's like you can't do brain. Just can't keep it in anymore. It explodes and that you miss major depression, major anxiety
in a severe way. It's still not an illness and we need to talk about that but it's become so severe that debilitating and if you just treat that as though it's an illness, a symptom of an illness you never going to find the root cause. So you need that, you do not going to really manage it. It's going to give you energy you and in the drugs numb your brain and Anissa times your brains, you still not dealing with it so that doesn't help.
So these produce the behavior. So what we want to do is to do to fix this, is we have to look at the patterns in our life and I referred to this earlier on. So the most obvious pattern is those very strong emotions. Like, depression, and anxiety. Now, what is depression and anxiety, we told in today's narrative that there are illnesses, but they're not illnesses, there's no research to confirm that. There's no neurobiological correlates or getting in the
brain. It chemical imbalances, a theory that has been disproved Four times, no, scientist and top people in Harvard Kings all over the world. In top, universities will tell you that that is not an acceptable view. But yet that's what the monthly the public are given and most doctors will tell their patients. So you have a chemical imbalance, you like let's fix it with their medication. Fix your broken arm, you haven't broken frame, it's fix your brain. That's the wrong messaging and
it's also the research shows. It's actually make things worse, as I mentioned, so, well in the beginning. So what you got to do is recognize that you can't actually Have depression you experienced oppression and because depression is not an illness, it is actually an emotional warning signal, okay? So you need to act for don't become like a thought to tector where you looking for Clues.
So, you're a thought, detective, you're an archaeologist, you become a brain surgeon and your engine whirring. You try to put all the pieces of your life together, so you're kind of drawing on all those skills and we are capable of doing that. So we cut we we stay. To what I call the wise mind and we've all got that because we see that in our psycho neurobiology, which is a mind-body connection at the actually wired for love, which means you don't have any structures for toxicity forbus.
So soon as we have the brain, the immune system rejects. He's like a reject, covid, virus, or any virus. So these give these stimulate an immune response. Like I saw my research will get a high homocysteine levels which shows inflammation, which shows that there's an immune response you've got T cells out there working and The longer, you keep the suppress the issue, the more T cells. For example, you'll have in place in the more side you'll
get cytokines storms. And so, all the things that you hear with the language of covert, you get the same kind of thing happening with your thoughts, because there is real esker, but they made of proteins that in your brain. So, they create a mess. But not only are they in your brain? Is these protein true things? These thoughts of memories, they also in every cell of your body. So as you experience something, and now we're going to be going
to get to the heart. As you as you experience, that toxicity in bolted into brain immediately, it is built into every cell of your body. And that's how we have body made me so medic memory. That's why things like EMDR work and ryoga. And when we tune into our body, because it's in the brain, and it's in the body in every cell. So as you are loot, hearing this podcast. Now, talking, you are actually putting this information into every cell of your body in addition to your brain.
So it's building here and these are genetic change in every city. The 37 to 100 trillion cells that we have in our brain and our body or also storing this as a change in your Gene code and its interpretation of fields that are all around and through you. So you think of luck with you? Look at the you think, also, you know, it's got little lines that go that's sort of the nice analogy to think of what the thought looks like in the brain and the mind. Sorry.
So in the brain, it's a tree in the body, it's a change in your DNA. And in the, in the mind, it's those little white Fields, even they're healthy. So what it's going to be better, the brain, good positive change in your Gene, code, in every cell and it's going to be a healthy flow in the little gravitational fields, electromagnetic fields, the mind.
But if it's toxic, it's the opposite sensitivity rice floats and Krazy K. So that energy is hitting the brain and the body and everything right down to the level of community is being affected. So for example, you're telling me as I don't know, if you know what telomeres on enemy is or if you think of the DNA, the DNA strand and you can pull Turns out of the in a chromosome looks like an X and my fingernails would be the would be the
telomeres. So chromosome looks like an X and the ends of chromosomes have things called telomeres. Now, those telomeres are working with are basically a proxy for how you are managing your mind. And so, if you did nothing happens with your telomeres, we've been you alive, your telomeres are involved in, making it about a million new cells. If we second mean, over time, basically replacing our entire brain and body over time.
So if the A healthy and long and strong, you build healthy cells, which means healthy organs, which means a healthy system. But if you are amazed and not managing and suppress thoughts and not detoxing those telomeres get very weak and that themes create cells, that are unhealthy and therefore, overtime, cumulatively, your body becomes weak and vulnerable to disease.
