Thinking Sideways: The Montauk Project

Well think of it this way. Your birthday is on a certain day, right, and there's three days in the year, so on day three, it's the day before your birthday. If your birthday's day one, it makes sense. Alright, fine, I'm just gonna trust you, guys, So fine, never mind, Happy birthday next week. Thank you for the wishes. You're welcome. I'm it's about to be delivered in the form of this episode. Okay, and this is a juicy and testing episode.

It's a it's an okay one. Yeah, it's actually a listener suggestion from way back, probably one of our first listener suggestions. Yeah, it's it's an old one. Yeah, we got it. Via Reddit actually from a user named oh and eight oh and eight. No, it's and eight oh and date. Thank you. Sorry, sorry it took me so well. Actually, let's be honest. I remember we all say Joe would probably do this story. So it's really Joe's fault that we haven't done this story. Yeah, that's true. A slacker.

Now this one was. This one was a little too overwhelming and confusing. It's it's one of these ones where how it got it got its start and pretty soon like everything with the kitchen sink was in there. Yeah, that's why I have this handy dandy bullet point list of all the things that I think are hilarious attached to them. So what are we talking about. We're gonna talk about the mont Talk Project. Oh yeah, yeah, and

of course it's it's sister project, the Philadelphia. Well we're gonna go ahead and gloss over the Philadelphia experiment today. But you know that it's connected. Apparently it's connected, well connect connected in that it exists in the same universe. Um, but I figured conoman and you know what this could explain. This is why it's your birthday gift, Steve is because it could actually explain every all of the fifty two

stories we have thus far tackled. Yeah, anyways, I just figured we would gloss over the Philadelphia project, save it for a rainy day, alright, because it's too big for little old me to handle. It is kind of a big tangled mess. Yeah. The Montalk Project, I'm saying that right, right, is this um series of secret US government projects that were conducted at UM. I think I'm as far as I can tell, it's the same place. It's Camp Hero, which was renamed the Montauk Air Force Station, right, the

Camp Hero became no, the other way around. I think that there was a Montak Air Force Station and then they donated the land to the county or something I thought to Nasau County, and then they turned it into they turned into a park, right. But Camp Hero was during the World Wars. It was an army base, and then it became an air Force base. Then they donated it to be a state park. Right, Okay, I'll buy that.

It's in Montalk, Long Island. Apparently it existed for the purpose of developing psychological warfare techniques and exotic research in two time travel or Yeah, well, I was going to do I feel like that's psychological warfare kind of right. Or alternately, there was a stargate there and Nicola Tesla and some aliens probably made it entirely possible. I you know, I'm laughing at that, but we'll talk about it in

a minute. Yes, yeah, does have a role in this m So I'm gonna tell you guys a little story hopp in the not so way back machine. We're not going to hop in the way back machine. We just took it out last week. We gotta Yeah, it's so. In nineteen forty five, American troops liberated France, Right, that's true. We know that that's not really a conspiracy. Apparently, at the same time, some troops discovered a train full of

Nazi gold that was stopped in a tunnel. They notified the proper authorities, who arrived on the scene, took the gold, and then killed all the soldiers because dead men tell no tails and I couldn't. I couldn't. So were these the soldiers that discovered it? There were US soldiers or soldiers that were already on the train. It was Nazi soldiers that they killed. Oh, I understood it that it was a soldiers. Yeah, that's why I'm asking because I remember thinking I read that it was they killed all

the Nazi soldiers. Well, I think they probably just killed everyone. Well yeah, I mean, if there were not these soldiers, certainly they killed them. But I'm given to understand they also killed the Allied soldiers. This is a release of call of duty, basically, is what you know? You're right here, Yeah, you gotta kill everybody in the tea bag them. Yeah. So you know, the moral of the story is a kind of train load of gold. You just like hide it and don't tell anybody, you know, you not your

national secret. Oh my, what's that national treasure? Yeah? You national treasure? Yeah, I'm on it. Okay. Also, at the same time, during the crumbling Reich, right, that's how you say that word, the third Reich, the third Reich. I just you know what, sometimes I can't say words. It's fine.

We know this. Americans were helping German scientists flee the country, which we also recognize as probably being true or absolutely being true or I don't know how many we got out before the wars the end, but we certainly got grabbed a bunch of them after the world was over too.

Can I can, I can I interrupt something. Fine, all right, because we're talking about this paper clip and we're talking about the Germans a little bit here, I'm guessing that some of the weird German experiments or why we took these guys. Yeah, So, did you guys see the article that's come out recently about Hitler and Himmler and the awesome stuff that they wanted to do making their own

Jurassic Park. Know what? I didn't hear about that one. Yeah, it's it's so funny and evidently this is quote unquote true papers that have been discovered. Is that to help show that the German lineage had been there was always the strong people. What they were gonna do is they were gonna backwards engineer some it's a bull or some kind of cow that was seven feet tall that was from the dracks Jurassic period and release it into the wilds of Poland so that these strong men of the

