Thinking Sideways: The disappearance of Rebecca Coriam

to talk about the disappearance of Rebecca Korium. This was originally suggested by Grace via email in like April two thousand and fifteen, a while ago, which seems weird because that does literally seem like that was a few months ago to me, but like the middle of the summer. I know, I'm not really ready for that idea yet. Um, but this is a mystery that I've known about for a while and has been on my radar for a while. It's just this side of five years old. So we're

gonna do it perfect. I'm just gonna do a quick little summary. Rebecca was four years old when she disappeared from a cruise ship. Yes, we're doing cruise ship mystery. No, it's not the one you want or that other. There are lots of them, but we'll talk about that in a minute. And you know, I think this is on that drinking game that people keep talking about. But you may or may not know that I worked on a

cruise ship for a while. And actually, um, the reason that I know about this case is I've known about it pretty much since it happened because the first ship that Rebecca worked on ported in this same ports as my ship did twice a week. I believe it was three times a week, twice a week, and then my last day on a cruise ship was literally like three days after she disappeared. Okay, so what doing story? Yeah, let's do the story. Yeah, because there's a whole bunch here.

There's there's quite a lot of story, a lot of stuff here. Yeah, it seems kind of a simpler mystery when you first sent it over, So I was really surprised at how much content there was. Yeah, yeah, there's there's like why people are exciting about it, Yeah, maybe kind of it's a little mysterious. Rebecca was attending Plymouth University studying Sports Science and Youth studies. When she was a teen, she was a British Army cadet and she taught UM sports at Camp America in Maine. Rebecca was

from Chester, England. In two thousand ten, Rebecca interviewed for Disney Cruise Lines and was offered a job which is actually pretty competitive, unlike the ship I was on. She got to go to Disneyland in Florida for training, which I'm super jealous about. Disney World, right, Disney World, Yeah, in Florida. I want to go to the one in China. It just opened. Actually a friend who opened that one really yeah, really interested in she's the lead of the

pyrotechnics department there. It's really cool because if it euro Disney and it's a trip to be in Disneyland in another language, and I sort of maybe kind of know some of what's going on, but I'd really like to see it in the one that's in China. Was Yeah, I want China. I want to go see that replica of the Titanic that guy's building. Yeah, it's gonna be awesome, Yes it is. I want to see the miniature reproduction of the Great Wall of Okay, so Rebecca was placed

on the Disney Dream. I'm pretty sure that's the one. Uh, it never really says, but that was the one that I was with, and it's the contract that it looked like she was on. So and for the record, I keep saying this, I never met Rebecca or anything like that, so I don't worry m but I know people who worked with her. So, so she was on a four

month contract. She did a two month vacation in between contracts, which is pretty typical, and then she did her next contract on the Disney Wonder, which ports out of l A. And I think her first cruise was actually relocate cruise because when they talk about her time on that cruise ship, they talk about going through the Panama Panama Canal, and a relocate for those who are unfamiliar, is outwardly facing called the repositioning, which basically a lot of cruise ships

do winter kind of bad months in the Bahamas and Eastern Caribbean and then they come over and do the West Coast Caribbean and yeah of the United States and the Alaska cruises during the summer, so they have to reposition. Basically they go, you know, through the Panama Now and up, and it's usually a fourteen day trip, and um, guests can go on those trips, but also you know, obviously the crew has to be on board at the same time. Probably, Yeah, yeah,

they do. Although I you know, I was really jealous. I saw when the Wonder was going over for the first time. It was a brand new ship and they did their Atlantic crossing without any passengers because it was brand new ship, but they had crew. And then they also did their first run of their three day loop without any passengers, and so you would look over and

it was just crew members. Like we had these big laundry buckets that you would, you know, dump all the laundry into, and they were just like running down the promenade like racing each other like it was, and they got to just they had the fore run of the ship, and you know, these ships are big, they're made for a lot of people, and it was just the crew. Yeah,

because really awesome. I was so jeal because normally, as a crew member, you can't go into all the fun party areas where the guests are some you we'll talk a little bit more about the culture of cruise ships in a minute, but you some people can like I could, um, but not very many people. You did mention something that I want listeners to understand, which is the sheer scale of these ships. Oh yeah, I pulled up the maps

they are and these were they these were the small ships. Well, these were the maps that were the ones that are available on the internet from Disney that show you know, so you can pick your room, what what deck you want to be on, and it's still so much space, let alone all the areas that passengers don't get to go to. Those I actually looked at those maps. They're pretty representative. It's just like three decks below that they have. Yeah, those ships are so gigantic that I expect it's to

be another five or six decks down there. Well, you can't go too far down because you get into the mechanics. That's what. Well, that's what i'm including when oh you are then, yeah, I guess I don't I don't actually know the actual scope of I don't want um, but yeah, they're pretty representative of what But they're giants. When you look at these rooms and there the average cab and I think it was on this Disney ship was two

square foot. Yeah, that's a big to me. That's the big round on a ship that is actually quite a bit room. But did you look at the map. There are thousand and two thousand square foot suites that are just I couldn't imagine those things. But of course they're way high up, but it's just it's a huge ship. Tons and tons of room, tons and tons of always get lost on those things. Member crew members that probably have like thirty six square feet, you know, they're little

in their little cell closet. It's yeah, it's less than that. The Yeah, so there are rooms uh that are I would say, yeah, probably about thirty six square feet, but you share that with like three or four people because it's bunk. It's bunk. It's four bunks up. It's it's four bunks tall. So you've got the four bunks and then there's a little there's a tiny little wardrobe for each person that's built into the wall. And then there's two desks, spaces, and um four safe and that's it.

Oh and a bathroom. Well actually in those ones, I don't think they had the room that I was in. I had a bathroom in mind, but I mean it's the kind of bathroom where the whole thing is the shower. You know, there's a drain in the middle of the floor. Yeah, it's like that. I think I let us astray there. Sorry about that. It's okay. I mean, it's all stuff that we will end up talking about. Almost true. Rebecca

was a youth worker. I think Disney actually calls them youth activities counselors, which seems like still an oddly normal name for Disney. You know, this is the kind of place where Disneyland. I think everybody's called a cast member. All cast members use activities. Counselors are basically there to keep their babysitters, keep the kids busy. Drink, Yeah, it's go drink. Yeah, I know that sounds really awful, but

it's true. If you've ever been on a cruise ship, you know that's what you do, is you go drink. I went on a cruise and it was no kids allowed, and it was the greatest thing ever at first, until I realized how drunk all the people around me were. Yeah, yeah, are they all inclusive affairs? I mean, do you get all your your food and booze? Well, okay, so I

don't know how DCL works. I'm sorry. Disney Cruise Lines I'm going to call it dc L. But the line that I was on, which I will not name, is the kind of thing where there are certain restaurants and buffets on the ship that are included, and then there are others that you pay on top of your feet. And I don't think any of the bars, except for

of course the casino bar, were a complementary. But there were a lot of events where you could get complementary alcohol, Like when you boarded the ship that I was on, they handed you a hurricane. A lot of the ships charge you for the booze because that's where they're making some serious I have I have family that would go on at least two cruises a year, and they were always packing their cocktail mix in their luggage. And you have to pack it in uh you know, like mouthwasher

some thing like that Bill coffin skate. You're not allowed to bring liquor on. Do they actually look at your luggage? Yeah they do. Yeah, it's rather cheeky. Why it goes. It has to go through a scanner and everything. Are you kidding me? Do you imagine? Can you imagine a bomb on a boat? I guess that's true. I'm just saying this, like, boats are scary enough as is, So let's talk a little bit about Rebecca again. That's a good idea. Rebecca was described as generally a happy person,

a kind of a prankster, all around upbeat. You have to Disney. Well, it's interesting. There's an article we're going to reference a lot, which is the Guardian article. And the author of that went on a on a Wonder cruise and he was talking to somebody who one of the guys who was re varnishing railing and he said, you know, okay, so what's it like actually though, you know, what are you guys like actually? And he was like, no, no, it's not an act. Would you kind of have to say?

