Thinking Sideways: El Chupacabra!

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and welcome again to another episode of thinking Sideways. I am Steve as usual, joined by Oh, I think that's the first time that is stumping on somebody's toes and I don't know who it is. Well, what happened is Steve usually or any of us will look at whoever we want to call out. Second, and he shifted his eyes to me and then quickly to Devon, no, I looked at the gun on the wall. He was looking at you, but pointing at me. It was just yeah, okay, so let's do this again for the world. I am Steve.

I am joined by Joe and Devin. There we go. The confusion was I looked upwards and not at one would think we haven't been doing this for five years. Act has never happened. It has, but I think we cut it out. Okay, Well, listen, hey, we're as always going to talk about a mystery this week, but this week it is extra extra special because we are gonna talk about everyone's favorite cryptid. So, as always, this is a listener suggestion, but the CHUPI has been suggested by

each and every one of you at some point. So just imagine I'm saying your name right now. Yeah, here it is. Yeah, that was your name right there in the blank spot. Yea, and our heart was saying your name and um, now hey before Normally what we do is we jump right into the story, but we're not going to do that because listen, there is some important information that we want to share with you news about the show, but we're going to save that to the

very very end. And for those of you who are chronic fast forwarders, once the theory section is closed, don't do that. Listen. We've been shaming for years for doing that, but stop doing that, but today especially, don't do it. Yeah, don't. Okay. So that having been the covered, shame dolled out appropriately, let's talk about our dear friend Choopy. By the way, did did I forget to mention this is our five year anniversary? Did it? Is? I did forget? Because forget

it's our anniversary. We forgot the anniversary here in the doghouse. Mr Well, I forget to mention it, not that I forgot it? What about this, Joe? Stop it? Okay, So let's talk about our dear dear friend, the choopy. Yeah, so the start of the beginning. The Chupacabra is a cryptid that was originally and by that I mean originally cited in the late seventies or early eighties in that region of north to central I guess, to the north to Sound in America, which ranges from Texas down to

um to Mexico. So those are the would be North America. Is it still technically North America not Central America? No, no, Texas is not Centralphy has never been my my strong suits coologize. Okay, Well, the point is is that our little buddy was sited in that region, and at the same time, this little cryptid had also been sited on the island of Puerto Rico's not so little in some settings.

We'll get there, we'll get there. Don't jump ahead for those of those you who don't know though, Puerto Rico if you're not up on your nation's in geography and all good, good information. State in Mexico right now. It's part of America. Is important. It's technically part of the United States. It's one of the many Caribbean islands run kind of southeast from the tip of Florida towards southeast

towards south of Erica. Now today, officially, as we're recording this, officially, Puerto Rico is an unincorporated U. S territory, and that information that that status will play into the story later. But I will say that I just heard something that in there's another vote on the books to make Puerto Rico the fifty first state. So maybe that will alleviate some of the tension that we're going to talk about. Yeah, I don't, but as of today, don't don't send us

an email. In a year and a half, there's a state you do do do fiz is No, we don't know that yet. Okay. So during the seventies and the eighties when the initial Chuby sidings happened to be went by the name of l Vampiro de Moca, which is the vampire of Mocha, and Mocha is a small town in Puerto Rico, yep. Also a delicious drink you can occasionally be. Yes, I haven't known to consume one of those spelled differently, but yeah, there's the is also that.

And while Chupy hadn't been cited, his handiwork, of course had and that handiwork was livestock like sheep or goats or chickens or family pets had all been found dead and most notably drained of their blood. And I'll be honest at this point that I don't know if in the seventies and the eighties the signature mark of the Chupa cabra was present or not. But that signature mark is a three whole, a triangular shaped set of holes in the neck of the animal with the point of

the triangle pointing down. So each of those, what's the the three points? Imagine? Do you imagine that the apex is by the way, but a creater with like two fangs on the top and just one thang in the middle of something like that. That's kind of scary. How that noise? Yeah, I thought that was that's the noise. Actually, that is way better than the noise that I heard on the internet for the Chupacabra. It was terrible. We'll

we'll get George put in place. So the Chupacabra, though, did not become a household name until he was on the TV reality show road Rules in I thought, I thought back further than that. Well, actually, okay, so a Choopy wasn't on road Rules on MTV the first year it came out, but Choopy did go back farther, but Chuopy did become a household name in And that is the year that more and more people started to see

and learn about a little Crypti Bud. The official and I'm going to use air quotes here, the official original sighting unquote took place in in Puerto Rico, and it was when a woman named Madeleine Tolentino saw this strange creature outside of her home run one night, and she started telling everybody about it. So what did the critter

that she saw look like? Of course? Yeah, yeah, but well, okay, so I'm going to tell you what she said she saw, and then I'm going to have to tell you all the other versions of what the chupa cabra looks like. Because the chupacabra has evolved over time, as all creatures do,

it's just in a very short amount of time. Unlike antrobiology, the sightings are after dark, after all, that woul account for some of this probably, yeah, and and and to be fair here, um, you know, we're talking about official sightings named the chupacabra or it's known predecessor, the Vampire of Mocha. But realistically, there have been reports of cryptids that are like this dating back millennia basically, right, I mean there are there's been tribal stories and things like

that about the creatures. Nowhere they're nowhere near is concrete, right, That's and that's why I say the kind of a genus. It's kind of unique in that there's there's stories going back of animals being drained of blood. But there's no consistency. This is where suddenly a consistency of loosely granted, but a loose consistency of what the creater looks like it starts to happen. I just want to make sure that people know it wasn't like chupacabra sprung fully formed. I agree,

but there in the American history Western sphere history true. Yeah, Okay, So what what Madeline's siding said the creature looked like was that the creature was several feet tall, had large eyes and spikes or spines depending on the version, running down the length of its back. And so basically what she described was a large upright lizards slash bug eyed

alien creature. The arms that they were longish, know, more than you would expect on a normal proportioned creature of this plan it, and the arms ended in hands that had large sharp claws on them. Okay, So that's that's the general gist of her description, and that took off like wildfire, and suddenly more and more and more people around Puerto Rico began to say that they had seen this,

and suddenly choopy fever was everywhere. Did did they say anything about the eyes are in the beginning they were big eyes, but nothing about the color initially. The color seems to come in later and later. But but basically what happens is that she tells the story, it gets on the news, and choopy fever takes off. So take that, John, Paul Ringo and George, you guys suck the picture by the end anyway, true, true, But this this creature has

no fur, are very little for on its body. And yeah, well then the scaling scene is kind of gray maybe green, which is very weird, and that makes sense for that area, well, it kind of does. But and the other thing is that it doesn't have Okay, so the hands, the description of the hands morph. They go from what we would consider a normal hand with five fingers to a hand that is yeah, mad graining style hand where it's only got three fingers total including the thumb. Graining has three

fingers plus. That's fair, that's fair. Okay, So it's no no, okay, So if we're gonna say it's got a thumb, it's got two fingers and a thumb, okay, with dinosaur the hind of dinosaur esque, that's not we're there yet, not there yet back all right, so that is what Magdalene's initial version sort of evolved too. But from there the chiope of cobra changed form and he began to evolve

in more and more descriptions. The chupacabra became a strange kind of upright lizard creature that then became some sort of naked or bald kangaroo like creature like the big giant hoppy legs, but at the same time had wings like weirdly little or medium sized, leathery bat style wing where they you know, flight and docing or really too

little for flight. They appeared to be flight inducing or at least gliding wings because somebody reported that the chupacabra flew out of the trees and attacked them as they were running away, kind of like Ingrid. What's that guy from years ago, the story we did Ingrid Cold? Yeah, yeah, something like that. But yeah, I mean it could kind

of gliding wings. Maybe you can't actually fly, but he can glide, right, So flying squirrel doesn't actually fly and glide, so it's the same theory as it's kind of a gliding chupicabra, right, okay later, sorry, And wings that are separate from arms, right, correct, correct the yes. From there, the creature would move moreph again into something that is more of a dog like form. And sometimes this dog would stand on two legs. Sometimes it would stand on four.

