Welcome to she persisted I'm your host Sadie Saxton a 19 year old from the Bay Area studying psychology at the University of Pennsylvania. She persisted is the Teen Mental Health podcast made for teenagers by a team in each episode. I'll bring you authentic accessible and relatable conversations about every aspect of mental Wellness. You can expect evidence-based, Tina, proof resources, coping skills, including lots of DBT,
insights and education. In each piece of content, you consume, she persisted Offers you a safe space to feel validated and understood in your struggle. While encouraging you to take ownership of your journey and build your life worth living. So let's Dive In. Hello, hello and welcome back to another episode. I am running late for the airport as we are recording this intro so this is going to be a short and sweet but today's guests are the founders of the Therapy Group and host of the
shrink chicks podcast. You should check out both of those amazing content. For both the Therapy Group is located in Philadelphia. So if you are Philly located, they have a therapy practice with tons of therapist. You can work with so Link in the show notes but today's guests are Emily be early. LM ft and Jennifer chicken. LM ft. Together, they founded, both a therapy group and host. The shrink tricks podcast, they
both still practices therapist. They have so much wisdom and insight to share about the therapy World, their own experiences sharing. What it's like from the other perspective. So, this conversation is hilarious. It's amazing. I know you're going to gain so much Insight from it so while we go to the airport, let's dive in. Thank you guys so much for coming on. She persisted, I'm so excited to have you on the show today. Thank you so much because we love a filly babe.
We love you. I'm so excited. As soon as you said Philly, we were it was it needed for about? That was little, I'm from Philly. Come on my body, I live. I'm at UPenn right. But I will also say this listen like podcasting wasn't a thing. We are in college but also City I would have been that's probably for the best for us but also The fact that you're sitting here doing this unbelievable thing to make it accessible to destigmatize therapy.
Like we have to also start with like thanking you as well because like this is why your generation is the best generation in my opinion because you just need to do it so much better. And I wish that we had people when I was a freshman in college having horrific, part of the reason we became therapist is because we had horrific experiences in therapy and we're like, we could do this better and for both of us, a lot of that had to do with college. Okay. I'd love to dive.
Into that. Yeah, I think college is maybe one of the roughest mental health times. Yeah, it's bad tough. I've done a couple of episodes recently and I think pain especially doesn't have the best reputation with mental health and going into it.
Like I feel like my mental health has been good if not better than it's been before and it's all about like the different boundaries that I set up the different habits I put in place that allowed me to do that but if you're going into college with no experience of managing your mental health, Knowing what to expect with the independence, not knowing what your priorities
are. It's super overwhelming and it's like a Surefire way to struggle and feel very overwhelmed because there's so much on your plate. Absolutely. And just yeah, just the pressure of college and then also the lack of resources, right? How many people are waiting months on a waiting list, to get to a caps program, the counseling program at their school because they're simply just enough, not enough money across the board, no matter what you're doing.
There's not enough money put into mental health and so you're so Amazing, you can sit here and like, oh, here are a b and c all the things that I did, most people would be, like, I prepared for college by, like, buying this right stuff for my dorm, which is so cool to, like, find the do also did that look like, okay, how do I like mentally emotionally psychologically, prepare myself for such a massive life
transition? Yeah, and I think some of that too comes from the work that you do on yourself before. You even get into college, right? And right now, we're seeing such a huge Mental Health crisis with adolescence, you know, we see it in our practice that are coming in, there's and so adolescents are really struggling and so you're, you know, the fact that you did so much work to to get yourself to this point. Really speaks to that how you're managing it in college. Yeah, it's funny.
Like what I was thinking about moving away and going across the country. I was like bleep but I've done this before, like I've lived in treatment like this is the second time. Around the block, but that's not the experience for so many teenagers and it's so
overwhelming. And so if I can like, take the little bits and pieces that I learned and share, whatever was helpful, I hope that someone will listen and be able to implement these things because not enough people are talking about it, it's not widely enough discussed. And and some of these things are really simple. It's like getting enough sleep. It's making sure that your basic needs are met. It's having enough people in your community that are checking in on you.