But I think that the people who get hired for Disney versus other cruise lines are Disney people. There generally, there's a certain there's a certain brand of people who like working on a ship for Disney, just like there's a certain brand of people who love to work at the theme parks. If it was me, they'd never hired me because they know I would have gone psychotic in the Goofy costume two days in absolutely and going to work with the public and all that you've got a

kind of a happy person. There's a natural inclination that they're looking for. Yeah, and it's you know, Disney specific. I mean, I got hired on a cruise ship, so anybody could, but you have to find the right one. It also sounds like she had a partner or a lover on the ship, but we'll kind of get to that later. Yeah, I question of that, but I do too. Yeah, onto the story. On March eleven, the Wonder pulled out of the l A Harbor, heading on a normal voyage

down to the Mexican Riviera. Rebecca sent a Facebook message to her parents saying she was planning to call the next day. Later that night, Rebecca was hanging out with one of her friends in the crew area, and she referred to it as a secret corridor. And we'll talk

about that later too. The that Guardian article, the author actually spoke with that friend that that Rebecca was hanging out with, and he called her Melissa, which I don't think it's her real name, but we're going to use Melissa because that's the only name I have for her. And she said, you know, she said they were hanging out in this secret corridor. Which really just means on monitored crew hall, which there are some. Again, you know,

we'll talk about that in a little bit. Melissa reports that Rebecca had been trying to peel her fake eyelashes off. Seemed vaguely like the sort of thing that she would do when she was drunk. You know, that's sort of like drunk person Melissa's fake fake eyelashes. But she had just gotten off work, so I don't think she was drunk. And that's highly frowned upon, isn't it. I'm drunk. Well, and again we'll talk sure about that in a little bit. I don't want to break up this story too much, um,

so we'll circle back around to that. I would think there'd be nothing else to do. Again, we'll circle back, Okay, Yeah. Melissa says that Rebecca asked her she was going to go to the crew bar tonight or that night, I guess, and Melissa said she would, but ended up not doing so. And then I haven't been able to find the CCTV footage of this next part, so please keep that in mind.

But apparently at AM, Rebecca was on one of the internal phones with someone, and reports are that she seemed kind of distraught, and she hangs up the phone and another crew member walks up to her and appears to ask if she's okay. This is CCTV, so there's no sound, and I have seen actually still some of this footage, and I can't I really can't see how they can even recognize whether it's Rebecca, much less whether she's distraught

or not, because it's so fuzzy, it's so low rich. Well, it's hard to tell if it's you know, with the low rez stuff. Sometimes it's easier to actually tell what's going on when it is moving than it is from screen caps. And then again I don't know, since I haven't seen the footage, I don't know if it's actual screen caps or somebody took a picture with a crappy

phone or what I've seen. I've seen. I've seen that the only thing we've all seen probably the same two or three images, and they are extremely hard to tell what's going on. So I questioned it too, It's like okay, sure, yeah, well, so apparently she seems distraught and then her crew member. The fellow crew member walks up to her and says, are you okay? And she appears to respond yeah, fine, and people report this is a clear lip reading. There's reports that the phone call was recorded, but I'm I

don't I'm not sure if that's true or not. That's what that's what I heard. But that's kind of creepy that they're recording everybody's internal phone calls. That's a that's a massive amount of data. Did you think about the massive Well, that's why I'm not so yeah, that's why I don't. I don't just call the all the all the camera footage. Yeah, yeah, I think I think it's

likely that they have phone records. I mean, I think I think that Disney's telling the truth when they say that they know who the call was between, but I don't think they know what was said. That's silly. I

agree with that. Anyway. Rebecca walks down the hall. She's seen quote pushing her hair back and putting her hands in her back pockets unquote, which is apparently typical behavior for her according to her parentscorn to her parents and her friends, and then that's the last time anybody's ever

seen her, at least officially. Officially. Rebecca was scheduled to start a shift at nine am on March twenty two, but when she failed to show up, um, they obviously raised the alarm and paged her and checked her room and searched the ship and nothing. And this is very important to note because you will see this overlooked in almost everything. It's very important to know that the night of the One was a s eday. And what that means, for those of you who don't know what that is,

is that the ship did not port at all. It left l A. And between the time that it left l A and the time Rebecca disappeared, it was in the middle of the sea the entire time as soon. Yes, I mean, they never go so far that it's insane. Well, I mean sometimes they do, but on these routes, they're pretty close to the sea, but it's you don't You don't. Yeah, I'm pretty close to the land, but you don't see it pretty dang close in fact. Yeah, So that's very

important for a lot of reasons. But I'm just going to keep mentioning that. And they did search the entire ship before they made port. Very important. Cool. There was an early report that UH fellow crew member said that they had seen Rebecca go overboard at three am. Obviously, with the discovery of the CCTV footage that is incorrect. And also, I will just go ahead and state that if you see someone go overboard, you call a code. You don't just ignore it and go to bed. You

notify the bridge. And if you don't actually for somebody come forward and say, yeah, I saw somebody go overboard at three am, but I didn't notify anyone and didn't try to render help. Could be a terminable offense if not having charges. Yeah, because you're responsible for their death basically, not I mean, not entirely, but basically. So I think that that's been added to the story, if I'm honest. But that's just my opinion. Man. Admit that the Wonder

and the crew of the Wonder did report. They called it in. You know, they let the Coastguard know, They let the Navy know, the Mexican Navy know, They let pretty much everybody in the area know. We're missing a crew member. We don't really know when we lost this crewmember, but please can you help us look for her? So the US Coastguard and the Mexican Navy did search the international waters that the Wonder was sailing through in the

time that they thought she might have gone overboard. I think they kind of first they were thinking maybe it was three am, and then they found the CCTV footage and then they thought, okay, so in between probably six am and nine am, she went overboard, and I think they probably used some deductive reasoning and thinking probably it was before daylight. It is reported that the seas were rough at that time, so it's pretty unlikely that she would have just been, you know, floating there waiting for

somebody to come find her calms bottle water. Yeah, but I heard that that night that she went overboard. If she did, do you go overboard? It was kind of rough seas, right, Yeah, that's what I mean. You know, it was rough seas, so it would be unlikely without any kind of floatation device or anything like that, it would be hard. I think, you know, if she went overboard,

she would have been lost. And the difficulty is not knowing exactly when and where she could have gone to the water, because I actually tried to track down the conditions of the sea at that time, but what I kept running into is that it's location based, and then when you get farther out, it was really kind of tough. Yeah. I could never say, oh, yeah, I know there was this giant storm. I couldn't find any of that easily. But I also don't know why Disney would lie about that.

