Thinking Sideways: Indiana Dunes disappearance

which is just fifteen bucks a month. It's unbeatable protection at a great value and no strings attached. So protect your home the smart way. Visit simply safe dot com slash criminal to get timber cent off your system today. That's s I M p l I Safe dot com slash Criminal. Sideways up brought the stories of things we simply don't know the answer to. Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast I Am Devin, joined as usual by and Steve, the Boys the Dudes

at It's Okay. This week we're going to talk about the Indiana Dunes disappearance, and it was suggested by Francesca. Thanks Francesco, but it's one that I personally known about for a really long time. She just happened to suggest it too, and then other people have suggested since then. Probably sorry about that. Yeah, you might feel left out, but we read your emails, I swear. Yeah. So this disappearance includes three women. You'll often see girls, but they

weren't girls. They were young women and they were named Anne Miller, Patricia Blow, and Renee Browl in July of nineteen six d six years ago. Man. Yeah, and oddly all three of their Charlie Project pages are different slightly lately. They're actually all cut and pasted and then modified. Yeah, they are, but it's still kind of weird because they disappeared together. So it seems like the information it should be first paragraph is unique and last paragraph even the

body should be the same, but it's not. I agree they should weird in there. Yeah, they should all actually have to have just one page. I think, well, there three different women. So um, so we're gonna go ahead and go through the agreed upon story and we'll try to make mention of any additional details as we can to keep the story flowing. I don't want to give anything away, but what happened to these three to be determined.

Oh really, okay, So Anne, Renee, and Patricia, who I've seen referred to as Patty on a couple of blogs. But I think she was Patricia. I don't think she was Patty. Patty is a nickname for Patricia. I mean, I know, but I think she was went by Patrician, not Patty. But I said, if she went by pat and Patty, and so anyway, we're gonna call our Patricia. The three of these young women were horse enthusiasts, and and Patricia met when they were boarding their horses at

the same stable. And then Patricia and Renee had been friends since high school. Patricia was nineteen in nineteen sixty six, and so was Renee. They had gone to high school together, so you know, that makes sense. And then Anne was twenty one, so a couple of years older. They often met at a tavern in Hodgkins, Illinois, which is that like a suburb of Chicago, it's one of many suburbs.

So they all lived in suburbs of Chicago, or actually I think Renee lived in West Chicago, but they all lived in suburbs, and so Hodgkins would have actually been a pretty central meeting point for them, and it was close to the stables. She was close to the stables as well. Yeah, Renee was married patrician and both had boyfriends that they may or may not have met at the tavern. And also the men may or may not

have been married. I promise. So when you say boyfriends, that they met, they met these guys for the first time at the tavern, not they had boyfriends who would also meet the girls. Yeah, yeah, that they first met at the table. Okay, I no, no, no, yeah, yeah, sorry, so they maybe met these may be married men who are their boyfriends respectively. Um, but it's it's unclear if these guys were married or not. I was a great choice.

Always you always want the married dude. Yeah, well, especially when you're nineteen and twenty one, that's really when you want the married. Good choices. Yeah. The women all stabled and rode their horses at a stable called the Tri Color Stable in Palatine, Illinois, which was owned by George Jane, brother to Silas Jane. And we will talk about that later, Jane. I know you guys love it when I say that. We will talk about that later. If you happen to

have just had your ears peaked a little bit. It's possible that you don't. Don't worry about Yeah, there is Patricia aside from riding, just having a riding horse that she had, she also owned a Thoroughbread named Hank, which I think is a pretty cool name for horse, who was a winning race horse. He had recently won two separate races. That one about nine hundred dollars a piece, which is like almost seven thousand dollars now, So not nothing.

I mean, we're not like, yeah, both of those races were up in Canada, so Canadian dollars so much much. I think it was American dollar. But yeah, so that this will again probably be relevant later. But we'll talk about that later because I know you guys like to hear that. On July second, nineteen sixty six, in the wee hours of the morning, Ann and Patricia returned to their respective homes like right after bar closing time, like two or three am. It's never really specified, but it

is said that they returned home very late. Yeah, I always heard. I've heard it said just before dawn. I have no idea that. Yeah, then around eight am and sets out to pick Patricia back up from Patricia's house and owns a car. I think it was a Buick. Buick and Anne lived in Lombard, Illinois, and Patricia lived in Westchester, both suburbs of Chicago. As we previously mentioned, the two drove together to pick up Renee, who lived

in West Chicago. Renee had told her mother earlier that morning that she had planned to be home to cook dinner for her husband sometime in the evening. Okay, so then what happens? Come on, come on, come on, tell me more. The three of them stop at a store to pick up sun some sunscreen, and then planned to spend the day at the dunes, the Indiana Dunes, which is on Lake Michigan, in case you don't know of it. Kind of nice. Yeah, it was at that time the

Indiana Dunes State Park. It is now the Indiana Dunes National Park or National resor I can't remember that. It's a national park now national, Yeah, but it was a state park at the time. That means you can't like, do math or have guns. It's a safe space. Yeah. Yeah. They arrived at about ten am, which seems like a quick drive to me, but you know, it was nineteen sixty six, so maybe traffic wasn't as bad as it

is now in Chicago. It's reported that there were some nine thousand visitors to that beach on the second you know holiday. It was the Saturday before July. Yeah, so it was busy. Obviously, they happened to set up next to a couple on the beach that noticed them, so they had, you know, a big beach blanket and everything like that. And the one question about about the Indiana I should have looked this up actually when I was researching, but I never actually looked at the park itself to

see how long. It's like miles and miles and miles. Yeah, it's miles and miles and miles long. So there's like multiple parking lots and all kinds of stuff. Okay, it sounded to me like it's a big place. And by the way, like Michigan is a big lake. I don't know if people know this, Yeah, very big. It's really big. Yeah. So I mean, you know, nine thousand people over the course of a day on a Saturday on a holiday weekend. It's not as though you're you know, packed shoulder to shoulder.