It's making sure you're feeling your emotions and not. Seeing that and not overwhelming yourself with commitment. So it's small things. You just have to be aware of and make sure that you're prioritizing, so that you don't become overwhelmed. Absolutely. The basic things that we've. Yes, exactly. So I would love to dive into like, you guys kind of touched on why you became therapist and then, that background of your experience is in therapy because I think it'll also be helpful
for listeners to hear. Like, wait, that was my experience as well. Like maybe it doesn't have to be like that. So talk to me about your background and why you became therapist. First, I'm gonna start. Yes, you go first. Okay, princess you know growing up, I would say I was a pretty depressed child into my adolescence and and had some I actually had a really great experience as a child in
therapy. I had a really wonderful therapist, but I remember that the way in which therapy was introduced to me, was don't tell anyone about this, you have to go to therapy. Don't talk about this was talked about as a punishment. And it was talked about as a secret but that was my first experience in therapy. It was also something I very much was a very sensitive child.
I'm a sensitive adult. So I very much gravitated to that role of helping people taking care of people so it was a natural fit but then as I got into my adolescence as I you know, when I entered into college I started to have other therapeutic experiences with therapist that had a little bit
of a clinical wall. It was very Difficult to connect to them and so that, you know, kind of skewed my view of therapy a bit until, and I always, you know, I majored in Psychology and undergrad so it was always something I was very interested in but I was always told, you know, you're not going to be at my by my parents. You're not you're really not going to be able to make any money as a therapist.
So listen to them and I went into marketing and had the worst year of my life right after college. And was like, listen I'm just To go do, what? Feels right for me and sometimes you have to make a mistake and do something that you really hate in order for it to drive you into something you really love. So I then applied to grad school, met Emily and the rest was history, what is funny thing?
Because for as much as gent is, we always talk about often often a family system, which is where family systems therapist, there is, there's multiple kids. There's an imp loader and an Exploder. Jen is an imploding, she keeps it inside. She Will destroy itself within, I am an Exploder so for me, adolescence was it. Eating disorder self-injurious Behavior, a borderline personality disorder diagnosis of bipolar that, you know,
everything. Because I my adolescence was this feels off but I do not keep my stuff inside. I go the other and so I had a similar experience where I had some positive experience and then I had a lot of negative experiences, what are those is in a residential treatment center Of those, within our PHP program are partial hospitalization program. People don't know. And then, I go to college. And every experience I had in college was super - every therapist did not get me.
I really, really struggled and Jen. And I are both Petty bitches that we were like, we could probably do this better. And so I actually went to school to be a teacher, did the first half my student teaching and was like, oh no, I'm not made to be around children, this isn't this Edition and not it for me. I went into my advisor, I was at Penn State. What's my visor? I said, what can I switch into that? Will not keep me. Like, I can't keep staying at
the school. So what can I transfer into that? I'm still gonna graduate. Like, just one semester behind and she said, oh, human development and family studies. And I said, what the fuck is that? She said, basically means you go to grad schools, like, okay, great, I'll buy myself, some work supports, I perfect. What? I was always a person that people wanted.
I always like talking to people that I was very interested in talking to people specifically about their relationships, especially about their And a really about sex. And so Jay and I both ended up and graduate school at Thomas Jefferson University because they have a Sex Therapy, specialization a couples therapist. Specialization we both knew, we wanted to do something along
those lines. But even with our Specialties, the thing that has come back to us, that speaks to our soul over and over and over again, is the fact that I believe therapy is for everyone, just not every therapist is for everyone.
And so if we can make thyristor, people probably a lot of people that listen, This podcast that like maybe you're already cool with going to therapy, but there's a lot of people that are not, there's a lot of people that it is still stigmatized as little people that still, or they had one really negative experience and they're like, I will never go to therapy again. And so, I really believe the more we can convince people that there is the right therapist for you somewhere.
Even if it wasn't the first one, you found that. It can be incredibly life-changing. I think that's so true. And I think it's especially difficult for teens and adolescents because a lot of the time they're not as Alton the decision-making process. Yes. Their parents have found this person in there like this person with, like, 45 years of experience with adults? This is the one. Yeah. And you're like, no, or they're like, this is a child therapist and they're like offering.
You sticker charts. Ya know. So it's can be difficult to find that match and it requires a lot more advocating for yourself. And especially if you haven't been to therapy before being like, I don't think this is right there. You're like, well, maybe this is just what therapy He is so it can be really difficult to differentiate if it's not the right fit or if this is just a new experience for you. Well, I love what you said about
someone else, taking it out. The number thing you have to do when you find the right, therapist is like, you know, because you can get Word of Mouth referrals, which are cool too, but just because they were the and that's why I say like they're bizarre. Every woman, not that every therapist is for everyone right now. So your best friend, can have a therapist they love and that is not the right match for you. So like you do have to do some
of that work. The same thing we're talking about is like taking personal radical God's ability to, I get enough sleep to I-10. Am I taking command of my own life and healing? Yeah, and the one thing we know at the most important predictor of therapeutic, success is the relationship that you build with your therapist. And so often people, like, people stay in romantic relationships that aren't right for them.
