Thinking Sideways: Frosty

here's open. Everybody gets all the cool presence they're dreaming of, you know, whether it's a nuclear weapon or or world peace whichever. Yeah, what just come on. If you listened, if you've been listening to the show for more than a year, I guess at this point you know, Or if you've binge listened, I guess it's all of our episodes. You know that we like to do uh themed shows

around pretty much every holiday of the year. You do Halloween themes, and we do Christmas themes or winter holiday themes. There are actually a lot of Christmas mysteries there are, and so this this year we decided to try to take on a big one, and that is we're going to talk about Frosty A K. A the Snowman. Yea, indeed, Frosty. I assume most of our listeners have heard of Frosty, but if you haven't, here's the skinny. In fifty, a

song was released about this supposedly enigmatic creature. Since the original, there have been many, many, many recordings of the song the original song. Um, lots of movies, yeah, lots of movies, lots of books, lots of merchandising partnerships with the Frosty franchise, and popular items like the holiday version of The Wears Waldo books. McDonald's did a partnership with Frosty for a while.

Frosty is big, Yeah he is, And officially the franchise of Frosty Story is owned jointly by DreamWorks Animation and with Warner Brothers TV. But we're not going to really talk about that because the thing is that's kind of the sanitized version of you know, the Disney version of the Fairy Tales. The real character appears to be a bit darker. Yeah, we it's it's kind of like the short version. It's like, we kind of know, the cliff

note version of Stories Life. And instead we're going to go kind of back to say fairy tales before the grand Brothers even got on to what they were, what they really were. Yeah, and that's what we're going to do with Frosty. Um, because you know, we don't we don't really know who he is. I mean, they say that magic made a snowman come to life, but I have a hard time believing that. Yeah, we'll talk about that. And even if it wasn't my cat, where did the

magic hat come from? Yeah? Exactly, So, yeah, you do. You guys just want to jump into theories on how he existed, really, because there are a couple of different theory sections will do, right, Yeah, they're really kind, there's a whole Yeah, we've got a ton of theory, so we should probably start there. Yeah, so why don't we

just dive right in? To steal a term from Steve, I guess I'm up because I have theory number one, which is, when you read the story of Frosty, you'll you'll notice that the whole story comes from a kind of a very small locale and then it spread really kind of virally over one or two winters. Well, the whole thing about Frosty and all these crazy things he does. To me, it's pretty simple, is that he didn't actually exist. Instead,

he was kind of a group hallucination. What okay, what what does everybody do at the holiday season when they go to where Christmas parties your family get together? Is what a drink? Exactly okay? And Edna knows how to make great eggnog because she loves to put a lot of booze in it. No, but there are some teetotalers who don't believe in putting the booze in, and they evidently may have been the ones that we're aging it. And so it's kind of a situation that's very similar

to what's the bread mold is ergo? So same thing. All these people go to this giant party and they all drink this rancid eggnog and they all hallucinate. There's probably one guy who was in a top hat and a scarf running around having a high old time while he was stoned out of his brain too, and they all would he's a snowman, it's so crazy. And then he took his hat off and he didn't look the same anymore. Story solved. So that is that is where

I think the simple version may have come from. And I mean there's a few things where you you see some stuff about the effects of this mold. But well, yeah, we talked to it when we talked about with the dancing. Yeah yeah, it's also the Mary Celeste. Yeah yeah, yeah, people see some weird stuff, like everybody would have had to have had it, right, if it's a big party, everybody's having it. But then also, you know, I mean the whole prosty thing, it didn't just go on for

the space of a few hours at a party. Is like it went on for a long time and Frosty was hanging out for a while, right, Well, have you ever heard of a thing called a flashback? Yeah, these people may have been like an acid trip kind of having a little flashback, and so they all think, well, yeah, I see in human memory is so fallible that it may have been that they thought it was days when

they were really just kind of Yeah. So that's that's my I've you know, had nights where it's been like, man, it seems like we've been hanging out for like twelve hours and it's been twenty minutes. Yeah, okay, okay, that's a doll party. Yeah. Yeah, So that's my that's my first hit. Theory about it. Okay, all right, well I have another theory, um, but that's not the magic hat. Let's let's consider the magic hat and why it's so wrong. First of all, as as Devon has already said, where

