Thinking Sideways: The Zip-Gun Bomber

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It's quickly far. Well, hey there, and welcome again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve, of course, joined by and Joe, and once again we bring you a mystery, a really scary one this week. Well actually in some ways, just when it's yeah, there's some there's some moments during this one man. Yeah, it's gonna make a thing twice before you do a certain thing. It's

very true. It's true because this week we're gonna be talking about a mystery that spans fourteen years and literally scared the hell out of postal customers in New York for a long time. I think that should be the tagline of our show. Scared the hell out of postal customers, makes you think twice about doing a thing. I didn't want to give away the game by saying what that thing? Right yet? Yeah? But actually used to be scared of

doing all sorts of certain things. Yes, there's a lot of certain things that are very scared we'll get you killed. This very certain thing is dealing with your mail opening package. Because we're going to be talking about the zip gun bomber. You guys have heard of that, right of course. Actually, I think a lot of people have the ubiquitous bomber. I don't know. This guy was like he never got quite the publicity at the UNI bomber. Got I was gonna say, you think of bombers at the UNI bomber

zip gun bomber? Yeah, only two? I know. I wanted to say that they felt that this guy was envious of those other big but I don't know that that's really the cases we'll find as we go through this um. But I do want to say thank you to Wesley, because Wesley is the one who suggested this story to us and wish very well played. But as with a lot of these kind of stories, for those words, you're like, oh, I'll read the first link, I read the second link

four hours later. I guess I'm covering this story. Yeah. My next week is like that too. Yeah. Um so whoever. The zip gun bomber was an individual that sent explosive packages to people in the New York area and was never caught. And so let's let's tell this story. Disclaimer here. I think we're going to probably be using the heat pronoun for the bomber because it's really a default to that, not because we don't think women can also be bombers, but just because dudes tend to like to play with

things that go boom. Dudes are like the ones who killed most people. Sorry, not all men, I know, but whatever. Anyway, the majority of yes, I will end up using the heat pronoun. Actually, I think I think we have to stay here or she every time you could say they singular, then okay, well I'll let you do that, okay, okay. So our story begins on the seventh of May two when fifty four year old Joan Kip received a package at her home in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, New York. Joan

had been a I think Joan actually was a guy. Yeah, she still was working, so she was a guidance counsel her at a local school. But she was getting ready to leave for the weekend with her husband to celebrate Mother's Day when a package arrived in that day's mail was addressed to her, and so she opened it and lo and behold, inside was a cookbook. That's so lucky. Yeah, well, and I'm okay. So presumably this as hard back as

will come to make sense soon. But she believed that this was a Mother's Day president and was she she was a mother? She was, she has she had several children, at least one son and one daughter. I don't know exactly how many children she had, but she believed that it had to be a present for Mother's Day. So she pulled and pulled it out of the box and

she opened the book. I'm guessing the plan was to see if somebody had written on the inside of the cover, like people do for for books that are gifts, somebody had actually well, I was just gonna say, I feel like every time I picked up a book, I opened it just just at least looking the inside. Yeah, I was presuming it, being that she thought it was a Mother's Day gift, that there would be some kind of writing.

But you're right, she probably may have just automatically opened it. Unfortunately, when she opened the book, it made a loud bang noise, and Joan discovered that she had been shot. Because here's yeah, because here's the thing. The book was actually a booby trap, and when she opened the front cover she sprang said trap and the book literally shot her. What. Yes, Joan was taken to the hospital, but unfortunately she died several

hours later. The report, and this this is one of those things with these kind of stories, the reporting berries. Some just say that she was shot in the torso or abdomen, and other places say that she was shot in the heart, which technically is in your to I think it's probably more shot little lower down in the gut, just because when you help, if you're going to open a book, you don't hold it up like heart level

to open it up unless you're short. There's a whole bunch of variables, and we'll talk about that, like how things get held when they're open. Well, I mean, here's the thing, though, is like this is really the reason that we need better gun control, because a book should never be able to go out and buy a gun and mail itself to the unwitting victim and shoot it. Well, that's the whole thing is that it's really just because you know, I mean, you know, you can't a book

cannot be connected to convicted of felowy. How can you know if the book is a criminal or not. You can't know, Okay, Okay. So the police, of course, they investigate, and they're stumped, and so they start investigating everyone close to the family because they've got nothing to indicate that it's you know, no evidence points to anybody outside of

the family circle. And they would initially charge Jones's son, Craig Kip, with her murder, but they could never really put a case together that was comprehensive enough that that would stand up to muster, and so that whole case fell apart, and they really didn't have anything after that. It is actually the police in the initial investigation who would name our suspect or unknown suspect the zip gun bomber. And that's based simply on the construction of what it

was that this this bomb was made of. And we need to talk about it real quick because it is it technically a bomb. Technically that's really I have gone back and forth on I think, let me, let me explain the weapon, and then people their own conclusions. Our listeners are gonna want to build one for themselves. Yeah, please do not do this. It is a very dangerous thing and you're likely to hurt yourself, if not someone else, unintentionally or maybe intentionally. But the point is, don't do this.

You're leaving out some details on purpose. Actually I know how to make I know how to make a certain explode, which is why I never't accept a gift from you. But but I don't do it. You know, I've never done it, even though I know how, because I like my hands. I have to have hands. So yeah, don't mess it out with explosive guys. So, a couple of things that we're gonna talk about here. So let's start off the first, which is what is a zip gun.

A zip gun is an improvised firearmament. In its simplest form, it's some kind of metal tube that holds a single bullet. Yeah, they're easiest ones. Then something is built into the back of that tube to strike the primer on the bullet to make a discharge off. Yea yeah, And I was

gonna say that it can they can be complex. But the simplest one I saw literally was a tube with something duct taped to it and a rubber band with a nail and a piece of metal on it to pull back like a sling shot to generate a little

force to set off a twenty two cartridge. Because the thing is rim fire cartridges, twenty two cartridge just don't have to have a good, solid direct hit to set them off the rim well, but they don't have to be a dead center hit, you know, like you like, you don't have to hit the primer perfectly to get that booger to go. And that's the point. They're easy

to fire. It's also a very low pressure around, which is another reason because to be using a cheap, crappy piece of pipe as your barrel and use a high pressure around what you're gonna blow yourself up exactly because zip guns, bomb or zip guns are not meant to be long term weapons. And as Joash said, they they will eventually wear out. Even if you build one right, they eventually wear out from the pressure and they will blow open your hands. So no, make one, No make gun.

