Thinking Sideways: The death of Morgan Ingram

I've gotta talk about a groovy mystery. This is the mysterious death of Morgan Ingram in December two thousand eleven. And by the way, before we go any further, this was suggested by our listener to Cole Thanks to Cole U. Yeah, fun little mystery. This is actually kind of big on the internet. I don't know if you guys have noticed

it or not. Just little bit. Yeah, I've actually this has been one that's interested me for quite some time actually, but we've been kind of waiting for the five year thing. Morgan was only twenty years old when she died. About the County Corner initially ruled her death to be from natural causes, which was pulmonary dema caused by acute intermittent porphyria. And if you don't know what that means, I don't

know either. Yeah. The reason I didn't really research porphyria what doma by the politary demons when your lungs filled with louis or the sacks around your heart do yeah? Yeah, yeah. And as far as as far as the link between those two, I didn't bother because they revised the cause of death later to suicide by drug overdose. Well, yeah, porforio is really really really rare too. It is, yeah, it is, but it does appear that she was being

treated for it, so yeah, so it's a reasonable conclusion. Well, first, a quick introduction to the Ingram family. Morrigan Ingram our our victim here was twenty years old and she was living with her parents, Stephen Tony, and she had a brother, Ryan, who wasn't living at home at the time. Steven Tony Ingram also had a grandson whose name was Jared. Uh. And the reason I mentioned Jared is he has a

little small part in this from in this mystery. Uh. The Ingrams lived in the three bedroom house on a cul de sac called Coral Drive in Carbondale, Colorado, and Jared was the brothers, Ryan's I believe so no, no, no, yeah, I mean, just to clarify, he was yeah, I mean yeah, she was only twenty. I mean I got so. Anyway, Carbondale, Colorado, they were kind of out in the stix. They were. They were not right into the town. They were out in the country. Rural of states is what I call it,

or a m rural suburb. Yeah, it actually looks if you look at the look at the aerial of it. Their little cul de sac is this little is this little subdivision development out kind of out in the middle of nowhere, and then there's some other houses around it, but everything's really spread out. Yeah, there's fields in the

middle of things. Yeah, I know, it looks like that area there they were Coral Drive is right off Equestrian Avenue, and it looks like they were plans for maybe bigger, bigger developments out there, and that's how they make them usually. It hasn't really, it hasn't really happened yet. I'm sure it will eventually. Yeah. You know, Actually, this mystery is pretty thin, and my script originally was only a page

and a half long. So I went out to the Carbondale, Colorado Chamber of commerce web page, and I cut and pasted everything from there into the script. So dramatic reading of carbon. Yeah. Well, first I start with a new safe way. Oh come on, I'm just kidding. Let's back to Morgan. Uh. Morgan Ingram's family does not accept the Corner's ruling. They believe that Morgan was murdered. The reason they think so is Morgan was stocked by an unknown

person or person's for about four months before her death. Uh. The instance began in August and they continued right up until Morgan's death in December. She died in December two uh. And they include tapping out of bedroom windows at you on the window, throwing small rocks at the window, following on her car at least once, if not twice, and another scary incident. It was early morning, still dark. Morgan had recently gotten a puppy and by the way, I've

seen pictures of the puppy. Super cute puppy, Yeah, very cute. The puppy needed to go outside to do a little business. I'm not sure what. And the family was a little on edge because of all the incidents that had taken place, and Morgan's mother, Tony, had suggested that she needed to let the puppy out after dark. She just stand in the doorway and just let the leash out as far as it could go, and the puppy could do his thing. And how did she describe it? She said, And then

you could just reel the puppy in. Yeah, yeah, and so on the morning, Yeah, on the morning of October it was it was earlier, so it was still dark outside. Morgan was standing in the doorway doing that. She glanced to the left and she saw a man dressed entirely in black standing in their neighbor's yard, just past the low fence, about three ft tall. And needs to say, she did reel the puppy and probably leaving a trail

of urine. Well not probably still yeah, I've read that report and um Tony says that he was still urinating poor puppy. I don't know what that's like, being drug along with you know, I don't want to find out. She got herself inside the house and the puppy and

the puppy, Yeah, but that was that was scary. That would I mean, that would scare me, I would imagine, Yeah, even if I wasn't super super on edge I think if I looked up and saw somebody staring at me in all dark while it was dark out in black and yeah, I would I would scare me. I would just pull up my jammie and open fire. Yeah that's

because you're a man. Okay. Yeah, back on this, back to the stocking incidents began in early August, and after that the Ingram started installing those outdoor lights that had the motion detectors and the ones I'm talking about, and

also cameras with like wildlife cameras that have motion detectors. Uh. And the lights were going off quite often, which indicates either they had intruders on the property or maybe they had the sensitivity set too high on the motion detectors, or they were pointing them at trees, which yeah, that could be best possible to remember. There are lights going off a lot. We had those. We had once, you know, on the garage one lights. I remember that going off a lot when it was like snowing or if it

was raining too hard. They were in Colorado and it was winter when it was raining and then for a bit and then snowy. Yeah, I'll tell you this. There's one thing that's about these things is when you have a neighbor that has one, it's pointed towards your bedroom windows. Worst. Yeah, that's why I know about the one that we had, because it was pointed kind of indirectly at my bedroom window. Yeah, I had one of those years ago. And then, yeah, it was coming on all the time when I was

trying to go to sleep. Eventually the problem got solved itself. Somebody apparently shot it out with the twenty two pellet pistol. Somebody I don't know who, but yeah, somebody they had. They had the lights, and then they also had the cameras. The cameras, Yeah, and their carame was would occasionally catch a little video of somebody in the driveway or the yard, but the video was never good enough to actually identify anybody, so the cameras weren't doing them a lot of good.

There was another interesting instance happened in daylight. Steve an Tony, that's Steve an Toni Ingraham, mom and dad were talking in the fourier of their house and Steve had his back to the front door and Tony was facing the front door, and apparently there were windows on either side of the front door in the house. Yeah, that's kind

of a common design, those pre fab houses. Yeah. Yeah, And she saw a person with a white longsleeve shirt go dashing across their driveway through the windows and and then turn around and went went around the corner and between their house and their neighbor's house to the north, and then she sets up to Steve, and Steve ran to the back of the house where they had these sliding last doors to try to try to see who it was and maybe go out and even catch them.

And whoever it was was gone. So another disturbing incident, incident, and there were all kinds of innocence. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna list the worth of them. I'm not exaggerating. You can find it online. Those are like police reports. So yeah, the local police. Yeah, the the Ingram's kept the local cops kind of busy. They went out there a lot. But there was a pivotal moment. On the

morning of September one, two thousand eleven. Morgan was home alone when she heard somebody working the keypad on the front door and they had they had electronic locks on both the front and the back doors, you know, and you guys, all, I'm sure you know what those are, right, Yeah, yeah, you entered the electronic key, the five or six or eight digit pin and it unlocks. Yeah. Well, once she heard that, she thought it was her mother coming home, because her mother had just left to go on a

run to the bank. But the buttons kept getting pushed and the door wouldn't open, so Morgan realized it might be the stalker. And now I don't want to question Morgan's judgment, but to me, this seems like a great time to grab a baseball bat and go into the front door. But you think or even just walk to the front door and look out the window to see who it is that might have been. Yes, this whole

baseball thing. No, And I'm gonna this may end up being one of those episodes where I have to constantly remind you that, as a small woman, that's actually a very bad idea. But I will continue to remind you of that. I can I totally see though. We just talked about the fact that there's windows by the front door. Yeah, you may as well go up, just go oh, okay, look, oh look it's the neighborhood drunk. He's at the wrong

house again. Or finally, I have a description of what this stalker looks like, because up until now I've been able to only say it's an unidentified person. Yeah, yeah, this doesn't make sense for a lot of reasons. Well, but on the other hand, I'm gonna do this a lot in this episode. Again fair warning. On the other hand, I can see, you know, I remember being younger, and certainly this is maybe in my earlier teenage years than like in my early twenties, but I can remember being

so scared. Sometimes fear just takes hold and you think, I don't want him to know that I'm in here. I don't want anybody to know that I'm in here. I'm just gonna hold up and maybe they'll just go away. If I just ignore it, it'll just go away and it won't be a problem, and then it will be fine. Yeah. Yeah, And that you know this this again, I'm not you know, obviously I wasn't there. As far as I know, Morgan never reported this directly to the police. This came from

her mother, Tony. I think we need to clarify now that none of almost none of this reporting, at least the the initial calls to the police were done by Tony. Yeah, her mother always was one that if the cops showed up, got the cops here, and then eventually they would talk to her. They should also be noted that almost all of the contact with the police was not was neither on the line or the non emergency line. It was through calling people that Tony had contact with in the