did it come from? As an animated device, it's got some pretty serious shortcomings. Frosty, Frosty was around for a while. And supposing you're Frosty and you're crossing the street and a puff of wind knocks the magic hat off your head, and now you're back to being an inanimate object in the middle of the street, and of course the car is going to come along in three seconds. How Murphy's

alot works. Yeah, so markin, Yeah, he was around for a while, and and you would think the hat would be like getting knocked off his head all the time, unless he had like a cylindrical snow dome, you know what I'm talking about, Like the top of his head had a cylinder in it that the top hat fit on. Yeah, it could be that would stop the wind issue. Yeah, but here's here's another there's another a reason to not

believe it. And let's just say if they if these things existed, or just one of them is somebody would have made a five hundred foot tall city destroying snowman a long time ago, and we've never seen one because it's it is all little kids that are around Frosty. Yeah, and little kids love to make that kind of yeah they do. Oh yeah, I mean I would make it.

I would make the biggest snowman possible. So I think that Frosty was actually something else entirely, and there is actually some support for this in the town Moved, of all places. He's inanimate, then it comes to life, and that sounds an awful out Like a golem. I don't know what am is. I mean, I know what goalm is, but I don't know what a go yeah golem is. In Jewish folklore, it's uh, it's when somebody wants to make a creature that can be sort of a helper,

that kind of thing, or a defender. They can put one together out of like mud or dust or whatever. And then and then if you know that, if you know the right magic words, so you can actually turn this into an animated creature. I want to say it was there. It's always there's something that's always written on the forehead night. Yeah, I can't remember what it is.

But that's how they bring it to life. Yeah, and so a golm can be really made of anything, even snow, and then you have your you have your little helper defend or whatever. So so Frosty could have been made of snow and been animated to help. He didn't. Yeah, he didn't really actually do much. He didn't do much other than playing with the kids. It seems like, although I guess around the holidays, that's kind of what you want, right, You're like, okay, kids, get out of the house, go play.

I have so much work to do. Is that not a thing? Yeah, no, that definitely is the thing. But here's my problem with the steery Joe is that the goal doesn't speak. Yeah, Frosty nattered on continually. Yeah, this is according to the story anyway. Yeah, he did speak, so that that is a kind of a weakness in the theory. Although you never know. I mean, it's just like zombies and the movies have have sort of morphed over the years and now they move fast. Oh they

used to be slow and bumbly and now they Olympic speeds. Yeah, exactly, So different attributes they yeah, they you know, in different ways. And stuff. Yeah, so the goal and may have evolved just like zombies did. Possibly, yeah, possible. Yeah. Yeah, so that's my theory. I'm sticking with it. Okay, Well, prepared to decide otherwise because I actually did my research, uh and found found some experts here and I, um, while you know, I did my homework or I'm lazy, whichever,

How did you find these guys? Well, you know, I did a little digging. Um, I found some historic records and you know, somebody suggested that these guys might know what they were talking about. So, um, I actually gave him a call. I did recording. Can you want to just um, you just want to listen to? Yeah, this is Justin and errand from the Generation one. Oh hey, guys, it's it's Devin from Thinking Sideways. Who is this really you guys, It's Devin. It's it's Devin from Thinking Sideways.

You know that other podcast that you get compared to all the time, and we get compared to you all the time, and we're like best friends. Now apparently I I need your help. I hear you guys have some information on Frosty a k a. The Snowman. Can you tell me about him? Like who he was or anything about him. So do we have, like, what evidence do we have on Frosty the Snowman. I I don't know.

