Thinking Sideways: Gloomy Sunday

Am Devin, joined per usu By and Steve. Yeah, before we get into this mystery, this is part of our summer series. Basically, we're doing shorter kind of episodes to allow us to enjoy our summer a little bit because we've been doing this for a long time three years now, three years now out um, and also give us some Yeah really we thought we were dead after you know, six months. You guys just keep listening to us. Yeah really,

just kidding, don't do that. But it's going to give us also time to work on some of those bigger cases that we've been hoping to work on, which is pretty good. Yeah, okay, so summer series. Yeah, tonight, we're going to talk about a mystery which has a few different names. We're going to call it Gloomy Sunday. This was a listener suggestion from Mariana. I think it's how you say it, So thank you, thanks Marianna. That was in like fifteen, It wasn't that long ago. Yeah, Gloomy

Sunday has another name, doesn't it does. It's also known as the Hungarian suicide song Do Do Do Do. Gloomy Sunday is a rough translation of the original song, and it's actually the second incarnation of the song. It's a cover or a remix almost almost, it's just different lyrics. What what happened was in nineteen thirty two or thirty three, a Hungarian pianist by the name of Richau schirsch Is.

I think how you say it. I listened to a lot of different pronunciations of it, and they all kind of sounded like so I'm just gonna say it like that, and this is the only time I'm going to say his name. It was probably the best pronunciation yet. Yeah. Um, And this is no offense to you know, the Hungarian language or anything. That's just what it sounded like to me on online, So sorry if I got that wrong anyway.

He he composed the music for the song, and then he also wrote some original lyrics for the song Um, and he titled this this particular song the World is Ending. That's no. A few years after that, a poet decided that he could probably do better at the lyrics, so he rewrote them and retitled the song Gloomy Sunday. And sounds like the composer was kind of in on the whole thing. He was. He seemed to think, yeah, okay, these these are fine. Okay, so he didn't have a

problem with somebody playing new lyrics to it. It didn't sound like it. I think what happened is he wrote the song and he really liked the composition, but he wrote lyrics even though he wasn't a lyricist, and then somebody heard it and said, hey, you know what, actually let me try and compose some good lyrics for this, and he was like, okay, fine. It was probably like, hey, maybe this version will make some money. Yeah, I mean, well,

we'll talk about that in a little bit. Anyway. Gloomy Sunday, the updated UM lyrics, was recorded and released in ninety five, and as I said, it's kind of the more widely accepted version of the song. The song isn't really a mystery, right, very obvious. You can find on the net, you can listen to it can be careful. We'll play a little bit of it um in just a second. But the real mystery here is that apparently the song is responsible for at least nineteen suicides. So the mystery is does

this song actually drive people to commit suicide? This a little depressing. It sounds like a dirge when you listen to it. It's pretty sad. Well, and you know, furthermore I want to know is that is it is it deadly and only the original language, or is it deadly in all languages? Well, and we'll talk about all those things in a minute. Sweet First, we'll talk a little bit more history of the song itself, and also listen to a little bit of the song and also do

dramatic reading of the lyrics. Joe has to do the dramatic, so he's going to actually I've I've actually got William Shat to show up and do that. Oh thank god. I've been wanting the shot in studio for so long. So I wait for that knock. We're going to play a little bit of the song, probably about fifteen seconds. I guess skip it. If you're scared, if you're a little stitious, skip it. Yeah, you know, I'm not superstitious, but I'm a little stitious. Okay, you kids in your

new fangled words. Anyway, here we go. Here's fifteen seconds of the very beginning of this song. You're back, good, you made it out the other side. He congratulations, out of the oven. I don't know if you can say that or not, but we'll just keep going. So the song that we've been talking about is actually kind of two different songs. And that's not just the little bit that we talked about a second ago. This goes further than that. So the original song, we're just gonna say

gloomy one day, the five version original song. Fine will ignore the old lyrics that. We'll ignore that for just a minute. Okay, people to suicide, right, Well, I don't know. In ninety six, Hal Kemp, he's an American jazz musician. If you don't know who he has, look I'm up. Awesome awesome artist recorded a new kind of americanized version of the song. Um and the lyrics were by Desmond Carter, who was worked often with Gershwin and Um. It was really just a staple of American music at the time.