People stay in therapeutic relationships, that maybe aren't right for them and they don't know that there's anything else. And so you recommend a therapist shop, we recommend to For yourself to make sure that you're finding someone who is the right fit for you. And as you were saying with the The Adolescents piece, I think so often because the parents are recommending a therapist that adolescent already feels like other therapist is aligned with my parents.
Yeah. And if you're if you're fighting up against your parents right and you want to become your own person, you want to be able to speak your truth when you already feel like the therapist is aligned with your parents. There's already that, you know, breach of trust in the relationship. So I think advocating for yourself as Adolescent like doing the work, you know, whether it's with your parents or whether it's, it can be really, really helpful and in choosing the right therapist.
Yeah, the best therapist relationships that I've had as a teenager or the ones where you go in and they're the first thing they say is like, okay, yes, your parents are paying me like yes, they helped research but I'm your therapist. I'm on your side. I'm in your corner.
Yes, they may give advice or try and like put things on the agenda, but I'm first and foremost here, to help you and just setting that Boundary at the beginning and making it very clear, that that's kind of how things stand. Just like, if you were an adult like some random friend that was like, I think this is what you should talk about in therapy deck, okay? Thanks but no same thing for if your parents are like let's have this to the agenda.
Like it's not their session most of the time unless you're doing family therapy, which is a whole other burden to tackling tough one, something that a lot of people don't know, is in this obviously depends on state, but like in the state of Pennsylvania at 14 years old you get to consent to your own treatment meaning at 14 years old. They can't tell your parents anything without a release of
information. Now that varies by state if you have listeners from a lot of different places but 14 and 14, we still think that our parents take care of everything for us. We're like we think our parents are in everything. You do have, right? It's something that we should all think of, as we get older and we become parents ourselves. We should Empower our kids to know this information and to
respect that privacy and time. It's so true and it definitely makes It's me think about so many experiences that I had at a therapeutic boarding school that I went to that was definitely in the troubled teen industry and I'm such a big advocate for treatment and therapy because it was so helpful and there's also this other side of things where I was like.
Well, that experience was not as helpful and really illuminates like what was helpful and that advocating for yourself that privacy that at 14 consecutive treatment, like that wasn't totally there. Because your parents were the ones that were watch, much more involved, kids were getting sent to treatment. Regardless of if they wanted to be there or not and in the long term, you just saw that people that were being forced to be there. They weren't dedicated. They weren't involved in the
process. They would jump through hoops like myself included but just to get out and it wasn't really truly effective or helpful in seeing long-term results. Absolutely today's episode is brought to you by saqqara. So, car is a nutrition company that focuses on overall, Wellness, starting with what you eat. They have plant-based, gluten-free, non-GMO, meal delivery services as well as Wellness Essentials, that you
can buy online. My two favorite things that I recommend getting are there Detox Drops. They are little chlorophyll drops that you can add to your water. They don't add a taste, but you get all the benefits of chlorophyll is a super easy thing to add to your routine. My other favorite of theirs is their lunches and breakfasts their lunches. Mostly bowls and salads and they are ready to go deliver to your
door for the week. So you don't have to worry about prepping a lunch or cooking something. If you're at home you have your salad ready to go and they're delicious with the best of the best ingredients and they taste amazing. Their breakfast are also so good so easy especially if you have a really Rush morning routine. You're on the go heading to school work, whatever it is, highly recommend checking those out.
So if you want to check out saqqara you can use the link in today's show notes or use Kodak. So Sadie at checkout for 20% off your first order again codex. Oh, Sadie a check out for 20% off your first order of meal delivery and wellness Essentials. So I would love to hear from you guys what you like to see and clients, obviously not like what diagnoses are like, what presentations, but what is someone who brings a lot to the table? And you're like they want to be here.
They're invested what helps a session run smoothly. Especially for people that are like I've never been to therapy but I want to try it. And I want to make sure I'm giving it my best shot. What is your guys recommendations? Well, yeah, I was just so that I think there's a lot of things that play into that.
So we're probably just going to go back and forth with this but because the fact of the matter is, everyone comes to therapy at different stages in their Readiness, or willingness to do any sort of change or work or dive into trauma. And so, I want to say everything with the caveat of Of. We first and foremost empathize with the fact that everyone comes in at different stages and that's okay. Part of our job is needing the clients where they are.
