Thinking Sideways: The Nazi Bell

or may not have heard about. It's called the Nazi Bell. That's right, the Nazi Bell. I had never heard of this, and I consider myself to be a strong mystery buff on solved mysteries. I know, I would say that the things that we do, I've heard of before we do them. I hadn't heard about this until about a month ago when I came across an article somehow I think it was advertised on something and what is that? And I hadn't heard about it until you sent me a link

to that article. Yeah, yeah, this is right up your alley. Yeah. So anyway, you know, I jumped on a plane and went to Germany, dug through the Nazi archives and well, here's what I found. Well, not really. Yeah, as soon as we get a budget, then we're gonna be doing stuff like that. Uh, we're gonna actually be covering a lot of unsolved mysteries in places like Hawaii, um, you know, a lot of Paris. Very nice. Yeah. So anyway back

to the Nazi Bell. The Nazi Bell was pretty much unknown as far as the world is concerned until the year two thousand. Polish writer named Igor Vitkowski published a book called The Truth about the Wounderwaffa. Of course, of course that was not It was a Owlish books, so obviously it wasn't in English, but yeah, the Truth about the Wonder Weapon. He describes this this thing as being about about nine ft wide, about twelve to fifteen feet high,

and shaped like a bell. Other descriptions you guys can see here. Oh yeah, by the way, he had a Nazi swastick on the side the bell did, of course. Yeah, yeah, naturally. Uh. Alternative descriptions have described it as a saucer shaped object. But for the most part, saucer looks just like the NASA saucer we were talking about earlier, the thing that they're sending to marks. I like that yeah, I like a little chimney in the top, tough in the wheel, like the car sticking out from you. Yeah, well I

think that actually has a car park behind. But yeah, that thing looks a little crude. I'm not sure this was actually the wounder of Offa or not. But anyway, there's also you can find pictures of the bell. Of course, those are pictures that have either been you know, paintings by artists or recreation or recreations that people have taken pictures of. So nobody has a picture of the actual Nazi bell. So are we saying we don't actually know

that it existed, even that's that's the possibility. That's no. No, you can't say that it definitely existed, but we can't say it definitely didn't either. Well I guess not. Okay, Well we'll solve that mystery before the show is over.

So I know why yougo. Vitkowski published his wounderboff A book, and the way he found out about is he claims to have had a contact in Polish intelligence and this Polish intelligence officer allowed him to look at a file which had a transcript of an interview by Polish agents of a Nazi s S officer whose name was I'm just gonna pronounce it in regular English Jacob Sparenberg. And it might be Yakuber, who knows, but I'm just gonna

say Jacob Sparenberg. Uh. Supposedly in this transcript he described the bell and apparently some of its wondrous capabilities. And Vikkowski, the author never said who in Polish intelligence actually shared this with him. There's no documentation, Yeah, I know source and the the you know, the supposed transcripted the interrogation. Nobody's ever seen it. And what did they call it? The bell? The bell? Yeah, and German it's called it's

called gluca, which is German for the bell. Okay, yeah, yeah, it's just called the bell. And when Igor was looked at these files, if when I was doing the reading, when I found a little off putting was the fact that, yeah, he couldn't say who gave it to him, that makes sense, and they wouldn't give him a copy of it, which if it's from intelligence I can understand. So he hand

wrote a transcript of it. So all we have is his handwritten copy of it, which seems like a guy could have just sat around and made up right off the start, I'm a little I'm a little worried about this. Yeah, that's uh, that's that's a good point. I mean he could have, but like, is it is it suspicious because he was allowed to like take a transcript of it? Is that what suspicious to you know? Just I think

what he's saying is that I'll go ahead. Sorry, Uh, there's just I mean, there's no other way for him to have gotten that information out of there except for to handwrite it. It's to make some notes. Yeah, yeah, it's I guess what what's hinky to me is that it's not an official transcript, so therefore we don't know

if it really happened. So the first piece of the puzzle I'm already questioning, I guess is where I'm getting at, Because if you know, let's say, the Freedom of Information Act in this country, I could request that document and have that document heavily redacted, whether it's redacted or not, I'd have that document as my base, whereas this guy

doesn't have anything. So that's that's yeah, and its it's it's believable that if he was allowed to see as some sort of secret file like that, that he would only be able to make notes and not make copies or anything. I take photos. But at the same time, now, yeah, you're right, it's there's no documentation. Almost more worrying to me that he was allowed to take notes, right, because if they're like, yeah, this is a class by thing, you can look at it, but you can't take any

written anything out of here. You know, you can't make a copy of it, that makes more sense to me than I'm saying, Yeah, take all the notes you want. Yeah, you can trade in your own hand. Yeah, that's totally fine. Whatever, But uh, you know, and I guess this Polish intelligence officer never showed this transcript to anybody else or no one else who couldn't keep their mouth shuts, and maybe

you got some of them got whacked. So the people who say that the saucer it's a saucer shaped object rather than a bell shaped objects said it is powered by a pair of rotating drums containing a mysterious irridescent purple liquid. So okay, that's uh. But typically it's described as a device that's made out of heavy heart metal about nine ft wide twelve fift tall, bell shaped Nazi swastick like I said, before the story was picked up by a guy named Nick Cook. And we'll talk about

in a few more more. Well, i'll talk I'll talk about it now. What the hell? Nick Cook used to be the aviation editor for Jane's Defense Weekly, and you got you guys have heard of James correct, of course? Yeah, yeah, they like to go to source for everything about war planes and warships and all that. Stuffy sitting here, suspiciously quiet. Yeah,

and you've never heard of Jane's. Yeah, they I was I was just going, yeah, yeah, they are, like you know, you can think of Jane's is almost like a private intelligence service. I mean they gather a lot of information and they're very, very credible, and so they have If you go to Jans, you can find out everything you need to know about the defense forces of any country. They've got it all mapped out. They've got it intelligence on every every plane that these people have, every submarine,