police department. It was very rarely a dispatch. Yeah, but she did call dispatch, but communicated a lot via email. Yeah. She communicate a lot via text and call an email with the police. Yeah. So back to our story here. Whoever that was at the front door, he got away unseen. When Tony got back, sheally called the sheriff's department. They sent somebody over. The deputy's name was Chris Yawns. I

think that's how that's pronounced. Chris. If you're listening, you know, let me know if I pronounced it right or not. He noticed a footprint in the dirt under a bathroom window. There's three bathrooms in that house that have windows, of the total four. They've got a lot of bathrooms in that house. Foot house that's pretty decent sized. Yeah, so there were three of them, but I'm not sure which

one it was, but there was a footprint. Later that afternoon, the Ingram's grandson, Jared, who I mentioned earlier, and I'm not sure he's who was a kid apparently, like I'm not sure exactly how old, ten, fifteen, sixteen, I don't know, but he came over to the house. He saw the footprint and he said that it looked to him like it was the soul of an ethnic shoe. And I don't know how he managed to do that, but he's like,

it's not that hard. I mean, some shoes have very distinct Well, maybe he had Etney's himself, you know, that's maybe. Of course, maybe it was his footprint too. I don't know, but uh. Jared was later not long after that, standing out by the street and he noticed a neighbor driving by. The neighbor was Keenan van Ginkel, who lived at the end of the cul de Sac at one to three Coral Drive. There. Yeah, he lived with his girlfriend. He

had moved in with his girlfriend. He wasn't there. I think he moved in in June maybe, and and he was out. He was there for maybe three or four months, No, not really. The house was owned by a guy named Jim. Jim Harris his daughter, Brooke Harris, was Keenan's girlfriend. So Jared hustled over to Keenan's house when he was getting out of his car to ask him if he wanted his lawn mode. But his real modive, he said, was to look at keenan shoes, and he came back and

reported today looked exactly like purple. Etney's why he originally suspected Keenan. I don't know. Maybe he decided to go around and look at everybody in the neighborhood's shoes, you know, until he found him Etney's. Yeah, I I don't know. They the family seem to be convinced. And again, I, as you said, I wasn't there, and I don't want to anybody to think that I'm casting any negative information on the family, But they seem to be grasping for

somebody on their street to be the responsible party. Well, you know, and I can sort of see that because on the one you know, on the one hand, to be inconvenient if you're gonna stock somebody to have to commute out to the sticks where this little subdivision was, so I could see why they might be thinking it's somebody on that little because there's not a lot of

people close by otherwise. But at the same time, with what they don't understand about stalkers is that stalkers are willing to go to all kinds of inconvenience to obsessively go after somebody. So I could totally picture somebody driving out there all the time, you know, parking a little ways away and hiking in and then just then doing this thing and then then leaving again. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's the that's a very common characteristic, is just taking

things to a level that nobody would expect. Yeah, the deal. On the other other hand, you know, these incidences vaguely

correspond with when Keenan moved in. And again, you know, since all this information comes from the parents, we don't know if Morgan maybe had had some because she had been friends with Keenan's or at least casual acquaintances with Keenan's girlfriend, And so there's no there's no real sense of if the family is trying to kind of protect a past that Morgan said, yeah, I had to run in or two with this guy that made them suspect

him more. I don't think that's something that the mom Tony would have mentioned because she does try to mean, she really does. She makes sure that everybody knows that Morgan is like perfect, which I understand the impetus to do. But we also, I don't think we would know if there had been some past with Keenan to make them. I think that he was a good candidate for this stalker. Yeah, just candidate. Yeah, I don't think that there was any past actually, but yeah, she she had known Brook. There

were acquaintances, and that's about it. And they hadn't talked for months, so that's about They didn't seem to be any bad blood between them, Okay, Anyway, I said this was a pivotal moment because this apparently is what got Keenan on the Angram's radar. I'm not totally sure about that, but that this appears to be it. So Tony called Deputy Jaunts later that day and told him that a

neighborhood identified Keenan as a suspect. I guess maybe she didn't want to get Jared involved, so she just said one of the neighbors said that Keenan would would be a likely suspect. It sounds like the rumor mill was working overtime in this call to set. There were a couple of a couple of big time gossips in this little cul de sac. They really were pretty feel like that really polluted a lot of what was going on. Oh yeah, yeah, and like like like her next door

neighbor Rhonda in the House of the North. Apparently, apparently Tony was busy telling telling Ronda about her suspicions. So then Rohnda was spying on Keenan, watching his movements and everybody else. Yeah, so it was no, there was no secret here. Yeah. So two days later, about nine pm, Tony is in her office in a bedroom at the front of the house. It's just right off the front of the front entrance and Morgan, nobody else was home at the time. Somebody tossed a rock against the window.

Must have apparently been a small rock. She keeps talking about rocks. I think I'm thinking more like pebbles, you know. Yeah, but somebody and somebody hit the window of the rocks was the window of the office, Yeah, the office, which was a bed. It's basically a bedroom doubles. Doubles is an office. And is that the room that um Morgan

had been sleeping in? Uh no, No, she was according to according to her mother, I've never heard, actually officially from Morgan that she was sleeping their parents their parents master bedroom closet. Okay, but that's where she was sleeping. I thought there was I thought I remembered something about an office, but I could be totally wrong. Well, there was one incident where she was she came home and

she was taking a shower in her mother's office. Yeah, there's a bathroom in there, and it might be apparently Morgan did not maintain her own bathroom, was in her bedroom in tip top shape. Yeah yeah, and so maybe the bathtub was just cleaner in the mom's office bathroom, and so she decided to go use that one instead. Yeah, that's about But she never slept in the office, she accorded to her mother. She slept in the master bedroom closet for a while. Back to the rock throwing incident,

Tony calls the sheriff's office. They sent a new deputies over. And by the way, I want to say to to anybody, any of you in the Sheriff's office that all listening, pakudos to you guys. You really you really went out there a lot. Yeah did your job they did? Yeah, they did. Absolutely. There was no oh, come over later. They wouldn't took care of it, check it out. No, I mean there were there were times when they did it. Actually they got a report of an incident. You know.

There was one time that they came in from two different directions, you know, they came in from the outside and everything, just in an attempt to catch this mysterious perpetrated Yeah. Uh and uh. And then they searched the house like two doors down, you know, and they searched it more than once. Actually, the lights were on at one two three Coral Drive, which is where Keenan lives. So the deputies went over there to see if anybody

had seen anything. Brooke Harris and that Keena's girlfriend answers the door. Her dad was not home, but she was asked if she had seen any suspicious activity. She said she hadn't. Um. She also said Keenan was in the house, but that he was asleep. They asked if she would wake him up, and she didn't want to because apparently he needed to sleep because he had to get up at like and then go to work at two am. So, yeah, I had a job at a grocery store to shift

was generally two am to ten am. Yeah, working your grocery stores are can be brutal on you mean, just because of the shot the hours that are required. Yeah, working working that graveyard shift is just tough no matter what. After the deputy has left, the most activated lights at the end of his house went on at least seven times that night, which is according to a diary that Tony kep and she wrote, quote we assumed the per

was angry about almost getting caught unquote. So I want to point something out or make a comment on something, which is I have looked at the digital versions that she has made of her diaries of the lights on the property, because it was pretty extensive, the locations and times and the lights would go off. She would have it at one, one thirty, two, three, four or five six, install an app on her phone that tracked every single time the lights went off. She had comments on them.

That was the thing that made me think that part of this is she was waking up every time the freaking light was going on, which means that she wasn't sleeping. Don't make any of them were sleeping, which really well, it has an effect on your your perceptions and your judgment good that it does seem like her judgment was not quite right. It's gat least questionable. Yeah, there's some

questionable judgment here. Yeah. Uh. Keenan was the family's prime suspect, of course, but their suspicions were amplified when Morgan was followed one night in her car when she was driving home, and she slowed down to try to get the car to pass her, but it didn't pass her. And then a third car pulls up behind that car, and uh. In the illumination of the headlights of the third car, Morgan's could see the outline of a driver, which appeared to be a male of about Keenan's height and build.

And then she turned down Highway one hundred, which leads to equestrian Way. Yeah, she turned right on the equestrian way and the car went on on Highway one hundred and she looked back and she noticed it was a small green car, which is like the car that Keenan drove. So who more suspicions the the next the next suspicious thing that happened. Uh, that's in the October twenty nine entry into her diary. And this stuff is all available online.

