Thinking Sideways: Skinwalker Ranch

talk about a mystery. Is it really? That's a scary mystery too? On top of just how do we not do this in in October? Because not enough people asked for it? I think I have asked for it. Yeah, yeah, you've been willful ignoring I guess. So. Once again, this is examples of where Joe doesn't look at the inbox, does not look at the internet stuff, like at the inbox all the time. I answered a couple of emails

just today he did actually thank you. So this week we're gonna be talking about the skin Walker ranch or how I learned to stop worrying and accept my alien overlords. I like that. Yeah, oh boy, oh, I can always tell we're in for a ride when you've subtimes given subtext to the title of the episode. Yeah, that's true, it's gonna be Buckle up guy. That's a good one. But yeah, now this is the place So and the Aliens finally decided to open up those those timespace portals

and flood through and take over the world. That's going to happen here. I'm sure gonna happen here. Yeah. Yeah, So I'm going to give in. I'm just gonna turn you two in as conspirators. Yeah, I'm gonna be a total quizzling Yeah, that's funny because all they have to do is listen to our backlog and they'll know who their true ally is me hobnoutly obviously not yeah fake in the whole time your sarcasm. Aliens won't know what sarcasm is. Let's be fair right there. That's why she's

going to get vapori. Okay, was already off track. Al Right, restart, Okay. Today we're going to talk about what's widely accepted as the weirdest place in America. Although I have been to the Oregon Vortex, so I say, no, that's the weirdest spot. That is a weird place. Out here. I had not been there. Actually, we've never been to my my family's house. It's actually a pretty weird place to I'll put that

on the list. Okay, that's fair. Yeah. Anyway, skin Walker Ranch in Utah, since it's creation almost fifty years ago, I guess I don't know. I think that's when it became when all of it was cock solidated, but all of the acreage was brought under one kind of umbrella. I think the house is actually built. Yeah, but all of the land surrounding it is now skin Walker Ranch, I think wasn't It wasn't all a part of the same thing until so the footprint was established in fifty

years ago. That's a good way to say. Um, strange things have been a foot there since then, including hundreds of UFO sightings, animal mutilations, and sightings of strange animals. And there are fifteen distinct phenomenons that have phenomenon's phen phenomena that have been recorded. So we're going to go ahead and just start there. Uh No, we're not going to talk about all fifteen. We'll talk about almost all

of the fifteen, but not all fifteen. Yeah, these are and these started I believe in the mid nineteen nineties and like correct, Yes, that's when they started being tragged cataloged, I guess, yeah, And a few of them have like back up in that, you know, somebody who owned the property before mentioned there are some articles from the seventies, the sixties and seventies that mentioned weird lights in the

sky or things like that. So that's that's a little back up for some of these, but they weren't started being cataloged until the nineties. Yeah, that's weird lights, lights in the skies at this ranch, in the general area genera. I was reading, I read some of those, uh, those newspapers,

you know. Thankfully Google's got all that catalog and I found a bunch of stuff from the area from about the sixties and seventies, late sixties forward and read a number of them, and mostly it's weird stuff in the sky. It's not so much what we're about to go through,

but it's catalogs of odd events. Yeah. Also, um, right off the bat, before we go too far into this, I should note that a lot of these stories about Skinwalker Ranch are contained solely in one of four separate books, all of which were authored by a guy named Ryan Skinner, who I guess is one of the lead investigators in the area. I'm not really sure. I'm not sure. It's

not totally clear. He definitely builds himself as having some really strong connection to Skinwalker Ranch, but and I don't know, I didn't see. Well, there's Skinner, and then there's George what's the reporter's name. Oh yeah, George George Knapp. Yeah, that's the one. He's done a lot of a lot of I would say legwork maybe, but he's another one of the the sources that you'll find reference besides Walker Skinner.

Skinner I had, But I think the actual first the first mention of it was it was it the Desire News in like nive or six. Yeah, local paper they've published an article about the ranch and about the current owners, who are the Sherman's Terrian when Yeah, but that was not George Knapp. No, it was let's let's talk about the weird cookiness here. Come on, people want to know about the strange thing. They want to know about all these things. So we're just gonna like direct from the website.

This is where I pulled this list from. Format. It's not involve format. That's true branching out and it is. It's very interesting. Um. So we're going to go through the list and then we'll come back and address some of these things. Okay, okay, cool, So on the list

and up, yeah, okay. No. One of the things that I'm going to mention is that on this list, it's kind of like a little bit of a spreadsheet and it has like the name and like a little bit of a description, and then like some other information and then the percent chance you have of seeing this thing if you visit Skinwalker Ranch. Someone include the percentages because I think it's important just tell you this. Somebody figured out how to use Excel and that's the only reason

these things are in there. But I'm not sure. Some of these percentages are weird. So I don't know how their couch. So I didn't say how to use it, right, they just learn how to use it. Anyway, this phenomena you have a two per chance of seeing it, and it's called the portal. This is a window into another dimension that opens on the property above the property there either orange or blue. Um. There have been no reports of explosive lemons, however, so we are safe from gladys

for now, if you get it, you get it. If you don't, you don't. Just a fallout joke. No, it's definitely not a follow joke. Um. The portals open up for about ten seconds and they're about five hundred to a thousand feet in the air. The orange ones allow living creatures through and the blue one is for vehicles. So what happens to a vehicle when it comes through the portal and drops a house? No idea, it's no, Oh my god, start trying to figure it out. No,

I don't know. I think it's like flying vehicles. Not, it's not like terrestrial like it's not like a tank just falls from the south. No, no, no, it keeps like flying crafts. Okay, okay, like a che I was too. I was thinking, like, you know, a tank just falling out of this guy, And I was like, that's sound dangerous sitting around down below. Especially. Yeah, so you gotta run real fast. No one of these people lost so many. Yeah. Um.

Fourteen is the sentient mist. You also have a two percent chance of seeing this, and the mist is a dark smokelike entity that maybe just a transitional phase for something else. It's often seen taking the form of a humanoid with tentacles for arms, So it's possible it's just Taranga Munda. I'm really sorry. There are so many nerve

references today. It's just no, it doesn't matter anyways. The mist he uses its tentacles to toxify victims by inserting the tentacles in the mouth and using burning dust to suffocate them. The victims are immediately transported to the quote spirit world. I'm not totally sure how we know this.