every ship, data collection for military information. And so we're saying that this guy is pretty credible, right, well, that that that gives them a little bit of an our respectability. Yeah, because this guy works Janes. Up until two thousand one, he was aviation editor for Jane and was like fired or I don't know exactly. Isn't like an outrage scandal that he left, not that I know of, But I have not actually investigated this guy's background too carefully, and

it's like, I've got a job. Seems like that would have come up in any kind of reading, and it kind of took who by the way, I was fired for making stuff up? Yeah? Actually, yeah, and I did. I read a review of his book in Salon, and Salon was you know, they were a little unkind to the book. But I think that if if he had been like booted out of Change in Disgrace, it might have been mentioned. I think that's probably true. Yeah, I'll

talk about that later. But anyway, So Nick Cook wrote a book and published it just a few years after igor Vitkowski published his book. So he was talking about anti gravity. It's called The Hunt for Zero Point. And this is Nick Cook, this is Nick Cook. So anyway, according to Nick Cook, this device contained two kind of rotating cylinders which would be filled with it a mercury like substance which was violent and color of some people who claimed that this is red mercury, which I don't

I don't even quite understand what red mercury is. Yeah, it doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. Okay, red mercury is it real? Red mercury is not real. But anyway, we got back to this. According to what Nick Cook says, the metallic liquid was code named zero five and that's spelled x c R U M, and we're not used. Was stored in a therminus flask that was encased in lead, so apparently it was dangerous stuff. Additional substances using the

experiments include thorium and brilliant peroxide. Brilliant peroxide also doesn't exist. There is such a thing as brilliant oxide, so maybe that was a type on his part. I'm not sure. You know, I've seen it referred to as peroxide on every article I came across on this, So either it's a lot of copying pasting by everybody on the internet,

or they're calling it peroxide on purpose. Because I've seen it in different it's it's not always written the same, so I know it's not cop being directly, But I have seen it called peroxide a lot of time. Yeah, I've seen the number of references to it too, and in this whole Bell thing. But I think somebody originally confused peroxide with oxide. Brilliant oxide exists from brilliant peroxide does not exist as far as we know. As far

as we know, yeah, might have made it. Yeah. Well, when I was I was looking at if they were talking about the berrillium and the thoramine. Is that thorium? Okay, thank you? They were both. Then they kept calling it peroxide because it was a gel like substance, and that seemed to be where everybody was getting the peroxide part is it was blah blah peroxide which is a gel like substance. I don't know how that relates because the science I couldn't quite follow it, but it seems that's

where they were going with this peroxide thing. Right or wrong, it seems to be what they were doing. Brilliant peroxide doesn't exist. But billium is actually actually does have some use, isn't certain things? And and and actually somebody has put forth a theory for how barrillium could have been used in the Bell to generate pure weapons. Great, uh, uranium two thirty three and no there. But there are a bunch of peroxides, right, Yeah, there are other peroxides like

moron and stuff like that, and hydrogen yeah, and hydrogen peroxide. Yeah, you're my favor. That's the only one I know science factor the day. Did you know that hydrogen peroxide is real? So anyway, maybe somebody was talking about hydrogen oxides somebody else read it and then and then confused it and got confused and hydrogen and then were auto corrected on them.

And yeah, maybe it was that handwriting from note taking and of course you know they and they were they were like say, copy and pasted onto thousands of other conspiracy websites and next thing, you know, there we go. Yeah.

So anyway, uh, well, back to the story of the bell. Supposedly, when it was activated, it had very strong radiation and supposedly it killed a bunch of scientists who are working on it because apparently when they first turned it on for the first time, they didn't realize they were gonna get fried. So uh. And also they had some test animal and and uh and plant subjects that also got

toasted by this. And if I am I right, Joe, I mean, this is terrible, but I remember some account saying that the scientists who died at least one or two of them their skin literally melted off. I heard these stories. Yeah, yeah, so for everybody who doesn't know, because I actually started doing a little research because I was thinking, well, it's got to be you know, let's just look at standardrad can make a skin melt off, like their face melt off is the Ark of the

Covenant from the documentary Raiders at the Lost Time. Anything above three thousand rads will burn your skins so badly and fastly that it could look like you're skin was melting. Yeah. There's only one problem with that is that anybody who witnessed that event would Yeah, I guess you have to be in a reactor, though nuclear reactor to get that kind of exposure. Base. It's the easiest way to do it,

I guess, you know. I guess The problem for me isn't so much that like, Okay, it's conceivable that somebody came in after and was like, wow, their skin has melted off of the right that it doesn't doesn't necessarily have to be somebody witnessed it melting off of them. That's very true. But he turned it off. That's good. I mean, if it killed everybody that was close enough to like, haven't you seen the action movie where the hero dies and falls on the off switch and saves

the world. That's what this guy did. Actually, No, actually, what happened is they were powering this thing via extension cord. The person in the next room where the screaming, and then he pulled the extension cord out of the the out of the outlet. Yeah, I saved the day. But okay, okay, I'm sure that's what happen. And there's something very much like that. Maybe you flipped a circuit breaker. Sweet. Yeah, supposedly the bell did require vast amounts of electricity to operate,

and so nobody knows why that is. That's weird. Yeah, so it was like, I'm sorry, the usefulness of something goes down drastically when you have to actually like plug it in. Yeah, I mean, eventually, maybe, you know, maybe it becomes self sustain sustaining. Yeah, you know, I mean and and and maybe your initial version requires three million volts, you know, and stuff like that in massive amounts of current.