Don't do it well, and I decided to do it. Research your ammunition to make sure it's low pressure ammo. Yeah, that's good point, or you know, just don't do it. I just don't do yeah, I like my Yeah, that's right, don't do it. Um So zip guns themselves, though, this was something that was popular back in the forties and the fifties, but of course as the price of guns came down and the volume of available guns went up, it stopped making sense. Never mind the fact that zip

guns are really only good for one round. There are some designs out there that are quote unquote multiple rounds. But it's a weird. Yeah, now that you see him in prison sometimes for jails and things, and obviously if you're in a certain situation where so you're in your military occupation, all the guns have been compass card it's time to be It's a good idea to know how to make yourself as zip guns. Oh yeah, no, did

you see that one? Um? I was reading imp about improvised munitions and I don't remember what website it was, and they were talking about somewhere in the Eastern Bloc countries and one was found that looked like a nineties no Kia cell phone, remember the old nine. Devon will probably remember this more than you, Joe, but it was the the old Nokia nine thousands something, but it was

the standard cell phone that everybody had. But if you spun the top half open and a barrel was exposed, and if you hit a certain keys on the keypad, you could fire up to four bullets. Now there's there's people that they've made him actually pursull in the US too cool little concealed gunst thing. And actually I was.

I was checking out cool zip gun designs on the webs, and course, yeah, they're most of them are crude and crappy, but there's a there's a few really cool ones that I saw too, like this one where the gun was designed as a large bolt and so at the end, where the where the where the nut, where the nut screws on, where the threads are there was a loose not just threaded on there just to make it look like, you know, something you could leave it in your toolbox,

you know, it would look like a bolt, don't look like a gun. And so that's the end where the where the barrel barrel thing is. And at the other end the part that the little hex part that yeah, that part there, that's the part that you pull out and snap and allowed to snap back in the spring load and that fires the gun. That's crazy. It was a really design genius concealment. Yes, yeah, but that's that's

not typical for a zip gun. And by the way, after point out too, this does not appear to actually be a zip gun design. Well, and that's the thing is that is the question is, okay, so this is what we're talking about zip guns, and how does this apply to what Joan Kip received. Um, Well, the book itself that she got, the book was hollowed out to allow room for the components of a zip gun, because

as Joe said, it's not really a zip contraption. Yes, it's a zip gun like contraption because inside of it, what is happening is someone has put in a short barrel er two and those barrels were apparently made from automobile breakline. Then there's at least one two caliber bullet, a couple of D cell batteries, some wires, a spring from a ballpoint pen and um and then that that

spring is attached to lid. And how this thing worked is that whoever made the bomb used the spring as a part of an electrical circuit, So it becomes a bit of an i e. D. And improvised explosive device, because what happens is when they would lift lid, the spring would move, it would complete a circuit that was

mounted to those batteries. Appears that there was a filament like a light filament, like an incandescent light filament on the back of the bullets, so that when the circuit was completed, that would generate heat which would then set off the primer, which would then set off the bullets. So it wasn't a physical strike. It was some kind

of electrical SAP. And I don't think that's the way they actually did it, because you have to, like you have to heat that two two bullet for a while to get it to cook off, and they wouldn't all go off the same time, so that's one fired at that fire, two bullets in different directions, one of which hit Jones, the one which flew off in the other direction. And so what I think he did is the filament

was actually an initiator. And there's ways you can do that if you want to make your own blasting caps. Use lightly. You use a light bulb that you've broken the glass off on, and you wrap a paper tube around it, poor black powder in there and seal off the end, and then you get yourself your blasting cap there. And so what I think he did is he had like a central little thing that he could screw two

brake lines on either end. I think what he did is he before he screwed this on, he stuffed a couple of twenties two caliber bullets into them loose, screwed them on, and then the third side before he put the initiator, and he poured gunpowder in there, placed his initiator in there, and secured it and attached the bat and attached the wires to it. And I don't think probably given more information than I ever would want to give somebody in how to light one of these devices off.

But the point is it was part of a larger circuit that would fire the bullets, and that was what made it different from your your typical zip gun is that it was electrically initiated, not not by yes, it's it is. The electrical initiation is what distinguishes this thing from what you know, the rubber band method that we

were talking about before. One thing that I will say that I read this in at least one place that I think may be a little weird is that it said that the rounds had twice the normal amount of gunpowder in them as normal, and that either means that what Joe described is correct and or the person that did this was packing their own loads and therefore had taken and made their own bullets and packed it with twice the amount of gunpowder you would normally put in.

I think that there was some confusion on that because they were saying and yeah, it's why it's it's all over the map and the way it's described. So I'm not a positive Yeah, I think there. I think that the reporters you wrote this and there was like they were said, they were there, they were double charged. And so what I took that to me after careful consideration, is that each one of those improvised barrels had to

bullets in it and also more powder. But I mean, you can't pull apart like a twenties caliber long rifle cartridge and packing twice as much gunpowder. Well, I and that's I don't I don't know how this happens. So that's why it's it's a weird bit of trivia to me. Yeah, it's not that violently impart, but that's what I think happens. He put like two bullets in each barrel, and that's what they called the double packed and they could have just been balls, you know, like like shotgun balls or

something like that. So strangely in this story, though, what happens next is nothing. For eleven whole years, nothing else happens, nothing go boom, nothing, nobody gets a package that at least this way. Yes, yes it was Kazinsky was out there, but the point is no more zip gun bombs were found until that is the fifteenth of October when our perpetrators handywork shows up again. Uh. There's a gentleman by

the name of Anthony lens Up. He is on vacation at the time with his wife there in Pennsylvania on the day that this all goes down from York. They were from New York, of course, yes. But what happens is on that day their children come to visit them in Pennsylvania and they bring the mail from the lenses home with them. Say hey, mom, dad, here's all your mail, the built up kind of thing. So Anthony, he's a retired sanitation worker from New York City, but he gets

the package. He opens it and inside of the box he sees what's described as a medallion box. And what I can figure out is this is essentially similar to a coin box that people will use to hold or display their coins. It's yeah, it's a velvet wrap the blue velvety wrapped box sticking out east side, not exactly, but what's similar to the box the Bok book that Joan got is that this box, it's wide and flat, but not that tall, you know, maybe an inches inch

or so high. And so he opens the box and he is shot by one of the rounds that comes out of it, as well as two other family members, because it turns out this thing had three rounds in it, yeah, three barrels, and it they hit a person apiece. All of the family were and by the way, these went in all different directions, which we'll talk about in a second. But all of the people were hit, all of them were taken to the hospital. They all survived their wounds.