But it's also not as though there's no one there. Yeah, but yeah, and miles and miles of beaches, nine thousand people, it's not that much really, when you think about it, it it probably wasn't that crowded. Well, and um, you know, just because they were visiting the beach. The Lake Michigan is a big boating area, so that also includes the people who were just coming to park their cars to you know, be on their boats and stuff like that. But it was enough that there were people around, you know,

it wasn't abandoned. And there was this couple that sat next to where the ladies set up. I think it's they were. They were near another couple, if I remember correctly, because they were trying they were either near a tree or trying to use the shade of the tree tree. That's why they set up shop where they did, about

a hundred yards away from the water. It was me as I I always stick at a nice little spot in the beach, and then immediately a big family of seventeen comes and like plunks themselves down right next to me for no reason whatsoever. This is why I don't go to the beach with you. Yeah, I know, I'm a magna for that kind of thing. Luckily I don't

have that problem. Yeah, they this couple noticed these three young women, and they reported that the women were just hanging out, and then at about noon, they all three entered the water together. They were swimming around and then maybe a boat came up to them, and they all three got on the boat and went away. Because, by the way, chicks love boats. Some chicks, do you love boats? Yeah?

There were a lot of boats, but this particular boat, this couple said was about fourteen to sixteen feet long. It was white, had a blue interior and outboard motor. There was a man driving the boat who was described as a I love this quote tan with a head full of coal colored curls. Quote foreign. Yeah, wearing a beach jacket. He's always wearing a beach jacket. I don't know what a beach jacket exactly is, to be honest

with you, but I see it like a breaker. Okay, I just seen it on a dozen different web pages about this. I had the same thing, except I actually came across one site that said that he was wearing a life jacket, which would be smart dat Uh. Yeah, this boat, this was the tri Marian. Correct, This particular boat. It was a try hole but not trimaran. They didn't know there's a sailboat with three separate holes, and try

hall is just a single hole boat. But it's got like those it's got like those two big grooves in the hall. So this one they don't know. This is like, we need to pause on that because we'll talk more about what you're talking about. Second, it confused me because that's jumping ahead. This is literally the report that this couple gave this boat, which is where we're at right now.

They actually used the words coal colored curls. They did, apparently. Yeah, nothing about a foreign accent, they know there was, They didn't. They just saw the guy like hand yards away. But you can still hear that foreign stop it. No, he

was just a kidnapping, okay. The couple spent the rest of the day at the beach, sitting next to these three young women's clothes, and when it was getting to be dusk, they started packing up and noticed that the women hadn't come back yet, and so they were able to find a park ranger and point out, you know, hey, there's some stuff here, and there were three young women here.

And they left at noon and they haven't been back yet, and then gave also the report of they got on this boat with this guy and we haven't seen them since so and the park ranger said, okay, well, I don't know, maybe they forgot about it, or maybe they went off to a party boat or something. So he collected their stuff and then kept it in the office. By the way, a couple of days. I've never seen their names, and I presume the name of this couple is just lost. I think it's just been actually have

seen it. I found it, and then like an hour later I was like, oh my god, I need to write that down, and I didn't do it, and then find that web page again. Good luck. Yeah, that's the problem. It's it's they're not any any famously known names of any well, and there's no I mean, and there's there's no reason for them to be thrown into a spotlight

or have their name tossed around. Because this is one of those cases that people have been really intrigued by and feel it was a little mismanaged, and so in those kinds of cases, I totally respect not giving out the first witness information because people are constantly going to be bad, yeah, or their family or whatever, saying I'm sure you guys know more. And that's just horrible. And they were just trying to be good Samaritans, so you know,

why give that information. Okay, well we'll call them. We don't need to call them anything because that's that's their last in our case, we never know, we might we might talk about the age, okay. The stuff that the women had left behind, um did include purses and towels and stuff like that. And as I said, the rangers store them in their office for until the fourth when Patricia's father called the ranger station to ask about his daughter.

And it turns out missing person's reports had been filed for all three young women over the weekend when they didn't come back on the night of the second. And you know, this is one of those situations where it's tough because they're all adults technically, Yeah, they can do what they want, and so they might just run off. I don't know how, yeah, how seriously it was taken. I mean, the father of Patricia is the person who had to call the ranger station at their last known location.

The cops didn't even reach out all three. Yeah, the cops didn't reach out and say, hey, did you guys like find a body or something, I mean, like even something as cursory as that they didn't do. So it was a different age. It was a different age. Yeah. When the rangers get the call, they say, oh, um, yeah, what were the names of the other person? And this is you know, when you would go to state parks, you still have to do this. You fill out to

you have to pay for parking. So you fill out a little slip of paper with your license number and the spot that you've parked in at this at this particular one, the spot you parked in, and then you you know, hang your little thing in the window and you drop your money with the other things in the box. So big cast iron boxing. Yeah. So they were able to actually find the record of Ann's car, which happened to still be parked in the same spot, and as luck would have it or not, her keys happened to

be with the belongings that they've been holding. It totally makes sense. Yeah, And there were additional things that they found in the car, just personal effects, you know, additional clothes and stuff like that. The articles that they left on the beach in case anybody's wondering Anne had left her denim shorts, a polo shirt, her shoes, and her bathing cap, you know, just a swim cap, a comb,

and her thermis. Patricia had left a yellow robes, sunglasses, transistor, radio, a white towel, and her wallet that had five dollars in it, and then Renee dollars today, right, not not quite, but it's not I mean, it's not nothing. Renee had left her beach towel, her shorts, a blouse, cigarettes, sunscreen, cents, and her purse that had like fifty dollars worth of

checks in it. Now that's actually a randomly leave, yeah, I And then yeah, as I said that, more more stuff was found in the car, nothing of any couple, No, no, just you know, like coats and probably regular stuff that you find in somebody's car, probably Patricia's actual clothes because she had just left her robe, you know, things like that. So nothing out of nothing, out of the ordinary. That was all the searching he did on the fourth, because

you know, holiday and stuff like that. Whatever, missing persons, whatever, we'll put that onworks off. Yeah. So finally on the it they launched their full scale investigation. And I'm gonna have full scale air quotes because there was a full scale investigation for about a couple of days, and then it was just two dudes who never two investigators who never even met each other, were in charge of the rest of this in different districts in different states. Yeah, yeah,