But maybe eventually, with refining and research and experimentation, you can get it down to the to where you can actually put it on a battleship or a tank or something. Like her a plane, if this was a weapon. All of those things are things that I want to do with vast amounts of radiation. Yeah, well, but if you don't know what it's going to do, you don't know that that radiation is going to your crew. That's true. Yeah,

there was. There was a lot of stuff that that we did back in like the forties and the fifties, as far as experimentation with bombs and radiation. We had no idea that it was going to like so many people,

short and long term. You guys, I know, I'm pretty sure both of you've seen is the movie that was shot by I think their air Fish soldiers out in the desert watching a nuke go off in the air, standing there and laughing and joking and talking about it, and it's like a mile above them, so they're just bombarded with reading. It's it's really not easy to watch because they're just having a good time. Wow, that's so awesome, and you're just looking at it going you have no

idea what is happening right now? Fred I think the most there was. There are a lot of different films from all the experiments that they did back in those days and the most horrible one that I ever saw, and it was truly awful. It was like they were experimenting with with protective suits for our troops protect them from the intense heat of a nearby nuclear blast. And it's like like I have a kind of tinfoil. So they they made up a bunch of little suits for

for some pigs. No, I'm not gonna tell you anymore. It was. It was terrible. It's already yeah, it was bad anyway. So back back to Vitkowski. According to him, the bell was built, or at least was how used, in a German facility known as Theresa called which is known as the Giant. And it's actually it's not a

single buility. It's like there's a like a valley in Silesia, which is in Poland, southern Poland, near the Czech border, about seventy miles east of the German border, and of course that was German territory during World War two, and they built this massive complex. It wasn't just one building, it was actually this valley had a lot of massive complexes and tunnels and all kinds of secret stuff going on in there. I just want to mention how uncreative

the Germans were when naming things. Everything is the something, right, Oh, yeah, that's the giant, that's the bell, that's uh the well. Code names are like that, though an intelligence officer can only go so far before he gets really bored with just coming up with words. Oh, it's the osprey, it's the eagle. Eventually, lamp share table, project table, Yeah, project table is more interesting than the giants the giant. The giants kind of kind of got a cool edge to it.

Let's go it's it's it's kind of intimidating. You heard that a giant was living in this valley, would you go down there? Hell? No, it's uh. Kaska also claimed that there was a massive concrete well not that massive, but and there's pictures of it on the internet if anybody cares to go look see. It's called the Hande And it's like it's a circular structure with vertical like vertical concrete supports and then it's like basically a concrete, steel reinforced I'm sure circle on the top of it.

It looks like Stonehenge but made out of concrete. Yeah, made out of skinnier stoves to Okay, I get the name now. Yea, yeah, and so the yeah, he claimed that it was it served as a test rig where they could put the bell and experiment with anti gravity stuff. He's claiming that there's some anti gravity work involved here. But didn't people say that they also thought that that was probably just a cooling tower. Yeah, yeah, exactly the basis for a cooling tower. So yeah, and that's kind

of what it looks like. So but that's what that's a that's a like a nuclear cooling tower, right, it doesn't look big enough. Nuclear cooling towers are pretty annorying. Well they're huge. So yeah, so I started to figure out what kind of cooling tower that would be for I mean, I mean, I mean, that's the thing about it. It's like, when you look at the pictures of it, you can't really get an idea of the scale. It looks too small to be the base of a nuclear

cooling tower. But you know, the thing is with the nuclear cooling tower is that they've got a structure on top of their base, which kind of looks like the Henge. So it could have been. Yeah, you know, it's it's always hard to tell with surely there are pictures from the time somewhere. Yeah. Actually, you know what I think is um, I think it looks like the base for a water tank that would actually supply the water to a cooling tower. That yeah, because I don't I don't know.

The Germans weren't that far in terms of nuclear technology as far as we know, so they wouldn't have a reason to use a cooling tower that for nukes. Well, I mean there's there's other there's other things that generate heat. I mean, it's like an other indust la industrial applications. So yeah, I think it could have been just an ordinary thing. Alternately, it was definitely a house for the bell. It could have been I mean, you know, to hold it down away, No, no no, just to like, how's it

make a little pen for it? You know that's like, yeah, it'd be tall enough. Right, they could test its floating capabilities, but not lose it out in the field somewhere banking hand curtains around the side so people couldn't spy in and see it was going on. It would be kind of funny and ironic if they take it out for the tat that the entire first gravity test they turn it on, it just goes never see it again. I

guess we're gonna have to start over again. The better better still would be they turn it on and it slowly starts to rise, and it starts to rise, and it starts to rise, and then and then somebody says, do we know how to turn it off? And Uh, it's like a like a balloon, it just starts away. Uh no, it we made it self sustaining. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so the anti gravity thing was pursued somewhat

by by Nick Cook and also by Wokowski. Wakowski claims that the US government actually has been working on anti gravity devices for decades now and spending lots of money on it. Why wouldn't we? Yeah, well it's not a bad idea as not at all. Yeah, And the hunt

for zero point. Zero point energy is the the energy state that a particle is in at its lowest state of energy, on its coldest and so apparently, and I don't understand the physics behind this or the math behind this at all, but apparently a particle at that point, if you can, if you can harness the energy possessed by that particle, then it's almost infinite. In other words, we would have a fantastic energy source. This is what although other other physicists have derived that derided, this is

basically the equivalent of a perpetual motion machine. You know. Yeah, if you can find a way to get to release that energy, then you'll have all kinds of energy. But the energy required to release that energy will probably be more, in fact, almost certainly will be more than the energy to get back. It's kind of like nuclear fusion, same thing. That's our perpetual motion machine that we've been striving after for decades to spend two dollars to get a dollar. Yeah.

