Thinking Sideways: Jean Spangler

out what her mystery was. Okay. So she was a dancer and a model who had also done some bit parts in movies in the late nineteen forties, and she lived in Los Angeles. She lived in a two bedroom apartment with her mother, Florence, and her five year old daughter Christine. Didn't she also live with her brother in Lawns.

I've seen that little that little nugget out there. But apparently her brother was actually killed in the war, and so they were still in good terms with her sister in law, Sophie, and Sophie was from it was so Sophie wasn't living there, but she was staying there. She was from in from out of town on a visit. Yeah, and so yeah, that would have been pretty crowded to have everybody living there a full time, you know, But

I think it happens. I think that's what I said, like on the wiki page for this and had that on there. I think that was inaccurate. A lot of a lot of inaccurate stuff in Wikipedia. Yeah, we're not going to Okay, that's back to our story here. At the time that our story begins October nine, Jeans Spangler was twenty six years old. Yeah, I know, and she had she had been in eight different movies, all of them uncredited. Yeah, I know. The shame. She had been

married briefly to a guy named Dexter Benner. They divorced in nineteen six and they had a baby between a child between them, Christine, and there was a nasty court battle, and she eventually was awarded custody of the daughter and support. Well didn't she have to? Wasn't an Initially they awarded custody to the husband, but he was such a jerk and kept denying her visitation that eventually said yeah, Well, the court eventually sided with her and they changed their

mind and gave custody. Hurt. Actually, the divorces interesting. They were married for like four months. Initially, they got married when she was nineteen, and they were married for four months before they separated, and then saw each other on and off for five years before they divorced. Yeah, come on, guys, come on, I know that's sad. Kids today, yesterday, Okay, back to our mystery. On October seven, Jean left her

daughter with with her sister in law, Sophie. Her mother was out of town on visiting relatives in Kentucky, so she said that she had to go see her X about child support, which she apparently was laid on. Oh I heard that she wanted to increase the Yeah, I heard both of those things. Yeah. She also said that after that she was going to go work on a night shoot for a film, and uh, well, long story short,

she never came back. She never returned home, and no, to this day, nobody knows what happened to her, or probably somebody does, but they're not talking. Yeah. So the next day, Sophie called the police. They took a report. They didn't do anything because they figured, you know, it's Hollywood. People are people are party and all. Probably yeah, yeah, so obviously they're not gonna waste their time. And again

Sophie is the sister. Sophie is a sister, just making sure who was watching Christine the daughter, Christine's daughter exactly. So the day after that Sunday ACTO or nine, Jean's purse was found in Griffith Park by a park ranger. The straps on one side had been torn off, would suggests some sort of violence. Uh, And so this galvanized

the police into action. The next day they got together a bunch of cops, like sixty cops and the hunters plus volunteers and started combing Griffith Park and they found nothing. I think the search one on for three or four days. Well, and Griffith's Park is a bit was a big park. It was like it's I think it's more than that. I just remember it. It was just a huge area to have to search. And I don't think they searched the entire park. This is at one specific Yeah, I'm

sure they comed the area around. Yeah, I'm sure they won the ways, but yeah, that I mean searching that entire park. Oh my god, they'd be like searching Forest Park like yeah, it's huge, Yeah, it's really huge. Okay back to the purse, Uh, it had no money, and except for a silver dollar which was her lucky charm.

Yeah fail. Yeah, but her sister law said that she had had no money and when she left on Friday, So it doesn't look like roberts a motive and she of course see that was when you're doing things like having bit parts and as an extra in the movie, you're not really making a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. So everything there was an I D. And the usual stuff you'll find your purse. The big, the big out of interest was a note which read Kirk can't wait

any longer going to see Dr Scott. It will work best this way while mother is away, and it ends with a comma, as if she'd been interrupted while writing writing it. Although I've seen a photograph of the note and I can't really tell. It looks to me like it could just easily be a period that Yeah, so I don't really know. Although you would think you would sign a letter, yeah, I was, I was, I was taking there would at least be initials at the bottom and signs nothing now yeah, so it does have a

certain unfinished quality to it. On October twelve, this was the Tuesday following or not excuse me, The Wednesday, following the LP you got a surprise phone call from none other than Kirk Douglas. Kirk Douglass. You don't know Kirk douglast, I don't know why. Why do I know Kirk Douglas. She's the father of Michael Douglas Spartacus Pass to Glory PASTI glory. You are so killing me. The generational gap really is making me feel old right now. Yeah, he was.