They weren't massively life threatening. But as we talked about before, like Joe had said, is that the one it appears and I the reporting is unclear in this, but the one that hit Joan, I know it had one round. Joe seems to think that maybe it had too. I can't confirm that, but we know for sure that this one had three three rounds with three barrels, which means that whoever was putting this together was trying to hit somebody no matter what happens. Because remember, a bullet has

to come out of the side. This box, or this medallion box isn't that tall, so it's not as if you could stand up a twenty two cartridge round in it and have stuff behind it to light it off easily. So it had to go out the side. So when Joan got her book, you open a book with the spine to your left, so likely the first round shot out of the bottom of the book to hit her

the directly south of the spine. To hit her in the abdomen, but it also shot out the top, you know, which could also Besides, if she opened it from the direction or you know, if the guy really hit the jackpot, she opens it and somebody else is standing right in front of her, then hey, jack pot, you killed two people, Which is what happens with the lensa case because it had three and I don't know which way he opened it, but he must have in some way opened it so

that one round was at him and then there was people, you know, either in front of him or to the side of him. However, the case may be so that it shot in the opposite directions and hit those two people. Well, so somebody is very intentionally figuring out the way this thing is opening to hit people, like they definitely want to take people out. Those cases are usually like books and that they have a spine. They have a hinge

box side, and then there's the three other sides. So it's not like I don't think that, Yeah, I think the thing is is that they didn't set it up so that a round would go out the hinge side. That's intention is go out all the other sides because likely no matter which way somebody's opening. If it's flat to them, it's gonna get up. And that's that's the insidious bit of the way that this whole thing was.

This trap was set to me, and and that that whole The use of the filament, the use of multiple rounds, the use of pointing of multiple barrels, those are things that would become signatures of the zip gun bomber. Another thing would be the return address, because the return address on the packages would appear to be from major organizations, like one of them was from the March of Dimes.

And there would also be something to indicate something to entice the person to open it, like free offer inside or free gift or something something in that kind of verbiage inside. Yeah, it kind of was a big surprise, but something to draw them in. And the second gun was it also made of similar stuff. Break line is from what I can understand, it was also made from brake lines, ballpoint pen, a spring lodged in to make

the circuits, some batteries in there. Yes, like these things all appear to generally be the same, and there are some questions that I have, but will address that later on. In terms of specifics, the part that makes me curious about the whole thing that makes me want to build one of these things is I don't know. I I totally see how how to build one of these things

would be very easy. The tricky part, it seems to me, so you go to close this thing up, you've armed it, the batteries are all in place and connected and everything. Getting that cover shut without shooting the guns off, that's tricky. The rest of it not too hard. But I hate to tell you this, Joe, but it's not. How many times have you bought something with with like watch batteries pre installed. It's a little plastic and the watch works. Well, that's that's kind of what I was thinking, is what

he must have done. But you know, I was trying to think of any other way to do it. I can't really think of it. But no, I think that's probably the simple. The tricky thing about bomb making those not blowing yourself. It's like, have we ever talked about this, that my old man was in bomb disposal? Okay, and the fact that he still has all his bits and

pieces to me is amazing. But it turns out that for the most part, as long as you understand electrical search treat and the chemical comp hounds to go into it. It's pretty easy to build, disturbingly, so it's easy to build and not not you know, easy, but relatively speaking, if you know what you're doing, it's not too hard to pull him apart without igniting them. Yeah, I don't think. I don't think there's very in real life. It's not

like in the movies. Whether there's they're so devilcy colomplex that if you cut the wrong wire you will all blow up. Yeah, and look, I put the greenwuyer where the red wire goes, so that you'll put a row. You figured out my clever ruse. Now it's noting like I'm not really like that at Okay, keep moving forward in her story here before you get too far off the topic. Um okay. So this whole thing with Mr

Lenza happens in October of ninety three. Six months later, on the fifth of April, a package addressed to one Richard McGarrell would show up at a home that it turns out he had he no longer lived out, but he had previously been living at, and that was the home of his sister, Alice Caswell. Alice was seventy five at the time. But this package shows up at her Brooklyn home and you know, she she looks at it and she says, that's weird. Okay, well what's in here?

And just like the last one, Alice opens it up and as you can guess, she was shot. She was not killed by the bullet. She did survive, though of course she was injured. And so far we've got three different victims, and it appears that there's no real connection between them, and that seems to be an ongoing thing in this case, is there's no real obvious connection for

one person In the next time. Four out of the five victims had government jobs, and the government slash military employment does appear to eventually come out as a connection, but it's one the last. The last victim was a real estate agent. I think he was retired. That did he have some military connection? Was he retired military? Not that I can tell. But but let's let's keep going because we're we're too away from him. Okay, we got victims to go here. Unfortunately, was that what it is?