When it was on four, it could be standing up to four ft high. You know, a four ft tall dog is a big dog. Yeah. And now if it's a dog standing up on its hind legs and it's four ft high, well that's your average you know, chihuahua on steroids, so that's not so big. But still yeah,

I know I'm joking. Don't give me that look, but it's it's it's still a big critter if it's upright, Because not a lot of dog shaped animals, well not a whole lot of animals in this world are bipedal, So you can see why this story is kind of really gets people going. But that's not the only version.

There is yet another version of the chooper crop. But that says it is more monkey like and it has a lot of hair, or at least it has a lot of hair on its arms, So that might account for more of the flying out of the trees on somebody like, less flying and more jumping to land on a person because it just flings behind them and looks like yeah. Well and listen, monkeys are known to jump

out of trees onto people or things. If they don't like you, they will jump on you and slap you, or if they like you, they'll jump on you and love you. Yeah. It's kind of a weird, like confused with the message. Yeah, I'm just saying I don't know which is better, but well, it depends on your your perspective on monkeys. I'm not sure I want to be loved by monkey, but anyway, that's okay, okay. Uh, there's

the matter of the chipper coppers tail. Sometimes that tail is short, sometimes that tail doesn't exist at all, and sometimes that tail is kind of long and spike. So it's it's pretty clear from the evidence that is a shape shifter to a degree I'm not going to disagree with. Actually, I would say so that's that could be one of the reasons that and maybe I should be talking about this could be one of the reasons that we haven't

proven its existence yet. Uh, you know, and you might want to hang onto that that's actually not in the right up section for the theories, but we can hang onto that for theories if you want. Okay, yeah, all right, I promised to try. Let's see what else have we got in commonality. Oh well, this is what Devon brought up earlier, the eyes of the chip of Cabra. So in the beginning they were large eyes, but now more and more often they are large red almost kind of

red glowing eyes. Have you ever seen those photos of like big cats at night when somebody sharing the spotlight on them and their eyes suddenly light up in that mirror red creepy way. Yeah, well, yes they do. But what I don't know is if it's that kind of light up or if it's the space alien giant you know, like hands size, massive eyeball and a reflection it actually does go out correct? Correct? Does this alien have LEDs in its head? Or is it just the ambient light reflecting?

I don't know which one it is, uh now. I So, by the way, this is one thing that I really so when I was looking at all of the description of the chupy it got very very confusing. One of the things that I really really liked was if you go out to the crypti wiki and you search the Choopa Cabra there's a series of illustrations, all kind of side by side, and while they're conceptual drawings, they really kind of help put into perspective of the difference between

one to the next. So if you want to see that, I'd recommend going to the Crypti wiki and checking that out because that help out a lot. I've always actually kind of had, among other ages, a Scupi in my head. I've always kind of pictured him as like being dressed in a trench cut with a wide rim fedora soho al capone, al capone more, just like like a film noir guy, kind of film noir kind of spike, kind of like you know, James Jesus Angleton. Yeah, I'd never

really thought of Chupy in that way. Yeah, that's not how I think of him either. Do you think about in Devon so we're talking about descriptions, Yeah, I think more. I think like a kind of version of a Scaly slash Harry kind of thing. I don't know. I mean, I like the original description of you know, scaly with the spikes, but I also for some reason think of him as like cuddly and furry. I don't have a good time reconciling I kind of am in this this

shape shifter camp. My favorite, my favorite description or my favorite visual of the chupy is the one that we put on the Nightlight years ago. Yeah, hamster with the the scary claws and the knife and the wings, like, that's my favorite description. But of course that's because that's the way I see it, and so I was able to visualize it. Ye. Well, let's get there's still by the way. Don't forget though, We've still got more description

stuff to talk about here. Okay, so you remember we talked about the hands went from five finger to less graining and more three fingers style. Well, depending on your opinion of thumbs, yes, digits perfect. Well, those digits seem to be to blame for the next the holes that are found in the necks of choppy praying instead of teeth. Yes,

yeah to a degree. Yeah, like that seems to be you know, have you ever okay, so, have you ever gone to get a to go drink and the lid has a little plastic bit but you've got to actually put your finger in it to open it like a coffee like it took coffee that kind of thing. Yeah, and then you scream and shout about how much we'll think about what Choppy has to do. He's got to do the same thing to the neck of a critter

to get his meal. So he's always angry at them because it's it burns him and they're biting at you know. That's why they give you straws. You're not supposed to use your finger, use a straw or like in this stage. Yeah, I mean, so he used the coffees to her or something. Go on, do you like a human listen? I've been relying on you people to help me consume food like a normal human being. Crawls that you use a tool.

Oh okay, So that aside. The real thing is that the story appears to be that maybe Chupy is holding his fingers and he is jabbing into the neck of it and then and then immediately going to it and sucking all of the fluid out of creature, which at a substantial amount of which is very vampiric. Is there blood dribbles to suggest that well there's blood? I mean, you know, I mean, is there're enough that it would be like poke? I guess I gotta put my mouth

on it now. Yeah, I don't think that he's trying to be the little Dutch boy and stem the flow. I think he might be trying to be the exact opposite and increase the flow with pressure, that kind of pressure. Okay, Yeah, he might even actually grabbing his pot in his paws and give him a good squeeze. He's giving them a hug. He's giving them a hug in their final moments to make them comfy. Does anybody believe that? Okay, okay, let's

move forward. Then, so we've already established why there might be this vampiric element because of the stabbing and then the lack of blood. What I find really really funny about the name choo Pacabra, of course, is that when you translate that to Spanish, because that's where it came from, it directly translates to goats sucker, as in the sucker

of blood of goats. But what I really love is that goats are I mean, that infers that all the chacabra is after his goats, but it's farm animals like sheep and chicken or dogs or all these others are also seemed to be prey. So it's a bit of a mishnoms no no, it's it's not at all. Unusually the animal came them for somebody to have a preferred for food group. But at the same time, you know, when goats aren't available, you gotta you gotta do something. You got to eat. I mean, you know, Chap the

dog or whatever. Yeah. One thing to bear in mind is that in Choopy's natural hunting ground usually wild goats, but once it becomes urbanized or taken over by farms, it's replaced by farm animals, and so he is left to hunt whatever he can. Are you thinking that Choppy is in an area where fainting goats are natural? Yeah, that's why. No, I mean no, I'm sorry. I was being kind of smart smart ass there, but no, you can.

I mean, you know, there were wild goats everywhere, and then people came over and you know, started at agriculture in that area, and suddenly you gotta hunt other things. Come on, man, But luckily, luckily, I guess you never started hunting human beings, thankfully. And there are just to set the record straight, there are no accounts anywhere of a chupa cabra actually attacking, not like these people who were chupy jumped on them. That should be appears to

have jumped on them and that was it. No actual attacks, inflicting damage or attempting to feed on a human. So apparently the long pig is not on the menu for the cabra. Well that's because the vampires get the credit at that point. They've got like sort of like not symbiotic relationship, not not symbiotic, but they just have sort of they just they have their own territories. They don't they don't intrude, you know, I mean, or they have their own prey. Yeah, thanks, Yeah, all right, well let's

keep going up. Oh well, actually that's all I have for background on the chupa cabra. So essentially, to kind of to summit all of that, the little monster can be taller, short, harrier, bald, have small or large eyes that are black or red, have a flat face or a long face with big snout. This is a very concrete description that would hold up in a court of law if the little Booker would ever just show up

in court. I was gonna say, didn't you say that this was a concrete example, as we're not not in centuries past sarca sarcasm it yeah, yeah, the chupys descriptions are all over the place. And that's my favorite part and my least favorite part about this story. It's a hard thing, is that, well, which one is it? Is it Chupy? Is it the Jersey Devil? Is it this

other thing? Like? Yeah, to a degree, now, um, I will mention that in the Chupacabra story seems to have really gained ground in Puerto Rico that then spread to Central South and North America. That story has now even gone so far that Chupacabra site. Things are happening in eastern Europe, by the way. That's from Choopy and the Aliens band tour, which I believe was the get your Goat and why the hell is this so cold here? Tour? Oh yeah, that I go Yeah, we all have that shirt.