By the way, you can see all this stuff. Tony wrote that somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody. And I don't know if you guy saw this not, but it was quite a long chain of you know, yeah, yeah it is. But apparently Keenan had told someone that he had a girlfriend in Carbondale named Morgan, and he was not living at one two three. Yeah, he was no longer living in He had broken up. He and broken broken up at this point exactly, and

he moved out. Yeah. So obviously that's kind of a stock right thing to say. I've got a girlfriend named Morgan and she lives in Carbondale, and there's only one Morgan, of course in Carbondale, and Carbondale is not a really big town. Yeah, but Morgan is also not the most unique name, not entirely now, actually it's it's it isn't

totally unique. There was another Morgan in Carbondale. And I want to say at this point that, just in case you get bored and turn off our podcast and listen to the rest of it, I really need to tell you that the case against Keenan was never very strong,

and there wasn't need another Morgan. In Carbondale, and she actually was Keenan's girlfriend at the time, and the police actually checked this out and they got they got a ton of information from him that corroborated that it would have been nearly impossible for him to have been the responsible party. Well, there was, there was some information there, Yeah, there was. There were just times when incidents happened when he was either at work or he was out of state. Yeah,

and so so that's presumably out of state. Well yeah, this whole his family could allied and stuff like that. But because a short story is he is not as stalker he as everybody has been left to believe it by this point. Yeah, I mean, there's there's various schools have thought on that. Of course, Tony Ingram believes he's a serial killer, and we'll talk more about that later. But yeah, she thinks that he's a serial killer. Other

people think that he's innocent. Does she really think he's a serious serial killer in training I believe serial killer in the making words, yes, yeah, thank you. I knew that it was something along the lines of he's currently using his training wheels. Yeah, yeah, he is, but he's he said that, he said, he said that at least one police or she did. She said that to at least one police officer. She also to that same police officer put it in an email. Is that Glassmyer? Yeah,

Detective glass Meyer. Another another intriguing incident November two, there were footprints in the snow which apparently came from Lacole to Sack and circled their house and then left again, And so that creeped them out understandably. Yeah, although you know, I mean, there's there's might be reasons why somebody came through their yard too, but you know, chasing a dog, kids playing, yeah, I mean, who knows all the way circling a house though, I don't know. Yeah, have you

ever seen seven and eight year old kids just run? Yeah? But presumably hell mell, But presumably you look at the footprints of a seven or eight year old and think, oh kids, You don't think wow, creepy stalker, dude. I remember looking at the map that they drew of that

that incident they had. They had mapped out the path that this person took, and it started on the street if I remember right, and then looped around clockwise around their house, yeah, and then came back to almost the same spot, almost like somebody was not necessarily casing the joint. But there were the footsteps weren't in a perfect arc or a circle around him. There's like another side meander here.

So it makes me think that somebody was running after something or chasing something, necessarily checking out the house or casing it. That that's possible too. And I and from the pattern that they drew, I'm not even too I'm not even sure that it was one set of footprints. Yeah, yeah, I really can't tell, and I'm sure it probably wasn't actually, but you know people go out walking in the snow. Is this a Winnie the Pooh thing? Yeah, you know,

there's there's one person and I'm following his tracks. Now there's two piglets. Now there's four pooh because they're following their own tracks. Oh, I got you. Neither of you remember this. It's been so long since I read one of the Pooh I don't remember anything. So disappointed. I am so going to get to the reference kudos this week. Yeah, yeah, when I share all of our fans are really in

the winning. Let's let's go back a little bit in time and on September, Detective Glassmyer, Robert Glassmire of the Garfield County Sheriff's Office. Who is he. He's the one who's been kind of the lead investigator. Yeah, yeah, he did. He's of the report fame most of it. Yeah, there was some of some other stuff written other reports written

by other officers, but he's written yeah. Uh. He installed two wildlife cameras on the north side of that the Ingram's house, and that's the Morgan's bedroom was in the northwest corner of the house, and the north side would be the side yard, so that is the obvious places for the stalker to hang out and throw a rock setter window. Right at this time, Tony was calling an emailing Glassmier repeatedly saying that lights were coming on, somebody

was scratching at Morgan's windows and et cetera. And uh. October second, Detective Glassmyer changed the memory cards and reviewed but was on the ones that have been in the camera. Found no images of anything. But of course maybe Keenan or whoever the purp was was just really clever and switched the memory cars and the cameras. I also think, I mean, I've seen trail cams that take pictures of

nothing or just you know, empty trails. So it's you know, the stalk was broken, and that's what triggers for the stalker is moving fast enough that you know the camera doesn't turn on. I don't know, Yeah, I don't know. I just I mean he actually went back and he wants to service those things pretty regularly, and he never he never found a single useful image on them. Ever,

I wanted this one wildy stalker. And then on the two or seventh, detective glass Binder and another detective walked onto the property, which means they did not parked their cop car out in front of the property on the street. Yeah, that would have. They parked elsewhere, like I'm not sure exactly where. And they walked onto the property through the back, over a berm and hidden the bushes. Uh. Staked it out from eleven pm tolve am and saw nothing. What

doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't a stocker. It just mean that needs a stockard. They weren't there on a night. Yeah, I didn't happen to show up. What they did notice is at the backyard, motion activated light turn on and off two or three times, and uh, and there was nothing going on. It just came on on its own, or maybe because of a tree movie or something like that. I just watched the episode of Sherlock the Hound of Basketball Bills episode of the New Sherlock UM and that

happens in that too. The light just goes on and off. But the guy's so paranoid that you know, of course, he's like freaked out and screaming and has a gun. And I mean, you know, I really go on and off. Or it was an invisible hound. Maybe the stalker has an invisibility cloak. It could be. In fact, he probably does. We talk about that next week. I didn't. I didn't need to watch Sherlock. I haven't seen that. I haven't. I'll give it to you. He's Devin Jur only sources

of the television show. Okay, that's it, then I'll take it anyway. That night, after they left, at two thirty am, Glassmary got a text from Tony saying the backyard light was turning on and off, and Glassmar explained that he's seen it going on and off himself and that it was it was probably nothing. Probably needed to calibrate your light. Time goes on. Tony kept reporting incident and incidents, and

Glassmarre kept checking his wildlife camps. Never got images of anything, as I said, and the Engram has got a few murky images on their cameras, but never so they set up cameras too. Yeah, they had where those trail cams or were they cameras that they were streaming, were like wildlife camps, but apparently they took they took video instead of instead of snaps. It's yeah, it was. It sounded like it was a video camera that obviously was motion activated.

It wasn't a high grade one, but they were like low grade surveillance cameras. Because I do remember reading her often saying I was staying up all night watching the cameras. So it made me think, yeah, they had a fee and there they were bears. Yeah, okay, so they've got some pictures. So yeah, they've got several cameras all around the house. And then there's two sheriff's cameras there, so

that that place was just totally covered. Well, and on the on those that that front camera that's where the infamous stalker photo comes from, there's this they capture this picture. Apparently the police had just been there. Well, it's a series of pictures, is it that they always post. It's like three in succession, and the two of them are of the cops. Right, okay, now cops ar the cops leaving, and then this other and then this other. This person

is in their driveway and is turning their heads. So it's it's not that great of an image because it's all blurred out, and Tony and Steve are saying that you can see that the tail lights of the police car in that that image, So that's how soon this person comes on their property. It's like he was hiding right nearby. And yeah, because that's that's one of the things that they talk about, is this person was he's there and was fooling the cops and was getting their

jollies off of just messing with everybody. Um, but their cameras obviously weren't that great. And I really, I mean again, with a lot of things, and I'm the jerk who does this. I questioned a lot of the stuff that is presented as proof because it seems a little soft to me. But but that's one of the ones that you see on the internet a lot is that this is this is the cops arriving and leaving, and then there's the stalker in the footage, which is one of

the only images of a person that we have. Yeah, there's not much out there in terms of the imagery for considering how many cameras were on the property. He was a clever little fiend. If yeah, if indeed he exists, well there's that. Yeah. And see about this time, Keenan began getting threats on Facebook. That would be in November from a guy named Danny Rodan, who was either Morgan's boyfriend at the time or trying to be her boyfriend.