And we'll talk about this in the theories a lot more. There's gonna be a whole bunch of of theories of finger pointing of lying Disney. Yeah, I assume that the security on the ship did a preliminary investigation. However, since the Wonder, like almost every ship that does any circuit kind of around America, is registered in Nasaw in the Bahamas, the incident happened, and the incident did happen international waters, it fell to the Royal Bohemian Police Force to investigate.

One officer was assigned to this case, which does seem slim. I will agree with that that I mean, it's it's the fact that it's a big ship. I totally understand. And he only arrived after the ship ported back in l A, so I think that would have been like four days later after she disappeared, and he only spent a day on the ship. Rebecca's parents, Mike and Anna Maria, were notified on the twenty that Rebecca had gone missing. They were obviously there in England, so it was night,

very nighttime for them. They were about to go to bed. They had been already worried anyway, because you know, they didn't hear from her that day. They were Yeah, they flew out to l A and met the ship in l A. Also on the friday after she went Rebecca went missing. They claimed they were kept in a car with darkly tinted windows while the passengers disembarked. Then they were taken to meet the captain, who offered condolences and

told him that he thought Rebecca had gone overboard. Her parents were then taken to a meeting with some Disney executives and the woman that had reportedly been on the phone with Rebecca at am c CCTV TV footage. Yeah, I just packed all those letters out, That's okay. It was rumored to have been a mutual friend of Rebecca and this mysterious partner or maybe the partner, but I think it was. I think it was a mutual friend.

And now this is a shame. But Mike and Anna Maria didn't get to ask a lot of questions in that meeting because they, I mean, you know, they were very jet lagged. They hadn't slept since Monday night, right, they slew Monday night. They woke up Tuesday morning and they hadn't slept the entire time. They'd just flown in from England, and frankly they thought they were going to get to talk to this group again, which it turned out, no,

they weren't. They also have expressed that they were just they really want to talk to the passengers on the ship, and now that it's a lot of people to talk to, it confuses me a lot. You know, there are this the Wonder is approximately the same size as the ship that I was on. That means that there would have been probably assuming that it was even you know, partially full,

it was probably like guests and nine hundred crew. So the likelihood of just randomly finding a passenger who interacted with your daughter who works on the ship, who is frankly only on the ship for a couple of hours while you would have maybe interacted with her, seems slim. Well, yeah, and they could do something like before they disembark, put put out something on the PA system so everybody can hear and say, hey, whatef our crew edwys disappeared, please

come look at a photograph. Ever, but you know, they like to make it a happy thing. They don't want to actually be put stuff like that out. I was gonna say, I'm I know, I'm just to say this right now. I'm not going to defend Disney. I'm gonna sound like I'm defending Disney in this several times. But they're not. They're not going to do that because what do they want their guests to do. They want their guests to have a great time and spend a bunch of money and come back and do it again. Yeah,

so of course they're gonna everything is insular. You keep the parents here, you keep the crew here, you keep the guests over there, and never shall they mix well and frankly, and it's too big of a pool of people. Well, yeah, I mean I think the thing that Disney probably thought, which is what I think, is that there's I mean, there's no reason, there's no reason for any of these passengers to speak with distraught parents. Yeah, there's just not

that would take day. And frankly, um, you don't really You probably don't want the passengers to know that somebody disappeared from their cruise. That's not something you want passengers to know. There's there's good reason that cruise lines keep that kind of information kind of buttoned up. Yeah. Yeah, so you know, and actually not that many people disappear up cruise ships every year. But we'll talk about this a little bit. Yeah, So, Rebecca's parents were after they met,

had this kind of short meeting. They were taken to her room and given her things. One of the items they were given was either a pair or one slipper or flip flop. I'm not quite clear on which one is, pink and flowery. I usually hear it as flip flop, but I've seen the slipper one singular. Yeah one. This slipper slash flip flop had been sound the morning of near the crew pool. UM. It's on deck five, in

the bow of the ship. It's pretty typical of cruise lines to have a crew pool, have crew specific areas, you know. As we're talking about UM, I would say that like of the crew, well probably more like six of the crew is not allowed in passenger areas at all, and then on top of that, only like five max probably more like two of the crew are allowed to socialize in passenger areas. That means passenger bars, passenger pools,

passenger restaurants, anything like that. So would that you're talking about be people who are working like laundry services or engine maintenance or or those kind of I know these are very broad categories, but those sort of things that guests have no reason to know you exist for okay. Yeah, And there are a lot of ways to get around to every area of a ship. I mean it's even

things like the maintenance people. You're allowed to be in a crew a very specific passenger area to perform your maintenance task, and then you have to use the nearest crew door and get back into crew quarters and crew area to get to your next spot. You can't walk through passenger you know, hallways or anything like that. Um there who underground? It's huge. Oh yeah it is, and it's all over the place, and it's really well hidden

throughout a ship. If you've been on a cruise ship, you probably were walking right parallel to crew members and you didn't even know it. But you know, you want to get you want to keep your crew happy. I mean, they're stuck in this tin can, so they we get you know, we would get our our own bar, you get our own swimming pool, you get your own um lounge area. You get your own mess hall. I wouldn't

call it a restaurant. I wouldn't say it's necessarily very nice, but you do get your own mess hall, get your own um gym with weights and workout equipment and stuff like that. I mean it is. It's it's crummier versions of all the stuff the passengers have, but you get all the stuff that passengers have, and it's a good use of that bow space that like, what else are you going to put out there? You definitely don't want passengers on the bow. The ship's definitely the ship. Yeah, yeah,

it is. And I mean that's a good point to make, is that it's it's pretty much the roughest, most dangerous

area of a ship, which is why. Yeah, and you can you can see photos of that, by the way, Yeah, I would encourage you to look at those pictures, and you can find pictures specifically with crew members, like when you know, any of the ships are going out of port or anything like that, you can see there's crew standing there, So you can really get a scope of what the size of everything looks like, because it's hard to tell when it's just a picture of the bow

from land. It's almost impossible to tell what's going on. Did you guys see the Minecraft version of this ship? No, it's really cool. Somebody I didn't. I don't know how to play mine Craft, so I didn't do anything. But you can download she was on the this is the Dream? Is that correct? Wonder? Thank you? Somebody built the Wonder in in Minecraft. Holy crap, But I watched a quick flight through. It's really interesting. You have way much too much time on their hands, like people like us podcast.

What do you do with this thing? I don't know. I don't know how Minecraft works. Please nobody send me an email on how Minecraft works. I just haven't looked it up. We do know how to google, I promise ye. And there's okay. So there's also some mystery about the slipper flip flop thing, because there's been some speculation that it wasn't actually Rebecca's, could have could have been left it by anybody, anybody on the crew. Yeah, yeah, anyone on the crew. That's the end of the story, and

that's the end of the investigation. The only other things really are that. Um. About two weeks after Rebecca's disappearance, her family got an email from a bank. That's that there had been some activity on one of her accounts in the last few weeks. This gave the family hope that Rebecca was alive, but I think it was a bit misplaced, and apparently they had not previously been aware

of this account. They were eventually able to find the paperwork in Rebecca's things that she had opened this account, but they didn't find her cards. Yeah, it was just a regular credit card. It wasn't a bank card. Yeah, you know, I think she probably got it in America. Yeah, probably in her training time. Yeah, So that gave the family some hope that she was alive. But again all

this stuff will talk about in a minute. And then after that, in that September, Rebecca's uncle Ye found that someone had changed the password on Rebecca's Facebook and I

think they had been maintaining it. The family had been maintaining it just too uh, you know, if somebody was trying to contact her, or maybe she was trying to contact her, you know, her, to keep an eye on and you have access and also to maintain as am amore and Facebook now will turn pages into memorials, and that changes the way that they work a little bit but apparently somebody logged in and changed the password, which again gave the family a little hope that she was alive.