So, you have, you have suppressed thoughts, doing that at the DNA level and you have these things in your brain and your brain getting damaged and your immune system going. Crazy. And you know, all these things are accumulating. You've got this toxic energy moving from your mind through your body, that doesn't bode well and that's if you think of it like that that's very consuming. It's like that mind that mind is driving the whole process. Then is 99-92 99% of who you
are. So when I say you con have depression, I'm not belittling. I'm making a making it as well as I'm giving it the attention. It deserves because that depression is AB your mind. Brain and body screaming at you to say, hey, wake up. Listen, tuned in you aren't depression, you're depressed because of. So in other words, there's a message in the depression that depression is your Norm Bell. Going off saying, embrace it, embrace it and look deep inside, okay?
And then I'm going to explain how so don't see depression or anxiety or any emotion as an illness know emotions are illnesses, passion and depression or We as important, they're both telling you something.
The passion is telling you that you're on a track to some wonderful feeling and relationship, whatever the depression is saying that, hey, you've got something missing you up in you to pay attention and because of neuroplasticity you can change where that's coming from because that depression is
coming from one of these. So this thing is sending signals from the no unconscious Mind through the subconscious, which is a bridge between an unconscious into the conscious mind and as soon as it hits the conscious mind and you pay attention to it, Okay, I'm feeling very depressed and then you're going to soon as you do that.
This thing starts coming up from the unconscious to the conscious and we see from Neuroscience that, when you become aware of these, they start shaking and becoming malleable. And when they become available you can change them. Okay. So here's how it works and I've got an app called the neuro cycle. Can you, recycle, we are literally give you syrupy
teaching you how to do this. I'm going to give you the brief overview and then I've got I don't know which book you've read, but this is my most recent book. We are also explained everything talking about it depth. Super easy to follow the second half. Is that is the neuro cycle neuro something, which is the system of developed over 38 years of research and clinical application, and patience and whatever. And I use it myself, this is not just to give you.
This is for everyone. If you want to go to my, not just if you in extreme depression, this is to manage day-to-day stuff, too. So, it's the big stuff and the small stuff, the second half that books, got this, exact, how to? And then I also have a podcast, cooking your meat from this, which I definitely want to invite you on to, where I explain all of these things as well. You know subjects. Okay. So what do you want to do?
What I've shown from the research is that you are able with your mind to get from your messy mind into a wise mind. And the easiest way is to tell my patients get to cheese. Put them next to each other and sucking both Chase but obviously considering both but you in what have used to Maci mind?
What have you see wise mind? The wise mind is working with the miss you, Mike. Now we get so caught up in a mess if you don't listen to her wisdom and the way the world works and all the social media, Very often Identity or wisdom, or in a call this wired for love nature, it's short. And that's we suicidal ideation society. And comes in when you feel hopeless, when you feel about valued, when you just, why is this happening to me?
Makes no sense frightening and unfortunately jeans here, which you part of is the most medicator generation and the generation that is primed to Die. The youngest of in years in decades, which is terrible. So the child, if they don't change, The situation then Z is going to die younger than you're going to die way younger than your grandparents. Even, you know, you're not going to release it that predict sort of life span is maybe 60 65 when
you should lose their yeah. Like, 25 years off but me, the kind of thing that you doing that I'm doing having these discussions podcast. This is making people more aware because it doesn't have to be. And the reason people are dying younger, is because of what I was saying earlier, these things mess up your health of your body. Those telomere things, if your body is getting progressively weaker, then you're going to get Sicker and your chance of dying
younger exist. So we had subjects and the good news is enough. And I've put these in here of certain of my subjects in my clinical trial, and in my patients of the years, they buy it. They were so depressed at the biology was like, a sickly 60 65 year old, and they were only 30 now, you can imagine. If you, you 18, if your body was three years, older, let's say that you had a 50-50 or old sick body, you wouldn't be feeling very great and you will, you've kind of lost 30, 35 years or 25
years. So if you don't care, Initial within nine weeks of mine management using the neuro cycle and a neck. I didn't give them therapy. They did it themselves on that. They didn't go to a therapist. This isn't how we have in us that you go to therapy. I'm not anti therapy, it's fantastic. But it's vitally important that, you know, how to manage your own mind. You don't just have to wait for
the expert to tell you. That's why I have done this work with the books, you know, got the app so that you can do this stuff. So, and what is the stack to do? It's the neuropsych, and what is the neuropsychological? Well, it's five step system that you do daily for around 15 minutes to 45 Max, where you take that pattern, whatever it is. And you are going to do. You're going to basically Rican, deconstructed, reconstructed.