Also in November. This was on the sixteenth, Keenan voluntarily came into the Sheriff's office because apparently his dad contacted the Sheriff's His dad's name is Wade, and he had heard these all these stories about how Keena was being

accused of being a stock had reached him. And well also the Sheriff's actually went by where Keenan worked to ask questions about him and try to find out, you know, if he worked there and when, what his ships were, everything and everything like that, trying to eliminate him were profuly was a suspect and so and Wade also apparently worked at the same place, so they you know, he was obviously concerned wanted to know what this was about. So Wade and Keenan went in for an interview in

the sixteenth Keenan said he didn't know Morgan. When he was told about the various footprints that they had found in the in the dirt and the snow, he offered to turn over a pair of his shoes for comparison. Uh. He also volunteered to take a polygraph tests. Cooperative this can be oh yeah, yeah, he was very cooperative. He didn't lawyer upper anything like that. Lastmyer also wanted to see Keenan's work records as a way to maybe eliminate him as a suspect, and Keenan's signed a consent for

him available online. Yeah, and they collected all of a huge ton of his time cards. Yeah, they're out there and they're out there to look at. So. Yeah. They also had another another image video somebody walking out their driveway, and I had just not the same one that you were talking about, a different one. Ok. Yeah, somebody actually like like pulled into their driveway, got out, walked up to the house from turn and walked away. Again. They

thought that was suspicious. But again they couldn't see they couldn't see who who it was, crappy cameras they had. So Glasmyer made reference to that video when he was when he was talking to Keenan, tried to raddle his cage a little bit and said he sent the video to the cb I, which is the Colorado Bureau of Investigation for enhancement, even though the cb I, I I think, had already told him that there was no way they could enhance it. You can't enhance that stuff. You can't

just zoom it enhanced. No. That's the whole thing is that everybody seems to believe that you can just say a computer enhanced, you know, and and the computer can extract information that doesn't exist it just as you I know, I know, and but but you know, of course a lot of people don't understand this. They watched this crap in the movies on TV where they just pour more

pixels onto the screen and it it cleans it up. Yeah, and so and so Keenan was like, oh, well, you're still not going to find my face in there, basically what he said, and so what so he was either either totally in a centator or he was a sociopath. You guys decide, we'll present the information. Yeah, you'll, you'll figure it out. And at this point the terror continued on for two more weeks. Um then on the evening of Thursday, December one, Wherego was out for a while

with Danny Roden. He's the guy that was sending the Facebook friend maybe maybe boyfriend maybe not. Yeah, I read the you guys probably read the face book exchange, right, Yeah, I stopped. I mean I read the first two pages of it. Yeah, I read some of it, and then I just gave up on it. Yeah, I read the whole thing that. Yeah, it's it's, you know, typical Internet stuff, arguing dudes in the early twenties arguing over a girl kicking rich Man. Yeah, totally, yeah, totally, yeah, try it. Yeah,

my botter find you before the cops. Yeah, I mean yeah, yeah, obviously we read more than we want to admit. Yeah. He parted ways with her, and he reported later that she was actually in a good mood when when they parted ways. But something must have happened between then and when she got home at nine pm, because her parents said that she was in a foul mood for some reason. But we're going to also taken Tony's car without permission.

And she also had not responded to any of the text messages that her parents sent to her, so Tony was angry with her for that. And so I remember being and you know, going to see my boyfriend when I was nine in twenty and being in a good mood when I was with him, and then I left and I was like, I go home now and deal

with my parents. My parents are awesome for the record, as an older person now, but you know, you just kind of getting that like, oh God, or maybe it's even like oh God, I gotta go back to that house.

And Morgan had been a student and she had essentially just dropped her studies at that point, whether it was from what was going on at home or just a shift in her interests, Like it's it's one of those things where you go home and it's I have all that crap to do and I just don't want to be here, and mom and down they're gonna harp on me for not getting my stuff done because I'm a

college kid living at home. Yeah, I know, it might it might be that she was twenty years old, still living at home, and she just didn't really enjoy it. You know, I wouldn't. Yeah, no, most of us don't or wouldn't. But well, anyway, so they're both they're both in add moods. Tony is angry. They had an argument but which culminated with Morgan calling Tony a bad word. Yeah, there you go, also means female dog. Yeah, there you go. Apparently that was unusual from Oregon. Then she went to

her bedroom and shut the door. Tony knocked on the door, said she wanted to talk, and Morgan told her to go away, and then Steve, her dad, went in and they had a little talk for about fifteen minutes, which apparently ended on a good note, which is good because they would never talk again. Yea, yeah, because Morgan. Morgan was found dead in her bed the next morning, and she had her clothes on. She had taken her shoes off,

but otherwise was fully clothed. And uh. An autopsy and lab tests revealed extremely high levels of ab a trip to lean in her system, which is a drug for the treatment of anxiety that I don't know if I mentioned this before, and several drug yeah, yeah, and uh but no pills were found in your stomach. Also, her driver's license was missing from her purse, and some of her jewelry was gone. As I said earlier, Eventually the coroner ruled the death suicide by drug overdose. But Tony

Ingram's theory in the case, it's a little different. Let's see, she and her husband believe that Morgan was murdered by fire stockers. By the time of Morgan's death, they suspected that Brooke Harris was also a part of the stock and conspiracy. Originally they thought it was just Keenan, but

they later came to believe it was Brooke also. And they believed that Brooke and or Keen and concealed themselves in their backyard and the bushes are somewhere and observes them keying the code into the back door and then

knowing the code. On late late December one or in the week early hours of December two, they gained access to that back door, went into Morgan's bedroom and subdued her and administered a fatal dose of liquid and a trip to Lene, which you can get online with even without a prescription, either through injection or by forcing Morgan to drink it. That I mentioned that amate trip to is a date rape drug. I don't think that's true.

Well it is according to Tony Ingram. Yeah. Uh so, when Morgan was sufficiently out of it, Keenan raped her, and then apparently Keenan and Brooke put Morgan's pants back on her and left the same way they came in, of course, stopping to grab her driver's license and her jewelry it's trophies. Yeah, and uh so, our that's our mystery here is did she commit suicide? And that's Morgan that is was this an accidental overdose? Or was she murdered? Well,

there's a few theories. The first theory, well, I call hell, yeah, she was murdered. Um. The the Ingram's actually seemed to originally have had theory that she was like murdered by murdered by fright. Uh and then they scared to death? Yeah apparently or or she or she did commit suicide it was because she was just living in so much terror. Well that is not so upsurd to me, but no can talk about that in a little bit. I can understand why they would feel that way. Yeah, I feel

that way. But the other one is that the stocker. So that's that that murdered. That thing is that stock had been a less such a living hell. She she killed herself, which means that her stockers were the killers. Uh and the ignorance have there been very critical law enforcement for not investigating the crime. There's a long quote which I won't quote you here, but go to their web page. It's called Morgan Ingram dot com and they will list all of their other agrievances. But here's here's

just an opposite of it. There's been no investigation UM into her death, nor the stocking. Jewelry was stolen from her room, her bottom bed sheet, pajamas, driver's lasses, and more were taken that she was killed, but no investigation. A year after her death, we would learn that a date raped cocktail was put into her stomach after she was dead, but still no investigation. Two years after her death, we learned that her body showed evidence of being assaulted, redressed,

and posed after she was dead. Still no investigation. So this is this is the family. This is um You know me paraphrasing what the family said on their website, which is strange because when you read the correspondence from the family to the cops. They are so thankful for everything that the police are doing for them, because the police were going to some pretty big lengths to try to help these people, and then suddenly they turned around and they are ultra critical of their complete her lack

of motivation to do anything the whole time. Yeah, I know, I think the police, if there have been any evidence, you know, I think that they would have been happy to follow up on it. Yeah, I'm sure of it. Yeah. So the problems with this murder theory is there's no physical evidence. Her bedroom was in disarray. There's clothes and stuff strewn everywhere, which could be evidence of a struggle, except her bathroom was the same way she had been using one of the other bedrooms in the house. It

was also in total disarray. One of the police, um, what do they call it their their summations after the fact, I can't think of the phrase he was saying that he actually used the term in the port that is, how how chaotic that room was. I don't know. I think men often think that women are like very clean turns out when we're in our early twenties and and our teenage years. No, you're like a fifteen year old boy. It's worse because there's makeup and there's like twenty times

more clothes, and it's just awful. I mean, I was a slob. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not going to make any judgments about her because I'm not the tip I'm not the tidiest housekeeper myself. But the sheer amount of stuff that everybody reported being strewn about, oh yeah, they said it was just a mess. Yeah, but not not likely to be from a struggle. Uh. There were also no marks in her body, no signs, you know, no, I mean, obviously the corner is going to look at

her over very carefully. Yeah, because she's twenty years old and she's dead. I mean, so you're definitely gonna look for any signs of violence, her foul play, and she was examined carefully. There were no puncture marks, no bruises, no scratches, nothing, absolutely nothing, no outward signs of anything. Yeah, obviously no signs of rape. Obviously that would be pretty obvious if that had happened, right, I'm not going to say yes to that. Yeah. I don't think that's always

as obvious as one might be led to believe. But I also think that sometimes the corner has to be looking for that. So I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be on the bandwagon. I don't think she was raped. I'm just to that. Yeah, it's going to be obvious statement. Yeah, I mean, I guess there are ways you could have There are ways you could have concealed it. Who knows. It's also I think a lot of people underestimate how hard it is to redress a sleeping, unconscious body, dead weight. Yeah,

it's hard. It's hard enough to dress a live person's trying to help you. How many times you've tried to dress a dead body? I have not ever, but I do have a lot of experience dressing live bodies who are trying to help you, and it's not easy. But yeah, they're just like, no, yeah, sixteen pounds or how much your toddler ways I don't know obviously, but probably thirty. But the point is, yeah, I would not be hard

to I mean it would. I think you. I think that the police would be able to say, Okay, there's something off about this, particularly if it was you know, twenty year old girl in two thousand eleven. Jeans are tight, absolutely, and I agree Morgan did have a prescription for amateripolians, I think, I said, but in a bottle was found in your room. It had twelve tablets in it. You know what percentage of the pills that was? Like? Was

that a small amount of the total prescription? I'm assuming this prescription was that, you know what, thirty pills, probably, I mean, but I could have been for a larger amount. I don't know, I really now. Typically when I get a prescription, that's usually thirty pills. It's an ongoing Sometimes