So yeah, nuclear fusion we've we've totally achieved. I mean, and it's not that we can't do that. We can do that easily, but getting more energy out of the transaction than we put in that's a tough part. And we haven't figured that one out. When I was a kid, by today, we were supposed to all be it was our entire society was going to be powered by nuclear fusion. They were sure of it. And we're still about that far away. Yeah. Yeah, so when you're a kid again,

it'll be there. Yeah, Hey, kids, when you're adults, it's going to be all fusion. Yeah, I remember, and Actually I wasn't around for this, but when nuclear power first came out, they said it would be the energy would be so cheap there would be no point to even charging people for electricity. And of course that didn't come about either. There was a lot of claims didn't really

pay a lot of optimism. And yeah, I mean there was talk after after Hairoshima Nagasaki, there was there was some actually people's theorizing that we would it would be a fantastic money saver because we could dismantle our army because we just got we just have nukes. Every time something goes around with the world will lob a nuke adam and so there's no point in having a standing army, tanks, battleships or any of that stuff. Yeah, that never came

about either, okay. Um, So the besides the anti grad any propulsion thing with that involved that big hands leg thing. There are the claims. There's been a number of authors that have come up with books about this thing, and one author says that the bell was so important to the Nazis that they killed sixty scientists who were working on the project and buried them in a mass grave. That doesn't really sound like Nazis mass Graves. Not at all, No, not at all. It's like, yes, well, mask mass Graves

are kind of popular all around the world, frankly, yeah, unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah, that's a great way to advance your project though. Yeah, it's so secret. We're gonna kill you. That's how important your work is to us. Yeah, we're gonna kill you. We value you so much. Yeah. Uh yeah, And there's another Another author claims that it contains red mercury, and

red mercury is kind of this big box. Yeah, we talked about that already, but he said that it had when you put a concave mirror on the top of the device, it gave you the ability to see images from the past. So it was a time machine. Uh. Igor Btkowski said that the bell ended up in a South American country, and Nick claims it was taken to the US as part of the deal made with a general named Hans Kamler. So if this thing did exist, we don't know where it went. You and I don't. Yeah,

this is the general public. Okay, Now, before I know that, we're about to get into theories. But before we get into that, what I'm curious about is when I did some of the research this bell. The Nazis moved it around a lot over the course of two years. And this things seems like it would be kind of a big deal to move around, and they moved it around. And I almost got the impression through some of the reading that they had more than one. Yeah, I've heard.

I have heard that rumors of more than one also to three four of them. They figured they built the first one and then oh, we gotta go here, Well, let's just build a new one there. And rather than packing this thing over there, which seems I guess if it's not hard to make, that's okay. But it's again, they were doing strange things. They were shuffling the deck constantly, so who knows what was going on in the high command. Yeah, and this is one of those things too that we've

talked about in the previous stories. Some of these stories grow in the telling. I remember right now, I know Wakowski. I only claimed that it was down in in the giant the valley with all the all the cool secret facilities. But then other people who have chimed in and said to no, no, it was it was housed in in this university and then went up being moved here and moved there, and it's like, okay, maybe, yeah, I guess you don't know where. Which is the true vein of truth? Yeah,

the true vein of truth. Yeah. So anyway, so it let's let's talk about some theories. Sweet. Yeah, we've already talked about this a little bit. It was an anti gravity device that was claimed by Wadkowski and Cook that then they did and we're doing anti gravity experiments, which could have conceivably it produced a very powerful weapon for the war. I mean, I'm trying to I'm thinking, like, if you had a powerful enough antigravity device, you could

build like a land battleship. Imagine the tank, but it doesn't need to actually like touch the land. It just floats over it. And it's like not the size of a tank, it's like the size of a small building. Yeah,

that'd be kind of cool. And I know that some of the people that are supporting that it was for anti gravity, they point out that scientists that were and this is supposed, but scientists that were involved in the V two and the V one program, which is the Nazis rocket program, which they were the innovators, and they

had the farthest reaching rockets at the time. Yeah, the same scientists were involved with the Bell, So they were thinking, well, if I can only get it so far propelled by fuel, what if I could just make the things float over there? And the conjecture was that they were doing it because they knew they couldn't use a rocket fuel based rocket to go all the way to say the States, Yeah,

which was something that they were working on. If you had an anti gravity device that could go there, it would be much simpler, and you could do it with less fuel because it's just floating along on its own or rather than pushing its way through the atmosphere and fighting grab And I guess it wouldn't if it were something that was kind of big and heavy like the Bell. I think kind of it was right. You don't even need to put explosives really in it for it to

have some kind of damaging effect. If you've got a thing that's going really fast that's really heavy, you can just barrel it through a bunch of stuff, right, or even like ships, you don't have to shoot missiles or anything like that. You just shoot your thing and it pokes a hole in it. And I was thinking more of it, Like it's it's just towing some kind of nuclear device or some kind of explosive device, and nuclear

is the wrong word. Explosive device. Like you watch helicopters towing things and they're dragging it under their suspended beneath them. So if this thing could float on its own and then just carry and explosive and then just get over its target and drop it and keep going, theoretically that means you can come back to home and you can use it again. There's lots of lots of uses. Yeah,

I mean, they're all the fairies. Yeah. Well, and that's the thing that you know, in order to like not be knocked down by by the US fighters or whoever they were planning on attacking, they would have to be like above the atmosphere. So that's essentially have to be a spaceship. But you know, I mean the Nazis were way ahead of us in many other regards, so they could have done that too. Mostly, you know, it's shocking how far you can get when you don't really care

about morals and people. Yeah, yeah, it's true. But yeah, that was We're gonna we're gonna get We're gonna talk about some of those people, by the way, before we're done here. Yeah, Now, so the anti gravity thing, even though it's and and and Cook spent a lot of time in his book talking about not just the bill, but talking about the U. S. Government in general investigating the whole anti gravity thing. They're like, he claims that they've been doing it a lot. He thinks that they

have the bill. He thinks that they've been spending a lot of money on anti gravity research, which you know, actually wouldn't really surprise me because actually it's something we should be trying to understand. If it's possible to understand how to make gravity waves, how to how to block gravity waves, that would be pretty useful technology. Yeah, you know, thank thankfully, we haven't had any suggestions, nor do I think we have any interest in ever tackling like Rawswell

or anything like that. But I do know that a lot of the kind of more modern, more believable theories about Roswell, an Area fifty one and things like that are that people see these things that they identify as unidentified flying objects because the U. S. Military is testing these new kind of propulsion systems or anti gravity or anything like that, or even stuff that's not even that out of this world, like the Stealth Fighter, which they

definitely were there. Yeah, and they kept that under wraps for a long time, and supposedly the CEI IS admitted that they actually they actually stirred the pot with UFO stories for a while just so that people spotted one of our experimental craft flying around they would be dismissed as kooks. Yeah. I think you know that's a that's a strong possibility and play it is, and it wouldn't.