So you're going to find this thing, you're going to put it up and you're going to fold it into. This doesn't mean that the toxic issue goes away, but it just means and how I'm going to use this little Stone. That's the issue. It's now been we conceptualized into the. So it's now you now know what happened to you but you've changed how to playing out in The first thing to do is to look at what is the pattern in your
life. So what is the dominant pattern in your life like you consumed with depression? You find it like it's just dominating everything. Or are you constantly anxious or are you to talk with emotion? What are the emotional? Warning signals depression, anxiety, frustration irritation. And it's normally a bunch of them but just maybe start with you know, like what is the, what is the main sort of emotional scene from that try and see if you can label. What is my pet?
I packing is that. I'm so depressed that I'm betting at the school were combating, to be motivated and then I'm just not happy. So, that's the name of the tree, okay? So let's say that you just like, like, you just feel sad all the time, that's the name of the tree. So to get to this tree, we have to go back to those signals. So, the pattern is the constant sadness. That's the name of the tree because that's, that's sadness that pattern isn't just randomly
happening. Everything you say and do is coming from one of these, but you can't see it straight away from. You've got to dig through some layers, to get to this thing and then you go to The Vedic down. So you look at your pattern from your pack, and you look at your phone signals before. Signals are the emotions as I keep saying, depression, anxiety. Whatever, being your behaviors. So what are you doing? Maybe more Angry more irritable most or more. What are you doing? What are you?
What do you? What is your communication? What is so, be quite specific. Then the third thing is, what's going on in your body? What are you feeling maybe getting these GI symptoms or maybe you're getting My papa tations or maybe getting your skin rashes or whatever. What are you noticing? That's different in your physical symptoms. Are you feeling is gut-wrenching, adrenaline shooting through you, whatever?
So look at your body and then you look at your perspective which is your attitude to are you looking at that, what your view of life is it? This view that life sucks. I hate life. I can't do this. It's just too much. No one understands. It would either. So those are the four signals. So from the overarching pattern, you dive into the for signals. And then from the four signals, which are coming out of here and all of this, by the way you do with your two chairs, you
digging your wise. Mind, the wise Mind Is Telling You, hey Sadie, you're amazing. You wired for love, is something you can do that. No one else can do. This is not who you are this depression. This is because of we looking for the macaws of this is a symptom of you being stalked, detective historian, brain surgeon, all the rest of it. So we better look at it. Did use a lot of kindness with me do this.
Go to be very kind to us. All Cough and then whole podcast on what kindness does in the brain. I mean, it literally makes the two sides of the brain work together, increases oxygen, and blood flow to the front of the brain, and that a thousand other things. But if you, if you hard on yourself that in a Critic and then boys, going, I'm terrible. I'm used to some a waste of time, I can't do this and I'll never get this right?
That is going to reduce oxygen and blood flow to the front of the brain and created are out of Harmony it. Coherence between the two sides of the brain goes, and don't want it. Well, High levels of the high beta who could tsunamis in your brain of energy very hard to think. Clearly when that happens. So this system of the neuro cycle. You prepare first. So that you prepare? And that's why I said, get to two chairs.
Be very kind to yourself. Tell yourself things like this is not who I am. This is who I've become. I'm showing up like this because of how are you showing up that pattern thing? What are the signals? All the time. Couch, didn't wise mind pouring live on too messy mind and you Keep telling us up, it's okay to be a Miss, everyone's amazed, if you want to mess too, and we keep making messes and then niece's are great because that's
how we can repair growth. So when you work with I'll miss you mind, we can repair in groans. Okay. So then from there, you start at other people, racial things you can do. When you sit down to do an actual session and on your own, either on your own using the book or using the app, you want to do a little bit more brain preparation, she set the single the kindness and chairs and finding the pattern and seeing
those. For signals, then you want to do, maybe some rain preparation because we you stop looking at the stuff that can make you feel a little anxious. It can increase your levels of anxiety, and that's where things like deep breathing, and meditation. And havening, which is basically using stimulation to simulate the amygdala to calm down. I mean, there's so many different things in the FI have a three-minute break prep that
you always do every day. Before you dive into the hard work and that just calms down first of all your electrophysiology. So the in it the electronic the energy part of you then again Within the chemistry because I came on your temples, can go crazy or too much cortisol, too much. You won't have enough serotonin. You won't have enough dopamine, you'll get shots. You won't get enough. An endermite. There's all these different chemicals.