He was the one who was in Spartacus, not Michael Douglas, was not the one that it was Kirkuk. So yeah, then I know who he is. Yeah, okay, alright. It's also sometimes just fun to do that blank stare with you guys, so we both freak out. Not nice, it's fun, it's fun. I did have heard of Kirk. Yeah. So anyway, Kirk DA says, you all know it was a famous movie star. So he phones him up just out of the blue and tells him he totally was not the

Kirk that the note was addressed to. So he's just like, hey, l A. P D. What's up. Yeah, that Kirk that it's not me? Yeah, okay, that's suspicious. Maybe Yeah. James Spangler had had a bit part of him movie recently that Douglas started and called young Man with a Horn, also starring Laura McCall and Doris Day, and apparently Delas said that he had heard about it. Somebody that he knew that he was acquainted with, had read about this, recognized the name checked she was in the movie, and

mentioned it to him some studio exactly. Otherwise, Yeah, those guys are probably always putting out little fires and stuff like that, you know, so they probably said, you said, hey, you know, talk to you Laura, then call the cops and get get out ahead of this story. So I'm sure, yeah, this is I mean, this is before like us Weekly right then, like Kirk Douglas or well, there there's always been those those Hollywood dirt rags though, where they're always

trying to find stuff about people. So you I can imagine that they, as Joe put it, they're they're putting out fires way ahead of time before those guys can even get to Yeah, although I guess it seems like the sort of thing that like you would figure out a way, like your publicity manager would probably figure out a way to like on the low down and let the l a p. D. Know hey, we're just trying to get out had this point, you know, it's not him, instead of like personally phoning the l A p D

And being like, hey, guys, this is totally unsolicited, but it's not me. Well it's it's really interesting too. So he phones, like the senior investigator and I'm sure you got some you know, some secretary or something or something like that. Can I tell him he's calling Kirk Douglas. Yeah. Yeah, by the way, as your refrigerator running. Uh so, uh he just he told the police that he remembered talking to her on the set a little bit, but that other than that, he didn't know her personally at all.

When Jean's mother got back from Kentucky, she told police that Jean had actually dated a guy named Kirk and had gone out with him at least twice, but that she didn't know his last name and had never met him and knew nothing about him. So that was it. So it could have been another Kirk. Oh that's right, that's right, because this guy he always he stayed in the car and she out and met him, so the

mother never could get a good look at him. Well, on the other hand, if I were famous actor Kirk Douglas. I don't know that. I would be like, you probably want to keep it on the day. Yeah, I wouldn't be like flaunting it around. I don't know. I don't know what his like marital girlfriend status was at the time, but I believe he didn't have one. I don't know. I haven't done any research on him. Actually, I mean I did a little bit, and I covered some some

unsavory thing. I'm sure we'll get into that later, but I wasn't really got to bring that up very much because I was so and then this is this episode is not about Kirk Douglass anyway. Next scept his behavior was my suspicious Gina. As far as dating, apparently she was dating somebody knew at least a couple of weeks before her disappearance. Um and but it turned out that the cops tracted and he turns out he was a writer named Peter Brooks, so nobody named Kirk. All right,

that's the high level part of it. Now, I'm gonna go I can get in a little bit more detail without being tedious about it than nothing, of course, I know. So I'm gonna give you a little a little brief timeline here there her seventh five o'clock to five thirty, and I've seen both of them, depending on where you read about this. She leaves the apartment, she's gonna go see her ax and then gonna go to a movie. Shoot. Uh,

six o'clock. She's seen at the farmer's market at Third and Fair Fact, which is about eight hundred two thousand feet in north of her apartment, so pretty close by. And there was a clerk there who saw her hanging around, said she was there for around ninety minutes, just browsing, started hanging out, and the clerk said that he got the impression that she was waiting for somebody. I didn't talk to her, but just got that impression. And that's

how do you get that? Okay, Well, I don't understand that. If it's a farmer's market, and I've been to farmers markets, what do people do. They wander from booth to booth and they check out the wares and the goods. So what I don't get is how does that infer or that I'm waiting for someone? I mean, I mean she was probably like looking at her watch, or look checking

the door regularly or something like that. I mean, I think that what we classify as a farmer's market isn't Whether it is classified as a farmer's market in the mid forties late I don't think. I don't think that that's the same thing. I don't think it's the same

sort of like street hair situation. I'm not really sure, wrong, but you know in l A they have that famous it's not like a farmer's market, but it's kind of a it's a mall that's attached to what used to be a farmer's market, and it's it's booths and stuff like that, but it's really it's like lots of storefronts together. I can't remember what it's called, right, and I'll be honest, called the farmer's market place is still in the same spot. It's still called the farmer's market. I don't know if

it looks the same. It looks it looks kind of demolished, but it looks like some of the buildings are kind of old. There's a lot of new construction around it, but it looks like at least a few of the buildings are old wooden buildings. Yeah, I mean I think that, Yeah, I think we're talking about the same kind of place. Maybe maybe to the farmer's market. Maybe it's not, but it's you know, it's it's like booths. It's kind of more like a boardwalk, I think, is maybe the way

that I would describe it. Lots of like storefronts, not like somebody's just like brought their little car to food and like set it up under a tent, which is kind of what I think of with like a modern day farmers you know. So I think you can kind of say like it's all surrounded, you know, it surrounds

a square kind of area. It's easy to just kind of be loitering and wandering, and especially if you're doing it for ninety minutes and you really don't ever buy anything and you kind of just are looking like it's interestedly in things, I think it's easier to like you. I think it's possible to say I'm sorry all that to say. I think it's very possible to say it's it'd be pretty easy to say that person was just waiting for somebody. Yeah, long explanation, sorry, alright. Seven Back