It kills you, I guess by those reports, But so I don't totally know how it is that we know that you go to the spirit world like a presumably somebody doesn't come back to life, but you know how many people, So I take it that they've seen this thing a fair number of times and it kills people every time. I have no idea, Yeah, I have no idea. I've this is this. It is like kind of a tough one to buy into. We're going to talk about

that in a minute. Next up is the Cathulu slug. Yeah. Um, it's number eleven on that list, but there's no information about it, not even how likely we are to see it. If we went to and Walker Ranch and it looks a whole lot like a really big leech, I think, but literally, the like the information on it is like, it's called the Catholi slug. It's a slug, it's big, it hurts people, dead slug. That's all, okay. Next up

is water babies. Um. This is an actual thing that has been described by the local native communities in their myths. They were called PoCA pisas thank you. They're found in the water near skin Walker Ranch, and they're known for their vocalizations, which sounds like crying babies. The creatures in fact resemble a small human with black hair. If you are fooled by the crying, the water baby will drag you into the water with all its might and drown you.

No word on what happens to you at that point, sir world, I guess I don't know, but you have a six percent chance that they'll do it. I'm right for an hour. So I don't think we said this before, But this whole thing take tkes place in Utah. There's not a lot of water. Well, my question was, I don't really know Utah to be a mecca for pot use, and yet this really sounds like what a bunch of stoners would talk about. Oh no, not stoners, but like

some hallucin agens. Okay, guys on mushrooms. Yeah, they they have like that. They have like pot and stuff like that down there too. True, Yeah, that's probably okay, alright, might be I know what to cause. Got so. I don't know if you're but if you're in Utah and you see a crying baby in the water, don't try to rescue it. Don't. Yeah, solid advice. Yeah. Number nine, you've got a chance of seeing this. It's the firefly

sparts sprites. Excuse me, firefly sprites. These creatures are just really small balls of bluish light that float from the ground up to the sky. Just totally natural phenomena. I don't know why they have it on the list, because they even say it's a natural phenomenon. But hey, call me crazy, but these they had to get to fifteen on that list because nobody believes the top fourteen. Yeah. But the spriots aren't going to kill you at least. No,

they don't do anything. They don't interact, They just float up to the air. Number seven is the dark one, and this is kind of where things start to get interesting. You have a point oh zero zero three point zero three percent chance of seeing this thing? Three percent chance, yes, three three? Yet what Amy saying? Yeah, I'm bad at that. So I mean the odds of seeing the Dark One, A bet. It's still better than winning the lottery. They are, But you know, it's interesting that the odds of seeing

it are so low. But it has been reported. The sightings of the Dark One have been reported by both the previous owners of the ranch and a lot of the investigators that go out there. So it's it's just weird that there are like, actually so many reports of this thing. When they're like, but it's really really rare that you might see it. Anyway, it might be that they just the percentage is they just pulled him out of thin air and it's just kind of a joke. Yeah,

it's possible. I think that would require having a sense of humor about the whole thing, which I don't think they do. I went out to the website and I coached brows, didn't listen to a bunch of different stuff, but I didn't actually thoroughly investigate it from from top

to bottom. I didn't look at every knick and cranny at the website, yeah, it's fair, nor should you have Yeah, okay, So he's a The phenomenon is like a vision basically, or you see a man standing alone and he appears to be dressed as a primitive Native American, but also maybe like a native Southern American, like an Aztec or

Pueblo or Central American sort of thing. He doesn't speak, and it kind of appears that he's like he's just experiencing a time slip, because we've talked about what time slips are before, right, people know what time slips are when you're just existing in your own time and you slip into a different time for a second and then slip back into your own time. It's not that this guy is not physically in this world, then, No, he's not.

He's seen through a portal and he his surroundings are visibly different than the surroundings that you view him in. It's like seeing him through a window. Yeah, and he's always surprised that he's there and surprised that you're there. He doesn't speak, and there's some theory that he was maybe the person who opened the first portal on the land and he's like trapped there, which is what keeps

the portal alive. He's just seen for a minute or two. Um, And like I said, the environment's different around him than where you are, Like if you're standing in the forest, it's like he's standing in a desert sort of thing. I don't know if it's that pronounced, but I now know where the entire concept of haven came from. Yeah, another anomaly. This is Joe's favorite. Yeah, likely to see

the bulletproof wolf. And this bulletproof wolf appears to be almost a like dire wolf size, really large and imposing and of course black actually a naturally large and that's what they say, unnaturally large. The owners of the ranch feel that it's a physical manifestation of whatever quote whatever intelligence is on the ranch unquote, And it sounds like

there's a lot of intelligences on the ranch. So I don't know which intelligence we're talking about, like if it's the native component or the alien component or the whole ranch was built on top of an Indian burial ground. Absolutely was, all of Utah was built over Indian burial ground. So to be fair, here, apparently it looks like a normal wolf but is bigger, but quote doesn't act like one unquote Joe, I just heard the story, you know that that it was like right after they moved into

the ranch, the Shermans, Yeah, the Sherman's. Yeah, Terry and Gwen Sherman moved in and then this wolf shows up, but he's not being aggressive or anything like that, but comes over to them and sort of like says high and then goes over and try and started trying to like like pull a calf out of a pan. Yeah, And so they got a gun and they shot it

and it just didn't phase it at all. And they shot it again and something like some guy got his high powered thirty six and shot it and that took a little bit of patch of fur off of it, but other than that, didn't face it at all. So I shot it like four times, Yeah, and then it just like wandered away. It could be. It could also be it's not bulletproof and they were shooting at it and they were missing. Yeah, there's always that sounds no, No,

there's a good, guys, good never missed. Flash drones are number two on the list. Um, there's a one in four chance that you'll see a flash drone if you visit Skinwalker Ranch. Oh, I thought this was a rave thing. It's just a light. I mean, really, it's just delight. Apparently, however, they have intelligence behind them that exactly they are curious. They're described as curious. Yeah, that they'll like approach humans

and stuff like that. Yeah, I don't totally no, And actually on the website, this is the anomaly that's written about the most. But apparently they can mess with the electronics these lights, specifically the electronics of the house. Um, they hover silently and they they, like I said, they're kind of curious, and apparently they will approach people. And they are influenced by meditation, so if you meditate near them, they'll react in a way. That's one more reason not

to meditate. You got to close your eyes to meditate, right, I'm not closing my eyes around those things. And because I can't leave out the most frequently cited thing, Um, we have the spotlight. You have a forty six percent chance of seeing this. I'm gonna go ahead and briefly mention the fact that there is not a single phenomenon on the list that you are more than likely to see at any given time. Some nice possible deniability there Exactly if you go out there and have a look

