Thinking Sideways: What happened to Kenny Veach?

on Hulu. Also brought to you by Breach, a new podcast. A podcast team started looking into the biggest hack in history and ended up in the middle of the story a mysterious voicemail disappearing files. It got personal. Breach is a new podcast that takes you inside the world's biggest hacks. They set out to answer questions about hacks of a huge American company and found themselves investigating a Russian conspiracy. Subscribe to Breach That's b R E A C H

in your podcast app Now it's far Stay there. Welcome to another episode of Thicking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined as always by Steve and and it's time for another mystery. Uh. Yeah, this week, we're gonna talk about a good one. This involves like the Nellis Air Force Testing Range in Area fifty one and all kinds of cool stuff. It's pretty cool.

So yeah, let's jump right in. Uh, we're gonna talk about the very strange disappearance of a guy named Kenny Beach in the mountains just east of the Air Force range that I just mentioned. Uh, this happened in late so that means that we are kind of breaking our five year rule just a little bit. It's it's it's just barely out there. Yeah, it's less than a year away. But but I've been following this story for two or three years now and there's been no movement on it

at all. So I think we'll probably saved. And for those of you who don't know what we're talking about, UM, we have a rule where we won't cover a case that is five years old, but that hasn't been active for less than five years, right, so you know, people say, like, who Banks he is? That's you know, twenty years old. No it's not, because Banks is still a thing, right, But sometimes we will break our rule for things like this. Yeah,

we will actually it's it's pretty close to the margin. Yeah. So, but I think people need to know about this story. We need to find Kenny, and I'm sure we've got some Las Vegas listeners. You kill Kenny somebody. That's the only time we're making a joke. Right in some comments sections out there in the web, some people have made that comment. No, okay, but back to Kenny here. I wanted to give a shout out real quick like to our listener Jacob, who suggested this story a while back.

Thanks Jacob. Here's where some people put the starting point of our story, which would be December. A YouTuber are called Serious Disclosure, which posts a lot of like UFO kind of stuff, paranormal, paranormal, extraterrestrial stuff. Yeah. They posted a video that day called Son of an Area fifty one Technician, which is an interview of a guy named Paul h Utes whose father worked on secret government projects

out there around and near are. That's what he says. Yeah, a lot of his work took place in the Nellis Air Force Range, near where our mystery takes place, just a hop skip jump away and you may have heard of this. It takes up an enormous chunk of southern Nevada northwest of Las Vegas, and it includes of course Area fifty one. Didn't we talk about this at one point that Utah is like owned by the Air Force. It's some in absurd percentage of Utah is owned by

the military. Yeah, I mean the Western United States, an absurd amount of his own by the federal g But you talked particularly are you talking to Nevada, Nevada both, Yeah, the four Corners areas. Yeah, Yeah, there's a ton of that, especially like Nevada. I really got to the brunt of it for things like Area fifty one and also nuclear testing. A lot of news like a beautiful empty desert to do you and White Sands which is beautiful but also

terrifying probably radioactive as hell, so radioactive. Yeah. Yeah, But back to our video this, uh Paul, you guy said that his father got drunk one time they were in Germany at some sort of like you know, beer garden sort of thing. Is that UTS? I think it's because it's spelled the way that US potatoes spelled. I thought they pronounced that. Yeah, that's fine. UTS is probably the mispronouncing that should have been. I don't remember there at

October and father starts. His dad starts talking about some of his secret stuff that had been working on for all these years, and he talked about this one thing. Apparently what mostly what he was doing there was he was being handed alien technology and they expected to kind of reverse engineer it. That's what he said. That's what he said. Yeah, And so one of the biggest project he worked on was this thing where they were trying to essentially create a whole new kind of energy source.

And they had this project that was going and it used, it had a lot of organic components to it, and it never wind up working in the end. But his dad told him that this thing almost when it was like all put together and everything almost it was quote actually i'll quote it here, almost like it had a consciousness unquote. How how far into this guy's video were you able to make it? I watched it all the way through. You you have a better constitution than I do.

I couldn't do it. I think I got maybe like a minute and a half. I felt like I had to get all the way through. But I feel like you try to skip on videos like this and then you have to go back. You're like it makes it worse, it takes longer. You might as well just sit down and suffer through it. It's kind of like porn, yeah, where you like skip ahead and you're like, we'll not have to go back and understand why they're doing that action that because it's the script doesn't make sense. I mean,

the dialogue just doesn't line up. I'd say stuff like, wow, that doesn't look very comfortable. Yeah, yeah, that looks kind of a natural. But anyway back to our thing. Okay. Another YouTuber, a guy named snake Bit McGhee, the name entire Yeah, that's kind of a cool name. He watched the entire video and uh commented on it, and here's what he had to say, Steve, would you mind reading this? Should I do this in my David decompany voice, no

regular voice? This ain't nothing. I'm a long distance hiker. One time, during one of my hikes out by Nola's Air Force's, I found a hidden cave. The entrance of the cave was shaped like a perfect capital M. I always enter every cave I find, but as I began to enter this particular cave, my whole body began to vibrate. The closer I got to the cave entrance the worst the vibrating became suddenly I became very scared and high tailed it out of there. That was one of the

strangest things that ever happened to me. All Right, thanks Steve, And uh so that's from snake Bitt McGee, who, of course was none other than Kenny Beach. Yeah, it was, yeah, and his comment got some unkind replies from some skeptical people out there. You nice, Yeah they were. They made fun of him, and there was there was there was some other things here, like he said one time, I'm going to go back. Uh this is actually I got some of the stuff off of Reddit because it turns

out the original video they disabled the comments unfortunately. Yeah, so they are gone. So but luckily there are people out there that snagged the that snagged them. And also we have the like way back Machine, Freezy Healthy. Well sometimes I don't know if YouTube is one of them, because I I guess I just haven't checked recently, but there are a lot of sites, the bigger name sites that disabled the way back Machine, which I ran into recently with one of our cases where it was just

kind of like it was you couldn't even crawl bastards. Yeah, I hate that anyway, But screen caps. I got some screen caps, he says, some some Reddit eues. It's just what obviously, as you can imagine, was discussed intensely on Reddit. Yeah, sometime in late he after some taunting, he commented again, I'm going to add it this a little bit. But he commented Kenny snake Bit said, I am going back. I will film what I saw. I can't say it will be interesting. Maybe it's just a strange looking cave

that has a mountain lion living in it. It should be sometime this week. I'll have my nine milliment with me this time, just in case. Last time I was unarmed and that very dangerous terrain. The mountain is located right next to a bombing range. I found some giant a few rounds of AMMO before and he goes on a little bit like that and then ended up. I hope it turns out to be something crazy that would be so cool. And yeah, it sounds a lot like Kenny.

It does sound like Kenny, doesn't it. Kenny, by the way, when he left on his final four right to the m K, he was forty seven, but he had that kind of kind of did not seem youthful enthusiasm about him. I thought he really didn't look like he was. He didn't look or speak or act like he was for he acted like a twenty something near two mid twenties. Yeah, yeah, yeah he did. He he was young at heart. There's

no doubt. I shouldn't say it was he was slash is hard because we don't know what happened to Kenny, right, Yeah. And then uh, and then after he went out in early October, I think because he wanted to go out and find this cave again to prove these people wrong. He wanted film it, documented everything, because the Internet is taunting him. And the best thing to do when the Internet taunts you is to show the Internet it's wrong. Yeah. And so, as as per these comments that I just

read some excerpts from, he did indeed go back. He went sometime early October, took it it, took his video camera with him like he said he would, and he posted a video of this trip on October seventeen. Let's play a clip from the video so you can all hear Kenny speak for himself. Yeah, I'm looking for a cave that I I found, and I didn't have a I didn't have a side arm when I was here before, and something about that cave just spooked me. At all the caves I've ever gone in, this one just made

my body vibrate. The closer I got to it, the crazier my body felt. And I was like, all right, I'm not gonna go in there right now, but I'm coming back someday. And I talked to some people on YouTube and I told me I'm coming out here, you know, because they kind of called my hand on it. So I don't know if there's gonna be anything to it, but it might be interesting if I can find it. I got to relocate it. And this is a big mountain range I'm in and uh, I'm not. I'm on foot,

you know. My truck's way out there. There's no roads, there's no trails. It's a pretty rough terrain, so hopefully i'll find it. It's shaped like a big M. It's a big cave that looks just like a gigantic M, and it's about as tall as I am and kind of narrow, and it's stuck on the side of a mountain. So I hope I can find it again. And if if I do, I'm I'm going in there. I'm gonna put on my light and take my gun out and walk in there. See if I find anything, we'll see. Okay,

that's Kenny and I. I just would encourage. I know a lot of people listen on their commutes or whatever, but if you have the ability to go out and watch the video, any of these videos, or even just parts of it, I mean, I know where I presume we're going to post those links on our website. Things said was podcast dot com um. But I mean, like, he's not just using a cell phone camera, and he's not. It's an old school camera. I think he is used

as an old school handheld like cam. Well, I don't think it's on a tripod, but a I don't think it's one of those enormous ones that had a VHS tape. I don't think so either. But it's not just a handheld camera because at the very end of that video, he zooms into the antelope or bighorn sheep and then he zooms back out and you're like, oh, Mike, it's