Reich could hunt them. Because that's right up there with the crazy stuff that we're going to talk about that these guys were in. I guess I feel like if I had a lot of money and was planning on taking over the world, I would probably build a Jurassic Park. I think they had a real Jurassic I think they probably should. We saw how well that worked in film number one through four. Well, obviously we wouldn't dummies' realistic. Anyways,

back to our story. Sorry, sorry, operational opera and lots of these scientists were brought back to America and teamed up with scientists who worked on the Philadelphia experiment. Given the Nazi gold that we were just talking about, why were they give the Nazi go and and a research facility that was built underground and that became the Montalk Project,

building a twelve story underground complex. Maybe yeah, we'll talk about but they built under there in a minute, because it turns out apparently the government, though they have given all of the land to the Forest Service, they still own the land below the radar unit that sits on top of the Montalk Project. Yeah, apparently that's that's true. But they I think what that meant really is that they kept the mineral rights just in case, you know,

gold was discovered or something like that. And I'm not talking Nazi gold. Gold were discovered, Yeah, but why did they give them the Nazi gold to pay them in to fund their research? But why didn't they just like get some money from the treasury. Well, because there was this Nazi gold. I mean you have gold, well, I don't know. I mean I think you have to launder it somehow. You can't just like go to the bank and say, hey, here's all this Nazi gold. We're gonna

we're gonna keep it melted down. I mean, I guess you probably could. You are the US government. I don't know. It's a good question. Um, I don't have a good answer. Sorry. I can keep making things up if you want. We'll move on. Okay. The base is all the way at the end of this island, the east end of Yeah. For people who live on Long Island, you follow Route seven. I don't know what that means. It's a it's a point. It's kind of a spit of land. It's kind of yeah.

If you if you look at Google Maps, like the highway goes out on the south side of the island and then Montak Point is like there's just like this little blob that's the very very end. That's why. Then it narrows down to this very narrow, skinny little passageway widens out again and that's where Camp Hero and all that other stuff is yeah. So, um, in World War Two it was called Camp hero H and it was used for coastal defense, had like really big guns. Well

it's got the big radar station on it. Well, now did they have guns? They had large guns and bunkers. And then that was the Army gave the base to the Air Force and it became known as the Montalk Air Force Station and they built this big radar if you google Montalk project, and actually we'll put up some pictures on the website too. That huge radar thing is what we're talking about. Apparently it was used as an

actual radar station in the Cold War. And what kind of do you remember what kind of radar it is? It starts with an S. I thought it was an age or something like that, remember, Yeah, I mean it was. It was. It was a technology that as soon as they built it was at a date it was no longer worth anything. It was like, I was a chance to go on board an old fifties era submarine that was called the Sailfish and it was built as a radar picket boat. Because their radars weren't small enough to

put on planes. They could land on aircraft carriers, but the aircraft carriers needed greadar coverage, so they built a series of submarines that had these enormous sales and these retractable radar dishes and everything so they could be a distance out with their radars on, monitoring for incoming enemy planes and everything. And then before they even I don't think they even did much time in service, and then

it became obsolete, and so what we do with this thing? Well, I guess we'll just turn it into a regular submarine with a really huge, huge sale on it for fun. Yeah, that's what they did then, because we can thrown it away. Yeah, according to the legend, I guess the base lost its funding in the nineteen sixties because the radar technology became obsolete. But apparently it was open until three because they were

doing experiments, I guess. And as Joe previously stated, the it's a to New York State Park now, but the radar equipment is still intact in standing. You can actually see it on Google Earth. Yeah. Yeah, well, and people use it rather than the lighthouse. It's on Montauk Point. They use. The radar is kind of a daytime reference point because it's it's easier to see the lighthouse. It's big,

it's really big. And you know, as I said before, the story is that they actually built bunkers below it, like built down um, and that the government retains the rights to that, whether it's actually not improved on there and it's minerals or what have you. Apparently the US government still owns whatever is below. So apparently if if in fact there is something below there, it's the base itself, and the radar was actually a cover up for what

was below. Apparently there were as many as twelve stories deep. I don't know what do you call it when it's not levels levels deep. Some people say that it's like really really documented, that there's a subtranean city beneath the base that's still being used today by secret branches of the military. People say that the radar equipment was built as a cover up that the military could conduct experiments in time travel in mind control, and that the electronics

equipment was a cover for that. People also say that there's a fifty foot tall pure titanium pyramid under there. So I guess we'll take what people say with a little bit of a grain of salt. A titanium pyramid. I don't know. I was thinking like it would make more sense to say it was gold and then that's what they used, the Nazi gold pork. But a pretty big pyramid. Yeah, but I don't know why. Pure Titania

because it conducts spacetime anti matter better radio. Yeah. I gotta say, if you're going to build a twelve level underground complex, that seems like a really inappropriate place to do it. Yeah, it's pretty close to the water where the water table, pretty close to the surface there. It seems like there's a lot easier places to build. It's conceivable, But I think they'd go like hollow Watter Mountain or something like that, or maybe pick a dormant volcano and

build their layer in there. Maybe they needed the seawater. Good point. I want to point something out too. I'm ashamed of all all the people out there that have gone over this story so many times. We're not noticing

this obvious thing. But only twenty miles away to the north northwest is Grout in Connecticut, home almost US submarine base, and it's entirely possible they were smuggling Nazi gold, scientists and everything else via submarine across the Long Island Sound to a secret subterranean submarine base underneath the complex that I see it. Yeah, I get it. Actually, that's a really breakthrough theory. That's a really good theory. Absolutely totally.