So that's but that's that's all we have about the story of the choop A Cabra. I find it funny that he spread so far, but you know, he's an industrious little critter that too. Maybe that's why he spread so far, as he's actually prolific in the reproductive way. Maybe you never know, there's that, or it might just be that he stays on the move to to avoid contact with human beings, kind of the gypsy lifestyle stuff.

Maybe that too. Well, let's uh, we've we've finished up all of the basic descriptions, so let's talk about the theories about the chiop Cabra. But before we do that, let's take a quick break. Hey, Devon, do you like running? You bet? I do, Steve, And you know what I love running from the most held? You do? You running away from the chuppy? Uh? So do you have a

favorite kind of running, Geared Evan? Why Bomba's socks. Of course, they're so comfortable with that crazy honeycomb heart support system. I know that my feet are getting the support they need and they make you look less like a goat, So the chuppy won't come after you, am I right? Uh? Yeah, sure, Joe. Anyway back to this end they were recording, So tell me, Devon, is there anything else that you like about Bomba's. Oh, Steve,

there are so many things I like about Bomba's. To start off with, there's the super soft cop material, which is just amazing because it keeps your feet warm in the winter and cool in the summer, and man is it hot here right now. The other really fantastic thing is that they give so much to those in need. Bamba do. It's one pair of socks for repair they sell, which is like over seven million a year. That's pretty

amazing to me, it sure is. And the thing you need to understand is that that little devil dog Chupacaba sure isn't doing anything like that for anyone. That is totally true, Joe. All that little monster does is sit around and smoke cigars all day before assaulting livestock. I have to say, my favorite thing about Bombas is the

fact that they fit so well on me. There is just something great about wearing socks that stay in place while I don't really feel like I feel them there, and I never get those gnarly lines on my feet that other socks leave, which is why I really like them and I really wear them so much. So, dear listener, if you'd like some Bombas of your own, then have we got a great offer to share with you. You can now get off your first order of Bomba's by going to Bomba's dot com slash sideways and using the

promo code sideways. That's Bomba's b O M b a s dot com slash Sideways with the promo code sideways to get off your first order. That's right, because Bomba's have been helping people out run chupy since sometime after the law pass instident. Ay ready, ju ju jube chuo juo chube juba caa chupacabra. Okay, and we're back. Let's talk about theories. WHOA. So, theory number one is that

the chuba cobra is a dinosaurs one. Well, yeah, yeah, a long ignored, unobserved dinosaur because this creature is short, it's got leathery skin like a lizard, and it's got spikes on its head and those are running down its back, which is kind of sounds like a stegosaurus to me. Yeah. But but if you think about it, though, the problem with this theory is that if we're going to look at the island of Puerto Rico, there are no large

lizards that are native to that island. There's some iguanas and there's some geckos, but none of them are near big enough to be what is described as the chio picabra. Nor do they walk on their hind legs. Yeah, yeah, lizards sho't typically walk that way. So that's a problem and us so about the thing about it is is that you know, it could have could have gotten there

somehow at a ship, say, for example. And we're going to talk about that because that is that infers some kind of longevity or past in other places, which I would think would be reported on prior to this. But

we'll talk about in a later theory. But I will say that the fact that it is unobserved because there are there are creatures that are old, like some fish or crocodiles or certain creatures like that that have have found no reason to change or evolve over the millennia that are's basically the same now as they were when the t rex was running around. Well, that's the idea of this theory, is that the jupicabra is the same thing it was of a hundred thousand years ago, especially

if it was like you know, like shape shifter. If that's what it is, that's the most ultimate coolest adaptation ever. So why would it change? Yeah? So okay, well, so here's the thing is that we're going to go into the shape shifter in just a second because I want you to flesh that out. But for me, the fact that if it had been originally on the island of

Puerto Rico for that entire time. It's amazing to me if it's just a plane dinosaur, not the shape shifting kind, but a plane dinosaur, that it would have gone for all of the time that people are on that island on observed and undescribed in any lord that that to me is that's awkward or weird or strange. It doesn't make sense. Well, it could have been a fluke that brought it there. Yeah, I was just gonna say, I mean, I think what Joe was saying earlier isn't is worth

considering that it wasn't always on Puerto Rico. It could have come from Central or South America, where there are as we have talked about recently, fast swaths of this kind of those areas that I just are totally unexplored. That something like a dinosaur could have existed for thousands of years, millions of years totally undiscovered, and then somehow, you know, managed to get itself wrangled up in like a timber shipment or something that ended up you know,

in Puerto Rico. I mean, and then suddenly, because Puerto Rico is so much smaller, suddenly and so much more populous. Yeah, where it came from. I mean, I just think it's worth No, no, I'm not going to completely discredit it. I disagree with it, but I'm not gonna just credit Joe. Tell him flesh out a little more. Though. Your shape shifter idea, Well, it's not that fleshy really, It's just it's more leathery. Yeah, it depends on the day. You know. I ate a bunch of carbs today, so I'm kind

of a fleshy shape shifter. But no, I mean, it's just it's just this obvious. Uh. And I think, you know, indisputable that since the accounts have very so much in describing the troop of Cabra, that you know, he must be a shape shifter, you know. I think it's like in disputing, one day he looks like an ant eater, the next like a monkey, and one day he looks like Bob from the local tribe. Yeah. Yeah, listen, everybody said Bob was a weird looking dude, So I get it.

He had he had a weird craving, he had a weird affection for the local goasts. That was that was really what set him apart. But that could be also it makes him. So elusive is because being a shape shifter like he is, and it's like if somebody spots him, he can dart away and then just morph into a dog or something or a sheep and nobody yeah, or part of the herd. Yeah, suddenly yeah, suddenly, boom, he's gone. And they're like, oh, weird, we there's a there's a

sheep missing from the herd, but we have the right number. Yeah, yeah, No, I cannot think if there's I've read books about shape shifters before and how they would integrate into society, So that's that's not unheard of, and it makes sense. I mean, I mean, actually, when you come right down to it, Choppy could be sitting in this room right now. Yeah, so let me take off my mask christ for walking. No, that's not how it actually works. Off my mask, I'm

Tom Cruise. Yeah, you don't jump on the couch enough to be Tom Cruise. Okay, let's move to our next theory.