probably Illinois and Indiana. Yeah, And it was, you know, one state patrolman who was in charge of finding backgrounds and then another investigator. And they don't they didn't. They never met in person ever. I actually don't even know if they even spoke to each other. I'm not sure you would think so, but I think that I think they would meet to yeah, apart the full scale thing was just basically scuba divers and dragon the lake and

all that stuff. And the full scale was the U. S. Coast Guard came in and they you know, had some scuba divers come down and they did and the helicopters and kind of searching for these and things like that. And initially they just searched within a tiny little radius of where the women's stuff was found, and then they expanded it. A couple of days later, they expanded it six miles along the coast or along the lake shore

kind of to the southwest. I think, yeah, because I I when I saw that, I assumed the currents must move from east to west there, and then that has to be the reasoning. I guess I've presumed that that's accurate. During this time, a lot of other witnesses, reliable or not, came forward, you know, they said, hey, some young women went missing. If you guys happened to be on the beach, if anybody has information, let us know, And a lot of the stories started to conflict what the original couple

had said. But the investigators kind of all agreed that they found that first report to be the most reliable and then to me, that's not so weird. I think they were able to say, these people went and did this, it's weird, and they but they it's pretty clear that they saw what happened were versus you know, nine thousand people on a beach. Three young women could be any three young women could totally have mistaken a group, you know,

for that group and given a different story. So the police did pretty much say this is this is at least the start of what had happened here. Yeah, I don't think they ever got any actual, really actual, certifiable other witnesses to those women actually being on that beach, people that you trust, because again he put the word out to the public, and of course a lot of people are going to think there are a couple other things that did happen, and we're going to talk about

that right now. Yeah, more witnesses kind of started to come forward, and one guy actually turned It turned out had been filming doing like home videos, you know, just from the family and his trip, and he had footage of two separate boats that the police identified as boats of interest. Basically, I haven't found this footage anywhere online, but though to be fair, I didn't look very hard. I tried, but so if somebody happens to find it, great,

send it to us. But I kind of feel like if the guy was filming his family, then they would have been in the background and probably unrecognized, and its well, maybe recognizable. So what the footage caught basically was these two different boats that they thought were a little suspect. One was a fiberglass sixteen to eighteen foot trimaran try hole what I've heard it called trimaran, but it's I think it's really what they made. What they mean is try hole. Well, it says a trimaran run about with

a three whole design. So I don't know what that means necessarily, you think it's not that important, but what I think you're probably important. Yeah, I think it probably is. It's like, you know, your average a little little motor unt about. It's like get a V hole, which is basically comes down to a single keel, and in the try hole there's a central keel and then there's two outer keels also, and then there's two what they call it tunnels in between them. Oh, I know exactly what

you're talking about. The bottom the boat has to two arcs in them on the bottom, and it's a flatter Yeah, it's a little it's a more flatter and more square design. And that makes so much more. That's way more sense than the other try holes. I've never seen a motorized trim ran a sailboats. Yeah, yeah, well that's I was like that, that's a distinctive boat to be a true three individual holes. I was like, that's so strange. Okay,

thank you, thank you. That makes way more sense because I did when I googled it, I was like, wow, that's I think people would have remembered that. But Okay, sure, why not, it's a little different. Yeah, So that boat the film, this person who was filming was able to see and the police from the descriptions, it sounds like the image was clear enough at least that they were able to see that there was one guy and three women on there. And the guy seemed to match at least,

you know, kind of. He was wearing his whatever, a boat jacket, and he had black curly hair, and the women, you know enough, they're probably their bathing suits are probably how they matched because I think it was hair. Well it's black and white, right, but you can tell if it but to I think two of them were in bikinis and one was in a one piece if I remember right, So that would help, that would help identify if they were all in bikinis, you know, you had

the wrong boat, right. But still even with that, with the film, I don't think they really got a well they didn't. So there's this other boat that was at Trojan Cabin Cruiser. That's a big boat. I don't know what that is either. He's a big boat. Yeah, that's not a huge boat really, but it's a big boat. It's got a big cabin on could one call it a house boat. No, not really. I mean, you could live on a ft, but it'd be kind of cramped.

But you know, you're talking bigger about you're talking like you're getting in a big boat territory, but you can. I mean, so this is important to me. A layman could look at that boat and say, it's a houseboat. Does it look like there's a little cabin on the top. Houseboats are trailers with pontoons under them, basically, But a cabin cruiser is a boat and it's it's got just

a big enclosed cabin area. It's much more distinctive. It's not you know, you know, like you think of a basic rowboat design and you slap a big cabin on the top of it that takes maybe the first third or first half, and that's it. You see the ones um like the ones you always see guys doing the big fishing expeditions on TV. And that's kind of cabin

cruiser style. Yeah, okay, that one was seen with three men on it and three women who might have might have been matched vaguely the description of our three missing ladies. It's just so hard to imagine a boat with three women on it. I can see what these really stood. Yeah, yeah, Well the problem here is, of course, that neither of these boats had names printed on them painted on them anywhere, or if they did, they weren't discernible. They weren't discernible,

so there was no way to identify these boats. So they were kind of dead leads. But investigators also had some reports that they deemed to be reliable, that Renee and Patrician and had been seeing walking along the beach and eating a little bit after three pm on the second that some miles away from where their belongings were.

It sounds like that the women had swam out to meet this boat, gotten on this smaller boat, been taken some miles away, got off, got something to eat while waiting for the larger boat to come pick them up, and then gotten on the larger boat, and then never gotten off the larger boat. Perhaps, or maybe as if you're if you're three women in bathing suits on the beach, probably a lot of guys with boats are going to approach you and say, hey, you want to write my vote,

and maybe don't. And actually that that leads into something I don't remember where I read it, but I seem to remember that somebody else had come forward saying that they had seen the women's swimming in the water, and the guy had come up and done just that, Hey you want to come on board, and one of them had said, no, we can't, I'm married, as in, hey,

I'm off limits. Get away, dude. So that's that's an interesting thing that this story comes out where this guy was turned down, and then the main story comes along and says they just happily climbed on board some random boat. Yeah, they might have been somebody they knew, though, I mean, or a friend of a friend. Yes, they could have been somebody that they knew. Well. I mean, that's interesting to me because I saw that one place and it was kind of like, okay, one place. But also I

guess it's never explained how somebody heard that conversation. Would have been guy driving the boat who said they turned him down, because I seem to remember it being the guy who's driving the boat they told him, no, I'm married. I do remember. Reported then he like, I remember seeing that somewhere, but I've never I don't know how much how much value there is. It's just it's interesting to me, you know, because it's it's very counter to the narrative.

