Welcome to, she persisted, I'm your host CD son. Every Friday. I post interviews about mental health, dialectical behavioral therapy and Teenage life. These episodes break down my mental health Journey. Teach skills to help you cope with life and showcase testimonials from individuals, including teens, just like you. Whether you've struggled yourself or just want to improve your mental Fitness. This podcast is your inspiration
to live a life. You love and keep persisting this week on she persisted People don't always want answers or problem solve, they want someone to listen at the eyes and validate and I think we all can do that qualified or not. I not only asked for help and I accepted that I need help. But I trust you to other people. Enough to help me this week's DBT skills, radical acceptance to start this many skills education we have to talk about pain.
Pain is our body's natural way to tell us that something is wrong whether that's emotionally or physically. Will pain is inevitable for everyone. Suffering is not and suffering comes as a result of remaining miserable and not accepting our current reality.
This is where radical acceptance comes in, this means that you're 100% with every ounce of your being accepting your life, your reality, your emotions as they come, this is one of the hardest DBT, skills out there to accept things that you dislike you disagree with, and you fundamentally wish were different is a very difficult thing to do, and it has profound
results. Really accepting that your current reality In This Moment is feeling depressed or anxious or stressed or overwhelmed allows you to stop being in that headspace of denial. That that's not what's actually going on and instead making measurable changes to improve your head space. So this week, when you're faced with something less than desirable, I challenge you to accept that you're in this situation, say to yourself. This is my reality. I don't agree with it.
I don't think it's okay. But this is what my reality is and I can't change it. Sit with those emotions, sit with the discomfort that arises and allow that suffering to slowly start to decrease. Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of she persisted. I'm so excited for you to listen to this week's episode. I'm changing some things up here in the she persisted world and really updating and improving my show layout.
So I have a couple new features to these she persisted show I had did a little bit different of an intro this week. Really going to be sticking to the audio B that you get. Here at the beginning of the episode, you got a tidbit of DBT education, right at the beginning that you can implement this week. And at the end of this intro, I'm going to do some rapid fire Q&A questions from listeners. This week is actually my spring break last week.
We were out of town, but this week I'm off from school. And so, I have just been diving into work and the podcast. I listened into the most amazing Clubhouse, this week, all about podcasting, and improving the quality of your show, and really, just putting out, amazing high-quality content.
Aunt. I had a really amazing coaching call with a fellow podcaster and I am excited to make some changes in that room as well to continue to improve the quality of the show and I've been doing tons of calls and interviews with upcoming, gas potential upcoming guests, just all things to really bring you guys the best content that I possibly can. And you can get the most out of
these podcast episodes. So, jumping into these qas because for this first week, I want to go into a little bit more detail and really give these Amazing question, some attention. So if you want to have your question answered in next week's episode, you can either anonymously submitted on my website. You can shoot me an email at inquiries it she persisted podcast.com or you can DM me on Instagram question 1. How did you survive high school while navigating depression and
anxiety at the same time? The short answer was that for a point in time I did not navigate High School. I did not do the second semester of freshman year because I was on a medical leave while I was getting intensive treatment. And that was something that I never thought that my mental health would get to. I don't think my family saw that my teachers didn't see that, but when you're really, really struggling and your mental health is consuming your life continuing to be an active engaged.
Successful student. At some point isn't possible. Without that, really strong mental Foundation, your ability to cope your ability to be persistent and have grit without
that. You're not able to put yourself into all these different activities that we as teams engage in. So, What I had to create that Foundation, from scratch for myself, learn the coping skills that allowed me to get through the day, rewire the belief systems that created so that I could be confident and happy and mentally healthy, create really strong relationships that uplifted, me and made me feel safe, and seen and heard and
valued. And after that, I was able to really recreate my life in a way where when I felt moments of depression, or anxiety or stress, whatever it was that came up. I could still Ate my life with school and work and the podcast. So, now when I'm having a down day, which I would say, is more common than me feeling anxiety. When I'm having an off day, I'm feeling super unmotivated and sluggish and feeling. Those feelings of depression, I really hold on to the mindset that it is in permanent.
I know that when I wake up the next day, it's going to be a fresh start and I'm not necessarily going to be feeling the same feelings. I do my best to do the opposite of what I'm doing, whether that's to get up and go outside
or do something. Do work be productive, sometimes that's not always possible when I'm not really feeling up to all those things I do. The next best thing rather than staying in bed and doing nothing, which is watching a TV show or consuming some kind of content that improves my mood. Try to make myself feel, happy trying to do something and distract myself from these other feelings that are really putting
a damper on the day. I might watch the office for a while, maybe I'll listen to a podcast, whatever it is that really does bring me joy. So that's my in the moment approach to feeling down. Down or depressed and really just emphasizing. That this is today, tomorrow is going to be different. I'm going to have a fresh start, even if I still feel somewhat depressed. It's not going to be the same amount of depressed and same
emotions as today. And then long-term I try and create really healthy routines that improve my mental health. So I try and prioritize my sleep. I try and get up at this similar times every day. I do my best to maintain my physical health. I do things that make me happy and make me feel productive and motivated and inspired and passionate. Not because all of those things, increase my mood.