That's because when you think about it, why would they pick this particular spots such in such a populous area for the area it's fairly it's as somewhat deserted, but it's such a populous area, you know why they wanted to go out somewhere in New Mexico in the middle of the desert somewhere. Well, think about what's twenty miles away. Submarine base. I know it makes no sense. No, actually, I mean it makes more sense than a lot of stuff we're gonna talk about tonight, when you're talking about

twelve level underground complexes. I think a secret subterranean submarine the base is kind of kind of a necessary thing. I think it's kind of cool. Yeah, I agree. Interesting. So here's the story, kind of I'm sorry, here's the theory, the kind of overarching theory or what happened here or what was happening here? I don't know. There's a lot of these. This is the one that I like. The most. I feel like there's a lot here with your favorite

and then just trail down from there. I mean, the rest of them are just kind of like weird assertions, like nobody has gone spent very much time to kind of give anecdotal evidence or anything like that. Then well, okay, this one is too, but there's this anecdotal evidence that whereas the other ones I can bull up point down. That makes sense. Okay, So honor about August twelfth three, all credible stories start with honor about just throw that

out there. A porthole in time quote unquote was created which allowed researchers to travel anywhere in space or time. This was developed into a stable quote time tunnel because of this to a single point in the past. Well, no, they could kind of control it. Maybe it's unclear. There are two kind of variations on what happened specifically because of this in the first instance, Uh, they both kind of have the same thing to kind of have. Well,

well let's just start talking about this, okay. Um, so because of this time tunnel was just a really long tunnel. Did you need like a golf cart? Because of this time tunnel, either the Time Travel Project at Montauk interlocked in hyperspace with the original Philadelphia experiment in nineteen forty three. The story tends to go thus, like the USS Aldridge that was in the Philadelphia experiment, I guess, I don't know. I was drawn into hyperspace and trapped there. Two men

Alt how do you say his name? Black and Duncan Cameron both claimed to have leaped from the deck of the USS All Eldredge while it was in hyperspace and ended up after a period of severe disorientation at Camp Hero in the year three. At the mont Talk project, they claimed to have John von Newman. That's how you would say that, right, That's how I say that. He's a physicist and mathematician. Um. He died in nineteen fifty seven. Three. Just calm down. He apparently, that scientist Von Newman Um

also was apparently connected to the Philadelphia experiment. So the claim is that they actually in Montalk the time tunnel opened up into the Philadelphia experiment. Maybe Apparently. The origin of the Montalk project dates also to nineteen forty three, when radar invisibility was being researched aboard the U S S. Eldredge. I don't know it's kind of this modgepodge of story that I can't totally tell. Here's the easy way to think about the Philadelphia experiment. They wanted to figure out

how to make a ship invisible the radar. They did some cookie science, and some kids in a van got involved. Okay, now that parts out real, But they accidentally made the ship disappear for a couple of moments. It completely went invisible to the naked eye and radar, It traveled through time, and then it zipped back to where it came from, and people were dead because they had fused with the ship or were completely loony. Yeah, mentally, that's the simple

cliff notes version of the Philadelphia experience. Sure, so apparently where the ship ended up was the Montalk project apparently, so that would that would explain a lot. Though. So when it disappears, that's because the Montalk thing is causing it to go like that. And I can't decide if they if the theory is that the Philadelphia Experiment caused the time tunnel opening, or if the mont Talk experiment caused the uss Aldredge to disappear, But somehow they made

it up that forty year bridge. Yeah, apparently and then was his name? Jumped off the ship and wound up in Montalk? Yeah, what's his name? Alan Duncan and Duncan Cameron And I can't tell you guys said that you watched some interviews with him? Is that try? I listened to part of an interview with alb Be Like, is that how we're saying his name? Be? Like? Okay? And I couldn't totally tell if he claimed to have been part of the Philadelphia experiment in nine three. He did.

It's really weird. He claims he was. He was on that ship in forty three, and then he jumped off in Montalk and he well, he jumped off while it was traveling through hyperspace, so he looked at his buddy, Richard Dean Anderson said I'm out of here, and jumped out while he was in the wormhole, and he traveled

in time. He says he ended up in the year twenty three hundred in something and was there for a while, and then he ended up in the year twenty eight hundred and something and lived there for a while, both times having no recollection of who he was at first, and then eventually figuring it out, and then somehow traveling back in time and ending up in and then when he was he lived there for a while. Yeah. Yeah,

he was a tour guide. Was a tour guy. He was a tour guide because they had cities that were twenty two or twenty three hundred stories tall, and they had anti gravity technology, and they had computers that ran the government, and as he said, they were a socialist society. There's a lot of weird stuff in in his stuff. Anybody wants to listen to it. There's a bunch of his interviews online. I didn't listen to all of them,

but it's about three hours of interviews. There's a couple of them that are kind of compiled really a three hour video that you can just listen to, and it's all most of it's just audio. But I'm not gonna say that he's a kuk or a loot or anything like that. But he makes some pretty fantastic claims, and most of his stories are really really simple. Like he says, well, then they had train systems, except their train cars were wider than ours. It's a train, okay, Well, what's so

futuristic about a train? It's some weird stuff, like very like very simple I almost wonder if he, you know, accidentally did LSD or something. Yeah. The thing about it is is like, and this is why you know he's full of he's full of it. It's because he traveled to the future. And I think about this. I mean, if somebody from say two d years ago transports to our time, he would see things that would be that

would have been inconceivable in his time. Not just he wouldn't have just seen things that would have been an improvement. He wouldn't have seen, you know, a donkey on steroids and a sup turpo charge steam locomotive. He would see things like airplanes and iPads and the Internet. He would see stuff that his society could not have conceived of.

