Hey guys, welcome back to. Nevertheless, she persisted a podcast with Sadie 7. Today, I'm here with my dad again, and we're going to talk a bit about what it's like, as a parent to have a daughter or child and treatment what we hope for in the future at home, and all of that. So, we've talked a good picture. Yes, which is a program that was an intensive, residential therapy booty, their
dialectical, behavioral therapy. And so, this is a program that was recommended To Us by our local medical personnel and your care providers. Yes. And we didn't know anything about this at all. No idea did a lot of research online and many that people suggested that we consider this and thankfully we were able to make the connection with the ReUse and it's just outside of Boston and Belmont. And its affiliated with McLean, Hospital, which focuses on mental health issues.
And it's also staffed by a bunch of Harvard Medical School Personnel, so I can't speak highly enough about it. Yeah, they are miracle workers and truly view, but but I'd say that, you know, that's pretty important that I give context as to what I say, Boston. What am I referring to finish? Drop me off on the streets at the Boston University? Yeah, yeah. I think so. So as a parent, at three East, you talked a bit about the parent group, we did family therapy sessions.
And then you also had a lot of interactions with Miriam my personal therapist, as well as different. Yeah. Yeah. So what was your experience as a parent? Well, your child was at three days. Well, at first there's you don't you don't have any experience whatsoever. So my first experience was complete ignorance in that we hopped on a plane, you and your mom and I and we flew to Boston and we go and have this sort of
interview process. Hopefully get you guys kicked you out of the room, he just out of the room. Then they said that you weren't written interested in attending and such a speed bump, travel, cross-country thinking that you were going to get started there. And yeah you decided that I didn't want if you want to. So that was a speed bump and that's okay. We roll with it and thankfully it turned out a couple of days later, it worked out but but
that's a fun story. But setting that aside I would say that, you know I didn't have any context or really sort of any Sort of I didn't know what to do. So good news is we quickly learned in terms of what it was going to be like being a parent. Yeah. As part of three East, and what our role was and what your role was and the good news is they were very upfront.
The team there was very upfront about listen this is as much about you and your wife working hard and kind of developing the skills that you need as a parent just as much as it is about Sadie and her working on the things that she needs to. And I think it was interesting that the geography was challenging because we are across the country. However, I'm glad that basically every weekend, one of your mom or dad would actually fly across the country to spend, as you
said the weekend with you. In addition to the Monday morning parent, meetings and I'm just so thankful. We were able to do that. I know that there's kind of most people would not have been able to pull that off. Yeah, probably thankful that we may as well blessed to be able to do that because I think you appreciate it very much. Much responded to that time. I think it was a big portion of
the success. How much time we got to spend together and practice the skills we have learned and have those trial runs before I went home. True true. Yeah. I know. And to family therapy face-to-face. I think that was a really big part portion. I agree. I agree. And it was, you know, during that 14 week, period.
We went from no communication with each other or almost, no communication with each other, and certainly not genuine and authentic, and deep to you being Friendly generous in giving of how you were feeling and how you were suffering and how much you were suffering and I hope in return. We were being more open communicators as well.
Definitely. And that was, you know, really credit 23 East and what they were trying to do both with you, but also with us, I got so much out of those monday-morning parent meetings that they would conduct from eight in the morning until 11:00 11:30 in the morning. And I know that Jamie did as well.
And so, and as you said, Ed following that with in-person family therapy meetings, where we are all together combined with the one-on-one time that we got over the weekend where there was no nothing got in the way of just us being parents and then you being a kid. Yeah. And that was, that was my own therapy to candidly. Just you and I walking the streets of Boston, I'm going to grab a lunch and I know you and Mommy would do it on the office
as well. So and sometimes thankfully, we were They able to travel across the country, to be with you together. Yeah. So but I was very, very, very happy with how that worked out in terms of this 14 weeks. Yeah, I agree. What was it, like being a parent and still being a parent on at the program provided for a therapeutic boarding school? So so your experience as a parent at a therapeutic boarding school. My experience is a parent, a bit
different like not as intensive. I don't see you every End. Yeah. What's different in that? The therapeutic boarding school has a very different protocol versus the residential intensive. Increased briefs wants the parents to be there every weekend, once the parents to be on campus on every Monday morning. Very much wants this intensive as much as possible interaction to basically, try and push the push Stanley, where's the family?