I'll get fifty. Yeah, I was gonna something I've been on for a long time, so I looked up amateurplane and it really depends on the frequency of the dosage, and then that of course dictates the strength of the dosage. Once a day is going to be probably stronger pill than somebody who has to take three times a day, and that's going to influence how many pills you get and for how long you're gonna be taking them. I mean, again, it's an ongoing thing. You figure, Okay, let's just presume

three a day. Thirty something sounds right, But I don't know if you're probably gonna get ninety at a time, and you don't want to be refilling it everything. Well, that's the thing. I don't know. I mean, she had just recently been put on the medication. It wasn't as if it was something that she had been taking for years. And then, yeah, it's probably a smaller That's why I'm

saying it was probably a smaller amount. But I think it was twenty and I don't think their parents reported that she didn't actually like taking it and she didn't take it if she didn't have to, which is funny because that conflicts with some other things that I read in regards to the dosages that she was self administering for some of her medication for for like purposes. But okay,

but let's be fair. Just because she was self administering other doses of other medications doesn't mean that she would have done the same with this, because the way that different medications affect you, if this one is causing her to have some no asia or disassociate or whatever, she's going to be less likely to want to take this than other ones that are affecting her in a positive That is true if she's experiencing that, but it also doesn't mean that she couldn't have been upping her dose

on her for what I was talking about. For though, the things that she was taking is she was on Gaba penton uh Gaba penton, which is um it's an epilepsy or a seizure medication, which I guess she had had for a long time. The medication, not seizures. Correct the medication, and Steve apparently was the one who would

give it to her. Accept that. At one point after her death, he had reported to one of the police officers that I, let's just say she was supposed to be taking one every twelve hours or something, she was taking instead of one at a time, she tripled the dose and she was taking three of them at a time and at the same interval or she's a normal interval. She had just decided for whatever reason, she was upping

her dosage. Now I don't know what the reason or cause of any of that is and what the implications are. I mean, medication overdoses are bad and they mix weird, but it's just when she starts upping, upping one makes me wonder if she's upping them all maybe, I um, and I don't know what the side effects of that is there are because maybe maybe that I've heard reports that she was using some meds for recreational use um and that's not on herlither yeah, and so no, it's not.

And she also had some other recreational drugs she was taking. I just I'm sorry. I just looked up gab pentum and it treats nerve pain, so it is an anti convulsant. So, but it also treats nerve pain, which means that dolls pain, which means it's a pain killer, which is probably why her father was the one who was trying to administer it to her. But also if you took a couple of those, I can imagine that that would um, that

would zown you out a little bit. Yeah, it might be something that's I mean, there are certain medications that it's like there's no recreational validity to that drug at all, and then there are others that do have those side

effects or those effects. But damn it, again, I feel like the jerk here because that immediately makes me wonder, what are her parents not telling us, Like again, they make her just sound like she's this perfect angel, and yet there's these signs of possibly larger and other things going on that we're not being told about. So do we want to put a pin in this and finish

them and then we'll talk about other stuff. So there were no pills of the Yeah, there were no pills in your stomach in the autopsy, you know, they looked at the contents of her stomach obviously, and they didn't see any pills in there. Although there's and and the parents are big on this, they're they're they're like, wow, she had these pills in her bedroom that she could have taken commit suicide. But no pills were found in

your stomach, So that's suspicious. But on the other hand, her stalkers or stalker could have gotten some of this liquid am trip to Leane and then somehow introduced it into her body, either to a hypodermic or by forcing or to swallow it and etcetera, etcetera. So that proves in their mind that it was probably murder. Did you see the quantity what's that? Did you see the quantity that's listed from the medical examiner of how much she had in her Oh yeah, it was. It was a

very high level. And the mill leaters, Oh yeah, no, that was it was really high. And they eventually revisited the case a little bit. They actually because they looked at the contents of her stomach. Well, I think the pills just dissolved and so, but but they they actually had the contents of her stomach in storage, and so they got it back out, sent into a lab, looked at it, and what they found in there was basically in her the equivalent of about eighteen tablets of am

in her stomach. In your stomach, she's just not in pillform. Yeah, because it dissolved, because you've got all this acid. And I don't know if you noticed just a lot of pills that some of the pills that I take, I put them on my tongue and the immediately start. I was just I was just looking up the dissolved times and someone and I this is literally a cursory Google search,

So please don't, you know, crucify me for this. But somebody was saying that those gelatine tabs that you fill up, you know, the little capsules, are like an hour max to dissolve. So she would have had to have been alive for an hour or at least her Yeah, she couldn't would have been It doesn't go neutral with YEA believe it or not. Yeah, so it's reasonable to assume that in sometime in the hours that you know, transpired between taking pills and they would have totally dissolved. Yeah, yeah,

I think. So that's the end of the murder theory. It's not really Yeah, and oh yeah, there's a dog in the house. Yeah, we're talking about the puppy. Yeah. Cute, Yeah, super cute puppy. The dog would have barked, don't you think. Yeah, to a major struggle. Yeah, a major struggle. And Steve and Tony seemed to not be sleeping well as is. You know, lights were waking them up. I can only imagine what a struggle would Yeah, you would think, huh. Yeah.

This is another interesting thing about this is you think they would have bumped their security a bit, like maybe an alarmed or an actual physical key. Yeah for the door, no more keypad. Yeah I'm leaving that alone. Yeah. Or if nothing else, you you put a pile of you stack up a pile of empty beer cans by all the doors, you know. Yeah, every night, honey, I can't go up bed. I haven't armed the security system. Yeah. Okay,

so next there we've kind of been talking around, right, Yeah, suicide. Um, did I imagine that amateripoline is used to treat I think I did depression and anxiety. Yeah. Yeah. Her parents did report that she had been a little down before her death, and she'd lost interest in some of her user activities. She was she was playing the piano, she was into dancing and stuff. She was taking classes to be a yoga instructor. Yeah, I mean, she done a

whole bunch of art courses. Of course. I said she preferred not to take the a trip line, but she did have it handy, and it certainly would be a handy way to kill yourself if you chose to. Again, I talked about the context of her stomach, which was the equivalent of about eighteen milliground pills that they have a triple line, which if she had a bottle that had a thirty eighteen equals twelve, which is how many

there were exactly. So, although that would mean that she didn't ever take any of them before this one night, well yeah, so she wouldn't have known if she didn't like to take it. Yeah, Now, well, she would have been refilled before. I mean, it's like she might have. But you know, it may well be that it was like ninety pills. I mean, I don't know how many pills were in that thing. You know, I have no idea. I'm not saying the eighteen minus thirty really actually proves anything.