to our timeline. Seven o'clock, She calls home to check on her daughter and says that she'll be home later and talked to Sophie of course. Yeah, so obviously from a pay phone in the Farmer's market, because she didn't leave there until about seven thirty Okay, by the time she left, of course, it would be dark. I checked sunset on that day. It was six thirty pm, let's be specific. Yeah, and not that you know, not that it matters all that much, but you know, it's just

easier to murder people when it's dark out. Yeah, okay. Her next sighting was six hours later October, the wee hours of October eight, Saturday morning, one thirty am, she was seeing at a table in a restaurant called the Cheese Box at Sunset and Laurel Canyon Um sitting with the dark like a tall neat man as he was described, with dark hair, thirty thirty five years old. And by the way, the location of the Cheese Box is about

two miles north of her apartment, so far away from home. Yeah, she might have got a ride, cut a bus, but she could have easily walked it in that time. How I'm doubting she did. She was still at the Cheese Box. Apparently at two thirty am a different eye wouldness saw her there. But she was sitting sitting at a different table and arguing with with a couple of guys. And of course, let's some of these sightings. Let's let's face it might not have been her after yeah, yeah, after yeah.

So I'm I'm pretty convinced the guy at the farmer's market, since she lifts up close by, I probably knew her, it was familiar with so that was probably an accurate one. So anyway, early that morning, it's just kind of vague. She A gas station attendant reported that a convertible with a man and a woman pulled in for gas, and of course, at this time, her disappearance had not yet hit the papers, so he had but apparently she reportedly looked like Jeanne, and the guy in the car said

that they were going to go to Fresno. And yet as they drove away, the woman yelled, how the police follow this car? So the attendant called the cops, but the cops were not able to find the car. It probably was a joke. You know, is your refrigerator running? Really? I mean, you know, it's like early morning. She's probably drunk and just like think this would be whole area.

It's really like who's gonna how are they gonna? Yeah, I think that probably that stuck in his mind a little bit, and finally when he picked up the papers and saw her picture heard about the disappearance, he started his memory. His memory probably played a little trick on him there. But then at the same time, maybe it was her. I'm doubting it. So it's Saturday, same Saturday,

somewhere between six pm and ten pm. Her purse is dropped at the Ferndale entrance to Griffith Park, which is three and a half miles northeast of the cheese Box, and the timeline for that particular the one was. But the guy who found it I think his name was Henry Angle. He was a park ranger, and he didn't find it until Sunday, the day after. And so I'm not sure why he's so sure it's between six and ten.

I mean, maybe he was by there at at six pm on Saturday and didn't see it there and then and then maybe perhaps they closed the park at ten o'clock and shut the gates. I don't know, And that's the only way I can think of that he knew that if they closed the gates it would have been there and they would have seen it when they closed the gates. Well, I don't think it now. I don't think it was right by the gates. It was about ten feet inside the entrance here. So it just seems

like that. I mean, you do a patrol, like if you close the gates to a park, you you close the gates. But but you know, I mean gates to a park. I doubt mean that the thing is got a cyclone fence around it, and it's a tall chain link fence. It's probably just bars across the road. But any any goofball can walk by or stop and throw something into the bushes in totally totally. So yeah, I think that I think that this this is kind of shaky. And also I went and looked at the park entrance

on Google street View. You know, you know me, I always have to do that every story. I didn't see any evidence of massive, massive chain link fences or anything like that. Well, I mean a park that big. I mean, trying to close a park like that off, you forget it. How you can close parks like that? You know they do this with Washington Parker for Forest Park in Portland closed the roads so that car traffic can't get through, but pedestrian traffic there's no So they just don't even

try anymore. It's not worth it, Okay. Next to our timeline, October nine, nine am, a Fresno man saw her in a in a bar in Fresno with a man, and so apparently once again, so this is October nine, she still has not hit the papers. Apparently she was saying she was his nine am. She's sitting in the bar with a guy and said something on the order of like, you know, I just had the worst night of my life. I don't she said that to this guy or if he overheard her saying it. I think I think he

overheard her. Uh, And so I don't really, I don't really believe Again, this guy, this guy was hanging out the bar, probably had had a few of himself at nine a less seriously, that might be one reason the police discounted this and didn't take it too seriously. Okay, So anyway, that same day the purse is found, and of course that guess the police all hot and bo there and they started to search the next day, Monday, October.

That same day, October ten, David ogul Uh, who was a guy that Jean reportedly dated for a while or hung out with at least he disappeared too. He was an associate of an l A gangster named Mickey Cohen, another one of his another one of the gang, Frank Nicole, had managed about a month before. But these guys actually had reasons to vanish. They were under indictment. Trying to remember what they were indicted for. Conspiracy was the official

chart for that. I don't know. Conspiracy to what you know, I mean, conspire about all sorts of things. Hard to tell. May I remember seeing that and looking at it, to the life of me, remember what it was. Yeah. October eleventh, Jean was cited by three three waitresses at a restaurant in Monterey. You guys know where water is, right, California? Yeah, somewhere in California. I just wanted to make sure we

were talking, still talking about California. Still in California. But that's that's a ways up the coast from l It's almost to San Francisco. Well, I mean it's not as though you can't like drive that far. I mean technically drive from Portland to l A in one day. Yeah, Yeah, I wouldn't want to try to remember the speed of travel of cars in the roads at that time. But given a couple of days l A to the Bay Area.