got a great camera. Yeah, but it's not. It's not necessarily like a go pro just strapped his head, which you would kind of you would now definitely an iPhone. It wasn't or it wasn't an iPhone on a selfie stick as some of the cameras that yah. Yeah, let's say it's a decent quality one like that zooming in on the on the sheep was that was pretty good. It was a really good It's got actual glass lens and to be able to do that that's not digital mag Yeah. And this is two thousand fourteen, so it's

four years ago. And that's funny too. You know this this the YouTube video got more than well over ten thousand comments. I I read hundreds and hundreds maybe maybe a few thousand of them. And I don't know, but at the time of this reporting, all the way through, at the time of this recording, it was over eight

hundred thousand views. Yeah, yeah, to a million views maybe talking about comments of the common comments huge yeah, and uh but but as you know, there's that one point it's kind of near the end where he he spots the big horn sheep way up in the cliffs and he zoom was real real close in and tight, and then the sheep sort of looks at him because he's talking, so the sheep probably hears him and she looks at him, and Kenny actually says, oh, he's looking at us. I

think he must hear me talking. And then there's at least at least a couple of guys in the comments. It's so creepy when that sheep looks at him like that. I think it's just it is very interesting though, because you see he goes, oh, he's looking right at me. I guess i'd him out, and he zooms out and he like kind of keep like halfway through the zoom. You're like, okay, well that's where Kenny's at, and then it just keeps out and you're like, well, god, how

did he even see that? First of all? And then how did he zoom in so well that it looked like it was just as in focus as everything else, but probably not that important to it very much feels like though, you see these a lot of stuff flying Adventure Time where it's oh, they pan back and the pan just keeps going. Suddenly it's halfway across the universe. Kind of like that's what it feels like, because it's

like a Google satellite situation. Yeah, Google Earth. Yeah, So Kenny a sheep so did he have any other videos on his Actually he did. He posted He posted several other ones on the same day that he posted this one. And there's one where he tries to sell his house, and that one up like a month and a half before. This one has a special twist. What is Kenny? What is kenny twist? Okay, well, let's listen to Kenny's own words. Now, this house is only approximately just just under four years old. Um,

it's beautiful in every way. It's perfect and clean, and there's not a spot anywhere on any of the walls. And I'm putting this house up for sell along with me, I'm offering myself along with the house. So that's the niche, that's the unusual thing right there. So by the time this video is finished, you will know exactly what I'm offering, what I'm talking about, and hopefully you'll have fun watching the video and we'll see, you know, we'll see what happens.

Didn't he have a girlfriend? I'm not sure exactly how it wasn't selling the house in him as some kind of personal dirty slave. And he gets to he's your your maintenance guy, up keeping Maybe yeah, I think essentially what he wanted to do was have somebody pay him a bunch of money for the house, but he gets to keep living there. We've done some stories about people who have had that kind of situation before. I think, yeah, sorry, just quickly, how many total videos did Kenny post on

this account? Not that many? Like five? I think it was like five. There was the selling the house one, the m K one, and there were were there were three where he um, he was trying to he was

apparently trying to get on this TV show Shark Tank. Yeah, and so he was promoting some showing out some of his cool inventions, like he had an approved toilet paper holder, um, and he had a glow in the Dark, the Glowler Bear, the Clowe in the Dark, polar Bear figurine and yeah, and all of they're like, all three of those are really well titled to They're like, Shark take Submission, super cool. Unique. You've watched the glower Bear, right, No, that was the

only one. I watched that one. Oh my good god. I couldn't resist watching the gloler Bear. And he has some brass to him because it is he took it. I took this tin, but I found and he put a loan the dark sticker letters on it and snowflake stickers, and then he hands sowed this terrible polar bear. He's like, this is my hand pattern that I drew, and it's just this like weird, sketchy thing. And then eventually at the end of the video he shows it up close

and it looks nothing like a polar bear. It's so craezy. It's not a polar bear. It's bearing about Penny. And I think we'll kind of get that as we get on with the story. Is that like he was a ballsy dude. It was. It was he was, and well he at least he really wanted to represent himself as a maverick cowboy adventurer. I know, we kind of like, I don't know where in your script this is, but when he would go out on these tracks, he would

like deprive himself. Oh yeah, for sure. He would do would take very little water and almost no food, and he's like twelve mile ten hour hikes over rough country. And I think that was kind of like part of his persona was the kind of like tough guy cowboy I can and crazy, crazy brave, you know, one want to take chances and speaking of which there's another video I think that was posted by his well now ex girlfriend of Kenny playing with a rattlesnake. You know, you

guys have both seen that. I'm that's how that's is that how he gave him himself as YouTube handle, that's how he got his name. Apparently it's been bit a couple of times by rattlesnakes because well that's what happens when you mess with him. Yeah, okay, so they will bite you. And the thing that's like painful is I

really really like snakes. My significant other and like everybody else in my life beside I am super pro snakes and how many snakes in my life and pants and whatever, and so it's it's kind of frustrated the videos like this where it's just like it's kind of man haling a snake. It is. And then when he decided to

put the snake, he doesn't the worst. Yeah, well he did in a way that I I don't know if he thought it'd be safer that way, but it was really what he does is I would have just taken it and sort of like just chucked at a few feet away. Yeah, I wouldn't the proper the proper way to release his sneak is you hold it by the tail because they can't coil all the way back with themselves. And then there's a little bit of a you know,

a wiggle shake, so they straighten out. And then they when you set them down, and you set them down head first and then let the rest of the body go, and they immediately go forward. They might turn and coil and get ready to strike back, but you're already too far away. And that is not what he does. But you know, what he does is he walks over far far away and then throws it up into this tree. But he doesn't actually get it to the tree. But

also Radolson don't know. They don't, you know, and he pitches, he throws it up in the tree, and uh, the poor snake bounces off some branches and then falls and it bounces off some more branches and eventually hits the ground with a It's like, I felt kind of bad for the snake. He's like, oh, I wonder if for off gonna hurt you. But that's like I just you know, it was unkind. But also and I don't think I

don't think Kenny was a cruel guy. I think. I just think the thing about it too is that is that if he tossed it up and it hit a particularly springy branch and bounced off the tree and back on the very well could have happened. So it was just so Kenny. It sounded me like a fun, great guy, a lot of energy, but sometimes occasionally lacking a little

bit of judgment. And yeah, and uh, I think as he's already sort of touched on it could be said he marched to his own drummer, and he uh, he wanted to do something bigger, you know, than what he was doing. He had had a job for years and he quit. Most of us, Yeah, and he quit his job about mid apparently, and he was just looking around for some new big thing. He wanted to do something, something creative that he could make a living, but without having a bunch of clocks like most of us. A

lot of us want that. And he hadn't found that things weren't working out for him. Okay, obviously he was trying. We've had all those those shark tank things that weren't really getting them anywhere. Did you did you watch all of the shark tank things? No? No, not all of them, just some excerpts in the fields. They were all bad. They were they were none of them. Yeah. Good. There's

a reason that they just sat on this unattended YouTube. Yes, yeah, because they were what did he had the redneck whistle? The redneck whistle? He had a weird knife thing to ry Well yeah, well, the well, there was the spinning thing, but the redneck whistle is my favorite because it was literally a stick with a hole that he had old trout by hand, with a bullet casing in the tip. Somehow he turned it. It was it was knocking. So weird, Yeah, so weird. Yeah. And so I think Kenny really wanted

to be creative. Maybe he wasn't quite as creative as he thought he was. I don't know. But but he also had a girlfriend. He had a girlfriend and her name was Cherry and I think I'm pronouncing that correctly, but probably not sherryan pilgrim. Uh. And she actually has has had a few things to say about this whole thing, like, for example, the state of his finances. But about this time when he posted that that video on YouTube, said

he was running out of money. He'd been living off of his retirement funds and money was running out and he was getting really worried about finances and depressed about the future. She's the one that you can hear in the Rattle Stake video. Yeah, she's the one that that was holding the camera. And there's there's videos there. I don't know it's actually I don't remember his video, but there's still of Kenny hanging through like an old gold mining shooting, and then she's in the shoot next to him.