And so, you know, I would say we don't necessarily have an expectation on, you have to come in at this very specific time in order for us to do good work. I think something that is really helpful is going into therapy and it not just being the 50 minutes in therapy that you're doing the work. That you're also taking what you talk about in therapy outside of the room and you're thinking about it.
You're processing it. Maybe you're doing some homework that the therapist gave but I think that that's that's one thing that's really helpful. Is to take what you're learning and therapy and bring it outside, right? Because we're only there for 50 minutes. If we were there for the entire week, you know, that would be really rough, right? You don't want us to follow you around, you will not be able to know. I've done the intensive treatment on the five times a week. It's a lot.
It's a lot a lot. So you don't want a therapist 24 set, you want to be able to take the things you learn and really apply them. So I would say everyone's unique and what they're bringing in and and and I think an important thing to note too, is that we understand that, sometimes it might take years to dive into some really tough trauma or some things that you never told anyone about that. It's not our expectation that you come in. You can if you feel ready for that.
Absolutely. Before we're right there with you, but it isn't If you're a year two years into therapy and you're thinking, I haven't told my therapist this and I feel like it's too late. It is never too late.
It actually happens. So often that clients will come in and they don't disclose something to you after a year, two years, because sometimes it really takes time to build that trust and build that therapeutic relationship in order to feel safe enough to do. So I think, what are the things that drive to made things that come up? So one is, how are you spending? Right. So what Jen said is that like Like 50 minutes once a week.
Like realistically, if you did anything one time a week for 50 minutes and then just like cataracts in it, the rest of the week. Like, it wouldn't be that ideal. Yeah. So what are those is like yes, Ed in those 50 minutes and my talking about myself or other people there is this part? A lot of times we end up in therapy because the people in life are there's like a quote that says like you're in therapy because other people in your life art therapy, I think that's true.
But if you understand the entire time, talking about your roommates shitty boyfriend, I don't get to hear about you. Why it hurts, you why it triggers? You why it brings up from you, right? So are you bringing about yourself? A lot of us are become resentful of people in our life because we make it all about them. And then we pay money and spend 50 minutes, making it about them even more. So, how do I bring back to myself, right?
Because the only person I can actually control and change is me, am I really prioritizing that in those sessions? and additionally, I also think If you have an issue with your therapist, if we say something that hurts you, if we say something that's Off the Mark, say it one of the best things you can do is to use the therapeutic relationship as a model and an experience for other relationships in your
life. So, if you're someone who struggles with conflict, have a conflict with your therapist. If your struggle, if you're someone with who struggles with saying, no, say no to your therapist with it. They need to switch that session time, right? Like what The things, how am I actually practicing and using the therapeutic relationship to then grow my relationships outside of the room? I think that's so true.
And I think like, if there's anyone that you want to challenge a relationship Dynamic with, it's the person that spent years in school and does this professionally with people all week. I like. And that's, that is verse. That is exactly the point I was going to make, is that like, we are trained to make sure that we can hold that space for you in whatever. Ever whatever that looks like, right?
It's we welcome feedback. We welcome you to come in and say certain things to us that maybe by right? Like oh and the last session you said this thing to me and it really triggered this for me. Can we talk about that? It's actually so important and kind of essential for us to be able to help you do that work because for you to be able to bring that into therapy and and work through that in your therapeutic relationship allows you to take that and bring it
into your relationships outside. If therapy. So the work that you do, sometimes in the session, you can bring outside into your other relationships, we make mistakes all the time, right? Like I've had men. Oh my gosh, I had a client a few months ago who I have worked with person for years and years years, we have an amazing relationship, I love them. Dearly we talked a lot and she came into session and she said I have to bring up the sing and she said don't get into advice-giving mode.
She said to me, right? And you want to know what I think I would have because the thing that she brought up was Was something we had done this work on. We had done this thing, but she that wasn't where she was at right now. And she was able to ask for exactly what she needed. And that shouldn't have been her job in the room, but the fact that she was able to do that after all this time together. Yeah. And I was able to say you are. So right.
