Thinking Sideways: The Springfield Three

who's being a little but today he's some more. I promised not to sabotage you anymore. We are ten minutes into recording already and we haven't recorded anything. This is so you're going to tell them about our So we're special. Yeah. So we're in the month of October now, welcome. And historically what we do is we kind of pick a theme for the month of October because I don't know, Halloween, unsolved mysteries, it makes sense. This year we decided to

Last year we did murders really really. This year we decided to do what we're calling Thinking Sideways is Most Wanted, where we actually did a poll for all of our social media users and they all voted. Um, we made a list of the fifteen most something like that, some number of the most requested unsolved mysteries that we get, and then we had people vote on the ones that they wanted the most. So we've taken the top I think five, five or six something. That depends on exactly

how it susses out. We are still negotiating how long some of them are going to be. Don't don't bother to go find the Lincoln vote, guys. Voting is already closely comes out. Yeah, but we're going to do the fourth runner up today and then you know, Halloween Special will be the first most requested, most voted one twill indeed. Yeah, So stay tuned. It's going to be fun series. This is our fourth runner up and today we're going to talk about the Springfield three. Indeed. Ready, Okay, I'm ready.

On June six, Susie Streeter and Stacy McCall were celebrating their high school graduation. One of them was eighteen, the other was nineteen. The school had offered a non drinking grad night. Did you guys have that? We did too? Yeah, where they well you're probably too old a underage, k Yeah, there was no such thing as underage drinking at that point. It um. So if you're unfamiliar with this concept, basically what it is is it's like a big old party

night Ours was casino themed. We did it at a water park, but they didn't they wouldn't tell you where it was. They just it was just a surprise. The school put it on um for us. At least they didn't. Yeah, they didn't tell us where we were going. They just said pack a swimsuit and a change of clothes and a couple of the things, and you write it in a you know, in a bag, and you hand your bag over and they take you to the place and

you're locked in all night. Shut in. Yeah, it's a shut in basically, and it's a fun party as long as you're lame like me and didn't drink in high school and like thought that hanging out was really fun. Yeah it was. It was. It was was just hanging out in the gymnasium. Yeah that sounds awful. Yeah, that the local water park that you guys know, the indoor water park very close to here. Um, And they also set up a bunch of casino tables and they had like a mechanical bowl and it was really fun, but

also like there was yeah. Yeah. So anyway, the story not about that. The story is about the fact that Susie and Stacy decided that sounds lame, we don't want to do the shut in thing, because I think that was going to be in their jam, wasn't I think it was. It sounded like it was going to be a lame one, like like Steve's yeah we grat I graduated in this right around the same time as these two. So the shut ins were kind of a new idea,

but nobody figure out how to make an enticing yeah. Yeah, So they and a group of friends, it wasn't just these two girls decided they would not do the shut in and they would do their own party. And there were a series of parties involving alcohol that were half

high school graduation. Of course there is of course. Yeah, they decided water park theme apparently, So this group of friends decided that on Sunday, which was the next day, the seventh, they would all go to the water a water park that was kind of close, but it was kind of a longer drive, like a half hour drive or something. Yeah, but they were Their plan was they were going to drive there and to a motel that was close to the water park that night. Yeah, yeah,

the sixth and stay there. The whole group was going to do that and then they would just go to the water park the next morning. That was the plan, but the parents weren't too enthusiast. Yeah, well, as you can imagine, right, you're underage, it's late, you've been celebrating with drinks, whether we told you you could or not, and now you're gonna get into a bunch of cars

and drive on the freeway. Yeah. And you know, none of I've listened to a fair number of interviews with parents that were involved in this whole situation, and none of them seemed to you know, they all kind of seemed to be understanding and okay with the fact that the kids were going to drink, and really their their concern was like, hey, maybe don't go drive for a long time after you've been drinking, not like, hey, don't drink.

So they decided instead of going to the hotel, they would stay with their friend Janelle, who was also a part of this party. She was a senior. She was also a senior. Yeah, so they got to her house after one of the parties. But it turned out I don't know why Janelle didn't know this, but apparently she didn't. But it turned out that all of her extended family was staying for the graduation. They were all from some of the another yeah, so they were visiting, so they

were all staying there. So the house was pretty full, and you know, the girls could have just slept on the floor, but Susie's mom lived pretty close by and she was a she was a single mom, so it was just her at the house, and you know, there was plenty of rooms. So Susie said, you know what, Stacy and I are going to go. We're going to drive back to my mom's house and we're gonna stay there tonight. And her mom's name was Cheryl, and her

mom's name was Cheryl. So we've got Susie, Stacy, and Cheryl. This is You've got to kind of keep these straight, guys, because it is if you don't, if you're not reading it constantly, it will get a little confusing. Because we've got so it's it's Susie Streeter and her mom Cheryl, and then the other girl is Stacy Call and she's the friend. There's gonna be a lot of name dropping.

So I just want to try and lay some I work for folk because I read two or three articles and then went, wait, what which one And especially when you get with the with the daughters, it was the daughter and the friend. I can they all have different last names? Yeah? That was the other part. Daughters in this story don't have the same last name, which makes it tough. Yeah, although SUSY's brother does have the same last name as herr. Yeah, that was the only consistent

was the only one. So so I'm sorry I interrupted. So they're they're they're going to Cheryl's house. So they're going to Cheryl's house. Yeah, uh, And they drive separately. They have both have their cars wherever they were, so they decided to drive separately over to Cheryl's house. And they called Cheryl out about like ten thirty that night to say, hey, we actually decided we're going to come back there after we're done partying. Okay, but they continued

to be out partying for a while after that. You look confused. Well, no, what I'm what, I'm trying to reconcile and maybe you can help me get a beat on this is I know that Stacy called her mom and told her mom that she was going to be staying at what's the Janelle's house, so she hadn't she didn't know about this change of plans. And so I'm just trying to figure out, did they all plan to do that and she just didn't call her mom or

do you have a good sense of it? I think I don't think it was a plan necessarily, I think, you know, and I don't know. I think it just happened, and you know, and the reading that I saw it did say that Susie called her mom to discuss the plans, although I guess now that I think about it, didn't clarify what plans they were talking about. So it could have been the change of plans from the motel to Jannelle's house, and that she never they just showed up

at Cheryl's house. At the teenage girls and the teenagers, I shouldn't say girls are teenagers, they're they're prone to just erratically changing play and and everybody please do keep in mind this is pre cell phone. Yeah, two, So they weren't gonna just text mom and be like, Okay, we're coming over now. Act really just kidding. Yeah, you can't send her an email because it's you know, four

K modem or whatever. They were. Yeah, and they actually and the girls didn't arrive at Cheryl's house until like to fifteen is what they guess, Am. So I would suspect that the plans kind of change. Everyone is asleep at Janelle's house and they didn't want to wake anybody up using the phone, so they just headed over there. But they drove separate cars. Cheryl had been home all evening. She was reportedly refinishing a dresser. That's according to a friend.

She spoke to a friend on the phone at like eleven fifteen PM who said she was talking about the project she was working on, which was refinishing a dresser. And that's like the last confirmed anything we know about them at all. All three three, all three not a clue left behind. No. Essentially, sometime between two fifteen am and eight am, these three women just vanished, basically, I mean really the evaporated. Yeah, for for all anybody can tell,

they were just raptured clothes and all. Seriously, I mean, like that's they just disappeared. So when when the raptor comes, you don't get to take your purse with you, I don't think so. Yeah, So Janelle, when Stacy and Susie left Janelle's house, she said, all right, you know what, just call me in the morning, like eight am. Like let's wake up at eight um. You know, I think the water park opened at like nine or something. So they're like, yeah, you know what, call me at eight um.