Probably like and all of his stories, not a single thing that he saw so many centuries in the future, not a single thing that he saw, is something that doesn't already exist in our society today, which tells us that either all human creativity basically disappeared about you know about right about now, or that you know, the guy

is just basically full of it. Well, and he also he also makes the jump that the human world population was kind of decimated at some point in the near future and some war and that seems like the sort of thing you would get some serious details on. Well, and do you remember the Georgia guidestones. He talks about the New World Order and that at the year hundred the planet was at what was it, uh, five hundred thousand or five hundred million, five million people? They were

keeping the population right around that number. So it's when did he do these interviews? Uh? There several years ago? It was really hard. I thought I thought it was from two thousands. Yeah, he is something like that. Yeah, So his interview was I mean, he was talking about the Internet, and it was strange because I swore at her in the Internet. At one point they said two thousand twelve, but then that he would start talking about

the early two thousand. So I couldn't tell exactly when the interview I listened to was, but it just was very, very close to what modern technology was. And I agree with Joe. They weren't revelations. They weren't amazing, you know, Oh they had they had a sidewalk where you stood on it and just jetted you around town, like the thing at the airport, and like the thing that Isaac asked them. I was writing had in some of his robot novels, and he wrote in the nineteen sixties, do

you remember who is? I borrowed the Ring World series from you, Larry Niven, And if anybody hasn't read Ring World or Larry Niven there they're good books, their sci fi, but they were written before a lot of technology came out. And so the technology that he forecasted was very simple advances. And that's what this guy was talking about was things that were very simple advances. But they were six hundred,

eight hundred years in the futures. The world is only fillion people, And why do you need cities that are like stories tall? Well, they were. They had anti gravity and they could just float all over the planet, live where they wanted. And so you know what, this week we're in Rio, next week we're in the Antarctica. I don't know they have ships like that you can live on. They do? They do? So okay, the sidebar, I guess, well we've gone off. I think we have so either

this whole like fusion with Philadelphia Project or Aliens. I

guess they're not mutually exclusive. They could have both happened, but Aliens apparently there was some some contact with aliens that happened at the Montalk project through this time tunnel, the stable time tunnel, there were some underground tunnels with abandoned cultural archives that were explored on Mars using the technique where apparently some kind of Martians had once lived thousands and thousands of years earlier, and there was contact

made with the aliens through the time tunnel. I guess that gave them some kind of advanced technologies to enhance them Ontalk project so that they were able to actually do the initial time tunnel without alien technology, I guess, and then they somehow the time tunnel also opened into a space tunnel. All that also took us to Mars. I think it's one thing for me to make the leap of hey, this this time tunnel opened up and it it opened up to someplace that's like pretty close,

just like you know, forty years ago or whatever. It's another to say, hey, this time tunnel opened up and it opened up five thousand years in the future on Mars. I don't I mean, I don't know how those things work, but yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know, that's the thing about it is, it's like the universe is a huge place, and and actually inhabitable places that exists

are an infinites only small. Yeah. Yeah, so it goes out to a random place, it's probably just going to be empty space, or the inside of a planet, or the inside of a star. Yeah. Those all seem like really dangerous things to right you. Every time you hear about a time tunnel opening up, it happens to be in a place that isn't the vacuum of space that sucks the entire world through this into a black hole, right,

I'm and that seems rather convenient to me. Well, they did that on Stargate once they that's true, they had to frantically shut down the stargate. But they happened on Stargate, which, by the way, I'm going to go back to Stargate every time you say time tunnel because it sounds like it. So they just they were just like channel surfing and they came to the Yeah. Yeah, they went to this planet and it had the ring, and that planet was being sucked into a black hole. And the guys that

went out there, we're all being spaghettification. Is that what it's called when you get sucked into a black hole? Because you're you're stretched out and and time slows down, and so they were they were watching everybody slow down and being spaghettified. They had to quickly shut it down so the ground he didn't suck the world through the Yeah, yeah, get to the gate. Ye sorry, I'm just I'm just telling you right now. I'm going to do that every

time I can. Apparently this allowed a broader access to hyperspace and also developed allowed a language of hyperspace to be developed. I just don't even that kind of like esperanto or is that like a mathematical language. It's unclear. I have to be honest, it may be a language of mathematics. I did not try to look it up. I want to be honest with you. I don't know that we could actually. So there's some other stuff that's really interesting, and this is kind of my bullet point list.

The first interesting fact connected to the Montalk Project other than the ones that we've already talked about, are that apparently Nikola Tesla faked his death in a conspiracy and was the chief director of operations at the Montalk Project UM and was through I guess through the eighties, which would make him like a hundred and twenty something like

that years old, So that seems really true. But he was he was when he died, if he was in his eighties, like his early you know, I've seen pictures of not long before his death, and he didn't look that hot. He didn't look so good. No, he did not, And reportedly he was getting a little bit flaking the head in his old age, as most of us do. Yeah, especially when you play with electricity as much as he. Yeah. Yeah, so so I'm not sure it would have been much

used to the project. However, happy I would be that Nikola Tesla was still alive today. Yeah, I would be so happy. Well, haven't you watched Sanctuary? He's a vampire. He's totally alive. You've never seen that show. Oh, I'm totally going off on random TV shows? State, aren't I? The Sanctuary ran for like three years, but Nicola Tesla was was a vampire. I guess I'll go watch that. Then. It's pretty he's a super smart guy. Yeah, Thomas Edison

is another vampire. That'd be great. No, Edison was a vampire. He was just a jerk. Yeah, he really was. Okay, next little tidbit of conspiracy there are reports from the nineteenth eve means that nineteen seventies, excuse me, that surveillance showed quote, the formation of a large bubble of time space centered upon the site unquote, which is apparently proof of the time tunnel. Apparently there was pictorial proof of that, which conveniently was burgled from the only person who had it,

which seems like a normal thing for satellite surveillance. Well, yeah, that that guy was Remember that that guy, I can't remember his name now, but he was a reporter, right, No, no, he was, he was. He was a Russian. Yeah, it was a defector from Russia. He was interviewed by a reporter. I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, and he had he had access to satellite surveillance and he was like Russian and South American. He was so weird combination Spanish, Russian, something like that.