The next theory is that the chupa cober is actually some kind of vampiric animal, because remember, you know, the chupy is supposedly norious for sucking the blood out of its victims and that gives the impression that it is Again, it is giving the impression that it only is able to sustain itself on the blood meal of other creatures, and that would explain why people originally called it the vampire,

the vampire, the vampire of Mocha. Well, there are animals on this planet that do partially or entirely survive on blood meals. So there's leeches, vampire bats, some birds, some bugs, even some plants out there that do it. Yeah, but

there's no evidence. This is the the issue with it is that there's not no evidence of anything as large as a chupacabra, independent of which size version of the chubacabra you want to adhere to out there that is surviving on that much blood as it's only food source. But but bear with me here because this the way I said, that implies that the only food source it has is blood, which is wrong to presume we don't

know that. Well, yeah, because there are there are a bunch of animals out there that consume blood, but that's not the only thing they eat. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I was just gonna say, it doesn't really stand to reason that an animal that large would be able to sustain itself just on blood. Blood is very nutritious. Blood can be very nutritious, but probably not for an animal

of that size. They have to feed on a lot of animals to get the right amount of blood, and it wouldn't be a very balanced diet to only drink blood. I mean, there are some animals that do. This is why you put cellery in your bloody Mary, Yeah, but it might be that that's kind of this hunting strategy is to punks of the animals like herotid arteryy suck out enough blood to it loses consciousness and thattic and like you know, feed and you know consumed the meat part.

But then why are they finding all the animals that have the hallmarks of being because because He's interrupted before, Well, I was gonna say. The issue is that the blood sucking is always described as the way that the animal died. There is no post consumption of the creature. So the goat has its neck punctured and all the blood is gone, but the goat is not torn apart and consumed. It is still sitting there whole. But that's just the ghosts

they find. Correct, Okay, I will get that. But and but Here's the thing is that if we're going to say it's a vampiric animal, there are Okay, let's talk about the vampire finch, which is a finch on the Galapagos Islands. It eats seas and bugs and grubs just

like finches do. The only difference is that in the dry season or the season where there's not a whole lot of its normal food around, what this particular finch does is it goes up and it plucks the tail feathers out of bigger birds and creates a wound that bleeds, and then it feeds on that blood. And apparently you will see a line of finches behind a big bird and once they've consumed enough, they'll fly away and the next one will come up open the wound a little

bit to keep it bleeding and keep consuming. Yeah, but listen, there are animals who do this. It is a I mean leeches, and there's are all kinds of creatures that it's a creepy, creepy thing to us as people, but nature finds a way, so there are animals that do it. It's just the scale, well scale, but there is a scale thing. But also but still, I mean, I I still think as a hunting strategy to suck the blood to it loses consciousness and then you go up in

your chow down after that. It could be too that lots of lots of chippy victims have been found, but they were assumed to be psychioty attacks or other while attacks. Yeah, that's true. I guess this is why Joe's not allowed. That's true. No, I mean the only thing is I think in like fantasy land theory, the idea of sucking blood and tell your victim is you have to have you have to have some kind of like mesmerized thing to write where the animals not going to fight back

because like hanging onto an animal. Yeah, you have to be really strong and be able to suck blood like really really fast, because in reality, if you even if you puncture like a major artery and animal's gonna immediately just fight back really really hard, it would be faster almost to just like fold the entire neck at or

yeah something like. Okay, So I'm going to disagree with that because I've for some reason, I've been watching a lot of videos of lions on the planes attacking large Uh, what's the what do you call animals with the gazels like gazelles, the the the split hoof underlands underlands, and they grab them, they they're choking them more than anything, Like they are opening the veins in their neck by biting them, but more often than not, what they're doing

is they're actually choking. But that's the exact same thing I'm saying, right, that's more efficient, Okay, but it is possible than in the process of opening these holes that are bleeding the animal out, they're also cutting off the windpipe. I'm not in bed with this theory, don't get me wrong, but I'm saying that, like, just because this is happening

doesn't mean something else is happening. But I will tell you that there's another larger problem with this whole vampiric angle, which is that these animals are that are that are found or supposedly have been drained of all their blood.

But we don't know that for sure because one of the things that we've talked about on the show before is liver mortis, which is that process where you know your blood is being pushed around the body mortis no livermore livermore is the blood is being pushed around and then once the heart stops, the blood is a liquid, so it does what all liquids do. It settles to the lowest point, the path of least resistance, at which

point it pools and coagulates. So if if a rancher comes out and says, oh my god, my prize goat, Jenny has been killed, well what's happened? And you try to cut Jenny open to see what's going on, and you kind of expect this spray of blood to happen, but that doesn't happen. You go, she's got no blood in her. Oh my god, she's been sucked dry. When really what's happened is Jenny's blood is all sank to whatever the lowest portion of her was and sort of

semi solidified. Well you know, but still you know, intentions might be to completely exsanguinate the animal, but again it gets interrupted and has to scamper off into the darkness before I can suck all the blood out of it. But whatever blood is in Jenny is going to settle to Jenny's lowest bits. I just think, you know, Chippy is trying to do Rancher as a favor, like they have to eventually excigminate the body water anyway, So he's just like helping them out, Yeah, just trying to make

the meat usable. Yeah maybe maybe. No, I don't like this theory at all. Let's no. Yeah, really doing that to Jenny and the other twenty four Jennifers is just not nice. So let's keep moving on. So we have another theory, which is that the chupa cabra is an alien. Yeah, because what good story wouldn't involve an alien for goodness sake? Zero exactly. That's not beyond the realm of possibility now,

so you preconsistently see the choopy being just chupacabra. By the way, just so people don't get upset, we have come to call the chupacabra Choopy because he's kind of a friendly character to us. But and I keep saying would be rather than chupa cabra. It's just a natural automatic reaction because we've been talking about the chupa cobra for like five years now. It's really just like calling

a friend, Jenny In said of Jennifer. Yeah, yeah, so the twenty seven chupies that we're talking about here are awesome. Come on, you know, the song up. Yeah, Yeah, it's it's by the December Yeah catalog, yep, exactly. So when you look up drawings and descriptions of this critter, you're gonna find that it's not hard to see why some people may say that the chupa cobra actually is an alien.

Some of the drawings it does look pretty. And the alien theory kind of explains some things because listen, in the seventies and eighties, there was some spot descriptions of things that sounded like the chupa cabra, but it wasn't

until the mid nineties that it really started taking off. Well, if the chupa cabra is an alien, that explains why it suddenly showed up in the Middle a little the Caribbean in the nineties, because it could be that, instead of being a natural occurring earthlier, Um, what's the word I'm looking for, terrestrial creature. It's an extraterrestrial in that this creature suddenly shows up and starts playing havoc here

in our ecosystems and we're not expecting it. I mean, it might also explain the vampiric nature, right, I mean, you know it's possible that creatures from other worlds have developed a different physiology, and yeah, they found a blood just generally more nutritious. It's like crack. Yeah, and it literally could be alien crack. So this could be I

can see a couple of possibilities here. One is that like say some aliens land here like eons ago, could be centuries, thousands of years ago, and for whatever reason, their their ship broke down and they and they were stuck here and they wind up basically because I mean imagine, say, for example, if the three of us wind up stuck in a jungle somewhere, are we going to build a new civilization or are we going to wind up living a savagery new civilization? Obviously, yeah, of course. But but

these aliens are dumber than we are. There's space traveling dummies. So they wind up, you know, basically foraging and getting they're the rednecks in space traveler. Yeah, but they returned. Well, I mean a lot of a lot of us really don't have the wherewithal too. Most of us could build a car, Yeah, none of us good and so and

so basically they reserved. They reverted essentially to savagery. Okay, after centuries that there's still some descendants to the original Aliens and out there, maybe even more, but there's still not huge numbers or anything like that, and they're still out and about. I'll take you a step further. If an Aliens dog, Pete they had on their spaceship they landed and it ran off, ran off, they were like, hush, we got to get out of here. The human puppy

they're doing well, this sucks. Why do we call you fluffy when you have no I don't know, but it's the language difference. And then it's you know, that explains why maybe they might be smart enough for space travel but not smart enough to start there. But I will I will actually trade change. That is that they may they may not be smart enough for space travel, but they may be some kind of interstellar hitchhiker, but the interstellar hitchhiker kind that is not smart enough to bring

our own towels. Yeah. That's the other thing I was thinking, is that they're just basically like rats on ships, you know, here in the in this this world, not this country, just world enormous, but but cloaked alien ship basically lands in a few places on the planet and some of these things just pop off out of the hold or wherever they're hiding out in there. Maybe they flush them out because they're like, oh god, we have a bed

bug infestation. The whatever their equivalent of bed bugs is, get rid of it alright, Like the movie Critters, remember Critters or a horrible but fun movies. I don't think I saw that one. Well, that was from the late eighties where they were a little round, hairy things and they would roll. You need to see that, you'll hate it, okay, but I need to see more movies like that. But another possibility, of course, is that the aliens pop by and just left these critters off as like kind of

hunting animals. Essentially, they just wanted to leave them here and let them breathe, and they come back and just hunt them for sport later on, and maybe who knows, maybe they do come back occasionally and hunt up for sports. See. The problem though, the whole problem, the joy and the terror that is this theory is that your belief in aliens. If you believe in aliens, this totally makes sense. If you don't believe in aliens, this theory is complete and utter.