And to uncover things that come up, like conflict and tension and anxiety. Any moments in this any other. So that was their protocol and that was their approach. Where's the therapeutic boarding school? In some ways was the 180 opposite where had a group we went from having, you know, three days out of seven seeing you or two and a half days out of seven. Seen you to literally the next week when we took you to Montana, they said they didn't want to see us for three months.
Yeah, that's so that was very. Yeah, we barely said goodbye and I was like, wait, what? And that was that was really hard for us. Because while it was very difficult to enroll you in three years, which was across the country. There was the comfort knowing that I will see you in five days. I can call you everyday, call us whenever you want it, and we could call you. And there's something very comforting about that versus at this. Therapeutic boarding school in Montana.
It was, literally we'd really it's important that we not hear or see from you for a long time. Yeah, opinion. Because it was important for your Be to stand on your own two feet and not be overly reliant on us and for allow you time to look inward as opposed to in some ways you could say be distracted by your kind of laying things off on your mom.
And I and so. And again, I think a lot of different approaches can work in the reality is that when you were in threes, that was by many ways, a crisis mode. And so you have to take a certain very acute care. Very cute. Whereas, the Third, Repeated warnings will clearly is a huge step down in that you're sort of. If it's a big step forward in terms of, on the way to kind of great mental health and fitness.
So, but they're different. And so, as a parent about therapeutic, boarding school student, it's just, you have to be prepared for a very different approach, including the level of interaction and availability that you get with your child. And so, for us, that was probably one of our biggest struggles was that we went from, as you said, you know, tremendous amount of That's very open and amazing and exciting. Because we just even a step down from where we were before.
I was kind of surprising not to see you guys every day not be able to talk to you in person. And then to go from, I get to see you two and a half days out of seven. Call you every day to see you in three months. Yeah, you know, by the way, the heels of that you're going to have Google doc time interaction rather than a phone call and you'll definitely have a phone call for social reasons.
But it's once a week and then it said and short and And then obviously family therapy, which was wonderful because it was at least through FaceTime, so you'd be able to get that visual, but
very limited, very limited. Now, on the positive, I think it really put you in an uncomfortable position of having to look Inward and to make sure that your foundation was strong regardless of your mom and dad, which I think is an incredible, incredibly important life lesson and will serve you the rest of your life. Yeah. And And this is where parents and think despite their best intentions, don't give their kids enough space to be able to
develop those foundations. And so, I'm certainly holds from therapist to therapist who do the same thing. They both practice DVT that's what they preach their approaches can be so different it so varying levels of Effectiveness for different people. Yeah yeah so that's definitely like as a friend and as an outsider you definitely like learn that there's like a ton out there and that any time that you feel like you've reached a dead end and there's, you know, not to sound cliché.
But like no more hope, you know, like there's always another solution or something you can at least attempt and try, that's could give you the results you want. So that's what I kind of felt like was happening. Freshman year, was this kind of like difficulty with knowing how
to deal with it and freshman. Your there were also times I definitely made mistakes as your friend in terms of like not reaching out when I should have or you know, there were times when I felt like I could have talked with you more and I didn't I think, as a frantic fault for any. No, absolutely, absolutely. And I think that's part of it too. Is like French is not like stealing shit people. Yes, I have different degrees of like regret around things but there's not exactly.
That's the thing is to get to his regret.
Yeah. Which is like, you know, I'm lucky to be in a place where I don't have regrets about what I've done in the past and for example, there's one time I remember when you were like, oh I literally have the suicide note and I like didn't do anything because I remember, she talked to me and she'd be like, oh yeah, like I'm talk to my therapist about it. So I was kind of like, Like at that point, I was like, oh like she's talked to a therapist like
what more can I do? When in that situation, I probably should have been more forward and more assertive but I think that's part of it too. Is like navigating, the system is so hard and figuring out how to do it is part of it.
So, I think that while some of those mistakes can be like problematic, I think they as a friend, it was necessary for me to figure out how best to navigate the resources I had and also how to do it in a way that was actually helpful to Sadie because sometimes it would be like I could do something, but that, in the end might not be helpful to you. That could honestly harm you more than more than help. So that's like, always a challenge. Always a, always a struggle. But yeah.
What else? I'm? So you saw me at that point freshman year. Yeah. You're so in the know reach out to a lot while I was in Boston at McLain and then in Montana my God, yeah, I would call you back a single week and phone combos. We had a Google doc, we did. We had a Google doc.