I'm not just because we go to Portland, l A. In a day now doesn't mean that was the case before. But to say, like it seems impossible that she could have made a depressn terray like and a half. Yeah, even without inter State five, it could be done. So her next setting October twelfth, so somebody reported that he saw her at a bus depot in Stockton. I actually don't know where Stockton is, California, central central California, like

just like maybe a hundred miles east of San Francisco. Okay, yeah, yeah. Of course on that same day that the famous movie guy Kirt Doutlist called the police up its where it totally wasn't him in that note. Next day, October, she sided Geane. That is a sided in North Hollywood by Shirley Anne Morris, who was a thirteen year old girl who knew Gene. Apparently they were friends, and so this

might be a more reliable sighting. Although what she was doing hanging out in North Hollywood I don't know, But apparently Shirley saw her in a car with an older looking guy, and she looked nervous and frightened. I bet Shirley was an actress. Don't you think she was also like a bit actress? Don't you think? I mean? I think I thought she was a schoolgirl. But hey, maybe maybe that's how they knew each other from the movies. From she that she had done some bit parts in movies,

that she had also been a bit part. Maybe Jean played her mom once they but that might be a more reliable sighting. I don't know. And after that, no, no major sightings reported. In October eighteenth, the police called off the investigation. Yeah, they said they believed that she had just taken off and was ten days later, right, that let's be they didn't. They didn't really start their

investigation until the ninth, nine days later. Yeah cool. Yeah, Hey, guys, if I ever disappear, I want you to make sure that police look for me for longer than nine days. We'll make sure they go at least ten. That seems reasonable is an acceptable number. Yeah, I just see it now. We're we will not let you quit. We will not

let you abandoned her until tomorrow. As time went by, they continue to receive reports of sighting from all over the sightings of Jane from all over the country, as tends to happen, she was also like an attractive but fairly nondescript white female. Yeah, I would say that would be very easy to mistake her for a lot of other people. Yeah. He was looking at the pictures of her from the number of movies that she was in, and she was probably great as an extra because she

didn't have a defining look. She's not going to steal the scene from the main star. You change your hair, she looks completely different. You change your makeup, she looked completely different. I'm looking at somebody had a collage of her photos, and she didn't look the same in any of them. Yeah, so I don't I don't put a lot of stock in any of these. She was seen as far away as Mexico City, and in nineteen fifties she was supposedly seen with Davy Ogel and Frank Nicole

in El Paso, Texas. That makes sense. I actually really like that one. Yeah, but I have holes with it, but I'm sure we'll talk. Yeah, I take that one with a green of salt. But well, we'll cover that. Why why I take that with a grain of salt later on when we talk about the theories. Yeah, so what was she up to that night before we get into the theories that the police, as you know, she was going to go check, go see the X, and

then go make a movie. Police checked with the X and he said he hadn't seen her in weeks, and his new wife back up his alibi. They also checked her story that she was going to be filming on a movie set that night, and they checked apparently with all the movie companies around town, the Screen Extras Guild, etcetera. And apparently now she wasn't scheduled to work on any movies at night, and they weren't actually doing any movies that night apparently not. Yeah, and this this was back

in the day too. They didn't They didn't do as much location filming back in the old days, especially I think probably at night, so they did a lot more studio stuff. That's what the backlot is for. One of the thing that they managed to unearth is they talked to a girlfriend of hers who said that Jean had told her that she was pregnant three months pregnant, and that led to speculation that when she left on Friday.

She was actually going to go out and get an abortion, which is why she told all these lives about seeing the X and making a movie, which pretty standard in that that time frame because it was illegal. Though I don't know why you would loiter around a farmer's market for ninety minutes waiting for somebody. Yeah, but sure, yeah, that's not normally where you meet the doctor. Yeah, all is go to the kindly, the kindly farmer abortionist guy

over there. So let's talk about some theories. A big time theory is remember the note said I'm going to see Dr Scott and other than everybody's the question on everybody's mind as well, was Dr Scott an abortionist? And did she die in in a bosched abortion? And to me, I don't really buy this because the movements that night suggests that she wasn't going up. I mean, you don't hang out in the farmer's market like you say, for

ny minutes. And then there was a six hour gap between the farmer's market and the cheese box at one thirty that morning, and the cheese box is pretty much confirmed sighting. Is that true? I think so. I think so, but I'm not I'm not a convinced, but I was gonna say I questioned it because it's kind of like the guy at ninety im in the bar. It's a bunch of people in a bar. Yeah, And there's been times when I was out having a couple of drinks and I wasn't sure if I saw Joe. But wasn't