They're they're old dilapidated ruins is not the word idea, but it's like a ghost, the ghost, but she's the one next to him and they're still in that way. That's that's one of the few images of her that I've seen. If it's truly her, yeah, I believe it is, But you know, it's hard to say. She's she's a little bit of she's she's a little a little elusive. There's Yeah, there's something about her. Yeah, at least her

presence on the internet. Yeah, and maybe she just just doesn't want to have that much to do with the Internet. But she did post that video that had a lot of stills. It was like kind of a montage of still Yeah, that's from yeah, And so that was that was posted like last year or the year before, but a couple of years after he disappeared. But okay, but anyway, this kind of gives you the background of our story. Okay, he you know, he was out of work and a

little worried about money. You'd had this to do, just dust up on YouTube. He'd been out and posted and been out there to the Sheep Range. I didn't know if I mentioned where that that's where the cave is, the Sheep Range northwest of Vegas, and he had posted his video he wanted to go back out. Okay, So I'm gonna talk about first the video and if you're curious to see where exactly where this took place, of course you are, then let me tell you. It begins

with Kenny standing next to an abandoned mind shaft. The coordinates, if you want to really know exactly where it is are be Are you ready thirty six point five five four seven four seven by negative point to eight eight six six zero. So there you go. Yeah, you couldn't point that on the map. You can, actually, yes, yes you can pretty precisely. And if you look at this, yeah, if you look at this on a map, June out

a little bit. You see. Necess area is actually just east of the Nellis Air Force Range as I mentioned before, which is it provoked some speculation on the innerwebs about am maybe what happened to Kenny, like like maybe the military was was or is dumping dead alien bodies in the Sheep range or toxic waste. Perhaps. I know that In the video, Kenny's kind of zooms in. He goes to the top of this mind which is a vertical shaft,

and zooms down to the bottom. There's an old, an old wooden ladder, a couple of ladders going all the way down quite a way, and he didn't try to climb down, which is one area where he showed a little sense because you know, I'm sure those ladders are rotten and wouldn't support him. That there are the very body we see an old rusty, an old rusty metal drum, and of course that's that's what some people say. Well, I wonder if the military put some toxic waist down there.

And I will say this, these videos um triggered my SMR like whoa, because it's I mean, he's just like walking through like gravel roads and talking and I don't know, like if there's something something about it that really appealed to my brain apparently. But they're also it's also worth watching. It's only like twenty it's long, So if you have the ability to watch these videos, I would. Yeah, I

mean he's not. I mean he spends a good five minutes talking about like some nuts that he found, ye, and then at the very end there's like another five minutes about him being like, let's look at this tortoise I found. I can't you can't touch it legally, you can't touch it. When we get as close as I possibly could touching it, and I loved it to The tortoise is sitting there and just got his arms with

arms and legs and head sticking out, you know. Then Kenny comes out close, just put his hand next to it, so you can get an idea of the size of it, you know. But you could tell Kenny was like really hard not to touch it, Like he was like, okay, you can't touch it. Who like, don't touch it. But now if you watch the video, as he gets close, all of a sudden, all of a sudden, the tortoise goes.

He just sucks everything. Yeah. No, I mean the video is pretty intense, But I would say, you know, it's a twenty minutes well spent, especially minutes, especially if this is something that interests to you. But I would I would definitely watch it. Oh yeah, yeah, definitely if you're interested in this mystery, and of course you are, we're talking about it. Yeah, yeah, I know. But but anyway,

back to the military dumping toxic waste. That's fine. Now that now we had to talk about the tortoise sooner or later. But uh, you know that actually makes sense. No one ever seems to go up in the sheep range. It's kind of godforsaken. Um okay, so sore, So how do so this whole thing is Kenny's gonna go find M cave. He's going up there to look for the M cave. So it starts so he starts that, so he starts at this mine shef But I'm gonna talk about,

first of all, where he parked. He parked about four miles south of there. And now, and so if you want to get there, if you're actually in Vegas and you want to drive out there, it's easy to get to. You drive out Highway nine northwest from Vegas. You turn right on Corn Creek Road and go about four miles and the road tease right there at Alamo Road, so

you gotta turn either left or right. Turn left which is north, and then go about three miles turn right on Joe May Road, which is the only road can turn right on. Is that I'm sorry? Is that somewhere close to the Ruby Tuesdays out there? I'm sure. I'm sure there's at least two Ruby Tuesdays on the way out there. Yeah, but a good point by the way, and stopping for the milk shakes are awesome. And you get on Joe May Road, you drive about four miles and you get to the end of the road. That's

where you are. You're at the south end of Joe May Canyon. And so that's where he purchased jeep. He hiked north up that canyon about four miles to the starting poart of the video, which is the mind shaft. And word of warning on this right. If you go out there, go take somebody, Take a friend, at least one friend. Definitely take some water with you. It's kind of be hot out there. Take a lot of water with you, wear some bhoots, yeah, take some food. Prepare

for the day. Probably a first aid kill at least a compass first aid kit. Wear long pants for the rattlers, and good boots. Like I said, yeah, the great thing about water is water weighs a lot, but you can always stash some somewhere along the way to There's a lot of guys of ways to deal with that, but water is indispensable. Butt of all. It's it's the desert, so it gets freaking cold, and I will take a place of the coat. That's what. Yeah, layers, wear long pants,

take lots of water with you. One thing I want to point out though here is that I know this for watching the video, but when we when we've been talking about it, this mine entrance, if you don't know, it's not a mine entrance that is in the side of a hill. It's a vertical mind shaft with this weird metal contraption with a polleon top. Has all been planked over for the most part, and I feel like it made me very uncomfortable for reasons totally unknown, because

you feel like it's gonna collapse. Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't walk out on that wooden platform. Definitely had nothing to do with fall in New Vegas now, but yeah, if you if you decide to take this hike, though, as you're working your way up to the top of this canyon, is very near the top and you'll see the mine. There's this sort of this thing sticking up like a metal framework. You'll see it off on your right. It's sort of a top of a low hill that's taken

more than one single Snickers bar with you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um. So when you get to the mine, that's about at elevation gang. So that's that's uphill and that's where the video starts. Right then, that's where it starts. From there, you go about a quarter mile north to what's called wild Horse Pass and you can find out on Google

when you look for it. You'll see it as a little saddle there and you go over the past and from there Canny goes downhill to the north and then makes a left through a cleft between two cliffs and goes into what's called Picture Canyon, which makes yeah, which you can also find on Google. Um, it's marked, and that's where the cave supposedly was somewhere in Picture Canyon, and that this part of the video starts at nine minutes thirty seconds and we're talking finger canyons, right, uh yeah, yeah.

Picture you go to the cleft and there's sort of a biggish sort of roundish area, large area, and then and then there's a valley that goes off to the north, a canyon that goes out to the north, and then another finger if it goes off to the west. We're talking like relatively small all I mean, there's talking like right, yeah,

we're not talking right. We're talking about hundreds of yards wide, but not hundreds of yards wide the widest and then it towards the towards the western side, towards the western end of it, it narrows down. It narrows down quite a bit, and then it sort of snakes out off to the west. And throughout this video, of course, Candy is dispensing lots of handy tips on wilderness survival, like don't bother bringing a compass, water or food. Yeah, yeah,

that's he's a super survival he totally, he says. He says, oh, I only bring a little bit of water and I brought one candy bar to get me to the day. It's like okay, dude, yeah, I mean it was kind of like near the end of the video. I think it was kind of the near the Tortoise situation where he's kind of like, Okay, are you going to this can?

And look this cool toward here amazing. You could tell he's just a little delirious and like super White, he's still got miles to go before he gets where the beer is going to be there, it's still going to be and he yea. And he talked a lot about the one beer he's got sitting in his car that's still somehow going to be cold. Yeah, well if you buy, if you put in the put in in there and buy a big block of ice to set it next to it, try somebody doesn't break into your car still

into the dry ice. Yeah yeah, but it's all about yeah I could And actually his his incentive system is pretty sensible at the crypt by the way, No, I mean, I agree, like there's something to be said about having a you know, some sort of drink or amazing at the end when you got back, But that should not pre date pre eminent what's the word I'm looking for. It should not take precedence over taking reasonable water and food supplies with ney, which it seems like it did.

It I mean, I love of Pete, I went. I told you guys, I went up on Mount Taper this week, which is not in any kind of heavy clime, because I drove up most problem about an hour and a half around. I didn't take water and I didn't take a granola bar because I was super close to and in the two hours that I was dinking around. By the time I got back to my car, I was absolutely famished and just exhausted and immediately went, I mean in town, thank God, went to the first food establishment

and I told you guys story. I'm sure. We went to the Grand Canyon over the summer right after crime con and I am you found a ring there? Yeah? I did find a ring there was pretty a beautiful ring. Um. But I am a wilderness e MT like survivalist. And I was wearing flip flops and had like my clutch purse and a cappuccino with me and we're walking other hand.

Now we're walking like along the rim, and it was just amazing to me the number of people who are throwing me dirty looks because there's this like little bit of a room trail where you can hop on and hop off and you're not actually going down into the rain.

But the number of people who are like clearly giving these looks where they were like, you are so underprepared for what you're gonna have to go down and rescuing, right yeah, and then like you know me knowing like actually I'm more prepared to save all of you people and you were to save me was pretty amazing. But I think Kenny was the opposite. He was doing exactly.

