Thinking Sideways: Disappearance of Brian Shaffer

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dot com slash Wife between Us. That's McMillan m A C M I L L A N audio dot com slash wife between Us. Thank you, sorry, sorry, hey guys. Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast I Am Devin, joined as always by Joe and Steve. Today we're gonna talk about a mystery, why the disappearance? Yeah, it was suggested by everyone. Yeah, this is a popular one. Yeah, including uh, Sarah, Geen, Julian and Stephanie. They were the

first four and lots of others. Um and if you don't check the names of the episodes before you start listening to them, now I get to tell you we're going to talk about the disappearance of Brian Schaeffer today. Brian Shaffer, who's that. He's a guy who disappeared weirdly, really like out of a bar or something. This I know is a pet case for a lot of people

in general. So here's my typical. We're probably going to leave some of your favorite details out because there's a lot of risks disclaimer exactly, But we don't really need a little ears disclaimer, which is great. This is a yeah, it's just it's really weird. I would say endless speculation, I have to say to on the interne Oh yeah, tons of it. It's kind of I would say it's akin almost to the mar Murray case. And that realistically is first. As far as confirmed details that we absolutely

positively know, there's not that much. There four pages of details and about seventy million pages of conjecture, yeah exactly. I don't think even four pages of details. Yeah, I think including the videotapes yea. Yeah. But basically, the overview of this case is a guy walks into a bar and disappears forever. That is the worst joke ever. Yea guy walks into a bar. Bartender says, what is this a joke? Okay, So let's start at the top. Brian Schaefer was twenty seven when he disappeared, and he was

a medical student at the University of Ohio. It was his second year and he had two more years until he would become a doctor, So he was halfway through, two more years until he starts the suffering process of being a resident and everything else well tech nically, yeah, true, but two more years, two more years of medical school. Yeah. Yeah, he had been in school the entire time. He did the high school, the undergrad and microbiology and then onto the grad program he was in. It wasn't one of

those guys who took a break at some point. Yeah, and it took him a little longer to do his undergrad than four years, six years, which is okay, especially something like microbiologists. As long as it didn't stop from getting into med school, then no biggie. Yeah. By all accounts, he was a very smart, very nice guy. He was apparently a talented musician as well, often maybe joking but

kind of seriously not joking. You know the joke where people you know reveal their deepest, darkest wishes by quote unquote joking around about it. Favorite podcast, Yeah, yeah, it does not anyway. His his go to joke was that the doctor thing was just until his musical career took off. S actually plan a second career just in case that didn't happen. It's very true because he wanted to be Jimmy Buffett. Yeah, and there's already one Jimmy Buffett. He

would have to murder the other Jimmy Buffett. Well, and he was really into pearl Jam. Well, you want to actually, you want to actually hear a funny, weird bit of factoried about Jimmy Buffett. Okay, okay, so you know there's the whole Margaritaville lifestyle that Jimmy Buffett has been selling for years. He doesn't live that lifestyle. It was from the very beginning he said, I'm going to sell people this lifestyle and they have been paying him for it

for decades. Yeah, but how does he actually live? Is he like a non drinking guy. He lives in New Jersey. He's just your he's your normal runabout guy who doesn't drink much. He's not into the beach lifestyle. And he's like, no, I sing music and people buy my stuff and I live well off of it. Yeah, now it makes sense. Smart guy is a smart business man. Yeah, so Brian Schaefer back to our topic. Yes, like I said, he was also into pearl Jam. He had a pearl Jam

tattoo on him like the stickman or whatever. Yeah, given the peace sign or something like that, or big Hug or something. He had a good relationship with his family, which was his mother Renee, his father Randy, and his younger brother Derek. Unfortunately, Renee lost a long battle with a particularly bad type of cancer called it's it's bone cancer. It's it's bone marrow cancer, my yellow plastic syndrome. So it's that kind of something that's kind of similar to

what you call it. That's it. Yeah, the word balacting on the tip of my fulcon with my brain. Yeah. Now, but it's it's like a bone marrow thing it is. Yeah, So basically the formation of blood, yeah, exactly. And so it was a long, kind of painful battle for her. She she did unfortunately lose that battle in March of two thousand six. Her passing was hard on the whole family. Um. But those close to Brian said that he was taking it.