I um, so yeah, McClane, I might as one of the people that I was okay to call because that was a very healthy friendship and so every color every week and talk to her, give her the update, complain about like, I heard all about the weather, which, of course, we don't experience here in California because we have the same weather all year round. But it's snowing pretty much snow heard about brunches. Heard about altars of activities. That was kind of fun.
All your outings. Yeah and then I started to get too dark to you more and Montana after probably like six months it took a really long time for them to let me get to talk to you. And that is all that. That was probably. The thing I felt most was that time. Yeah, and that was grossly, a regular that they even let Talk to you at all.
Yeah. So seeing that person that you saw leave for treatment freshman year and then the interactions that we had later when I would come and visit or even after I came home, do you notice a change? Do you think it was different? Yeah, I think the probably the biggest thing I noticed is like you were excited about things and it sounds so base and like oh like that doesn't mean anything but like there was literally point. I remember when you didn't seem excited Do anything about
anything? You would wake up and you just we would talk but you wouldn't you weren't excited about anything and it was like heartbreaking because it's like, there's nothing I can do to make you feel like you want to wake up and do something the next day. But at the same time, I have to watch you sit here and like feel like there's nothing you can do. And feel my God, that was freaking me out. Are you kidding me? 21 minutes or not recording? Yeah.
So I think that was like, seeing you be excited about stuff being excited about going places and doing things and like, you know, snowboarding and like stuff where you You were engaging your mind and your body and like you were excited to do it like you weren't forced to do it. You weren't like doing it because you like had to do it to seem normal or anything. It was just like you wanted to do it and you enjoy it. That was like, probably the biggest thing.
And then I guess I mean I think our conversation has changed a lot. After you came back or conversations before I at least always felt like the check-in was super important and like we always have to talk about how you were feeling and it was like almost the core of what we talked about. And when you came back it was almost like you, you have the self-awareness like we don't have to talk about it. You just knew and you were able
to like you. Like if you were in a spot where you weren't feeling good, you knew what to do next. It wasn't like I didn't Feel like we were just talking, not get anywhere. It was like, you knew what you had to do next to kind of feel better or like you know, maybe is relax your mind or like take a nap or whatever.
So that was like, another thing. It's like a lot of the times before I think we would talk a lot and I would feel like we were getting somewhere and then it would feel like you still felt the exact same way you did. When we started the conversation, which, of course, is, you know, if that's just how it is, when you have, you know, depression and anxiety. It's you can't just like snap out of it, you know, like you're in the spot and you can talk about everything, but it won't
necessarily help. Um, so that was like, that was hard. That was really hard. I think on both of us hard for me just because I felt like I didn't know what to do and hard for you. Obviously for very clear reasons because he's a person going through, but it was like hard. Yeah. And coming back, I think it wasn't like that. It just all of that, that made it that any tension that there
was because of that was gone. Like, it was just so if so felt so natural and it felt like, you know, just felt normal in a way that it had to be. For. So as a friend with to someone who is struggling or who is going through that, obviously, it's very important to not take on the struggles that they're going through.
I feel like, yeah, there was a lot of, as we said, we both had other friends who are going through things, I know for me, especially, I would take on their struggles and feel like I needed to manage it and Their depression just fed, my just grew, and grew and grew. So, it was very important to. It's very important, separate yourself? Oh, I don't know. I was going with this. Yeah, like separate yourself like, yeah. How are you effectively? Do you think you are effectively
able to do that? I think? Yeah, I think to some extent like I was yeah, like I had a support system of my own. So for example, my mom was is was and is My main support system.
In that any time, I felt like I was struggling or didn't know what to do. I could go to her and when it came to supporting Sadie both as a friend and also just to someone dealing with depression, it was like, if I felt like, I didn't know what to do. I knew I had someone I could talk to about it, who I knew would keep it confidential. And who would give me honest feedback. Okay. Anyways, so important to not internalize other people's feelings.
What other advice you have for listeners, who are trying to support someone who Is struggling with depression anxiety, any of that. Number one is like, don't be afraid to like, ask for help. Because at least for me, like, I was a student. I was like a youngster. I was just a young blooming youthful. Teenager at the time border. Yeah. At that time, that I was friends with Sadie when we started being
friends. So the important thing is to remember like this is not a, it's not your burden, right? Like very important and I think that also can Come really problematic and friendships to as you begin to see this as a burden, then it'd be like if it becomes something that you feel is a burden, you won't want to spend time with this person
anymore. And I the thought of that like terrified me, so I knew that like it was important at that time for me to prioritize our friendship over like anything else that was going on so that it wouldn't pervade and kind of like, you know, in fact, everything that happened with between us as friends, part of it is like knowing that it's okay to reach out. For additional help from an adult and like not being afraid to do that.