We'll figure out who's driving all of that stuff and then we'll just go from there. So she was expecting to hear from them at eight am sometime in the morning. I mean, they're they're teenage kids. They sleep in. They did until two in the morning. Yeah, I don't if I'm up till two in the morning, I don't get a bit eight am. But I think I did when

I was eighteen, especially if I was excited about something. Okay. Yeah, Anyway, she doesn't hear from them, and she just calls the house, and I think it was reported to be pretty close to eight you know. She seemed she was kind of, you know, ready to go and a little annoyed that they hadn't called her yet. So she called them, and she called a couple of times and there was no answer, and so she called her boyfriend to come pick her

up um and drive her over to Cheryl's house. When they got there, all three of the cars because Susie had her own car, Stacy had her own car, and then Cheryl had our car. Um. All three of the cars were parked outside when they walked onto the porch and they noticed there was broken glass on the porch. And now said that she noticed that the dome light on the porch, the globe glass globe, Yeah, that it

was broken, Yeah, it was. It was it. I could never because you see the recreations and I've seen the picture of the house. It's actually a globe though, right. I know that sounds dumb to ask, but the domes or as we refer to him, the boob lights are always in the actual ceiling. So that makes a difference in terms of an actual globe. Okay, they know, I don't think they make the as you so absolutely put a boob lights as porch lights usually yeah. Much, Yeah,

because it's too much wiring to have. I don't know I'm making that up. Nobody pleased. Yeah, we'll survey. So Janelle, being a good friend and neighbor, thinks, oh that's not good. I'll sweep that up. I think her boyfriend swept it up. I think her boyfriend did, but one of the two of them swept up. Yeah, they swept at the glass and threw in the trash, which is is really nice. Um, and later on the police were helpless to that in a second. So it was nice of them. And they

just figured, oh, well, the girls are still asleep. They knocked or you know, Janelle and her boyfriend knocked a couple of times and they didn't hear response, and they figured, oh, well, they're just still asleep. Better going and you know, wake him up. And the door was unlocked. It was closed, but it was unlocked, and they went in and genuinely

didn't think anything was wrong. Um, you know, all of their stuff was there, their purses, all three of the women had purses there, and then um, Susie and Cheryl both were smokers, and they both of their packs of cigarettes were there, and car keys everything. Uh, the dog named Cinnamon, which was reportedly agitated but not I mean,

not harmed or anything and probably just hungry. Yeah, probably, So they went in and um, Janelle reported that it looked like um, both the beds, Susie and Cheryl's beds had been slept. In course, that doesn't necessarily mean anything, because a lot of people that's true. Yeah, so that doesn't really mean a whole lot um. But she didn't really know what was going on, so she just started to leave the house. They were like, all right, I guess they just went to the water park without us,

without any of their stuff. Um. And right as Janelle was leaving, the phone rang and she answered it because I guess she thought maybe. I don't know why she answered, so would you answer somebody else's phone in their house, I don't know if they're not home, not actually, because I mean she's wondering what happened, and she's thinking maybe somebody's maybe it's Susie calling. Well, I don't know why Susie would call, because she wouldn't expect Janelle to be there.

But you know, maybe it was like a brother saying like, you know, because she did have a brother, you know, maybe it was the brother saying like, oh I just wanted to check. Oh yeah, and they were going to do this thing. You know, I get Okay, I don't know it is. I agree, it's weird to me too, but that's what happened. She answered the phone and on the other end was a male voice just saying lud pervy comments to her, And so she hung up the phone and it rang again and it was the same

person saying the same sort of stuff. You know, the caller, I d has eliminated that one thing from our society of nothing else. Star star whatever it is are six nine is the like re dial. But yeah, there's the one to block your number. But they're good enough and picking those things up. That almost never happens anymore. Yeah, which is pretty great. I was getting all the time. Yeah, it was awful. No, so Janelle and her boyfriend laughed after the two weird creepy pervy calls. They didn't feed

the dog, I don't. She didn't say anything about feeding the dog. She also didn't report them missing because yeah, she thought were Yeah, I mean, I guess on the one hand, right, but I would like I probably would have like told my mom or somebody. I would have told somebody, Oh, yeah, it was weird. They weren't there. They're like those mean girls. They left, but like it was weird. Their cars and their purses were there, So like she may very well have done that maybe and

whoever she said it to just didn't you know. I mean, this is a very innocuous thing. I went over to somebody's house. They weren't there, like they told me they were gonna be. How familiar to this? Yeah, it happens all the time, I guess, like for me, and probably it's because I come from this like unsolved mystery headspace. But like the glass was broken, the door was unlocked, the dog was mad, their stuff was all there, they weren't. I would be like, Wow, there's lots of weird little

red flags here. Maybe you know you're from the cell phone generation where you're in contact all the time. I think Joe might be in the same boat. I've gone over to people's house pretty cell phone. I was supposed to meet him at two o'clock or whatever. Knock on the door and they're not there, And you sit in

your car and you wait for five minutes. Then you wander around the house and you don't go into the house and see that all their stuff is there though, no, no, see that's but that's the thing is, I would never have just wandered unless it was a house that I went into on a regular basis, And maybe Janelle did maybe, yeah, she might have been very familiar with the mom and yeah, yeah, well, I guess that brings up a bit of a point um,

the fact that their cigarettes were there. Cheryl's son, Slash, Susie's brother, describes his mom as the kind of chain smoker who wouldn't leave a pack in a room when she left the room. She always had him with her. Yeah, so if Janelle knew, she might not have known that. I don't know. Yeah, maybe i'd be hard to not know. Count mom ever were such a that's true, that's true. Yeah, yeah, So okay, after this, Janelle and her boyfriend go to the water park. The girls aren't there, but I guess

she doesn't think anything of it. And Stacy McCall's mom was expecting a call from her daughter in the morning, and she knew that she was supposed to be a Janelle's house, so she called Janelle's house and Janelle's sister answered and said, oh no, no, they stayed at Susie's house last night, and she was kind of annoyed, but she believe she was going to buy like a wedding dress or something with her other daughter. There was some

big appointment that she had to keep. So she thought, all right, well, I don't know the phone number over there, so I'll just swing by after. Did she know where they actually lived? She I think she got the address from Janelle Jane's sister because they knew she didn't have the phone number because they just recently moved into that house. She got the she got the address somewhere somehow because she later went by the house. This was like eight or nine. No, no, no no, I'm sorry. This was more

than twelve hours after they had left. It was in the afternoon, and they don't know what time, to be honest. So she went to the house and she also found the door to be unlocked, and also found all the cars there. And she says that when she went in, the TV was turned on to like fuzzy white noise. Yeah, just like white noise. And she said that she had a really weird, eerie feeling about the whole situation. She also saw that there were messages on the message machine.

So she yeah, although at this point, like, if you haven't heard from your daughter in a really, really, really long time, that's a long time to not hear from your daughter after a night of drinking, I think, But so she listens to the messages, and I think there was just the one. There was several, but I don't I don't know that we have an exact number because she didn't remember. She didn't remember, she didn't remember what the content of the messages was. She didn't There was

one message that she remembered being really really suspicious. It was a male voice who was saying, I think things again. Probably, she said she didn't remember, and also, oops, she deleted the message. Oops. So the cops just to like head all of your screaming nightmare sounds off. The cops are very sure that that was probably a pretty important clue. It could have been. Any clue that you lose is important because if it's not there anymore, you spend so

many man hours trying to change sit down. So regardless of if it actually was worth a damn, it was important. It's it kind of just been just some some pranks there again, some jerk Stacy. Stacy McCall's mom was worried, so she decided to go to the the police. She hadn't heard from her daughter. She felt really weird in the house.