That seems a whole signals for your hormone system. Your telomeres everything is affected. So you want to prepare your brain, okay? And then you dive into the five steps of the new cycle, which is essentially a systematic way you work through all five systematically or five steps and that, that each step is making
your brain. More accurately than Europe plastic Direction. So, in other words, you driving the neuroplasticity in the black direction, that means you're breaking these down and you boldly replacement thoughts. So, that's kind of the, the system.
You do have a 63 days and the reason I want to say why you do this, the reason you do it over 63 days and Cycles, or you may have to do multiple is because a lot of people think habits are made in 21 days and, you know, they think you have a habit, then you'll have a new Behavior. There aren't If you have major changes, every moment and you'll have periods like four days as a major time period 7 and 14, 21 is enough time to basically stop
finding going from the pattern to the signals to what harm I see myself down to start seeing the roots. Oh yeah you don't solve it in one day. You do a little bit each day so today I may just find I'm depressed and see my hate. My I hate myself, I hate life. And I'm withdrawing and it's because of something that's maybe even your first five steps tomorrow. Ed more Each day you get more and more layers, but 21 days. This thing would have been ugly, endured and energy is never lost
in the brain and the body. You would have built this. And this says, okay, I used to be depressed all the time. I thought I was depression. I'm not depression. I'm depressed because of that stuff, and that's making me very sad, but that's not how I want to be. This is how I want to be, but it's small. So and this thing is much bigger. So this thing's got to compete with all the, you still haven't forgotten what's happened. So and you've also got all other
things. Things inside of you, if you trigger it, this is not strong enough to move into a conscious mind. It's not a habitat. You've got to grow this thing. So what are still practice? The five steps, which are driving the mind with little actions and everything, it's a whole process writing. It's very systematized. You by day 21. It's going to look. I'm sorry about it when you
want. It looks like this my day, 42, can you see it's growing and I'm 63, you've got this, and so takes around about 9 weeks of New behavior that you want in your life to grow to the point where when you triggered, you remember. Oh, I used to think you were to that. Yeah. It's now going to change into this. You remember how you were, but your change what's in you, which then changes how you communicate.
And so as, you know, having gone through depression yourself and, and living living with it. That depression is a signal. And once you sort of diving into it, you started seeing other emotions and there is and body symptoms and perspective and as you saw it, Finding the cause it's only when you find the course and you ever tried to reconceptualize that will you start getting free and even then you still going to have depression because depression is not enough have depression.
You still going to expensive your? Yeah and that's normal. There's nothing wrong with that. You mustn't be scared of depression. We have think of depression, on a scale of 1 to 10. What is that? I feel a little bit depressed because someone put a really bad posts on my, on my social media or someone says something ugly comment about a podcast that you let you get would put out. You put yourself up in it can throw, you know and that would be maybe a one or two or three
in terms of depression. You get yourself through it and then you can use in your cycle. It's when things accumulate and we don't deal with stuff and we just keep digging up, pushing it on that it grows and then it becomes fixed soon as it starts hitting 5 and above. It's now moving into an extreme response and being put on mine is 90 to 99 percent of who we are, it's very consuming. So the big thing here is that it's not that depression is an illness.
As I keep saying, Saying it's not a brain disease, it's not something else in your brain jumping out and being triggered and like a disease in Waiting. You don't like you get a maid in Waiting in those. Oh no it's not like that. At all. The brain will respond in your body will get sick and let stuff because there's an impact, our of busy mind on your, on your brain and your body. Yeah. Need to basically support for that. And I'm not talkin
psychotropics. I'm talking, you know, proper treatment or if you've got heart issues and so on from that. But the big thing is that the course not in your brain, the causes Your lash is something that's happened to you, you experienced up these adverse circumstances, and those are what's caused you to feel like the so you need to find those disconnect from them and we conceptualize them. And being you can move forward into a healthier pattern of
functioning. And then the next thing comes up and then the next and the rest of your life. Listen, I'm 58, I'm still doing this, you know, you've built the tool box to be able to navigate these things. It's easier to up and the beliefs that you haven't built up over years, but it's just Able to maintain your mental health. Exactly. And this is something I've been teaching.