Yeah it is, okay, well with that, we'll just leave that. Patrician and are reported to have been very strong swimmers who could swim about thirty miles. Renee was reported to have been a quote fair swimmer. But you know, by the people who are like a strong swimmer thirty miles, I don't know what fair means. I mean, I report myself to be a fair swimmer because I could save my life, but I wouldn't qualify myself as a particularly

great Can you swimmer of a mile? Yeah, yeah, if I had to, I mean, it wouldn't be a fun mile, but yeah, I kind of kind of for me. It would depend on current and stuff like that, but it would be a lot of treading water and a lot of breaks and just floating up. Well, you just learn, you know. I mean, this is part of I'm sorry everyone, this is part of the cruise ship training. But you there's a certain way that you can swim that you know,

you could just swim for forever. Obviously it's not like battling strong currents or anything like that, but it'll get you to a place kind of I think we've talked about this before the fact that if I ever go over in in a situation like that, I am screwed. I can swim, but I am absolutely not buoyant. I sink like a rock. I don't know. I'm not that boyant either, but pretty buoyant filled with more hot air or something. Uh So, I guess it sounds like all

three of them were pretty strong. They could swim, so they pretty much All of the investigators, both official and armchair, agree that three accidental drownings highly unlikely, especially with the their bodies not ever having washed on shore. And we're not talking the ocean where they could have been devoured by sharks, right, I mean, it's like Michigan. I mean, I haven't looked at the theory section yet, but is

accidental drowning even in there, and it should go. I don't think it should be, because you've just made a great point. Three bodies. One of them should have washed ashore, you would think so, And for all three of them to have drowned accidentally at the same time seems pretty crazy. But unless they didn't, you know, unless they were helped to drown, unless they helped do not wash ashore. Yeah,

and that isn't accidental anymore, all right. So there are some more things that we're going to talk about, but I'm going to weave those into theories. So before we get to theories, let's take a quick break. A horse walks into a bar. The door hangs open behind her. She lazily looks around owned at the other patrons she size and stares down at the harry pick tending the bar. He snorts and trots away to whisper to the cranky old hens sitting in the other end of the bar.

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Apron dot com slash thinking. Blue Apron a better way to cook and keep animals out of bars. And we're back. I hope you like that word from our sponsors. We're talking about theories now. First theory is gonna sound like one of those things we throw in here as a joke, but it actually, I think personally, the most viable of all of our theories. This theory is called the horse syndicate people theory. Remember how we talked about the Tricolor stables and George Jane and Silas Jane a little bit.

I mentioned it, and then I said, remember that, and then some people were like, no, talked about Silas Jane now because they know who Siles Jane Jane is. Okay, Well, I'm going to start off by saying, if you go out and google Tricolor stables, you have to google cry Color Stables bombing or something like that, because there's a Tricolor Stables that exists in Florida and it is not the same. I think it has no relation to this one. Don't don't even go there. Well, no, I'll go there.

We don't want to drive away their business. Oh yeah, no, I'm sorry. Don't feel free to go. Don't associate them with what we're about to talk about, is what I mean. Okay, we don't want any lawsuits. The name Silas Jane may have rung about for some of you because he's kind of famous in the Chicago area, slash connected and implicated in a number of unsolved murders in the Chicago area. Let's start from the top a little bit, shall we.

Silas was the eldest of eleven children, and his half brother, George, was the product of an extramarital affair on his mother's part. Silas was worn in nineteen o seven and George was born in nineteen twenty three, so there were sixteen years apart. I guess they were too close as children. I don't think so. I think, especially with the present time and everything. But you're gonna get into that in when George was

just one years old. One year old Silas was convicted of rape and sent to spend a year in the state reformatory. Just a year for rape. You're welcome. It does seem kind of lied, although he would have been, well, okay, we're not. In the fifties, Silas and two of his other brothers worked at a stable then eventually became known for their horse trading and training skills and eventually opened up their own stable called the Idle Hour, and then later I'm not quite sure when, but George opened his

own stable, Tricolor. Yeah, that was years later. Years later, Silas made money selling horses, subpar horses to rich fathers who had daughters who wanted to go into horse riding competitions, and there was a certain there was a certain caliber of horse that you needed for something like that, and Silas didn't really care and just lied and convinced these fathers that these horses were of that caliber. He would upsell these people in a big way. Well he I mean,

these horses were horses. He would go out and catch these horses from the wild and turn around and sell them and be like, oh, it just needs to be broken in. It's just kind of like what's your average used car salesman does today? Really, I would say a little worse than He would take horses that we're bad performers or potentially ready in those times to go to the glue factory, and he would resell them as champion horses, like I used car salesman. Yeah. Idle Hour, which was Silas.