She heard a weird message, so she went to the police and reported the missing, and the police of later since revealed kind of another big problem with this case is that apparently anywhere between ten and twenty people came to the house looking for Cheryl and Stacy and Susie and let themselves in and walked around contaminated, the contaminated

the whole thing. It's it's little things like um in Susie's room, apparently the blinds the not the blinds, the curtains were open a little bit like somebody was peeking out, which I think would be a very interesting clue if we could know that Stacy had done it, or Susie I'm sorry, see I'm doing it already. If we knew that, if we knew that one of the three women had done that, it would be interesting to know because it would at least mean that, oh, there was something that

had happened outside the house. But the other hard part here is that there's the dog. Yeah, it could have been. The sense that I had was that it was more than just a dog, like shoving his face into the you know, it parted a little at the top. Oh see, I got that when when I heard the way it was described, or read the way it was described, I got the idea that it was, you know, maybe a slit.

It was about a foot or so tall. Interesting and just a little bit open, because to me that insinuates peaking when you're barely pushing them open so you can see out, but nobody realizes you're doing it, which is how cats and dogs leave curtains when they're done watching outside. That's fair. I hadn't thought of that. It could just be a case of sloppy curtain clothing, which is rampant

in this country. Yeah, really, it's a problem. Also as Joeman, and the broken glass would have probably been a pretty important clue, you know, like well a brake pattern, was the bull broken as well? You know, so it's little things like that that would have been probably how was the grass glass broken? Was it like you know, well, I mean, yeah, you can't tell things like that based

on how big the pieces are. Did it look like and did it look like somebody had like whacked it with a bat or like hit it up or like or did it look like it just finally came loose, because they do that worthless, and those things are known to occasionally just drop to the ground. So that would have been a pretty interesting clue to have, but we don't have it. So so the police not fish the fragments out of the garbage. I guess not. I guess

by that time they work one. So then I never right over on Sunday morning, huh, at like eight o'clock in the morning, and the cops must have shown up sometime Monday morning. So because they didn't go right away, they did they went over pretty quick and left a note on the door that was like, hey, Cheryl, when you get home, can you let us know. Yeah, And they didn't hear anything for another day and they were like, alright, fine,

I guess we'll go. So it's very possible that Monday was trash day and her garbage was already out, or maybe the Janelle's boyfriend just threw it in that and you know, wheeled it out there. Or maybe he didn't even throw it in a trash can. Maybe he just threw it in the street. I mean, you know, that is sadly quite possible. Yeah, I mean it's totally possible that he was. He was like, oh, yeah, i'll clean this up, no problem. Janelle. Okay, huh, what's going on? Yeah?

What were you doing in here? Now? Yeah? I'm gonna pause here to mention before we move into the theories situation, that there have been more than five thousand tips regarding this case, and I am just going to briefly mention two of them because I think they're interesting and important.

The first tip is that a server at one of Cheryl's favorite restaurants, I think it's called George's Steakhouse in Springfield said that the women came in sometime between one and three am, and was this all three women or yes, it was all three women. They all arrived together and departed together, and she said that Susie seemed to be really drunk and upset about something and Cheryl was trying to calm her down the whole time. But even that was a regular hang out of hers of Cheryl's. Yeah,

the police seemed to discount this a little bit. They say, you know, it's really popular and it was really busy, so it's possible she was mistaken it for a different night, which is fair. I mean, you know, if they could have gone there Friday night instead to celebrate graduation and that it just got a little mixed up and it's not on you know, at eighteen or nineteen when you're drunk and you know, emotional times of graduation are happening.

The other thing is witness testimony is not all that reliable, as we talked about. Have you guys, I just watched the other day. Have you seen that movie Horns with um yeah, Daniel Daniel Redcliffe. I just watched that the other day. And that guy has been doing some weird movies and he's been doing a good job in him because I'm sure that after eight Harry Potter films he

wants to do anything not normal. But there's a there's a scene where somebody is making a claim and it turns out there making this claim because they want to be the star in front and center and there's but people do that weird crap, you know. Oh well I want to be I want to be remembered forever. I want to help. Yeah, and yeah people, it is the

attention thing. Yeah. Another tip is that a woman said that she saw a woman matching Susie's description driving an early modeled Dodge Van that was described as either moss or Celery Green, depending on where you read or hear about it. The witness that that Susie looked like she had been crying heavily and was turning the van around that she was driving, and uh said that a she heard a male voice say, don't do anything stupid as

Susie was turning the van around. Because of this tip, the police got a van that matched to the description. It was the same year, make and model and painted it the color that was described and put it out in front of the police station with the sign that was like, hey, if you see a van like this, let us know of it. I love this fan. Do you know why I love this fan? Because it looks like the Scooby Doo Gang van kind of. It's kind of the right color, it's kind of the right make

and model. It's really funny. But how do you think I think of Scooby Doo and Gang. No, but I really it's it's just I love whenever I can find a Scooby Doo reference to the story. You know the thing out that van. The only place I ever saw pictures of it was on Disappeared, that episode that they did on this they they're a picture of it is

attached to all three of the Women's Charlie Project page. Okay, so it's it's accepted more than just the disappeared, because I I would have a problem if it was just the disappeared. Yeah, yeah, I have lots of problems with disappeared. And I don't know if we want me to get on that shoapbox, I think gonna be long enough at this. Yeah, yeah, but no, I agreed. I did see it places. Yeah, that was my thing. I was like foote But I don't know for sure. Yeah, it could have been recreation.

Who knows. They recreate dramatic recreation, not just to recreate. The picture of that van um is on the Charlie Project website, So I I'm going to accept it as a real thing. Okay, so that a dramatic vein. Yeah, they ever after they got this van, they ever show it to their witness and say, hey, just look like actually yeah they it better still have a van lineup. No, that's why they matched the color was because they said it was this the color you were describing, And she said, yeah,

it was the color um. But so she actually didn't know that this like man hunt was happening for a few days. Was this daytime, by the way, or nighttime? It was morning? But I thought she she didn't report this for week well, that was it. She didn't know it was happening, so she didn't report it. I think it was like a week and a half after something that um, and her story was um, I guess corroborated kind of by a newspaper boy who was delivering. So it was an it was in the early morning, Um,

he was delivering what he said, the van was brown. Um. But that gives us a bit of a time frame as well, that it was kind of earlier in the morning, but it was light out. It wasn't It's June, so it's not like yeah. And then a man later told authorities that he had seen a van matching the description that we've just talked about that was being driven by a blonde woman. Well it was. It was parked in a grocery parking lot. Um. But the woman behind the

wheel was a blonde woman. And he wrote down the license plate number because for some reason he thought it was suspicious. This was before he knew that it was tied up and missed disappearance. But he tossed the paper he wrote the license plate number down before he contacted the police. And then he contacted the police, and then the police said all right, well, we're going to hypnotize you then to find out what the license plate number was, and he was only able to recall three of the digits,

the first three digits of the license plate. So those are some interesting, incredible tips. Why in the hell do they hypnotize people don't know? It's just suggestions. I know it's bad. It actually can introduce more unreliable Oh yeah, every time it's like, what was it the Catty murders? When they hypnotize that one kid, All this stuff comes out. But what was the question you asked? Like, we never get to hear what the questions were specifically, it's just

what the answers were because they're leading you. I don't know if you guys have done it. I've gone to a hypnotist before and they are hugely leading. You didn't have managed to hypnotize me. Maybe that's because he sucked at that's why his questions were so leading. I don't know. But well, you're on a soapbox already again. It's okay, let's talk about theories. Um, and I just want to

quickly do a little bit of a disclaimer. Some of the people we're going to talk about did some pretty really horrible, and we're going to talk about it, not graphic detail. But some of our listeners are like under fifteen, so like maybe closer ears. Yeah, most of ours. Most of our listeners are pretty tough. Yeah, most of them. I just don't want you to you old girls nightmarage. I still feel bad about that. Yeah, yeah, I mean too.