it the waiter that it was? The one thirty am sighting was actually the restaurant manager, believe patron. Yeah, somebody's sober, So that's that's I put some weight on that, I guess. But still, assuming that was her, then there was plenty of time to perform an abortion. But she was seen alive and well at one thirty am. The other thing I don't I don't get is why would you dump the purse in the park rather than throwing it in a dumpster, especially with like a note like that, with

an incriminating note with your name on it. I don't know, man, Yeah, I mean, I mean I was you know, I would definitely have gone through the purse to make sure my phone and my phone number, my name, not nothing that points to me was in there. I mean, wouldn't you that that? Well? I think We've talked about this before. Logically,

from our perspective, that makes sense. But if you are frantic to cover up something, when people do frantic things, they don't think them through and they just stash something or you know, chuck it. Okay, but I guess, and the defense of Joe's thing and not to you know, like really go too deep and we don't. We don't. But you know, at this point in time, abortions were not illegal, but often botched. And if you are performing illegal abortions, it's likely that you've watched a couple, so

you probably kind of know what to do. You're not going to have that like me to freak out. This is Yeah, that's all I will say about it, and I think we should move on to the next. Just one of the things though, is that that's just one other thing that he did. He did an excellent job of disposing of her body, which is a lot tougher than getting rid of a purse. He did. He did a bang up job of doing that, and then he screws up all over the place. Unlikely. Yeah, okay, next

there her ex dexter Benner. They apparently there were some rumors of abuse during the relationship, and they had that nasty custody fight over the daughter, and he obviously wanted the doctor the daughter back, so murdering Jean would would be just the thing to do if you want to get your daughter back. But of course, as we said, he had an alibi, although it's not something I would consider rock solid, because you know your wife, your wife, wife might lie to Cara for you. Well, and here's

the thing. He and his new wife had been married exactly almo just a month give her take a little bit, so of course she's going to cover for him. As soon as I read the wife said she was with him all night long, like, of course that's what you would say. I'm not saying that she's lying, but that is just one of those things that just automatically I have to question because so often people do that and get proved that they're lying. Yeah, and so yeah, you

gotta take up with a grain of salt. But again, she lied about going to a movie, said so after after And that's why I'm not I'm not harping on it because she Jean has done some things that are throwing red flags everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I personal theory as to why she lied. Why why she lied about what she was gonna go do is that her mother was out of town, sister in law is visiting, and she's got a dump her kid on the sister in law. Yeah. Yeah,

she's a young, stressed mother. Yea, yeah, okay, But but she probably thought a little embarrassed because she probably felt like, you know, she's my guest, she's here in town, you know, and and I should really be hanging out with her, and instead I want to go out in party or I want to go out in a date. So she lied, She said, I've got to go see my accident. I've got to go work on them. Let's be honest. We've all got family members who were super nice people that

sucked to hang around. You're boring, Oh, why don't have to listen to you? All you talk about is this one thing? All you talk about is my dead brother, your dead husband and how much you miss him, Like you know, I'm sure that there there's a lot of expres myriad reasons why she might want to ditcher. Yeah, and so, but I think it was she just she just wanted to go out in party or do something. I don't know what. Um Anyway, so the X, I don't think she was going to see the ex and

I tend to believe a story. They certainly never found any evidence, yeah, to support any of that stuff. Next theory blackmail. So she's pregnant with Kirk slow Child, Kirk Douglas or Kirk somebody. The girlfriend who told the police that Jean was pregnant also said that Jean told her that she was going to be coming into a lot of money soon. I didn't say how, are why, but I would suggest that she was expecting a big blackmail payoff. Huh. I never saw that. Yeah, she had been blackmail is

somebody that would be a good motive to kill her? Yeah, of course, maybe she wasn't blackmailing. And maybe maybe Kirk to say or whoever had gotten her pregnant. He had a lot of money and a lot of and he basically paid her off, basically said, look, if you have an abortion or whatever, I'll pay you twenty five dollars to just just go away now. And so she and so maybe that's what it was. There was no blackmail

involved at all, that's possible. The problem is that still, you know, I'm just I'm sorry, I'm just sitting here mulling it over, and I guess it is possible. I've seen probably too many Hollywood drama things, whether they're real or made by Hollywood, where that that stuff happens. So I can see some creedings in it. I don't really add a lot of sock to it, but I can see some creedens in it. Yeah, of course, Yeah, it makes a lot more sense just to pay somebody off

rather than murder him, and because it's usually the easier route. Yeah, of course. One one problem with this is there still the whole question of the purse, the purse, the purse with the incriminating note with Kirk's name on it. Of course it maybe wasn't a guy named Kirk, I mean, who knows, but there was the incriminating person note. And and why throw I throw at the park? Why not

throw in the garbage? Can white white tear the handles off of it, which which would indicate set up a lot of red flags and which will indicate violence to the police. So that just doesn't make any sense. Okay, next theory, the black Dahlia killer did her in Oh, yeah, so that happened like about three years before. Of course,

you guys are familiar with that whole thing. This year, brunette actress, aspiring actress like like Gene Spangler was found murdered in a like in a vacant lot, and her body had been basically cut in two yeah, and it was hideous, like you know, And so they thought at first when she disappeared, they thought the black killer was still out there and the police, the police actually believed this, so though, um, wait, back up, So yeah, because my timeline,