It would not shock me at all if that was something that we were working on it, I you know, have a problem with them working on that or keeping it secret. Honestly, it would be. It would be an extremely powerful technology if anybody could actually do it. But I don't. I don't know that we understand gravity well enough at this point to really create an anti gravity machine. Yeah. I don't think we do. Yeah, I could if we figure it out in this day and age. We're gonna

it's going to be an accident. Yeah, We're going to stumble upon something and go WHOA, and we want to understand will know how to do it kind of, but we will know how to do it, right, Yeah, absolutely, yeah. But yeah, so I think that as far as as far as like you know, grabbing the Nazi bell and trying to build rebuild a Nazi bell, I think the better better to just fund theoretical research by scientists and the gravity and the nature thereof and all that stuff.

We need to understand gravity a little bit better, and that's probably a good way to Yeah, okay, So anyway, there's always and I mentioned previously also there was a time machine time travel machine theory, and this is like that didn't allow you to go back and forward in time, but you could see backward in time, which would be

kind of cool, I guess. But I've always thought that that's the least one of the least useful time travel technology, the ability to see into our past, right, because okay, so I can understand seeing into our future or traveling into our past, but seeing the past is kind of like, no, we I mean we saw that already. Yeah, maybe not all of the useful for murder investigations and things like that. Yeah, I was gonna say, let's let's put this into context.

So somebody reports a detractor is what you would were called when you got reported to the s S was that the correct word detractor. What do they call when somebody would would out you, it's oh, he's an enemy of the state, him record, they would disappear you anyway. The would people would say, oh, you know, and I don't like Joe, I'm going to report him the s S and then Joe would disappear because I had reported

that he did something. So think about this. You are wondering if high high level official is maybe not as loyal as you think he is, that might be feeding information. It would actually be really informative and useful to be able to if you could control the thing, focus on that guy and say, you know, I know that in this time frame of let's say two months, he did some kind of off stuff. So let's just watch what he did and see if he did anything that wasn't right.

And then we we have proof and we don't need to prove in a court law. We just know that we're right. The question is is could you know? I mean, it's tough enough to see in the past, but say you're you're there, and you're you're there in your secret factory and you're looking into the past, I would think you'd only be able to see it in the past and your location. Well now now you're now you're putting parameters on it. We don't know what this thing could do.

I'm what if I could, you know, maybe you could to go to any locations past, maybe you can you know where, whenever and wherever I want it. I gotta say I'm impressed with those Nazis, because yeah, that's pretty amazing me too. And I also don't have the sense. You know, I'm not, by any means a Nazi historian. I don't know a whole lot about this kind of time in history or anything like that. But the impression that I have is not overwhelmingly that Nazis cared about

individual life. I mean, I think that's kind of the idea of like communism is like for the greater good, right, so like you know, carring like a high level ranking officer, right, But nine times out of ten, like if I go report Joe and he gets disappeared, I don't have the impression and they're gonna be like, all right, we're gonna turn on the machine and look into the past and see if you actually did this thing. More than they're

just going to be like, wow, a bullets super cheap. Yeah, okay, but but no, no, no, no no. I First, first of all, I mean the Nazis were socialists, so there they you know, I mean, so they thought that what they were doing is for the greater good too, just like the Communists did. And so you know, but but it's like it's like it always seems to be the way with comedies and socialists is that you know, it's always well, you can't make an omelet without breaking a

few eggs, exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, so they get crushed underfoot. But nonetheless, you know, even even the Nazi Germany, even though like they're they're a heartless bunch, they still can't kill everybody. You can. For example, found out, like you know, that the murdering his entire officer corps in

the army didn't really serve them. Well, you know, in World War Two, it's like, you know, it's like all the competent people that could actually like you know, save my country from the invaders, well I had to executed or sent to the goolak oops. Sure, right. And of course, you know, if that was a big thing, if that's what we're saying it was used for, is to like exonerate higher ranking all board. I am on board. It

would be a great spine tool as well. I want to see what the President of the United States was doing. And let's say I just tuned it into two minutes ago for him and just watches it. So I've got a two minute delay on what the President of the United States conversation. All right, I'm on board. Now it's a cool idea. Now, I remember when I was a kid, I used to read more a lot more sci fi than I do today. And Isaac aske him off throw the story that was about this machine that this guy

built that could look into the past. He could look you know, you could look into the past and and and anywhere and just and it was really really cool. And but the thing about it is is that like every time somebody came up with this technology, government agents

would shut would show up and take it away. And so this guy, like he had these government agents after him, so he just takes it, takes this and he basically puts the whole thing out in public, you know, he publishes, publishes everything about it, so that anybody can build one of these things. And then and then the government agents say and just say you know, you can look a hundred years into the past, or you can look two minutes into the past. What you've just done is you've

just destroyed everybody's privacy. Welcome to the future whole. Yeah, and so it was it was kind of a kind of a nice twist on the stage. Yeah, what a boso Yeah yeah, so anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah for for a kind of a silly little theory. Another theory put out there is that it was a heavy particle accelerator. It was there. They were using it to create bomb grade or excuse me, weapons grade you two thirty three,