That was just skipping ahead? So it would be over a year before the zip gun bomber would strike again. This time at the Gilmore home. The Gilmore's lived in Queens. Stephanie Gaffney, who was eighteen years old and also about eight months pregnant, was on the phone with somebody when she saw a package addressed to quote unquote Gilmore or occupant. Fun fact, opening mail that comes like that to your house is not mail fraud. Actually, any mail that comes

to your house that's not opt right. Well, but even like the one before where she it was to her brother, it's not mail fraud. It's addressed to I think mail fraud is the wrong term, but it's not against the law to open mail that belongs to somebody else if it comes to you, to your home, Yeah, it's packages included. Sorry. By the way, though, what what this person is doing, our our perpetrators doing by mailing and explosive like this

is against the law. It is surprised. I mean, if you consider it a gun, it's totally against the law because rifles and shotguns I've I've learned can be mailed with disclaimers, but handguns can't be sent through the U. S. Postal Service. They have to be done through other carriers. So if you consider this on the same par as that it's illegal. Bombs are definitely and yeah, if you

could just like, oh, well it's a bomb, well that's yeah. Also, you know, with the intention of hurting people, pretty illegal. Illegal just generally tend to take anything serious, you know, anything having to do with them. They take extra seriously. You can plan on extra penalties. Of course, of course you're you're just gonna get the extra fed penalty. Stand right, if you lobbed a bomb through my window, they wouldn't they wouldn't care that much. But yeah, if there's to

the U. S. Mail, they got all bent out of shape. Really, So Stephanie, she she finds this package. Uh, and just so you know, Gilmore was the last name of her father and her grandfather. Her grandfather had been a New York City police officer. I can't say that for sure. I don't know why her name is different than her father's, but there's all kinds of reasons there. I'm not gone there. I can't guess. But the point is is that the package contained a book. So we've gone book medallion box,

medallion box, and we're back to a book. And when she opened that book, it went off just like all the other packages. But she wasn't hit directly. Instead, she was hit by the shrapnel and apparently she was burned. It burned her abdomenrapnel. Well, the when the bullet goes off, it can shatter the break line. His break line is not heavy duty metal. I mean, we just hadn't said that yet, so I understand what thank you I was asking.

It's my impression that the rest of these have been just like a gun going off and people getting hit by bullets. We hadn't said anything about their actually being an explosion going on. Okay, so we I think Joe and I made a presumption in the beginning when we talked about the fact that zip guns are not permanent guns, and they can explode. They can misfire and discharge their the power in the ignition, and it may not actually

shoot the bullet. It may just just blow up. But you know, another another source of strapping off from this is like, say, if you're building yourself a little homemade thing, and you've got a box inside a hall of that book and you don't want to be too obvious about it, so you don't cut a hole for the barrel to stick out of. But it's a book. Yeah, there's so so, yeah, but you're not going to get injured from some people.

We can go the long and the short of his part of it exploded and she was something hitter piece of something hitter being you know. It wasn't threatening, but of course she's pregnant. They immediately and something blew up. They immediately take her the hospital and the doctors say, your baby's in distress. We're gonna induce labor. Don't worry. She had a healthy baby girl. Everybody was fine. She survived the burns and she recovered from all of that,

so she is okay there. So here's something to keep in mind for Stephanie is that the reason that she wasn't hit with a round when this package went off is that she didn't open it straight on, like we talked about before, how you'd open it with a hinge with a book with she had. She said, she opened it at an angle, so almost as if the corner, the lower right hand corner was pointed straight at her. So when she opened and it went off, that's the reason that she wasn't hit with a round. So she

was very lucky. And why she did that, I can't remember why it was because she was on the phone doing it one handed, or I can imagine it's a ricking bomber, that's why. But you're asking a serious question. Um No, she was very lucky though that she has scraped, you know, escaped getting shot and having much much more harm from from this. Probably getting shot and the gut when you're pregnant is kind of serious, yea. Our our final incident would take place on the twenty of June.

Again nearly all an entire year passes between incidences, and our next player on the docket would be Richard Basil. He is seventy seven. Richard got a package that had a video cassette in it, and I have to presume based on the time that it's a VHS concept beta, because beta is better. I can't think it was going by that point. I was gonna say, I don't know

what else would be a video cassette. I'm pretty sure it was a VHS cassette, and I'm pretty sure he didn't cram a couple of decl batteries in to this one. So well, but this one so okay, So here, let's talk about this, because that's been a lot of time trying to figure this one out. Is a video cassette is about the same height as those medallion boxes. And I think remember the VHS cassettes always came in that cardboard sleeve, so sometimes they came in those big plastic things,

which made them even bigger. So if it if it was in the sleeve or the plastic thing, that would explain how he got Actually, the plastic case would yes, the crime shehell would totally explain how he managed to get a d sel a couple of de cells in there. Yeah, I don't think he would have used de sails anyway, because I mean, using the sails on a big book is great because they weigh a lot. But you pick up a video cassette, you're presuming this guy thinks about that.

Somebody's going to realize that as they're picking up his happy let. This guy planned to stuff pretty carefully. He probably took that, but obviously, you know, he opens it and it goes off and it shatters a window in his home. He's not hurt, his wife isn't hurt. Again, just like with Stephanie, he didn't open it directly square on.

He had it at an angle. He also said he had it away from him when he opened it what I take I think he said it on the table and it was He just kind of looked at it was like I wonder what that is, and he reached over to open it or pull it out of its case, and that's when he ignited it. But you know, lucky for him, the worst thing it did was break a window in his house. Yeah that's pretty expensive. Well it is expensive, but then against so its single pane windows.

But after that, the zip gun bombers seems to stop entirely. There's there's no more loaded packages sent to New York residence in the last twenty years. And as far as I know, and this is an open investigating because Joan was killed, so not all the details are out there, but as far as I know, no fingerprints or DNA evidence was ever recovered from the packages, and the police don't really have a clue of who or why this

was done by. Uh, they haven't ever charged anyone. And as Joe said before, everybody that received one of these packages apparently had either a civil service or a military connection, but there's no real connection other than they worked for a government body. I mean, they all worked for different groups like sanitation department, education, department, um cop, I mean a real estate Yeah. And then there's Richly like his wife, both retired real estate and so none of it makes

any sense really. Well, had it occurred to me that maybe maybe think I was bent out of shape over certain issues, and some of them were government related like sanitation or whatever, or the schools or the police. But but trying to make a point by targeting one random retire sanitation worker is weird. Well, I agree, I agree, But that's this symbolic act maybe, and then and and maybe the reason he's targeted a real estate agent is perhaps you know, housing prices in New York City and

say shot up. Yeah, I'm serious. And so I thinks, Okay, I'm gonna pix one person that I think is part of the problem here and just kill him, you know. And so that's that's kind of what I'm wondering, because I'm just trying to understand the connection between all these people. Yeah, well, yeah, if there is, we can Yeah, I was gonna say, we can talk maybe in theory the fact that maybe

there doesn't always have to be a connection. It might be totally random, and it maybe it just happens at three quarters of people who live in New York work for the freaking government. Maybe that's what it is. Yeah, um, I will tell you that this is still an ongoing investigations that don't call the police. Yeah, totally call the police.