And then on March one, two thousand and twelve, a woman emailed the family claiming to have seen Rebecca in Venice. She said she was eight five percent sure it was her um, but Rebecca's passport had been in her belongings, so she would have had to find a different way into Yes, easy, you just go to Libya and hire a smuggler to take you across in that tranean it's safe. Yeah, safe as a young white woman. You're right, Los Angeles to Olibya is super easy. Really, you just swim, I think, yeah,

an adventure. Yeah, let's circle back around and talk about just a couple of things real quick. Here, we've got the CTC can stupid a closed circuit television. Yeah, so there's closed circuit television or CCTV. Because I can say it all over cruise ships, and you can imagine, I'm sure that there are is less CCTV cameras. There are less cameras in crew areas than there are in passenger areas. I'm sure you can figure out why. But there are a lot of areas that one could go that wouldn't

be covered by cameras in crew areas. It's I mean, if you're not going to monitor every hallway that you know the crew people are going to be in, there isn't isn't in any area of any consequence. Yeah. Well yeah, and you're not as concerned about the crew frankly, which is kind of, you know, callous to say, but it's true. You cast a wider net on their activities. You don't

try and focus on every angle of the hallway. Yeah, exactly, So it is I guess it is possible that Rebecca moved around the ship without there being any more CCTV footage of her, although I do I do think there probably was at least one camera at the crew pool. That seems like the on of place on the bow

of the ship mentioned. But it's also notable that the author of that article was very clear in the fact that he couldn't tell if that was a new or a previously existing He said, there are cameras on the promenade, the deck four promenade, which is where he originally thought that Rebecca had fallen from until he started talking to the crew. He said there were cameras there. He didn't have access to the crew area, so he would have had no way of knowing if there were cameras in

the crew pool or not. See. I thought somehow he had gotten himself into the crew pool area. Okay, then I'm I'm wrong, which is not surprising. Yeah, if you won my ship and somebody let him in, you would be in big old trouble, like a lot of trouble.

Fast doesn't get you in there. Well, his wouldn't, that's true. Yeah, And they might not have had one of the crew pool actually as possible, but it kind of looks like, but I can't be percent certain, kind of looks like from up on the bridge in the control room where you know, the captain and the pilot, isn't everything they would be able to see down into the crew pool area. Yeah,

so well we'll talk about that in theories. Yeah. The other thing I do want to mention is um I you know, talked about Rebecca being maybe seeming a little drunk um possibly drunk. Yeah, and but she was just getting off shift, which makes me think I thought she got off her shift at like what to she just got sorry when she was trying to pull Melissa quote unquote Melissa's ear. Yeah, that she had literally just gotten done with work. Um, and so that makes me think

that she was not drunk because it's super unallowed. And that's not to say that people don't break the rules. And yes, it is true job that it's almost the only thing to do as a crew member when you're not working is to drink um. But there are a lot of really really harsh restrictions on that. And again, I didn't work for DCL. I worked for a different cruise line, which again I'm not going to tell you which one it was because I don't want you to know.

But on the cruise line that I worked for, crew members were forbidden to have a blood alcohol level above point oh five, like seriously, for I mean, this is for a ton of reasons obviously, um and does apply to literally all crew In fact, it's the that's the minimum or the maximum, I guess is really the better way to say it. Obviously, the higher ranking you go, the less in toxic did you're allowed to be. I

was friends with the first mate on our ship. He was one of only four Americans and the crew of nine. I was one of the other four and uh, he was only allowed to drink off ship and had to be under point oh two at all times when he was on the ship. Well, I mean if he's not drinking on the ship, I can even be point oh

two when you're at port. So we actually had before you walk back on the only time I was on that ship for six months and I hung out with him a lot, and the only time I ever saw him drink was when we had to stay in port overnight in Nassau because there was a storm that we couldn't get out of port. And that was the only time I ever saw him drink. And he had two drinks over the course of like six hours and that

was it. And like that's life for those people. Again, you can imagine why you would require your crew to be that. So, hey, we have this major catastrophe follow drunk the lifeboat exactly. I mean the crew is the emergency crew. I mean there's no one else to help you off the ship if something goes wrong, and so you can't. I mean they are like, you know, the

crew is the firefighting crew. And it's not just there's some people on the ship who are specifically firefighter crews, it's like no, no, no, you leave your job that you're doing your other job and go fight that fire that's on the ship. If somebody's having a medical emergency and you're on the medical team, yes there are doctors on there, but there are also emergency or emergency medical responders and they're selected again from all different areas of

the ship. And so if it happens that you are super super drunk, like really really drunk, and something goes wrong, suddenly you're in charge of trying to get people off a ship. It's this huge liability on top of that. While we're talking about liability, of course, there's the liability of you know, if you get drunk and do something stupid. Technically the ship is liable in ways of like if you hurt yourself, but also if you heard a passenger

in any way. Yeah, you can't get drunk. You really can't get drunk on the job, and you're required to stop drinking two hours prior to your shift. So I don't think Rebecca was drunk at that time. I think she probably was drunk later. So this is not World War two sailor drinking style. No, no, no, no, can I ask a question real quick. So the close circuit television of supposedly Rebecca on the telephone was what time

do we know? What was the okay? And the friend under the name Rebecca Melissa says that they were hanging out at about two am and she was supposed to be reporting for duty at nine am. That's what I was thinking to um this timeline. I mean, I get it,

she's she's in her early twenties. Sleep doesn't matter. I remember those times a long time ago, But like that, that just seems That's one of the things that always kind of makes me scratch my head about this, this whole series of events that are laid out of supposed sightings of her. Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's not Rebecca in the CCTV footage, but I also don't necessarily think that she intended to stay up that late.

I mean, frankly, when I would go out on the ship, you know, my job was less intense than the one that Rebecca was doing, but you know I would go out and you stop drinking three hours before your shift, you sleep for those three hours. You wake up and you go to your shift, and you're probablyngover and you're probably gonna hate yourself, but it was fun for a while. I mean, it's it's pretty easy to do. Yeah, and actually, um, when I'm sleeping on a cruise ship, best sleep in

my life. It's it's totally dark, there's the slight rocking. You're in this little cocoon of a bunk. It's great. I guess there's also I guess the thing that I forget is part of We all have to wake up and get ready for our day and then commute to the job. There's no community. Could probably wake up twenty minutes ahead of time and shower and brush your teeth and have fifteen minutes to just figure out where you're at. Yeah, exactly, Okay, get a cup of coffee, a little brecky. Yeah, theories

I think we should talk about. Yeah, unless you want to talk about, you know, the cost of alcohol and crew bar or anything like that. Cheap. Oh yeah, you could get a corona for a buck, and you know, bottle of wine for like three bucks. There's no liquor in our crew bars, although I've heard from other people that DCL does do liquor in crew bar, But I think that's silly and I don't think they probably actually do.