around there. I don't know, flip of a coin, you got a bad night, sorry, man. Yeah, it's like a motorcycle. The spotlight apparently it's like a motorcycle driving anywhere between ten and forty miles per hour, which is like actually huge variants, but okay, about eight feet off the ground. Serious, yeah, serious, black, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, and the spot I can read minds. Yeah,

apparently it can read minds sometimes, but not always. Sometimes it has a tailight, sometimes it doesn't, but it can read a red light very specific, very specific, yeah, sometimes, but not always sometimes. So yeah, you guys want to talk about which one of those do you like? What's your favorite? None of them? Let's talk about all of them. So Skinwalker Ranch is near off Fort You Shane, thank you, which is like forty or fifty miles from the border

of Colorado. I'm right about that. Yeah, that's up in that It's it's that weird northeastern notch of the stage. Yeah. Yeah, So it's at Fort Chane. It's a little a little white spot in the road about six people, I think pretty much. Yeah, and the ranch is just south of it. Yeah, and as far as we can tell on Google Maps. Um, even though this ranch isn't actually you have to like kind of guess where when you search the the address of the ranch house, it's like that place doesn't exist.

If I found I think one of the websites, it might be when you gave us where I found it had the coordinates. Yeah, and if you put in the cordinates. The only thing that I ever found that mentions skin Walker Ranch is a photo that somebody put up that's titled skin Walker Ranch Entrance. That's the only way you find it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I went and looked on Google Maps and then I just called it. I

think it's Pounce, Uinta County. I called their assessor's office and got the guy to look on to look at the plat map for the area and also look at Google and he gave me the parcel number for that that particular spot and that's and I was able to look it up and that is indeed owned by Big A Little Utah LLC. This guy us phone, Yeah, calling the third time in three months, used to phone like it if I can't find it on Google, it does not exist in the world. Is here? Somebody? I could

have just texted yeah. As an aside. When I had this this guy from the county on the phone, I said, hey, you know I do a podcast. And I said, if you heard of the skin Walker rash and he goes, oh yeah, and and you know, I said, so apparently lots of people have seen all kinds of strange things. He says, yeah, that's what I hear, and it's I And I said, I said, well, have you ever seen anything? And he said now, I said, do you know anybody

who's ever seen anything? He said no. And I said, do you know anybody who knows anybody who's ever seen anything? He said no, Yeah, which is actually really good information because when you read about this online, you'll hear like this county, there's like so much phenomenon, like everybody in the county has seen something. You will literally read like almost verbade him that thing. You know, It's like it's such a weird place that everybody who lives in that

town has seen. And obviously that's not true. No, it's not. I am I also call it. It's a local newspaper in Vernal, Utah, which is a town about I don't know. Tanner Tanner, fifteen miles northeast of Fort Duche. They have a little newspaper they're called the Vernal Express, and so I got on their website and I called one of the reporters, a woman named Liberty Best. Hadn't chat with her, and I said, well, about the skin Walker ranch thing

you've heard? And she said, oh yeah. Asked her the same set of questions I asked the guy at the county and there was always no. She doesn't know anybody who knows anybody's seen anything. And I asked her if she'd ever talked to the shermans. She'd never had, and then uh, I called the Uinta County I think it's Uintah County slightly mispronounced it, sorry, Sheriff's office and talked to somebody there because I wanted to find out or there are lots of reports of UFOs or mutilated cattle.

Not really. Now, first I talked to you is like she was really she was very nice, and she said she'd never seen anything. She said her parents did see some weird stuff years ago, but she was she didn't say exactly what it was. That's that's about it. I mean, that's that's that's not exactly a comprehensive survey of the people of the area. But it's not not I mean, if there's only like a thousand people who live in the area, right, I mean, you think somebody would know somebody.

Somebody should one of those three people should know somebody who knows somebody who you know. And I guess if the woman's mom and dad saw something like then okay, there's a sample there. But but you know, I've seen weird things in life. Yeah, And if there's this amount, if there's if as reported as much stuff is happening as is reported, people they should be seeing stuff left

and right. I mean realistically absolutely, and it's it. And and there's lots of surrounding properties near the ranch were with houses on them, people who living there, and you know, so yeah, it's not as if it's desolate. No, there's plenty of plenty of people living in the area. Also, UM as a fun little note to remind everyone, UM,

phenomenal like this doesn't necessarily respect parcel boundaries, right. No, I mean that's something that I think people like, it's very easy to get swept up and forgetting like all this stuff is happening on this ranch, but like, why is it not happening around the ranch to you? There's no good reasons. No, there's no spillover. It's happening in these four acres alone. Right back to debunking some of these things, as if Joe's four calls three calls weren't enough,

they're not conclusive. I did, I did. Google's going to charge us for those phone calls. By the way, long distance, I know. Um, I did do a search because you know, my first inclination whenever we hear UFO like weird light stuff like that, is like, well, obviously there must be an air force space around there, right, there's actually not suspiciously barren of any military installation suspicious it is. No, it's like equidistant between like four different ones, So that

in itself maybe that's suspicious. I don't know it is, because it is it's almost exactly in the middle between Camp Williams and the F. E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming, like almost equidistant. That's not I think it's closer to Camp Williams myself, but it's, like I said, almost equalistant. Um, so maybe they've been like testing back and forth. I don't know, special special like reverse engineered

like you know, American made flying saucers that. Yeah, although I will take this moment to mention we've mentioned briefly that Terry and Gwen Sherman were the owners of this property from the early nineties until they bought it and I think sold it. Yeah, they were only like two

or three years, two or three years. And so in this this guy Bigelow, Robert Bigelow, he's the millionaire owner of Billionaire bill excuse me, billionaire owner of Budget Suites of America UM and also the founder of Bigelow Aerospace UM. He owns almost the entirety of Skinwalker Ranch. Now, the whole thing. He owned the whole thing. Yeah, I thought there was like a little bit that he didn't own. There's like a very small acreage. But no, no, I mean I trust you on this stuff, and I trust myself.

You can actually search county the candy assession site by by owner name, and I searched for the Shermans, and the only parcel that they own is in Jensen, Utah. So I all seven parcels that are are the ranch are owned by Bige Little Utah LLC. Okay, Yeah, so I guess it's a little interesting because you may have missed the fact that I said that he is the founder of Bigelow Airspace, Aerospace excuse me aerospace. He's got what he's putting a hotel into space? Is that what?