I was amazed when I was listening to her. It was somewhere I was reading or listening to one of his videos and he was talking about the fact that I go on hikes for so long and when I get home my toenails you're black. Started reading about that and that is that is a symptom of heavy duty runners like marathon, ultra marathon run. Ye, But yeah, it wasn't exaggerating, but but a guy to be hiking for a day or three, he's really really putting his body

under something. Unfortunately. One thing that can encourage the like mail falling off is well lack of water, but also like boots that don't fit you. Great, that could be and this is another thing. Why can he should have taken more water because he says specifically, he said, I lose thirteen pounds of body weight. Well, dude, you're not. That's not a bragging, right, you're not. You're losing. That's all waters and you need that. And that's why that

kind of thing is dangerous. I mean you might think that, hey, I'm tough, I'm bad. So okay, So can you filmed himself going into Picture Canyon where the MP is No, he goes, So he goes. He goes to Picture Canyon to the west, and as I said, it narrows, it sort of snakes around for a while, and eventually it drops back down to the deserts. Can you came out the west end? Okay? And and here is his report. Well, I did not find the cave. That is so weird. I mean, I thought for sure I was just gonna

be able to find it. Um, I remember being fairly easy. Who knows. But I am at the mouth of the canyon there. I'm just now coming out. And now I have to take a big left hand turn and walk all the way back to my truck, which is a long, hard trip because I've got a lot of up and down to do. That's it. I'll talk to you when I get back to my truck. Bye bye. So disappointment. Kenny didn't give up. He actually actually had plans to go back out there again. He actually posted somewhere on

YouTube this is not too long before he left. I said, I'll be going this weekend. I'll be aking Sola for three days. I will cross through the same canyon where I found the cave. If I don't find it again, I will just continue hiking over mountain after a mountain to the north of the canyon. I dare any of the people that like to run their mouths on here to join me. My hats are My hats are brutal

on the body. And and he talks about his fingernails turning, talking about his toails falling black and falling off and all that stuff. Um but and and uh and he says he really wants to go find that m cave again. I just really last I didn't comment on YouTube. Yeah, I just really do love all of the guys who

or ladies. He's usually guys though, unfortunately just in no in in life who think that black toenails and depriving themselves of water and stuff is some sort of signed manly Yeah to our literally tens of listeners who are going to undertake this kind of don't take the water, take the food. Don't think that you depriving yourself. It's better for you to come back with extra water. Absolutely. And by the way, if the water is too heavy, it's weighing you down, drink it. Drink it. Yeah, just

try the just is also for context. One thing that we missed through this is we keep talking about the M Cave. We've got Kenny's description. Kenny's description of M Cave is not this giant monumental cave man height. I think it was in the text, but if we haven't emphasized, it's not a giant thing. Yeah, yeah, it's it's about you know, man hit or anything. And he finds somebody there.

A lot of people mentioned this too in the comments on YouTube, that well, g this this marker, he found it, He found the MK but these are little ones that are maybe a foot or two tall. Yeah, he finds other M caves that you would have to I don't think even I don't even I really honestly, I don't think a person would fit in any There's a lot of cave entrances in that area that look like a capital M if you bend the definition of a capital M to suit what you're looking at is that, Yeah,

it could look like many letters of the alphabite. Oh and there's also this is an a side. There's that one that looks like kind of a kind of a diagonal slit with the eyes. And you saw that one. Yeah,

I don't love that one. You don't like that was actually not that bad when you yeah, I mean yeah, watching it in the videos, but if you watch it without the sound on it, which I did the first time, it's like silence, there's no close caption or anything, and you just see this like it's almost like a horror movie. Hands over, it's a slit with things that look like eyes. You're just like, but then you listen and you understand

it's not it's not what that is. But these these guys that went up there later on and did look, they zoomed in on that, and then they decided that they said it was bird poop on something. Yeah, it's something. It appeared that the white eye things were multiplying multiple videos. It appeared that there was more as time went on, what appeared to maybe it probably was guano. Yeah, that was probably a shifting landscape, probably at least one lash flood in the middle of the winter. Well, I just

talked about the white spots. So Kenny, So Kenny, Like I said, he went out. Yeah, and so on November ten, he found his girlfriend share On left a message saying he was heading back to the sheep range for another go. He was going to spend a couple of nights out there. Uh, and he was going to find that damn cave. Yeah. Weirdly though, he didn't take his video camera. No, he didn't, but I you know, some people have made some things that something some out of that. He did take his gun,

but he did not take the movie camera. But I suspect that because he was going out for an overnighter, he had to take more provisions, had to take a sleeping bag in his tent, etcetera. Probably wanted to save a little weight, and so I'm not surprised he left the movie camera behind. You think he can get the impression that his camera would have been that big of a camera or that much weight. No, I get that

his bulk in a pack. I totally understand him. As you guys know, I am currently in the process of course when this releases, this will be after the act. But figuring out how to get about eight or nine days worth of clothes into a pack. But still it's not that big of a thing. And there's no weight to that camera in his tripod in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, but and maybe this is like better served in theories. But when you're going out every ounce,

absolutely it does. It does, especially if you're doing over water. Well, but but he might have decided at that point, actually it's better for me to take the water than the camera. I wish or the gun replaces the camera in ounceage. And yes, it's like obviously we would be happier now, but but maybe not because his camera may have never been found. There's only one thing that ever got found, but we'll talk about that. But yeah, that's but it would have been great if the camera been found, and

if it was found footage like Blair Witch projects. Yeah, so it's like it said, I've never been so scary as Kenny going, I've never been so thirsty because I don't actually all joking aside, Yeah, I didn't mind watching any of Kenny's videos. That would be the video that I absolutely would not watch. If it was the end of Kenny. That's the kind of thing that you don't ever as as you being want to have. I like Kenny, I'm not would put it on the internet. Oh yeah,

for sure. Yeah. And I'm not happy if Kenny didn't he die, which some people think he did. Some people have their their theories that maybe he didn't. We're gonna talk about that in a minute, but let me But so when he when he was reported missing, of course he didn't come back. A little local search and rescue team Red Rocks Search and Rescue. Yeah, they made four expeditions I believe out there. They coned Picture Canyon and

Joey a Canyon looking for him. They tracked him from where his jeep was up to the abandoned mind shaft and they found his phone and nothing else there. And this is the mind shaft we talked about earlier, that very good line shaft where his video began, where it started the first and they packed him as far as they found the phone, but the track ended there, and

so that's it. They searched. They found no trace of Kenny ever, not a stitch of clothing or you know, a candy rapper, nothing, Uh, he looks to be gone for good. So that our mystery here is what the hell happened to Kenny? But first, before we talk about

what happened to Kenny, let's take a break. Salt, cellulose, vitamins, minerals, fish oil, fish meal, chicken fat, chicken digest brewers, east whole in seed, soybean holes, sugar, beet, pulp, barley, brown rice, soyer meal, oats, long pig meal, what's long pig meal? If you are into knowing what's in your food, not long pig try our x bar. Our x bar is a whole food protein bar made from a few simple ingredients,

all which they have a purpose. Egg whites for protein, dates to bind, nuts for texture, and in the interest of full transparency, all the core ingredients are labeled right on the front of the package. No bs with eleven delicious varieties, all of which are gluten free, soy free, dairy free, and free of any added sugar, artificial colors, flavors, preservatives, or fillers. You can actually taste all of the ingredients. I've had a couple of the flavors actually at this point,

peanut butter, peanut butter chocolate. I really like peanut butter. They're really really good. I have been snacking on them all the time, and they're actually replacing meals from you because I'm lazy. So if you want to give them a try to, you can get off your first order at our xbar dot com slash sideways and using the promo code sideways at check out. That's r xbar dot com slash sideways, primo code sideways off your first order because long pig, you don't want to know what that is.

And we're back. Well, let's go to our first sory. Um, So our first sory is this whole thing is a hoax? Could be? Yeah, and this guy that's in the well, it kind of does. There's some reasons why there's there's people out there questioning this story. Um, whether it's Kenny even really existed or if you really disappeared, because maybe somebody just wanted to start a little internet legend. Yeah, and this thing has to become sort of a minor. It's not as big as say Moura Murray, but it's

still a fairly kind, fairly decent following up. For one thing, there's no there's almost no. I just wouldn't say no. There are actually a two whopping hole two stories about this in the Las Vegas Press, and they were done by one TV station, which is the local NBC affiliate ks n V New three, And they've got two stories on their website about this, and it seems a little strange, uh.

And I looked at the websites of the two major Las Vegas newspapers, which are The Review Journal and The Sun, and their websites have no stories at all regarding Kenny's disappearance. I actually called them up just to check, because a lot of websites have crappy search features, right, and so I called them up and they confirmed that they have never done a story about Kenny Beach ever. Actually not really not really, well, I guess not, but but a

lot of people are wondering about this. He does have a name is page that's a national Missing and Unidentified Persons just so the name of page would seem to give us some sort of authenticity, because I've heard that they tend to be Yeah, that has to be submitted by law enforcement, I'm thinking also, But first of all, the influence is on the page is very skimpy, well, extremely minimal, if we're being really totally honest. Here, most nameless pages are somewhat like a vague description of a

person and like where they were maybe last seen. And that's that. Yeah. But here's the other thing is that if you wanted to create an Internet legend and you're clever, you could create a really beautiful copy and and totally spoof the name is page and have people thinking it would show up on web searches and stuff. This is just hypothetical, And so that's and so again I'm questioned

work I also wouldn't. Yeah, I mean, I think it'd be easier to fake a human and report it to men than it would to be spoof a names account. But whatever, maybe that's maybe that's that's another way where you could hack in and just plant some spans because we've talked to I mean, you know you're gonna talk

about this in a second. But like his girlfriend may or may not be real, yeah right, me may not be real human or or her Internet presence may not so it might not be her talking, right, And so it's it's it's that sort of possible pity of this person who was his quote unquote girlfriend reported him missing, but maybe him that reported him missing and he was a real person, but he's not actually missing, not actually, while he might have moved, he might have skipped down,