So having a life that's filled with things that increase my mood on a regular basis and doing my best to cope with the impermanence of negative emotions when they do arise. Next question is, what's your thoughts on meditation? I really want to be good at meditation, like that is a goal. I have for myself, I want to be like a Buddha at some point, not actually. But I want to be able to like meditate in the morning and meditate at night, be super in
touch with my thoughts. I think that is a really amazing skill that So many people have and I'm not there yet. I have found sleep meditation to be very helpful listening to meditation or doing a guided meditation myself before bed. That is something really effective that I've been able to implement in a link my episode on sleep meditation down below.
I also really like to do a meditation sometimes in the morning to set the tone for the day and set my intentions, as long as I'm out of bed, I find that to be effective. Sometimes I'll fall back asleep though. So just making sure to switch up my environment if I'm doing a morning meditation. But I wish I was better at meditation. I wish I could Implement that more and it's a skill. I'm still working on. Next question. I got was how can you make sure
to practice DBT skills daily? This is a hard one. DBT is such a Content Field Therapy that it's almost like you're taking a class to learn all these different skills and remembering them is in itself, somewhat of a challenge. So one of the ways that I have found most effective to make sure I'm practicing my DBT skills is to Be reminded of the skills daily and one way to do this is with a diary card.
If you're into BT, you know, what a diary card is in your feeling about, basically tracks, your mood, and your urges, your behavior is all of that throughout the day, but you're also tracking your skills usage. So, once a day you're looking at a comprehensive list of all the DBT skills so you can reflect on what your unintentionally practicing as far as skills and you're also able to kind of remind yourself. Hey, I forgot about that skill, I'm going to use that tonight.
We're actually that would be a great thing to do in this conversation. Later, let me use that skill. So even if you're not using a diary card or that's not something you need in your life right now, just having like a sticky note or a printout of DBT scales, next to your bed somewhere where you can glance at it and be reminded I would say is my best tip for making sure. You're practicing skills daily. Next question is, what is your favorite aspect of your morning routine?
This is a hard one because I feel like I I know I'm not a morning person and I feel like my morning routine has lots of room for growth and It's not the most practical, because we're still in lockdown. I'm not going to school yet though. Next week, I've, this might be different, so it's not, it's more. Kind of like, I have a long morning and I have classes, and I'm not forced to get up and get ready to go.
Somewhere that being said, I have made one significant change in my morning routine this week, which I found to be really effective and it might be my new favorite part, which is that I get up the first time I wake up in the morning.
And so I have in the past struggled with weight, Up really early in the morning and not being able to go back to sleep, but after I've gotten my sleep more regulated, I'm someone that has more problem with pushing snooze over and over again, then waking up early and not being able to get enough sleep.
So when I wake up for that first time, which normally is like, just around 7 a.m., I will get up because I know that if I push news or I go back to sleep, I'm not able to wake up and be as alert and aware as I am at that initial time. So I ended up like snoozing until like 11:00 a.m. which is is so bad and the other mindset change that I've done about waking up that early this week is that. I'm telling myself that, I know it's going to be hard.
I know that getting up in the morning is going to be difficult and terrible. And if I practice it and continue to maintain this habit for a couple of weeks, it will get easier. And for whatever reason I've never approached getting up in the morning with that mindset if I was just like, I should be able to get up early, other people and get up early. Why is it so hard for me to do this and yet that validation piece of being like this? Going to be hard and it's going to get better.
Has been really, really effective for me in having a morning routine and being willing to get up. So I would say that's my favorite aspect of my morning routine is getting up that first time when my body tells me that I'm ready to get up and then having that time in the morning to kind of relax and it's quiet and nice out and it doesn't feel like I'm rushing to a first class or a meeting or whatever it is. So those are all the questions that I'm going to answer for this week.
If you have a question, you want me to answer next week? Be sure to DM it to me, email or submit on my way. Website. And I will answer it and I'll also answer some more of these on Instagram. So if you're not already following me at at she persisted podcast, if you asked a question that didn't get answered, I will be answering it on Instagram as this episode goes up. This week's episode is sponsored by teen counseling. I cannot tell you guys. How many DM's texts emails?