Last thing I read said that there is a hundred thousand dollar reward out for, you know, for information leading to an arrest, which at this this long past, I really kind of don't think it's going to ever happen. But as we talked about, it's a serious crime because somebody was killed and be they're violating federal law by sending guns and explosives and things you should never be doing through the US Postal Service. Uh, the the U s postal services for Netflix and game Fly And that's

because nobody sends anything else through the mail. So hey, nobody sends anything except for like those stupid packets of coupons and Exfinity stuff through the mail. And you know, I don't know. I some some bozo sent me a wedding save the date card in the mail the other day, So that's that's getting used it as well. Yeah, I don't know, And I'll talk. I'll tell you about it later, will mock it later, Okay, well, that is all that we have in terms of the story, so we should

probably move to the theory section. But before we do, let's take a quick break. Get your wardrobe ready for all your events this year with Daily Look. Daily Look is an online premium personal styling service for women that sends hand picked fashion right to your door. And Devon's on Stark, so I gotta read her part. Sounds like the perfect solution for you ladies that don't have any time to shop. Exactly, Devon. All you have to do is fill out a style profile. Let's start to build

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code sideways. Go there now and we're back. So let's talk about our first theory. Theory number one is that the bomber is Craig kip Son of Correct This, and this is the initial belief of the New York Police Department. Craig was, at the time that his mother was killed, twenty seven years old, and apparently had been working for his father at their marine consulting business. What marine consulting business is, I don't know. Marines come in, it's how do I claim my gun? And then I don't. Oh,

I think it's I don't think that's it. I think it's uh, it's the that's the thing where you um, you know, talk to people about the sea. You consult one, Okay, I don't know. Not long before the package that killed Joan Arride. Craig was fired by his father for reasons that I don't know, something wrong. He must have done something wrong. He told them that their boats were thinking because of God. Yeah. Maybe the cops believed that Craig had sent the package to his parents as a way

to get back at them. Supposedly his handwriting was similar to writing that was on the package. Uh, though, I'll be honest, I've only seen that listed on the entry in Unsolved Mysteries about this story, and I don't trust what you see on the old USM page. So who knows but they But by the way, it wasn't curse that it was block letters, if I recall correctly, right, I don't know that for sure. I've never I've never seen a photo of it, so I can't say for sure.

But I also do remember reading. I believe it was on the same Unsolved Mysteries post Craig sent was picked up by sniffer dogs on the package, But I don't know how long after the fact that happened, and if Craig had been in the home and near the package after dated or whatever. Right, Like, So there's there's a whole bunch of questions that for for that bit of information from the Unsolved Mysteries entry that I have. But what doesn't make sense to me is, Okay, why did

he send it to his mother? Because it sounds like his dad was the one who fired him, so why would he target her. Well, you don't know why he was fired. I mean, it's it's possible that it was mom's behest. Yeah, it could have been the mom's behest. It's also you know, the other thing is he could have been trying to get back at his dad by hurting his mom because he knew his dad loved his mom and like it would hurt him to see her

hurting or to lose her versus him. You know, it's that like death is too good for him sort of thing. I got to hurt the people near him, or maybe he was kind of a control for you can he insisted on an opening all the mail himself, you know, and the dad, And yeah, it was just so dad would automatically get it no matter who it was mailed to. Kind of his daughter actually open it all up, you know,

except for on Mother's Day. But yeah, I have bigger problems with this than well, yeah, I mean you know, ignoring that and presuming that the cops are right, what is Craig's connection to all of the other victims. Well, yeah, and even if we're going to go with the typical Joe theory of it was just the one person and they're trying to cover it up, why wait twelve years after you'd already been exonerated and they like, couldn't love you, a case against you? Why wait that long? That's why

he is not exactly the ideal suspects here. Yeah, I mean, maybe one of the others. But again, that long gap does sort of looked funny. But that's my that's my big question mark. I guess with like all of these as as, I know, that's going to be your theory of choices. This it was one person and all the rest of them were just this weird collateral damage, where that twelve year gap is really troubling for any of

the theory. That's why I don't I don't believe whoever whoever mailed if it was more than one person and said they wanted to kill somebody, but covered it by by mailing it to several random people. And as also, I think that what it was is somebody works, say in the New York City Police Department or wherever the wherever the bomb fragments were capt somebody could examine the fragments see how the original bomb was made ten twelve years before, and picked up the idea the idea and

ran with it. Then maybe, but the whole thing against Craig doesn't make any sense. I'll be and I'll be honest with you that the second theory that we have here doesn't make any sense either, because it's it's even thinner than the first one, which is that Harold Kip did it. Jones husband. Well, I mean it's not enough to fire you, dude, I gotta like you thrown in

shail too. Yeah, well, okay, maybe, I mean there's the traditional you know, matrimonial discontent is something there, but I've only seen this listed in one place and it's never fleshed out. I really think that some writer dove tailed it in and I foolishly have now just repeated it. But there's nothing to support it anywhere. So that one, actually,

I think is a complete another useless theory. I'm sure the police looked at because but but I think that it very quickly fell apart because there's just nothing to support it. Well, I mean it could have been not Again, there's nothing to support this whatsoever. But you know, sometimes when I look at cases like this, they think, well,

the intention wasn't to kill. It was too maim so that that person became more reliant on their spouse because their spouse was feeling moon chausen by props or kind of thing, or even just like was feeling like, oh, this person is going to leave me because they don't need me anymore. So they've got to need me again. And if they're a paraplegic, they'll need me. I'll have to take care of them. They'll be depended on me. No, no, I I mean, you may be right, Devon, but again

they're bad. Yeah. Well, let's let's move on to the next there, which at least has some substance to it, and that this was all done by a guy named Stephen Wabra. This is a guy we have not introduced into the story yet because he wants to make sure, I'm sorry, completely outside character. So let's talk about Mr Wavra. They didn't know any of these people. That's a big problem. Okay, So back in three, the cops rated Wabra's house for some reason which I can't find why they did it.