And as soon as he spilled the beans, then they broke into his apartment only stole the papers. I know now that could have like mess the place up and stole his TV too, just to cover up. Yeah, but I seriously would like to know from why would you steal the TV? You know how TV? Yeah, they were only about this anyway, the I really want to know what a bubble of space time looks like. I would like to know that too, because yeah, how how does it look at a different from the spacetime that we

exist in right now? I don't know. Maybe it bows out, I don't know. Maybe everything looks super spaghettified. I don't know. Yeah, that I can't answer. I have not seen that on TV yet. Yeah. Apparently, also at the mont Talk Project, people had their psychic abilities enhanced already amazing theory that allowed them to materialize objects that would of thin air.

They could just think a thing into existence. I guess they couldn't all do that, but some of them, my guys, were so so incredibly advanced and powerful that they could actually, like and one of them, one of them, like like materialize a big foot out of air, and it went berserker and started destroyed, destroyed like re levels and they had to be Yeah, did you hear the theory of why the YETI was was created or was brought in? Oh? This is this is this is way down the rabbit hole.

It's absolutely I can't remember the name of the guy that supposedly was had his psychic abilities enhanced, And of course by having those abilities enhanced, he had other issues like emotional issues created. But he and some other people at that time, I think it was in the eighties. They said because it shut down on eight three. Right said that they realized that the project had gotten out of control, and so what they did is to shut

it down. When he was in they had a mind chair where there it was an alien chair, which is also a stargate phenomena. He sat at it and he thought of the worst monster he could and he thought of a seven foot yetti. Went went through and rampage through the complex and rip the place asunder, doing so much damage that the project had to be shut down, and they saved our timeline. I um. I was kind

of hoping that you were going to tell me. It's like from Ghostbusters with the Marsha with the stuff Marshall Man where they were like, okay, think of anything you want, and he's like, don't think of a yettie, don't think of a yetti. Don't think of a YETI crap, I thought of a yetti. That was my hope. Apparently, also at the Montalk project they put microchips embedded them in the workers brains to control the people who worked there, or to make them forget that they worked there or

totally make sense whatever. Also apparently, um, the Montalk Project is where they train the Men in Black two quote Yeah it might be. So that's that's another part of it, right They apparently the Men in Black were developed to

quote confuse and frighten the public. Also the Montalk Project where they staged the moon landing, or possibly they tunneled to the future with their time tunnel to get technology from the aliens, or they tunneled to a time when people could go to the Moon and just then wait, wait, wait, wait, this is I've seen most of these these things here. But you're telling me that the Montalk Project is responsible for either a making the Moon landing or re faking it. Yeah,

both of those possibilities. Yeah, yeah, that that potentially they faked it there, right, they staged it there, or this time tunnel existed and they got the alien technology that that enabled them to actually go to the Moon. But either way, it wasn't just like United States ingenuity that let us go to the The thing about it is is there's no evidence of any alien technology and the

Apollo program, I mean, are you kidding me, Crown. Oh, okay, you win, ok yeah, there's no need for alien technology there. I like the Civil War one. Yeah, apparently. Also some of the things that one of the things they did with this time tunnel was they went back because apparently the first time we did the Civil War it went the wrong way. So they fixed the outcome of the Civil War. So the South one the world was so

terrible that the Confederate is at the South. The Confederacy's version realized it was terrible, made their own Montauk project to send people back to make sure the Confederacy lost the second time around. I guess I don't know, I don't know. Maybe it was people who were, you know, like still fighting for the North. Who I mean, not still, but you know, there are people who still think that the Confederacy should have won right in two thousand fourteen.

So maybe it was the you know, the obviously the smarter people. I was gonna say, because most of the people who think that they fly the flag, they drive the truck, they drink the beer, and once a year they go to the re enactment. They don't build quantum machines in their garage. I have a lot of choice derogatory things to say. I mean it, it wouldn't be the Southerners at the south and one right, But that's what I'm saying is that the Northerners would have then

they would have said, wow, this turned out bad. Let's create a lot of really advanced technology and go back and fix it. But the thing about instead of flying the flag and going to the re enactment once a year, you know, But to think about it is is that if the US had split, well, there's a couple of different outcomes. One is that things might have turned out

better or just perfectly. Okay, the South would go do their thing, we do our thing, and so you know, it wouldn't be seen we see it from the perspective as of us now as the South winning is being a hideous thing. But maybe as far as the north it goes people living in the North, it would have been. And so the only thing is slavery. Let's throw that out there. Slavery, I mean, slavery was going to go the way of the Dodo. Industrialization did away with slavery anyway.

I mean, it would have gone. He's got a point, that's true. Yes, slavery would no longer be existing in the twentieth century. On the other other hand, you know that the United States, if it were split up, might not have ever become a real world power and might not have even participated in World War Two. So I don't know, it's a big question all these unnable noble things are It's true. Um so more things that happened at the Montalk Project. Um, the Jersey Devil was created there.