I get from teens parents, even friends asking, how can I find a therapist? How can I enroll in therapy? How can I find a therapist for my teen? How do I tell my parents? I want to go to therapy. That's why I'm English teen counseling teen counseling is an online Therapy Program with over 14,000 licensed therapist in their Network. They offer support on things like depression, anxiety, relationships, trauma, and more, and it's all targeted at teens. They offer, text talk and video
counseling. So no matter what level of support you're looking for, they got you, you're going to go to teen counseling.com, she persisted, you'll fill out a quick survey about what your goals are for therapy. Whether that's improving your mental health, during the pandemic, working on your relationship with your parents. Self-esteem, whatever it is. They'll match you with therapist that fits your needs. You'll enter your information
and your parents information. Your parents will get a super discreet email saying your child's interested in working with a licensed therapist at teen counseling.com. They had to the website learn a little bit more about the program and a preview to work with a therapist. And from there you can meet that therapist on a frequency that
works for you. This is a great way to dip your toe, into therapy world and get support when you need it without having to go into an office, meet with a therapist meet with The Stranger and go through all of that for the first time. So you can go to teen counseling.com, she persisted again. That's teen counseling.com says she persisted to get started today.
So, without further Ado, this week's guest is a curried Aronofsky. He's a 27 year old former College Dropout, turned medical student, and a mental health Advocate, you might recognize him from social media at at MD motivator, and for his inspirational Tick-Tock and Instagram posts. If you love what you hear in this episode, you can follow him on Instagram and Tick-Tock at at MD motivator check out his YouTube MD motivator.
And finally check out his company and mental health movement.com, that's mental health and the mtv.com. All of his links will be in today. Description. Be sure to tag them as well if you listen to the episode. Thank you so much for coming on the show and for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited for this, of
course. So can you tell me a little bit about yourself and your journey and what brought you to your work in mental health, advocacy, sure, I'll try to keep this really short and to the point, my name is Zachary Aronofsky. I'm originally from Canada. My now, live in Sydney, Australia. So my story, I guess I can start. When I was in high school. Straight-A, student entered College flopped, I failed out of college. Go to point 5 9 g p AI 9 FS on
my transcript. I remember calling my Dean and my Dean saying Zachary College isn't right for you. Not even like can I get reinstated? And I remember my parents had no idea at the time. So, I went down to the dinner table at day, shared it. My mom stormed away. My dad said, move out.
So it was a really like ultimate low my life from like a relationship standpoint from an identity standpoint of who I was in terms of I guess like this perfect student or a well-rounded person is like filled out a college, maybe younger brother, stop looking up to me. So then over the next Year I did was actually over the next 56 years. I did whatever I could essentially to prove people in my life wrong the wrong way.
I guess to approach getting motivated or doing the things you want to do. But obviously, it got me to the point where I was a year out from starting medical school as a client and I'm like, I kind of have a story here of being like a former College Dropout in my transcript. So on social media one day I just put up my transcripts, my .59 GPA, just put it out kind of shared my story and I was blown away, I'll never forget. This kid from Vermont random guy
from Vermont message me is one. One message you just expose vulnerable and real and just like you sharing. I was like, it's social media to be used for good. I was blown away because from my understanding of social media in the past is that it was these filtered photos and filtered stories in this highlight reel, right? So the fact that I could see this, I was okay.
Maybe there's something there. So over the next four months, every single night, I would host Instagram live with either a medical student resident, or doctor, from around the world. World and through that, I came to understand that there was this mentor to mentee Continuum of. I guess people want to exchange knowledge and people that I looked up and inspired to become Sadie.
They were much more willing to be vulnerable and share their obstacles and adversities and setbacks which the mentee like myself or people before me got really inspired by. So through that, I created a formula, not sure if you read it. So the formulas called vulnerability equals relatability equals empowerment. So, that formula that I use, when I spoke about the academics is What I use when I speak about mental health, but backwards for
a second. So that's that company reached out to me and they said, Zach, how you travel North America and speak about being a former College Dropout to inspire students. I was like, that's amazing. So I did that for about five months before, moving to Australia, when I moved to Australia that was January of 2020. So I started medical school here at the University of Sydney, like five minutes away from where I live right now and then covid happened.
I went through a six-year relationship breakup, which I didn't know at the time that that was I guess my source of happiness and Who I was medical school is challenging, I had ACL knee surgery so my outlet which was like sports and working out. I lost that and all these things and I was isolated I couldn't go
back home because it covid. So all these things came in on me till like a Breaking Point and that was like May or June of 2020 and I went I was like, okay I can't be the only one feeling this way. I was like crying myself to sleep wasn't getting sleep. I was binge eating. I wasn't being productive. I wasn't studying. I just wasn't myself and I was okay.
I have to do something about this so I Counseling Services here at the University of Sydney, which is free and threw that one of the things they we went over and we talked about was the fact that I am a huge over-thinker and I never told my thoughts but they said that journal your thoughts. So I was like, okay I bought a journal, not this one, this is a beside me and I voted out one night.