Joe was just made up math to prove a point that he doesn't know works. Math is overrated, actually don't work. I think actually that is maths is just making up things to prove a point and then coming back later and saying, oh, no, you're right right. So, I mean, I think it's not unreasonable to say that she killed herself intentionally or otherwise, that it was suicide. Yeah, I mean,

I can't believe this accidental overdose. I was gonna what I was gonna say is that I'm sorry, but if I grab a handful of pills and wash them down, I'm probably pretty sure that there's going to be negative consequences to that. Nobody takes some by accident. I mean, I knew. I knew kids who took aspirin, a boatload of aspirin because they thought it was going to have a negative effect on them. People know lots of pills

you was a bad thing. Yeah, that's one of the first things when when I was a little kid growing up, My mother remem mother told me is that, hey, you can't be swallowing all this stuff. If you want to take one, take one, but don't take a bunch of them, because yeah, when I was a kid, by the way, they didn't have child proof caps. They just relied on you your parents smacking your cross. Yeah. Yeah, I mean,

I agree, especially if it's eighteen pills um. But you know, she was on a lot of other stuff, and she didn't really like to take the pills. And I don't necessarily know if they were all taken in one fell swoop or it was. You know, she took a couple and didn't feel anything. She was stressed out, she was anxious, she was like really really paranoid. So she popped a couple and waited and they didn't they didn't seem to

be working, and popped a couple more. And you know, maybe and she was on medical marijuana as well, and you know, maybe she just kept forgetting that she'd already taken it. Well, I don't think forgetting, but I think maybe you're you're just kind of you're not really paying

atten and so on. The accidental suicide camp, though, is that Joe is using the math of these being pills, But I was looking at stuff that was saying that it could be up to a hundred or a hundred and fifty to two hundred milligrams, So that really would have been seven pills. So that wouldn't have been as many pills as we've we've been making it out to be. I just I realized I looked at my notes, it's like, oh, oh, hell, they can be large dosages at times. How many how

many milligrams did they say we're in? So when I looked at the Corners information or the Emmy's info, it was listed in milli leaders because it was in a liquid form at that point, which isn't always Miller leaders and milligrams aren't always a one to one ratio when it comes to medication, and the effects of one milli leader is not always the same. But it was seventy hundred million leaders. It's like, and I don't know if that's including all the fluids or what might have had

to have been. It was like three times a lethal dose or something like that. It was a big number. It was. It was high, and frankly, if they're measuring liquid, I don't know that you can necessarily say, and this

portion is how much. Well, I think the lab might be able to though, because it was on a lab report that was spitting out that was saying this negative, this, negative, this, and it's just like it was a sheet of everything negative until we got to this medication and then it said positive, and then it had a unit number next to it. So that's why maybe there presuming a m the equivalent of how much would have been present in her entire system. I don't know a lab tech and

I apologize I probably butchered that, but that's my guests. Yeah, you know, I'm not sure how they infer these things, but I'm sure, I'm sure it's easy to do if you got the right equipment and you know what you're doing, and you know whether she took eighteen milligram pills or nine fifty milligram pills. I mean, I don't know, but yeah, I don't. I didn't even know what what strengths amateripoline actually comes in, and but she took the equivalent of

there's that's pretty much it. Another clue regarding the suicide theory is another detective from the Sheriff's office grabbed Morgan's diary and took a look at it, and the entries were undated, so it's not certain when this was written or if it was written on the date of death. But the last sentence in the diary is quote, I've completely lost my cool unquote, so not exactly suicidal, but not really positive and upbeat either. Um, I don't know.

I don't know if that means anything or not. There are reports of her having and and the stocking, I understand is why everybody's gonna point to this when I say it. But behavioral changes on her part. She she had, really she changed and yeah, I get it. You're being stalked that free shoo out. You're going to change your path, tarns in your interests in all of that. If indeed the stocking is real, what we haven't talked about is that she may have been experiencing some kind of psychosis,

whether from the medication or just naturally occurring. That may have been what's going on, And it's just hearing things. What she hears, those tap tap taps on the windows. Yes, I mean we talked about she's doing medical marijuana, and there's hind no A fair number of people who smoke pot and they get super paranoid, so that that's a

very possible thing. She could have been having some kind of psychosis and the medication was actually causing it, because there are side effects, like sort of hallucinatory side effects that could be completely the culprit. On the other hand, one of the things, I mean, when you look at the medications she was taking and the symptoms she had a aparently been describing, it's not unlikely that she was

suffering from panic attacks. And you know, one of the things psychosis does sometimes go with, It doesn't always go with, but sometimes goes with panic attacks, and that can include auditory hallucinations, it can include delusions, it can include paranoia, It includes a lot of different mental factors as well as that you know, heart racing that she was describing that we've seen she was describing. She was on some

pills for pain that thin. Yeah, and you know, again, to be fair, I was on beta blockers for migraines um but so you can be on those for a lot of different things. But if she was having this chest pain and she was having these panic attacks, and it sounds like the medications she was on were to control that anxiety, and she had been complaining about chest pains a lot in the two weeks prior to her death, and I really can't. I mean, I do think she

had to have been having panic attacks. I've read those reports. I am not an anxiety written person, but I would have been having panic attacks if I were in the situation that she was in, whether real or not. Okay, So suicide is a pretty credible theory, you know, Frankly, it's a lot of intentional or accidental. Our next theory is varying on suicide, which is suicide. And also the

stocking never actually happened. There were reasons to doubt that the actual existence of the stocking to begin with, and the reason there are reasons to doubt Tony Ingram's credibility. She's the one that maintains apparently Morgen Ingram dot com. And there's some things out there that, frankly, I kind of question. This is one of those. This is one of those situations where I always worry when there's basically

a single source for the story. Yeah, if it wasn't for the fact that the police keeps such good records and those were available, yeah, we would have one source for this story. Yeah, and it would be you know, and and originally this story it's not too long ago. I don't remember what it was to and twelve or whatever, and it came to the attention to web sleues and

then um uh, that thread was created. It was a story of this girl who had been stocked and terrorized and it was murdered and found dead, and a lot of people took it really seriously at first, and then eventually people begin to have their doubts about it. Um and but it's apparently even for webs loues, it's pretty freaking huge threat. It's like almost three thousand pages huge. It's enormous. I didn't even try to get through it

because I mean, frankly, getting through webs loues. And this is not to put anybody down to posts there, you know, because there are a good posts out there, But getting through web sluice is you gotta read a whole lot of stuff to find a single nugget of good solid information. I wouldn't put that just against websites. Oh yeah, no,

you're right, it is any forum. Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm trying to actually conceptualized reach, a conceptualization of a forum that can actually find a way to segregate the useful stuff from just, you know, the fluff. I haven't. I haven't figured out a way to do it yet, but I'm really trying to thick hard. We're going to be millionaires. Yeah I know, I know. But where were we anyway? Oh? Yeah? So uh so it really is.

You can see why this could attract a certain sort of attention and then people would be like really super sympathetic. But then when you really know the facts of the case, Well, first off, let's start here. Was Morgan really as terrorized as Tony claimed she was? And it's hard to tell because Morgan herself when the police talked to her, they

didn't she didn't seem that concern. The Detective glass Myers report of October third, two thou eleven says, and I quote Morrigan seems to be more bothered by trying to catch the suspects. Morgan would rather ignore the harassment and continue living her life. Unquote. Well, okay, we haven't actually

said yet. I don't think maybe we did that. The way that Tony heard about the raw hitting Morgan's window as Morgan would text her from her from her bedroom, her mom's bedroom on the other side of their house, right, which was a big house. But I just think, but I think that's an important note as well, is that whether Morgan seemed like she was more bothered by trying to catch the suspects or not, at the very least, she was also providing information to Tony. At least Tony

says she was providing information. I suspect that the detectives actually went and found the text logs and found that she had actually been texting her mom. I'm sure they did. I mean, I don't know why they wouldn't. They were pretty thorough. They were very thorough. So but you know, actually, I gotta tell you, I I read I read the report. I read the report that in Tony's diary. I read that the entries talking about the text But I read

glass Bowers reports especially, and he was pretty thorough. He never once mentioned actually getting their phones and looking at their text messages, and I would think it's possible that he didn't. But I just I do want to mention that as as bothered as Morgan may have seemed about the investigation, she was reporting at least reportedly reporting that stuff was going on, right, it would have been pretty easy for her to just say, mom, no it stopped, No,

it stopped. If she had been serious about just wanting to deal with the harassment for the rest of her life, she would have just said, no, it stopped. It's fine, everything's fine, and people don't do that. But she could have. But I want to I want to take us down a slight side road for a second, which is something we haven't talked about, which is the rocks. Rocks are

being thrown at her window. Pebbles, pebbles, not fifth side rocks. Actually, eventually, at one point they decided somebody must have been using an air soft rifle, and so they did look for this. But where where is the pile of rocks under her window? That's what I want to know. Because the gutters, yea, in the gutter? What? Yeah? Why not on the gutter? Yeah, it bounces off and it's sort of around. Yeah. The thing is it's snowing out because it was winter in

Colorado and there's snow and it is frozen. And if somebody is throwing rocks, okay, yeah, it could have been a piece of ice. I get it. But if they're throwing rocks, there should have been obvious evidence and people should have seen it. And if this family is so thorough of documenting everything, they should have said, oh my god, there's a pebble outside of her window. Take a picture of it, so we have it, and let's get a fingerprinted. And I'm being a little facetious here, but there is

none of that. At the end, at the end of four months of tossing pebbles at at Morgan's window, there certainly should have been a fairly deger sized pile of pebbles under a window. Should have been a small pyramid of gaza there gi. Yeah, if they were using an air soft gun, I mean those those pellets are plastic and they're brightly colored, and there were none of those either, because they did look for the police came by and

did look for us. I know, I'm taking this down the side he But again, if we're going to question did this actually happen, where is this stuff? Snowballs? There was actually snowballs, Yeah, that could be. But even then on the windows, yeah, I know, I mean, I'm assuming my theory is that the stoker was using self dissolving rocks once you can buy online ice cubes. Actually, yeah, it was just ice cubes. Yeah. Well back to back

to Morgan though for a second. Here as I said, Uh, Morgan, I don't think it was as terrorized as Tony says she was. The Deck of Glassmire on October thirtieth, filed another report. He summarized some conversations that he had with Tony Ingram, and here is a quote of what he says. Tony said, quote, I know Morgan is very emotionally distraught and not thinking clearly. She cries when I talk about it and wants to pretend it just isn't happening, unquote.