It's kind of a cool idea. It's a big inflatable structure. They're gonna like put it up into orbit and then they're gonna have one of those little those little CEO two cart and that's going to blow the whole thing up. But I mean, but well, this is like fun discussion. But he has actually put two things into space, all right, He's got two of them, and he's got two things in space. Who's been up there for a couple of years. So maybe he was actually using the ranches testing and

he just wasn't telling anybody could be they do? They do seem a total d move right there. Oh yeah, Okay, so we're getting off traffic and I'm sorry you guys, oh it. Uh So, the the things like slugs, I think we can dismiss that. I can't find any information about what they look like, how often we see these things, how we even know about them. So I'm going to go ahead and dismiss that phenomenon. We can defend ourselves from them very easily, salt, just carrying a shaker of salt.

When I think either their slugs or their leeches, they might just be big er, or they're just totally made up. Maybe there's some sort of slug this native to Utah that's the size of your arm. Yeah, maybe they're like the Mongols something. Yeah. Yeah. The firefly sprites and the flash strones I think are probably the same thing. And I think that they are a thing that we've actually I think we talked about this before briefly in another episode.

It's a pretty well known phenomenon called will of the Wisps. I think we talked about it in the mom Talk. No, no, well you know, well, yeah, we we talked about this earlier. And not trying to remember, I thought that it was either the who put Bella in the witch Elm or the other one that I think it might have been was the Forest. Yeah, I can I can't remember, because I swear you it was an episode that you did. I did actually go through. I can't listen to all

of our episodes. I actually couldn't even go through all of ouring that are out right now. You don't have time for that weird, right, But I do remember at one point we talked about this natural phenomena with the like lights that shoot out of the water swamp gas sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, so scientists, there's no swamps near the ranch, right, No, but it's not only seen around swamps. It's seen around any kind of body of water, and not even exclusively around bodies of water, but anywhere

where there might be gas releases. It is a naturally occurring phenomena. So like, yeah, so scientists starting sure what causes it, but they are sure that it's a natural phenomena, and we see it all over the place, all over

the world. Yeah, there's there's other phenomena to like, floating lights are not uncommon, like the Marfa lights in Texas, Yeah, exactly, and those are the those have pretty much been proven to just be car headlights passing through what's called a Fata Morgana mirage, which is what's called a superior mirage because it makes things on the on the on the ground appear to be up in the air, to be

higher than that. Well, that's the same thing that there's that that was it's currently going around on the day we're recording. This will be several weeks past. But there is the floating Chinese skyscrapers. Have you guys seen this. There's clouds in the sky and there are skyscrapers in the clouds, and it's the exact same phenomenon that's causing that. And actually, I guess we bring up at this point likely it's the exact same phenomenon that's causing a motorcycle

to be eight ft feet in the air. Entirely possible to Yeah, but now there are a lot of different totally approvable natural phenomenon that these lights could be, including fireflies. I don't know if they knew either, but it could be a thing or maybe somebody listening from applies on fire. Maybe that's cruel. The bulletproof wolf, I'm nine point nine five sure it's just a real wolf. Joe and I were talking about this before you got here today. Is

the descriptions of the size of this wolf. One of the things that cracked me up is I think it's um it was the wife said that they saw the wolf and it was the size of her car, and she had it. She was driving a Chevy Chevette. Guess who owned a Chevy Chavette at one time. This kid right here, and I can tell you that a Chevy Shevette. I'm normal, light whatever, and it's about mid chest height on me. Been a own really big dogs like great Danes and whatnot, and pretty they're you know, a little

is that? Well? One of the things I wanted to say is that I have actually had the pleasure of interacting with real live wolves in in real life, and I think that people don't realize how stink and big they are, you know, especially if you're a rancher and you've seen them in the distance or you just like you think they're just like like the size of a lab or something like that. Those things are giant. Their paws are as big as my hand. Like they are big.

But they're not, no, certainly not, but they are big. And I can imagine that if you were suddenly approached by a big dog, you know, even if it wasn't that big, your mind is going to go, oh my god, that's a huge thing, right, You're going to inflate that it's bigger, especially if it's acting a way that you're not used to it acting. And I also am not, I just am not willing to say that it's like so unusual. I'm not willing to say that, like a

wolf is always going to walk up to you. But if you are in a ranch and that wolf and its family is living on that ranch, that's its territory. And also it hasn't been threatened the ranch was it was a band at least like for like seven years, And you're not like yelling at it and trying to get it away. It's not It's probably not. I I am not willing to say it like saddled up to them and like was friendly. But for a wild animal,

it may have been friendly. I don't have a hard time believing that it's a real wolf, like said they, And it happened right after they moved in, and so the wolf would probably have had the run of the place for years and now suddenly they show up and

it's curious about them and everything. But but as far as as far as the shooting goes, I never I don't even know how well documented the shooting was, Like, I don't One of the things they talk a lot about with this wolf is that they say, like wasn't aggressive, but it's it'll stare at you with like really intimidating stare, which is not uncommon for an alpha wolf to do. If it's big and you're not like actively threatening it, it'll look at you like it's angry at you, but

it's not going to attack you unless you attack it. Yeah. The one thing I think one bit of advice is if the alpha wolf is staring at you, don't stare them down. Back away, like be smart about it. But I'm just saying that the behavior that's described for this bulletproof wolf, I just I have a really hard time

thinking it's anything other than just a wolf. And one of the other things that I think is really interesting, actually is that one of the other phenomena they describe a lot is these things called the controllers, which just sounds like two men talking back and forth. And have you guys ever heard wolves howl in the distance, not the like of close ones, but far away when it's it gets broken up, and it's not the high pitch one, the lower pitch one. I'm talking about, kind of like

two dudes talking in the distance. Yeah, you know, it's really really cool to hear two's coyotes off of the distance at night. Yeah. Actually, I want to talk about coyotes. Can we before we get to the coyote thing, we're talking about wolvemore, there's one thing about this. They call it the dire wolf, right, the dire wolf. The giant is going to call it something else, the giant wolf. Here's the one thing that if this wolf is that big, there's one thing that I would imagine people would have

noticed that is never talked about. And I know I've brought us back to this subject before scat if a dog is this an animal the size of the car is gonna make large amounts of excrement there. I mean, it's you know, it's gonna be Maybe that's what's causing the lights. The point is, you would think that there would be reports of these random giant turds on the red ranches always have lots of turds on them already,

which is true. But that was the one thing. I I don't know why, but I was like, you think that they would have found, I mean, one of the other things. While we're on the subject of wolves and like cattle, because the Shermans were ranchers and they bought the land to have their cow ranch on, right, raised their cattle, and then there were all these reports of like cattle are getting mutilated, okay, or wolves are getting them.