I'm trying to remember the black doll you murders happened before Gene di Spirit. Yeah, okay, the other way, right, Okay, somehow in my head I'd mixed it up, so it's just double checking. Yeah. But and so the police were really thinking this. But as time went by and a hideously mutilated body didn't turn up, the theory was pretty

much put up to pasture. I don't know, I guess maybe you know you for three years to like perfect your craft or whatever, right, because I can kind of see like maybe the person who killed the black Dahlia is actually like has improved and got better at hiding

a body that could also probably not. The next theory is it was collateral damage in a mobya, because as we know, she was hanging out with this monster guy, and so she just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and there was a game one killing and she might have or they been cutting across fire, or maybe they just thought, well, she's a witness killer. So that's so that's a possibility. I'm not putting a little stock in that one. I don't. I

don't know. There's no evidence that she was actually still hanging out with that guy, because again she was she had a new boyfriend, and so I don't know that she was seeing that what's his name, Davy davy Ogula. Yeah, I don't, so, I don't. I don't really put on a stock in this one. The next one is those two guys at the cheese box restaurant that she was arguing with. I'm guessing maybe she won the argument and that really ticked them off. Yeah yeah, I kinda dead.

Yeah okay, oh yeah, you won the argument, but we get the last word. Bang. Next theory, Lieutenant Scott. So the police turned up another interesting thing from her past. About four years before, while husband was off at the war and in the Pacific, Gene and had an affair with a guy named it was like an Air Corps lieutenant. His name was his last name was Scott. I guess she called her Scotty and apparently he was abusive. She wanted to leave him. He's threatened to kill her if

if she did. She had actually managed to break it up, and last last time she saw him was in nine, four years before. There's no evidence that he became a doctor. Remember the notes that doctor going to see doctor Scott. Yeah, oh that's right, because the cops like poured through and interrogated every doctor whose name last name was Scott. I thought they poured over an interrogated every doctor, not just Scott's.

I thought they couldn't just hit every doctor. So they were after all the ones that had last name of Scott. But then the thing is that there's guys who do things on you know, on the slide that go by a code name. To Dr Scotty, he could mean anything, yeah, so's it could have been an abortionist, It could have been a dentist. I mean, it could have been who knows, Yeah, yeah, it could have been a vet. Yeah. Also, beside the fact that he wasn't a doctor, why would she go

to see the guy. She was afraid of him, Yeah, because he was a jerk, and she had stopped hanging out with him because, as you said, he was abusive. Yeah, okay, so much for Lieutenant Scott. Next theory, she ran away from home. And this, remember davey Ogel disappeared at the same time she did, was led people to speculate that perhaps they had left town together to start a new life. Yeah. Now, don't like it. No, I don't either. She was dating a new guy, for one thing, and apparently she was

happy about that, according to a witness. And I don't think she would have abandoned her daughter. I mean she called from the farmer's market. Yeah, I mean she exactly. She uh. I obviously cared about her daughter. Her daughter, she obviously if you read anything about or had a lot of shortcomings, I mean, you know. But well, the thing about Ogul is there's that one report that says that I think it was March of nineteen fifty is when they say that that she was quote unquote spotted

somewhere in Texas fast Okay. Well, the funny thing is, unless she did have the pregnancy terminated, she'd have been about six or seven months pregnant at that time, So you would think that whoever had seen her and said, oh yeah, that's Gene and wow she's super pregnant. Instead it was just oh yeah, there's Gene. Yeah she looked like she always did, you know, Slim Dancer's body beautiful as can be. Unless she wasn't pregnant and that girlfriend

was lying. I mean, it's totally possible, Like that's a very valid to theriend a girlfriend. Yeah, that's entirely possible. She was lying to Kirk too, to blackmail him. Maybe she just eating a lot of bond bonds. Yeah, yeah, three months. I mean you can't really tell, but well that's why I know it. Three months, but it's six and seven. You can't hide that. Yeah, but I I

guess I just generally assumed she wasn't actually pregnant. But hey, that's me highly possible she wasn't pregnant her mother after her mother got back and everything. Her mother, her mother also said that she would never abandoned her family, and so you know, you got you gotta believe her mother. Her mother obviously didn't know her that well because she was up to a lot of stuff that her mother wasn't like in on but well she's a twenty six year old. Of course you're going to do things that

you don't tell your parents about. I mean that's just kind of this standard operating proceeds. I don't think that's just like a twenties thing. I think your whole life, you kind of just do things and like generally your parents don't necessarily need to know about that. Very true. A lot of things and I don't tell my family about it. I mean they're safful things that my whole family doesn't know about me, like for example, this podcast. But yeah, they don't know about it. I never will.