I didn't really do very much research. I kind of did a little digging and then found you guys, so can you can can you guys help me out here? We don't have a corn cob pipe or a hat, so some things are lost to history, so there's no physical evidence now the physical evidence has gone. What we do have, though, is a song. If you remember, not too long ago, we cover the McMartin pre school scandal

and a song figured pretty heavily into that case. So here I think this song, Frosty the Snowman, is even more important to this case than the other song was to the McMartin that that song was written in the early nineteen fifties. Maybe the lyrics will tell us something about this, So it goes, Frosty the Snowman was a jolly, happy soul, so we know he's jolly and he has a soul, so he's a being or he's alive right, with a corn cob pipe and a button nose and

two eyes made out of coal. Well coal back then, back in the fifties, you had coal mining and you had coal burning furnaces. So I guess this is sort of his trying to relate to the common man, the workerman, the blue collar worker, right, hard working man. Yeah, you gotta give respect to Frosty already, right, Yeah. And he's got a button nose. I mean that's clothing, you know. Maybe it's good for a sniffing clothing. I don't know.

Frosty the Snowman is a fairy tale. They say he was made of snow, but the children know how he came to life one day, so the children know, how did they know? How were they being questioned about this? Who was questioning the children? I don't know that they're being questioned. It almost sounds like it's a secret they're supposed to keep the children know, the adults do not know. That's a little suspicious, very suspicious. Now I'm not feeling

so good about Frosty now, okay, Uh. There must have been some magic and that old silk hat they found magic hat to entice children. Kids love magic, or maybe it's magic mushroom silk road, I don't know. For when they placed it on his head, he began to dance around the magic hat induced is dancing could be another drug reference. I'm not sure. Well, now it really is

starting to sound like drugs. Okay, it was written in the fifties, right, well, what would people think that was before before I'm not supposed to dance like that right now. It was a little taboo. I mean, this is before footluc even. Oh, Frosty the Snowman was a lie as he could be. And the children say he could laugh and play just the same as you and me. So he's identifying with them. He's saying, hey, that's cool. You know,

I may be big, but I'm one of you. Yeah, but it is a little weird for this adult male guy to be only playing with children. And he's kind of blue collar. I mean, if he's Michael Jackson, that's one thing. But I don't know if Frosty has enough money to be playing with little kids and get away with it. Uh, Frosty clumsy as he could be. See him lopping along off he goes on an icicle spree with a happy song. Rosty the snow Man, he's clumsy, he likes to trip and fall. Uh, maybe put his

hands somewhere. They don't need to be. I don't know. I mean, it's we we got problems. He's falling down or falling into people. Yeah, it's pretty clumsy. He knew the sun was hot that day, so he said, let's run and we'll have some fun now before I melt away. He knew the sun was hot that day. The heat is on. The heat is on, but the heat is onto him. Yeah, he knows his time what these children is limited. Let's just say that. Down to the village

with a broomstick in his hand. Okay, there's more children in the village. Possible weapon involved or a spanking tool. Yeah, running here and there all around the square, saying catch me if you can. That's cute. He led them dow. He's luring them. Yeah, like, oh, let's play this game. Catch me, catch me and run down the basement. Oh oh yeah, they're grabbing t he he yeah, this is

this isn't good so far man. He led them down the streets of town, right to the traffic cop and only paused a moment when he heard him haller, stop, Frosty has just been given a lawful command by a police officer, and a police officer if he suspects that crime is being committed. He has the right to stop you and terry frisk you and terrogate you. He has the right, and you have to obey his command. So he sees Frosty with a group of children that he's

not related to. He's not their guardian. Frosty the Snowman had to hurry on his way, but he waved goodbye, saying, don't you cry, I'll be back again someday. I think Frosty just refused a lawful and from an officer, and we could consider him fleeing from a scene or evading arrest. He didn't stop, right, Well, the idea is that he's not planning to stop, but he could be caught. And I think he's telling everyone don't worry one way or another. I'll work my way back. I'll be back. Well, whether

he's caught or whether he gets away. Okay, But the next line is thumpety thump, thump, thumpity thump thump. Now is this the sound of the nightstick hitting him? Well, it's either that or you know the sound a heavy If you make a big heavy snow block or something and throw it at the snow, it makes the thump. Yeah. Yeah, So there's a battle here. He's getting slammed down with concrete. Either this is a really vicious battle, either the cops