We haven't tackled the Jersey devil. What is the Jersey Devil? Is the good question? Yeah, and that's I mean the question the devil. No, I mean the Jersey Devil is a cryptozoology creature, like a came era kind of thing. Well though, it could be a bigfoot, It could be something like a the Tasmanian devil. It could be a uh, could be a chupa cabra it, it could be a lot of things. Could be a bat man guy, could be a situation. This is the thing again. I'm sure

we'll do a show on this, yea, we probably will. Also, apparently AIDS was manufactured here, because that's the thing. Steve is looking at me like I am the person who believes this theory, the idea that it was manufactured one. You know, if you really want a new hideous disease to come along, I gotta do this sort of sit back, drink a beer in a way for sub Saharan Africa to crank a new one out. I mean that's all

there is to I mean, look AT's say, for example, ebola. Yeah, but the problem right, okay, so the thing I okay, oh my gosh, I can't blue about to do this. But the thing is is that like ebola you catch as a rich person, just disease lose, you could catch as like a as a poor person. Right, I mean it's an airborne illness, right, it's a it's whatever. It's communicable in other ways other than like physically having a right.

So the benefit of AIDS, right, Ostensibly, if you were going to manufacture something is that you would just say I will only have contact with people I no, do not have this, and then I will never get it. So I guess unless you got a blood transfusion or something like that, but they clean that stuff out. Yeah. Now, then because there might be some rare fraff, you might want to just letally know that I'm going to let

that go. Yeah, you should Yeah, anyways, just as a so, I guess that's why, like last big one, the whole the whole thing is still standing. That's my last theory of things that happened there is the AIDS thing. Oh I thought it was your does the which was my favorite phrase of this is how we're just gonna know,

We're just gonna let that, we're just going Yes. So the whole thing, the radar and the building that it's on top of, and ostensibly the fifty foot titanium pyramid below are still there, and the and that the soldiers with, So that that's exactly the segue, right, is that apparently this base is abandoned. It's just part of the State

Park in New York. But ostensibly people say that civilians visiting the park or park are routinely threatened by armed government agents that are um ordering them to not venture into certain areas of the park. Apparently, electrical workers report having installed a power station capable of using giga watts of energy, like enough to power a city. And apparently every once in a while, strange lights or shapes are seen on the sky over head anywhere. And here's here's

here's something that's weird. I wanted to kind of get an idea of what the place looked like today, So I went on Google Maps and checked it out, and I was looking at the street map, no big deal. And then I wanted to try and figure out where the satellite was or the radar dish, so I turned it onto satellite view, and then thought, well, I'm just gonna I'm gonna pull a Joel and I'm just gonna

cruise around the streets and check everything out. Except you can't because every time you come around a corner there's a couple of guys with eric no, no, no. You know how when you when you're in Google Maps today and you go and you what do they call the little guy that you drop on the map? Yeah? Whatever he is, he's got a name. I can't think of it. Whenever, whenever you get the map to come up to show

where he'll go. All the roads around Camp Hero, they all stop on the street view at a pretty significant distance away from the main center of the installation. Is it the border of the state park? Like, is it not a well to go into the state park at all? Well? You can you go down a road? Because I did. I went to a number of them. You go down the road and then there's a gate and there's a giant sign which you can't read because of Google has

fuzzed it out. But there's there's a gate, and then I mean there's a number of smaller roads that look like they feed in off of the edges, and I went over to those, and every one of them it's the same thing the Google truck stopped. It seems like these gates, if it's a park, would be open to drive down at some point, but Google never managed to get in there. And every time they, i mean, they fuzz out everything that is on there. You know how you when you're in the street view, it does the

little window where you can zoom in on stuff. Like let's say you're looking at a house and you want to zoom on the house. When you look at that entire area, that little zoom window is gone in the street view. It's not until you do a one eighty and you're looking away that it comes back. So it's a little weird that you can't even zoom into any of it, which would add a little creedence this theory of well, maybe something still going on. Yeah, but think

about it. Is is um. If they've still got stuff going on, then why go to the hassle of having you know, like like guys sneaking around the woods with guns when you can just keep it in your own possession, not turn it over to the public, not have the public walking around, and still have your fences and armed guards saying, hey, military base, you can't come in, and there's nothing suspicious about that, but you have to keep

You've got to do some kind of upkeep. And if you give it to the state and say the state, this is your park, you've got to maintain it. But by the way, keep your little cretans out of this area, and we'll just have a little contingent walking around patrolling it to keep people away, because you know, people get on foot and they wander around. They have no idea, so they just they're they're scurrying all they're making sure

everybody scurries away from it. I guess my other thing for the keeping a base would be exactly what you're saying earlier with the populated area thing, where I think you know, when they initially made camp hero Long Island was not nearly as populated as as it is now, So keeping something secret and operational as a publicized air Force base is much harder. It would be like trying to do something on the Air Force Base or I guess it's the Air Force Reserve or whatever. That's you know,

down by the Portland Airport. You drive right past it and it's kind of a secluded area. But if there was weird stuff going on, people would know, just because people kind of live around. So I got you know, I guess there's some kind of I see both arguments that. Yeah, I still think if you're that paramoid about secrecy, just move out to the desert somewhere out west. But that's the problem is that there's all kinds of installations that were out in the middle of nowhere. We're built up,

you know about the here in Portland. Out on the east, there's in Beaverton or west side in Beaverton. There's the monkey Farm. You know about the monkey farm. There's the

monkey Farm. There's this place that is a primate facility, and it is in the middle of Beaverton, which folks who aren't from here don't know, is a very populated, very urbanized area, and there's a lot of people driving around and living in that area, and I worked on a campus that was directly next to I mean property lines intersected, and I'd be in the parking lot and you could hear the monkeys. Its facility. I don't think