The stable you remember, was in Chicago and was frequented by a lot of Chicago gangsters at the time. Uh. Silas, he's the kind of guy who um so since he had this rape conviction when he was seventeen, he was ineligible for the draft, so when the war came along, he couldn't get drafted, so he decided to just sell horse meat instead. That's how he made money. Yeah, and then he made a lot of friends with a lot of famous gangsters in Chicago at the time, and they

often frequented Idle Hour. And though he was a savvy businessman, he was a huge bully and a heavy drinker. And I don't think he had a steak in George's Tricolor stables at all, but they were rivals. Silas did what he does best and planted a car bomb on George's car. He didn't do it himself. Well, he had someone do it. Yeah, and we know that actually that he was behind them. I'm sorry, you're right, it's strongly suspected that he was

wrongly suspected. Again. Yeah, they're brothers, but all their half brothers, but apparently no love lost. They're actually business competitors. Yeah. Um, well, and unfortunately that car bomb went off when a woman named Cherylyn Rude went to move George's car for him. You got it, I kind of. I've always suspected that perhaps George had an inkling that maybe the car was

not safe to drive, I don't know, car for me. Well, he It turns out after that he rigged this system with a really long pull with his key attached to it, so that he could start the car from a safe distance. Every Yeah. Yeah, he was sticking through the passengers window, turn it and let the car start, and then turn it off and you know, put his stick away and go straf car again. Yeah. Obviously at that point then you want to put the bomb in the passenger side

facing outward. Yeah, yeah, you do. Well. George eventually was actually murdered. It took three attempts at least before they got it. Yeah. Yeah, police of course assumed that Silas was to blame for the bomb and for the murder, but they couldn't prove it. So there's that. Patricia, you will remember, had her prize winning horse stable at the Tricolor, which George owned. The bombing was in sixty five, so just a year before the women went disappearing, went disappeared,

disappeared before they left the split split. Yeah. In March of nineteen sixty six, Patricia acquired what is um quoted as a face injury which may have been inflicted by a fist or stairs. Such a weird description. When her family asked her what happened, she kind of brushed it off and just said that she was having some problems with the quote horse syndicate people, which is where we

get the title for this theory. The theory goes then that the women who wrote at Tricolor all the time had witnessed the bombing or the placement of the bomb, or could some one of them or yeah, or one of them, or could somehow otherwise implicate Silas in the crime, and so he was bullying them into not talking, but decided that that wasn't quite enough, and so he needed

to have them murdered. So the thing to keep in mind is the car bomb went off, went off in Silas went to trial, and I think it was a four month long trial, and the trial had ended just the month before they disappeared. So I think it was the beginning of June that that he had been that he had been cleared of the case. It was acquitted. Yeah, to add to this theory, there are a lot of

also's in this theory. To add to the theory, in late sixty six, Silas claimed to have bodies of three women buried under his house, and police took this claim seriously and planned to dig it up. But I don't know why I have heard about this claim, but and I've actually heard it said that he told police that he had three bodies buried under his house. Why would anybody do that? Because he was insane. He was insane,

he was legit insane. He also also his phone number was found in the purse of at least one of the women. I think it was Patricia, but I can't be certain. I think it was in Patricia's purse, but it was in one of the persons. I heard this also, but was hit his personal phone number or his number at the stable. I think it was his personal phone number. I think that it would have been said that it

was the number. Yeah, And and then it would have been the idle hour stable, which none of them they were, they're using tricolor. Also, also of note, Silas is suspected in the nineteen murders of three young boys known as the Peterson Schusler murders. And he's also implicated implicated in the murders of the Grime Sisters. And then as we said, the murder of George, his brother, the murder. And then also there are some other last quote unquote noteworthy when

he when he took out George. Finally, how did you get him? He was shot in the head while playing cards through a basement window. Yeah, And I think is it the Grime sisters, the ones who know that was somebody different who was calling him out and going to report to the authorities his scam on what he did with horses, you know, selling crappy horses as super fancy horses. How was somebody else who also happened to die, Yes,

who happened to disappear and die? Yeah? Also also also, Patricia's boyfriend at the time was an ex con cowboy who lived in California, and you know that was John Paul Jones, right, yeah, and he maintains that he was innocent. By the way, I don't think he was married. I know, I said earlier the boyfriends might have been married, but I don't think this guy was. I heard that one of them was married, but not not. I think that Ann's boyfriend might have been married, but Patricia's ex con

California cowboy boyfriend was. No. I think he was in California. I think kind of shady character. Yeah, I know. There's a theory out there. It says the reason that these three young women had Silas's phone number was because they were working as like call girl date girls for him, and that they that he had set up a date yeah something like necessarily anything sexual but no, no, no,

but you know, like paid date time or whatever. Uh. And then that's why there were three men on that large boat and three young women on that large boat, and that, you know, I don't know, something that wrong, I guess or I don't know, or they decided to sell them, you know, like sell them. Uh. Yeah, I think about the whole murder thing by by Silas is that he waited a long time, like a whole year between the bombing and the actual disappearance of the women.

And also he had already been on trial and essentially acquitted, so it's like, you know, you couldn't be tried again for it anyway. So I actually don't think that he waited all that long though. I mean, he he probably felt like he was going to get away with it, and then he had to go to you know, it's arrested and goes through trial. And I could see this being a situation of cleaning up all the loose ends

just in case. But he had already been to trial and acquitted by the time they disappeared, right, he had been to trial. I don't know if he was acquitted. Yeah. And the thing about it is too, is there were other witnesses to the guys actually planting the bomb in the car I heard, and these people their names were published in the papers, and none of them got killed. And there's no evidence that any of the three women

actually saw anything or new anything. Well, but you know, but it could also be So there's the whole she was having problems with the horse that the good people, and that that brus could have simply have come from

a horse worked with animals, and that was the reason. Okay, But but the what I'm saying here is that if she's having problems with them, and somehow Silas is involved in this, and she knows, she could have foolishly mouthed off and said, listen, cut it out, or I'm going to tell everybody that I know something and I saw you there, I mean, you know, making claims that could have put her in the hot seat and was not a good negotiating tactic. Here's my two things about that.

First of all, the fact that she said somebody punched her, when in fact it would have been really easy for her to say a horse hit me means that she probably was trying to tell someone something right to make at least. Second of all, Silas was involved in so many shady things that it doesn't have to be even

a little bit connected to the bombing. In my mind that they, at least one of them could have known something about anything that he had done and said, hey, i'm gonna we're gonna tell yeah, you hang out in the stable as you probably hear some scuttle, but you know, I mean it wasn't just them talking to George or the talk of the silas or whatever. It was like,

you know, there's all kinds of people hanging around. There were other mobsters hanging around there, maybe wanted to, like, you know, pick up on these girls and press these girls and stuff like that. Who knows that they actually heard, Yeah, of course it's all at hearsay. Also, so it's like whether it was any danger or just silence, I'm not so sure. So so back to the whole date on the boat thing. So you were saying, so I'm assuming I just want to flesh that out a little bit.