My youngest patient has his was three my ID number for adult, children had grown up with us. Yeah, I the schools that I work till we put this in to teach train into the school system. So, kids from Young, should be taught how to manage the emotions and understand you can show kids to reside guy would have been using simple language was three-year-old and a child in a tortilla. Or the whole thing is as adults.
We need to allow children and adolescents and teenagers Express themselves, you need to To stand by your mom comes home. And like, if I come home, and I'm really worked up quite a hard day and I'm like with Dawn and snappy and irritable, I need to be able to model to my kids. Okay, this is how I'm feeling.
It's okay to feel this house. I feel like this because of side goes through the whole five step process, expanding giving and modeling how I'm managing a feel like this because of this is what I'm going to do. But if you just come home, irritable and screaming at your kids, so you come home and you scream at your mom or whatever and you just mad at we friend They don't understand what's going on, but if you model like a few numbers because of this, I just need some space.
I'm going to get it under control but I just need to get this up and deal with it better. We should be doing, we should be teaching kids from young but one in 12 kids are being missed in an indoor growing into adolescents and adults, and young adulthood with all the stuff inside, and that leads to what you went through, you know, that kind of thing versus, you know, we, I mean, after adults in the house here, we've got to be thoughtful to. We should have been teaching
this. I've been trying to fight the system for 38 years so there's nothing people like you wanted. You want to unpack any of that stuff.
No, it's so true and it's so profound and every single time you bring up these different things, I can connect it to my treatment journey and what I did without realizing I was going through those steps, like I recall, not even realizing I was depressed because I was so, like, avoiding what I was feeling and thinking until I was literally in the hospital and then everything blew up because I was so severely, depressed.
And then I was trying all of these He's different treatments, whether it was outpatient or inpatient and nothing was changing because I wasn't identifying, the roux and it was only after I was in intensive treatment and had taken a step back from my home life that I identified that. I was like, I very genuinely believe. I don't deserve love and every single, it's the interaction I'm going through. Yeah, so every single
interaction I'm going through. I'm looking at the world to support the belief that I don't deserve love and that I'll never be good enough for my parents or those interactions became deeply traumatic. Because I felt and validated and Connected and so I became suicidal, he's severely depressed, but it was only after I unpacked that and learn to do self love and self compassion and realize that I don't need any external cues to be deserving of love and care and
great relationships. That I was then able to shift my mood and emotions and thoughts and think still come up there. Still believes that you have to upend and rewire but I've done that before and I know how to do it. And I know how to navigate that so it's just it's so true and so profound and Universal too. Anyone who is struggling?
It's to humans. If you really are looking today, as I sit with you, you may be in a 125 most of your life, but then parts of your life, using the eight nine, ten experience of the of of experience and then it becomes an extreme response. We don't need a disease label to validate that we just need to as humans. We just need to be constantly validating the fact that you have a story and you showing up like X because of which is what you're describing.
So, those moved emotions sorting, you see that? So, these thoughts emotions are inside of that, And these foods with the emotions in the data, how we see ourselves interpretation data, all that the information. In other words, this is filled with information and emotion, data, and that information. And emotion date has come from, how we think feel and choose both the thoughts and the thoughts introduce would be saying what we do.
So we can go to look at what we saying, what we're doing and what we feeling and feeling in our body which are those four signals in order to realize, okay, with whatever I'm saying and do we need to say this? Just like you said, I'm feeling depressed. Yes, I'm feeling like I don't want to live a suicidal because of versus, that's my identity. I am the person to person who says, I've got a brain disease.