A few years later, Billy Holliday recorded the same version, the same americanized version, Yeah, exactly, and it became a huge hit. A lot of people really covered this thing that. Yeah, there have been a ton of versions. I would encourage you, if you are curious, to go out to the Wikipedia page, which I know is everybody's favorite thing that I say, But go out to the Wikipedia page and just look.

I there were more than I bothered to count. I actually have a feeling that this is the go to we need a tenth track on the record, so hey, just record this and sticking in there. Yeah, like it's just it's a filler. I gotta tell you, though, I did. Really, I'm not I have. I've never really appreciated Billy Holiday that much, and I really liked her version of it. I loved Billy Holiday what I expected of it from her. Having listened to some of her stuff before, I was like, oh, gosh,

it's actually she actually did a good job. I should listening to it. I haven't. I haven't heard it. So of note, you know, Billy Holiday did a did a version of it. Um Rach Charles did a version of it. Eda Jones, Elvis Costello did a version of it, did a version of it. Peter Wolfe did a cop a cover of it. I think Shad O'Connor did a version of it. Sarah McLaughlin did a cover of it, of course, Sarah mcla course she did. I think even Um York

might have even done. She did a version of that's actually the only version that I'm I'm not a fan of York. How do you say it? By the way, I know I'm screwing it up every time I want to say York, Is that correct? I just I think that's wrong. Yeah. I actually really liked her version. It was and I'm not a fan of her work either. She actually she recorded it for do you guys know who? Do you guys know who? Alexander McQueen is not Steve McQueen, No, No,

Alexander McQueen. He's like one of my favorite fashion designers of all times ever died in a two thousand ten and that's Byork performed it recorded that the gloomy Sunday for his funeral or his commemoration. Got it? Uh, you know it's funny, is I didn't know it was. It was in the soundtrack of Wrist Cutters. Have you guys seen that movie. It's just a I mean, it's a pretty prolific song. Yeah, it's it's rist Cutters colon a love Stories. It's a great movie. That's where I learned

the phrase the p i C the people in charge. Oh, I like it every now and again. You'll hear me. It's got to be the p i C. It's people in charge. We've just always glossed over that. Well, yeah, you two ignored because you didn't get my reference, got it? Well? Okay, So the interesting thing about Billie Holliday's version of this song is that reportedly the BBC actually banned it from being played on any of their radio stations. They banned music in general, didn't they know, I mean the love

band thing. Yeah, don't worry, I mean okay, so they said that it was they cited detriment. It was detrim detrimental to um morale. Yeah, morale like wartime morale. But I'm don't worry. They have lifted the band. Um, they lifted it in um. So you know, just just when Gland was really recovering from the war, the wheels of

bureaucracy grind slowly. Well, apparently they didn't grind so slowly when they were banning the thing, because they happen pretty Yeah, let's go ahead and just take a moment to listen to Joe dramatically read the lyrics. Okay, we gotta wait for Shot to show up. Didn't show up. I'm going to do it, but I'm going to use his voice, his voice. Okay, this so for everyone. This is the original, original, original, if the one that's actually called The World is ending? Yeah, okay,

autumn is slipping and the yellowing leaves. He died in the land of human love. Who was in the autumn wind? Crying tears? My eye has a new spring. Does not expect our hope in vain. I cry and suffer in vain, heartless, greedy and bad people. He died of love. End of the world, the end of hope. Cities are destroyed, shrapnel is making music. People's blood and meadows are colored red. They're people on the streets everywhere. Once again, I said

another quiet prayer, sir. People are fallible and make mistakes. It's the end of the world. That wasn't too melodramatic there, Yeah, you went from Shatner to a bit irish to then just reading that was that was the complete and total, full range of Joe. That's why I'm not an actor. That I mean, so the lyrics are for what was