but he's not actually. Uh no, I really legally speak, how are you pronoun? I'm going to share, but but anywhere? Yeah, I did. I did check with the Las Vegas Police Department though, and it turns out that it turns out that they actually do have an open case well for Kenny, So it's real apparently. I talked to a detective Danny at Missing Persons. He said, yeah, he really did exist, he really did disappear, and he confirmed also the shary

on as a real person. Okay, so it like everything I just said, the hoax is not a hope, it's not a hoax. Yeah. And after the lack of news coverage, I talked to this woman who was the librarian at the Sun newspaper and she said, well, in last Vegas, people disappearing is not considered newsworthy in Vegas. For sure, that's true. I mean, if you just said, yeah, there's just so, it's so. And even though a lot of people are suspicious. Now I do briefly want to talk

about Sherrian's Twitter account. Yeah, because you reached out to me about this. I men, yeah, and she is a person who exists on Twitter. Kenny doesn't exist on Twitter as far as I can tell. But her first three tweets were just spam, like actual literal spam, and there were only so she's only got eight tweets in the existence of her account that are public, I guess. And so the three year or spam, and the other five are to this guy named Eric the Hiker. Yeah, did

you look at these? I don't know. I didn't know. Very yeah, never Actually very first one is just like Eric the Hiker, Hey, it's noon. You should have checked in by now. What is going on? And then the next one is like, Eric, this isn't funny check in, And the next one is like, Eric, if you don't

check in in an hour, we're reporting you missing. So it seems and I didn't do any research into Eric the Hiker because actually it turns out Eric Hiker is a totally defunct count and Twitter is one of the websites that doesn't let the don't let the archive crawled, so it could be that Kenny was actually Eric. I think, No, I don't, because it was it was a couple of years later, it seems that in Yeah, so it's a

couple of years later. But I will say that it is kind of interesting that she is connected with another hiker that may or may not have gone missing. She's the hiking black widow. But again, but again, you know, in Las Vegas, especially in that kind of area, it's not weird that people go missing. No, no, not at all. Nevada, it's not weird. Yeah. As far as far as Eric

the hiker, he he was probably just a troll. I think that because what happened is he posted this guy posted the comments on the video on the video on YouTube and said basically, hey, I'm gonna go up there and I'm gonna go looking for him. I'm gonna go like this weekend or something like that. I'm gonna find the m K. I'm gonna find Kenny's remains or whatever.

And so somebody clued her in on at something, and somebody, well somebody clued her in on and so she she tweeted the guy just said, hey, dude, check in, be sure to check in. Let's know that you're back safe and and uh and and she never he never replied, and it was probably just a troll because he had to said. He deleted his Twitter account right after that, so I think he was just trying to get people concerned. I'm sure he never actually even went up there, but

that was it for her tweeting. But I gotta I gotta say, there's a lot of people out there who have Twitter accounts and never actually tweet. I mean, I've got a Twitter account and I don't actually tweet. I know that I never had a Twitter account and I don't tweet, but I intentionally didn't create one. Yeah, but there's some interesting stuff that I didn't have time to dive into. But there's some like Yahoo answers questions where it's like Eric the Hiker and picking bad men with

like an online dating situation. Yeah, I mean it's maybe that's where Eric got his name from. Well, but so there's some kind of weird stuff around that that I like, frankly, I like I said, I didn't necessarily have time to dive into, but it's Erica Hiker is like a weird name. Yeah, I mean, it's a weird thing that's been happening on the Internet for just like a very small timeframe around that whole situation. But yeah, I mean, it is interesting

that she was tweeting at this person. Eight tweets, five of them are at this person who may may not existed and may or may not have been going after finding Kenny's body, probably did may have been an internet troll. It's totally possible. I mean, Ken m is the thing which you guys may or may not know about on the Internet who's like a professional internet troll who just says the stupidest things you could possibly ever say on the Internet. And that's like what he does on the Internet.

Does he make a living doing this? I don't know, But I wouldn't recommend anybody looks at No, I wouldn't either, But I don't know. I don't really know really where the whole situation comes in. And I don't know either, And I would agree that it's it's weird and kind of feels like a hoax. It does, it does. Sharon's does a lot of commenting on this video, replies to a lot of people, and you've gotta wonder, is this

really her? Is it's just Kenny somewhere out there. Maybe Kenny disappear to move to Atlantic City and he's out there impersonating his ex girlfriend replying to people on YouTube because he knows that she doesn't ever go on you. Yeah, he has her password. People who just completely reject the Internet, and I don't blame them a lot of the more, even more than that, it's you know, things like you know, as we said, Joe has a Twitter account that he

never ever uses. Maybe Steve you or I can fake his password and log in, and it turns out, actually Joe has been super active on Twitter in the last five years, but he doesn't know because he never uses it. I probably had to go out there and take a look. See what's It's possible that his ex girlfriend could have had these accounts and that she wasn't using them, and he knew that she wasn't using them, and so he did it's a opportunity, or he created the accounts of

so like. For example, the her Twitter account was created October, right about the same time he posted those four videos, And you asked me to look that up, and it turns out I can't find out. Yeah, I know. I wanted down to the exact date in October one once she signed up. You know, it would have been really interesting if it was October seventeen, perfect. Okay. So that's the other thing to point out though, is that it's one of the things that really gets people going is

Kenny uploads multiple videos on the same day. He's selling his house video, his Shark Tank videos, and I think his MK video they all went up on the same day. Selling the house want went up about five weeks before September, early September, and but all the other four they all went up on Okay, four of the go up on the same day, which is which is weird. Now. I get that there's there are people who just figure out how to do it until they just dump it all in.

But that's a red flag to a lot. That's not what I was going to say. I was going to say, it's crazy to me that he kept saying I'm going to sell my house with me, whether or not it was as a maintenance guy who just worked there or whatever, while he apparently had this super serious girlfriend that maybe he could have gone and lived with instead. He because that was no, you don't think so, no, No, I mean, I flesh out what you're saying. I'm I'm just saying

I just interpret what you're saying. Tell me what you're saying. It seems like Sharion Scharion. I don't know how we're saying her name. They were serious, I guess they were boyfriend girlfriend. I would I would be willing to affirm that they were serious enough to be dating, to be dating, and for her to be really concerned about him online. Okay, but that that is an easy thing to be in in the early two thousand's early to where are you going? I want to before I make jumps, I want to.

I'm just saying that it seems crazy to me that he felt like he needed to sell his house, plus him still living there, um, but so he has the backup of Okay, But that's the only thing I'm say is that I really, based on what I've seen with Kenny and guys that I've known like him, there's male pride. He talks about how he built this house, how he did everything with this house in four years old. So yes, so there is the I built this, this is my thing.

I can't give up this thing and then go live on somebody else's um handouts that I can't just I just can't slub around. Yeah, I think that. I mean that's why I was. I wasn't I don't think that he would do that. But I also don't necessarily think she was a real person. But that's why I don't think that I think they were. That is super serious. I don't know how serious it were. I think she was. She is a real person as far as I know that, as far as you know, is her Internet presence really here?

I'm not sure. So I guess the first theory was that no, yeah, it's definitely not. Yeah, he definitely disappeared. He was definitely a real human who also definitely disappeared. Yeah, ok, yeah, So that leaves us with some other theories that are out here. One is he just went out there, got lost out of exposure, thirst whatever. You can't just take

no water and like a single bar. Yeah no, I'm sure you never took some more provisions for his overnight or than Yeah, but even that, like if if we're going to just extrapolate out from what he took on his day hike to what he would take on his night hike, I also think people very often vastly underestimate what a desert's going to be like at night, And it did not seem like at he Kenny had actually spent time out there overnight before. That's great, that's great

for him. Yeah, but you know, the things to consider in the desert are those flash freezes or flash floods that can come and go with almost no evidence whatsoever. And and Devin brings up a great point, what is the do you remember, Joe, I don't remember the name of the guy who puts the Finding Kenny video up?