So I looked up into the wolf populations and you know, in the eighties and then into the nineties, there was these big pushes for re established re establishing packs because you know, humans that hunted them nearly into most of them into extend ancient there actually wasn't that large of a wolf population in the country in general, So this

area to have that would be extremely unusual. Even today, where the packs are bigger than they've been in eighty or ninety years, that would still be a very strange concentration because those animals are very nomadic. They are though the huge range they absolutely do. That's true. Um, there's that nice little stretch up through Utah, up kind of through the rest of the country Canada, would it it's

not like solidly wooded. But the thing that didn't really start happening until the late nineties early two thousand's was actual wolf tracking. Like they pretty much tried to round up every single alpha male and female and tag them. Then they like put collars on them so they can track them. That's where we get our seven. For instance, the wolf that the old in Oregon, but we didn't

never start tracking that. So it's While it is unlikely that there was a quote unquote concentration, it's not bizarre to think there was a small pack or even just an alpha right with no mate, because they can go a long time without having mates. That just was undocumented. Again. But my problem is is that they range over huge areas. This story implies that it lived on this half mile square chunk of ground. I don't know for a fair amount of time in the course of it that it

like spent some time there. Yeah. Absolutely, I don't know that it like well, but but I'm just saying it. It implies that it was very, very localized, when that's not the way those creatures were. On the same page sighting rate, It's possible that you only see it of the year, I mean, a different wolf every time too. It's also possible a lot of these cattle desks are being caused by coyotes and stuff like that. Yeah, are we gonna talk about that? Yeah? Do you want to

talk about it now? I think we should. Yeah, so the cattle death. You have a lot of stuff you want to talk about, Well, I do because one of the things that I you see this in rural UFO stories and see a lot in this one is the cattle mutilation. Yeah, and there's a number that that's thrown around with Terry Sherman's heard. Well, yeah, that's we're gonna talk about that a bit. But the point is people say, well, and it was a half hour ago I saw that cow,

and now it's dead and completely mutilated. Almost Yeah. Well, I'm sorry, but I can't remember what kind of cow he had. But it seems to me there's spotted cows, and there's uniform color cows, and it seems like his cattle were uniform colored. So that's really hard for me to buy because from a disc didn't you can't read their tag, so you don't know if it's the same cow. Oh, I see what you're saying. I was confused about that

train of thought for a second. What you're saying is that, like you wouldn't be able to tell from a distance what cow he was. Was that cow seventy five or was that cow fifth? You don't know from a distance, you know, to read the tag. I mean those tags big, But I see what you're saying. I was just confused about why it mattered what kind of cow. Okay, yeah, but people say I saw the cow half an hour

ago and now it's completely mutilated. There's no blood. Well, a Utah is very cold in the winter, and so the blood isn't gonna blow everywhere when a cow dies, unless you know, you get shot. The other thing is, if you look up what kind of natural predators in the area. Well, there's there's big cats and there's wolves. Okay, well, those guys are gonna do huge amounts of damage to

an animal when they get ahold of it. But if something dies and smaller things get to it, like coyotes, raccoons, possums, skunks, they know an easy meal and that's called a dead animal. And what do they go for. They go for the softest tissue and what is Unfortunately, it's gonna be the anus, it's gonna be the genitals, it's gonna be the utter, it's gonna be the lips or the mouth, and the eyes and sometimes maybe the ears, which are all the areas that you always here called out as these strange

areas that were chrysturgically removed. But if you look at all these animals, they have very small, sharp teeth and they cut in kind of a clean line because they I mean, this is a terrible thing to imagine, but start at the back and burrow your way in. You're going to leave a pretty clean hole as you work your way through the soft tissue because you're not gonna be able to eat the tougher tissue easily. I just

I really would like to cancel these animals. Just say that if you take the trouble to go through the cow hide on the hodges of the thing, and there's some really awesome steaks there, it's much better. You're gross, but that's the soft and easy meal there. There are also, I guess it's worth mentioning, um, a fair amount of venomous snakes in Utah. Yeah, and it wouldn't be insane to think, well, they didn't mean maybe they didn't die

have natural car causes. Maybe that cow was dumb and stepped on that snake and it got bit with venom and and cows are stupid. Cows run into things that are solid. I don't know if you've ever seen a cow run headlong into a salt like a flat wall. Not you can see through slats. I'm talking like brick wall stone. They'll just head on, run right into it. Yeah, it's it's kind of too bad. I've heard that the original wild cows were a lot smarter, but we've humans

are pretty much bread everything we've done that. They are completely good at making things dumb. Yeah we are. So did you have more that you want to talk about with that? Well? No, well we'll talk. We're going to talk about it's Terry, right, We're gonna talk about Terry later on a little bit more, I believe. Yeah, we'll save it till then. Okay, great, Okay, so we're done talking about the wolf, okay, because we are still talking about animals um and have have either of you ever

heard a fox scream? Yeah? Have ever heard of fox make the scared noise? Yeah? They call it Wixen's scream, the vixens scream. Do you know what I'm talking about? I've never heard it a little. It might be that I've heard it and I just thought it was even being screaming. I'm gonna pause real quick and we'll listen to it. So hold on everybody for a second. Okay, we're back now. Joe's heard it too. If you haven't heard it, go out and like just google fox screaming,

you'll hear it. They've found a whole lot like human screaming. And if I don't know if you've heard the pups making that noise, but they sound like babies, Like they sound like babies crying, not like when when when, but like like a babysit screaming. Yeah, yeah, you know what else sounds like babies crying? Fishers, monkeys, peacocks, bobcats, a whole mess of other animals. Granted on that list, most of those animals don't exist in Utah. I'll give you that.

I I don't know. I'm going to call them guys, but peacocks do actually really really sound like babies crying. And I don't know if I know, there are a lot of places in America where people have peacocks on their farms, So I don't know, I don't know if they are if there are any in that area or not. There's really no way to know except for to go there, or I guess Joe could call them again or something, you know, anybody. Fishers are all there in North America,

but they're kind of more like our area. And then in the Northeast and in Canada, bobcats. They definitely bobcats down there, though, So for me, I would it would not be a hard stretch to hear fox like screaming in the middle of the night and mistake that for a baby crying. And then, as we know, people don't usually recover from like seeing the babies, so it's pretty easy for somebody to say, like, oh, do you hear that baby crying? Yeah, don't ever, this is what happens.