going on in the time. It totally makes sense what was going on in the world in general and thirty Yeah, and as I understand it, actually the composer and his girlfriend had just broken up and he was pretty cut up about it. Was it the composer or the second composer who had broken up with his girlfriend? I think it was the composer. I thought it was the second one who had just gone through a breakup, you know. Frankly, I don't know. They may have both happened. Stranger things

have happened. I mean, this composer did seem to be a pretty unhappy guy in general. He was They called him just like a staunch nationalist. He you know. So this song made it big in America, so he had the rights to a lot of royalties in America, but he had to go claim them and he just refused. He said, no, um, I'm only going to make money of this in Hungary. It's he only play. I'm going to make money off this, and the royalties there were

like pretty beautiful. He actually he was kind of you know, Van go Esque in his in his time because people kind of liked what he was doing. But he wasn't really collecting royalties, and he basically died in poverty, so too bad. He seemed like he was not the happiest of guys anyway. The lyrics that were rewritten so that it became the official gloomy Sunday version of the song, Um, we should probably listen to those two because that's the one that was getting played every Yeah, so Joe, do

you want to do the owners again? Still was in here, damn on a sad Sunday with a hundred white flowers. I was waiting for you, not just kidding. He's doing it in reverse this time he's eating a monotone, then irish. Then yeah, on a sad Sunday with a hundred white flowers. I was waiting for you, my dear, with the church prayer that dream chasing Sunday morning, the charity of my sadness returned without you. Ever since then, Sundays are always sad.

Tears in my drink, and sorrow was my bread. Sad Sunday, Last Sunday, My dear, please come along. They were leaving me priest coffin catalfac herst cloth. Even then, flowers will be awaiting you, flowers and coffin under blossoming trees. My journey be the last. My eyes will be open so that I can see you one more time. Do not be afraid of my eyes, as I'm blessing you, even in my death. Last Sunday. Also super happy. This is

such a cheery song. What I love is in the in the in the song is that not just the whole moping, that's the whole thing. But they have to have the church bell in there, which is super creepy and again very few real Yeah, yeah, yeah I can. Did you guys ever watch that that internet cartoon Happy Tree Friends? Remember that? Yeah? We started watching that reason this.

This is the kind of thing that I could see them. Actually, the guys who make that are the folks that make that making this into an episode which would just be another gore fest as all of their things. Absolutely, Okay, you've seen it before, you just don't remember it. I've showed them to you. I watched all of Oh no, I do remember that that was that was like three or four or five years. All bunnies and squirrels get cut in half, remember that. Yeah, this is that sort

of thing. Yeah, and it's probably worth just briefly reading the Billy Holiday lyrics as well, because apparently we're padding episodes these days. Well they added, they added, it's different. It's not any fourth um they well, no, the I thought it was that the second version was added to. In other words, they took at the end, they added another is it a stanza? Is that correct? They added a fourth stanza, which essentially made the whole thing sound as if it was a dream the singer was having

instead of actually committing suicide or killing themselves. Well, this is all alluding to, well, why don't I read the Billy Holiday version because you know, these back past two lyrics that we've read are obviously just translated from Hungarian, so they're not written to be a song in English necessarily, which is why we have this americanized version which was meant to be sung in English, so it has a

different tone to it a little bit. So why don't we just read this real quick and I'll read it, because you know it's Billy Holliday so check me. I'm not gonna change my voice at all. Please do your best chat. No, Sunday is gloomy. My hours, uh sorry, Sunday is gloomy. My hours are slumberless. Dearest, the shadows I live with, our numberless little white flowers will never waken you, not where the black coach of sorrow has taken you. Angels have no thought of ever returning you.