Let's just hear this today. It's just process. Let's just be quiet around this, right? Like, that is powerful because it also showed her she's allowed to say that to people. All over. Even if it doesn't go great, even if people are reactive, once you have it, start to happen once which you start to have something you start to feel empowered. That's Mastery. That's how we build self-esteem. Self-esteem is not built from somebody tell you, you're pretty
and smart and lovely. Although, that's a lovely things to do. Self-esteem is built through Mastery. Keeping promises to yourself and growing yourself in that way. Yeah, I love that. And I also really like what you guys mentioned about, how you Necessarily need to bring everything on day one. I also think for my own therapy Journey, the beginning. I would just go there and I would like at times literally
run out the clock. My parents are paying, but I would stare at the clock and I would do nothing. I feel so bad for this therapist. I was not the star client, but no wonder she didn't pick up unlike my extreme depression diagnosis because I would sit there and stare at the ground and do nothing for the whole
hour. I've gotten so much more out of therapy if I bring something that I want to talk about in session, it's some kind of agenda think about what's been bugging me this week and it doesn't have to be like some deep belief system or trauma that you'd experience sometimes. I'm like, my goal for this week is, I want to improve my habits. I'm going to try and work out this number of times and I just cannot do it. What do we do to address that?
Or like I have these School assignments, that I'm really struggling with procrastination. What are the tips there? How can I make sure I get that done. So it's little things, it doesn't have Be super deep but you're at least getting some need met and something that you're going through addressed and then you leave the session more prepared to navigate that, I love that you brought that up because I think there is a preconceived notion about what you need to be bringing into therapy.
And every session can look different and it's such a journey in such a process, right? I think there's this idea of your going into therapy. 0 means you're going to talk about your childhood wounds for like years and years and years like yes. Some sessions are like that but they don't have to be. And part of the process is going going deep, and then coming back up and going deep. And then coming back up, right? There's a level of safety that's
created in that. So I love that so much because I really think that that dispels, the myth of you have to go into every session in a certain way and that's not true. Yeah, what other myths do you guys commonly hear people?
Whether it's from clients, whether it's people in your community that they have about therapy about treatment about mental health, that you're like, that is just so absolutely not true and I wish people were more, people knew this So we actually just talked about one of these on a podcast because we are couples therapist to this idea.
That if you're going to couples therapy, there might be there must be something really wrong in the relationship where we actually recommend couples therapy at any point in the relationship. Yeah. Because couples tend to go to couples therapy seven years too late. Oh my goodness. Wow. And they come in and they're already. He out the door and there's no work that can be done in that point. So in terms of couples therapy, I would say that's one big one.
Is that, I believe that you because no one ever taught us how to be in a relationship, right? Like that's and being a relationship is very difficult and I actually, if you're modeling from the relationships, you've seen in your life and they're not healthy, or they're not good Dynamics. It's like, okay, we need to get some help and rivers that end. There's, unfortunately so much shame around that. But it really is, we find it. Important to just do that maintenance to learn about your
partner to learn about yourself. Can be so incredibly helpful in your room and your romantic relationships. I think another really big myth. We talk about a lot is that you should leave every therapy session, feeling better. There's that's not true. I should feel so amazing when I walk out the door, like no, like we're not giving you like we're not giving you like a Oxycodone. And then your water, the
psychiatrist you feel worse. So I think one thinking that, like everything is going to feel amazing and perfect and wonderful and rose-colored glasses. That's toxic positivity bullshit. And I would also say, thinking that it's going to one of the things that makes it difficult, especially in college. Campuses is sometimes you only get like five to ten sessions. Yeah, yeah. Hey. Which is a rule. If you're dealing with like one roommate issue, when you like this is, I just had To do this.
We're just talking this out and maybe you only need five sessions to do that, but for a lot of us we need more than five to ten sessions so having this expectation on how long it will or should take can sometimes set us up for feeling disappointed or feeling like we're not doing enough and feel like we're failing at therapy. Like that's not how this is.
It is not one-size-fits-all, it is not one perfect thing and I also think that all therapists are exactly the same, there's so many different modalities of therapy. You You have to find the right one for you, right? Like so maybe CBT works but CBT dozen or DBT does, but a somatic doesn't right. There's so many different types and I know that it can be really confusing because we don't want. And what see if we don't educate.
I don't know mental health. We're not like he hears a different types of therapy will say to your doing that but we're not doing that he was right. Right. Right. So I'm gonna do that in like high school. Like we do when we should be learning like mental health in our taxes, mainly we just assume everything's the same. So not all therapies created,
equal, not all. This is the same so it's not easy and it's not simple and it takes time and the expectations can make us feel a lot of disappointment around this experience and your other. Another one that I want to mention is that you know your therapist very much cares about you and thinks about you outside of your session.
Because I think you know sometimes you know if people think about mental health are you just doing it for the money or you're just right or you have to care about me because I'm paying for you? Oh, that is actually so not true weave. So care for our clients and we think about you outside of outside of your session. We think about how you're doing, we think about what's going on for you and we still need money to eat. We still need money to eat right much exist.