You said, you know, and then something went wrong. I'm assuming that means that something went wrong and one of them died, and to cover it up they killed all three and waited in the drums at the bottom. That seems to be the kind of going theory. There's a lot of theories that involved that sort of And then something went wrong and they had to kill all three of them, and why I don't know, But yeah, there's always I kind of like the white slavery theory. That's

your favorite theory for literally everything. You could be talking about when did Yeah, actually in that area, it was an issue. It still is. It's still but at that time is always a thing that's happening a lot right now. Yeah, but yeah, I mean it's possible. It's possible, certainly. I I think that's a kind of a weak one in this particular case, but it is completely plausible based on the people they were hanging around with. So I noticed that you don't have on your list any popular killers,

and I'm surprised. I mean, Silas Jaane is a pretty popular killer. Let's be honest here, known convicted killer. How about that? Okay, So we're not going to debate that. I have to that. I didn't know if you wanted to talk about if you want, you okay. So there's one and I'm gonna probably butcher the pronunciation of this town. But it's the Yipsilante ripper John Norman Collins or Chapman. His name is different in places, but he's the guy who between sixty seven and sixty nine he killed like

seven or eight women. He started out like once once a year, once every eight months, and then suddenly at the very end it it escalated and he killed a whole bunch of people or women from seven to six, right, So this would be his kind of his big getting things. He's starting with three women at once. That's ambitious. He kind of matched the description. He's not too far off of the area, a couple hundred miles away, so yeah, that that's a jaunt. But you never know with these

kind of things. The other one that I saw was Richard Spec And if anybody doesn't know who he is, he's the guy that in on July nineteen sixty six, which is ten or twelve days prior, he killed eight nursing students, eight women in their house. He was he said he was on some you know, he was drunk and he was black out drunk. But he he butchered all of them, and he obviously would have had the capacity to do that. So they're they're two ones that

are right there in the area that could have been earlies. Yeah, I guess that's true, that that second one, Spec, I guess I'm will more willing to believe him than the other one. Well, in the problem with spec specting clean up, Yeah, he didn't clean up. And also, um, why not just I mean, if you've you've brutally murdered eight women, what's another three? Well they're warmups, but I mean crap, but I mean to not say. Also, well he he tried to, you know, to play games as all these guys draped.

Did I want to them own a boat? Not that I know of, but I haven't seen that in there. But they were both Um so Spec was in his mid twenties at the time and John Norman I think was eighteen or nineteen at the time. That's why I feel like he could have matched the description. That's why I looked him like, check this out. Yeah, the man is described as being in his mid twenties. Ish's you know, is hard because it's kind of when you start looking like you're any age. But yeah, I mean those are

two good theories. I guess they're suspects that are out there that these people are always trying to tie people who did bad deeds into so many other cases, so I'm amazed that that hasn't happened with this one. They would do it, Yeah, that's a good idea, Like, yeah, I could see where he would like to decide, Hey, you know, I want to start saal killing and I know I've got this great idea I'm going to go down to this beach with a boat, and I'm just gonna pick up a girl, take her out in the lake,

and kill her. And then he discovered. He gets out there and discovers, hey, no individual woman is kind of willing to climb into my boat alone with me. Uh, And so he winds up with three women's okay, well I let's just roll with the punches. Yeah. Yeah, for me, for it to be one person is always pretty incredible to me, particularly since all three of these women were pretty strong swimmers. Don't you think at least one of

them would have tried to escape? Um, if you're in a motorized boat and somebody is swimming away, you know what, it's very easy to do him over, run him over. Oh she got away. Well I'll finish what I'm doing because we're out in the middle of the lake, and then I'll just take care of her true story. Okay, that's fair. The next theory is a little bit of

a sensitive topic this islar though it's a very popular theory. Um, But just so you guys know, if anybody needs to take a break for this one, feel free, or if you don't want to hear it. We're going to talk about aliens. The next one, it's about abortions and was apparently pregnant. Three months pregnant sounds like angely. I've also heard that Patricia was pregnant, but I'm not sure where that information comes from. I've also heard that all three of them were pregnant, but I have no idea where

that information comes from. I don't think Renee was pregnant. I think her she's just she's not pregnant. She is the one married one day, but I think her family would have known, but maybe not. An had talked about entering a home for unwed mothers before her disappearance. And now this is six so that's seven years before Roe v. Wade. So abortion is super illegal at the time everywhere everywhere, well not everywhere. It was. It was legal in some American states, but it was not none of not not

in the mid West where they were at now. And as we know, when something is illegal, we just make it in our bathtubs and get on with life. So that's what they did. I'm sorry there's this. There was this well known man named Hank Largo in the Chicago area at that time, and he, along with his wife, Helen, helped women who were in a family way who did not want to be in a family way out by

providing abortions. Yeah. Um, they operated out of a houseboat is what it's described as floating on you guessed it, Lake, Michigan. I've also heard that maybe they operated out of Gary, Indiana. But to be honest, I don't know why you wouldn't just operate multiple locations or move your operation a lot.

It's illegal and people are going to come after you if yeah, eventually somebody's can figure out and if you move around a lot yet, Yeah, especially if you're like on a houseboat that boat around Yeah, well yeah, if you have actually a good charts, you know, and you know whether the demarcation between say Illinois Indiana is when the Illinois State Police and the lawn just start coming

after you's like right, yeah, yeah. The so Helen and Hank's nephew, Ralph Largo Jr. It sounds like maybe ran a bit of a fairy transport to help young women get to this house boat and also, you know, make sure that they never knew. I mean, that's what you

kind of want. You want somebody to transport people there because to the dock, right, But also you can you know, load your women into a smaller craft and you ride around Lake Michigan, drop them off, pick them up again, you know, do whatever you need to do to make sure that they don't know where in the lake they are so that nobody can go to the yeast later and say there was a houseboat and it was here.