I'm like you know what, why not Journal my thoughts on social media like journaling my transcripts on Instagram. So I did that on Tick-Tock and then it just snowballed, I became best friends with a guy. I have never met a need of in the states. Is named Jake Goodman. Who we now co-founded a company called the mental health movement, which is a clothing line to start the conversation. We started a podcast, we have student scholarships for mental
health. We give back globally to nonprofits, monthly and been very fortunate to have connected with so many brilliant. Amazing people that inspire me and yeah, it just been really fast-paced last eight months. That's that's amazing. And it's so cool. How much of a transformation you were able to have and how many
people you are? But impact within covid, which was a huge mental health, low for so many people, so many people are struggling and looking for that reassurance, that what they were going through was, okay, and normal. And so I think that's just amazing. So really diving into this overthinking anxiety that I have seen so much of your content about that, that I felt would be so helpful to share with listeners.
So, can you kind of talk to me a little bit about your experience with anxiety, and then we can segue into your advice on that. Yeah. So I think my anxiety to overthinking it. Go hand-in-hand about thinking about always what's the worst case scenario and never actually getting anything tangible down on paper.
So I thought once I saw when I started like, I guess, writing my thoughts down and seeing it as this, I guess, worst-case scenario and recognizing, okay, it's not that bad and it was there. It was like, okay, this is 1 2 3. These are the only three thoughts that have but it goes around 100 times in my head. So not 300 thoughts. They're just great and then I can take tangible actions towards them once. I know the three things the worst-case scenario.
And then okay, that's the worst case I'll be. Okay, that's visible is super helpful to me with anxiety and I think more so about recognizing that when I started talking to people that I've never talked to my life about, I struggle with certain things, or just the word struggle, I never use that because it's week and I started saying I struggle, I started to recognize that I really wasn't alone like I'm social media.
I know there's social proof that I'm not alone, but like my real life, like my friends were Medical School, my friends back home. Opening up more to my family build, a deeper relationship with Them through that with my parents over the last year. So I think finding an outlet
that works for you. For me personally, it's journaling and having the confidence to know that there's some form of support system for you, whether its family friend, someone you trust, or professional support to have that outlet to go to to know you're not alone. So with your journaling getting specific, are you the kind of person who can just write down and like everything goes in the page? Do you like prompts do you like writing down? Like gratitude, what works for Yeah. Yeah.
Music music, I'm listening to music that I really like like I'm just like not connected to my phone actually. So I said a journal or notebook. I don't journal on my phone or my laptop because I'll get distracted. And I just my mind, will wander, not be present.
So I find what I'm doing that. I like to go out and nature if I'm able to like go to the beach or go or like a forest or hike and write it out there because they're just mental Clarity to allow myself to just think about him, but I guess I'm Very deliberate what I write. So I so if I said there was three things that all right, the worst case scenario for all three and then. All right. What are two steps I can take today?
What are two steps I can take for each of those things and just have find that getting the ball rolling and knowing them. The worst case scenario it stops a lot of what was nice you personally. Hmm. Yeah. No. I think that makes a lot of sense. What is your advice for supporting someone? That is going through anxiety. I think, starting conversations about mental health and going through my Own Journey.
That was something my parents and I struggled with my peers my teachers, they were like, okay, like we see you're struggling. We see something's going on here, but a lot of us are familiar with how to support someone that struggling with that if we haven't experienced our self. And so, I was wondering what your tips were for supporting a friend. Family member someone in your community, that is actively struggling with anxiety. Yeah, I think anxiety or just mental health, or pretty much
anything. A lot of times I was talking to one of my friends. People don't always want answers or problem solve. They want someone to listen after eyes and validate and I think we all can do that qualified or not. So I think that's a really important feature is not like for me personally, I'm all about. Okay, it's the problem. Here's the quick fix I already told you. Like that's kind of how I do my we're thinking, but sometimes sitting with the problem and recognizing there is no quick
fix, there's Beauty in that. So I think if you're listening to you, if you want to connect further asking questions, It's using diffusers that helps me a lot as well. So what I mean diffusers like playing sports, so if I'm playing basketball shooting Hoops, my friends are much more open to this fluid conversation to speak about things that are more real to me as opposed to say. Okay 6:30 p.m. today, we're meeting at the dinner table such a delight. It's funny.
My sister is the same way where when we're talking about something, if she gets emotional, she it's like hard if I were to look at her and pick. Okay, tell me what's Happening Here. I see. You're so what I'll do is I'll intentionally like scroll on my phone and have tuner out. She just gets into this like, space of Consciousness. I'll tell her, that's what I'm
doing. I'm like, I'm listening, but I know that if I stare at you, you're gonna stop talking and it's really helpful, especially with teenagers when we kind of have become accustomed to this environment of constantly being on technology. It's definitely not. I wish that wasn't a way that people opened up more, but doing that parallel processing and having that distraction. Totally agree. So, helpful and I love the
validation piece. I know that was one of the biggest things in my relationship with my dad, because when I started struggling with depression, he's never been depressed. Today in his life. So he was like did he realize that kids could get depressed? And so it was really interesting because he first approached it by I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning. I didn't want to do anything and he would come into my room and
he would play classical music. Like as loud as the speaker would go. He think if I play something loud enough, she'll get up, she'll go do something, she'll go to school, it'll be fine. Of course I didn't get up.