And there are literally no happy theories here. There's no run away and join the There's no one, I don't think, on this planet who believes that something good happened to these women. Extremely unlikely. Yeah, with that being said, let's go ahead and start into the theories. The brother our first suspect. Yeah, yeah, that brother. Yeah, we're doing We're doing suspects as theories. I guess I don't think he

was ever really a suspect. That was I think he was a person of interest and as soon as they actually interviewed him, they decided or just kidding, he did have a drinking problem, But then again, he would he drank. I would say, I would say that he had a drinking problem in that he got really angry when he drank as much as he drank, So I would qualify that as a drinking problem versus somebody who drinks a lot, and it's still like you can hang out with him

and that's fine. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, so that and that's a sad thing about it, is that that guy's kind of a rift in the family. Yeah, it did. And he had recently gotten into a fight with his mother and sister. His sister used to his sister used to live with him, Um, and he got really angry and drunk one night and they got in a huge fight, and so she left and um, Susie and Cheryl had decided at that point that they would just no longer be in contact cut him off. Yeah, they were cutting

him off basically. He's obviously I don't think he's real, like a real suspect at all. I think they looked into him because he was a male who was connected to the story, and he was an easy person to you know, say, well it wasn't that person and people you look at first family and you know and stuff like that, family, ex boyfriends, ex girlfriends. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I saw an interview with him and yeah, he didn't do it. No, I don't think so it didn't. No.

Next is the mafia. Apparently there are a lot of local rumors. I couldn't find anything to robberate anything, except for a bunch of people on either Reddit or web sleuth saying, well, I'm a local and I heard this. Apparently Sheryl's sister was involved in the mafia, and this was a mafia hit to hurt the sister. I don't Yeah, so I don't know. I don't think so, because unless the mafia's changed that they used to have kind of a code of a code of ethics about stuff like this,

about leaving leaving the family out of things. Yeah, especially female members of family members. And wait, what was Cheryl's last name? Love it? Well know her maiden name was. It's not a very Italian sound. No, that's true, I don't remember you. That's why I'm asking it is either because you never see it used. But I don't know that you're required to be to be Italian to be

in the mob, though, No you're not. But I would think that to be somebody to be in a place where we're gonna whack your family, let will of hit, You've got to be really deep in the family and probably grew up in it. Yeah. Probably. I didn't get that impression at all from this single mom who's a hairdresser. Yeah, she was a hairdresser. By the way, we didn't mention that she was a hairdresser. Oh yeah, No, she had totally had that birch blonde hair. All three of them.

The hair was just three of them. The entire town that they call it the Kansas Clock Actually no, seriously, that's what it's called Kansas that anyway. Next, uh, I guess a group of people is um Dustin Recla or Michael Clay or Joseph Friedel or all three together some combination there. So Dustin was actually Susie's boyfriend, and tell about March. I'm guessing it was that. It's never like explicitly said, but she broke up with him after this

thing that we're going to talk about. All three of these men were charged with the men they were young men. They were like eighteen seventeen nineteen. They were charged with felony institutional vandalism for breaking into a mausoleum on February twenty one. Classic guys, really classy. Oh Steve, pretty close though, But oh Steve, I'm marry. I have to worry about these things. I don't know how long you're going to

be married for I have Google calendar tell me yeah, yeah, better. Um. So this was actually the reason that Susie broke up with Dustin. She apparently was hanging out with the boys and didn't know that that was the plan until suddenly she was there at a mausoleum and they were breaking into things, and you know, virtually I would I would not want to date a grave robber. No, me neither. So she broke up with him, and she provided at a statement to the police which was instrumental in the

conviction of these three boys. Men. And they have just to describe their crime a little bit more. They are not only broke into the mausoleum, they took some skulls out of the mausoleum, a bunch of skulls, and some other skeleton bones, skeleton bones, skeletal remains um and Dustin actually sold twenty six grams of gold fillings from the skulls at a local pond shop. I believe that's where he sold it. And the dude who worked there was like, yeah, I'll buy him from you, but then I'm going to

call the cops. Yeah, because I'm sorry. You're pretty damn obvious. They were probably a few full on gold teeth in there. They look like teeth. They're very It's a little surprising because I thought that's what the people at the funeral homes did. Yeah, I thought, yeah, I thought they pulled those before they buried peoples. Oh no, in Springfield, get it gets some sort of specially pay fivefore we won't

rob the corps. Maybe he who knows. So there's this little tidbit that gets thrown around a lot that I think is like blown way out of proportion. But apparently after the cops were called, they went to, uh question Dustin. His sister answered, um, she didn't let them in, but they were able to see behind her that there were a lot of occult things like am and according to

the Disappeared episode, red candles. So that's I think that's so crazy, blown out of proportion, because especially because they say, oh, when they came back the next day, Dustin was there and all the things were gone, and it's just kind

of like, oh my god. In the early nineties, you gotta remember there was such a weird devil worship panic in this country though people were specially Springfield is like you would you call it Central and West I mean, it's it's in that Bible belt to me, And there were i mean even where I lived in in Oregon, there was a bit of that, oh my gosh, don't do this, it's safe. But also in the nineties, right, that was like the start of the hot topic generation.

You know, it's like you have both the goth hot topic kind of punk rocker kids growing up as well as the people who are really scared of most people. And to have some red candles really means that you're dumb and shop at Spencer's more than it does you're worshiping the devil. But okay, yeah, and it probably wasn't some giant tapestry. It was probably a damn poster held up with it. Probably was a poster of like a

band that just happened to band post something. Yeah, that would make sense generally speaking, when you're if you're worshiping the devil, you don't actually put obvious signs where they can be seen right from your front door. Yeah, that's the other part, in the back room or something like that. Well, according to the local police, they always had signs with

an air that's a devil worshiping this way. The way they made it out to me is when I was that age, So I don't think it was any of these boys, Although apparently Dustin gave an interview in which he said he hoped the women were dead. Well, he might have been upset with Susan. I'm sure he was. He had been charged at and that was a pretty dumb thing to do. When they're like, hey, we're going to question you in conjunction with the disappearance of three

women who are probably dead. For you to say, yeah, I hope they are, it's like, well, maybe that was a dumb choice, But I don't think anybody really thinks that he did it. Did he say that after they had disappeared? Is that when he said? I thought so? Okay, And I believe that too, But I thought he was being questioned in conjunction with I see. I know that he did it in front of her if I remember he was in front of a reporter, so I'm pretty sure he was at the courthouse, probably had to go

in for a hearing. He realizes he's gonna get the entire book thrown at him at his curious and has to take it out on somebody. So let's blame that bleep who turned me in. Let's say some really bad things about her. I think that's exactly what I think. That's what everybody thinks pretty much. But he's on the list of suspects. Yeah, but yeah again, great robbing is bad, but it's not quite like mass murder. Yeah. So next is um Larry Dwayne Hall. This guy is weird. It's

kind of developmentally disabled, I think is the term. Well, but he's creepy looking. I don't mean like, you know his mental factor charge manson creepy looking. Yes, and he's got the big mutton chops and he was a civil warrior actually with his twin. Yes, he's a twin, Gary and Larry. Yeah, because because parents, if you have twins, don't be so freaking cute to name your kids with rhyming similar names when one of them ends up to be a psychopaa did you go do you know, making

the normal one feel even weirder? But yeah, know it was because correct me if I'm wrong here. Joe Gary was the normal one and it was Larry who had it was born with an umbilical quarter on his neck because this is what I heard. Yeah, okay, because that's oxygen deprivation. As a child. Yeah, so he was a little what did you call it development? Yeah, that might

be an offensive term by now, I don't know. I apologize my aggression, I know, but anyway, Yeah, so he was very low like you or is or is I should say, well, yeah, and Helogy is still alive about in prison of course. Okay, So Devin, what what's this guy? He was traveling in the area, right, yeah, right for a recreation, wasn't it. Well there was. There was like a bunch of happening. Well, yeah, his because it was

going to keep screwing their names up. Way to go, parents, I'm going to keep complaining about this family of the noble One had gotten into Civil War reenactments, and he got Larry into it because Gary always had friends, and Larry was the one who sat in the corner by himself, and he brought him to those and he started making friends.