that's uranium. Yeah. So, uh so apparently there's, uh, there's people that have claimed that it has some sort of

special acceleration process there. There are these small particle accelerators that are called cyclotrons that that's kind of if you want to don't want to have a linear accelerator, it's like half a mile long, you can use a cyclatron on which moves a particle in a spiral outward from the center and it builds up speed and then you can like you know, smash particles in other particles and

chief fusion or fission or whatever it is. You're trying to do among these The theory is that they were trying to create, trying to convert thorium two thirty two into uranium two thirty three. I don't know what any of those things mean. Yeah, well is this me being an idiot, This is me being a This is complex,

this complex chemistry. Yeah. I think the simple version is they were trying to take what was the first one again, Joe thorium two thirty two thorium, and they were trying to create uranium, which is then uh, weapons create, correct, So they were trying to turn it into weapons grade uranium. And if this thing was a particle accelerator. Again, this is my understanding of the science, and I'm not a mathematician or a scientist, but it has some and do

with spinning at that velocity you break off. I can't remember if it's a I think it's electrons, yea electrons, electron nuclei. Yeah, and so they combine and slam together and then form a new element like the large hand client that's exactly correct. Yeah, well yeah, I think that that specifically what what is vaporized mercury spins in the magnetic field and electron has become excited, uh and disassociate.

When they were timing nuclei, they swirl around rapidly in this in a sort of plasma inside this and as a as a hit protons, they emit X rays. This is I have no idea. I'm not a physicist, but this is the way I've heard it described as the theoretical way that the Bell could have worked. So that would explain the people white people died because exactly, yeah, so it generates X rays and then and then the X rays when you when the X rays hit brilliant brilliant. Supposedly,

that's what's called donating. It donates neutrons, and so yeah, exactly, he's gonna done it. So essentially I need a deduction on my taxes going to donate an electron. No, I think I think b willium is very generous, A big fun of it. So anyway, So anyway, so apparently under the series they were trying to they were trying to use fusion to create basically add protons and two and neutrons to rate two to transform it to uranium two thirty.

This isn't a better way to generate weapons. Get great. Supposedly, I guess they were looking for a simpler way, looking for a quick to reach your shortcut to create you two thirty or maybe even in the field to create it. Well, there's no point in creating in the field though. Yeah, but yeah, you created and then you just like squirt gun it the other guys and then they're like, oh, the X rays or yeah, super soaker party. Ever No, well,

so anyway, they have a heavy particle accelerator. Is probably one of the more credible theories that you know. Certainly it beats and I think it beats the time machine by a little bit. Yeah, it's the anti gravity device, but not quite so much, but also by a little bit. But there's a fourth theory. What's that? It was a bell? Oh, please tell me the uses of the Nazi bell that rings calls people to church, you know, Yeah, that's the Nazi bell. So yeah, so you guys, you guys have

been doing a little independent research on this yourselves, I assume. Yeah, have you come up with any other any other credible theories for this? I mean I would say that my only other credible theory is that it's a made up thing. It doesn't actually exist. Well, we'll talk about that talking about let's talk about it. Yeah. The origins, of course was Polish author Igor with Kowski, as we talked about earlier,

wrote The Truth about the Wounder WAFA. Yeah, and it got wider play when Nick Cook published his book The Hunt for Zero Points a couple of years later, right, Yeah, and he probably sourced a lot of his information, if not froll of it from from Kowski. Yeah. Yeah, and he says he found incredible and believable. So I've got named Kirk Kleiner Roatar review of The Hunt for Zero Point and uh and here's what he had to say about Cook's reliance on with Kowski. That's a little bit scathing.

It's like, you know, in a settle sort of way. So why does Cook believe with Kowsky? I'm quoting now the Kowsky had been recommended to me by polar sources. Now in quoting Nick Cook, do my work at James as someone who's both highly knowledgeable and reliable. Had Wikowski been in any way a lightweight, I would have turned around and got on the first plane home. But when I saw him, I knew he was okay unquote, just

as shaking are most of Cook's conclusions. So anyway, so quoting from he just keeps going, I'm going I wanted a big review, and yeah I don't, I don't want to, but yeah I kind of kind of ripped on Cook just a little bit. Uh, And yeah, you guys should read read the review's kind of fun. But so he

relied very heavily on Wkowski's story. I don't know, and he claims that he was able to go because he spent a lot of he supposed to supposedly kind of an expert on black programs, and black programs being the stuff that's in the black budget, the stuff that's hidden in the budget that you don't know about, things like

the stealth bomber for example, the stealth fighter. So he claims that by by looking at our black budgets and stuff, he's be able to find huge gaping holes where he can infer lots of anti gravity research and maybe you know, monkying with the bells going on, but there's a lot of the big extrapolations going on there. He doesn't actually have access to that much information about that stuff. And so he realized on guys like Yvonne igor Wadkowski. So

anyway back to Wakowski's he's got us. There's a little problem with this story, which is Jacob Spornberg, who was who was indeed a German high ranking German s S. Soldier, But and that, and of course it was Jacob Swarburgh was the guy that Polish Intelligence ppposedly interrogated and and made a transcript of the interrogation. And then what Kowski got to read that they talked about the Bell So he's he was. He was a soldier, he wasn't a scientist.