Remember his name? Yeah, So they make so if you watch the MK video and then you watch the hour long Finding Kenny to video, they very They start talking about the fact that they can tell in the time since they've been out there, which is there's been flooding and the train is massively change. So I mean, it's it's very easy though that Kenny said, oh I think

it's here. He does the MK video. He then gets home uploads this and realizes, oh, you ding dong, you got turned around because the terrain changed and you should have hung a left at Alburquerque instead of a right

at Alburquerque. And so he goes in that other direction, but of course he's told everybody this way, and then he gets lost and it's not where The whole reason that I earlier was trying to bring up the fact that they were finger canyons is that those are only formed by flash flood Those are crazy dangerous to wander

through through flood season. And Kenny did not. While maybe he survived a couple of nights out, he did not strike me as the kind of person who would know better than to camp at the bottom of a canyon at any time, because there's there is no safe time to pitch a tent at the bottom of a canyon, because there's always the chance of a flood to come. And if you've watched some of those flash flood videos

on YouTube, they're scary. I mean it's it's like thirty seconds of somebody filming where suddenly, you know, you go from ankle deep to chest deep water. And if if he had, for whatever reason, pitched a camp at the autom of the canyon, and the thing about it is is it all depends on the weather. I don't know. I assume the search and rescue guys had checked the weather conditions in the private private the previous second rainfall. Yeah, But and you would assume that they would have found

a body at some point. They would have found I mean, not just a body, but a sleeping bag. But also, but that's also the difficulty. Let's let's just say, Okay, let's just hypothetically say that Kenny is completely unaware of where he's pitching his tent and the conditions. Let's just let's just make that as an overarching assumption. Here covers like the next five theories. Well but no, but where I'm going here is all of his gear and him are in his tent, flash flood hits. He doesn't get

out of the tent. If you watch the m Cave two video, they talk about the fact that it is loose gravel six ft deep. Okay, well, that means that if Kenny has staked his tent down and now it is now six ft under gravel, Search and Rescue wouldn't be able to detect that when they got there, because they can't. I don't know if I don't know if they brought any cadaver dogs with them on some of their searches. I think they did. I don't know. I mean, I have no idea what they brought. But I'm just

saying it's you would think that they were. For example, you know, if if you know that Kenny was planning and going up there and crawling into a cave. So it's a reasonable assumption that Kenny's dead body is inside a cave. I would much rather rather than having a crawl into every single hole that, Yeah, I would much rather bring a cadaver dog. That would that would be well.

But you know, if they not one available, I don't know, you know, and if the dog, but they probably should bring based on the terrain, tortoise because I could ever, tortoise is much more suited for that. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of possibilities. I know you have listed on your script, so many different possibilities of

different possibility. Just something bad happened, and it's possible under one overwatching theory, which is he I mean, it's okay, bit by a snake, bit by snake, or line or broke his ankle and just died of exposures, or or had an accident, or let's go back too quickly. He got lost. Um, so he said he didn't bring a map for a compass, although because he was a hardcore Yeah.

Although frankly, after spending time looking at the videos and looking at aerials and looking at tomographic maps, I'm fairly familiar with the area and I think it would be hard to get lost there. I disagree with that because no, I mean from Picture Canyon, everything is just all uphill. So if you get you get a little disoriented, just turn around and go any time getting lost. See, that's the thing is that I think. But I don't think easy.

And I understand that if he had done a certain let's just say he did a certain loop on a regular basis of a certain series of loops, so he is familiar with the surroundings that he should see. But if he goes in a direction unintentionally and suddenly the skyline changes and he's not exactly sure, I can see him being the guy of guy that says it's fine,

I'll push on. I'll see something soon, particularly on that if there had been kind of flooding or any kind of terrain change in the month between when he went out and videotaped it and the next time, definitely that can change a lot. It can. But here's the deal is that here's why I don't think it happened unless unless I agree. I don't think the Sheep Range is like this long finger of of sort of mountains in in a flat desert, and so if he had gotten

totally lost. All he had to do was turned west, and it's easy to find west even without a compass, just use the son. All I got to do is turn west and walk about a mile or two, and he'd be bamed out an open desert. Again. Yeah, and I don't think it's would be possible unless he was so so disoriented from dehydration, was just totally not functioning. But other than that, I don't see you could possibly get lost in that mountain well, and even if you were lost, you just climb up to the hill and

then look. I mean I I yeah, I'd let me rephrase that you could get lost, but not for very long. I would agree with you totally. It's not like a weird mountain range in a forest where you cannot you know, even at the top of a hill, you're still in forest and you can't figure it out totally get your bearings easily. And I would agree with that totally. Yeah, So as far as getting lost, I don't think that happened,

but of course an accident. But even then, and even if you watch Kenny's video, you sort of get the feeling that Kenny is sort of an accident waiting to happen. Yeah, I would agree with that. But again I think that the search and rescue probably would have found him, there would be some something, because I do believe that he

probably knew kind of where he was. But that was the kind of eerie thing about this whole story, I guess, was that he always seemed to know where he was, and he did he knew, well, he seemed, I believed him. And maybe maybe he didn't. Maybe he did, right, I'll allow for the fact that he didn't, But I believed that he knew where he was, and I believed pretty deeply that he kept saying, Oh, it's weird, I should

have found this cave by now and I haven't. And that, I think is the thing that attracts people to this case the most is that it seems like he knew where it was. It just wasn't there. Suddenly, Yeah he was. It was somewhere in Picture Canyon. But again, that's the thing about the terrain changing in those guys walking through saying, look look at this, like this was six feet higher

last time I was here. Yeah, and soge and they showed they showed things where you could see the mouth of the little inlet caves, not that they weren't deep caves, but six or eight feet deep, and you could see they had changed. Um, they showed video of them going down those Finger Canyon ravines where it was giant boulders and those seemed to be different. Which also, by the way, this is a weird decide and devitull probably like this is. Do you remember the game Jack and Daxter on the

PlayStation Remember that? Okay, well, yeah you slated. But they had these series of going through canyon areas and they had all these round boulders and they looked exactly like the Finger canyons in the videos that Kenny and then the other guy put up on. Yeah. Yeah, it was the weirdest thing. Wait, I I imagine there should be some little ferrety guy running around, and then it figured out it was Jack and Daxter. There is some little

ferity guy running around in there. You're just not seeing him. He's an actual ferret. Probably. What are the other theories, there's so many of them. We had an accident. Another Another favorite theory out there is that he came across some sort of criminal activity, criminal or federal activity or secret government activity, was was killed for it. For discovering that because they're they're burying the rubber alien body suits

out there. Yeah bodies. Yeah. Yeah. It's you know, that kind of that kind of thing about whenever somebody disappears, that's always floated the theories he came across, he came across some drug dealers and they murdered him and and buried his body. You know, Well, it's always a favorite theory or some kind of other nefarious or other nefarious. Well, but that that that theory sucks. Well in this case, it certainly. It usually sucks, actually, but in this case

it especially sucks. And why would you go all the way out there to commit crimes? I mean, by the way, what crimes would you commit anyway? I mean, if you're gonna have people marching across the desert hauling drugs, let's just say that they're they're mules. You're not gonna do it through the middle of the Nevada desert. You're gonna do it on the damn Mexico border, so you can get him from because that's where it comes from. You

don't make them all the way in Nevada. Now, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to that, to go out in the middle of nowhere like that and up into the mountains to do a drug deal and caulling a body out there. That would be a lot of work. And just like you said, ass and I in a really dumb way to get rid of a body. This carpet sucks. Why haven't been cat packing this carpet for five months? Because nobody will ever find him? Yeah, yeah,

it's so the whole idea. But but again there's lots of people out there who I al would like to float this there, and of course the case here, same with the secret government activity. Uh well, again it's very close to the an activity in an Ellis Air Force Range, and of course are fifty one. But of course the area fifty one is not actually right next door to where it was days a way, It's hundred thirty miles away,

but close enough via canyon and cave. Okay, well, well also this is uh there supposedly is a huge network of underground tunnels running under that whole test area there. Yeah, that's what I've heard. Well, that's how they get the bodies in and out. Yeah. Well, but also you know that's where you shuttle the presidents if nuclear warn't comes. Yeah, I mean I wouldn't be surprised at all if there actually were some some underground tunnels in that area. Oh,

I feel confident. Conspiracy theories are not. I feel confident there are there are, you know, but I don't think they extend all the way in down into the sheep range or to the M shaped cave, although you never know. Maybe. Um, we also have the the the Secret Services Mountain Lion Brigade. Let's just keep going escape and by that I mean the actual mountain line no, no, no, yeah, yeah, it could have been uh and it could have been. Another one is that he actually found the cave and it's

deadly secret, which had have been a mountain lion. Yeah. And um, and and but there were there's a couple of like out there in the interway. There's here's a couple of good ones. I don't want to repeat all of them. There's way too many of them. Uh. Let's see, let's see. Here's one. This is posted by Avenging Demon. Um who said that and when he found that these are guys who said that he found the cave. Uh, Avenging Demon says, and I percent that he found a

slavery camp. The vibration shows. And remember he said his body was vibrating as he tried to get close to it. The vibration shows his body tried to warn him about others pains. So when he went in he found something he wasn't supposed to find. The person who warned him this was a person on who on YouTube actually posted a warning to him to not go out and look for the cave. And and this person has been talked

about endlessly since then. Okay, back to the text. The person who weren't probably escaped from there, but could not say more. So, if you find the cave, if you find Kenny, that's avenging demons comment. Okay, hippy, Yeah yeah, Earth has fields and we all share those fields. Dude. Yeah, okay, so that's one. Here's another one I was gonna say. I mean, either like, yeah, you can, you can be upset about that or not, but I don't think it applies to this. Yeah you want to read, okay, so

you can read the comment from hops Hopkinsville Hopkinsville Goblin. Great, Okay, Hopkinsville Goblin says I still think about this sometimes, especially about the strange lights. At sixteen minutes, I was listening to Coast Coast am tonight and heard a story about these two guys who were quad biking. I don't know what that is. That's around a little four wheel motorcycle

kind of things. Yeah, so a t V s. Yeah, two guys who were quad biking around some limestone caves in that area the Navy used to store dehydrated food and as a fallout shelter, and drove straight through a hologram where they ran into two reptilian humanoids. One of them had some kind of weapon and shot them, but apparently they aren't allowed to leave their caves because of some agreement with the military. I doubt this guy is still alive, but if you are looking for him, make

sure you have weapons. His weapons spelled with the Z. There are a lot of weird periods and bad syntax, and I've seen a lot worse on the end, and I have to say I have to, but there was I just read it verbatim. I'm sorry everyone. No, No, that's fine, you did it. Justice got a good name. I like Hopkins, fille Goblin, that's a good one. We did. Yeah. So anyway, I don't know, do you guys have any more uh discussion about him coming across the illicit government. No,

I think we should just talk about like this final Yeah. Well, we got a couple of other sories. These are a little more down to earth, one of which is that, well Kenny committed suicide. His girlfriend's Sharon's actually has stated she thinks he committed suicide because he was out of work.