We call that an undisclosed reason. Correct, Okay, but when when they did, they found the makings of a book bomb on his kitchen to able, and by that mean, I mean a haul out out book with the components of a bomb. And I think that well, and I think this means, yeah, it does, but I think this means a real bomb, not a zip gun style bomb, but more of an i e. D. Like a real go boom kind of bomb. By the way, to address something you said much earlier Devon about what is this

really a bomb? Actually not entirely. Bombs are meant to just blow up and send stuff flying in all directions, you know, whereas these things direct bullets and specific directions. So so there sort of a bomb. But I think that's why they call it a zip gun is they didn't know really what the hell to call him. But yeah, it's kind of a hybrid between a gun and a bomb. Yeah yeah, but but you know, they find this stuff and Wadra at the time, he says he was planning

to use it on a local military base. And the reason why, well, we're not entirely sure of, because it turns out that Wabra served in the Navy from seventy nineteen seventy three, and while he was enlisted, he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. And how much that particular illness played in his decision to build this bomb, it's hard to say. I mean, it's feasible that it played a significant role, but we don't know if he was receiving

treatment or getting medications, so I don't know. I'm not going to point to that as his sole reason to do all that. And as we and as as as we've pointed out before, um statistically, people who are diagnosed with things like schizophrenia are more likely to be victims of crimes than they are to be perpetrators of crimes. But that doesn't mean that they don't do things. It

doesn't mean that some people do do that. But also totally you know, it could also be that he was booted from the Navy and he was just bitter about it, you know, because it booted for legitimate reasons. You really don't want to have people who have mental issues. Well, and like I said, he said, he tanned. He intended to take this this bomb and take it to a military base, so he obviously had some listen. The guy wrote a two hundred and fifty page manifesto but put

a shame Yeah, in terms of sheer number of pages. Absolutely, But the thing is that that incident three that didn't that wasn't obviously a zip gun bomb, and it didn't directly connect him to the death of Joan Kip. It would be later discovered that he did have a connection to her because he had gone to Dyker Heights Junior High School where she had worked. He apparently had been held back for two years and she had been a guidance counselor and he had interacted with her. But he

also said he had nothing against her. But also that's like a long time. It was a long time. But also I spent a long time since I've been in high school. I don't remember, you know, I never got held back, and there were other kids that did occasionally. I don't recall it. The guy, this counselor, has really got any input into those decisions anyway. Yeah, there's a number of reasons that the kids I knew got held back, whether it be from behavioral problems directly, like you know,

skipping school, kind of problems or just failing classes. But I don't know what the reasons were that he was held back. And I gotta tell you that holding a kid back two years is pretty extreme. Although they used to do that lot. They used to think that that was how they would clean you up, as they would hold you back, you just needed another year to learn. Yeah, but I don't know. It was always my nightmare when I was in I was like, oh, I got the worst thing ever I do. The nineteen year old kid

who was a junior in high school. It was like, oh, yeah, I just think that's a really long time to hold onto it. And for that to not be connected to anybody else, you know, would be one thing. If like a bunch of teachers or people connected to that school or the hometown we're getting this stuff. But for this one, like, well, he happens to have gone to a school where she

worked ten years ago. Yes, over ten years. I mean, this is that makes you think of that that scene where Steve Busimi has the list of people written down and he's putting on the lipstick and then crossing them out. That was in that I can't remember the name of the movie. I know, Yeah, but that's that's Billy Madison. But that's the kind of thing that you would expect. But the thing is is that there's there's all kinds of problems with this because apparently when Joan got her bomb,

Wafro was in jails. I was gonna say it sounds like he would have been in jail if they Yeah, so he was. He was already incarcerated, and then he was again arrested in this This arresting nine would take place because he was in the Brooklyn Public Library and found to have yet another hollowed out book. But inside that book he had exacto knives. Apparently what I heard in one account anyways, that he was hiding razor blades

and had the pages of library books. It sounds like what he'd done is put his exactor knives in his hollowed out book to to smuggle them in, and that was putting them in other books. So when they rested him, they found four two caliber cartridges on him, which based on his record and I'm presuming the terms of his parole were a violation of parole. So he was instantly hit with the book. No pun intended a little bit, So they obviously charged him and he went to jail.

So that also means that if that's in ninety five and he's in custody, it doesn't make any sense that he could have been responsible for the last bomb, which was in so this this doesn't work. Yeah, but the cops obviously really must have believed he was the bomber because and the prosecutors too, because typically people don't even go to prison at all, there go back president for

parole violations. So setting him back for ten years, that's pretty I think that he probably from what I can gather, it was he had had many, many, many encounters with But I'm just saying because somebody that this one that happened. It was a ninety months sentence that he got out in two thousand five after serving a ninety months sentence. I don't know what came before that. So he just he keeps he's uh. I think he spent more life in incarcerated than he has out in the free world.

So that that gives you an idea. Thanks Joe, thanks for screwing up there, pudding. Well let's move on to the next theory here, which is that it wasn't Stephen Wabra, it was Stephen Wabra and a friend. Because once the cops got ahold of the fact that, oh, well, he was in jail, they immediately said that he had an accomplice. Okay, wait, let let me run with this. Though this this, this, this will is a self fulfilling prophecy, just let it happen.