And I know that like one of the reason he that Larry really liked it is because he could grow the big mutton chops and hide the fact that he had really bad acne, because if you see the pictures of him, they're massive mutton chops um like the size of Pennsylvania. But but I know that he he was. You know, obviously the guy had something wrong because he didn't shower all the time. Like that was one of the reasons that people wouldn't hang out with him is

he didn't shower. But if you're going to do a really realistic civil war reenact, that's it's perfect right, But you don't. You don't show up to the month at a time meeting stinking of your own filth. Probably okay, well, but um, okay, you're right. What was I thinking? Obviously Larry needed a caretaker, but no, but he um. He got arrested in nineties three for the me I believe it's the murder of Lori to Peas and he drove

a van like this. This guy. I really wanted to be this guy because it makes it so easy, except for the fact that his mental faculties make it so hard to pin him down. Because he had a van, he would pick up girls and by his own admission, sometimes nothing happened and he left them, you know, he took them somewhere, or sometimes they didn't like He covers one lady to come to his van so he could show her a photo album of antique cars. Girls don't be nice to the guy who gives you the creeps, Like,

don't go to his van. Never, Like it doesn't even if he doesn't give you the creeps, because some of the people were going to talk to, like on the face value, if I didn't know their criminal history, I'd be like, yeah, me be, I'd go to your van with you. Don't ever go to somebody's van. Just don't do it. Don't do it. Yeah, as a child never, Yeah, I really want to see a van bike though, bicycle, I really want to see that. Yeah. But so as as far as Hall goes, I I can't believe he

did it himself. But if he had a partner, maybe somebody with a little more brains, then well that's he suspected of abducting and possibly killing up to what is it, forty women? Okay, but but those are all one offs, Like somebody caught his attention and he followed that person and then talked them into getting into the creepy van and everything was okay, and abducted them, yes, not like murdered and disappeared them forever. And they were one off,

one at a time. That's why I really, I'd be so easy to paint it on this guy, yeah, because you can tell he's got problems. Yeah, but no, I mean I think three women as soon as as soon as they start to go bad. If you know, if you're not on top of it, there's going to be some fighting back, somebody's gonna get away. It's you know. Actually, I really kind of think that it would be it would be hard for one person to do this. I agree you two guys with guns could do it quite easily.

One guy with a gun, I suppose. I suppose. Yeah, So let me let me ask you a question. Larry, I know, according to some sources on the internet, could have been working in cahoots with his brother Gary, because some people say Gary was probably the one that was doing it and he was the mastermind and just blaming it. Yes, And and Larry of course just went along with it, not knowing any better, just admitted to what his brother told him to admit to. But Joe brings up a

good point. And I want to ask this, because I haven't seen this anywhere. Do any of our suspects, and I'm using air quotes on that, how are they have they ever been known to work with a second or third party no, except for if it were the three boys, that's the only where they could have been. We we've got a good idea of multiple Yeah, okay, yeah, next up, Stephen Eugene Garrison, Sarah killers always have a name. We

always have three. Yeah. I don't understand that. I mean, I understand if it's three first names, because I've heard that before, but it's now they just used all of their names, not always Stephen Eugene Garrison. Those really aren't first names to me. I wonder if Larry Dwayne Hall not first names? All first names Larry and Dwayne are Hall is not a first name? Well, Dwayne the way he spells it as dumb Dwayne d Wayne. Yeah, but that's not unusual. Yea, not too terribly unusual. Okay, that's so.

Garrison is currently serving forty years for raping, sodomizing, and terrorizing a female college student in the summer of Springfield. He apparently part evidently had air quote friend who was drunk at a already once and this air quote friend confessed to killing the Springfield three. And it's unclear if the police believed that this was an actual friend or if it was an air quote friend as I've been referring to it. As he gave testimony, he said, Hey,

actually I know something about the Springfield Three. I know about those missing women. Did he was this in the context of he was already in prison or he was yeah, and and friend? Is this in the context of I'm calling the radio or I'm going to the doctor to ask about this thing that my friend quote friend? And I don't know if the police believe that it was a friend that told him all this stuff or if he was just he's only serving forty years somehow for raping, sodomizing,

and terrorizing a female. But hey, cool, he's going to get out sometime in his life. So if he admitted to doing the Springfield Three, obviously he would never get out. Um he was able to provide information that was unknown to the public, and um. Some of the formation led investigators to serve three search warrants on a property that had been owned by a name man named Francis Lee rob sr Is that the farm one of the places I think I seem to remember them going to was,

you know, doing multiple checks on was a farm. I don't know if you remember what are we talking about? The farm that was owned by the concrete guys, we'll talk about Okay, this is a different parcel of land. Um. And it turns out Francis Lee Rob Senior, because he's got three names too, is also a convicted murderer. No seniors on a name, it's a suffix. He pled guilty to a second degree murder in conjunction with a drug

deal gone awry. Uh. And apparently police initially thought Garrison might have been responsible, and then they kind of backed off that he's just a person of interest now because he was able to provide so many details that weren't well, so they thought he was potentially the murderer. But they but they also I presume, got a name of the friend, Lee Rob. Yeah, well that was the friend who owned the property that I mean, I don't know that it was the friend. This is the guy who owned the

property that um. Garrison statements led the police to search who also happens to be a murderer. I'm so glad I'm not a cop and have to deal with that cat and mouse game of Well, I don't want to tell you who the friend is, but if you go to such and such address, oh, well that's where Mr Rob lifts. Yeah, well is it Mr Rob your friend? Well, no, I don't want to run out of my friends, but it's such a weird time to get ubber hose. Yeah. Yeah. So next up is Gerald Carnahan. So it turns out

Springfield not a great place to be. Carnahan is serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole for the murder and rape of Jackie John's in five, which actually happened not in Springfield. It was not a He was just living in Springfield in in the early nineties and he didn't actually get a convicted of this. Yeah exactly. He got away with it, but it was pretty awful murder.