That's how they make it the happiest place. Maybe. Yeah, I'm gonna get a couple of little business housekeeping things out of the way before we actually do theories. First off, Um, this like stood out to me a lot. Well, no, it stood out to me a lot, and I just got really annoyed. So I just want to say it right off the bat. One of the threads on Reddit that you'll read links to an A. M. A with

a quote unquote former cruise ship employee. Yeah and uh he or this person claims that you just like drop the bodies off of the nearest port if somebody dies on the ship, which is not true. You drop it off with the nearest port to be shipped home. But the way that it was represented in this whole debate made it sound like like a cruise line care so little for deaf on the ship that it would just drop the body, would just drop them off at whatever

little island they were docking out. Who cares if it doesn't have airplane service. We just got to get the body off the ship, exactly, and that is the lat I just want to make sure that nobody takes it that way when they were reading about this, they call fed X and fed X drivers they're waiting to meet and when they get to the port. No, actually not Brown doesn't do that. Also, if you read some of these am as, you maybe don't notice that, Yes, two years ago I did share my thoughts on this case

on one of those threads. And yes, I'm saying almost the exact same thing now. But you guys keep asking for this story, so we're gonna do it anyway. A right, Okay, So now it's really theory side. Now, it's really because the house keeping out of the way, house keeps all the way. First theory murder, It's possible, but I found it. I find it really unlikely. Do you think it was Mickey Mouse? No? I don't think everybody. I've got a

big knife. Sorry, that was goodness. Okay. So I've read and you will probably read too, from people who were quote on that ship literally a week before unquote, and they said that their cruise was perfectly smooth. Same, so there's no way that the could have been that rough. And obviously the crew is lying about it. You know, you know what actually dictates the sea and the weather and stuff like that, the weather and you know, what

is liable to change pretty quickly the weather. I'm actually weirdly going to defend these people a little bit because the one time that I want on a cruise, it was beautiful weather the whole time, except for the last night heading back to Florida, and apparently we went through some pretty rough seas. The person who was with me was nauseous from it being really really rocky. I, however, had been partaking of the booze to the point that I had passed right out and was soundly sleeping through

the whole thing and had no idea. So I can see how people was. The sea was great the whole time. I never noticed anything. I drank like a half a bottle of boo. But it's also possible that a week before the sea was perfect, Yes, and the sea changes on an hourly Basis that that that they're lying about

the weather. YEA, yeah, no, that's silly. I also don't it doesn't give me such a problem that the bank card was used, because if somebody murdered her and taking her bank card, they would have used it multiple times maybe. And also, you know, I don't know if you've got I've got a few things like Nextflix, for example, they justly ding my cart the best thing ever hand, and

so it could have just been that. It could have you know, one of the things that you do when you're on a cruise ships you get a p O box. I mean, like not everybody does, but it makes life so much easier if you go and get a Post office box and you just pay the monthly subscription on your card and pay the monthly fee or whatever. There's so many things that could be so I it doesn't really we don't know what it was that the withdrawal was for we as I could not tell. I mean

it was hard to tell. A couple of people I saw online saying oh, it was found to be the subscription, but I think that that I think they were just assuming, like we are, that it was a subscription because I wasn't ever able to find anything to substantiate that. Even the credit card company wouldn't tell her family was Yeah, and you know, even if even if it was stolen and used one time, I mean, it's not that's not it's not so hard to get into other crew members rooms.

That's why I was actually thinking about just an online hack. But yeah, there's a lot of different ways that somebody could have gotten that. I mean, also the Facebook log in. I don't know about you that you guys don't actually use Facebook that much. My boyfriend also does not use Facebook that much, and um, he gets little emails from Facebook all the time saying, hey, somebody tried to access

your account from this place. And I think they do go after those accounts that aren't used as much, because it's like the people aren't going to notice that they're hacked if they're not using their account, so that doesn't account more, you know, weirdly is uh, Evidently they do this on a regular basis, but I didn't know this is you guys heard about the recent leak of all the LinkedIn information. I apparently was in that batch and Facebook figured it out because they forced me to change

my personal account password recently. Right, but they forced you. It didn't just happen automatically. Right. But what I'm saying is that I could have been hacked at any time and would have not known it. It's only because of them, because I had no idea what was in that leaked batch, and those leaks come out much later, so it's it's very easy. I agree that she could have just been hacked.

I mean, how many times have we had people try to join our Facebook group who looked like perfectly normal people when you review their online profile, and then as soon as they get in there offering to sell sunglasses ray bands for super cheap to everybody. Exactly, It's yeah, it's impossible to tell. So I guess I'm not so bothered by that either. Yeah. Sometimes people share their passwords

with other people too. Yeah. One thing I was reading about online, um was and actually this person made a really good point was that you know, if somebody love dies me, you know, friends have passwords or it's easy to guess what their password is, and it's not unheard of that you would, you know, log in to their stuff and you know, maybe you get drunk and change the password. I don't know, maybe you want to go

in there and delete some derogatory stuff. I was going to say, there's that that rule among friends that hey, if I die, there's some certain things that you need to remove from all of my profo. He was. I mean it was significantly later than that though, I mean it was September, so I understand that, but it would

explain having the password. But This says nothing to explain the whole murder theory, So there's not any good substance to the murder theory except for the vague rumor that Rebecca might have been in a love triangle between her lady Love and a quote unquote older man. I can't I really can't find a source for this. I can't find any additional information other than basically that one sentence said for different ways to basically many found out about

Mickey and her yeah something like that and pushed her overboard. Yeah, well, think about it. Is is the crewis besides besides the swimming pool up in the forecastle of the ship. Um, where else was there that the crew could go? Where there was they were actually in an open place with the railing where somebody could push her overboard without anybody noticing,

guaranteed no one noticing. Yeah where? Yeah, Well were there places where there there where a crew could go mix next to the railing with the passengers, or they could or there was where their places set aside besides the pool, where the crew could go and have a you know, a nice little outside, little promenade space and you know that they could look at the ocean from or something

like that. I mean the promenade space. But if they would have to be approved, I mean, you know, Rebecca was approved to be would have been approved to be in certain passenger areas. The promenade would have been one of them. But I don't know. I mean, I don't since I don't know who her lover and this older man were, I don't know, you know what if they would have been allowed up there or not. And I also know that it takes but a second for somebody

to walk out a door onto the promenade. Okay, but you know, I was just thinking if you wanted to murder a crew member on a cruise ship, you know, if you wanted to murder one of your fellow passengers, if you want of the guys that can afford to get a really nice cabin with your own balcony and everything, that you can lose somebody in your in your cabin and then murder them and just push them overboard. But they're going to be on tape going your room. The problem. Yeah,

there's ways around that. He's cut He just cut the cable. That's not a thing. But yeah, I mean they're all like installed in the law or you know, I want to buy the tricks. It's not what you see at the seven eleven with the big co x cable loop. But you can just take a take a sticky note and just stick it to the lens and you're taking nobody go that's weird. This person disappeared, and this line

actually would orange for a while. That also assumes that there's only one camera in the hallway, which I can tell you is not true. They're about every six or seven doors and passenger areas anyway. But we're off topic here. Let me go back to what my original point was. Is that if you wanted to murder somebody and you had your own balcony everything, and you can probably get