Both things are very can exist in the same dialect Lane. Exactly, exactly. So we very, very much care about our clients. I That. So you guys work in family systems, I would love to hear about that. Is, we talked about learning about the different types of therapy. Talk to me about that modality and how that shows up, whether it's like couples therapy with teenagers with adults, all of that. So, yeah.
So, we're trained our, we're licensed marriage and family therapist, which what that actually means is that we are trained in family systems, so we look at everything within the context around it. It doesn't mean that we only work with a lot of couples and families, but we also work with a lot of individuals. It just means when I work with
you as an individual. I'm also thinking about all the different systems you come from, so how work impacts, you how your family of origin, impacts you how in the generational trauma affects you. And so, we're just looking at everyone as part as a larger system for me to understand how to best help you, because we believe relationships really
matter. It's incredibly popular in this day and age just say like, let's just cut people off but actually what we try to get people to do is to not cut people off. Hard, uncomfortable, frustrating conversations for growth. And that is what a lot of family systems is so really looking at the context of the situation that say be everything you've been through in your life. Also is a product of all the systems. You've been a part of something, something that can be really helpful with that.
Work is helping you to not recreate patterns in your family systems that maybe were dysfunctional or maybe we're not working for you. So helping, you know, if we working with an individual, we're working with a couple of helping you recognize the patterns that you might be recreating in your current relationships. You might not even be realizing it or recognizing it. So helping you gain that awareness.
So that if you're bringing something into your relationships that was once serving you or was normalized in your families, but is no longer serving you and is hurting you in some way to help you acknowledge that and help you make changes to that. The one of the things you might that might happen in the first few sessions with an mft is we ask A three generations back. I also want to know about your parents and their story about their grandparents, right?
Because we also believe that like it's easy to blame the parents for like, how do we have empathy and understands why people are the way that they are. We truly believe everyone has a story. In part of our family systems is also narrative therapy. Where we believe people have stories that they write and we also get to rewrite them at any time. So what's the story I'm telling myself about who I am? What The story I tell myself that my parents was the story.
My parents have about me and this goes for, like, you know, the stories people put on to you as well. People make you out to be a certain way, when you have a mental health, diagnosis at a young age and it actually says very little about your future. Yeah. Yeah, no. And if anything I found that having had a diagnosis early on, I feel more equipped to navigate any challenges or emotions that arise. Like I was so sensitive to any like environmental stressor or
trigger. When I was like a teenager and really, really struggling and the other day, my friend was like nothing, really fazes, you like you're pretty chill and I was like that is such a compliment because that's so did not used to be the case. But it's like I've built up this ability to cope with the things that come at me and know how to navigate the emotions that arise.
And if anything that's a huge strength because most people learned that way later on in life, oh yeah, I always tell everyone it's better to have your break down your teens in your 20s because if now you come I'm in my office and you have it in your fifties which is fine to. We're always going to make it work. But I like it nice existential break down early on totally even if the child gets to work through it because you really, you know, we don't get when you get through it.
You learn a set of coping skills as you're saying that are so beneficial to you as an adult. Also logistically, like I took a semester off of school did a year and a half of treatment, like when else are you going to have time for that? And it didn't impact College. I was still able to Things around like earlier on guys, it's the move I promised a hundred percent and you created incredible Mission out of it and an incredible podcast which is unbelievable.
Thank you, I appreciate that. Today's episode is brought to you by nut, pods not pods creamers, are plant-based Whole 30 approved kosher non-GMO vegan and gluten-free and they have zero grams of sugar per serving. What I love about nap pods is, you can stock up on your favorite creamers and because they're plant-based, you don't have to refrigerate them as soon as you buy them, so I'll get it. Like three or four containers. I will keep them in my dorm, but not in the fridge because the
mini fridge space is precious. So I will put whichever container I'm currently using in the fridge. The Restless put in storage, my favorite flavors are sweet cream and French vanilla. They are delicious and they taste like they have sugar in them which we love. Make sure to get sweetened unless you like unsweetened creamers, in which case they have those as well. And they also just came out with a new oat milk, so I will add
sweet and creamer to that blend. It is that the right word with my little like milk frother thingy that I got on Amazon. And it tastes just like a Starbucks, we cream cold found. So, highly recommend trying their new Barista oat milk, as well as their creamers. You can use code. She persisted podcast at checkout for 15 percent off your order, or use the link in today's show notes, so code, she persisted podcast for 15% off, check it out.