He beat her up really bad. And he was actually on vacation with his family in a motel room and came back to the motel room and his mom was like, what happened to you? He was like, I got in a fight. So she took him to the hospital because he was covered in blood, and he told the people in the er that he had bit his own tongue in a fight, but the nurse was like, nah, somebody tried to bite your tongue out of your mouth, like while you were doing something back because it's just the

way that the direction of the crescent. Yeah. Um so uh they actually found Jackie's body like like a hundred yards away from the motel that he was staying at. His criminal record is pretty long. I'm just going to read some. In January. On January he was charged with second degree burglary of a business um. On the same date, he was convicted of stealing from that business and arson to the same business. Apparently he wasn't He had some sort of a business himself and this was a competing

con business business. Yeah. Yeah. On January tenth of that same year, he was charged with the attempted kidnapping of a girl uh in Springfield. In uh June one same year, he was charged with the assault of a law enforcement officer and lost unlawful use of a weapon. So I guess spent a lot of time in jail. Yeah, he did, so, I guess for me. His murder of of Jackie John's was really really brutal, and he did not clean himself

up well. Granted it was in eighty five and the Springfield three went missing in two so he could have perfected perfected his art. God, I hate that said that, but he could have he could evolved, is the word I'm really looking for. Certainly abducting and murdering three people, Yeah, that doesn't seem to be beyond this guy. No, I don't think so. But interesting fact, I don't think the police have ever questioned him in conjunction with this case. Why not? I don't know. I think they don't think

that he's a suspect. I don't know why. I was going to say. His m O doesn't seem to match. He's a messy, bloody, sloppy killer, which doesn't match up with a physical evidence that we have, right, which is no physical evidence exactly. Next is Robert Cox. I don't like this guy. I'm sorry, I've started. Every single one of these was just a huge sigh because, oh my god, like, how many horrible people in the early of in Springfield

for real? Though? Yeah, but actually there's there's probably you know, it's probably every major sity is there's probably just I have to walk in the car tonight, So that's not well. I was gonna say, you know, if you ever really want to delve into the depths, God, what is it? Murder PDA? That is the list of serial killers and their alphabetical by state. That's a lot of them, and it's just I mean, I've done it. I've combed through it for different stories saying okay, well who was kind

of active at that time? And it always takes about a dozen or so before I go, okay, stop reading it, look at the active date because it is such a horrible thing to read, like, I don't I don't know how people can look into these kind of cases all the time. I know that's why we mix it up, because I would go bunkers, Yeah, absolutely there, Yeah, I don't know, I've got it. Some some FBI asant said at one time there's anywhere from like seven to ten

active serial killers in the US at any given time. Great, thank you for that. Yeah, you're walking, so we're going to turn to the porch light and we'll watch from the window as long as it's yeah, yeah, something bad happens. We promised to send a text to the police. Thank you. So. Robert Cox is serving a life life sentence plus a consecutive fifteen year federal sentence for a robbery in which he held a gun to a twelve year old girl

human shield. Yep. He was previously incarcerated on death row in nineteen ninety for the brutal murder of a nineteen year old woman, but the Florida Supreme Court set him free after they determined there wasn't actually enough evidence to convict him, even though he had a trial of his peers and which they thought that he was guilty. Apparently

that wasn't enough. Sometimes you know, you connect sleep convict a guy on on bad and I'm bad or skippy out, and it's just because you know that they're like, you know, well he wouldn't be here if it wasn't guilty of something. So well. In fact, so he had been extradited from California because he who's serving a jail sentence in California, and then in Florida they were like, oh, actually we

have this thing we want to charge him for. And they were like, yeah, it's a bigger sentence, no problem, Yeah, I put him on death row. Fine. Uh. And so once the Florida Supreme Court overturned his like his death row sentence he had, he went back to California to finish serving his sentence there. But I think it probably didn't help his case to be in there and for them to say like Okay, so where did you come from?

And he was like, jail in California for doing a crime that probably didn't help help we extradited you from another state. That's actually one of the reasons that a lot of these, uh, these guys that have killed so many, they'll never admit to all of them because they will either in mean two ones that are in states that don't have the death penalty, or not admit to them if it is a state with the death penalty. Because I know that Larry Dwayne Hall, that's one of the

things he won't admit to everybody. He won't even talk about him because he knows that some of those states have the death penalty. And I'm sure that Cox was probably you know, looking at the same thing Cox wasn't is he's still alive. Is a very terrifying man. He's the one you look at Did you look at pictures

of him? Oh? Yeah, he's like a fairly attractive, charismatic guy who like doesn't necessarily look creepy, Like it's creepy to know what he did and think about the fact that like if he if I were his agent, he approached me in a bar, I would probably be like, yeah, you're cute, no problem, which is scary things to admit, right that, Like sometimes Serio would look like that. Sometimes

they're not culture creepy. Sometimes that's true. So until later in life they at that tattoo between their eyes on the forehead with the yeah. So the zelo um I forgot to mention. So after after he finished his his term term sentence sentence in California, he was released and returned to his childhood home of Springfield, Missouri. Yea, Springfield, yea, it's kind of a weird Springfield's a weird little nexus point.

Did you either of you notice that if you look at it on the map, there is a lot of major arterials, freeways and highways and stuff that kind of cut through it. Like the border of it. It almost looks like a triangle on its side, you know, like to play symbol on your DVD player. It's that shape. And that's because those three sides are created by major roads. And so it's one of those places that we've talked about these kind of places before. They're dangerous to live

in because every creep drifts through them. Yeah, it's uh, it's true. It's it's a fairly large spread out town and and yeah, lots of highways. So yeah, you're getting all the all the worst of the worst driving through town any given time. Well, the thing is is, you know it's hard to track down, but did you actually find where their house was on the map? Yeah, you know, I didn't. I looked at the hospital. Well I found their house because if you dig deep enough you can

find their address. It's not so deep. Yeah, well but it's not a lot of the places just ignore it. But the point is I found the house. It's actually on a main four lane road. It's like a block off of it actually makes it super easy to get

it out. An interesting thing about where that witness saw maybe Susie driving the van was that it would have been if she had just taken a wrong turn instead of going to the highway, if she had taken a wrong turn, like maybe she was trying to stall or something, because it was apparently pretty quick to get the highway from their house. Yeah, it was right there, and then you were with the main business route. Yeah, so it

was like kind of the area. I got the impression it was like a cult det act like NEIGHBORHOODI area that would have been very clear that she wasn't going where she was supposed to if she was supposed to be driving on the highway anyway, Cox the woman that the family of the woman that he was on death row for killing Um. The Zeller family, Uh, they never doubted that it was Cox that murdered Um their daughter. And so they actually did a creepy, kind of horrible thing,

but in this case, awesome thing. And they tracked him. They they made note of every time he moved, because this was before they actually kept those lists public. Yeah. I don't think that's a creepy thing at all. I

think it was probably good for them, yea. So they actually Yeah, and when they found out that the Springfield three and gone missing and that Cox was in fact in the area at the time, they called the police and said, hey, just you know, this dude who's like a couple of times convicted murderer and abductor and overall horrible human being was in the area. This is kind of like his m O. You should check him out. Um. And the police have question Cox a number of times.