Why would they be angry if I thought of joining you? Gloomy Sunday. Gloomy is Sunday with shadows. I spend it all my heart, and I have decided to end it all. Soon. There will be candles and prayers that are said I know. Let them not weep, let them know that I'm glad to go. Death is no dream, for in death, I'm caressing you with the last breath of my soul. I'll be blessing you, Gloomy Sunday dreaming I was only dreaming. I wake up to find you asleep in the deep

of my heart. Dear darling, I hope that my dream has never haunted you. My heart is telling you how much I wanted you. Gloomy Sunday. So yeah, they added the stands of like it was just a dream. But that's for takeing real dark. Oh yeah, it's definitely about suicide, as are these other two versions of the song. And

I think in every language the song is about killing yourself. Well, and I think I personally this is my personal opinion, and I am pretty sure that that that last stands about making it into a dream is added because if you remember the way censorship was when like the when Billy Holliday did her version, is that they couldn't just push that through the sensors. I mean it's like, um, there is This was ten or fifteen years later. There's

the Roy Orbison song. I want to say it's it's not Layla, but the one where he's he's getting oysters and he's swimming down with you know, it's it's the free dive and he gets his hands stuck in a clam and it bites down on him, and the whole song at the end is that it's him. It's everything's getting dark, it's getting cold, Like I'm amazed that got through the sensors because they were so they were so stern at the time. Yeah, exactly, remember that actually so

not happy in any any version of it. Definitely referencing suicide versions of it. So let's talk about the deaths that this song is supposedly responsible for. Thank you for getting supposedly, Yeah, no problem, What do you mean supposedly? Well, apparently eighteen suicides in Hungary had quote unquote close links with Gloomy Sunday. Uh. There was a Time magazine article called music calling the Suicide Song that was published in

UM March of nineteen thirty six. I read part of this article, but you can't get past two paragraphs without having subscription at Time, and I don't have a subscription at time broke, so um I did not purchase said subscription.

But luckily there are enough articles around the internet that have just totally you know, copy pasted from that article that I have the information In this article in from you know nineteen thirty six, they talk about Hungarian shoemaker by the name of Joseph Keller, and police were reportedly investigating his death and thinking that Gloomy Sunday was responsible for it because he left a note in which he quoted some of the lyrics from Gloomy Sunday. Okay, quote unquote.

Several bodies were found clutching the songs sheet music upon their suicides or upon their discovery they were floating in the river right in the Danube. Yeah that yeah, this this makes me wonder if maybe somebody was trying to it was actually murdering people, trying to frame the composer, and and it's like, imagine this frustration. He keeps killing people and planning this on them, and they keep saying,

oh my god, another suicide. Yeah, this is insane, it's crazy. Um. Two people reportedly shot themselves while listening to different bands play the song. There's some songs that that really do make you one. I know of plenty these that makes me want to stick my head in the oven. Is apparently at least one other person, but maybe more, had been found to have taken their own life while listening to Gloomy Sunday So Hungry band the song right rational Yeah.

And then you know, in the n eighteen thirties there were apparently attempted suicides and actual suicides that we were being reported in conjunction with Gloomy Sunday. As we said, the BBC did bann the song entirely and reportedly although I've never seen anything to corroborate this Reportedly, certain outlets in the US refused to play the song. That seems silly to me. Also, it was such a big hit, like Billy It's It's on one of Bill Holidays, like

Greatest Hits things. It was a huge song for her, and it's silly to assume that outlets were not playing the song. It not as though it's you know, two thousand and sixteen. People are downloading and like getting it anyway, even if the radio is not playing, that's not happening. Then the radio is playing it or people are pretty much not hearing it. Yeah, because records and a gramophone, we're not a cheap purchase. So it's not as if music was easy to get, not as easy as not

at all. Apparently, reportedly, there are more than a hundred deaths connected to Gloomy Sunday. This is a air quotes, yes death according to the Internet at this point. Yeah,

it's all according to the Internet. Okay. So I was gonna ask because I couldn't find any of the easily, and I admittedly just kind of thought about it earlier today and started trying to find uh, you know, you can find in Google sometimes copies and newspapers, but The problem is is that I don't know how to read Hungarian, so I was trying to find something that translated that. So it was it was just it was utter a

crap show of my research process here. But it does have either of you seen anything that actually points to actual reports or newspaper accounts. Now? Is it all just summations on the internet. Um, for the most part. I mean they reference, you know, in a blah blah blah article in you know, this year a woman named Lauren drowned herself in the river clutching you know, I'm I'm making that one up. I'm just pulling that from pieces. But they'll say they'll cite their sources, but you know,