I promise you will enjoy and I'll just add a little more yumminess to your morning routine. So we talked about kind of rewriting narratives having empathy for people in your life. Are there other lessons that you will often Ian, that clients are often learning in therapy that they are applying these insights that they have that they're like, whoa. I've never thought about it. That way, before that you're often helping people work through another. It's a very vague question.
No. Well, it all day every day. Yeah, like constantly. So, so, I think, you know, one of the big things that I, you know, just mentioned and to dive into a, you know, a little deeper is that sometimes we learn ways of surviving as children that were once so functional for us, right? So, for example, If, you know, when you were a child expressing, your emotions wasn't allowed, right? So, the way in, which you dealt with that was to hold it in and not tell anyone how you felt not
that. This is a personal experience at all. No. No. And so, but as you get older, that is that is something that helped you survived when you were a child, right? Because expressing your emotions was not going to be helpful for you. As you get as you turn into an adult and you get into relationships, not expressing your emotions. Actually ends up hurting you, right? You're not a willing participant in your relationships. If you're not willing to express your emotions, you're not
letting anyone else. Know how you feel. There's no way for anyone to know, so there's something when you take the things that you learned that helped you survive at one point in your life and you bring them into adulthood and you don't even realize that you're doing it. You don't even realize that these things are hurting you really learning how to relinquish that and recognize that you no longer need those coping mechanisms as a way to survive. I Is a big aha moment.
Sometimes it takes people a while to get there because it's so terrifying to let go of the things that were once. So, incredibly helpful for you or surviving, they kept you alive. Exactly. Exactly. And they kept you connected to your parents, right? So being connected to your parents or your caregivers when you're a child is essential. And so as you get older and you recognize, listen, I'm in a dilemma fully functioning adult. I can take care of myself.
So how do I want to live my life as opposed to the things that are driving me? The things that were once survival for me and I really bringing me down. They're not helping me anymore. I think that that's a huge thing that is really helpful and in therapy and I think one of the things we also talked about in regards to that is what the general public calls expectations. We call unconscious contracts, right.
So like we go into relationships with conscious unconscious, contracts, those are expectations. They're typically not spoken ones, right? So I have an expectation gen I own a business together, right? So if I have an unconscious contract because of that She should be fully loyal to me and never talk back to me or never have an issue with something. I'm saying that's not real, or fair or true, right? But if I haven't unconscious expectation of, I already put us in an unconscious contract.
It means that when Jen does something where she says, he hadn't really like that thing you did or this didn't work for me. I think she violated a contract, and I see it as a betrayal, even though it wasn't. So we can exist together goes back to the dinosaurs. Dialectical. Some of the dichotomy stuff is that there's so many parts of all of us and what are the
expectations? The unconscious contracts, the things I'm entering into relationships with and maybe I need to take a little bit deeper. Look, that what I'm thinking, other people should be doing. And then also, what am I thinking and expectation, I'm putting on myself. Yeah, that's huge. It's a small reframe, but it can have such a big impact on your relationships on the way, you're seeing things. So many different implication. Absolutely. And those things can come from our Families.
Right. Like expectations that our families passed on to us. They can also come from societal expectations, right? Like what Society tell, what social media telling me? I should be doing right now? What point in time am I in my life? Telling me I should be in Tulum because everyone needs to be there. I'm giving baby videos all over my feet and I'm like, I'm 19 in college, what have I done to attract this? Like, it is the, even the algorithm, right? Like, so like this, That we are
being influenced so much. Unbelievable. So that's those are some other things that we can help you break down. Because once again these are so subconscious to us that we don't even realize that were functioning in that way. Yeah, right. We have this maybe like timeline on our lives that we don't realize is they're from society from our families from and we're pushing things forward that maybe we don't even want, right? Maybe, we haven't even asked ourselves.
Do I really want this or is this something that Society? Like Society expects of me are there certain? Like I don't want to use like red flags because it's been good to observe these things but certain thought patterns are beliefs that are associated with having these expectations that people can be mindful of, if you hear yourself saying, should a lot, right? If you're saying, I should do this, go ahead and disappointment resentment.
If you feel live, disappointment relationships, a lot of resentment and relationships, then you're doing those sugars. Just like Jen said, right? That like it, because you're putting In all this stuff on other people. So if you find like, why am I not happy and right, like am I causing my own suffering in some ways? Yeah, you're shutting all over yourself. I love it, I love it. No. And I think that's one of the biggest things for me,
especially, it was that I did. Cause a lot of my suffering. I got in my own way, a lot and that takes a lot of undoing. It's like, belief systems its relationships. It's behaviors. It's all of those things and having that therapeutic relationship to help work through, That is huge coming full circle. We talked about how therapies for everyone are there. Certain things that people can be aware of today?