It could be a totally a totally good cut out to you know, he shows up and he doesn't say, hey, you're ready for to the abortion, you know, Instead you show up and say, hey, you girls want to go for a ride, absolutely, and that they know what kind of but they know that's why they went. Yeah, so this would explain a lot. But so the theory goes before we get a little too far into it. Obviously, the theory goes that either just An or In and

Patricia or all three of them were pregnant. They were able to contact Hank and uh find out you know, or get this procedure started, wanted friends with them. I'm just going to go on the assumption that Anne was the only one that was pregnant, but she wanted her two good friends with her, probably for safety, but also for emotional support and things like that. Something goes wrong, it's box. So they kill them all and I don't know,

throw them overboard or something. They just probably kept some weights around for that very purpose and then they moved the house boat and then never to be wise. Yeah, one of the problems I have with this theory. I'm not totally discounting it. But they went off into the water wearing bathing suits and then get into the boat and go off for their abortions. And I've never had an abortion, believe it or not, But I'm not sure is that is a bathing suit what you want to

be wearing like act you've had your abortion. No, No, that's there. There is. Convalescing is what you would want to do, more so than playing in the beach running around in your bathing suit. That would be much more conducive to your your recuperation. However, on the other hand, if this operation is happening on a houseboat and it's super illegal, you're gonna want to try to keep all of the attention away from you as possible. So you're going to go in your bathing suit because it's unsuspicious

for you to be swimming around. You may you may even spend the night on this houseboat recuperating. I don't know. They likely have, you know, robes and other clothes on the house boat for you to be able to help cover yourself up and feel better in. But I mean, you do what you have to do in situations that are that illegal. I will certainly it's not the ideal situation, but a back alley illegal abortion on a houseboat isn't

the ideal situation either, so I understand that. And the weather was super hot I think it was like nineties some degrees that day, but I could I mean, if this guy is going to pick you up, he could just as easily have picked you up at one of the docks that's around the area, And you could whoever was going to have the procedure could have instead of water around a bikini, how a sun dress on that That isn't you know what I'm dancing It wasn't like

that was the only access the lake, right, Well, there's that, And what else I'm also dancing around is that there's likely to be apparent bleeding after the fact that is very noticeable in a in a wimen suit. Yeah, so that's that's why I have such a problem, and I agree with Joe in this particular one have been something.

I agree that it's definitely not a full proof theory, but I also agree that it's not the worst theory out there, except with the exception of well, no, what the exception of something went wrong and they killed three women because an abortion was botched. I mean it's I mean, you know, well, the thing about it is is that when abortions get screwed up. And again I'm not an expert, by the way, and this is a this is a touchy subject, and I think we all understand and agree

with that. Well, yeah, it's usually it's usually complications after the fact, and it's not like somebody's getting abortion and they just immediately kick off. I mean, it's usually it takes a little while. Yeah, I mean, it is an operation, so it could be you know, somebody could bleed out on the table. Conceivably, I don't know if that's more likely they would die from SEPs as much as you know,

somewhat late. Sure, But I mean even if in the instance that you know, somebody bleeds out on the table, you know, for you to turn around to be like, well, I guess manslaughter is my only option here instead of you know, saying she knew the risks, she decided to go through with it. Anyway, Let's figure out if there's a way. I don't know it's it's just turning straight to manslaughter. Is like, I don't I don't think that's manslaughter.

I mean, if you turn around you kill the other two to keep it quiet, I think that's more than manlater, but I mean, well, okay, so let's let's look at it from the other side, from your perspective, and just go to the other side of whoever was getting the procedure does die and the other two or one of the other two completely loses her mind and starts to again, this is the same thing I'm going to wrap you us making threats, and this is your livelihood and you

do illegal things. Yeah, that's one more illegal thing, okay, to more things. That's true. Yeah for me, I guess I just have a hard time because there Because here's the thing is the illegal thing they are doing is an illegal thing. They are doing to help provide health access to women who need it. Right, They're not like slinging back alley super dangerous drugs. They're not out, you know, thieving and things like that. They're trying to provide a

medical service that women need. So for me, no, no, it's not, that's true. But what I'm saying is that I'm just trying to put myself in the in the boots of um Hank and Helen right as the medical providers here. It's they're doing an illegal thing for good from their point of view, right, They're not doing an illegal thing for their own profit, for their own maybe for a little monetary profit, but not They are not murderers, right,

They are not common thieves and criminals. So for me to say, like, hey, these doctors who are providing this medical procedure for people, what's another murder on top of that, Like, that's a pretty big stretch for me. That's at the same time, you know, even though I agree these people probably weren't the kind of people to just cold bloodedly murder people in a situation like that where these you know, a woman is like Steve says, flips out, says, you're

an incompetent moron. I'm going to take this to the police right now. You I can see where you would panic and just like grab a blunt instrument and just hammer and both I could totally see that. I will admit that. I just I'm taking exception with the idea

of like, what's another murder medical procedure? I mean, and I would be careful to when you're doing that, devon, because you're saying that they have you know, they don't have the scruples to be bad people and just do it because they're in it for the money, because they could potentially be that kind of person people. And I admit I didn't do a whole lot of reading on these two because it makes me feel better because I spent a lot of time on Silas. Yeah. So that's

but I think we've I think we've established this one. Yeah, so that's the second theory. Third fourth, I don't know if we're counting your weird serial killer. What about the water spout? When are we going to get the water spout? The water spout? There wasn't a water pop. But what about the water crib? Water crib? There was a water crib. We can talk about that. I guess sure, Well, that's the water inlets that when they found the boat parts, Yeah,

they did find some boat parts. It was a seat and yeah, so it could have been stuff that was thrown overboard. It could have been, you know, a boat crash from weeks again, the boat crib was the crib was like a giant intake for a water supply for what this it's a city of Gary. Was it city of Gary, Indiana? Or serves Does it serve Chicago? I don't remember which city it serves now, but it's Yeah, it's a giant creep pillar that's got a processing plant

in the middle of it. It's way out in the lake. Yeah, and so presumably they put filters in the screens so people and boat still get sucked into it, I'm assuming, And they also set a bunch of divers down around it. Yeah, because divers searched all around that thing, because they presumed that on this fun boat ride they smashed headlong into it,

they all sunk. And that's why. Yeah, I mean, there was no boat that was reported missing or crashed or anything like that, but I don't I don't put a lot of stock and I mean there was there was, there's no boat found there. Yeah, So yeah, I have a couple of the theories. I know that, Steve, do you have another one today? Okay? Well, I guess our final theories aliens or stage or something. One of Patty's

friends did mention Patricia. One of Patricia's friends did mention that she told them that she was planning to stage her own disappearance, which I don't know. Maybe, I guess is a lot to leave behind. Line check. Yeah, police report that Renee's marriage may have been in trouble because they found a letter in her person. Yeah, they've been married fifteen months and she had written a letter that said that he spent too much time working on hot rod cars with his friends and she wanted to end it.