He at least outwardly, was taking it really well, but they suspected that he was not taking it as well as it seemed like, Yeah, you know, I gotta tell you that I haven't met to a couple of those long lingering all those things myself with my parents that by the time it's all over, you know, you've actually done a lot of your all the grief is really kind of behind you already, so you're kind of just ready to start living your life again exactly. Yeah, but

also you know, missing your parents. No, it still sucks, but I mean it's still it's not a it's not a real shock to the system like that they suddenly get killed in a rec Yeah, and you've had your time to say goodbye and all that stuff. At Ohio State University in two thousand six, spring break started on marcht one, Friday that year. Every year usually springbreak starts on Friday, except that one year where it was really

a lame and it started on Wednesday. Yeah. Ever, I feel like they'd be kind of nice, but I'd have to go all the way to the next Friday. It would be lame if it was literally, Oh got it okay, anyway, sorry, back to our case. Um, it started on Friday, the March one, which of two thousand and six, which is which is April Fool's Eve, but also the same month that Renee Brian's mom had passed away. We don't I

don't have a date necessarily for that. I was three weeks before, yeah, right, But I don't have like a specific date, which is fine, I think. But recently Brian had planned to go to Florida, Miami, specifically with his girlfriend Alexis for the bulk of spring break, where he was reportedly planning to propose to her. Are we going to talk about that part later on? I assume what Florida know the whole proposed, planned to propose? Bit um?

What about it? Well, so I see this everywhere and it really sticks in my crop because she's the one who seems to say it. I mean, was a ring ever found in his stuff? Like his brother is the one who brought it up first. Okay, but was a ring ever found among his possessions? I don't want to know. I have heard not that he had not bought a ring, which makes that doesn't think? I mean, I'll just say, yes, okay, traditionally he would have a ring and blah blah blah.

But I'm bothered by that bubble gum machine and get the plastic toy ring. But a planning ahead, it should have been somewhere maybe yeah, or maybe he was going to do it without a ring, which is also fine because from what I have heard or talked to a number of people, I know they say, I don't want to buy a ring because I know she's going to want to help pick it out. So he says, Okay, we'll go pick out a ring. I'm gonna buy it for you. You'll have the perfect ring. And I don't

trust myself, blah blah blah. What don't you get yeah? Or you know, just no heir fiance well enough, or maybe had it all planned out to wander into a jewelry store in Florida and then just like say you like that, right, okay, I'll buy it. Then you get on your knees and say and then she says no, yeah, or you don't even buy it yet, you buy ideal. Yeah, but then that next to the rest of the vacation. A little bit uncomfortable, of course, but at least you

saved a lot of bucks, but not buying the jewelry. Yeah, well, so regardless of the ring. Oh yeah, that's okay. I I hear what you're saying. Um, But the first time I thought said was from his brother, and it's my understanding that he had talked a little bit about it when he was out to dinner with his father on the thirty first as well. But yes, I agree, And also it was a little weird to me because they've

only been together for a year. But the ring that bothers you, Okay, sure, no evidence of the actual intention to make it not well one bothers me at all. I guess yeah, I was gonna say either way, it doesn't really matter because they had planned to go to Miami for a week together. They were in a serious, committed relationship to each other. That's really all I guess we really need to know about it. Anyhow, Brian's father, Randy, came into town to visit and celebrate springbreak with Brian.

Is always how you will see it reported that they were there to celebrate spring break. I really think Randy was just thinking, you know what, my wife just died. Um, I really care about my son, and I you know, care about both of my children, and I just, you know, I want to see him and this is a great excuse, and maybe he wanted to see how he was doing. Yeah, see how he's doing, spend some quality time with him.