So so the the water babies are foxes stressed up in this little suits and making noise, isn't then when you go down there to pull them out, they grab you when they pull you under and they tear your throat out. Yeah, or they're just foxes making noises and somebody's elaborated on somebody stories, Yeah that baby is going to murder you. Yeah. The spotlight, as we kind of talked about, there's cosh. Joe just said what the phenomenal was, and I can't even what the the mirages, Yeah, the

mirage thing mirages. Yeah, so I think that's totally possible. It's also possible like low flying airplanes, you know. I also, I mean, I guess the only things that really falls the category are like the portal and the sentient missed. I'm willing to say the mist is probably just some freaking missed. I think you're both. The portal I don't know about. I don't think that's a real thing. I

don't think anybody's seen it. I think somebody played the game portal and was like, oh, that's a good idea brown bottle visions or like the mushrooms that grow on cattle cow pies. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, people never eat mushrooms. I think I've given you this warning before. It's just just don't do it. Do it in the safety of your own home with a babysitter, and then don't start telling people about stuff. No, just just eat the mushrooms that are at the salad bar. Those ones

are deemed safe. All the other ones stay away from him. Just don't do it. I don't think somebody hallucinated this stuff. I think that somebody ticked what was probably someone at the word. I'm thinking aboutpocryphal story that was printed in the mid nineties in the Desertrette News and then decided I'm going to grasp so much, so much crap onto this.

I'm going to make up so much outrageous stuff and just see what I can get away with, Just see how much outrageous stuff I can actually, Yeah, I think I will do that. And then the last is the dark one. I kind of fall either side of this. Either somebody totally made it up or I mean, they are really close to the reservation right next door. It's possible that somebody actually saw an actual Native American man and was just like, well, that's weird. I wonder how

I can twist this into a paranormal story. I think I just keep thinking of that. Did you guys watch the new episodes of Arrested Development the ones on Netflix. Uh, there's a part where one of the characters like thinks he sees a vision, but it's like kind of obscured by the sun, and it's like just a guy in like a peacock suit, just being a jerk. Like that's where I always go to with things like this is like,

it's like, I don't know what the situation was. Was the sun in your eyes where you like drunk, what's going on there? It happens, ye, So, but I guess I'm not entirely willing to say it's all made up. I guess the original owners of the land and house. You'll see either they like abandoned the property for a really really really long time, or they die and then abandoned for a couple of years before the Shermans bought it.

So either of those, I, as with all things real estate, I tend to trust Joe, given that he's called for like actual sources and stuff like that. But the Shermans, Gwen and Terry, you'll see their names be almost everything under the sun something Sherman's John Joe, Ry Gorman, Terry Gilman. Yeah, no, it's Terry and Gwen Sherman. Those are the actual names of the actual owners of the property. They bought the house and the property because Terry's cattle business was kind

of taking off. Can I ask you a question from this point forward, what you're about to go over or the Sherman's the source? Or is what is Mr Walker the guy who did all the writing? Skinner? Damn? It is he the source of all of this? As far as I can tell, they are the source of all of it. It's purported that they reported this, so he is the one who provided in writing as their voice. I don't know if you got that from them, or if you got it from subsequent people, because obviously they

left to night. I just want to ask, because I I just this all is so amazing. Yeah, I'm gonna put that glossy coat on it. I wanted to know where it came from. Well, it's so the It is said that they reported all this stuff. Whether that's true or not, I don't know, but we'll ever know. I know that I know that they reported at least cattle mutilations and a few other odd things happening. They reported seeing lights, they reported seeing UFOs actually not just lights

but actual actual spaceship. And the reason they gave for leaving the house was that they just couldn't sleep well and that right, wasn't that I thought that was authenticated? Were things that were keeping them up at night and that they from the house And yeah, oh, I just heard that they had a hard time sleeping and when they finally did get to sleep, they would have nightmares, and then like the fantastical code of that was like

shared nightmares. Yeah, but I don't believe that. I do believe that probably they mean it's totally legit to say like possibly they were, but also possibly some billionaire came and was like, here's a bunch of money for They were like, I know problem, Yeah, I think that business is doing really bad. Take all that money. Well exactly, and I think the I think they got out of the cattle business because the parcel that they moved to

is there was only three quarter acres. Yeah, so it's not really not not enough to do anything like that. And so they probably just sold off the remaining cattle that hadn't been you know, hadn't been invistrated by aliens, and that moved off to Jensen on the to their new smaller parcels. Yeah. So when reportedly from who knows where, when the Shermans bought the property, they got to the house, I guess they bought it sight unseen. I don't know why they didn't see this stuff. I'm not sure if

that's the case or not either. But by the way, we know where they moved from. It was in the area, I thought, Yeah, Gwand is actually from the area. She was from very close by. Terry was originally from Arizona, and he I saw allusions to the fact that he had he was in the cattle business before they moved there. But somebody. In the description that I read, it was like, oh, in his striving cattle business, which I would like, didn't

understand what that meant. So wait, is this He worked on a ranch and had four cows of his own and decided he was going to branch out. Because I don't know if you guys have ever heard this, but there's among my my dad's generation this idea of retiring and becoming the gentleman farmer or the gentleman rancher. Have you ever heard this? I'm going to I'm just going to get out of the race, and all I'm gonna

do is live on the land and raise animals. And they'll call me path and they'll they'll call me whatever, and I'll sit on the porch and I will order my ranch minions around and they will do the work, and I will be brilliant at it. That's kind of what I got the idea this guy might have important. The report that I read was like very interesting. It was that he had a quote unquote striving cattle business.

Again I don't understand what that means, but that he had some very unusual and like potentially lucrative cattle breeding that he had. I don't know what that means. That the deepest I ever have seen it gone into I think, I know, what do you know? IVF fertilization. IVF really was getting big in the nineties in all manner of livestock because the technology had finally come along far enough

that it was cheap and viable. And I remember in the nineties suddenly they were talking about the fact that the bull was no longer going to exist because instead you had a cooler and that was where you got everything for for all your halfers. That's pretty handy. But you know, interestingly, speaking of that, according to one story that I read about the Sherman's um, they had four balls. Yes, I saw that to have you heard that story? Yeah, yeah,

that's that's a great one. It's like one day they were they were headed off the town, they walked past this the shed would had these four bulls pinned up, and Terry said to Gwen and said, wow, you know, and they they had lost some cattle already. Says to Gwenna, says, well, sure nothing happens to our bulls, because I would really do us in. And the when they got back from town, they looked at the same pan and the bulls were gone. But guess where they found them a trailer. All four