Pooh absolutely conceded to not believe in aliens. But we can go down that route a whole different. Yeah. We we've gone down that more than once, and I don't think we need to go down it again. I'm sure they're around it. The big question is is are they visiting Earth or have they? You know, that's that's the big question. Yeah. I think hitchhiker is a good one. Yeah, okay, well let's let's by the way. Yeah, I know, that's why I said they're not good enough to bring their

own damn powel. All right, let's go to the next theory, which is that it is a not as I have written, genetical, but an actual genetic mutation created by question mark exactly how it's written out, but probably they've created in the in the labs that on Plum Island, Oh yeah, yea, or NASA. So as uh, as you're reading about Chubby and the Chubster, you're gonna, you know, you're not going to be surprised to learn that there are conspiracy theories

surrounding the Chub of Cabra. What I was surprised about was where those conspiracy theories were at, because, as we talked about before, Puerto Rico is a it's oh god, what did we call it earlier? It's a it's an island, an unincorporated it's an unincorporated state of the United States, and that is it's a territory. So theoretically that's going

to change soon. But apparently the residence of Puerto Rico they don't really like the U. S. Government in ways because they feel like they're not treated right, and they feel like the U. S. Government is sometimes hiding things from them, which I don't disagree with because I think the US government is hiding things for me all the time,

so I get that. What happens here, though, is that this theory says that this this creature is being hidden from view and how that's happening or why that happening. That theory kind of morph or splits into two veins. The first vein is that the chupy, the chipicabra is created by the US government lab. That lab happened to be on Puerto Rico or the island Puerto Rico, and that lab was working on genetic manipulation to create new critters, so sort of like Dolly the sheep, you know, they

figured out how to clone a critter. So it's in that same vein research like spliced together various DNA from various critters goat and a lizard, and you know, I don't know an other mean thing. I really want to merge this theory with one of the previous theories to create the what I will now call the Jurassic Park theory. That it could be a dinosaur totally resuscitated by the US government that escaped, so it's a raptor, and it could just be some kind of dinosaur that we don't

necessarily know about. If it's gonna be Jurassic Park, it's going to be a raptor. Alright, Fine, it's some sort of weird wrapper that we don't know about. They created lots of difference little dinoas for that for that park. But it makes me put the best. But it's scariest. But you know, it may well be that it's it's

bigger than this. It wasn't just something that escaped. Actually, there's a U. S. Government plant who just turned the entire island of Puerto Rico into Jurassic Park, which makes sense actually because the population is leaving there in droves. So it's like, you know, pretty soon it's gonna be empty. Might according to the news coverage, they're all leaving it, yet everybody still seems to be living there. Yes, but that's that's the theory, is that the US government created

this thing. Now it maybe it got out on its own, or maybe they intentionally let it loose on the island to turn it into a giant game park for drawing in all the Chinese tourists to to to make money on.

We don't know. This theory, though, also splits because it's what we talked about a little bit earlier, is that instead the aliens had created this critter, and the aliens came here, they dumped the chupa cabra onto the island of Puerto Rico, and from there, of course, the aliens in the US government, they're in bed together, sleeping on their casper mattress, and they said, we've got to cover

this up with this giant duvey cover of misinformation. And so they pulled up their big old blankie over the chupa cabra and just said, no, that didn't happen. I don't.

You don't know what you're happening. I didn't. That could actually explain some of the incoherences of the descriptions of the Chupe of Cabra is that you have your agents actually actually report sightings of the Chupa cabra, but every one of them looks a little different or even a lot different, and that would that would totally destroy the credibility of the original sightings, the actual real sightings true. Now, Joe, I know you're you're a huge fan of always digging

into old historical information on these things. And I know you came up with you found you came up with this, So you found this, got this, dude. But the next theory that you shoehorned into my script, well, and I got this out of a book that in some reacharch I was doing on the the assassination of Abraham Lincoln and all the years because that happened. Yeah, and well it did happen eventually. Apparently there were the assassination attempts.

He was controversial, but this was a rather controversial time in our history. Um passions were running high, very very high over the slavery thing and secession all that. But uh, well, yeah, yeah, he he did not he did. What I was trying to say is he didn't come into power with this huge wave of approval. There was all kinds of factions that were not happy about him, as his tends to

be kind of typical of first term presidents. When there's a sea change, it's uh, you know, even when things are fairly fairly okay, I mean, think things kind of going nuts. People's guy doesn't there or a girl does not win that the White House like they thought he or she should, and everybody goes berserk. But let's get

back to our theory here. So in the eighteen fifties, before obviously Lincoln became president, the Pakerton Detective Agency was actually hired by Abraham Lincoln after they repeatedly thwarted an assassination attempt against him, and he did not Yeah, I did not know, well I had well, yeah, this is part of the theory. I'm not so sure that I've heard about this one before either, because you know, there had been a previous one. I don't know, Well, it

just hasn't been publicized. Let's just say, obviously, they sort of dropped the ball in the second attempt, you know, yeah, yeah, well they did. Well. You know you gotta remember about the second attempt, though, is that the Civil War was basically over at that time, so everybody, Yeah, everybody was. It was kind of probably kind of thinking, Okay, everybody's just gonna go back to their corner and we're all just going to kind of get over everything again. Maybe

that was it. I don't know, but yeah, the guard was down. There was there was a member of the Pinkerton's who was actually well known for his superior I don't know his his instincts, I guess, and uh, he was won by the code named cheap Block Holmes. Really yeah, he was a key member of the agency. Yeah, cheap Block Holmes. And he was kind of funny looking, but he still had a massive success, right, so he was accepted and promoted at in a trench coat a lot. Yeah, yeah,

I think that. I think that the hat may have been a way to draw attention away from his his appearance. Yeah yeah, but you know, eventually he came kind of became disillusion with the organization and left. And rumor has it he went south when he left, like towards the Texas border maybe, uh yeah. And but you know, other than that, surprisingly for a guy who spent so many so much time with the agency, there's not that much

known about him. Uh. And then totally makes sense. Yeah, I mean he's spy, right, Yeah, well that's a good point. He wants to be kind of an onymous. Yeah, although you know, if he's out there still, and I assume he is, somebody named Arthur Conan Doyle actually actually did some research into a time with the Pinkerton's and and basically ripped it all off and made it into the Sherlock Home Stories and made a pile of money on it.