He's been living off his savings, was trying to sell his house, as we saw from the video, and apparently things just weren't working out the way he had hoped, and according to his girlfriend, he was running out of money. It was getting despondent over the situation. Although I don't know, I mean, I think Kenny could have just gotten himself another job maybe, and you know maybe. I mean that's what most people do when they when they're quote unquote

business fails. Yeah, they have to go, they have to go be somebody else's employee. Yeah, that's usually what happens. Uh. And she said also that he had told her once that if he ever decumments suicide, they would never find his body. Apparently mentioned question. Yeah. So in the reading, it talks about the fact that when he was a very young man, his own father had taken his life. I believe he was the one who found the body or another family member. But I want to ask, where

does that information come from? Does that come from Sharion or does it come from another source? You know, I don't know. I never found out exactly where that. I don't think that it must have been somewhere from Sharion, but I've never seen it actually attributed to I haven't either, I haven't really mentioned it earlier, but I don't know. I don't want to be the jerk here, but it makes me question this theory. If we don't even know that her accounts are truly her, it then becomes a

single source of information about this person. Well, and how reliable. I mean, Here's what I'll say is that we all share accounts, and none of us really have independent accounts on social media outside of the show, So pretty solidly, if one of you happens to go missing, I'm just gonna say it was a weird suicide thing. Yeah, she's going to kill us. She's so going to kill us. Yeah she has joked about it for years. But they're

right there, madam, and jury is the admitiative guilty. Yeah, Well, the good news is I'll still have control over this, so it doesn't matter, no, I just I can understand the that whole. I don't know impetus that the well, yeah,

I mean that would be obviously her or not. I mean, you know, the police, if they, if they care to investigate, I'm not sure if they really looked into this that hard, they could probably look at things like financial records and stuff and actually learn a few things about his financial state. I'm sure there were other people besides his girlfriend and Neil, and he had a daughter, Victoria, probably a whole lot

from There's nothing to find on her. She is quoted in one news still right, But I vaguely feel like that in and of itself is something in that he

must have said something to her or they couldn't. I mean, it's possible to his daughter, it's possible they were not close, you know, but if they were close in any kind of regard, it seems like the fact that she's not speaking out and saying, my god, my father's missing, blah blah blah, that seems like it's indicative of something, something that would have been known to her prior to either a suicide or an intentional disappearance or ye, suicide. She

probably doesn't want to talk about it. Most people wouldn't, and particularly if the life insurance I'm sorry to interrupt, but particularly if if a life insurance policy has a suicide clause on it. You know, she got to pay out. That said, but if this person committed suicide, I mean no, I mean that's not great entirely possible that they were just not clot absolutely, I mean it could be that. I'm not going to call him a deadbeat dad, but

they may not have had a close relationship. Absolutely, what do you want to say about him? She's like, I didn't know the guy he was. He bothered me, that's all wet. He was my Biod's the other deal. We've already talked about this. I mean, she wasn't exactly being harassed by the press because the press. Yeah, so it's like it's not surprising that they didn't go out and score a lot of hard felt quotes from Victoria. I mean, I can go either way at the at the newspaper offices,

you know, interview the interview. I'm not gonna be all cheerful and go away. We got better things, right, And I guess I guess for me, it seems like, especially in two thousan fourteen, it's not like this was like the eighties seventies were the only way was news outlets. If it were me and it was my father who I had a close relationship with, for what ever reason, I would be raising hell all over the Internet. I

would be tweeting constantly. I would be doing some sort of internet presence to force agencies to look into his disappearance and or murder or unless whatever, unless convinced that he did commit suicide. But the other problem with that is she is one in a billion people that are trying to do the same thing. Sure, I mean, my bio dad died and there was there was literally nothing

on the Internet when he died. It was I mean, do you guys know this a couple years ago and it wasn't under a Neferius circus, but there was a single blip from the newspaper and that was it. Sure, I could have screamed it every news agency and they've been like, we don't where we going here, though, guys know. So here's what I'm going with this is that like Twitter and social media, you or a great tool, especially as recently as two fourteen and the years since then.

So if the daughter or even if his girlfriend I thought, really thought there was some kind of nefarious something that happened, he would be on their Twitter account that we found would be there. It wouldn't even be like, oh, I went crying to the police officers and they said no, so I said nothing. If they really cared and thought that something really bad had happened to this person into the suicide theory, then I don't know what I'm buying into.

I'm just saying that if they thought that it warranted more investigation, they would be really they would, Yeah, because like you said, like your bio dad died, but it wasn't under an uferious circumstances. I have a total of utter confidence that if you thought it was under nefarious circumstances, you would be over everything, tweeting at whoever you right, posting wherever you could, raising as much social media presence as you could. And you're not even a millennial. But

I just like that to me. Is what I'm saying is, I don't necessarily buy into any of these theories, but I think that if people who were close to him thought that something nefarious had happened to him, either it was not a hoax or either Yeah. Either the theory is like if any theory other than it was a hoax or they knew something about what happened to him, they would be raising a lot of stink on the internet because it was not It's not as though it happened.

So so that was not that far along ago, no, it so you know that that would lend a little support to the suite. That's all I am saying. I guess I know that was a long way. That was a long way around, okay, but this was the sheep range is a big range. We'd work away all way around it. No, that's okay, not a problem. But but anyway, if he did commence suicide, that's a good way to do it because you know, besides uh, you know, insurance.

I mean, some people maybe would like to find a way to do it but not leave behind the stigma of committing suicide. So if you'd go off looking at yeah, and and and go off instead and just you know, get lost and disappear, advantage because they know in a way that Kenny Kenny telegraphed in a sense, whether intentionally or not, a telegraphed how his death very likely was going to happen. Uh. If if you believe that he died,

I let me rephrased that a little bit. If Kenny wanted to kill himself but convinced people that he died of some sort of natural cause, eaten by a mountain lion, or had an accident because he was you know, or whatever, he telegraphed that whole thing with his video. So if he was planning on killing himself, then the video he might have actually been planning at the same at the time that he made the video. So are you saying

that it's basically a rough draft suicide note? Is that that's what you're saying, or No, not a suicide note at all. It's a it's a red herring. I mean, okay, yeah, you know he's telling us, he's convincing us that had happened this way. I went out there by myself, I was careless, took no water, I wasn't an idiot, and I died. Yeah, that's not what really happened. Soide, Yeah, it's yeah, and I got it. I get it. I get it. If you hadn't that from what you wrote that, Yeah,

that's that's what he's saying. Alternately, he was, you know, he left to start a new life, same thing, and started all of these other accounts, potentially reported himself missing to sniff people off the case. Yeah, I mean, yeah and so and so that those are the two possibilities there. Let's let's say, for example, he committed suicide. Now, so

how how did he do it? Obviously, if you want to commit suicide, you don't want the body to be found because you don't want people knowing you commit suicide. You committed suicide, and there's going to be evidence, so you gotta where do it? What do you do? Well, what I think he might have done, and this is consistent with the evidence, because they lost his trail at

the mine shaft. So what he could have done was parked his jeep at the base at the south end of Joe May Canyon, hiked up to the mine, dropped his phone, and then retraced his path back down to his cheap and then at that at that spot where his park that's not just at the mouth of Joe May Canyon, it's also to the east is it's there's what's called Blackgate Canyon. So you could have just walked up black Black Gate Canyon a couple of miles found it, right,