Actually they probably will some day and when we become really famous famous. Oh that's right. Good point. Another problem I have with this theory that she ran off, either by herself or with Davey Oagel, is that she actually passed up a really good chance to make some money because her ex Dexter, who apparently was a plastics manufacturer, I had some money, wanted the daughter back, so she knew she was gonna blow down. And that means the

daughter goes back to Dexter. Then why wouldn't she approach Dexter and say hey, and I'll give me a couple of grand and I'll give custody back to you. And that's well, there's a point there, but that also again that just circles me back to him, because of course, once she disappears, the court re awards him custody of their daughter, and he goes right back to his same old behavior of the grandmother is trying to visit the daughter and he keeps blocking it, not letting her see her.

And I think that the mother tried to take some kind of legal action against him, at which point he just said oh, okay, great and left the state. Yeah, now he was gone. Good luck. He was sentenced to five days suspended in jail for for for not abiding by because because apparently it was the court ordered him to allow the grandfather grandmother to see the daughter, and then he continued to be obstructive, and so he was

sentenced to fifteen days in jail, not suspended. And that's when he took the wife and and the daughter and left the state and moved to Florida, where he lived until he was eighty seven years old. Um, so there's just no good theories about this. But another another theory that I have. That's not really one that you see all over the internet. Is that. Uh, she perhaps was she perhaps had a sideline. Let's remember she was broke, super broke. Perhaps and I hate to say this, but

perhaps she had a sideline to say, an escort. And she she was a dancer. She was a very attractive woman by I would say modern and classic standards. So it wasn't as if, you know, she couldn't have done that. I would also explain why she was sided with multiple of different men at the same location. Yeah, at night, it would all try Yeah, and then it would also explain why you would lie, right, you know, I want to tell people I'm gonna go I'm gonna go out

and do a little prostitute. You know, Mom may just think that. Yeah, she goes and she does these night shoots, you know, two or three days a week, and you know, the studio is paying her pretty decently for being an extra in a night shoot, so what the heck? And you know, conveniently, none of those movies that were actually getting made right or well, no, they cut my scene sorry,

which actually happens to people all the time. Yeah, I was in an extra movie years ago, and I finally, years later, got around to watching the movie to see if I could find myself in because when I went to the set, it was a big crowd scene. So I wore a bright orange T shirt even so I could never find myself. Yeah, that's they cut my scene. Damn it. They were like, you know, we use the scene except there was that idiot orange shirt. The orange shirt. Yeah,

it was. It was hilarious. It's huge crowd scene and it's like this, uh, this one guy, this roller coaster with George Siegel, Timothy Bottom. I have no idea that was never a blockbuster. Yeah, but there says one couple. They were kind of what's the sword on saying, kind of trashy looking and that kind of they kind of looked they were extras. They were among the extras that we were all extras and so and so there's a there's the guys with the bullhorns directing us around, telling

us where to go. And at the end, up the beginning of the first scene, she climbs up on his shoulders and she's like all going like this is the wave of her arms in the air on his shoulders and everything, and uh, and then we're done. They stay cut, you know, and then the guy with the bullhorn goes out says, that's really awesome and I'm really nice. Touch what you guys, did you gonna have to do that in every take, every text today? Good job? Stupid. Yeah,

I know that was a total total diversion there. Uh so, but as we know from our our our tends to research Jack the Ripper and my other things that if you if you engage back to the whole, she might have been an escort or prostitute kind of thing. Um, if you engage in that, well you run a chance that you're going to meet Mr. Serial killer. Well, and not even Mr. Serial killer. There's the crime of opportunity. Gentlemen who take upon those services aren't always in the

clearest frame of mind. And I mean that from bold They're intoxicated on something, whether it be booze or drugs, or they're not always a square in the head. I mean, there's just these things happen, and that's why that that that profession and I'm using that term loosely, but that profession is not joriously dangerous, that kind of is. Yeah, So I think that it's it's entirely possible if this guy.

I say, if she'd met up with a guy and the guy had wheels to get to to get to Griffith Park from there, if they were if she was still hanging out on Sunset where the cheese box was. To get to Griffith Park, it's a straight shot. You go east until you get to Western Avenue and they turn left, go north takes you straight there, and they're very easy. So you might have said, you know, let's let's go to some place a little more romantic than then Sunset Strip. Let's go up to Griffith Park and

then what's up there? Well, you know, once she realizes that things are kind of going south and that his intentions aren't so good after all, then she tries to get away from him. He grabs her purse, She rips the rips it loose, he drops it, chases her down, and that's the end of the story. And he doesn't bother going back for the purse. The only thing is the note. The note, well, the note doesn't make any difference.