So it could be that she was in Morgan was in denial, or it could be that Morgan thought her mom was just crazy and she wanted to shut up about stalking. I mean, I don't really know. I also we kind of talked about this a little bit too. It's also possible in my mind that like Morgan was

trying to cover her tracks for sneaking out. Yeah. Maybe, uh, you know, maybe Morgan made some of the stuff up and then maybe it just got out of hand, some kind of attention seeking behavior in the beginning and then oh my god, you put in cameras in. The cops are here, and mom is going insane. She's stocking Keenan now and she literally was. I mean, if anybody was a stoker, it was it was the parents and not not Keenan. Well, I mean, I think, you know, it's

it is possible. She's sneaking out when the weather is nicer out her window and trying to cover her tracks by you know, her mom says, oh, Morgan, did you hear that something was going on with your window last night? And she said, oh, yeah, someone was throwing a rock at it. It's fine, And then her mom goes, what someone's during a rocket your window? You know, she's snuck out once, and it just escalates to this kind of fever pitch of terror. Maybe yeah, yeah, but I don't

I guess I don't really think that's true. But well, you know, there's all kinds of things are possible. Anyway, back to back to the credibility of Tony and her claims. There is Jared the grandson, which is remember he ran and checked Keenan shoes under the guys of hey, do you want me to mow your lawn or something like that is what he did. Huh yeah, yeah, and uh so he's he identifies the footprint is being from that niche shoe. Well maybe, and then he follows the first

car that drives by to see what shoes the drivers wearing. Okay, so maybe he plans on checking everybody in the whole subdivision. I don't know. And eureka, he looks out of it's a pair of yeah, yeah, a little Sherlock Holmes there. It turns out to be a pair of a pair of purple Etnis. This is uh. I don't know Jared said this or not, but this is what Tony in her diary said. He said purple Etneys. And I checked their website and I don't see any purple shoes in

their catalog. Sorry, I just I'm just saying, that's that's a pair of purple Atkneys. They really did? Really? Yeah, well they're mostly black. They're mostly black. But I don't I doesn't I remember those shoes. I remember them being cool at that time. Um so I guess it wouldn't really surprise me so much. If you know Jared, it was a small town, and you know, he was like, oh, that guy's got cool shoes. What kind of shoes of the O, the purple, their Etney's and then he saw us, uh,

you know, for whatever reason. And this is not to say that Keenan was stalking around the house. He could have taken a shortcut through the back and left a footprint. But he goes, oh you know what, that guy, um, Keenan, he has those cool Antkneys. I should go see those to see if there he is? Right? There? Is he wearing them? Now? Oh yeah? Yeah. And we don't know how old this kid is at this point. It could be I'm not really sure. Okay, let's just say he's a preteen and he gets swept up in in in

Tony's excitement. Kids do that. They're in the case. They're gonna fix it, they're gonna solve it, and they found the clue. I mean yeah. I will just also add that the souls of Antney shoes usually say Etney and then well no. Um. The other thing though, is that is that they were pretty popular at the time. Oh yeah, absolutely. And I'm not saying that that means that it was

Keenan's shoes. I'm just saying it would not be insane to me to think that somebody had noticed that that one guy has that cool pair of Antney's and like, let's see if he's wearing them right now. Yeah, okay, that works, except, of course we still don't know it was him, because for sure, no, no, no, yeah, I totally agree with that. Yeah. Yeah, back to back to Tony and her claims, Uh, there's the missing driver's license. But you can totally picture a serial killer taking a

driver's license as a souvenirs are a big thing. Yeah. Sure, but the police December two, the day of they searched Tony's car, which Morgan had been in the night before, and they found Morgan's driver's license in there and she just left in the car, Yeah, Morrigan. Ingram dot com still claims that the driver's license was taken. The date rape drug thing. They say on there that amaterip de lane is a date rape drug. Insufficient quantities, but it isn't.

I have heard that if you mix it with alcohol, it can have an effect similar to real hypnol. But Morgan didn't have any alcohol or system. Yeah, and I tried to track some stuff down and the well, I know I didn't. I did the whole date rape drug thing and again is I looked up this drug specifically trying to find some stuff, and there's not a lot.

And it's it's really it's inconclusive. It's it's not as if it's a It blatantly does this, and if you combine it with this, this or this, you're gonna be knocked out and completely compliance to whoever is with you. It's not a very it's not a clear cut case all. But let's be fair. That's not necessarily information you want to post on the internet. But I hate to tell you this, The information I was reading was on a frigging forum, so the people who were responsible for trying

to control that information cannot control the forum. Yeah. And and just as a warning to anybody might take our information and run with it. If you can bind drugs, you know, you can actually kill somebody, So you might not just be guilty of rape, it'll be guilty of murder. So just don't do it, Okay, exactly, that's outfair, Okay, So that's like a good call. Yeah. So there's more stolen stuff though besides the stolen the stolen jewelry, remember that. Yeah, Yeah,

so her jewelry was missing. Uh, but that was that was actually not reported to police until April, twelve months after Morgan and died. Four months, yeah, four months. Keenan van Ginkel got into a little trouble with the law. He sold several is a gold jewelry at one of those we by gold places. I think it was called gold for cash and he was whichever one. Yeah, he

was arrested on suspicion of receiving stolen property. And it turns out he had in his person some marijuana, had a pipe, which his possession of either one of those was illegal, not anymore, but then in Colorado, I know he was looking at that. Two later, I'm still dealing with a rap for getting caught with pod. Everybody I know he uh. The stolen property charges were dropped, but

the POD charges stuck. Of course. After Tony learned of this, she emailed Detective glass Bar and told him that mortgage jewelry was missing, and it had been missing since the night of the murder, and she later revised this and this is my email arises too while some of the jewelry was gone, but they weren't sure which pieces have been taken, and Glassbar told her that they couldn't investigate the crime unless the England Pilot police report on the

stolen property, and he encouraged them to file a report on that. Well, the Ingram's never did. However, their website still claims that Drewler was stolen. They they had it really hard for him, like he was there there only suspect they were throwing everything they could at him. I'm not. I I understand the last viable, known responsible party. We've got to put everything into getting justice. I think it's a little misdirected, but I understand why they were going

after him so hard. I understand it too. But and I'll get into this little a little bit later, but it's just totally it totally is out of hand. Oh yes, yeah, I would really agree. It got pretty wild. Yeah, it's it still is out there. I mean, I mean that website is still out there with all of this many accusations. Another reason that to question Tony's integrity here, which is

Brooke Brooke Harris so girlfriend, Yeah, Keenan's girlfriend. I keep wanting to say Kegan and myself, I used to work with a guy named Kegan, and so it's like and so I never worked with a guy named Keenan. Got it. At least you didn't work with Keanu in the movie. What do you mean at least you didn't, because because if if you worked in that movie, you would go to with a kitten. It looked like that you'd go to stupid length to do whatever you had to for

that cute kitten. What you guys look at me like you haven't seen that movie. Of course I've seen that movie. I have not seen that movie that We'll talk to Joe. Let's keep going. Oh my god, all right, I don't want to get you sidetracked with cats. Okay, that's a good point. Uh. So remember, for the first part of our saga, the only suspect in the Ingram's thing was Keenan. That was it, but that it turned out that Keenan had been out of state for three days in September

and seven days in November. I think it was on a hunting trip at one point. Yeah, there, I think they of both hunting trips and uh and of course some of the incidents occurred during those time periods. And then also when they checked his work records, well, uh, he was on the job when a lot of these incidents occurred too, So that kind of would have you think that would rule him out as a suspect. But then yeah, Tony and Steve decided, well, that must mean

that Brooke is in the conspiracy too. Yeah, even though and so they started accusing Brooke also being in on this, and even though they had broken up I think by this time. Nonetheless, Yeah, so it's crazy. But and as far as the claimed that the police did not investigate, there was a lot of follow up by police, you know,

long after Morgan's death. They did continue to pursue the possibility of the maybe a murder, And certainly Tony was all over the Sheriff's office and there was tons of contact, and it's all on the reports, all the emails, all the phone conversations, pushing the idea that Keenan was a serial killer in the Audia auDA YadA uh. In March two to two thousand twelve, Glassmyer Brock Keenan in for another interview. This time he lied to him last Buyer allied.