away with it. There's ways to do it. But if you want to murder somebody down in cruise quarters, how the hell are you going to get their body up to somewhere where you can pitch them overboard without somebody seeing? And I guess the cameras to The addition to that is that you I guess you could technically do that off of the promenade, but again, it'd be really hard

to guarantee that nobody would see you. You could do it in the crew area, except for the walls too high in the crew pool area to pitch someone over why I'm gonna I'm gonna pull the famous card, which is you're making a presumption. Okay, so let's say that somebody has a reason to kill her. Well, that doesn't necessarily mean that they dumped her overboard. They could have stashed her in something that they knew was going to go away in a not so well monitored area. Well,

you know, it's completely possible too. You know, actually a hell of a lot easier. You know how they deal with trash on cruise ships compacted, So you shove down

the garbage shoot. I know that that sounds cruel, but it's what people if people have done this stuff before, is they shove the body and the compactor, and they run the compactor and then when it gets back to wherever it goes and it pushes out that big giant cube of disposed mickey ears there's a body in it, but nobody knows because it's picked up by a forklift and driven to the landfill. And the probably doesn't that great. It actually smells probably worse than a dead body. It's

a complete and total insight. It would have to be for murder to have worked a pretty well engineered or spread across several people to pull off. And I don't think that's what happened. I mean, getting getting to the trash compactor again without being seen going to be kind of hard, not really, I mean, or you'd have to have a friend who reset the switch on that camera so that you know. I mean there's loops and all

of that. But let's just say somebody shut it off or shut off a bank, and you run and you toss it in and nobody knows that you know how to get to it. In a blinder, there's a bajillion I'm using air quotes ways to make this happen. I don't believe any of it. I will just say in defense, um, everything used to transport anything on cruise ships is a little bigger. So you know, when you're talking about trash cans, you're talking about its smallest to those twenty gallon big

old guys that you roll. I mean they have, you know, three or four times that size of things that collect trash as well. So I mean all you have to do is get to one of those and then bury it a little bit and then lift it up and dump it down the shoot and there's no I mean, yeah, it's our really shoot, but yeah, but there is there is that whole question of why would anybody want to

kill her? Why would anybody want to kill her? And then also, you know you have to have an access key card to get into the dump, yeah, because you know, actually, as it turns out, just not every crew member is allowed to dump things for good reasons. Yeah, like what we just talked about. Okay, so we'll go ahead and

say that's a bad theory. So besides what you spend time in that cruise ship was there it was it filled with unhappy, psychotic people, or it was was it filled with fun loving, you know, outgoing types who wouldn't be likely murder? Well, it's interesting. I feel like the people who know about the disappearance rates from cruise ships are always saying things like, yeah, it's just drifters and rapists or the only people who work on cruise ships.

And I would get away with you, Well, I would say that it is true that, um, there are a few, but there's nine people on the crew on the show. Like the odds are in the favor that there's going to be at least one or two crazy creepy skiezy people. But I wouldn't say any of the people that I worked with were psychopaths. I wouldn't say any of them would probably murder anyone. And you know who to stay

away from. As crew members, you just do if somebody's kind of skiazy, you stay away from that person or you and you know where the cameras are and you make sure that you're there if that person is coming. That's just what you do. So I which I know it sounds crazy, but it's true. I just don't think

that somebody probably murdered her. That's silly because why Okay, the next theory is based on the fact that somebody was sure that they saw Rebecca in Venice, that is, that she facured disappearance, but almost literally impossible because it was a se day and they searched the entire ship, So she would have had to have some accomplices to not only um to not only hide for that entire day,

but also to get off the ship. Because I don't know if you know this or not, but the comings and goings from a ship are highly monitored and they are only like two ways to get off a ship, and there are security guards at all of those points, both on the ship and landside. It'd be almost impossible for her to just slip by unseen. Yeah, and you gotta, don't You get it like an electronic card when you board a ship as a pass that you have to

scan as you have your crew. If your crew member, you have the same thing, you have to scan it on and off. They don't, then that's how they know if everyone's on the ship or not about the passengers. So yes, crew and passengers, A passengers, everybody has a card. Yes,

all right, So here's actually did it? So she borrowed if she lifted a card from one of the passengers, actually borrowed it and then attached it to a carrier pitch and when she was safely on shore and the pigeon brought it back to brought it back to the passenger, and it just so happened that that passenger wasn't trying to leave the ship that day. Yeah, that makes sense.

One of the things I've noticed, though, is that nobody anywhere mentions whether any lifeboats were missing, So I had to assume they didn't do account and there has to be a missing life bone. She must have taken one. Those are really easy to tell Rebus. I mean, you know, if we if we're gonna, I'm gonna piggyback on that idea. I haven't seen a whole lot about it, but I mean people would then have to make this kind of Disney was complicit in the whole thing. And this is

a Chessler situation. Did you you guys have seen fight Club? Okay, well, the Boston fight Club. His name was Chessler and it was the he got him in such a bad situation to blackmailing to say, you're gonna pay me and you're gonna let me go. And that's the kind of situation that this would have to be. It would have to be a Rebecca caught somebody doing something so horrendous and Disney said, well, either you're gonna sleep with the mickeys

or you're gonna disappear, and they said okay. She said, okay, Well get me off of this ship, don't tell anybody, and I'll never don the ears again. And that's that's insane, but it's it's on the same level of I feel like faking the disappearance. I also think that kidnapping is in the same vein. Really, how do you get her off the ship? Well, not only how do you get her off the ship, but like why why do it on a sea day? Right? Why do it overnight when

there's like no reason for her disappeared? Why don't you wait until she gets off the ship in port or when they're in port and you can take her off the ship, like precisely, I mean, and that's it's absurd. I mean, it's kind of like committing armed bank robbery on a ship when there's no bank there. And I guess that's not a perfect analogy, but your sense your

kidnapped people on land. Yeah, yeah, you can't kidnaps. You could, I guess, kidnap somebody on a ship and then try to smuggle off the ship somehow, But it really seems like an absurd thing to do. I'm going to go back to the same question again. Those Okay, So if that's the case, if she was kidnapped, why is Disney hiding it? If there's because there is cameras every and everything is so regulated, why are they just going well

and here and here's the deal. If she was kidnapped, where it's the ransom demands they can only assume she was kidnapped in order to be murdered, in which case we're back to murder. I guess, well, she could have been kidnapped for sexual slavery, but that's a different story. That's true. I was figuring the ransom demand was pinned a Pluto, and we know how good he is a

delivering thing, that he's bad at it. The next theory is suicide, which I'm kind of willing to entertain, but I'm just going to blend it with the next theory as well, which is it's an accident. So either it was an accident or it was a suicide, yeah, or intentional death. And I've got an emails from people about about suicide, people who knew no more about it than I do, you know, and so I don't claim to be an expert on it. But from what I understand

about Rebecca, she was pretty happy. I'm not I'm sure she wasn't totally happy and cheery every hundred percent of the day, but nobody is. Nobody is, But she seemed like she was a pretty upbeat person. Yeah, I would agree with that. Not likely, not that that necessarily means that you're not suicidal, but no, it can't happen. But yeah, seems like she wasn't the type. Yeah, so I guess even if it was an accident, it probably was a

bit of an intentional accident given the conditions. And you know, again, this is trusting that the conditions are what Disney says they were. We've already said that the weather was probably bad that night, and in fact, i've I've read that the weather was so bad earlier that night that whoever was commanding, I think it was more around midnight that

this happened. But whoever was commanding, who was on the bridge, looked down and saw someone down there and the area in the pool area, crew member in the pool area and sent security to get him in because it was too dangerous. Um the same ship, because I had heard something about someone saying I had a friend that was in the pool area when they shouldn't have been in high season. They had to be rescued and then they were shipped home. I thought it was the same one.