I just ignore him. I was like Dad this isn't helping go away and it wasn't until I was in intensive treatment I was at a residential and I had Diary cards that kind of tracked where I was at depression, wise, anxiety, wise, suicidal, ideation wise, and he couldn't understand what I was feeling. I was hiding a lot of things so we couldn't see it, but he would look on these diary cards to
make. Oh my gosh, like she's experiencing a 9 out of 10 for the worst emotions she's ever felt for depression and anxiety and suicidal ideation. And I can't even imagine how much pain that is for someone to go through on a daily basis. And then you could be like, I see that you're struggling and he'd never said that before. He'd never Been aware of that, he never communicated that and yet it was so powerful and for him, just to make that space and
be like, I acknowledge this. And I see it, and it's real, and I can't solve it for you. He didn't get it 100%, but he could see it and appreciate that. And that was so powerful. Especially you said tip for parents or someone who hasn't been there before. Yeah. And I think that's a huge thing. There you said write, your dad's never experienced a day of depression is life. Sometimes you can't relate to switch. Someone's going through most
times. You probably can't, but I don't think it's about fully saying, okay, I've been there. I've done that. It's more so talk to me. What are you? What are you going to kind of feel? What can I do to listen? What can I do to help? I'm here for you. Just like simple things but like, totally. I kind of backwards, methodology of how you usually solve problems and your daily life, right? Totally totally. And it's funny because
validation is so great. Because even when you completely disagree with someone, like sometimes when you look at someone that's depressed from the outside, you know, that if you get up and get active and you get outside that will help but that's the hardest thing for people to do. So completely frustrating to try to just want someone because you can't make them do things. You can't make them get out of bed and yet you don't have to agree with the decisions they're
making. You don't have to agree with the actions that are going on to validate them. You can just kind of be there to appreciate the pain, and the emotions and validate that, and not reinforce and agree with behaviors as well. So, it's just such an amazing tool. I want to take a timeout and, because I know you're all about tangible action for your listeners. I wanted to revise some value. That helped me over the last year with when you're in that state, when you don't want to do.
I think knowing that it would help. So, for me personally, I use a Google Calendar and do a thing called Pomodoro study techniques. I'm very structured in my studies, but the issue with your emotions is you can't say at 11 a.m. till 12, I'm going to feel this way, right? I wish I wish. So what? I've come to learn one of my friends, who's a psychiatrist in Melbourne, he said this thing called micro goals, so I've been doing that.
So an example of that would be. So let's say it's Thursday, 6:36 p.m. and I'm laying in bed. And something of negativity or something floods. My thoughts. And it's supposed to say can't do it. Can't get in that state. Okay, I go to my phone, I set an alarm for 7:06 p.m., so the next 30 minutes, I listen to music, I'll cry, I'll go on Pinterest, I'll do whatever I want and I'll flood those emotions and let myself feel, but at 7:06, then
I'll go wash my face. Walk down the street, cook something to eat, do one, small micro goal to allow myself to transition out of that. So I allowed myself to feel, but not take over my day or Week, which is something that's helpful to me. I know it's easier said than done, but I think that could be very helpful, at least one listener of yours. Totally. And it's so powerful because you give yourself that place to experience and you're not avoiding.
So you're not necessarily problems worse for yourself in the future and then from there, you're able to change your action, through able to change those behaviors, which then will change your thoughts and then your emotions as well. So you can really come full circle and move past that place that you're in will helpfully healthily moving through that and process. The saying.
And so, it's amazing. So some of my favorite posts that you share our about what you should say, and what you shouldn't say to people that are struggling. Because again, we, we all have emotions. We all have mental health. We know what we experienced times. When I have a friend, or a family member, that's going through something, I'm like what's helpful here. Like I have to really, we rewire my thought process to be like, how can I support this person and not going to problem solving?
Because that's how we approach. So many things and it's not always helpful. Yeah. So, I was wondering if you could kind of walk me through the do's and don'ts of speaking to someone who's struggling with her motivation. Anxiety, all of those kinds of things. That's a big question and I my pardon no expert. I just share from what I've experienced. That's when you know what?
I've looked up and found. So I think obviously the things not to say is right your traumatic, your attention, seeking your disease, just just be positive or just snap out of it, right, or relax or like all those things, right? Obviously you can explain why those don't work. Work. But I think figuring out what does work as opposed to thinking about the right terms. I think it's more about thinking about like you were saying the right, thought process? Okay, I'm not trying to solve a
problem here. I'm trying to allow this person in my life to feel accepted feel a valid, a listen to empathize, like the things we've said before, right? So what can I do to help whenever you need to talk? I'm here to listen to you. I can't imagine how that feels right things that I guess open the conversation of except through the acceptance, right. Is shutting that door which they probably don't want to open to begin with.