He said that some of the some of the driveway video had been sent to an independent lab and they had enhanced it again doing that the enhancement bs and and they definitely showed Keenan being in Morgan's driveway. He also had a lab report from the same lab. You know what's what's said the same thing, essentially totally doctor he showed it to Keenan. He probably made it word Yeah, yeah,

he probably did. And and Keenan still just basically didn't according to the police reports, didn't change his story at all. It says, I have not been on their property period. I don't care what that camera says. And and I think he convinced glast Buyer. Actually glass Buyer did ask him bog willing to submit to a computer voice stress analyzer. Keenan said that he would. Uh. I don't know if that even exists. That might have been another made up

BS thing. But he you know, the glass Buyer was actually on the case as far as the ingland sticking. He was not. Didn't do any investigation. I mean, he took their chief suspect, who, by the way, there was not a shred of evidence against and still starting the process. Yeah, he hammered on him a little bit to try to get him to confess, and he didn't do it. So that but but nonetheless, the claim that the police didn't investigate is still on their website, and you know, and

obviously the police did investigate. Uh. There's another another thing that really raises my eyebrows, which is this, Um, there was an incident. I think it took place on September five, and I mentioned it before. Tony was standing in the fourier of their house. Somebody ran across the saw to the windows. He turned, he turned and ran. Uh he ran around the north side of the house. And her husband didn't see this person even though he ran to the back of the house and try to see him

through the sliding lass doors in the back of the house. Now, it's interesting about this is that it wasn't that long before this that they had installed a camera above the porch of the house us to the front of the house, and this guy was running across, and this guy was not caught on film. That's kind of mysterious to me, which makes me believe excuse me for interrupting, was interrupting, But it makes me wonder. Obviously Steve didn't see the guy.

She could have totally made the entire thing up. I mean, I don't know, but certainly he should have been caught on the camera. If you'd run across their driveway and around the side of at least one camera and that didn't happen, did it. No? And here's the other thing is that you will see on the internet, I know Devin and I were chatting about this earlier. Is the path.

So there's a burn behind the col de sack that separates it from the property this next door, which I think is a horse farm, and it's got some roads and pastures in it. And if you go uh northeast from the house, it'll take you to the intersection of Kenny Road one hundred and is in a state eighty two I think it is. I can't remember now on the top of my head. I'm too lazy to go. Look,

it's Highway eighty two, Highway two. Okay. Well, at that intersection of Highway eighty two in County Road one there's a bus stop. And so there's a couple of things that make me think of what this this supposed um

stalker path could be. Is it could be somebody who doesn't have a car who says, well, let's see, I can walk the mile and a half around going along the road for I can kind across the properties that are in this cul de sac and the field and and you know, cut my trip in half, which is gonna explain why if some if people are doing that, one or more people are doing that on a regular basis, that's gonna wear a path I never mind, could be a game path, because it could be game that animals

that are setting off their motion detectors. Um. But the other thing that I was wondering about, somebody walking their dog. I mean, it's entirely I mean, I've brought this up before. I've mentioned dogs several times in this, but it's entirely possible that somebody on that call to sac has a dog. The backyards aren't fenced in, so somebody could be walking along and then they cut through the neighborhoods they walk this. You know what sucks about having a dog picking up poop?

You know what's awesome about a field. You don't have to pick up anything. So you just you cut through the berm, You walk your dog out there, the dog does its business, dog or dogs, and then you and then you walk back and you let's say that it's rural enough that whoever is doing this is not walking their dog on a leash. Well, now they're walking their path every time their dogs are falling, that their dogs are running all over the property to call the sack,

setting off motion detectors and cameras like mad like. I've just made these up because I was looking at it. But these are two very plausible reasons for the path and possibly for the motion detectors being triggered. Because motion detectors are not a straight beam. They throw a very wide arc. My neighbor had one on his shed that in my yard. I could wave and it would set it off, and it was pointed in his yard only. So I mean, these things are not perfect. They're not fallible, infallible,

So I just there's a lot of things. Yeah, Now I just wonder there's there's all sorts of reasons. I mean, I I know that, you know, people cut through and across other people's property all the time. It's just not that unusual, and especially when it's kind of a ruralist area. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, So back to another reason to wonder about Tony's incredibility here is I talked to Detective Glassmire actually just this morning, and we had it was

a pretty brief chat. He's left the Sheriff's office. He's now Garfield County corner. And he wouldn't comment in the case because he thinks it would be appropriate for him to do it since he's no longer with the Sheriff's Department. Understandable, But he did say an interesting thing, um, because I asked him my first question was did the stocking even happen? Because I said, I'm really doubting that it even did, and he said, yeah, there are a lot of people

who doubt it. But other than that, that's all I got out of him. But well, that's not an admission of anything from it's not he wouldn't say. He wouldn't tell me what his personal opinion was, which as a professional I totally respect. Yeah, but I respect that too. But he did say that a lot of people do doubt it, and so I personally suspect that he probably kind of doubts it. I don't want to put words in his mouth, no, nor do I, but I suspect

that a lot of people doubt it. But there's there's one last thing about this that really kind of raises my eyebrows, um, and that is the security cameras. We talked about their poor qualities, Yeah, their poor quality in their lack of findings. Yeah. Yeah, the fact that they never got a single frame of usable evidence out of any of those cameras, and they put a bunch of math there, which really makes you wonder why they didn't upgrade the better quality cameras. In fact, it to me

that's kind of unfathomable that they didn't do this. Why did they not upgrade the better cameras? Aren't they expensive? Sure they are, but I will so I have a family member who has security cameras around their house and got them based on the recommendation of somebody and doesn't totally understand what they're using. So may not understand. Let's say that this family member that my family member is capturing things and can't figure out what the problem is.

May not comprehend that the issue is not with whoever is running around that they're trying to capture being so good, but in fact the quality of the camera that I mean, why not get a better camera? But it may not comprehend it. That is the problem, is the point that I'm making here. Joe may not realize that the problem is you have a crap camera, So they don't. They don't even think that I need to replace it with a better one because they just don't realize the problem.

Here's the deal. If you're concerned about the issue, and you really want to know who your prayer is, then you're gonna be asking people. You'll be asking the cops, will be asking the people of the story about the camera from You're gonna be asking people, how do I get a good image. I'm not disagreeing with you. Yes, if they if they wanted to go to just amazing length, they should have ringed the house in I infrared cameras and night vision cameras and just recorded seven and invested

in some crazy setup. But they didn't do that. But I'm not gonna I'm not gonna fault them because I personally don't know that they didn't realize where their issue in getting an image of this person was. They always said, this guy is so widely, he is so good at what he's doing that he's evading not only us, he's evading the police. So again, I'm not gonna That's why I'm not I'm not saying that that's something to hold too.

As strongly as you you know, I still think, you know, especially as far as the expense of the whole thing. I mean, these people lived in a large, nice modern house. They drove, They drove a land Rover for christ Sex, not a cheap not a cheap ride. And so I don't think money was that much of an object for them.

And I really would have thought that if identifying the PURP was that high in their priority list, I really think they would have gotten better equipment, They would have consulted somebody who could have guided them into how to get better images. At this point, we're going into what if land and I think we're almost sending a little judge, So I think we need to that's true. That No, I'm just saying I find it a little puzzling like that.

So you guys have any more thoughts on this this mystery and now, yeah, anybody want to cuse No, I mean, it's just sad, totally, the whole situation. It is, especially for the I mean for the family obviously, for Morgan and also for Keenan, who I you know, obviously I think very unfairly been accused. I think that pretty famous crimes.

I'm still of the opinion that I think that something was building that was not recognized or diagnosed with and that's what whether this was done intentional, whether it was an intentional or unintentional. I think that something was happening with her and she didn't know what was going on. I mean, it's just just based on what I've seen in the behavior and the things. It's just an observation.

But that's where I think. Yeah, But anyway, it's it's unfortunate, but you know, hopefully everybody sooner or later we'll get their acts together and you know, people will live happily ever after. In the meantime, it's still crazy on the internet. So you guys probably wanted some interesting facts about us. Well, let me start from this top. We have a website. I don't know if you know this and that we have a website, can you believe it? Yeah? Yeah, it's

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we'll see you all out there on the internet. Bye bye, everybody, bie guys,