Knowing he was going to leave for a whole week, you know, just a couple of weeks after his wife and and Brian's mom had passed away, you know, just kind of yeah, I think it's a check. It's a check and also just a you know, nice time to see him. So they went out to dinner that night or that evening, I guess, to a steakhouse. It's not really clear what time it was, but I do think it was like evening time, like you know, five six o'clock. And Randy said that it seems like Brian was tired.

That to you, yeah, it sounded like he had been pulling a lot of all nighters for exams that were coming up. I could never do that. That's not a great idea. I was really good at the all nighters. It was the staying then staying up for the exam the next day and actually being able to actually think cohera during the exam that was kind of tough. And here's the pro tip for all of you listeners who

are still in school. It actually is like scientifically proven better for you to sleep because your brain will actually retain the information. So go to sleep, stop listening to us, go to sleep, wake up for your finals tomorrow. You're going to be fine. I had a cool hall listenation and final exam one time from pulling an all night. I was going to say, we can talk about that later.

We'll talk about that, yeah. Um. Randy said interviews after Brian disappeared that he remembered feeling like he didn't think Brian should go out with his friends as he had planned later that night, because he seems so tired. But he didn't say anything because you know, Brian's an adult, which I think is fair. But you know, when you get out there to the bar, you know, loud music and the booze is a big energizer for me. I don't know about you guys. Yeah, yeah, yes, it's an

energy at the beginning. And you know usually at that age, at that age three years ago, you have some coffee or you know, an energy drink or something like that. Sometimes to help you out alone, it's probably drinking red Bulls or something. So Brian goes out. The main friend that he's with is named William Florence, but this guy's nickname is Clint, so we're going to call him Clint. Brian met Clint at the Ugly Tuna Saluna. I'm gonna call it that everything the full name every single time. Yeah,

I think. I think it's tuna phobic. I don't um. They met at nine pm that night and then started bar hopping down kind of a main drag streets a town, right. Clint says that at each bar they took a shot, then moved on. At about ten pm, Alexis says Brian called her because she was visiting her family about a couple hours away before, which is like a two and a half hour drive from Columbus where they were, or like outside of where wherever UM or Ohio State University is.

I think actually in the beginning of this, I said it was University of Idaha or of Ohio that in the southland here, man, it's good. Um anyways, it was actually os U, so sorry for that earlier. Anyway. Alexis says that about ten PM, Brian called her because she, like we said, she was visiting her family. Um, just to say that he loved her and you know, he was out and you know he would see her. It was like an hour into the night, I think, is where I've seen it. So he must have started drinking

around nine o'clock. They were, Yeah, they do they have that time stamp? Clint said they met at nine pm and then they started bar hopping, and you know, I suspect she was probably thinking like, I'm gonna go to bed soon, and he called her to say good night, and he loved her and he was going to be out after a drink or two. Your loving Yeah, I'm figuring he probably had about twelve shots under his belt by this time. That was a whole hour. I don't

think probably, But anyway, an unspecified time after midnight. I think it's close after midnight, but it is never actually specified. Clinton Brian run into one of Clint's friends named Meredith Reid, who then gave them a ride back to the Ugly Tuna Saluna. Meredith is a guy, correct, I believe, because I mean Meredith is one of those names that can be a male or female. And I'm pretty sure it was a guy and not a girl, but a girl.

I initially I was like, oh, it must be a lady, but then a bunch of stuff that I read gave me the impression that it was all the guys going to the last bar. This is very odd. Here's what I'll tell you is I watched the crap out of the surveillance well, and I can't Well, the surveillance tapes are really good, but Brian is standing in front of Meredith and walking, and so you can't actually tell. So I think, well, I don't know, Stid that they are

standing on the step below Brian. And Brian was six too, so I don't know, not taller than six two plus five inches. Um so I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I believe it's a guy. But again that's positive because there's so much weird reporting on this one. Yeah. And that's the other thing is I've never seen it. I don't think i've ever seen it. Specified I'm like racking my brain. Um so, I'm really sorry everyone. I'm going