So the fact that they're slightly opening it you never know how long they'll be open for and what it means to them because that's another thing right? When we talk about seeking support the such a guess, tough term to say, especially on social media. Because the quick response people say is when I've sought support in the past, people have shut me down, people said, yeah, right now with right with Meghan Markle where she went and she asked for support and they're like sorry.
Oh, yeah. So that's spot-on. Exactly. Perfect thing in pop culture right now where it's that's real life, what happens to a lot of people? So I think seeking support is so hard especially if someone has already been troubled in the past from it, so to respect that and be there. And yeah, so yeah, that's that's what I think. Whenever I talk about actionable steps, you can take for, depression, or anxiety, or whatever it is, that you're
struggling with. I always say that the hardest thing I ever did was for that first time accepting that I needed help because they Month and everything was real. It wasn't that I could just avoid it anymore and put it in a
nice little spot. In the back of my head, it was like, okay I'm voicing this, I'm telling someone else, it's actually a real problem, and I was also saying that I couldn't handle it myself which for me, I totally saw as a sign of weakness that I wasn't strong enough that I wasn't able to handle this. That it was too much for me.
And I had so many negative beliefs around that, that I was going to be good enough because I couldn't cope with this or manage it and so getting through that that first time and telling someone that you're not okay and hopefully having that be well received received means that you're not only trying to avoid what you're going through which is creating more suffering for yourself. But you have more people in your corner and they're not going to solve your problems or not.
Going to fight your battles for you. But you have support and you have people, you can lean on and you have more people, you can get advice from and tips and tricks and just so much more knowledge from which you can pull this week's episode is brought to you by saqqara. You guys know how much I'm stressing the importance of good sleep. Good nutrition getting outside staying active because when we Care of our physical health, our mental health, truly suffers as well.
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Yeah, so it was it was crazy and that I was like backed into a corner when I was struggling with depression and anxiety and when I was really, really struggling. I was already in like weekly counseling. I was going to a therapist and we were like, trying to think. I was like, working on, like getting all my chores. Has done or having effective conversations with my parents.
So I was in therapy, just not for depression, and it was just slowly, but surely, everything was deteriorating around me. I wasn't sleeping. I would go like days without sleeping. I wasn't eating, I was withdrawing from every single person around me whether that was my parents or my friends. I was really just going. Six hundred percent into school and other activities to avoid anything and I was just super overwhelmed and really sad and just so many emotions that I wasn't processing.
I actually went into the doctors, my parents brought me in because they were like, this is not normal. We don't know what to do. And what we're trying right now isn't working, so they brought me in to my pediatrician and they ask you the questions or like, have you lost interest in things you've used to enjoy? How are your relationships? Do you feel sad a lot of the time and it had gotten so bad.
I was so withdrawn. And so like removed from coping, and from what I was going through and I was also 13. I forgot to mention that I was 13 at this time. So this was a lot for for someone, my age to be going through. And so I went to the doctors and they're like, okay, you have a psychiatrist appointment this afternoon and during that entire appointment, I didn't say anything to anyone. I was completely silent and closed off. I went to the psychiatrist.
Same thing. So I actually went to the hospital the first time that I ever got that help. And the way that I communicated that I was actually going through something and validated that was, she had me draw, like a pie chart and she was like, what are your emotions that you're feeling? For me, it was just like I said, like sadness and emptiness and alone. And that was what I was feeling 100% of the time.
And so, I went to the hospital and I was there, I think for a week or 10 days at that point at 13 and I had just was so removed from the idea of asking for help or coping or getting support that the ability to voice what I was experiencing or go to anyone. At that point was so far from my my reality. And so for that first time actually acknowledging that That was crazy because I also didn't
realize what Depression was. I was really young at that point, had really heard of it hadn't had friends that had struggled with it, so it kind of felt like I was just kind of crazy. Like, I'm experiencing all these things that aren't normal. No one else is having this going on. And so I was just like, I just am really, really miserable and I don't know why it after that
came. Not only a lot of support, but a lot of clarity, because what I was going through, was, in a sense, not normal, but other people had gone through before, and it was an actual diagnosis, and there were treatments and people that Jobs were to support you which is therapists and
doctors will of that. And so that was that first time that I ever got support on. And then the other pivotal moment was when I was in residential treatment and I wasn't able to stay home because things were improving with depression and anxiety and my family relationships. So, I got to this Hospital in Boston, which I've talked about on the podcast so many times because they have the most amazing program, but they asked me in the really do want to be
here. It's like no, I don't want to be here. I had Googled before and if you've ever Ever seen the movie Girl Interrupted. It's based on this hospital, it was an asylum and like 1900's. I was like, oh my God, where am I going? I was terrified. 14 years old about to like get carted off to some like psychiatric unit and I was so scared when I got there and I was like, no, I don't want to be here.