you always fall the link in there. It's like link not found and it's you know, to a PDF that was scanned at one point of an article in Hungarian and you just have to take people's word for it. Um, I'm disinclined to believe most of the stories. Well. Yeah. The thing about it is too is this if there's a connection, and there might be in a sense, but it's a reverse connection. Because people who are depressed tanty like they like to pressing music, you know, they will

seek that stuff out. Yeah, totally, So not it necessarily cause of it. No, there's definitely there's definitely bands that you know, there's rough times in all of our lives where you've you look back through your your music collection. I was about to say CD collection. You look back through your music collection and you're like, wow, I have like five albums from this one bad and that is such a melancholy batch. Well, I even have it from I've had the what is it it's Deathcat for Cutie.

Remember all of their stuff was That's all A lot of that is the same vein. I was a teenage girl in the early two thousands, so yes, I remember that. I listened to it all the time, and you know, I thought it was great, and then they did other stuff. But after now I look back and like, oh, it comes up on what I'll listen to my stuff on randomly, like that that one about We'll go together in the dark. Yeah, that I'll follow you into the dark. I've that's real

and h it's uh. There's another one that they cover that's by um Iron and Wine, who is also it's not Iron and Wine, that's the album name. Who is it that has the album is called Iron and Wine. No it is. It is Iron and Wine. I'm I'm getting it all mixed up with the actual artist's name. But anyway, you know they he's saying something which I know was then to cover. So it's the same thing. It's like one of those things that just hopscotches backthrough time.

So why don't we talk about theories we are? It's pretty easy, Jay, I don't know where they already. There's kind of like two, three, maybe four. I think there's two. Okay, I don't see your Little Black Book anywhere, so I'm gonna go ahead and solidly say there's two. Well, no, I all I remembered about the stories was York and then I was done. Yeah, I'll in a third. Okay. So the first theory is that, yeah, this song has some kind of supernatural ability to drive people to kill themselves.

I don't have any evidence to backing up putting it out there. Yea there. I listened to it and I didn't see I didn't feel my suicide quotient rising personally. Yeah, I would think that if this was true in ninety five and thirty six, when it was on when the Billie Holiday version was playing, there would be droves of people falling out of buildings as they were compelled to end their lives. I mean that there's not a whole

lot of support. This is um This is one of those anecdotal stories to me, well full of I knew this person and they were listening to this gloomy music all the time, and I saw this record in their house after they had taken their own life. I mean to add to that, if we're just gonna sit and debunk the latest recording of this song is like two

thousand fifteen. It's been popularized in the modern era in the two thousand's, in the nineties, there have been recordings that have been popular and it's not as though we're seeing a huge uptick in suicides in the demographic that's listening to those songs. Well yeah, but they're saying, I think the theory was that the original nineteen thirty five

version the originals. I mean, it's is the one that's got the special you know note Senate that make But I think there are a lot of people who listen to this song because of this mystery. And uh wait, I figured out how we can we can verify this. All we have to do is get Usher to to re sample the original version and do his own track over the top and see if if it has any power. I feel like we need to have a conversation about the last time that Usher had a song that was

even played on the radio. That's to have a lot of conversation about that, because his music is so good, so he will be the nail in the coffin no pun intended. I think that probably we need to get a government grant. We need to like put together studies, sample size about a hundred thousand people who will force to listen to the song over and over again. We'll see how many kill themselves. Yeah, this is not what

we're doing. And by the way, if anybody has taken it that way, we are not making light of suicide now. We are making light of the story itself. If anything, we are making heavy of the fact that there's a lot that goes into one's decision to kill themselves and the fact that listening to a song once or twice could drive someone to suicide is absurd. Well it is. And like and like I said earlier, I think that when you're depressed, do you want to listen to depressing music.