crammed into a trailer. Horse trailer, horse trailer. Yeah, just all four had been stuffed into trailer. That seems rather paranormal. Yeah, stuffing four bulls into a trailer. So okay, So the house back to the house they bought again who knows, SI unseen maybe not um. But apparently when they arrived they found that there were dead bolts everywhere. So it's just like everywhere. And I've heard this, dude, I was

just talking dead bolts. Are you just talking bolts? I think no. I think a bolt as in a sliding bolt lock, not a dead bult, like you have a key dead bolt in your door. Okay, I like bolts better. It makes more sense. Um. But apparently, like like everywhere, like on every single door, interior and exterior, including kitchen, cabinet doors and and everything like that. And also on both sides of the doors, not only were they trying to sometimes keep things out, but also sometimes they were

trying to keep things in, which is where. And there's a thing about the big steaks. Oh yeah, the giant iron steaks that they found on either side of the house that we're connected to giant metal chains to the house they had, goes Er is a pet? Ghostbusters? Or where were the dogs from that movie? That's who they had. Okay, yeah, so I mean that's weird. If that was real, it's weird. I don't think it's real, but if it was, it was weird. Yeah. Well, get that that article that they

were interviewed for. And again I don't know how to I don't know if it's pronounced desiree or desirette news but whatever, but that was a think in nineties six and they interviewed the Sherman's for that article, and they talked about all the weird stuff that was going on, and they also talked about when they bought the house and how they had to do a little bit of remodeling and renovating before they moved in. They didn't mention a word about any of that. No, although I don't

know that I would. I don't know. But if you're talking about how weird your life is on this weird, weird ranch, when you're seeing weird phenomena and lights and UFOs and dead cattle and everything like that, you know, you would think you would bring up the fact that there were bolts, you know, everywhere in your house. So it's it's kind of a weird thing. So I'm kind of so I think somebody might attack this one onto

the mystery. Yeah, So, as we previously mentioned, UM Bigelow utah LLC does own the property now they bought and um publicly Bigelow utah LLC is known as the National Institute for Discovery Science. It's also owned by Mr Bigelow Um. And he bought it because he was very interested and still is, I guess, very interested in bringing science to the investigation of paranormal activity. Basically, he wants to prove

scientifically that paranormal stuff happened. So he had heard about the stuff that was going on the ranch and thought, I will buy that for myself, thank you. And now he owns it and like four people I think are allowed really on Skinwalker Ranch. It's been like was basically shuttered at this point. Yeah, I think it is. Well, I just mean like there are investigators that he's hired

for the NAW few are on site. Yeah, and they have they installed cameras everywhere and they said, you know, night one of camera installation, they saw stuff, and I've seen pictures of this and I don't see anything. Yeah, but okay, I from what a little I've been able to find out about their findings, and apparently they were on that site for years with cameras and everything, and there were I guess there was still cattle left there.

There's I think there's a caretaker living on the ranch, and so there was still there was more cattle desks, and also some some strange floating lights. And that's the only thing that those guys observed, and all those years of observation was those two things. All the other stuff they didn't see it. And they had cameras everywhere and people everywhere, Yeah they did. Yeah. And I just want to say one thing about the Sherman's too visit. So

many strange things were happening. You would think that when you left the house to go out in the pasture, you would take a camera with you think you would think that, or maybe a video recorder, don't you think, Yeah, the worst camera you own probably, yeah, because that's always yeah, No, I I agree, Yeah, I totally agree with that. There's also the matter of the utes or utes. How would you write I think utes? I think it's Utes. Yeah,

they're the predominant tribe in the area. Um. And they apparently had identified roughly four hundred of this four hundred and four acres or whatever land as a no go zone for a really really long time generations generations. Yeah, pretty much for as long as they've been in the area. Reportedly, they refer to the area as the path of the skin Walkers and skin walkers I'm realizing right now we haven't actually said what skin walkers are. Yeah, I'm sorry, Steve.

None of us. Skin walkers are shape shifters. Um. Some places you'll see them describe just powerful spirits, but really the original skin walkers are actually, um, do you have a you just took a breath, like you might be able to help me with this lushi. It's a Navajo word, which isn't for a Navajo, which I've actually heard that the Use don't actually have any legend of skin walkers, and that's actually from the like the Hopies or the naval,

it's from the Navajo. Yeah. Yeah, well, so there's a lot I'm not going to go too far into the native history of that area, but essentially the Utes and the Navajo were not friends for a really long time they were kind of friends and they weren't. And then the Utes helped the Americans get rid of the Navajos, and then Americans were like, nah, just kidding, screw you. I gave him like a tiny little parcel of land and that was that. Um. But there's some crossover in

the sort of area traditions. Hopefully no Navajo are listening or are listening right now, given to an extent to which we just you know, mispronounced and misrepresented all of the history that's happened there. The skin walkers were powerful witches who could transform themselves into animals. Um, think about the werewolves and Twilight. Think about it, think about it, think about it. Nope, okay, okay, to see us, yes, just just nod. Huh huh. Yeah. So that's that's what

a skin walker is. I guess. Yeah, you're welcome everyone. There's been legends about that kind of thing and all kinds of society. It's not just the Indians. I mean, you know, we've got we've got our werewolves and stuff like that. Yeah. And speaking of the Utes, there is on the reservation, they've got this little newspaper called the Bulletin so I called them. I was going to I did. I did call them, did you actually I did. Unfortunately I didn't think to call them until just today. They

haven't called me back. I got a beat the you Bolton, which is a small, little dinky newspaper on the reservation, and I talked to a guy whose name I can't remember now, but I actually expan. I didn't talk to him. I got his voicemail and I left him a message and uh, and I said, I said, hey, you know

and sell the mystery podcast and skin Walker Ranch. And then I said, um, legend has it that the utes are really really terrified at the ranch, And I was wondering if you could just let me know if that's true or not. So we may just like record a little add onto this we may never hear from kind of hoping we never hear from them. Well, yeah, because I think that what the voicemail we're going to get back is is just laughter. Yeah, I think so, I wife, yea.