But I could be mistaken. This is the problem. I thought it was the same night, even always mixed with a ton of personal anecdotal stories. Well, this time I knew about that's why maskt Yeah, well I think sorry, go ahead. I'm kind of wondering too, what it's like. You know, you got a full full pool out there, what happens to that water? It's just just all slash out and then just run out through the scuppers and

that's it chlorinating the ocean. And then they got to refill the refill the pool or sometimes you can really get pushed around the deck by a big wall of water. Yeah, I see why they would take people out of there. Yeah. Well, the so the wall in the crew pool area is the bulkhead looks appears to me to be something like six plus feet high. Would that be correct. I've heard just like ten feet high. I don't think it's ten ft. That's why I was saying, you should look at the

pictures with the people around it. I think it's probably six ft. I don't think it's probably ten ft. That's why I'm not sure, because I've looked at the pictures and I can't get a good a good case. But out there, well you see this thing where it says, oh, she probably just climbed up there just to sit up there to look around, and then it was an accident, something happened and she rolled overboard because of that, you know. But again I don't know how tall it is, so

I think it is. I mean, I think it's six ft tall. And in that picture I just showed around and again I'm encouraging everybody to go find UM. You can see crew members standing on standing while standing on the wall next to the pool, and then standing next to the wall, and it does look like they can see over it at least, you know, within a couple inches. Maybe it actually makes sense, you know, the kind of prison like to have these ten foot walls surrounding you

when you're yourself. And to I mean to your point, I don't have a problem with the idea that Rebecca might have climbed up, probably not the side of the wall, but even more, you know, forward on the bow or even towards the rear, I mean towards the more towards where the bridges and stuff like that. The superstructure of the ship. Yeah, I'm not sure if there's a lot of room there, but you can hop on. So the way that it's set up. Again, go look at pictures.

Is UM on the bow, there's it's covered a then it dips down into the pool crew pool area area. But in right next to where that dips down is um these big pods that holds life rafts that you know expand. Um. But you could hop onto one of those. They're not very tall, four ft tall. You could hop onto one of those and then hop on to the

bow pretty easily. And um. Having been on a cruise ship and drunk on a cruise ship, one of the most refreshing feelings, especially when you're getting a little stir crazy and a little upset, is to have sea wind blowing in your face the world. Yeah, which is again that exact thing is why passengers aren't allowed to be in that area. But um, I don't have such a hard time making the leap of you know, maybe it had calmed down, maybe the weather had calmed down. Um.

Random swells are a thing. Say, yeah, it's not so hard for you to be on the bottle of the ship and to have it just go put down into a little you know, ditch depression an area and you would just slide right off, or a ship or you know, a big wave comes up or whatever. Um. So I don't know, it's what's typical practice on a cruise ship. But do they have like lighting, spotlights anything like that. Would anybody up on the on the bridge have been able to see her if she was up on the bower.

Would that have been in darkness? It probably would have been in darkness. Well, I don't think it probably would have been complete darkness. There's probably some standard minimum lighting in an area that people can easily access. Yeah, but you would like it to be under spotlight. No, but you also weren't supposed to be there out out there at night. I mean, they didn't lock it off, but

you weren't supposed to be in there. Um, so there's probably a little lighting, but I don't I mean, there definitely weren't big spotlights down there that the you know, the people in the bridge could have looked down and said, oh my god, there's a person down there. I think that's a good question because you didn't always see this thing. Of Well, if the crew had been in the bridge have been paying attention, they would have seen her if

she was in that air maybe actually not lit. Yeah, but I don't know if you've ever been in I mean think about you know, in your car when the dash lights are on, but you can't see your headlights. It's kind of hard to see outside because you've got that in that illumination in front of you. Well exactly, that's why I would think that they would not want to have a lot of bright lights there. Of course, I don't know what they use. They might use night

vision these days for all I know. But I mean, it's mostly just instruments, it's not it's mostly not you stand. You know, you're obviously not standing there with the wheel or whatever they call it. Um, you know, steering. That's that's the other thing people are accusing Disney and negligence. But I don't even know if i'm modern ships, if people are actually standing there staring out the window all the time and they do stand, they yeah, there are

people in the bridge. But I was just about to yeah, I mentioned is that, Um, that's absolutely true. It's not as though you're standing there staring out into the open ocean. You're in there monitoring, But it is not your job to be looking down, you know, in the front of the ship seeing is there anything there? That's not the job anymore. Probably you probably are looking at your radar more than you're looking at your windows. And do you know how hard it is to stare ahead in the dark.

It's hard trying to Yeah, it's not easy. I mean it's really easy to get distracted and look around because if you've just had a joint. After all, they didn't they do something about alcoholic They didn't say nothing about pot. Well you can't have it. That doesn't make it the most magical place on her. Yeah. So here's a list of reasons that I think Disney is not lying about a lot of things. Um point number one, They've paid

me loads of money to say that they're not lying. Yes, this week's episode is not brought to you by It brought to you, Yeah, thanks to Disney. Yeah, I mean, I I don't think No. Point Number two is that no one in this Guardian article or anybody that I've seen from Disney Crew Cruise Lines who's been interviewed around this disappearance disputes that it was bad weather. And almost everybody who was interviewed agrees that you probably went off the crew pool and bow area, which means that Disney

paid them a lot of money too. Yeah. The only thing that they're really disputing is that Disney probably knows more than they're leading on to which is definitely probably true. I would totally believe that Disney is not telling everything. I suspect they're keeping it mysterious. I mean, you know, they probably have more CCTV of the foot of it than they are releasing for a few reasons. One is that they probably don't want to have to answer the hard questions like is that pool area safe for crew

to be in? Is it safe and only certain conditions? And if it's safe and only certain conditions, why isn't there a fail safe to not allow people out there when it's bad conditions? And then you know, if the weather was bad and it was late h CCTV footage

may not be good. They may not know. There are reports that Disney has sent one more piece of footage to like the FBI to be cleaned up, but there's never been any follow up on that um and so maybe someday we will see something, but I don't think so. So is that are you inferring with that? And correct

me if I'm wrong here? So I'm asking, are you inferring that what's going on is that there was a camera that in a dark in space caught something that could possibly have been I'm saying that, I'm saying that I am still not happy. I'm not satisfied with their not being at least one camera on the bow. And so if it's if there, I think there probably is at least one camera on the bow that probably did

catch whatever happened on the bow that night. But since it was dark, it's not night vision, it's bad weather, it's probably not very useful. It's totally possible that they caught somebody walking out there and sitting down and getting swept off, And you know, that raises a whole bunch of other questions like why wasn't security watching that at that time? And why didn't somebody call that? But on top of that, I guess there's also a bit of a fear of if that's not Rebecca, did somebody else

come with thing what happened? But the hard thing for me is that, Okay, let's say that there is a camera there, you can't immediately say why wasn't security watching Have you ever watched security footage cycle, it's always four panels on a single monitor. These four guys are probably watching a half dozen to a dozen monitors. And if things are easy to to overlook, especially when they're poorly lit. You go it, screwpool, it's black. Ignore that. You don't know.