So you throw that when you say I'm depressed and suicidal because of that's not who I am because of and then you have got the process of tuning in to those signals and doing all that you know about are tuning in the purple rain. In the five steps, which are basically the five steps are gathering reflecting two steps in writing to brew specific testing steps and then and Action now things like DBT and
CBT, all the different techniques and things. 42 step 5, if you knew DBT and CBT, in the wrong order, your brain won't rewire you don't do it long enough. Your brain won't be wire and I do DBT like six or seven times until it actually worked. It's true. Every time you have to do, then that's what happens. So much in therapy, say this. I'm so glad you brought that up, because so many people that I interview and that I had coming to my practice and that still send me emails, which is
thousand. They say that I've been to therapy and it's going on for years and years. Here's my patients, would stay in therapy for cycles of 63 days and sometimes maybe would re-evaluate or two every 63 days. Do we need another cycle? What's the problem is, because you every six, every 63 days,
you moving forward. So I had some patients that were so severely traumatized, and it manifested as learning disabilities, and, and almost like traumatic, brain injury type symptoms and it took sometimes up to two years, but it was in cycles of 63 days. Because what often happens in therapy is that people don't go through the proper. I've staked system if you don't, if you don't gather objectively
you don't reflect. If you don't systematic together, reflect do the two levels of writing one, which is like a vomiting on the paper where you just throw your thoughts out, the other ones organizing and then ended with an action and do that little bit by little. But all you're going to do is from B yourself. Your mind, your body and it's just becomes like overwhelming. And then therapy becomes a venting station as opposed to improve Grace station because no one knows.
As you accept yourself. So all the therapists were a counselor or coach repaired with support from can do is love one can do is to support us through their journey and give us some perspective. And maybe if you go to someone you say I'm seeing it, like this, is there another way to see it. That's what a good therapist
twice a year. Maybe look at it like that and that is this way to see it. What you are saying is the way you see things this coming from this part of the tree and that's producing those behaviors to be. You start the system correctly
the neuro cycle. Which you did without even realizing you basically are seeing you interpretation of yourself and we just had come from because every one of these comes from Bay and to be distorted processing and until you've gone from there through there today, which is what the five steps do they take you through that, you're going to get frustrated. So what happened? I know my belief system was there's no reason why I'm depressed. Therefore I might just be
innately depressed. I understand that other people can work through that and are not depressed, but that's not possible for me. Because a This is all I've ever known and be, there's no reason there was no giant trauma that I experienced. I just was suddenly this super depressed teenager. And so, of course, there was no progress that was being made because I didn't, I didn't believe that there was a cause I thought I was just innately deserving, assert being depressed forever.
And that was the messaging that Eugene's he's, grown up jeans. Yeah. And I used to lecture to schools and to adolescents, and teenagers and University except on for years, 20 years ago, Peep Peep Would understand it was a cause now people will the first thing about talk to a group of people because there's these micro traumas, you can identify that X or Y happened. Thank you over time, there was chronic and validation or misunderstanding.
You don't identify that. These are leading to what you're feeling because they're accumulating social network of over time, which is saying the telomeres. But the many, many tumors are causing many traumas in your telomeres, to causing many traumas in your body, which over time, the many tall. Emma's in your mind crash in your body and in the whole of crash together.
Yeah. Exploding like a volcano and you know that your age group jeans, even or even the Millennials will and if I licked it to the now the immediate things own its innate. It's biological. I've got a chemical imbalance. What drug must? I take and therapy seen as well. Kind of like a fancy side. You know, Sideshow kind of thing. It's only for your really weak people. Meanwhile, ten years ago if I spoke about these If people with emotional issues, they're eating meat, it worked, you know,
issues, mind issues. People would immediately said, oh, what's the cause? So we've shifted in the last 40 years, from looking at causes to, in the environment to looking at brain diseases. It's a disaster and it's terrible because you're putting the blame on the person. You're like, what have you done wrong to be feeling this way. I'm so glad you see that sink. As I said, I was riding up scientific paper this morning and I was just cooking with my
research team. Just before that we do clinical trials, within one of the things that I wrote in the introduction was you've got to stop saying to the patient, what is wrong with you? It's her has happened to you. Yes, you know, and that can be a socio-economic environment. You are you, are you in chronic and living in chronic racism and fear of getting in your car? Because someone might shoot you
learn that a traveler. Who are you in constantly bullied at school or you think on and you talk about the micro tools. They people think they aren't relevant but if you bully her and your booty being is a big family and your parents love you, do they face but you may feel like no one is more. A personality that more is more demanding and so you quieter you don't get enough attention.
Those are many tumors that your parents didn't intend but that can build and create accumulate over time for all of us has to be paid attention to. So, we've got 100 people. Think God is something wrong with me when I'm fucked, depression. Absolutely. Not grab the depression and find the story. Find the hose off and but do it systematically. Because of the one thing I do want to mention is that we can get in. If therapy you mentioned, you
the DPT. If you're Times and people will you CBT techniques over and over again order to end the or four years? They all good, but if you don't use them after you've actually gone through the first four status of the neuro cycle, which is gather with the whole thing of finding, what the root is, those techniques used on their own, or just an action. So, here's the problem.