I wish I had thought about this earlier, because it would have you know, if I called him last week, maybe I would have a call back by now. But you called way more places than I did. I didn't even think to call places. So, yeah, it's just that they're they're right over in Utah. You know, it's not that far away, you know, And I just that it would be interesting. I actually had an idea that I tracked down the names of some of the immediate neighbors

of the ranch. But it's really really hard these days to get a phone number. It's obscenely hard. Yeah. You know, do you find all these sites that has that have these guys for money. Yeah, as you click on the phone where it's really annoying, and so it sounds as if it's a membership. It's every freaking phone number. This is why private private investigators are so expensive. Yeah, do you guys want to talk about theories? Oh please, let's yeah. Okay,

the theories are in bullport form, bullet point form. You're ready. It's all real, Okay. I'm buying that none of it is real. I'm buying that some of it's real and some of it isn't. Pretty much covered the basis. Yeah, those are those are the theories. Yeah, I think, yeah, that's about it. Float. I think the parts that are real are the dead cattle and the floating lights that

probably happened that's about it. So can I bring up something about the story that I couldn't ever pin down until I I couldn't figure out from the retellings what was going on until I actually looked into the real math of what happens with livestock. Okay, numbers into this. I know Terry, it's Terry. No, Terry's the wife, thank you. Terry's a guy in a girl's name. I getting confused. Garrett. Terry come, you know, makes these reports that he has

a herd of eighty head of cattle. Now, as Joe and I had talked about, there is this possibility that forehead were bulls, but we're going to ignore that. That means that he because he's in a breeding operation. He has all halfers. They're breeding cows, so he is in

the business of making new cows. Doesn't sound like he had a big operation to start with, and I questioned his ability to raise that much, that that big of a herd, because, like I said, I think he had a very small herd to begin with, and then he tried to expand quite rapidly as ranches go. As pretty small it is, it's about a half mile square. It's not a huge area. But it is when you consider that he might have had a couple hundred yards square to keep cows on because people do that and you

just feed him. But if he's letting him free range. But my point is he was also into these what was what was the phrase that you you used your you saw to describe it devon his practice revolutionary breeding. Okay, so he is into trying to breed as many cows as possible, and he's probably trying to uh get impregnant every one of the heifer's acceptable normal law is of livestock from still birth to post weening is three to

seven percent. That means that three to seven of the animals that are born are either gonna be born dead or going to die before they're weaned off. Okay, eighty had a cattle in a year, that equates to I don't know, about two to five cats in a year. He says that in the two years he lost, about sixteen had a cattle, which means that possibly at least half of what he lost was just normal death due

to the fact that animals die absolutely. And then there's of course, you know, there's again there's predators, predators, Yes, uh, cows are stupid and they fall into ravines and die and or they just you know, I mean, I've I've seen this. Cows they step, they put their feet between two rocks and then they move the wrong way and they break their leg and they fall down. And because their cows and they can't yell for help, nobody comes

to help them. They just die and then something eats them. So, like, I mean, I understand, sixteen head in two years out of eighty head is kind of a big and that's about ten percent a year loss from just natural predation. But when you add in the fact that he's probably losing head because of the fact that, you know, young animals just naturally die, it's not such a crazy number.

But that's what I love about this story is that on the Internet they constantly say, and in two years he lost this many cattle, Like, it's not really that man like you right off cattle because animals die. Yeah, I think that he wasn't a sheep farmer. Those things die faster than cows. Yeah, And again, I think he tried this and he maybe found out that it wasn't that profitable, and maybe he found out that it was just a lot of work. And they didn't really like

it that much. Yeah, have you ever seen how you have to artificially inseminate a a heifer? I don't even want to think. It's not a pleasant thing. It's really gross. So he may have realized that that was not the way he wanted to do business. Yeah, I think that's it's It's entirely possible. A lot of people, like you know, would even fantasize about being ranchers and then actually tried to discover that it sucks, it's a lot more work

than you think. And then, luckily for you in your particular case, a billionaire shows up at your doorstep with a big fat check. It buys you out. That's my whole thing. Like, I'm I'm totally on the side of this is completely fake, and I mean I'm on this side normally with these kind of stories. But I just gotta wonder where, at what point did this family say, dude,

this blows. What do we do and then suddenly just say, you know what, screw We're just gonna tell everybody what they wanted to hear anyway and let it just get out of hand. I just wonder where and when that happened to them because you never hear you can can't talk to him, nobody will will ever interview. Now it doesn't happen. So it's just it's one of those things.

Breaking wonder they maybe just deliberately put the reports out to attract some attention, and maybe, you know, bring I think that they might have done it initially just to screw with the locals, because these people are dumb and they're talking about these all these stories from the seventies and the eighties and not realizing how much traction that was going to gain, and then just you know, we'll we'll just keep having fun with it, and we'll keep

making bigger and taller tales, and then all of the sudden it's you know, it's like these idiots who write these books and they say that their true life books and it turns out their total farces. Yeah. I don't I don't really think the Sherman's made up all that stuff. I think I mean, obviously they're on. I think they made up a fair amount that was the seed for

this whole story. Yeah, yeah, no, definitely, definitely, And uh, you know, they told a fair number of of you know, strange lights in the sky and not just strange lights, but actually seeing actual, honest to god uf bows, not just a light, but an actual, an actual little ship. And right there that the actual ship part. I know that they are very they're not very creative because it was an RV. Yeah, one of the space ships was

an RV. They said it looked like an RV, that they were sure it was an RV, that it lifted off of the ground and just cruised away, and it had that what was that was that RV brand that the the one that had the kangaroo on the side and the brown and yellow stripes to either of you remember that, Like, I totally expect that from spaceballs. It

makes me think the one for spaceballs. That's what they saw. Yeah. Yeah, but so yeah, they reported some UFO activity and stuff like that, but nothing like you know, no portals, uh no bulletproof wolf. Yeah. No. I think there's a lot of additions that have happened to the story. Many many people out there, and you know in internet land who are just happy to graft all kuyds of you know, incredible bs a story. As we have seen with many of the stories that we've put out and then correspondence,

we've gotten back about them. We see this, Yeah, we do, so I'm pretty happy with this speaking correspondence. Let's give them how to get hold of yeah for real. So you can find some of our research as well as listen to the show, download episodes, merch, comment, oh, and find merch and donate. Patreon buttons are all on the website. Um so that website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com.

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financially of the show. Can you tell? It was Pledge Week on and pure And I think for this part of this, part of the whole thing, and I'd like to do is have you know they have Pledge week and MP are they always have the ringing phones in the background. Yeah, dude, I am not stitching that together. So you can donate if you would like. Um, you basically just say, I'm gonna know there are instructions there. You just had to Patreon dot com, slash thinking sideways

and all of the information is there. Uh. And all of that having been said, I think we're gonna skin walk out of here. Really, I'm gonna float out of here, skin walk. I'm going to turn into a wolf right now. Okay, whatever, everybody, bie guys,