And so there was a message left left behind, one last message, coded message left for Allen Pinkerton, who was the guy who started the Pinkerton Agency. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Code breakers have not yet able to figure figured this letter out. But so it said it clear and clear, it said, what figured this one out? You're a racist jerk face that. Yeah, but they haven't been able to figure out what the code was. Yeah, maybe there is no code. Maybe that was actually the Well it could

have been. It could and it could have been. Like I said, some quoted messages are probably not really code at all, just meant to just drive people nuts. Yeah. I think at least one or two of the Zodiac messages are actually that way. I actually I totally agree. Yeah, I think I do if this is a coded message, I love the uncoded version because come on, or the coded version. So Joe, I'm sorry, what does this have

to do with chop Cabra. Well, Troup Block Holmes is believed by some people if peop Block Holmes might have actually been a chip of cabra in disguise. Okay, yeah, I mean I homes of course, So whether it's the super cobra, and we don't know if the chuper cobra that we that we see today is the same one from a hundred two hundred years ago. Some creatures actually

live a long long time. This is also a time frame when people were playing with a lot of chemicals, and it could be the chop Block Homes like figured out some steam punky way to make a whole bunch of chemicals to extend his life. But of course it gave him a horrific skin condition and an abnormally large love of goats. So literally, what you're saying is he just figured out how to turn himself into a Victorian vampire. No victory in goat fire. That doesn't work, does it. No,

it's still a vampire like a goat lover. Victorian goat lover. Okay, let's just I'm going here like he's he's got a thing for goats, but he lives forever. Yeah, but nobody's nobody. I don't think our listeners are buying this, although I kind of like your idea of Devon, that that he maybe was experimenting with certain chemicals and want from being basically a human being to this creature you know who, you know, kind of Jucklin Heights thing. Yeah, exactly, So

I don't know. Okay, let's let's move on to the next theory, which is this is actually a really simple theory, which is that the chipicabra is real as described. In other words, it is a real creature. It has never actually been observed. It's truly a cryptid and nobody has actually seen it. But there's nothing to say that it's not right. And there are creatures out there that have not that have been observed but haven't been scientifically captured

and categorized. And this happens from time to time, and too you know the world. Yeah, what's that New species do get discovered? They do, but it's still usually they're in obscure locations, and they're they're in very remote corners of the world to just be bouncing around in the middle of South America and Puerto Rico. See a bit far fetch, you think, so, I mean, like, you know,

it's Devin theorized earlier. You know, you could have somehow got snagged up and wound up in some cargo that got shipped to Puerto Rico as far as South America in places like that, I mean, human settlements expanded and expand into his territory. So you know it's entirely plausible. Well, let's move to the we'll dump up for a second because it's gonna then play into the next three, which is that it's a myth. Because of course, my problem

with that is that there's the unobserved thing. But if this animal were to have, possibly in some form, once existed and then people are telling stories about it, because people tell stories all the time to control behavior, whether it's children or ethical reasons or whatever like, or to stay out of the to stay out of areas for religious reasons, like there's all kinds of things like that. Well there's that, but also people like a good creepy story.

But people popular people's imaginations are very very powerful things, and you know, I mean, we all know this that if you have details missing in something that you see, your brain will fill in the missing piece, and normally it becomes the scary things. That's why kids that see at night they're with their toys and their hanging clothes, that becomes Sully from you know, from what was the monsters? Yeah, is a dress and a lego. My problem with that theory, though,

is that the chuper carbon poses no threat to humans. Right, So most of those those myths surround either some sort of creation story to explain perhaps like thunder something like that, or something to keep the kids, like to scare the kids witless so that they stay in the camp at night. Right, It's very rare to be like, oh, the goats don't have these puncture wounds and like there's nothing sucking their blood.

But let's just make something up. It could be a scary thing to to actually ram home to the kids the idea that they have to get the goats home and in the corrality. That's true. But yeah, but you know, it's just usually those kind of myth creations center around, like you said, people and scare people either into behaving or believing something, and then it has some some repercussion for a human if they don't do that thing right. Well,

so let me share a story of suggestion and interpretation. Okay, we're going to go back to which is when we said the story kind of went viral, and we're going to go back to Magdalene Tolentino. Yeah, in Puerto Rico, she remember the originator of the chupy that we know and love. Well, it turns out that Madeleine weeks before had gone to the theater and seen the movie Species. And by the way, yeah, she did not just think that this was a movie. She thought this was something

that was happening on the island of Puerto Rico. And if you go when you watch the movie Species, which is about the main character, Ish is this girl who becomes an a land and she gets all these weird things on her and if you look at it, she does get really big by the end. But if you look at her, she looks a lot like any creature created by hr Geiger, because lo and behold he wrote both stories the Aliens from the Alien series. And by the way, if you don't know what I'm talking about,

stop pause us right now. Google hr Geiger aliens. You will see the creatures and they have large teeth, large spines across their backs. They're very they have a kind of an oily, glistening sheen style to them, Like he has a very very specific style to the creature. He's said, but she wouldn't watch that movie not too long before she saw this. Yeah, but are you saying that, hr Geiger? Is that what you're saying? So No, But what you are saying is that this is this theory isn't so

much like, oh, it's a myth. The theory is this woman got confused, confused. Hold everybody but miss but miss are the same thing is that people see something in its suggestion and they take it and they spin it and they say they see something else, and then they tell everybody else, And that's what appears. According to Benjamin Radford, who, by the way, is a guy who investigated the origins

of the chupacabra. He said, wait, Madeline went watched Species and then she reported a creature that looked like Still. I think Still is her name from Species, and lo and behold this thing took off. I just I'm resistant to this because I have a better theory. Okay, cool. You know what, fine, tell me you better theory. My matter theory involves the past. Actually it also it solves

the past incident. Basically, it's my understanding that Choopy was actually an agent for the KGB, whether it be you know, a genetic mutation agent or like an actual agent in some way forced to coerce or coerced to work with the KGB. And I do, I mean, I kind of do think that that there was some sort of instead of the U. S. Government created this creature, maybe the KGB created this creature, or it could have been Tom Cruise in a rubber mask. Could have been Tom Cruise

in a ruber mask. I think he's a little before his time, but for all, I don't know if somethingtologists might live forever. Just to go on the record, Tom Cruise is rubber mask, he is, he might he already is rubber mask is true. No, But I think that Choopy was was created, but he was somehow a KGB agent, and he was actually responsible for the desk at the Outlaw pass you like we said we were talking about, you know, maybe he drains the blood to actually eat people.

And and this could be a really good example of what happened. I mean, you know, in the frozen tundra, that's what you're saying. It's five years ago, a joke by Jove turns out to be true. Yeah, well it wasn't a joke, ye know. He had just started doing the research and I finished this research up for him. And yeah, but he did not actually drink the blood from these guys at the pass, did he. Well, some of the bodies were like torn up, right, and so

I think was destroyed. Yeah, I mean, you know it's possible. I mean, they froze. I don't know really, but he realized on this incident something had gone wrong, like like we were just saying, you know, he tore the bodies up. Maybe he wasn't able to drink the blood. I don't know really what happened there. That's the remaining mystery of the law past. But because of this incident, he realized he didn't he couldn't work for the KGB anymore. He like,

he just couldn't. So he defected because of that cigar. I mean, maybe it was the cigar, but even even back then, the KGB new KGB knew the secondhand smoke was a bad thing, and they you have been more really down on that whole thing. Well, I think he just was personally like horrified with the things that he was doing for the KGB. And so he'd defected to the U S government and they were like, listen, we

can't have you in the contiguous United States. So Puerto Rico here, listen, Puerto Ricos not Yeah, they're not technically America. It's safe. People don't guess that you're there. There's lots of weird little farm land down there. It's great. So they sent him down there, gave him a farm for himself to kind of roam on. But since he hadn't I mean, you know, he's not clearly not human. So since he didn't have an actual deed to the property in the US government was in this kind of situation

where they had to deny owning the property. The property got developed, and again the Indian giver thing that we talk it's like in the Frank Finkel episode. They take it away and give it back. Yeah, they do that. I could just say it if you showed they show up to take his lands that you know, we're not. We decided to get this as somebody else and develop it. Well, even it like, you made this promise and now you're taking it back, and the guys when the government says, well, yeah,

that's what we do. Yeah, I mean either that or you know, it was just people who were local. They were like, well, that ranch isn't being used, so we might as well graize our goats on it. And then suddenly, you know, he was feeding on goats and sheep and chicken and whatever because people were encroaching on his his normal hunting grounds with the U. S. Government had given him to By the way, yeah, have you ever eaten goat? Yeah,

it's actually pretty good. It's not bad. I don't I don't blame Choopy for liking goat because I mean blood, oh well, well with with jerk sauce or some like spices. Yeah, in a in a barrel barbecue. That is the bomb right there. But no, I mean that's that's my I you know, based on Joe's and my research, I think this is just to retire KGB defector retired to Puerto Rico. Okay, well, let's uh, let's go ahead and move into the next three.