This is a random dude. The still hasn't explained. It doesn't have to be though, I mean, it could just be a random something that she was writing to her friend that worked at the food cart at the at the the place. All. Yeah, well, but you know the other thing is that I know that this is gonna sound like I am just beating up on the Kirk Douglas theory again, But I just I really have a hard time letting go of that, only because of all

of the stories of his bad behavior. And we'll leave out the whole story about a rape that he supposedly did. But he was notorious for being a player and knocking women around. He was known for for being that guy, so you know, and he went to houses of ill repute supposedly on a regular basis. I could see him being one of those dudes. He's like, Hey, you're a

cute extra, don't you come to my trailer? And then when suddenly there's you know, a product of that union he's not doing, He's just like, well, well, I guess I could pay her off. You know what. No, I'm I'm not gonna pay her. I'm just gonna take care of this, or I'm gonna have somebody take care of it, which is then would give the guilty conscious why I would have Three days later, he called the cops. Know

it's would have been about five. Yeah, suddenly he's just you know, freaking out, like, oh my god, I didn't think this would be this, you know, in the news so big. I gotta do something about it. I just I have a really hard time letting go of what I read about him and their connections. Seems very slight, I admit, but it's really hard for me to let

go just from the things that I've read about him. Yeah, the uh, I mean, definitely, if you wanted to get ahead in Hollywood, if you're if you are an aspiring actress in those days, the casting couch was pretty much a given for almost every actress in those days. And so it was and probably it wasn't just a studio the studio big wigs that you had sex with. You probably in order to get an in have a connection and have sex with Kirk Douglas or some famous was the top dog on the pot. Yeah he was. He

was the man. Yeah, he was the Chuck Norris of the day. Oh my gosh, thank you, thank you, Chuck Norris. Can we can we move away from that? I'm sorry I brought that up. What's wrong with Chuck Norlash? Just keep going please? Right now? That we're done. Slandering Kirk Douglas. I guess I could wrap it up and you guys have any more thoughts? No, my slandering Kirk Douglas evidently was the only thing I had to say. Yeah, And

I just think it's a huge old mystery. It's a big volvable Joe thinks, big old Mr. Two I you know, I mean it may well be too that you never know who. I mean, because she was. She was in eight movies, uncredited of course, but I mean within eight whole movies. Yeah, had a total of four and a half minutes of film, if that much. But the thing about it is is in she was, she was attractive, and she probably attracted the attention of not just Kirk douglast,

but probably some other movie star types. And uh, you know, I mean she may have had some things going on with other other Hollywood actors and air duels. I mean, so yeah, So maybe it wasn't Kirk douglist. It could have been a studio head. I don't know. Alright, Well, I think I think that was Well, we haven't quite solved this one. Was we'll put this, we'll make this almost there, but not quite. I'm going to give this three and a half stars Unsolved Radio. I think that's fair.

Three and a half stars on scale of fifteen us about right. Yeah, uh so, folks, that's it for this week. Of course, you if you don't know where to find us, you can find us on iTunes. Please of course stop to give us a rating and maybe leave a little review something like that. We really like those. You can find us on Facebook, and of course if you find us on Facebook, you have to like us. Yeah, well you don't have to be nice. And we have a group on Facebook too, don't Yes, you do, so, yeah,

join the group. You can also find us on Stitcher, although if you found us on Stitcher you're probably not hearing this because Stitcher has developed this tendency to trunk aator episodes. That's something we're working on. But yeah, someday they will figure out what's going on. Yeah, it's a little frustrating. I'm sure it's even more frustrating for the people who are streaming our episodes. You can also send us an email. Are email address which is Stinking Sideways

Podcast at gmail dot com. You all have been great about that. A lot of lots of emails lately, and that don't so many suggestions. Yeah, lots of great suggestions. We try. We're kind of hitting this point right where we like try to have a good mix of like listener suggestions and things you've come up with. But at this point, you guys have like either recommended everything that I ever knew about, or like, there are so many piling up and I feel bad about not doing them.

That just get ready because I think it's possible that, like for the next year all of my episodes are going to be listeners suggestions. Yeah, so sorry everywhere, you know, And I've got a few ideas for how we might handle some of that that well, we'll let everybody know once we suss it all out. Secrets. I'm always always scheming and planning. And I did that actually check the list of listener suggestions to see if somebody has suggested

Gene Spangler. I know, I found this one on my own, so no, but like, you know, just this week, we got an email that I happened to be on and respond to, and you know, this person said, oh, I'd love to hear you tackle this mystery, and I was like, wow, I was literally just thinking about doing that next week. That's why when I was researching Lori Erica, same check the email and it's like, yeah, can't you do this one?

And it's like, yeah, I guess. I guess we'll get that, right too, I guess yeah, will you ask, we'll be And so also, if you want to find this episode somewhere and you don't want to go to itune just stitch, you can find it on our website because you're not listening to it right now. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, okay, so if you want to find future episodes, let me

put it that way, taking Sideways podcast dot com. There you'll find links also, and um also there's a survey, so if you want to take a moment to fill up the survey, that would be really cool. It's not one of those long, tedious ones, right No, No, it's like it's like, you know, like like would you give your mail child Sideways podcast? Yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah, yeah, okay, I'll take it right now. Yeah, me too. I gotta take it like fifty or sixty times. Yeah. Yeah, that's

why I was doing different every year. Yeah, okay, folks, Well that's it until next week for taking Sideways the podcast. This is Joe's signing off. I apologize for my co host Bye