He's currently in jail in Texas. They've questioned him like three times, I think, and every single time it's very clear that he's toying with them. Whether he did it or not, he's getting off on toying with them. Yeah, that's probably so, probably good entertainment for him. I mean, there's not a lot to do in prison. Yeah, that's true. Did he gave an interview with a reporter once. Yeah, and that's the one that we all get to watch. I hate that interview. Oh he is so horrible, he

says um. He stated multiple times, like dead pan to camera. Well I know they're dead, and I know they're buried somewhere near the city. I just know, he says, I just I just know. Actually, and they probably are dead and buried somewhere near the city. It's highly likely. And that maybe he maybe, you know, pulling the same card that all those drug store psychics do, but he's pulling it off in a way creepier way because he doesn't

have the turbine and he doesn't have the globe. Yeah. Well, so that there are some other really big problems with the Cox. Thing is that they did they questioned him because the Zeller. It was it was quick. It wasn't like months and months after the women went missing. They heard about this once it hit the national news and they called the police. Um, and so within a week they were they were questioning Cox and he said, oh, you know, um, it couldn't possibly been me because I

was with my girlfriend. Yes, he had a girlfriend and her horrible and we were actually at church early on Sunday morning, so I couldn't have been involved at all. You know. I was at home asleep and then we woke up and went to church. And his girlfriend corroborated that story. She said, oh, yeah, no, he we went to church that morning, everything was normal, he was there. Uh. And it wasn't until later after they broke up and he was convicted of another crime that they requestioned her

and she said, oh no, no, I was lying. Yeah, No, he wasn't home. I don't know where he was. Yeah, here's a question, you know, I think we've talked about this before, maybe not, but I just always wonder how far is it routine to go to check a witness alibi. In other words, when the girlfriend says, yeah, we were at church, Oh really, okay, great, what church did you

go to? What's the name of the pastor, And then go to the damned church and asked the people were there That's what makes this kind of a weak alibis because it's pretty easy to break. Yeah, so I just don't know. It depends on how big the church community is. I mean, really, you know, if it's a really big community, it's totally reasonable to expect that nobody would be able to remember if you know, one man was missing from a group. I don't know they should have You're right,

they have. The parish knows if oh, yeah, she always comes by herself. He he works late, she says, or yeah, it was weird he wasn't there at that time. Like that, those things come out. People love to talk about each other, but it's less than less. So if it's like, yeah, he comes with her, sometimes he doesn't. Other times, I don't know what happened. But anyway, it turns out he had he had another alibi, which was turns out he

after that one fell through. He he's swore uping down if he was as he stayed the night at his parents place, and his parents his parents corroborated that the girlfriend backed out. Yeah yeah, then he said no, no no, I was at my parents house. But at that point I would just not be believing the guy. Although even if he didn't have a good alibi. It doesn't mean he killed anybody. True. Well, actually I guess he did kill somebody, but yeah, not maybe maybe not, So he

actually did. He worked with Stacy his father um for a while, not when they went went missing, but he did work with her father and would have met her when she brought dinners to her father at work. Her father was in the service department. Okay, yeah, service department of what I think it was like a mechanic shop where it was a dealership, Yeah, dealership, So he was working on cars there and then uh, Cox didn't have

that job anymore. And actually when the women went missing, he was employed as a utility locator, which means that he was the guy who would knock on your door and say, hey, there's a problem with your gas line. You got to get out at two o'clock in the morning. It would help to have an official van, an official uniform, Yeah, sure would. Well, the green van didn't seem to have gas company printing on the side of it. Didn't know, But if you've got a dude with the uniform, I mean,

I don't know. Maybe he had a magnet they make those. Well I was gonna say is. You know, the magnets weren't that common at that time. I remember them kind

of coming out in the early nineties. But I also I don't think personally that I look or the gas company van because you look to see if the guys in his uniform, because the gas company has so many people in so many vehicles, god knows what the Yeah, especially if your porchlight is out, you're not going to be able to see if there's writing on the side of the van. Probably as much. Um the guy just showed up at the gun and didn't bother with the uniform. Possible, yeah, yeah.

And actually Cox had abducted a woman in five that seemed to be a big gear for getting abducted. Um. She was in an airport parking lot. Um. And he pulled a duffel bag full of automatic weapons and survival gear out of his trunk and threw it in her car and instructed her to drive to the mountains. She managed to escape by somehow convincing Cox that they should stop by her friend's house. He's an idiot, um yeah um. And then Cox held the friend hostage at gunpoint until

the survived and arrested him. He's still an idiot and he had it. Turns out the way he had he had just forced her to drive by sticking a gun in her side, which I think is an important note because he could have been forcing Stacy to drive. Absolutely well, Yeah, it's very easy. He could have pulled a gun on one the other two. Okay, you kneel down her, I shoot her in the side. Okay, now you tie her up. Now you tie her up, now you drive. Yeah, I mean it's a very easy order to guess how it

might have happened. Yeah, absolutely so, I think I I think he's a strong contender. I don't know people who could have done it. I still why not? It's um,

it's another one of those too easy. He's made so many grandstanding attempts or not attempts, but he just stood up and he shouted at the world so many times I know something about this case when at the same time it's I'm locked in prison forever and nobody cares like he just wants something to be to people to look at him, because it's not uncommon for these guys to have this goal of I'm gonna go down in history as this, and then when that whole thing falls apart, crap,

What else will I be remembered for? I got to do something, and so they you know, they kind of spitball something else together. I just he just he begs for attention. He begs for it too much for me to buy him. Now he hasn't. He said that he knows what happened, but he's not going to tell until after his mother dies. Yeah. Okay, that right there, that's a total crap line, absolute garbage. You know what, you just don't want to tell. You want people to to to root for your mom to die. Why Why did

somebody kill his mother? Okay, okay, your mom just happened to have a little accident in the parking lot. You know they do of this crap on TV. Is they say, I'm sorry your mom died. Mom is totally in on it, families totally in on it. Called dad dad, Yes, she died. It was so tragic, it was so sudden. And then the cops are like, hey, so they remember us. I could totally totally be done and I'm sure it's been

done before. I don't think it could in his case because his parents have provided his alibi for him, right, I mean, like at some point it's like they are supporting him. Either he was at their house and so they are confident that he didn't do it, so they don't need to fake the death because he has nothing to say or he wasn't and they know he wasn't and they know he did something, and they're not going to fake the death because why they're backing him up

already and makes some liars. Maybe it's simplest thing to do is just kill her. This is okay, So we've got we've got in the wrong direction of trying to get the other really big question is where are their remains? Right? Yeah, So there's a hospital in Springfield called Cox Hospital. I think it's isn't it Cox Memorial South Hospital or something like that. It's a very low name. Yeah, there's no relation yeah to the six Yeah okay, um, and they were in the process of building a new parking garage

that was poured concrete. A lot of people believe that their remains are actually the Springfield three remains are in the body of all three women? Are there? Who did they originally get a tip about this? There's actually got a lot of tips about it. Um, like a lot of tips. I don't remember how many it was, I would say it was more than fifty, and said, I

think their remains are probably there. And the garage has been surveyed by a engineer of some kind of can't remember what kind of engineer he is, but he they have like he's like the sonar technology that yeah, training radar exactly, So yeah that thing. Um, and he actually worked with the government after nine eleven to help recover the body bodies after all of that stuff, so he's got a pretty solid track record. He came out and scanned the garage and um, they didn't say really anything.

They just said, we're we want to see if there are some anomalies here. And he did the little And that's a reporter who brought him out, right, she is an investigative reporter. Yeah, yeah, she's when he started. Yeah, I just trained. I think she actually even even hired him. She did. It's what's her name, Kathy something, Yeah, um, and she hired him to come out and I you know, the story is presented that she said, but we don't. We just want to know if there's some anomalies here.