He spent he spent most of the war fighting partisans in bell Belarus and in Poland, and eventually wound up in Norway, where he was captured by the British. Let me throw up a map real quick like here. Well, first of all, down here this is this is the giant the valley where all that all that secret stuff is going on in those vast complexes on the border of the Republican on the of the Czech Republic and

not too far east of Germany. Spormberg was initially stationed in Minsk in Belarus, which is I don't know, eight hundred to a thousand miles northeast there, and eventually he was stationed in Lublin, Poland, which is several hundred miles to the east of where the bell would have been, and then after that wound up in Norway. It doesn't appear to me from his biography anyway, unless unless they cleverly, cleverly cut some stuff out. Number one, it didn't appear

that he physically got anywhere close to the bell. And also there's no particular reason why he would have been, because he was a soldiery and basically kind of you know, there never reason to be there. I had no reason to be there really. Or two, and if he if he was staying down there for any reason, it's not like somebody's gonna take him aside and say, hey, check out this really cool anti gravity thing we're working on. Well, you could be another soldier trying to impress me. Buddy,

You're not gonna believe what I found. But you know what it kind of sounds like to me, is you know, if you couldn't tell I've never been to war, I've never been a soldier, But I have the impression that there's a lot of like kind of b sen and like storytelling, almost like campfire storytelling, particularly if you're like in the trenches of an awful war like, and you know, it's just it's human nature to kind of like make

up these stories. And often you want to make up stories about this awesome new technology that you have, the you are fighting for have that's going to help you in a war. And so me, you know, it's totally possible. This guy heard somebody who was like, oh man, you know what I saw recently, or like this scientist dude told me they have been working on It was just

kind of a campfire story. But he got captured and interrogated and he was like, Okay, I'm just gonna tell you everything that might be anything, and it's just kind of spiraled out of control. Does that even seem plausible? I mean, let's let's talk about that for a second. So by the time the polls interrogated him, he had to have known he was going to be hung for for his war crimes, because this guy committed some serious war crimes, biggest among them operational harvest festival in Poland,

which involved they rounded up. They were having troubles. They're not just having troubles with the local Jews. They were they were like, you know, rising up. And then you know, because the Jews basically being kept in slave labor camps, and so there were rebellions and all kinds of stuff, all kinds of trouble, all kinds of trouble with them, and so they finally decided to just killed them all.

And so Operation Harvest Festival was they had all these all these slaves come out and dig quote unquote tank trenches, defensive tank trenches, and so that's what they basically got to dig their own mass grave. And then yeah, over a period of a couple of days, they slaughtered them all and then buried them. There we're talking a serious, seriously huge, heinous war crime. So, like I said, he wound up being stationed in Norway where he was captured

by the British. After interrogation, they decided to send Sender to London for further interrogation regarding his war crimes, and he was eventually extradited after the war to Poland and he was executed by the Polish in nineteen e sees me by the Poles in nineteen fifty two. So it's unlikely that he would be trying to trade information for well precisely, yeah, because there's no point he knows he's

going to get shot or strong up or something. Well, people are inherently trying to stay alive as long as possible, and it's pretty it's it's kind of well known fact that if I'm in custody, I might as well just start telling you everything I can, because as long as I'm talking, you've got a reason to keep me right. Yeah, yeah, it took me a second to make that connection of but I also just you know, turned a name into

an adverber. But yeah, you keep talking, keep giving them even if your jaws pulling it out of your backside. You just keep talking and telling them stuff because I just keep writing it down and going with it. And yeah, maybe I mean I you know, I think that would have bought him about an extra five minutes, but not

really worth it. And and he had a credibility problem there, and that you know, he was he was basically his job was just to like, you know, repress people and slaughter Jews and stuff like that, and so it has no credibility when comes talking about secret scientific things. So anyway, that's why I don't think that Kowski's story is really credible, because I don't see how Spoortingberg could have been involved in anything any sort of scientific project. I don't see why.

He seems like we've got a pretty good record of what he was doing. Yeah, and I don't see why he would have spent any time and interrogation talking about some secret Nazi bell thing. It doesn't make any sense to me. That could have happened. I mean, you never know. I mean, they might have drugged him, and it might be by this point in time he was he's been spending He's spent years in cells and an interrogation rooms and everything like that. Maybe he was out of his mind.

I mean, maybe you know, solitary does awful things to people and they just want to say, don't say anything, you know. So anyway back to let's talk about Nick Cook for a second. Um, he seems a little credulous, you know, and he seems like a credible person because he worked for Jame's Defense Weekly and now even even like since then, he submits articles as a contributor to Financial Times, Wall Street Journal. You know, not not a not a raving loon or anything like that. But he

seems a bit credulous. I came across an interview of him in the Atlantic and from ways back and he's queered about a guy named John Hutchison, and he spends some time talking about Hutchesson, and he thinks this stuff is interesting and credible and true. But how just said, if you do a little Internet searching on the guy, he's a total crank who has claimed that he created a zero gravity field and and he's been able to transmit metal steel to lead things like that, and uh

what else. He says he's created a battery that has almost infinite power. He's made all these claims. He can't replicate any of these claims, and so he's he's universally accepted as just alluded to crank. So basically what you're getting at is that Cook kind of buys in easily, maybe not the right people. He's yeah, kind of yeah yeah. Also in his book he talks about Hans Kammler. We talked about that a little earlier than he said that.

He said that Hans Kammler had had arranged arranged for clamming see from the Allies for by trading them a

lot of valuable technology scientific research. That's how the bell supposedly came to the Kammler written moved the bell to a safe spot a hidden spot and then negotiated with with the US and said, hey, I've got this incredible WOUNDERWAFFA, you know, this anti gravity time machine device, and you know, if you guys will and this guy was also a war criminal, and so if you guys will forgive my sins, I'll tell you where it is. And yeah, and so

that is what Cook claims. But I did a little research on haunts Kammler's biography, and he was a civil engineer and he built a lot of things, including including concentration camps. He designed and build like for example, some of the some of the crematoriums where they gassed all the Jews. I mean, yeah, he was it was involved

in a lot of stuff like that. He was a competent engineer, and he rose in power and eventually wound up being in charge of not just he was essentially was he was charged with building a V two rocket production facility, and then eventually he wound up being put in charge of actually running the facility and producing V two rockets, which were by the way, produced with slave labor.