And they're like, okay, we completely respect that and we understand that and you can't be here unless you see the wisdom and this treatment and you trust us. And so that was the other time where I not only asked Help and I accepted that I need help. But I trust you to other people enough to help me and I gave it to their advice and their support and the skills. They taught me.
And I actually opened myself to the idea of treatment working instead of just going through the motions like I did initially which was hearing that I wasn't okay. And that I was depressed and navigating that. So those were definitely the two pivotal moments for sure. Wow, yeah, I can't imagine what it must be. Like at that point to just with open arms trust someone, when you got vulnerable right and in that state, It's much easier to trust me a good place. It was terrifying for sure.
And on top of that, I just talked all of my belongings and moved across the country and my parents just thought they would take me there. Like, okay, she will drop her off. She's good sign the paper and she'll they'll work on this but of course with so much compassion and love, they were so worried about me but to hear that they weren't going to like help me, unless I want it to be helping her somewhat. Like this isn't how this works.
And so I'd lost everything in a sense in the hope of getting treatment and getting help. And I didn't believe In that treatment that I was pursuing at that point. It's so it was crazy for sure. And it was definitely a moment that stuck with me and I'm so glad that I trusted them because 14 weeks later, I was waking up and for the first time in years, I wasn't depressed. And I wasn't suicidal. And I'm knew how to cope with and manage my anxiety.
And that wouldn't have happened unless I really did trust them, and give that my all. And so, I'm so glad I did, but it was again, terrifying and scary completely amazing, and that life-changing moment that's I think that's most people write with like life-changing. A few moments it's like this really scary transition or you don't know what if and just? Yeah. You're so thankful that you went
through what you did. Now 1,400 that now you have a skill set and now you want to inspire Empower others to probably do the same. And we don't see it in the moment. Like I was like, did not understand the purposes and any of this, I was just miserable. I hated everything. I didn't understand why I was being forced to get treatment. I didn't think the treatment work at all of this had no purpose or meaning or Journey
that I could. So now like three or four years later, I can look back and be like this is why this worked. This is why asking for help at this point was so effective. And these were the resources that that had such an amazing impact on me. But in the moment you don't see that. You don't see the purpose of struggling with things that you can help other people and connect with them. And so it takes time for sure.
Another thing that I thought would be super important and relevant to touch on was red flags of sorts or things to keep an eye on. On to know when someone else is struggling. What should you look out for to keep an eye on other people's mental health and check in with them and kind of be aware of when things might might not be going so well for them. Yeah. I think of red flags is different for everyone, right?
I think it's more. So about being aware of the relationships, you have with the people in your life and what their I said she I guess. Quote unquote, normal is from this super energetic outgoing guy and the last three days I've had Lunch in my car, or lunch at the library, or just small things of just isolating more to check in on and just asking. Hey, man, how's everything doing.
Are you okay, just like going out of your way when you recognize as opposed to just thinking that getting caught up in your own bubble, which is easy for a lot of us to do. So I for me personally, that was one of the things that I noticed, I did more was, I was just more I guess standoffish or I guess no more more tired or made excuses of why not to go to certain things or a last-minute cancellation Fashion.
So I felt like yeah lean into your intuition and try to really know based off your relationship with someone if ya just ask. I think that's from my perspective of what I've learned. I would love to hear your thoughts as well. Yeah, I think I completely agree and I think people won't always be receptive. Or remember people ask me like, are you okay? And the default pic? Yeah, I'm totally fine.
I'm good. But even just knowing that someone noticed something or cared enough to ask, like that means a lot even if I in that moment, was the able to think I'm actually not, okay. I could really use this support because X Y and Z is gone on and this is what would be helpful. But just to know that someone notices, that you're acting differently and cares enough to get curious.
That is so powerful. And so, even if someone doesn't receive it very well in the moment, just know that it might have a, really, really big impact on their emotional state that day. The other thing that I really wanted to touch on because I don't have male guest on the podcast super often. It is called she persisted, but that's mostly because of my story. But I have you read the book? Untamed by Glennon Doyle. I have not but I've heard of it so good.
I'm so she, this isn't like so many books, but she talks about her relationship with her son. And how, when her daughters were born, she trained them from day one to like, think outside of the box. And if they're asking a question and being authoritative, that's what they're doing. They're not being bossy. So she train them to fight against this and be feminist their entire life.
And then she looks at her relationship with her son, when he was becoming a teenager and she was like, I have put him in this box that I was trying to destroy, which is not expressing. Oceans and not saying when you're not okay, or connecting and having strong relationships. And I think that would be really interesting to kind of touch on and get your experience on as far as the gender Norms on expressing emotions and saying you're not, okay?
And navigating mental health challenges because it's a huge, it's a completely different standard for males and females and you see it so much in the treatment industry, even when you're just looking for programs, for teenage boys versus girls, totally different Numbers when you look at like statistics as far as abuse or neglect and male versus female programs, completely different and even just like the rates as far as teenage depression for males versus females.