winning or Frosty's winning. But I think with the thumpety thump thump, maybe I'm reading too much, but to me, it sounds like someone is consisting stantly winning here. So either the Night's Stick is working or Frosty is working. And if if I had to guess, it's the Night's Stick, I think that's if this has a happy ending. Well, it says, look at Frosty go. Is that to jail? No, look at Frosty go, to me implies that Frosty is moving under his own powers. So to me, I think

maybe he sort of separated into his three parts. And then it went sumbody thump thump down onto the police officer and then he's like knocked out. And then watch Frosty go. He's heading for the hills. He's running for the hill. Well it says thumpty thump thump over the hills of snow. I mean, I really like the movie Scarface, and there was hills of snow in that movie. I'm not sure what was the original question. Were we supposed to I don't know what. Frosty just doesn't sound like

a good person to me. Why Frosty, why did he do it? He shall we have we have an idea of why he did it, but it makes us uncomfortable even to think about it. Right, Yeah, Frosty is not so nice now, no? Right? No, So I hope that answer answers your guys questions, and thanks for asking, and you all have a merry Christmas. Yeah, what's in the pipe? Frosty? Thanks you guys. Um, that was really helpful. Have a good Christmas. Merry Christmas. Say hi to Val and the

kids for me. Show off so they seem to know what they're talking about, right, sort of a little. I mean, they bring up some good points, I will give them. That song sounds like he could have been an actual guy. What it's suggesting that Frosty was some sort of a per for that he was a drug pusher or what. Yeah, that he was like a like a drug guy, like

a drug type guy. Is this why I've suddenly noticed that both of you have been saying Frosty a k a. The Snowman, that's his name, Yeah, as in the snowman, as in you know that was his code name as in blow. Yeah, okay, I did not know that part. Okay, yes, I know one of the kids like him so much. They have so much energy, So I guess, um, I can do we feel like we need to come to a consensus in the room about what Frosty was in order to go forward or do? Are we okay with

just thinking different things? I don't know that it does any good because the fact of the matter is is the media industrial complex is going to push the he was a snowman thing and it doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter to us. I guess it matters to us and our listeners. But let's face it, you know, I mean, no matter what truth we come up with, it will be Yeah. Well, I don't know. I think it's probably

worth coming up with the truth. I mean, I I think that um, guys from generation why, they definitely know their stuff. And yeah it was but you know, they said that Frosty was kind of a pusher kind of guy. Yeah, but it appears to me that he actually was a snowman. I don't have animated snowman. I just don't. All right, well, and that's not you know, he can be a snowman and still be a drug pusher. That's true. It could

be a snowman dealing snow. So okay, well then I mean what evidence do we I mean, what do we know about Frosty? What happened to Frosty? Well, yeah, that's according to the song, he ran a foul of the of the town's traffic cop and then left town, promising to be back someday. But of course, you know, in town, out of town, sooner or later, the temperature goes up, Frosty melts. Um. You know, so you couldn't have survived

that season. Yeah, just seasonal change, seasonal change. Yeah. So, but so that is one that you know that's kind of the prevalent theory, is that temperature rise and frost emails. Actually, you guys, Um, when I was talking to Justin and Aaron, they actually mentioned that they Yeah, the gen Y guys, they they know someone who might actually have kind of the inside scoop about what actually happened to Frosty. Um, I have a stone over. Do you want to give

him a call? Okay, so wait, but this guy, this guy is really if I remember this because I saw these emails going back. Yeah, then this guy. He's a little squirrely about who he is. Okay, but like, okay, but we have it's a podcast, we can edit. Okay. So so because I know that I saw this email, is that he wanted to be completely anonymous, So we're gonna keep this anonymous for him. Yeah, of course we are. Okay, so so you but you have to edit it. So

let's just call him up right now. Okay, Hey, Mike, that's me. Oh hey Mike, it's it's Devin from Thinking Sideways. Um. We email back and forth a couple of times. UM, we are giving you a call recording right now. UM, hopefully that's okay. I know you're well, we'll edit. It's fine. Um, but we've we have some questions about Frosty because you said that you had some infune that you would talk to us about it. Now there's we've got a bunch