For the reasons, he was very effective at it because he was ruthless and he didn't really care about working people to death and things like that, and later on he got put in charge of aircraft. Also, Cook claims that that Hants Kammler was in charge of all of their secret weapons programs, but that's not true. That's an exaggeration. He was in charge of rocket production and apparently aircraft production, but that's about it. He was a civil engineer. He

wasn't a scientist. But Cook claims that he was in charge of all these super secret programs and that therefore he was the guy that could have traded these to the Allies. But no, so we're saying he's not super credible. Yeah, so yeah, I would say he is not credible, and so in snce, he's the guy who actually popularized his theory. I mean, igor Igorotkowski is the guy who first put it out there in the public square. But Cook is the guy who actually sold all more books on this

whole thing. Yeah, it seems to me like Cook is a bit of a crank after all. It's like hard to believe, but apparently so that's kind of the end of our theories. Uh yeah, well that's that's not a theory about the about that. Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's kind of the end of at least my researching least because the only information we have on this thing is from Vikkowski and then through Nick Cook, through Nick Cook Wittskowsky, I don't see that Nick Cook has been able to

uncover anymore about the bell. About the bell he's conjectured about about Hans Kambler, but none of that is credible. Hans Kambler didn't have access, wouldn't have had access to the bell. So is where did the bell go? Is it's like buried somewhere still in Czechoslovakia? Is it in America? Is it in the South American country? Well? I think it never existed. Personally, Kevin, I think that um Joe has been fairly persuasive and that the evidence is strong

that perhaps it never existed. But you guys know me, so I'm gonna say you could look back in time with it, even though I think that's useless technology. I personally, the though I don't get it, I am swayed by the amount of science that has written about the bell. I also don't know that it really existed, but people have theorized a lot of stuff, and it seems to have some credible science behind it. Which is pretty interesting.

And I also like the time thing, but I I have also seen that it was a time machine, and I kind of like that theory, and we're not I don't want to take go into it a whole lot here, But have you heard the theory that time is one giant loaf of bread In every moment it is a slice,

That time is a circle? No, No, that it's a loaf of bread, and that you can you can if you go back, you're going back to the previous slice if you look it up, and you actually, I think if you just google time is a loaf of bread or a slice of bread, you can find this theory because it's really kind of heard about, simple and interesting, and I like that idea. I think it's kind of slick. I also don't think the thing is real. Time is

just an endless circle. Time is a piece of topes. No, I am making a listener call out name that reference time is an endless circle circle. Okay, yeah, there's another theory that And actually it's credible that time is actually doesn't actually really will it exists, but it's just a way for us to sort out reality. Yeah yeah, yeah, let's just just want to take a second. It's like time essentially. What happens, what's going on is that everything

is happening all at once. What happened yesterday, what's happening right now, what's happening to, what's going to happen tomorrow, All happened at the same time. Time is just our way of our mental const mental contiving the world around us, telling you this is another show. Yeah, okay, we will do this, all right, we'll talk about this at the time. Yeah, So anyway, at the time and the time machine, that's exciting,

fun stuff. The thing about it is is like the stuff that's been spun, like you're talking about this, some of the theories that have been spun about how it could have been used to create uranium two thirties three and stuff like that is and and I've seen some very elaborate depictions of the internal setup of this thing and how it all worked. Well, And you sent me something about how in two thousand one somebody claimed to have recreated a scale version of the bell. Yeah, exactly exactly.

And it's like zoo died gravitational fields or I don't remember what it was, but yeah, and it's like and It's interesting because against Sportingberg was the only source of information for this thing. Uh and Sparinberg did exist, but he's been dead since nineteen fifty two. So he describes this thing and describes basically as a box and says, well, you know, it's capable of doing the US and then somebody in two thousand and one, based on that, goes

out and creates a replica of it. It's like, really, how does you manage to do that? I could see if you stumbled across some plans and you knew precisely what it was supposed to do, and you had an idea of how it worked and everything, you could do that. But Sparinberg had didn't have a clue if he really existed, he had no clue how it worked or even precisely

what it did. I have a new theory. The bell was actually a field shower that works yet in it and it would spiral water up and heat it up and just shower it down you and you have privacy, so that Hitler could It was a mobile shower. It was a mobile spaw. It was the mobile spa. Yeah, we just mistranslated the German. It's badly badly recorded. That's what it is. It's actually Dave Fear's spaw. Yeah, that's

my new theory. You know, if you look at it, actually almost looks like a space cap, so like they you know, like like like uh, you know, maybe they were working at space caps. So maybe they were going to put a man in orbit. They were going to replace the Liberty Bell. Yeah, maybe that's what it was.

When they finally invaded America. There it is. That would have been actually a cool prank, you know, sneak and sneaking, and one day Americans get up and there's this bell with a swastick on the side of it in Philadelphia. I think that's I think that's what they were. Yeah, they were totally gonna punk us. Okay, so that's about it.

We've talked about this long enough, so if you want to learn more, we'll have some links up on our website, which is as always Thinking Sideways podcast dot com, and if you want to find us on iTunes, we're out there too. If you do find us, please stop to give us a comment and a rating. We would really appreciate that. You can also find us on Stitcher if you don't want to go through that whole iTunes thing. Also know it's so so much and RS you could find us and like us and friend us on Facebook.

We are on Facebook and set us an email at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. Well that's about it. If you guys have any comments about us, like, we would totally love to get an email from you about the Nazi Bell. And if you are the Nazi Bell, please send us an email. Would so you know, I think we're gonna have to do some deciphering because I don't know if the Nazi Bell has hands. Yeah, it's kind of hard. He's gonna tap, He's gonna use the

top of his face. Yeah, we'll have to use Google Translate. If if you're if you're a Nazi war criminal who was involved in this, we would love to love to hear from you. If your skin was melted off by the radiation from the Nazi Bell. Absolutely. So that's about it for this week's so tata everybody talk to you next week. Guys. I'm pretty sure it was aliens, no, no doubt.