it is. It might be, but the point is they built that thing a long time ago and kept adding onto it. If they sunk a lot of money into infrastructure to build this facility and they want it, let's just say they're doing nefarious things because we would hear monkeys yelling all the time, and then they're doing strange things there. Well, you can't just pick that all up and move because that's really expensive. So instead you just say it's one thing while you do another. Yeah, you

can do that. But at the time they started this facility, I mean I mean New York and like just just north of there is Connecticut, another very populous place. It was already very very densely populated, you know, back in the forties. Yeah, whenever they started, so I mean, they didn't have to invest a diamond it. They could have

just gone somewhere else. But it was also I remember in reading they went there because he was right on the coast, so it was easy to bring everything in my boat loaded up and haul it however far you know, a couple of miles at the most, onto the camp. And so it's easy. Secret submarine. Yeah, your secret submarine. Because frankly, I've I've looked the island over that end of the island over fairly carefully, and I saw nothing resembling wharves or dogs or anything like. So it's gonna

have to be the secret. I'm on board with that. So that's the story of the month. This is this is when we're actually gonna have to postpone solving this one. I'm sure we have at least several listeners in New York and so do not suggest something that is going to get people arrested. Joe, look at the well, if this is all true, it's not going to get him arrested. It's going to get them shot. So get your asses

out there. Takes if you can, if you rent, rent like rent like one of those little Caboda things, you know, those diggers, you know, and like those little those little earth mover things, and just do some digging out you know what is actually a really huge fine digging up state parks. Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, pretty illegal, even just like just digging in a state park. I mean, you know, it's one thing. If like there is a secret base there, it's a nut. I mean, even if there's not, it's

a pretty hepty fine. I would rather I would rather have a crew of Larper's dress up as as g One crew and go running through the park and see if they can blend in and get into the site. Then have them start digging up so that they if they can see, they can find the first level of the underground base. I want, I want, I just want to see what the signs say, the Google signs that are blurred out. I you know, I have a feeling

it's nothing nefarious. I think it's probably innocuous. You can't drive past here, like no no ngicular traffic pass this point. It looks like a lot of texts on it probably says state park and here's a many many rules and yeah, yeah, it's probably a giant rules all of our state parks so like that, there's all kinds of sign in, tons of tons of rules of I just want to know. So what do you guys, what's your favorite thing that might have might have happened to favorite the favorite theory

or what? Yeah, I guess I'm not willing to call these theories necessarily just like suppositions, things that might have happened there. What's your favorite thing that might have happened there? I really do the guys that could make things materializing. The guy makes the jetti pop out of nowhere and it tears the place apart. Pretty good. That's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, I okay. Are we going for favorite for fun or favorite for believing? Well, let's do favorite for fun? Why not?

Very rarely do favorite for fun for favorite for fun? I'm sorry, I'm Joe many to upend his It's okay. I I kind of like the theory that that Al and his buddy Mr Cameron had where they were lost in time, because it makes me think there's been a number of movies of military men from the forties who go into the freezer cooler and wake up in the eighties. Yeah,

stuff like that. And he's he's saying that. I think it's Al was saying that he had no recollection of ever working at the Montauk project, and then people who knew the project. I might be misremembering the person. It might not be Owl. I can't remember that there was somebody who said yeah, somebody who said they had no memory of working at Montalk, and then people who worked there were like, hey, totally righty nice, you know, I don't know you until to the point that he got

really upset, and then suddenly the memories started coming. That was the guy who said there were microchips in the brand? Is that who said that? I don't remember his name, but yeah, you see, I couldn't remember if it was him or the guy who could make things materialized. I think it was microchip dude. It might that might even be the same person, because you remember then you know,

it's you're living a double life. It's pretty awesome on accident. Yeah, it's it's kind of a neo situation that red pill and the blue pill or both. You know, you just took them both, so we're just going to mix them, see what happens, Just you know, have fun. I think it wouldn't it be a weird, weird way for the movies to go the matrix if he was like, um, I'll just take a both. I'll wake up inside the matrix, but forget everything I ever knew. What about the so

much pill? Was it the red pill? Where he goes down the rabbit hole. Yes, so yeah, what if he's taken the blue pill, there's the end of the world. Yeah, you know. The next hour and a half is him in his office just you know, it's like he's going about his business and he keeps running this, keeps running into what's his name, Morpheus, and keeps running into Morpheus, and Mors says, are you sure you sure you don't want to take the red pill? Dude? Why are you

always trying to give me drugs? Are you trying to get me fired? I gotta take a pee test tomorrow. He's at the Starbucks to say. Morpheus sits down and say, Jesus Christ. Uh, that's a movie that needs to be made. I think this is awesome. I was just going to say that my favorite theory is Nikola Tesla, but I guess the X is more interesting. No, I like Tesla, like as the director of operations. There yet of stuff.

I like the director. Yeah, the director of operations, Like that was that's a very specific like they weren't like, hey, he was in charge of the place. They're like this was his job title. It was director of operations, not not chief of operations, not CEO, right, not like CEO, not like commander in operations or whatever you call yeah, whatever you would do in the military. No, he was

the director of operations. It's a very specific title it is, which makes me nope, operations which apparently facilities probably replies to write or reports to. But I guess you know, director of operations. That leads some credence, right, super plausible. Yeah, I gotta be honest. Okay, I like the story. It's a lot of fun. Can I now say what my

big problem with this project? I guess it is. I think Joe, you might have mentioned this earlier, is this story is a prime, prime candidate for people to just chew on. And I think that this is yeah, and this is what this is. This is the hard part. It's like I kept reading it trying to find Okay, we're some credible stuff. What what can I try and track down it's really real instead of these fun anecdotal things. And it's like watching you know, it's it's cracks and glass.