of questions. Yeah, as like, as you know, we were covering the story of Frosty a k a. The Snowman, and uh you know, as you are well aware of the standards, story is that Frosty was done in by a temperature change and he essentially melted. But I've heard rumors on Redd at in other places that Frosty perhaps met us in a different way. Yeah, listen, um, yeah, I'm only talking to you guys because I don't want you know, I just I don't think this is right

what they did to that boy. Um do you mean Frosty. Yeah, you gotta promise me, though, you're gonna keep my name out of this, because if they did that to him, imagine what they're gonna do to me. You know, I have house of family, a dog. We will we won't, we won't let it out. Yeah, we'll delete your any references to your name and everything else in Sword and Scale podcast. Okay, so what's what's going on? What happened? Well, you know, the the official answers that nobody really knows

for sure. Um, what we do know is that on July one, the day after Jimmy Hoffa was killed, a fourteen year old boy by the name of Sammy Johnson he was skateboarding when he found a carrot near an industrial food packing warehouse just outside of Detroit. Oh my god, what about two little lumps of coal? Well, I'll get to that. The carrot was just sitting there among a bunch of boxes. I mean, how do you explain that. Two weeks later they did find two pieces of coal

near the Alameda Chili cook off. How far away from the Carrot Well, that's on the other side of the country. Oh my god. But they were just sitting there next to a pile of logs. After four days they found a couple of twigs or the home of seventy six year old World War One veteran by the name of Frank Buckles, just one outside and he found him there. Um, those were his arms. Well that's what some people think.

It was in western Pennsylvania. It was a bungalow and the arms or twigs were just as scarted there like a pile of trash. Now you tell me who mutilates a body like that and leaves parts of it all over the country. Uh, you know, if you ask me, there's only one outfit that could do it, and that's the Mob. Do you have any proof of this? What I didn't tell you is that next to each of these grizzly body parts there was a puddle, almost like they were trying to send a message. You know. Whatever

Frosty did, he was weighing over his head. So how did Frosty get involved? With the mob. He was doing some low level stuff at first, you know, collecting bets. Uh, he was a bookie for a while in the Fuller Park area. Everything was working out, you know, pretty good for him. He had a couple of ceedy clients though, and one of them decided he wasn't gonna pay up.

I mean, Frosty is a cold dude. But uh, you know, even though he has got that bit of an ominous stare at him with those beady black eyes, there wasn't much to back it up. I mean, with those twig like arms and not a lot of upper body strength. Not really now, I couldn't really hold it down, you know. The funny The funny thing is, I remember old Frosty. There was this one time at the Green Door tavern. He he got pissed drunk and uh, he down half a bottle of jack. He was going around challenging bar

patrons to an arm wrestling match. That worked out well, Yeah, he got his ass kicked. So so I think after that, you know, he started having some problems with the boss um. He just seemed to keep messing up after that, Like he couldn't do anything right. Uh, it was just a matter of time before he got what was coming to him, and we all saw it coming from a mile away. So so what was he? He's a creepy mother he was? Yeah, Yeah, The question is is um? You know? Was he? Uh?

Was it Aliens? Was he? What's what's the what's the what's the Jewish creature? The golm? Was he a gollum? Perhaps? Dude said he was from Jersey? I mean, okay, so he wasn't he wasn't a snowman. Well, I think he was from Slovakia, to be honest with you. So I don't know what that makes him, or maybe Romania or Bulgaria or one of the e s. I don't. I don't really know. But you know, he would get lit up and sing these weird drinking songs from some Eastern

European language and it would creep everybody out. Plus the dumb hat. He would always wear it, you know, even at the time when everybody was wearing hats. It was unfashionable. Everybody worked for Doras, and he insisted on wearing that stupid top hat. That and that's scarf scarf. And he's definitely an out of town er, you know. But you know in answering your question about whether he was a snowman.