You're looking at something else, something blips by, you don't see. I mean, like, I'm not justifying that anybody being lacks of days ago in their job. But I'm also saying it's it's the sure amount of content that they have to be looking at. Yeah, the one, the one liability thing. And even this, I would say is questionable. I guess they should have locked off the bout. I should have locked off the crew pool when the weather got bad. They should, you know, of course I don't. I don't

believe this. If I was, you know, I mean, you could probably bring a successful lawsuit for something like that, for negligence. If I was on the jury, I would say, screw you. You know, Rebecca was twenty four years old. There was probably a sign there saying, hey, don't go out here in bad weather. She ignored it, you know, But I think there's more than it's common sense. Yeah, there's that too, he don't go out here in bad weather. Hey it's bad weather. Maybe don't climb on that really

really wet, slick thing. Don't do it. Why would you do that? But again, I was on a ship in really high winds, and what did my friends and I do. We went to the highest exposed deck we could and we we did the stupid thing. We weren't on the rail, but we just leaned into it and I had a friend it was at degree angle, like this is so freaking cool. Well, you know, again, I will say, I've been on cruise ship. I've been drunk on a cruise ship, and I can tell you that I had some close

calls more than once. I I think, probably too close calls because as I was being drunk and dumb, and I was young, and actually, you know again, another reason that this case is close to me is that Rebecca is was the same age as me, you know, so we're making dumb, bad decisions on cruise ships at the same time. And um, I guess I got lucky because I wasn't making quite as bad decisions, but were in

the in the right place at the wrong time. But people go overboard, or guess go overboard all the time, maybe twenty three a year on average, and that's just reported, and that's out of that that's out of like twelve million passengers a year. Right, But I think the estimation is that I think it's something like fifteen or I reported. Well.

Part of the problem there is I know that some of the stuff that I've read is that a lot of the numbers that are reported our deaths on board, and there's this whole thing of cover up of guests on the ship. And it's not really mean. As we talked about a little bit before. It's not as wild and hidden, but they may get easily known. This person in Crazy Seas who was eighty years old happened to be on the stairs and fell down the stairs in

Wild Seas and died. So yes, people die, but but they are kind of apparently brushing under the rug some of this stuff because Devon was in the minority, which is people from the United States on a ship like this. I know, I'm a bunch of the people that I met who they were from Slava Lady was from Slava countries, like this is the best way to make money. It's not that great of a thing, but I come here for nine months and I make two years worth of way.

I think the statistic for the cruise line that I worked for is that of the employees were from the Philippines. UM and that's a hugely marginalized group and you know they weren't treated particularly well, and that's true. But you know, I think if if they're from the Philippines, are from a low income family, they go overboard, you probably just pay the family and don't ever report it, because why would you. I mean, yeah, again, this is where I

sound like I'm defending Disney and I'm not trying. But you know what I understand why they're not saying this. You know who would love to have the luxury that the cruise lines have is the airline industry. We all know when a plane goes down, and a fewer planes go down now than they did ten years ago and twenty years ago. I mean, like the numbers of plane crashes are getting smaller and smaller and easy beats, he nothing events like scary things are now being lifted to

the level of a plane crash. Cruise ships wish they are airlines, wish they had the luxury that the cruise ships to which is just I'm not talking about yeah, no, no, no, I'm gonna talk about it. Well, one person goes overboard or whatever. You know, it's not huge news. It's like not like two hundred people in an airline are getting killed, right that that's much more. That's a better headline. Well and as maccaba as this sounds, um, there are people who go on cruises to die. I can see that.

And that's when you know, that's one of the things. I know I've talked about this before, but that's one of the things that they will tell you when you are doing your training for cruise ship is that listen, people are going to go overboard because they want to, you know, they want to treat themselves to one last nice thing and then this is a nice place to just go overboard. And obviously that's not a fun fact,

but it's a fact. So and well, and that's something we haven't talked about, which is the chances of being rescued once you go overboard are really so you have to land. I mean, it's how how far do you think it is ht above the water? Well, there's that you gotta you gotta land. You gotta land perfectly to not break something orno yourself. But you also have to land far enough away from the ship that you don't get sucked under it. Well, that's what that was gonna say.

And this is what I think happened to Rebecca is she probably got sucked into the screws and chopped up a bit, you know, and that put a lot of blood into the water, which attracted the sharks who came over and sort of tidied things up. So not surprising they've never found a body. Yeah, let's just take sharks out of this. Let's just say that she went into the water and she drowned. She's gonna go under. I mean,

even if the sharks don't get her, you know. Ever, Yeah, the body isn't going to just be floating on top indefinitely for somebody to find it. Not the way drownings work. Well, even if it did, it could be easy to overlook. But I really think that she got sucked into the screws, chopped up, and then eat my sharks. That's his theory. It's shark week. Yeah. My theory is that she Yeah, she went off the ship and I don't know what

happened to her after that, but she's not alive. It's hard to imagine her going off the bow and not going into the screws. I agree with that, No, I absolutely agree with that, But I just don't want to think about it. Yeah, that's true. It's pretty that's pretty awful. So I guess whoa I was just in my theory is that she she peeved off Cinderella, who of course has the fairy Godmother in her back pocket, and that that carriage showed up and they shoved her in, and

then the pumpkin became a pumpkin. I'm still going with Mickey because if you see any pictures of a flirtatious he's he's a womanizer. Oh yeah, well, but I don't know if you've noticed, this have been one of the main pictures you see of Rebecca. She's holding this cat. And you know, suppose Mickey saw that picture, well, and he wants to avenge all those relatives who I'm killed by cats, you know? And so yeah, So in a serious closing note, sorry, okay, I just I don't think

that d c L is doing anything. I mean, I think they're withholding a lot of evidence, but I don't think they're lying. I don't think that they should be holding that information. But I agree that they're probably doing it for very selfish reasons. Well I don't even know if that I and I just I think it's totally reasonable to assume that everything else they have is totally unusable. And that's that's what I'm thinking. I think if they had any smoking guns, they'd probably be sure only to

clear their name. Yeah, I mean yeah, I say say, obviously Disney themselves, as shareholders and board of directors of Disney, didn't commit any murders. Maybe an employee you did it, in which case, well, if they had evidence, they probably would turn it over. Yeah they would. I mean, if you knew about a murderer, would you would you just would you just keep it quiet, knowing the murder is going to go out and kill somebody else, maybe even you or somebody you know, It depends on who it was,

that's true, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, that's why you don't ride The Parents of Caribbean. Yeah yeah, Johnny Depp, Yeah yeah, it does have Johnny Depp. Now, um they in there. If he kills people constantly? Yeah, anything else? I think that's about it. Okay, Well, if you want to see any um of the research that we did, we'll put some links up on our website. That website is thinking Sideways podcast dot com. Uh, you can listen there or you're probably listening to us on like iTunes or Stitcher

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