Like therapy might be helpful whether it's different relationships or they're struggling with a behavior or a belief or emotions that would clue you in to be like, you know what, it could be helpful to get support. Yeah, I think therapy really is helpful for everyone. Whether you're having red flags or not, right.
But I think the sort of things is, if I end up disappointed in my relationships, if I end up resentful, if I find myself, irritable often, if I find that, I either lash out or shut down both our emotional reactions. Like, I think, sometimes we think only lashing out the emotional reaction but also if you shut it down, if I'm an employee overson Exploder, all of those are times to be like you.
I know what, like it could be cool to processes out with someone and Not the same as talking to your friends so often people like oh but I had my friends to talk to that's the blind leading the blind at. Yeah, would you Girlfriends, like really is telling agers when you go to your friend, if you had like, you know, like I guess if you're probably Strokes. Yeah. But is it giving you a different or is it still the same thing
that keeps happening? Yeah, I think rumination to like Very in your head about certain things can be a really kind of a big, you know, this might be a good time to go to therapy if you just find yourself, not in the present moment and and more. So in your head a lot rethinking things, thinking about things like kind of battling your own mind, that might be a good time
to go to therapy. Yeah, there's another thing that I love to mention that I learned in my normal psychology class which is that people that present with extreme symptoms and presentations. They tend to seek treatment very quickly and they're able to get support, they're able to go. And to remission is not the right word, recovery. Whatever it is a lot quicker than people that are presenting
in a much smaller way. It's not completely derail in your life, but it's having negative impacts and it ends up lasting for decades and having much more detrimental impacts because they're like, well, I don't need treatment yet. I don't need therapy. I don't need support. It's not that bad. And in some ways it becomes so much more severe because it impacts so much more of your life because you Gotten that support and it is so true, right? And I think a lot of it has to
do with. Are you high functioning, right? These people like you know you could drink a lot be a high-functioning alcoholic. You can have be a high-functioning eating disorder, could have high functioning depression and when you're still functioning in the socially appropriate mainstream way, which first of all, we have a sick Society like really obsessed with productivity like right? Like just because you're like normal in this Society like isn't meaning shit.
So yeah right so like if I'm having all of these things how high functioning Am I? It's so true. People are becoming less and they think like well I can get out of bed. I don't have to pressure, it's not what this looks like and so some of these and that's also how I think TV and movie has two has wheelie, displayed depression, which is not accurate for the majority of people who would be diagnosed with depression.
And and I think you know, part of this just as we were talking about in couples therapy like Digby. Stigmatizing the conversation around just going to a therapist right at any point that it Doesn't mean you have to be, you know, at this breakdown, right? That if you're battling your own mind, if you're struggling in your relationships at any point, it can be helpful to go to therapy.
Yeah, it's such a great resource and I completely agree with you guys that with what you guys said that therapy's for everyone and you can find some benefit with some therapist because there are like endless possibilities of what you can work on what you can dive into and it's all what you want to bring to the table. Like again, there's like no set. This is what you have to focus on this.
What you have to talk about, like it can be anything and everything that's important to you, and that's what makes it so amazing. Only, absolutely, I love that. Well, thank you guys so, so much for coming and sitting down for this conversation. I know it's going to help so many people. I absolutely loved it. Where can people follow along with your content? You can find our podcast anywhere that you listened to your podcast called shrink chicks.
We also have a therapy practice called the R&B group. We're currently seeing our clinician, we have 30 clinicians, they're seeing clients in person and are Westchester and Philadelphia offices. Also doing virtual in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, New York, Massachusetts, Florida, and California. So if your home any of those States, all those places you can, you can fill out a contact form and we can set you up with the therapist and I think that's it. And we got anything else.
Go that's it, go to therapy, go to self, Chico to therapy. Yes, and Sadie. Thank you so much for just like creating this platform. I wish I was as confident in myself and just did the amount of work that you did. I wasn't always like this, I thought of work but it's incredible. It really is incredible. What you're doing? We appreciate you. I appreciate you guys. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of she persisted.
If you enjoyed, make sure to share with a friend or family member. It really helps out the podcast and if you haven't already leave a review on Apple. Cast or Spotify. You can also make sure to follow along at at she persisted podcast on both Instagram and Tick-Tock and check out all the bonus resources content and information on my website. She persisted podcast.com, thanks for supporting, keep persisting and I'll see you next week.