So you putting a Band-Aid on a bandaid on it and every single one of those things is brilliant, but until you've actually, they're only work when you've actually worked at. What is my pack? What am I What am I thinking about myself? What did I process? What happened? And as you do that, then you can start the action helps to take this and reconstructed into this. And then next, I had patients who come to me that had been in 54 years and that had they done
so to something like this. But this is, this was not completely formal. This is only the size. This is easier to see visually small, but this is not so happening. So I know that's what I can be. I know I I am, you know, all the things you were saying, I am worthy of love. I am whatever, whatever, all those things. But you still thinking, but I'm still acting as though, I don't think I'm Ruthie.
There's like a Chasm between the truth that, you know, is the truth which can get thee and that's because it isn't home. Neural rewiring takes cycles of 63 days. Not 21. It takes up to nine weeks and maybe multiple cycles of nine weeks. A lot of therapy goes around and around and around the first few days. Yeah. Kind of. And weeks of the, it doesn't get Beyond. And that's the sort of progress
forward that makes a 100%. And I when you were talking about putting a bandaid on these feelings, emotions, behaviors, whatever they are. It makes me think so much of peers that I interacted with and met during my time in treatment, because I think especially in Adolescent Treatment your so often going through the actions because you're not the one that's deciding to go into treatment or therapy, you're
not. The one that is admitting that you need support or help, oftentimes, that autonomy is taken away. Way. So the motivation to truly understand what the cause is and explore and want to get better. It's missing. So you're going through the actions, you're doing the behaviors, you're making these shifts but they're not long-lasting. Soon as you leave treatment and aren't continually motivated to change and improve because you didn't have that Foundation, it's just lost.
And I think that's what happened for me the first couple times of DBT because the huge difference that I looked back on and identified when I did intensive treatment was, I was sitting in this room during my intake. It meant and they're like, why
do you want to be here? And I was like, my parents that I had to. I'm not allowed to be at home and they're like, well, that sucks because you can't be here unless you want to be here and you believe this will work, and it was only after I trusted them enough to help me. I let them help me. I believe that there was wisdom in DBT and I had enough self-compassion to want to get
better. That all these shifts took place and I was able to unpack what had happened and what led to me, feeling depressed and then shift the behaviors and emotions and thoughts. It's so we can reconsider. You dear factored and me, but you had to, but they were saying choose what your pattern and they didn't say these words, but essentially it was what the pattern, what are the signals tune into the why and do the deconstruction me and that takes
time, it takes daily work. That's why did I ever? Because you will go for therapy but not, everyone can go to treatments. Not everyone can afford to be so time-consuming as well, me, it's expensive, it's not always viable. So it's very few. People will go to that but this movie is the whole Expecting with in mind. So that's why we've got to have a daily mind management strategy because you don't mind. Never stops. Did the doesn't even stop when
you sleeping. Yeah, your mind is always going in your mind. Your current mind is influenced. The current moment is influenced by what you think, what's happening the past. So these things just, you know, getting your face and you look at last you this. So, anything that's in your face, that's your pattern. Whatever is like how you looking if it's toxic and it's activated. Submit disturbing your piece, that's where you would start and that's why I developed this.
That's how we know out of the therapy world after 25 years and took all the knowledge and created this effort and initially was in books and online. Now, we put it in at full which is great because you can literally press play and you can listen 15 minutes and work through the five steps and worried about, you know, the whole pepper ation, five stick, whatever, and you've got a system and in everything you've learned in therapy with everything, you've read about all the books with it.
You can still do all of those. But yeah, you put them in the right place that you can Hunter me and which is so amazing. So, Well, that's these so amazing. We so profound and University the universally applicable. And I know this will help so many people. So thank you, thank you. Thank you. It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me on. If you enjoyed this week's episode, make sure that you send it to a friend or family member who you think would get some
value from this interview. If you post about, she persisted, be sure to tag me on Instagram, so I can go ahead and repost, you give you a little shout out, and make sure that you're subscribed and of left to review. So you don't miss any future episodes. If she persisted, thanks for listening and I'll see you next Monday.