to admit there's a lack in my research. Sorry. Yeah, but I actually think it it's probably is a female type person, just simply because I have I have an eye for this sort of thing. Like if if, like say, on the Wikipedia page, Meredith would have been referred to at some point as him or he or something like that. Never page problem. It's either either read as in the last name or they as in the he or that person. And Clint's it's always very gender non specific is what's

bungling all of us. We're gonna we're gonna make Meredith into a girl here. I think I think we're just gonna just call Meredith and Clint. We're gonna let Meredith stay gender non specifically. Meredith likes it anyway. Meredith gave them a ride back to the Ugly Tuna Saluna, where they all planned to end their night then go home. Brian reportedly got separated from Meredith and Clint at this spot.

The bar closes at two ammal, which is normal, so Clinton Mereth figured they'd wait outside the only exit from the bar and they'd fight Brian in the crowd exiting. When they didn't see him, they assumed that when they've been separated from the bar, Brian had just left without telling them, you know, he couldn't find them or whatever. Um. The next morning, Alexis tried calling Brian but couldn't get ahold of him. His phone went girlfriend Alexis his girlfriend,

She said his phone went straight to voicemail. She just assumed he was, you know, sleeping it off, and so she tried it again later Finally on Sunday, when she still couldn't get ahold of him, his phone was still going straight to voicemail. She called Randy, Brian's father to see if he had heard from her him, and he hadn't, so they then called the police. Reporting varies on this, According to Alexis. On some news news reports that I watched,

they reported Brian missing Sunday. Wikipedia says that Brian was reported missing on Monday. He missed the flight to Miami. I don't know which is true. I would tend to believe Sunday. It was at least there too, but it was a couple of days, at least a couple of days. Friday night was the night that And this is something as it's not outrageous, but I think it's a little odd that Clinton didn't call him the next morning and just say, hey, what the hell did where were you?

Just just to see that he's all right. Well we don't I don't know that he didn't. Clinton is like after that night Clintons appeared. Yeah, he won't say anything, I think, trying to protect himself from the court mass negative appeal that. Yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean he's guilty of anything. Yeah, either way, Columbus police did get the

missing person's report, and they acted and totally reasonably. First they checked with local hospitals and homeless shelters to make sure he hadn't shown up any of those places, like you would expect them too. That would be, you know, the first place you would expect them to check, because did you Well, I mean, people don't understand why the cops do that, because if somebody gets let's say, whacked on the head and gets a concussion, they can be

in a weird state. Remember that, there's that for us in real time. The report of the guy who was on the East Coast when skiing apparently took a tumble and they found him a week later in California in the same clothes, with no memory of how he got there. I mean, that's why. But people are like, why they

check those places? That's why. Well, the hospital just because I mean, you could be unconscious in a hospital, but a homeless shelter, you know, anywhere that somebody could be warm and get services, pretty much they're going to check because for whatever reason, that's where they're going to go from there. Well, so obviously Brian was not found either

of those or any of those places. So then from there the investigators starting put together a timeline, basically the timeline we just talked about in a minute ago of what what Brian had been doing. The only additional detail that Clinton Meredith were able to provide is that they

thought they had seen Brian chatting with the band. And I thought that I read in one place again you read and all all kinds of different accounts, But he had said to them, Hey, I'm going to go talk to the band, you know, And that's the last word they heard from him, as he said he was actually going to go chat with ye. I don't know how much. Being a musician, I'm not surprised. I heard that they were.

This was late and they had actually stopped playing and they were starting to break down, and so maybe he just wanted to go talking about guitars for a little bit or whatever. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if they if you know, Brian said that to them, or they just saw him over there or what. But um, it does seem that Brian was chatting with the band

at least at one point. When interviewed, the staff at the Ugly Tuna Salona were totally unable or unwilling to provide any helpful information, though it seems they were reasonably cooperative. It was a bar full of people. How are you going to on the first night of spring break? Yeah, I had the same thought when I saw this, the footage with the security guys, like the security guards, billion people come screaming through. Yeah, and realistically, like it's Brian

isn't insanely He's not. He's not really unique looking? Yeah, yeah six to you know, reasonably built, white dude with brown hair. I mean, unless you're paying attention, like really paying attention and looking for him, Yeah, he's kind of Actually, I don't look at Brian and you think that's not really he's really all American, like he has the all American boy. But here's what I'll say is that in