But her husband says that he didn't know of any issues because he was too busy working on hot rod The typical duty has no idea, no idea. But the family agreed, and people pretty much assumed that she just had this note because she had it and had written it when she was angry one night, and then just didn't ever plan on giving it. Not unheard of, No, I get it now. That possibility is that whoever was pregnant was it was Anne. It was told that was

certifiably pregnant. Yeah, that was an okay, Yeah, maybe her boyfriend decided to offer although again I don't really understand offering all three of them versus just her. Yeah, I don't quite get that. Yeah, I don't either. Yeah, it to go after all three it was especial beach. Yeah, I mean, you know, the reason people mentioned that they might have been married is like, well, maybe one of the wives came after them, and or why the boyfriends

were married. I don't know. I don't think. I think the Silas Jane or the abortion theories are the best ones,

but the convenience. The thing that helps with the story when you think about when you see these stuff about well it was the one of the wives or it was somebody else that killed all three of them when they were in the area is the fact that the dunes in that area are constantly shifting, and so it is entirely possible that somebody could have buried them at the base of a dune, and those are living dunes, meaning they're moving all the time, and they could have

been buried, you know, just a couple of feet down, and the dune does all of the hard work and covers all of the evidence for which might pop out. One of these might well there is people do think that there's probably some additional evidence that got buried in the dunes at some point, but they I don't think people really think that their bodies are but I mean it's possible, but I don't know. You also see the stuff about so there's at Mount Baldy, which is right

near there, there's the stuff about the holes. You guys saw those articles. Didn't because it's a moving dune. It's it's swallowed up entire trees, which of them rotted out, and the sand is just kind of barely held together in a column, an open air column. And a boy fell in a couple of years ago. But people was like, well, maybe they all got swallowed. That's a mighty huge coincidence. That is a very huge tree to have to have rotted out and not collapsed prior maybe they all three fellow,

three separate holes. You're walking side by side, and wow, there's a good sides for it. But yeah, that would have happened. And and by the way, just y uh, as far as I know, in that area, there were never any trees anywhere near big enough to swallow three women. Yeah, no, there the holes are like twelve. I heard that phenomenon even occurs around here. Now at our dunes and so be careful out there. Wear a rope, a long long rope,

have your friends holding the other end. Yeah, that'll save you. Yeah. At what they do is they do is they tie it to the back of their their four wheel. Drawing you how many more theories? Anybody your favorite theory? I kind of like the theory that it was a Chinese submarine and yeah they were defecting to China and in Lake Michigan. Yeah that could have been that, right, Yeah, yeah,

let's see. Other than that. No, really, I actually think my favorite theory is that it probably was they were probably a random murder, maybe a serial killers, that type of guy, because I don't see that Silas had any pick in the motivation. Of course, again, silence is everybody's we didn't know about well yeah, totally for sure, But I mean, silence is everybody's favorite for this whole thing. But if you look at Silas's typical murder, m oh,

this is pretty out there. This is pretty different for Silas to do it this particularly, I mean, Salad is more the kind of guy to either you know, plant a bomb in your car or just to have his guys take you out. Somewhere in a field and put a bullet in your brain. Well, he so the two other murders, the big ones that he was implicated in, the one of the three younger boys, and then the grime sisters, those were bodies that were murdered and then dropped in ditches by the side of the road. So

this wouldn't be so far different from that necessarily. I mean, you killed three people and they drop him in the lake instead. And I think that's one of the reasons that people really think that he looks good for this, because there was at least a tenuous connection between them and him. You can you can say they may have met and he I mean, he was a rapist. You

hate to say it, but he was a rapist. And um, you know, it's possible that he had just seen them and thought, oh, hey, I know, I'll bring them on my boat. I'll rape them and i'll murder them, and I'll just have a convenient dropping places that could have been it. And maybe he and his buddies we're going to have just a whole rape, fast, good old time. But you know, and and this is another possibility, and but I don't know, this might be just a little

too subtle and clever for silas. Yeah, I think we're getting but but let me point this out. There's actually only one pair of witnesses who saw the girls there, reliable witnesses. That was the couple, the married couple who supposedly were next to them. But if you really wanted to be clever about disappearing these three, what you do is, you know, you just have some people say you kidnapped him. He takes some of their effects. You have some of your accomplices go down to the beach and say, hey,

you know they were right next to us. They went off, and you've got in a boat with the guy that had a mop of curly, cold black hair. Yeah. What we're getting into now, Joe, is that part that makes our listeners uncomfortable and think that maybe you are actually a serial kid. Yeah, exactly. But what I'm saying is that we don't actually even know that they were at that park. I mean, you don't really honestly. I mean technically, yeah,

technically that's true. Yeah, I think they probably were, but well no, yes, I mean that's all I'm saying is that we don't actually know that they disappeared. I think they were probably were, but I wouldn't. I'm not a sure so I think I Silas is my favorite theory for how you know, there are madrid of different reasons that he could have done it, or how he could have done it or whatever, but I think he did it. Yeah,

I'm I'm I'm not convinced of anything. I do not believe that they voluntarily took off on their own, but after that, I just I'm not willing to throw my hat onto any one of these voluntarily. You mean they disappeared themselves. Yes, I think they did voluntarily climate of that boat. Oh yeah, I just go start new lives. Yeah, out, now that's kind of rare. Okay, Well, um, all of that having been said, UM, I think we're going to wrap this one up. Don't forget to check out our

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think that's it for us. I'm gonna cruise on out of here. Oh, once again I got nothing. Vaminos