It just it just keeps spreading and you don't know where it's going. It's confusing, and I think I think for a lot of these stories, you don't know if it's somebody and maybe I've said this before. In fact,

I'm sure I have. There's not people out there, people with an impi sense of humor on the internet who copy all this stuff over and then tack on a few things like, oh, let's have somebody materialized stuff out of thin air, you know, using this power of his mind, and then that gets copied over by other people and then well, there's a bunch of books that have been written on this place. I tried to track them down

in my library, but unfortunately they don't stock them. Surprisingly, but I was really disappointed because I wanted to try and read some of this stuff to see where where what sources because uh Al, when I was listening to him, his sources were a friend in the government, a friend that I know, a friend in the military, which is just not a credible source, and it's really difficult to

to get a good handle on. Yeah, so that's kind of why I attacked this story the way that I did, which is probably the best way to do with this whole Okay, there's this one kind of anecdotal thing that you can't I mean, there's no hard evidence for any of it, but at least there's some stories from it seems different points of view, and whether that's just like different people writing it or whatever, it seems that like at least people are lying who substantiate the evidence or

the anecdotal evidence versus like one dude says, oh, yeah, Aids was there, right, one dude says, oh, by the way, men in black trained there. You know. I think that, so I wanted to kind of focus on this stuff that actually has at least a little substance to it, even if it's not good science or good evidence. I don't think any of this stuff has any substance. I think that they're there have There has got to be truth in some of this. I'm not saying what it is.

So let's say the people who got chased off by men with guns, they were probably trespassing at night and a park ranger came out and yelled at him and they maybe we're a little inebriated or something, and they saw he had a gun on his hip because he's a ranger and they carry guns. A dude in a gun in the dark chase just off. Like, I think that that's how some of this starts. But really that's my heart that's my biggest struggle is I think that

there's something here. I just can't pinpoint it because there's just so much fluff around it, right, And I guess that's the big question for me that I'm left wanting is like, why did the government build this radar facility that was like obviously about to be obsolete, right, I mean they basically they built it and it was obsolete. Why why even spend all this money at this site to do this? Well, no, you gotta remember that a

there in the middle of the war. Be they move slow and technology is cutting edge today, but it takes us a year and a half to build this huge thing. And in that time, oh, well, we've had a bunch of scientists working and they figured out a better way to do it. I guess I can see how that happened. Yeah, that's the sort of project is like I was, I was talking about that submarine. There's been a lot of

a lot of money on that particular project. You know that there's all kinds of stuff like that where they don't go into service because they get superseded right away by something better. They still spend a ton of money and building because it takes a long time to source. And I mean today I can say I want to build this, I can draw it on the computer. I can send it to a vendor. A vendor can drop that plan into a machine. The machine laser cuts it out and boom, it's done. But fifty years ago, I

had to draw it all by hand. I had to write out all my specs. The dude had to get it, had to figure it out, had to had to teach his guys how to cut it and how to file it. And it took months to make that one part. That one widget took so long to make that it's understandable why these things, by the time they get a made just are useless. Yeah, I guess that's fair. So that I guess that would be my only kind of question

mark with this whole thing. But yeah, I mean, if there is something there that that would point to one obvious thing, which is the person who's the person and parties who are creating all this gobbled ego around this thing, and there's just an incomprehensible mishmash of tall tales surrounding the thing. That party would have to be the government men and blacker. Once you were doing it, yeah, right

to create confusion and chaos, fusion and basically negate credibility. Yeah. Yeah, well that so the mere fact that this thing is so ludicrous may actually is involved in it's Will Smith's fault. It is, yeah, welcome to earth. Um, So, I guess that's it. Always solve that one quick, but so links or in pictures on the website. That website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. You can listen to us there.

You can listen to this or other episodes there. You probably have just finished listening to this episode somewhere, so you didn't finish listening to it, so you're not been hearing this at all, So if you don't listen to it there, you can check us out on iTunes. If you do check us out on iTunes, please leave a comment and a rating. We really like getting those. I'm liking all of the fallout references everyone's making. I appreciate that.

You can also stream us directly off Stitcher if you forget to download before you head out into the wild green yonder Um Long Island to do some dig. Yeah. Man. You can check us out on Facebook. We have both a page that you can like and a group you can join. There's some interesting discussion that happens around there from our devoted fans. Uh. And you can, you know, if you do go out to like take a picture of these signs, or you are Nicola Tesla, just send

us an email. The email address is thinking Sideways pod cast at gmail dot com. We love to hear from you. You know, as much as I want Nikola Tesla to send us an email, I really feel bad for his great grandchild who's going to have to show him how to do that. Great Grandpa. This is how you click the button to send the email. Yeah, he invented the Internet. Probably he's actually Steve Jobs too. He was Steve Jobs, fake Steve Jobs. Now he's gone, he's moving to the

next person. Yeah, so I guess that's it special request. Uh. Any of our listeners that tend to go to military surplus auctions, and I know there's at least some of you out there. Keep your eyes peeled for a titanium pyramid tall you can probably pick it up for tucks. Yeah, yeah, keeping a good deal. Yeah, we'll buy it back from you for twice what you paid for. Well, So, on that note, I guess we're gonna head out of here. Um. Thanks for a listening, guys, and don't forget to tune

in next week for our anniversary episode. Bye everybody dot. Are you sure it's next week? You sure it wasn't this week? I'm pretty sure it's this week. We missed it, guys, unless the spacetime bubble burst. I think I think we're okay. That's that's what it was the problem.