Rumor has it he was just an alcoholic. Uh. He up himself warm on those cold winter nights somehow, probably with a bottle of Scotch and a pipe filled with a little hashish. I don't know. Seventies seventies were weird, man, he had. They had all kinds of things back then. They had freaking genetically modified reindeer with glowing noses, you know, I remember that. Yeah, they had a snow wookie and uh,

just a lot of drugs. So Frosty tried them all. Yeah, and they I have heard definitely that his name actually kind of had two meetings, you know, the Snowman and all that stuff, and that's probably why it was so popular with the kids in the neighborhood. Was passing out lots of pretty blow. Well, he definitely had some on them. I can guarantee that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, thanks thanks for a green to talk to us, and thanks

for the info. I guess, uh yeah, no problem. Just remember just keep Mike from sort of scale out of it. I was never here. This is totally off the record, and I don't want I don't want snowman body parts showing up here in Florida? Are your body parts showing up here? Yeah? Well we'll definitely edit your name out of this. Thanks guys, Hey, thanks you, thank you for your time. Thanks for the information. No problem. Uh wow, came out of nowhere that I didn't that's an ugly anything.

Our emails did not. I didn't think that was gonna know, I don't think he wanted to commit anything to pen and papers. Yeah, I understand why, now, Yeah, this is this is big stuff. Okay, okay, so there's that. Yeah, yeah, so Frosty done in by the mob apparently, but there's another theory out there that he was not. He was not done in by the mob. He was done in by a mob. All different story. I know. This kind of contradicts our anonymous sources story, but actually in reality

it doesn't. It appears that there were actually two Frosties. Yeah I know, but one of them apparently wasn't imposture, which is which I'm not really sure. I'm going to say this other Frosty will call him Frosty too. He

did give his name his Frosty. This is, at least according to the guys over at two frosties dot Com, which has some interesting stuff on it, according to According to two frostis in late fall, the same year that the original Frosty showed up in town, word got back to the authorities of a bizarre animated snowman, and by authorities, I don't mean that traffic copy yielded at Frosty. I'm walking about the men in black of course, Yeah, yeah,

of course, yeah, of course. They were concerned that Frosty was possibly an alien or or a robotic alien probe disguised as a snowman, so they decided to bring him in for some questioning. On one night in early November, an unmarked van squeezed to a halt in front of Frosty, and five guys dressed in dark clothing jumped out, threw a blanket over Frosty, and buntled him into the back of the van. There was only one witness to this, which is one of the local kids, and nobody took

him seriously when he said that a snowman had been kidnapped. Yeah, a snowman, big deal. Yeah. The feed stock Frosty to a secure refrigerator facility outside of Schenectady in New York and held him there for over a month. Uh. And by the way, this puts the final nail in the coffin of the magic hat theory, because when it took him in, they took his personal effects. It took the hat, the scarf, the pipe. Yeah, it's it's weird. I Uh, I was looking at those we posted those photos in

the links, and it was it was interesting. It wasn't what I was expecting, No, not at all. Yeah, but but this is why they were too fraught there. Just believe they were too Frosties because while he was held for well over a month in this secure facility and um, at the same time, the other Frosty was out frolicking with the kids, and so it couldn't have been two places at once. So that's why we think that there was a second impostor Frosty. Yeah, yeah, okay, well back

back to his story. Uh, the interrogation techniques escalated as time went by because Frosty kept saying that he didn't know anything. And I'm pretty sure Frosty really didn't know anything. I mean, he was just snow man for guy's sake. Yeah. They started that with isolation and sleep deprivation. Frosty Frosty wasn't talking. Fed weren't taking that for an answer, so they started threatening again. They're threatened to turn up the thermostat.

They're threatened to turn him into snowballs. They's threatened to turn him into the beginnings of an igloo and Frosty. Yes, it was kind of ly and Frosty still it's just said, Hey, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't even know what an alien is, which is amazing because most people under that level of torture will start making something up just to appea. I guess it's almost suspicious. Yeah, yeah,

I know. Finally a frustration one of the one day, one of the agents leaned over the table and burned Frosty with a cigarette. But you can't what what do you mean? No, I mean like you can't you can't smoke indoor. I mean how long ago was this? It was long. There was decades ago. So you can't just like burn a guy with a cigarette. Apparently you can? Yeah,

when you can't, Yeah, yes, it's that guy. Kind of a rise out of Frosty, they decided they decided to go with that technique for a while, so they all live up unfiltered Lucky strikes cigarettes and started burning poor Frosty. And of course she's still and it's well documented. But if you go to two Frosty's dot com, they have a picture of the interrogation room right after the Frosty was sent back to his cell and there's drops of water on the floor from his burns. It means it's

just too Warner listeners. They are they're hard to look at. Yeah, yeah they are. They are kind of graphic. Um and uh, but even the torture didn't get anything from him. They considered water boarding, but it's kind of hard to water boards somebody in a refrigerated facility. It's the water freezes. Yeah, so and it's hard to I can't imagine how easy it would be the up water board of snowman anyway.