Kind of overwhelmed with series, right, Well, there's a lot of theories in this because this is a huge stone. I mean, don't dismiss this story like the mainstream media does, Joe. Don't be a mainstream disser of the troops. Come on the mainstream. Yeah, the mainstream. They're basically not interested in the true. Do not be a tuope denier. No, I'm not so Listen, let's here. Here's the next theory is that and we have a couple left, We're going all

the way through with this. And by the way, everybody's looking at their phones or iPods or whatever, going, oh my god, there's so much episode left. We have a lot to go through a little bit. We have whole bunch of stuff, important stuff coming up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the next theory is that this is just an animal with Maine. Yeah yeah, I've heard these stories, this stuff on Facebook and stuff. You see it everywhere. So for for the last twenty plus years, animal corpses have

been brought to officials. And I use that term loosely to invest in identify the whole hand air quotes. Well, yeah, this is yeah, that's that's the weird. The whole air quote. The two finger one is official. The whole hand one is kind of awkward, but it is that these people have brought these corpses forward saying this is a tubacabra chorpse and you should check it out. And of course

official sources don't ever really want to do it. But when they are actually investigated, what appears to be the case is that they are not previously unidentified creatures, but instead they're the corpses of wild dogs or coyotes or some kind of canine. They don't have hair, usually, well they don't have hair because they tend to appear to typically be suffering from mange, have been submersion water or

have been submerging water. Okay, yeah, so listen. If you don't know what manges, will give you a very very quick primer here. Mange is caused by a mite, specifically sarcoptic mange. That's the name of this particular mine. And what it does is it crawls under the skin and it like it literally burrows a tunnel in the skin, which is horrible to think of. Yeah, but then it lays eggs and that can be very painful and it can cause quite a lot of itching. It's not a

good thing. And these these mites can and they do infect people and the what you'll hear in humans, this called is scabies. Now, Lucky for us humans, we've been dealing with this particular brand of mites for years, like centuries, like millennia, so on an evolutionary scale, we've figured out how to handle it and kind of um corralled on the body. Now, it's not considered desirable, it's not, but it is not something that is going to take you

doubt it is. It's an inconvenient and by the way, it is highly contagious and it is highly uncomfortable, and if you think you have scabies, you should see a doctor because it is very easily treated in humans today. But the point is it will not kill us at least. It takes a really massive, massive, massive, massive infection to really take down a human. Turns out in canines, though that's not the case because canines have not been dealing with this particular might nearly as long as we have.

So let's just you know, they get it from humans. So anyway, so the dog gets this and doesn't know what to do with it. It freaks out, The hair falls out, the skin gets thick and turns grayish blackish, and it becomes very, very itchy. And the problem with that is that because it becomes itchy, they scratch at it, they spread the infection because it's high contagious, just like in people. In animals or dogs, it's contagious, so spreading

it makes it contagious. So they're spreading it around themselves. They're also opening themselves up to secondary infections. Basically just makes all their hair fall out, and it makes it worse because now they're they're getting other infections, are getting sicker and sicker, weaker and weaker. They look gaunter and gaunter. They look horrid. If you want to make yourself cry, look up pictures of dogs with maine, because it is not a nice thing. It is a sad thing to see.

And what what happens though, is that these poor critters now they're weak. They you know, they can't actually hunt like that. Let's take a dog or kayak. They're kind of a semi apex predator and they hunt down rabbits and squirrels and whatever whatever. They chase things down, but they're not fast, but they're they're pretty good at what they do. But now they've got maine, so they, yeah, they can't do well. So they can't catch their normal praise,

and now they become hungry and desperate. So where's the only food source around? Well, it's on a farm convenient store. Well, no, not the convenience. They don't normally shop at seven eleven

because nobody will give him a debit card. But the problem is, of course, is that they don't want to go to a human settlement because we as humans were super aggressive and we will take them out, yea, And they know this, but suddenly they have no choice, like that tied up goat is the only thing they can get. But of course they're also easily scared away. So now let's say they attack the tied up goat and then the guy who owns the goal comes out and yells

and they run away. Well then he shows up and all he finds is his bleeding goat on the ground with no blood in it. He doesn't know what the hell is going on. Thus he thinks a vampire attacked his goat. So it could be Maine because it does terrible, terrible things to these particular critters. Makes them look pretty ugly, that's for sure, although I'd like to point out too

that it would be probably child's play. For the US government to pluck the hair out of some poor animals from poor canine and set them loose out there, you know, just just to throw us all off the track of

you know, the real chuppy. Oh are you saying they like give him a buzz job and then spread the hair everywhere and say, oh, it was something else I'm saying, say they they essentially like you know, shave their hair whatever, and then set them loose to basically with the object that they will attack livestock, be spotted, be reported as this unearthly like, awful, monstrous creature which you know, darts off into the darkness and uh, and that will basically

allow people like you to spread this kind of misinformation. You know what I'm saying. I get it. I gotta yea. I don't like the theory either. Okay, you know what the theory I really like. So based on the area. And by the way, this is not in the script, so don't look at it because it's not gonna help you out. Have you ever looked at the Mexican hairless dog, the ones with the mohawks? Okay, a friend of mine

has a Mexican hairless and her name is Chupy. She has gray, weird looking skin and a very briskly black mohawk. And every time I read about the chub of Cobra, I look at that dog and I think, well, you're too cute and sweet to do that. But but maybe if you didn't live in an apartment with kibble all the time, you would do it. Probably probably all three

of us would do it too. We're desperate enough, but true. Also, I also really want to have a hairless dog, except my wife will not let me have a dog, a hairless dog in the house because if you ever petted a hairless animal, it's like petting your forearm, which is weirdly soothe, but not to anybody else. I do not pet my forearm. I got all kinds of weird stuff, but I don't pet my forearms. See, this is what keeps me comfortable in times of stresses. I just pet

my forearms. Well, let's go on to our next theory here, which is, oh, oh, this theory. Actually, this is probably one of our most solid theories we have to date, which is the Chupa Cobra created this particular podcast and has for the past five years forced us each week to make it or pay us. You know, actually there is a theory out there which is not really but you know, Chupy might be actually the first self promoting

quasi mythical animal out there. He might be the you know, the public the obverse of Bigfoot who actually is secretive. It might be the Chupy just can't get noticed and he's trying really hard. Listen, have you seen the book written by the Bigfoot though write books book? I have not seen that one agreed book. It's really good. Yeah, it's really well written. Okay, there you go. There's also we have one other theory here, which is that all of these particular theories that we have read out today