So their theory is that Uabra assembled the components of the bombs and then mailed them to a partner who was outside of the the jail system, and that person then mailed the packages, which I have to say, stealing a phrase from Devon is the dumbest thing I've heard all day. But well, I was gonna say in a long time, but I was. I decided just to classify today because here are lots of dumb things because I'm on the internet all the time. Um, because but listen,

they go, they go through Chrisoners outgoing mail. They inspected, so we can't like that just doesn't pass the sniff test to me. That they would be like, oh, look, he's got these little metal tubes and he's got these springs and he's just mailing it out. That's weird. But know it's it's it is an idiotic although it's not it's not inconceivable that an accomplice actually did mail the last bomb while he was locked up in jail. It's not because what about the first one, because it appears

he was incarcerated when the first one happened as well. Yeah, and that one could have been a different person, or it could have been as accomplice. But I mean, it's like, you know, one of these bombs, they're not that complicated. I mean, Wabra, it could have been this accomplice actually showed Uabra how to make these bombs. That could be that Wabra showed him the other guy, how to make them, because they're not that hard to make. And that's not

a bad point that you're making their Joe. I will mention here before we get to before we finished this particular theory that the second party's name is never given, which is frustrating because there's a roommate in three time, when the cops come in and find him with all this explosive stuff, there's a roommate who he says was never involved. But that roommate's name is never disclosed. So

we'll call him Justin. Yeah, let's call him Justin because this, we're presuming that Justin is also the person that is involved in the later mailing while he's in jail. They do say that there's some loose ends that they tie to Justin, which is the fact that the victims and Justin appear to have all used the same pharmacy even

though they're all over the city. I thought that was, well, it's it's either they used the same pharmacy or they lived in the same neighborhoods, so over this span, and so some of these are in Brooklyn summer and Queens. One is oh gosh, where's the other one that's on the left side of the map that I can't think something like that. Yeah, but but they're all over So it's weird that Justin, as we're calling him, is in the neighborhood or using the same pharmacy as all these people.

So you can see why the cottage saying, well, this is as weird as Buddy is all over the same place, look at that guy. But it's but also like equally weird. They're not like, well, then Justin did it. They're like, well, but still was right, right? We we don't we don't have enough to pull any of them in. We're just saying this. But then they go on to what is our now our next theory, which is that it was

Uabra and Justin and one of their friends. Because they getting more and more complicated because because they build on this theory, and they say that this third person who was also unnamed, and well, let's just call up Aaron. So we've got Justin and Aaron and Stephen Wavra, and they say that according to this the addition of Aaron is because Aaron was the one who was paying for the bombs and picking out the targets. So now it's one layer more removed from the actual person doing the

dirty work. So Aaron tells Justin, who then tells Stephen Wavra, who then is doing it as as a way of as a way of insulating yourself from being charged with the crime and getting and going to prison. This is really perverse and stupid, because actually it's safer just to build up yourself oft and mail them yourself, because you're not letting anybody else do You're in a single cell y yeah yeah, Whereas this is a sure way to get ratted out in the Center Center jail. So it's

the tumbest thing I've ever heard. I you know, I, while we're doing this, I think that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, because it's like, basically what they did is they said, well, we've got this guy who's got um some pretty significant mental illness going on, and you know that obviously makes him dangerous. Not my words, I'm just putting words in the pop's mouths, makes him really dangerous. So he's obviously guilty of this. Now, let's see if we can find a way to make it seem like

he's definitely guilty of this. Oh, he was in jail for two of the bombings. Okay, no problem, there was another person. Oh uh, that other person couldn't possibly done that. Awesome, there's another person. Still, because we are so convinced that this one person is definitely guilty, that we will tailor our story to whatever we have to tailor it to to make sure that this guy seems guilty, which is, as we've been saying, the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

It does sound like the logic of a four year old telling a story. It's not even that, it's just like it's it's it's like those forensic files episodes where they're like and then twenty years later, Dina evidence proved that this person was definitely not guilty because the cops had spent eighteen hours interrogating them with like threatening techniques, so they of course said, oh, you're right, I did do that. The phrase Joe loves the rubber hose. The

rubber hose. Yeah, I mean, I just think they just got so fixated, and that's really a detriment. I'm sorry, I'm a little bos It's a really detriment to the case in general, because I'm sure there were other things they could have been investigating that would have been like better leads coming from this stuff that they probably didn't because they were like, no, no, we've got our guy. It's fine. It's Stephen wav gets too complicated. And this applies and not just crime, but in science and other

things as well. You know, sometimes anytime you have to add a third person to like make your theory work. Yeah, yeah, it's another possibility is that it was it could have been somebody that wabrun knew, because it's not unusual for people to share common hobbies and pursuits. Yeah, you tend

to band together around endeavors. He knew some guy, maybe somebody even met from the military or whatever, that was really into amateur bomb making and all kinds of stuff like that, and maybe this guy showed him a thing or two. But but Wabern himself never actually did a thing. And as far as mailing these things, somebody else entirely and wab for his part, didn't didn't wrap the guy up because question he turns out to actually be a patsy. Yeah,

it's hard to say. We've got two theories left in this uh, and these are actually going to also go quick, just like the last two the So this next theory is that this entire thing was perpetrated by some unknown crank.

That's my words, because as with all stories like this, it's entirely possible that the person that is responsible is obviously unknown but is also rather unconnected to all of the individuals that were targeted, and the targeting was done based on some unknown perceived slight I mean the most subtle of interactions, you know, as in, you pass by somebody and you look at them and keep going, and they may take that as a slight kind of unknown slight,

like the simplest weirdest stuff. I'm shaking their head because it's like, I don't even know that there has to be a reason. You know, sometimes people are just like I'm gonna kill some people. It doesn't matter who they are, entirely random. Although I'm gonna tell you, I like, I loved the statement from one of the New York Police Department guys. He's like, that's the weird thing about this is that New Yorkers, if they've gone a problem with you,

they'll just comed at you. They'll put you in the face, or they'll throw something through your window, like they'll confront you. And this just doesn't make any should be And that's why this guy, I was going to say, and that's why this guy is clearly from the Midwest, no doubt. Well that's technically the Pacific Northwest, but whatever. Yeah, But it might be too that the people themselves are totally unimportant. They're randomly picked out of a picked out of a

phone book. And it might be the bombs themselves are the message. It might be that, you know, I mean, like this bomb had two barrels, this bomb at three. I mean, this one was the Odyssey, that one was Melville book. I mean, you know, it might be some sort of weird, weird code that we can't comprehend. You know, it could be something like that. Doubt it, but that's but it could it may it may well be there was a message there somewhere, but the people had nothing

to do with it. Yeah. Well, our our final theory is the I think the worst in terms of like spooky worst, and that is that this is done by a bunch of copycats. Because the way this goes is that, I mean, basically, the first one was sent by somebody at eleven years went by, and there's a ton of reporting that happened on this story, and over time details

leaked out. I've read the early like the early nineties reporting before the second bomb arrived, and there's tons of details that are leaking out that could give somebody an idea of what's going on, how to make the bomb, and what some of the key features were, like the multiple of the batteries and the multiple barrels. And but if you think about it, it's entirely possible that somebody's like, oh, hey, I could do that, but I have a medallion box available.