Would that be ice boarding at that point? Yeah, I don't know, just ba bashing his head into a sheet of ice. Yeah. Now that they didn't they didn't do the water boarding. They finally actually decided that Frosty actually didn't know anything and that he wasn't an alien. On top of that, the holidays were coming up and they all needed to do some shopping and plus they were tired of being cold all the time, so that job

had to be terrible. Yeah. So Frosty was dumped off just a couple of blocks from where he was kidnapped, and things went back to normal for a while. But this frost you'll call him Frosty two, Frosty two, was kind of a hard luck snowman. In the end, things really went south for him. On the evening of February ninety, a five year old boy, Robert Julius Irving, was found strangled to death. Yeah. Another young boy at Theodore, Robert Bundy, said that he had seen Irving with Frosty two an

hour or so before the body was found. What does that name sound familiar? Theodore Robert? But I don't know, No, it does sound familiar. To look it up. Yeah, I'll do that. Yeah. Uh So, an angry crowd of townsfolked armed with matches, propane torches, cigarette lighters, and soldering irons, surrounded Frosty, who had first pretended to be an an inanimate object. When he saw the lighters and torches, he started to plead his innocence, but it didn't do him

any good. Soon Frosty was reduced to a puddle. Not long after that to a frozen puddle, and the town folks, the townsfolk all decided that word of this must never get out, and so they vowed never to speak of it again, and the local Chamber of Commerce covered the whole thing up just like in Jaws. That's going to be terrible. I mean, the streets would run with water. That strets. We're running with water, Yes, it was. It was sad and why mob justice shouldn't be allowed to happen? Yeah,

I know, the town spoke. We're all spattered with water with frosties, yeah, across these prostitutes. I can't imagine how many showers it would take to get that off. I don't know. Yeah, and how do you how do you get the water stains out of your clothes? Yeah? Yeah, So anyway, life kind of went back to normal. We're

kind of got out. A few inquisitive reporters showed up, but they were met with basically a wall of silence and that and one especially persistent one was treated to a blanket party and on a wedgean Pretty soon the inquiries died off. It was apparent the townsfolks were just we're not going to talk about it, and the cover up was very comprehensive. Even the Wikipedia page has been sanitized. Yeah, nobody really knows about this anymore. No, no, no, it's not. Yeah,

so that's it. So I guess this is another mystery about Frosty too. So was he a murderer? Yeah? Was he was a murder? What do you guys think? Well, it depends on Wait are we talking about Frosty a k to Snowman, the first one or the second one we're talking about the Yeah, well, you know, it's kind of hard to say which one, which one was done in by the mob, and which one was done in by the mob of townsfolk. That there could be a

little confusion there. That's that's my problem is that when you see the photos of the Snowman, I can't tell because there's snow, which one is which. No. I mean, they both were the same hat, and they they're shaped identically, they're round balls of snow. That's a tough one, you know, it makes it hard to know which one is which. I just don't want to get the angry emails. Is well, though, I'm not being I'm not being a snowst Okay, all right, Okay,

aren't you are? All right? So you you can't tell the difference, which I guess means other people might not be a difference. I can tell you. That's what I'm getting at, is that I think that's part of the reason, part of the problem. Nobody really realizes that there too, because they look exactly the same to you, folks. It's entirely possible. It's entirely possible too that if Frosty committed this,

with this heinous crime, that it might have been. Maybe Frosty one committed the crime, but Frosty two is the one who unfortunately paid entirely Yeah, and you know, Frosty one was kind of a scheezy character, at least scording to our anonymous source. Yeah, so here's so you're the theories. So evidence in favor of Frosty was a murderer, Well, small bits of bark were found in the vicinity of