are correct. And it turns out that we were not in fact paid by the Chupa Cabra to foster more and more disinformation about the Chupa Cobra and per the that we all signed for the NDIA that we all signed because he's true, we're not even supposed to be saying what we're saying right now about that. Yeah, no, lawyer me please please Okay, any other last chupacabra theories that you guys want to throw it, I mean, personally per our n d A. I don't believe we're allowed

to spread it. I don't think I'm gonna come down on the side of an alien lead behind. Yeah, I like the alien fluffy theory. Actually, yeah, I think so tragically they're they're pet round off or just creators that stowed away in the ship that kind of Yeah, that's probably what it was. Yeah, alright, boys and girls, Well, now that we've solved the mystery of the Chupacabra, we need to talk about that bit of information that we told you in the beginning of the episode that you

need to listen for. Yeah, so you're still listening. I really hope they're listening to other oness gonna be really really confused later, because here's the deal, guys, the Chupacabra episode, this is our last episode. We are we're finishing the podcast. I know you're gonna be upset about it, but I want you know the reason why, and I want to be honest with it, is that I personally I'm moving

out of the country. I'm moving to Southeast Asia, and with the time zone differences and the unpredictability of internet connections, there's just there's just no real way for us to continue to make the podcast. And when I talked to Joe and Devon about this one, when I knew and I was gonna move, we figured it out and we said, listen, the one thing we want to do is we want to make sure we get to that five year mark.

We've were so close. Let's hit that anniversary. And that's why we we've gone to this episode that we did. By the way, people have asked us in personal interactions, well, what would be your final episode? Well we always said, well, it would have to be the chup of Cabra. So thus why Choopy got to be the crowning final episode. So there's some things that I would like to share, some heartfelt things I'd like to express to all of

you who have supported us through the years. I want to say thank you, And to all of you who have wind and complained about the slightest perceived offenses, I want to tell you to piss off. But seriously, honestly, uh, it's been a blast getting to to bring the show to everyone for all the years, and I loved getting to interact with everyone. I mean, there's been so many of you, and and the Internet is a dark and scary place and you guys made it such a good place to be and it was it was such a

positive thing that I really really appreciate that. I don't know how better to express it than to say that. But but don't worry. Just so you know, this is not the final episode of Thinking Sideways. We're gonna be releasing some more content. We forgot, content that was never actually released into the regular feed, and we're gonna be releasing that over the course of the next five or six episodes or so five or six weeks. So keep

an eye out on that. And when it comes time for any of us to start a new venture or anything like that, we're gonna let you know. Our social media is still going to be out there. Personally myself, I'm gonna be taking time while I'm abroad to work to focus on my photography. If you want to follow any of that, you are more than welcome to do so. I'm on Instagram and on two Twitter. On Instagram, i am how Steve sees the world. On Twitter, i am how Steve sees Those are the two places that you'll

see me. And we'll put this on the website so that you can track all of that. But thank you very much. I really really don't know how better to say it, but it has been phenomenal. Yeah, I mean, I, um, some of you already follow me on my personal personal social media's um pretty much miss d K power everywhere. And again we'll you know, push this out on social

media in case you want to connect with us. And like Steve said, we're going to keep our thinking sideways social media alive for as long as we can bear to do it, which maybe another five years for all we know. UM, And I just wanted to say what an absolute joy it's been to see this community become what it has, you know, you those of us that

have been here since the beginning. You know, we started this five years ago and when we were first starting out, it was just you know us and and pretty much just us in Justin and Aaron from Generation Why doing true crime and unsolved mysteries. And since then the community has grown into something insane, which is for better for worse.

And I don't I don't want to call out our friend podcasts for fear of leaving some some of them out, but you guys know who you are, and we just love you and have loved getting to know you and want to send a huge and special shout out to our Facebook mods who are Christina, Alexa, Kyle, Draco, Jamie and Leslie. Without them, the Facebook group would have been

shut down four years ago easily. Most of all, I just want to thank all of you for listening, everyone who we met at meetups and and crime con everyone who listened and emailed and helped make this really fun. Yeah, thank you everyone for making this what it was for the last five years, and for me for my part. Sorry about the short notice on this. It's a little bit of a real surprise for some of you, I'm sure, and we're a little sad about this, but try to

remember it's not necessarily goodbye forever. We'll still be a round, like I said on social media. And uh, you know, I've been pondering the possibility of maybe a new podcast or something. I don't know what, so you haven't heard the last of us. Necessarily now, don't delete our podcast from your feed, because if any of us starts a new podcast, well at the first episode or so much show up in our feet someday. And also, I have restarted my Twitter account, which I've had since ten and

never use. I'm not going to give you my handle because I wanted a new, spiffier handle that more fits, you know, the whole thing that we're doing these days. And when I went out and I had several good ideas, every damn one was taken. And I'm really really and and uh, you know, Davin had a wonderful suggestion was was Skytrain, and some jerk has taken it, and I'm really kind of angry about that. But anyway, so we will figure out a handle for you, and we'll put

it on social media. We will, yeah, so that we'll get that straight. Now, I'll get a handle out to you guys so you can follow me on Twitter, which I know you're dying to do. Then I I wanted to echo what Devon said about our Facebook mods, who are awesome, and I hope, by the way, I'm gonna stick around for a little while because our our Facebook and all their social and all our social media is

not going to just go away. Um. And also, of course our fellow podcasters, again echoing Devon, they're awesome that I kind of feel like there are extended family, kind of without the weirdness, but we all get along great. There's no backbiting, no ugly competition. Everybody's just awesome and I love you guys, all of you. And then you've all you've all been totally helpful over the years and

I really appreciate it. Uh. And lastly, of course, our listeners and uh, I never thought that when we started doing this that that many people would really want to listen to us, and uh and of course not nearly enough did, but still quite a few did, so that

was cool. Uh. We got a ton of messages from people saying stuff like how much said they love these weird little stories they've never heard before, or just you know, you make my commute to work bearable, or you just give me all these hours of on and enjoyment and

stuff like that, you know what I'm talking about. And uh, these messages have really meant a lot to me because they made me realize that our podcast, which we kind of started as a lark, it really our podcast it does make a lot of people's lives just a little bit better. I'm not saying we're changing the world in a huge way, but in a tiny way. We kind of we kind of do make it a better place I think anyway, And for me, that that has made

all the time we spent doing this really worthwhile. And I hope everybody else feels the same about all the time you've spent listening to us too. It's been great. We love you guys, and again, well we will we will see you again. Uh. And as as a final note, uh, not so much to the listeners, but to you both. Thank you so much. It's it's been amazing to work with you, and I couldn't imagine doing this with anybody

other than you two jokers. It's it's been a weird one, right, and at times it's been great and at times it's been what is going on? It's a bit like being on mushrooms, but it was a lot of fun. So yeah, I couldn't. I couldn't imagine you too. I don't care about you guys at all, so I don't care. Yeah,

that's kind of been apparent to me for a while now. Actually, Devin started out with this is a just a young woman in her mid twenties, um, and just watching her grow into a young woman in late twenties has been Oh my god, we got a Harry and the Hendricks. Alright, Well to YouTube. Thank you to everybody, out there. Thank you so much. Yeah, and by the way, just so

special thanks to Steve. Also because Steve was a guy who really wanted to do something on the internet really bad, and so it was actually kind of his idea to do a podcast. So we're gonna get a little extra credit for that. And also people don't know that Steve's our editor. He's actually been editing the sound all these years too. Yeah, so thank you for that. Thank you. Alright, guys, shall we shall we roll this up? All right, everybody, it's been good. A couple more episodes coming your way

in the feed. I believe there's gonna be five more bits of unreleased audio that you haven't heard yet before the whole thing closes up, shops, So thank you much. We really really appreciate it, and in some form we'll talk to you again. You'll be hearing from us sooner or later, I think. Yeah, bye, guys, Bye bye. I love you.