And he scanned the whole thing and he said, yeah, there's three right here. Uh, to our parallel and one it's perpendicular to them. And you know, it's not a perfect picture, but if I had to guess, it would be kind of what we would see at a grave site. Yep. He said it was about three feet down and she said, cool, let's dig this thing up. And the police said, Nah. Doesn't have the best relationship with the Springfield Police for being an investigative reporter. She seems to have really wrapped

up the wrong way. And I think that most of these murmurs come from her. But there are murmurs out there that there's been kind of a willful slowing down or something similar of this case. I don't buy it. But there are some people out there who say, like the police aren't doing everything they could, which in this one instance, I will agree, Like, it wouldn't be so hard to get a freaking core sample, don't You don't

have to start the whole thing up. Just take a core sample, like near are one of the anomalies and stick a camera down there. That's what they're gonna do. Yeah, two hole, Yeah, stick a camera. Or you get one of those body sniffing dogs and just let them loosen nearby and see if he makes a bee line for the whole Yeah, there's a check on that. Yeah, so that would be well, you know, I've actually I've thought about this a lot. Okay, So the hospital doesn't want

to do it unless they have to write. So of course their statement is we will comply with any request from law enforcement. That they say law enforcement in this case enthusiastic and law enforcements not enthusiastic. And I gotta tell you, I'm pretty I'm pretty sure that at this point law enforcement is not enthusiastic because they know they're gonna get nowhere. Like they've been dealing with it for

over twenty years. They are tired of people bringing it up because they've gone to every length and if they look, they're going to open up another cannon worms because if they find something, they're gonna have to dig it up, and then it's gonna be, well, we found the bodies, but we don't know jack squat or look the body down't there, and people are just gonna bring the whole thing up. And I think it's total bad publicity for

that police department. I think it's I think it's actually worse for them to just be sitting on their hands and not not taking taking advantage of this, because I don't disagree with that at all. Not cost much of anything to do some core samples. Actually you don't even do to do three, you just do one. But you know what, the guy in charge, he says, I don't want us to go through this, uh, this guano storm that's about to erupt if we open this up, we're

just gonna push it aside and do nothing. He doesn't think about it that way. He just thinks, I don't have to do We don't we we're not going to deal with it. We're just done. We're done. I'm finished. That's all they're doing. I know that's what they're thinking. Can we talk about the farm real quick? Oh? Yeah, yea ya yah yah yah yea yeah yeah. So this is my my interesting little bit about this theory. I

guess that they're buried there. Um. The police have searched this area in Webster County twice, once in and then again in two thousand two. The first time they refused to disclose what they found there. So they could have found absolutely nothing whatsoever. Could have found absolutely nothing whatsoever, but they the way they refused to disclose it is they said that there were private details pertaining to the case that they discovered, so they weren't going to release

any of the details. Um, which is a suspicious way to say we didn't find anything, But it's a way that you could say, but they might have found something that was unrelated to the case that led them to a completely different case. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, Hey, look it turns out the guy's got a giant pot farm. The second time they went, it was because two women called

in a tip. The specifics of said tip are hazy at best, UM, but they did say that two men who were employed at the local concrete company owned this property in the nineteen nineties um, and that the men owned a van that was very similar to the one described vibed. And also that the men left the area the Springfield area, like within two weeks of the Springfield

three disappearing. And I think it's interesting just just on pure coincidence, I guess, since with this it's easy to just go on pure coincidence that two dudes who own a van that's similar to this, that their their land was searched really soon after that who happened to work for the local concrete company, which likely provided the poured

concrete for said therefore, they've known the site. They've known the site and would have been able to go and like lay some concrete and probably people wouldn't be like, oh, there's an extra layer of concrete there. This tip from those two women came like ten years after the fact. Yeah, why West, What did it take him so long to remember this? I don't know if it took him so long, they'll remember it. If they didn't come for I don't

know what. And it may have been in conjunction with because that's about the time and I can't remember exactly when they did them search for the anomalies penetrating gradar, but it could have been the It was similar, It was close to that. As soon as they started saying, you know, they might be in the concrete that these

women were like, oh, actually that would that's weird. So there would therefore have The names of these two men are correct, I presume, but I've never seen them released anywhere. The names. I am really intrigued, and I agree with both of you that just take this core sample, see what the hell is down there. But at the same time, I've worked on enough construction sites to know that holes in the ground because ground penetrating radar is not perfect. It's not what you see on the TV. Doesn't give

you this crystal clear image. It's just this weird black and white lines thing. I mean, there's nothing great about it. And I worked on enough construction sites where the dumb guy with the shovel or the baco kept digging more than he needed to and the boss yelled at i mean, told him to stop, and so he smoothed it out and then they poured stuff on top of it. It could be as simple as that. It could They're kind of suspiciously laid out for it to be that, But

it could be that. I'm not willing to rule anything else. Well that's what I'm saying. Like the guy with the backo, he takes a grab, he takes another grab, he's goofing around. Yeah, Like I've been in site where the guy in charge who shouldn't have been in charge, Like, hey, he would have run a little backo. It's really fun. And then I watched some idiot like whales somebody's house with a bucket.

That reminds me of a story. Yeah, it's the thing that was that you know it doesn't isn't necessarily corpses. But we are looking for three bodies. There are three anomalies which are all side by side down there. All we know is that the plane of this is the plane of the soil, the profile, the horizons have been disturbed. They're at the same compaction. That's what it's. It's figuring out, yea, and they're different. It would mean prey dug worth checking out,

you know. Yeah, it just seems like just do it easier anyway. And as my last thought, Cox seems like a cocky enough kind of dude that if there were some way to dispose of somebody's in some way that would be like his name, if he did it, I wouldn't It wouldn't shock me to find out that he managed to somehow bury them in a construction site next to the Cox Hospital, just because he was kind of a jerk like that. Yeah, it would be kind of like an in your face kind of thing. Yeah, remember me,

you know. Anyway, that's this I don't have I'm sorry, I don't. It's not solved. I have nothing else, but oh, I'm pretty sure that they're on Vesuvius two five seven. Yeah, that's the only happy. Those are your happy places that you go there. They were abducted by cute, cuddly kitten aliens and spend their days petting kittens and feeding them. Happy kitten. That's really the only way to go with this. I think that's fair. Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean it's

possible they're alive. I mean maybe they were sold into slavery. Another happy way to go. That's and I don't that seems strange because people getting sold into slavery are usually very young and individuals who are very They are in that really risky lifestyle and they're very vulnerable. Three adult women. Yeah, that doesn't seem like, oh we got a cash drop right there. Yeah, No, I wasn't being too serious there, Okay, it wasn't. I don't think they were sold in slavery.

I don't know. I mean, no signs of a struggle, nothing really out of the ordinary. There shouldn't have been a struggle. And that's one one good thing about the whole contamination of the house is that if the guy just basically walks in with a gun or guys walks in, says you're coming with us, and leads them out again, that really would have been much of any way anything

in the world in terms of evidence anyway. Yeah yeah, well, and you know they're the neighbors aren't particularly far away, and they didn't hear any sign any struggles or anything like that, so that I mean, at least we know nobody cleaned that up. Yeah. Yeah, So there you go. There's a happy mystery. You guys asked for this one, You've got more, are really happy, all of them. Like I am going to have to spend a lot of time meditating on our walls because this is going to

be a fun month. Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah yeah, anything else to add cool, Well, if you want to read some of the links that we used to research, or you want to download the episode, or you already know where to download it, you don't need that, awesome, Um, you can go ahead and check out our website. That website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. We're on iTunes, as you know, leave us a comment, ratings, subscribe, stream us anywhere, leave us comments there. I guess too, that's

a thing, right cool. We're on social media. You can find us on Twitter at Thinking Sideways. We've got Facebook, the group and the page, and we have a subreddit. Um, forget about that thing. Yeah, I know, I know you do. Everybody does. It's really really, it's very sad. You can send us an email if you have something to add or suggestions, or I just want to say, hey, just want to tell us how awesome we are. Yep. That email addresses Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com, and

we're on Patreon. If you feel like uh supporting the show, you should head over to Patreon dot com slash Thinking Sideways. Um and thanks. That having been said, I'm going to get out of here with three of us are going to disappear. How many weeks we're in the month of October four plus? I just realized we screwed up. There are five Thursdays in this month, alright, five episodes, five episodes of Most Wanted. That's fine, Bye everybody, By guys,