Somebody else is like, oh I have a medallion box too, oh, I have a book, like if you think about it, ignoring Joan, the second and the third used a medallion box, the fourth used another book, and the fifth used a video cassette Like there's I mean, maybe that's just the cases that we're handy to the individual, or maybe they mix it up because they figured people might be paranoid about getting a book in the mail later on about getting a b medallion case in the mail, except when

they did book medallion case, medallion case book VHS, right, yes, like you think you would constantly be mixing it up. But the I also, I can't get a clear sense if the way that it was set up on the inside was actually the same, because again this is an open investigation. They haven't spilled all the beans. Everything hints at that, but I've also read some stuff that makes

me think that maybe there are some differences. And so they're saying we think it's the zip gun bomber, and the media said it's the zip gun bomber, but it may not actually be that. According to the investigative team, they're like, well, no, actually it's different in these three areas, but pretty pretty basic stuff. I mean, here, here's what it is you know, you know better combust No, yeah, I don't want our listeners to know any more about making bombs. Okay, I just want to say that it's

very very simple. Here's here's why. Here's why it was one guy. Because all the bombs worked, so it was the same guy. I'm pretty sure we don't know, not necessarily the very first one, another one that Stephanie if it was, if the one blew, it misfired, but it still worked, I don't work yet. But so I mean, it's it's conceivable that the very first one was somebody else,

and in the next four were by one guy. So maybe two bombers because because of that gap, And of course the second bomber could have gotten all of his information from the papers, he could have been privy to the evidence. And there another worked for the police department, worked as a newspaper reporters, saw pictures or saw the actual bombs, had a very good idea how they were made,

and again not complicated. And but again these things, even though they're not complicated, if you don't do everything exactly right, the bomb will not go off. So I think that this guy, whoever it was, was skilled enough that that he to late was able to build these bombs and actually every single one went off. If it was just a bunch of different cracks, I'm pretty sure at least

one wouldn't have gone off. And you know, and and the thing that lends itself to what you're saying there, Joe, is the idea that what we talked about before, that whole double packed gunpowder issue, if indeed they mean that somebody did homeloads and put more powder in them that would traditionally be in a normal rifle round, then that would lend itself to say, oh, hell yeah, it's the same guy, because not everybody has that. Well, you can build your own bomb from regular stuff and buy your

off the shelf bullet. To be able to pack your own load like that, that that requires a whole another skill set and tools set. I also think the fact that like it sounds like it was Brake lines every time. I mean, like, who, how many people just have you can go to the store by bricklin. Yeah, but doesn't it make more sense that it would just be like, aren't brink lines pretty long? Right? But that's what I mean.

It's like, doesn't it make more sense that it would just be like one guy had like some break line lying around and just like cut a bunch of the junkyard and saw him out from underneath the car. Right, But it would be like the same. It seems like it'd be the same person. Really they could use. That is an ingredient that seems random for everybody to hone in onto you, right, because you could just go down to the you know, Stephen Wabro's home for zip gun construction.

We've got all your your gun yeah, a k A like ace hardware, right, and like get a piece of pipe and use that. I mean, there's nothing suspicious about buying break line if you're a mechanic. I mean, there's nothing suspicious about buying any of those things. Not at all. You can get to. I mean, the bullets again, we're just as likely as just lead lead fishing sinkers. Yeah, they could have just been lead balls and yeah, and it's as far as double packed. I thought words like

double charged. So that could mean they stuck in two bullets in each barrel, or it could mean they stuck in twice as much gunpowder. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of ways to go. Yeah, again, I don't think Cartridges were really involved in this at all. I think it was just it was a little bomb that had two or three barrels leading off of it, that had one or two bullets in each barrel. And that's what I think it was. That's that that there were no Cartridges there as far as I can tell, well, as far

as I know, I have no clue. Like the theories are really solid. Well, anybody could have done this. I mean it's so simple, you know, I mean, how hard it is to make a little bomb and mail it to somebody. Well, I think you actually pointed out a good point, A good idea is that it actually is complicated enough to make sure that they were and that it was the patients in time to do that, But it was somebody who was meticulous. I don't know of their theories, like any of them, you guys know, I

don't think any of them are good. I still I just I really am very annoyed that the police just went down. They just kind of honed in on this one person and he was the only it was, he was the only one that even halfway plausible suspect they had, which I mean years later they were still hanging on both the suspects. I don't understand why they gave him a good hard look. That makes sense. Yeah, all right,

Well that's all we've got for this particular story. If you want to read about the story, you're more than welcome to do that. You can go to our website Thinking Sideways podcast dot com, where we'll have some links to the research about this story, although frankly none of us better than our podcast, so don't bother while you're there. Of course, you could listen to this and download this episode, or you can get any of them off of the website.

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We have the Reddit page where there's conversation post episode conversations happen. We are on Twitter, Twitter, Thank You Joe, where Devin sends out all kinds of weird memes and funny fun stuff. So it's fun and it is Thinking Sideways without the G in the middle. We're on Instagram, so you can follow us there as well. Podcast not Thinking Sideways, Yes, podcast. Actually I got to say is that I think Twitter is the only one where we

couldn't put podcast on the edge. Twitter is the outlier in that regard, but we're in all of those places. And last, and of course not least, is if you want to reach out to us and have a conversation because you have questions, or you have theories, or you have stories to suggest, or you're the zip gun bomber, You're welcome to talk to us, and you can do that by email at our email address, which is Thinking

Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. Uh that inbox is always filling up, and we're always working to empty it. So we are answering emails as quickly as possible. But with that having been said and all of those points covered, I don't have anything else. Do you too have anything else for tonight? Nope? All right, Well let's blow this pop stand and we will talk to you guys next week. Nipping on out of here, Tata, Well that wasn't very koom perfect.