The number of females that will either be in touch enough with their emotions to voice that they're struggling, is so different from what we see in males. And so I kind of just wanted to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah, I think that's really eye-opening to me, especially the last year I thought female struggle more with mental health or suicide than males. I think females Whole have much better support systems in place right sides that they can go to
for help. So it never gets tickets for normalized. What normalized? His emotions are normal. Like there's no breaking point when the guy who is it is it three out of every four, suicides his mail? And I think that has a lot to do with the fact that we're not allowed to feel are more importantly. We don't have these cliques or groups or friends or family that we feel like we just go when we are not like banter but just like expressed his daily. What's going on right? Spent Iran.
Be like this person is so annoying. I'm so angry. Like that's like no, you don't let it out you surprise. Say what do you think it eventually grew to a point where it's like, oh my God, how could he have done this? It's because there is no fluids. Yeah, so I think that was a huge thing and I've actually done a social experiment know if you saw it on my Instagram, the last few days where I've gone into the city.
So before I say, the last 50 days, there's been no cases of covid here in the whole state of New South Wales. So I put up a some shallots and that it's our cousin. So how to sign says, if you've ever struggled with depression or anxiety, hug me, I was blindfolded with my arms, open the middle of the city and like, 90% of people that hug me, or guys, like I would have never thought a random guy would hug another random guy but Mental Health on the street and be so
vulnerable. So even the last couple days I've recognized that like Guys, want other guys to be receptive to to open that door so that they can just Express themselves, right? Yeah, so I think it's really important that we all do our part as males and obviously, as females to be, as vulnerable as we are comfortable to be on,
it's just it's crazy. It's just a mind-boggling to think about because as humans were built off of connection, when we're not connected, when we're not having engaging responses from people are physical health declines, our stress levels increase, like there's physical Presentations of how much that impacts you and how much that makes you
struggle. And yet males in our society or condition to the ought to do the opposite of connecting, which is not express your emotions, not get really authentic or vulnerable and relationships, and the impact on mental health is just terrible. And then, that's exacerbated because we have all these statistics where it's like, well, females experience things for more than men do, as far as depression, and anxiety related rates.
And it's like, well, if people aren't expressing that in the first place, of course, those statistics will be skewed. And then, as a result, there's less Says, there's less people aware of it and talking about it. And so, it's just something to be really, really aware of and really, really cognizant of because it's just, it's a crazy, big problem and it's like hurts your mind to think about, but
yeah, exactly. And but if there's been one, good thing that I think is come from covid is I guess the destigmatize a shit or more normalization around the the conversation to mental health. But I think there's still ways to go there and I think it's more about. Okay, what are the actionable steps that you can take? Take because people are speaking about it because people are like, you're not busy in this 9 to 5 life. You can't just suppress it with busyness.
Like people are making these drastic like shaky decisions, but they're not drastic. They're just more aware of like holy shit. This where I'm at in my life for this is actually feel. It's like, I need to make changes and just yeah, I think that's one. Positive of covid is, I guess more awareness of our mental health, totally, totally. No, I completely agree were given so much more time and space to just sit with what we're going through before we could just numb everything.
Out with going for like point A to point B to point C and just interacting with everyone and never getting to sit with the emotions and the thoughts that we're having. And now you're forced to do that and that's caused a lot of pain for a lot of people because they are, there were so out of touch with them, that it's so overwhelming. And they're so out of practice of dealing with those emotions
and coping through them. But it also with time you get a lot better at that until I'm with it and coping with it, and hopefully people are gaining more skills and that'll carry back to when we're going back to more normal version of life and we can carry those into our relationships, too. Exactly spot-on. Yeah, I grow sound. Well I'm so glad we got to sit down. I feel like there were so many different amazing parts of this episode will be so helpful for listeners.
So thank you so much for joining me. Thank you, say for having me for everyone, that's listening. As you know, already she's 17 years old and I just met her for the first time and she's I'm so inspired by you and I look forward to watching you along your journey as well. Say thank you, thank you. I appreciate it. In case you skip to the end. I wanted to recap this episode
Zachary and I die. I've into his journey from College Dropout to medical student in mental health, Advocate. We talked all about his experiences with anxiety overthinking and the journaling prompts that help them cope with these feelings. We dive into how to support individuals that are struggling with anxiety, or mental health, challenges, and using diffusers in these interactions to encourage authentic, open
conversations. We also talked about supporting someone when you don't necessarily relate to their experience, but still want to create space for their struggle. Lastly, we talked about setting micro goals to transition from intense, emotional experiences to navigating your responsibilities. And finally, how gender Norms impact emotional expression and mental health challenges.
If you enjoyed this week's episode, please share with a friend, family member or post about it on social media, make sure you're subscribed to the show, so you don't miss any future episodes and leave a five star review on Apple podcast to let me know what you think. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next Friday.