Ohio there's a lot of all American. Yeah. Yeah. The police started searching the area around the Ugly Tuna Salona. They checked all the dumpsters in this kind of back alleyway. They were hoping to find any kind of clues. There were no no clues whatsoever. They searched the rivers and the entire campus of Ohio State University with searchdogs and didn't find anything. I have two questions. Yeah, I've not seen this one. Do we know what day garbage day

was for those dumpsters? We don't. Okay, I've never seen it reported. But that's why nobody seems to know that one. There's a lot of people who hear as he wind up in a dumpster and wind up going to the dogs. That happens, I'm sadly to a lot of people. But my other question is, because we get just based it about this, what kind of search dogs did they use? Dogs? Tracker dogs? We know that for sure, certainly, I would say within a reasonable I when I was looking, I

could never figure it out. And because the reason that I presume that is because they also I was going to save this for a little later, but they also searched. They had the dogs come in and sniff her on the bar to see if they could track Brian from the bar, and they were unable to do that because they got sidetracked by the jerky Martini. Probably yeah, But

so I presume they used the right kind of dogs. Okay, I would assume I had heard some rumor later though, that they came back later there was a construction site right next door. And then one of the theories is he fell. We'll talk about that in a little bit, and that it came back with could ever dogs and I supposedly got a hit there. Oh yeah, that's yeah. Yeah, So they didn't find anything. Then the police just decided, well, there is some surveillance footage, I guess, well, and also

specifically in the Ugly Tuna Saluna entryway. Therefore, I guess we can you know, sit an investigator in here and to review the what you know, twelve hours of video surveillance footage is to see if they can see anything worthwhile. So we'll pause here because I don't think that we've described how the Ugly Tuna Saluna is set up. This is really important. It is actually very I was dumb to me until I figured out, Yeah, it is really

really important. And the reason that I say this is because eventually the investigators were able to you even see where Brian Clinton Meredith had parked, how they walked from the parked car, like, even to the point of which of the support beams they walked past up through a little corridor area. They could track them all the way into the Ugly Tuna Saluna. But there were no surveillance

cameras in the Ugly Tuna Saluna. So they actually did touch the street, and it's not like they parked in a parking garage and came through the back door into the mall and into the bar. Right, they didn't touch a street. So there's a area then, well, I guess you'd call it a mall area, but it's like an open do we just want to start explaining how this whole place is set up because that might be the easy to lay the Yeah, that's probably the areat way. Yeah. Um, so it is kind of a mall area in that

like it's like a like a square area. Kyah. It's not like it's not like private closed off to the public, but it's not. It's pedestrian all but it's open air. Yeah, but it's open air between High Street, you know, which is like on one side, and then there's another sort of alley behind there and there's like a block long thing which is kind of mall like with a lot of bar. Yeah, like a plaza. It's wider than a street would be. It's kind of nice view. It's got

all kinds of cool stuff shops and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So so the Ugly Tuna Salona is on the second floor of one of these buildings. And this is very important because it means there's just one way in and one way out, and that was that way was under surveillance. There's a set of stairs and an escalator that goes up and an escalator that goes down, and covered and fully covered by one not moving eye of the camera. You can see everybody who walks up and down the stairs.

You can see everybody who comes up and down the escalators, And unlike most surveillance cameras, this one's pretty HD. You can definitely, I mean I was watching the way that I got to see the surveillance footage. Surveillance footage was from somebody pointing a camera at their TV at uh, you know whatever the NBC dateline, whatever it was, I can't remember off the top of my head. And I could still very clearly identify the person as Brian Shaefer.