And knowing that, even if, like, I knew, if I did it, like Sadie, might be mad at me now because she didn't want me to do that, but I know that in the long term, it's beneficial and that it's necessary and that I couldn't do it on my own, so that's part of it. And then, the other part of it is having your own support system and, you know, making sure that you're not getting stressed out by this or staying up late or whatever it is because of it.
Because then it again, it'll be harder to spend time with that person, which is It's not not ever worth it and then also it becomes it could you know, that burden could become too much on you and so yeah part of not internalizing, it is. Yeah. Is that Sweet. I'm what do you wish you'd done differently? I wish I'd been. I'd wish I'd been more explicit. When you with you when we talked.
I think a lot of the time I was afraid to say the word depression, or say the word anxiety or talk about suicidal ideation. I was too scared of those words and I think it made our communication a lot blurrier and a lot of fog year and it was harder for me sometimes to know what you were really feeling and probably hard for you to know that I was hearing you and understanding you because I couldn't verbalize it. It. So I was too afraid. So I guess like I was so scary.
There's a lot of weight to those words. They mean a lot and I don't experience it so I can't know what that weight is. And so for me, it was like, if I say this word am IA, am I using it correctly? Let Her Cry. Like, It's both a medical word and like a like an this again goes back to what I was saying about words that are used today in society liberalization. That lose weight. Like they're. So for a while, triggered trigger, big white shoes were used to like coming UPS all the time.
Yeah. Which completely invalidates people experiencing post-traumatic stress disorder. Right? Who actually have triggers. Yeah, we're like I'm so depressed or this makes me suicidal or my God. I have so much anxiety. Yeah. Yo, myself I think was a big one too because KMS was used a lot and so it's honestly still is used a lot. Yeah. So it's a lot of those dreams that just get used interchangeably and lose weight and can be very invalidating.
So especially when being serious and using them in a genuine way, you don't ever want to, It's hard because you see those use so lightly and yeah and it makes them lose their weight. Yeah. So to assign that to things when it's not doubt is is a hard thing. Yeah and I guess like I guess what I was saying about like not being able to communicate and verbalize it. It's like because they become so colloquial because everyone says it, it's like, if I use this word, is that not validating?
What you're feeling, or is that too extreme? It's like it's these two ends of this spectrum and I like couldn't find what it meant for you. And so I was afraid to talk about it and I was afraid to use those words and I think like yeah and I think people forget the importance of like language and vocabulary and like how it really can affect people. Thank you so much for coming by Pie has so much. I'm fine. We'll have you back many times I'm so ready, guys.
I feel like there's so much more we have to discuss. Well, okay, here's the thing. This is like a brief overview. That's doesn't even go to down here opinion. But the number of conversations we have about mental health and society and like our opinion, I believe naturally talking about like we just talked about it, all of our conversation. Yeah. Shouldn't we didn't even get
into today. So I can't wait for those episodes where we literally just debate back and forth about the pros and the cons, and all the dimensions of social media. Exactly. All I could stuff the way the magical creatures are so looking Valley culturing all that's time. It's a cold. Stigma. Hey mom. So, yeah, there are definitely more episodes coming about that but thank you so much for coming today. I love talking to you for having me. This was so fun. Yes, nobody will see my sister's
play. Oh my God, I'm so excited. It's going to be so good. It's a musical. I'm like really excited. Apparently, it's good. These are these chosen notorious for being like hours long, but I'm like so ready Sadie's. Not expressing the same feelings as me. But I'm telling you, I'm literally so excited. We hate go now though. So thanks for listening. Be sure to follow the nevertheless. She persisted podcast Instagram
at nevertheless. With SS, the Twitter that she persisted underscore SS and the Facebook. Nevertheless, she persisted podcast with Sadie Sutton to stay up-to-date on new episodes, dropping recordings behind the scenes content and all of that. Be sure to tune back in next week for another episode. Thanks for listening and I'm sleepy P. Wait I'm not ready. I wasn't ready. I like to go now. Okay, ready and PS? Nevertheless she persisted