I agree, yeah, and that is usually the depression itself is one of the key factors, not the music that you listen to. So hey, actually, while we're talking about the depression, let's talk about the second where you are what else is happening. Let's think about what else is happening societally around the world. In the thirties, it's the

Great Depression. People were killing themselves at a higher rate and reporting being you know, sad and having nothing to live for, and also starving and being really depressed about the state of the world. And I just I think it's silly to think that because somebody had the lyrics to a song in their note, that that song should be responsible for their suicide. Yeah, I think so. I think those are good lyrics, man, Like they express a

really horrible, painful sentiment in a beautifully eloquent way. I say that about the first version in terms of what was going on globally time for the second version, Like the second version, I feel is it's almost a selfish set of lyrics. I have this pain, so I'm going to write not that having pain is selfish, but like taking and rewriting something just so you can have your own bit go over something that is obviously aimed at

a much larger problem. So that's why I feel the first one is actually very applicable for the timely Yeah, yeah, well no, there's not the third theory yet because there's something else about the time that we need to talk about, which is initially a lot of the suicides were happening in Hungary, uh and in in a general sense, in the Germanic States and where the suicide rates are higher, where the suicide rates are naturally higher, and the act of suicide at the at that time and at that time,

and also within the culture, the act, you know, taking your own life is not frowned upon. It's not looked down upon as why did you do this? This is such a you know, in in Western culture there is kind of that you're doing something to yourself and everybody else is paying the price, whereas in that culture it was more of a noble act. It's almost like seppuku.

In Japanese culture, it was it was very it was very honorable to into a degree, so that that plays a huge role in well, there's a huge suicide rate and by the way or not, but there's a larger suicide rate in the culture in general. So oh, by the way, then the song comes out, let's just put A and D together and call it a pair. Yeah. So,

I mean, that's that's the theories. A third one that was not theory, and that is it was a serial killer who was planting copies of the lyrics on his body, on the bodies, and and because maybe they've been maybe there actually had been a few stories. Maybe there were stories out about how this song came out and this by my friend bought this record and listened to it a lot, that it killed himself and if you have to tell the stories like that, making another Hungarian press.

And then a serial coler decides, well, what the hell you know, I'll just plant records and copies of lyrics on people and after I had murdered them drowning in the Danube. Yeah, so okay, that's the third one, absolutely unsupported by facts. So wait, by the way, but where the bodies were expected to have gone into the Danube? Was there a smiley face painted anywhere in the area? No, stop, no, we're not going to go there. Um, just as a final fun factum, is this really a fun fact It's

not a fun fact, okay, Roschos our composer. I'm sorry, I'm really sorry, you guys. He actually killed himself. Um, he tried to do so by jumping out a window, but he survived. So he strangled himself with a wire in the hospital a few days later. And he I mean it was he was pretty young. It was I think in thirty six or thirty seven, maybe definitely before forty. Well the person who I thought, the guy who rewrote the lyrics, also committed suicide by throwing himself out of window.

But he was at age sixty three year sixty eight something like. He was a very old man, remember, ye, very old. I guess maybe for that maybe for that at maybe that's very old, you know, sixties seven sixty eight. Joe says, wait, that's not that's not that's not old. Um. Yeah,

so that's the whole story. I think. I think it's just situational and it's stilly to blame us song anecdotal and yeah, yeah, but yeah, don't listen to the song whatever you do, or the other one that Joe didn't want you to listen to, yeah, whichever with that one by Royal Orbison. Yeah, Okay, so if you want to see some of the research that we've done. Um, or if you, I guess need a way to listen to episodes, you're listening to it, so I figured you know how

to listen to it. But yeah, I think actually, if you want to, like, if you want to read do any research on this one, go watch cat videos instead, because you know pretty much everything there is to be No you officially do, and we've literally said, um, anyways, our website where there's some research. If you want to figure out where we found this stuff, or if you want to see that list, maybe we'll post the Wikipedia. We usually don't, but maybe you will this time. The

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that we release, we don't charge for it. That's that's what keeps this from working for the man. Yeah, exactly, Um, what is it? Poc I no I was talking about the boss man's daughter. Okay anyway, Um, Steve's trying to make relevant references that none of you are going to get because he's okay, fine, just in the episode. Okay, anyway, So we're going to get out of here before Steve kills me and play some weird music on my body's so strange. I don't understand what's happening. Bye, guys, don't

listen to that song. You'll kill yourself.