the child's body. That's Robert Irving and also theater Bundy said that when he saw Frosty and Irving together, Frosty had one of his stick hands on Irving's shoulder and kind of a creepy way. I don't know, I guess if I mean, you know you mentioned stick hands, right, I just don't know that that Frosty would have had the sheer upper body strength to commit a crime like was committed to uh irving, Yeah were sticks? Yeah yeah, so that's uh, that's kind of like that kind of

like makes it seem kind of unlikely. Yeah, it seems unlikely to me too. But if Frosty wasn't the killer, then who was? I don't know. I think that's an unsolved this is I don't know why we would bring this one up, because it seems like it's a show in and of itself. Yeah, I mean we should have held us back. Damn it. We'll resurrect it and flog it to death next Christmas. Yeah, yeah, so I would. I said, I'm gonna go with Frosty was not not the killer. And who knows who the killer was? I

mean yeah, I we'll never know. Probably, Yeah, I mean maybe Theodore Bundy, that kid, I don't know, Maybe he's around, maybe he'll maybe he knows something. We'll see if we can find him, should track him downbook, Yeah, everybody's on faceboard, thank you one of the two. Yeah, I don't know. I I just yeah, I agree, with Joe. I don't

think Frosty really could have done it. Yeah, yeah, that's well, that's the hard part, especially again there's two of them and it just yeah, maybe the two of them like ganged up on the kid. Maybe, but neither looked like they could you do anything of any note. Yeah, I think it. I mean, let's face it, people get murdered all the time, even in small towns, right, just regular old human beings. I think I might know if if Frosty did it. I think I know how Frosty might

have done it. Have you ever heard of Burking? Oh? Yeah, what Burking? You know who Burke and Hair are, right, they're the guys. It was eighteen hundreds of England killed a bunch of people to sell them to the schools for autopsies. And they were they tended to be inebriated people or sickly so, but they couldn't show any signs of being abused to. What these guys would do is they would sit on their chest to compress their lungs and then put their hand over their mouth and nose

and suffocate them. That's called after Birken Hair, it's called burking. Yeah, even possible that Frosty could have done that, especially to a little kid. Frosty would be heavy enough to cause that kind of damage. Yeah, but we're again, this is this isn't just suddenly. It's one of those things that hit me. But Robert Irving was actually there were signs of strangulation though, oh yeah they were okay, so actually okay, yeah,

but yeah, I guess it doesn't matter. The towns out there, Snowman, and as far as everybody's concerned, the mystery is solved. I don't think it really is. I don't either. I don't know if we'll ever know. Probably not. Um yeah, well, uh, if folks want to know more, they can find more. There's a lot out there. We'll put some of that information on our website. We should probably link that site,

or the two Frosti site. I'll definitely do that if you want to find the information that we're we've got up for you, and you can listen to this episode in any other episode and download or stream. The website is, of course, thinking sideways podcast dot com. You can leave a comment there if you've got other things that you want to say to us, or if you've got feedback episode suggestions. You can always go ahead and send us an email. That email address is Thinking Sideways Podcast at

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to Patreon dot com slash Thinking Sideways. Um, yeah, that's really all of the stuff that we've got there, so I guess we will enjoy your holiday a body next week, yeahry Chris, next year, next year. Yeah that's right. No, not quite, not quite. I'm sorry. Yeah, I we'll see you at the end of this year. Yeah, by everybody. Bye bye. They do not forget to edit Mike's name out right, No, no, no, no, that's why we're recording. This is going to kill me. Literally. Hello, this is

the voicemail for thinking sideways. We're not taking your call right now. Please leave a message after the beep. Your mother, your facking mother, soule mother. I told you to keep my name out of it. I told you not to say that it was Mike from Sword and Scale talking about how the Igo Ma killed Frosty the snow Man. What do you do You put it out there for everyone to hear. I'll tell you what. I'm going into hiding for the next couple of weeks. But when I

come back, you're on my list. You better watch out, you better not cry. Watch it back. H