Yeah it was. Yeah, it's found at the south end of Joe May Canyon. And then his phone was found in Patrier Canyon. No, it's found in Joe at the north end, at the north end of Joe May Canyon, which is very close to just south the quarter miles south of wild Horse Passa. So he walks back all the way back down, walks up black A Canyon if you and and kills himself. I don't think they ever looked up there. And I called those guys and left him a message asking them, you know, the comedy back

and they never did, so never. You know. The other thing that that this now leads me to ask the question, of course now after the fact that it's too late to look into it, is do we know when the

last time his cell phone was used or pinged? Because it could be entirely possible that he, if your theory is right, he went up there the day before that and dropped his phone next to the mine and then walked back and then went home, slept, revitalized, came back and then parked in the spot where his jeep was sound to then have an entire day to walk in the opposite direction. Yeah, that did occur to me too, But I believe he made a call from that same

phone that morning to his girlfriend to leave that message. Yeah. Yeah, And so a lot of it depends on how through the investor stigation was. I mean, if he had gone out the previous day, dropped his phone, gone to the store and bought a disposable phone and made the call from there or something, Yeah, the disposable you could have done something like that. And if nobody's looking into it too deeply, maybe they wouldn't have figured out that he

actually made it from the wrong phone. Yeah, And I mean I would think that you did it all the same day he was. Yeah, yeah, And I would say. The other thing is is like I don't necessarily know how deep that mine is right there? Oh you can

see the bottom, Yeah, it's not. And they apparently ran cameras down the mind where his phone was found, and they didn't find Yeah, funny, nobody volunteered to go down there in person, but yeah, they they checked it out pretty thoroughly, and ab certainly I was sitting after a little while, you know, if you keep coming back checking it, and you can just come back and just give it a little sniff, you can probably tell if there's a body down there a certain a little a little certain

amount of time, you'll know. Okay, Well they did check, they did check the mind shaft. Although I guess if you really, really, you know, Kenny could have taken a shovel and gone down there to the bottom and dug himself out a little a little side passage and emburied himself in there and again or a flood. Yeah, but the suicide thing, I think it's a real possibility. I

think you have. And there's another way too, from where the mine is, and I think I pointed it out to you guys already on the topographic map, if you go to east, there's a gulch that goes about a mile and a half and it goes to a pass because the sheep the Sheep range, there's it's basically a long ridge that goes north to south and there's this one. There's a few passes through it. There's just one pass.

It's just due east of the mine shaft. So he could have gone up up the side of the mountain through the pass over to the east side of the Sheep Range, which I'm just about sure they did not search for him because they were again they had they had every reason to believe he was somewhere in Picture Canyon probably that's where they looked. And so he could have gone to the east side of the range, hidden, found a hiding hole, killed himself and that's it. Uh.

And so there's a suicide thing, I think. And if Kenny did kill himself, I could see the appeal to a guy like Kenny. Frankly, Kenny was a little bit of a ham. I could see the appeal to a guy like Kenny of posting this video is saying yes, I'm gonna go up. Yeah, because he's looking for the cave. Remember the cave was super creepy, remember that it was. And I could see where from his point of view, he leaves his mystery behind. So of all of his inventions,

himself is his greatest invention. All of the other things he invented were squat Yeah. But you know, on the other side, and other people have noted this, he seems kind of like an upbeat, cheerful person noticed not a desponded, suicidal person. But but we've talked about this before that that is not always an indicator of what the internal struggle of somebody is. Yeah, and so it's just so suicide. I think. I think it that some that's had some

pretty decent support here. H and as there's one more theor, of course, which is the staged his disappearance and went not to start a new life. I don't believe it. Yeah, well, you know it could have been the same thing. You know, I was, like I said, he drops his phone and goes back to the jeep and he pulls a bicycle or a moped out of the back of the jeep and heads off to start his new life. I kind of doubt this. I want to be Kenny is a

likable guy. Well, I think this is the thing we run into with all of these stories, is that we really just want to believe that these people whoever disappeared just disappeared on their own volition to go live a much happier life somewhere. Yeah. I mean the thing is is that if he's if he's got all his financial strife in his world at this day and age at that time, I mean we've just with two thou eight

is when the financial collapse happens. He's watched so many other people go through that, and they've all survived and they're coming out and by this time, don't people who have gone under have come out on the other side and they're doing okay. So it's not as if he's looking at I'm gonna lose my how said my world is going to turn to utter guano. It's gonna be it's gonna suck for a while, but it's gonna be okay.

And other people have have gone down that same path. Yeah, And I don't I have no idea what the real estate market was like in Las Vegas, and I'm not sure. It's just as crappy as everywhere else, but not good. Yeah, I mean it was like, I mean, it wasn't as bad as it wasn't like two thousand and eight nine, right, But it's not it's not a booming bubble economy, which I believe is probably when he began his because he had his home for four years. He might have got

that thing at the cusp of the bubble. Yeah, I don't know if he. If he did, that's really sad, poor guy. And I know a lot of people did. Yeah, but that's that's what I say. He's like, he's watched all the other people who've fallen before him get back up and survive. So well, if you can hang onto the house and the market comes back, you know, it's not like you're gonna be underwater forever. But I no,

I kind of doubt it. I think more most likely he probably did kill himself, um the And I do think, like I was I was saying before, I think he planned the video out. I think he actually planned it as a way to number one, get them to look for his body somewhere where it wasn't number one. Number two, to get people to believe he gone out there and perished of a mountain lion attack or a horrible accident or something, so that you know, people wouldn't think, oh,

he committed suicide. So I think that's probably it. And one of the things I thought was really kind of interesting is where they found the phone, because he he hikes up there, presumably again we don't know, but he accept there drops the phone and his girlfriend said, by the way that he carried these big cargo pants with you know, the the velcro pockets. Yeah, yeah, those things, and he carried his phone and those things, and she said it seemed really unlikely the phone fell out accidentally.

I'm sure. I'm sorry. I used to wear those kind of pants all the time, remember fell out that, Steve, you are the exception matter I've had. I've had cargo pants and I don't have I never had my phone fall out of him. What you're gonna say, I was just gonna say something totally different. With the number of submissions that he made too Shark Tank, yeah, he just seemed like a guy who was really searching for Internet fame. And in my mind, I guess I'm in the wrap

up phase of this episode. In my mind, this is a really super great way to get famous online, is to make of it. Used to comment on someone's viral video right to say, you're right, I've seen this too. And then when people are like people that were slamming him and getting more attention, and as soon as everyone was like, no, you haven't, he's like, you know what, screw you, I'm going to prove it. And he goes up, it never comes back. Whoops, you're right, I can't find it.

It's so weird, and then goes up and drops his cell phone. Whoops. Conveniently right there, right, I mean to me, he just and that's and it is a happier ending, I guess necessarily than it's a happier ending to say that totally fagrigated this whole thing and he's living some really happy somewhere. I'm not. I'm not willing to just grab onto the happier ending. I think that he didn't engineer his own demise, and in an Internet way, I think he accidentally engineered his own demise with his own

ill preparedness an accident. I think that I think that he just was not prepared for what he got into. And when you know, when he hit the fan, Kenny realized that he was not as good at what he thought he was, but by then it was too late

to fix the mistakes. Well, I guess here's the other thing I will say is that the number of guys on the Internet who claimed to be amazing martial artist, taekwondo samurai dudes, right, videos are not they get knocked over by a pug, right, But so I think there is a little bit of room to say Kenny could have been one of those dudes who goes out there and he's like, oh, my god, I have no water

and no food and I'm such a badass. But he's got an entire camelback full of food and water, like he's trying to represent himself as this kind of hardcore exactly exactly. We don't know that Kennedy wasn't. Don't said that, we don't know I And that's why I really think that even though I think it's possible he did go out and then just you know, have an accident or die of thirst or whatever, it is possible, I think there's an element of planning here because and it went

into the video. Like I said, all the time, he's talked about stuff like, oh, it's really hairy, it's scary, it's like danger. He does talk about time about this, dude. How many more times can you say, well, he does. But when you look at where the video began and where he left his phone, the exact same place almost yeah, no, not almost where So the video began begins at the mind. The phone is that the mind, and that is where the search for Kenny begins also, So I don't think

that's a coincidence. I think that he left it there deliberately and and he went somewhere else to you know, kill himself for whatever reason. Artist starting life. Yeah, and I choose obviously to believe because it's happier that he went off to start a new life. Well, I hope so too. I agree. I totally an amazing listener of ours and he's listening to this and going, yeah, send us some sort of cryptic email or just send us up an email. Yeah whatever, another mystery result the story

of Kenny of Beach. You probably want to send us even if you're not canny, we probably won't send us an email. We have an email account, believe it or not, which is Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. And uh,

oh my god. What else? Oh we got a web page. Yeah, web page you know thostenings are cool, right, Yeah, it's called Thinking Sideways podcast dot com where you can download our episodes and you can buy merge and there's links to all of our social media and stuff like that too, which, by the way, we are on We are on social media. We've got we're now on Instagram of course, uh, and we've got all those of cool activity going on out there, and we're on Facebook where we have a group and

a page. So you can't friend us, but you can't like our page, and you can join the group where there's lots of fun commentary and stuff going on. And let's see what else. Oh yeah, yeah yeah, streaming. Uh, we're out on a lot of streaming services, especially Stitcher, who's our favorite right now. We like Stitcher because you know, hey, we just do all right, and we are, of course,

speaking of Stitcher. We are on Stitcher now Stitcher Premium, which means that if you sign up and subscribe, then you get the content like four days earlier, without commercials, and also you get bonus contents like an extra episode of month, which is awesome. And uh, okay, go out to you, So go out to stitcher dot com, slash thinking, sideways. If you sign up for twelve months, you get one month free and you use the promo code sideways. Don't

forget that. Where else are we Apple? Good? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, be a subscribe, leave a comment, leave a rating. Uh al right, well that said. The only place where we're not is YouTube, but you never know, might be going looking for a cave one of these days. That's it for us until next week. Anybody you've got anything more to say here? No take a hike Stars is the best, all right you guys Bay