Uh that you know, you could see kind of being tracked on this um no red circles or anything like that. So if it was good enough through the like five steps of somebody filming their TV with something and then uploading it onto YouTube, definitely, yeah. Used to the security cameras that take on a t M or something two or three second stills. You know, after two or three now this thing was shooting continuous video. There is a

back emergency exit on the first floor. I'm not totally clear how one accesses that emergency exit, but I will say that that emergency exit I believe is rigged to alarm when opened, which sometimes malfunctions, or they might have turned it off because it might have also served as like a loading dock, like the way for the band get in and out. It's possible. That's it's unclear, but possible.

And there's a motion sensor camera back there as well that turns on anytime there's any emotion back there and then zoom. It's reportedly zooms in like kind of wear a reasonable range of a head would be, so you can see a face of whoever is coming out, because you know, you're not supposed to use those exits but for emergencies, but they want to know. But I had heard also there was a like an employee exit, like

on the south side of the bar. That is, it's my understanding that is the employee exit that goes to that emergency exit down there. So it's like stairs that go to the emergency exitentro on the ground floor, right, But I don't really know how Like I don't know. I don't know if it's like you have to go through you know, the kitchen and the bar and like three other rooms to get to that staircase, or if it's just through some curtains that say emergency exit. Like,

I don't know the difficulties. They haven't published a floor plan. It would be nice to have one, would get that, yeah, really bapping the bottom of the ocean, but they won't map the inside of a bar. Well, it's it's kind of like the bottom of the ocean. It's the Ugly

Tuna saluna a good point. Also, as Joe kind of briefly mentioned before, at the time of Brian's disappearance, there was also a number of construction exits in that building as well, so that you come up, you know, to the Ugly Tuna saluna and on the second floor, and you know, there's kind of like an entry way area. It's not just like straight to the doors. There's a little bit of as an open atrium kind of area

a little bit. It's not it's not huge. It's like a theater off to your left right and then there's like a hallway ahead of you. I think, I don't think the theaters on that one. I don't think that the first floor. I think, you know, I always seeing as somebody posted a video and it's another one the feeds. If the Congress wants to do one useful thing, they

can and portrait videos. Somebody doing the whole freaking holding my iPhone up doing a portrait video going up the riding up the escalator to the top at the ugly two well, so you can see what it looks like. The bars off to the right, straight ahead, there's a short white hallway, you know that maybe it goes to bathrooms or star rooms or god knows what. And there's something off to the left. They can't really tell. It looks kind of molly. So from the camera angles, from

the surveillance camera angle, the escalator comes right up. There's like a wall that it comes up and it goes straight into the ugly Tuna salona. Basically there's like a little I don't know what to really call I guess atrium is a fine thing. And then so the camera's

looking down towards the outside the security camera. Um, so the escalators are coming up on the what would be the right side, but is on this the left side, and then the stairs are on like right next to it, to the right, and then the construction area is further to the right. Yeah, so it would be to the left it, but it may be that it was post construction. Um,

what we're talking about the same thing. Yeah, And and again I'm not really clear and what kind of construction they're talking about, because like when this is kind of a mall, and in a mall, there's you know, the original construction where you pour a concrete and everything and put on a roof, and then there's always when some tenant leaves and you rip out the walls and you

reconstruct the whole thing. And you've seen that going on the malls, right, So is that the kind of construction we're talking about, I'm not clear, A serious heavy duty concrete slabs kind of unclear unclear. Um, but through this construction site, which I understand was kind of hard to navigate even in the light, and you know, had lots of construction e hazards. You do, actually not think about it.

Whoever it was, Dateline or whoever it was, showed some footage of the quote unquote construction area, and it almost looked like a back section. How you see where there's all the pipes for for like malls, all of the plumbing runs through one area. Yeah, but I wasn't clear if that was I don't know if that's actually that or not, but it really gave me the impression that it was more of they were doing construction on that internal plumbing stuff and not a tenant's location like you

were talking about. Okay, but regardless, it's it's the only way in or out of this whole area is through that one camera surveillance thing or through the construction zone at the time that Brian Shaffer was probably and probably that's because they had torn out a wall and had built, but it was it was, you know, full construction zone, you know, plywooded off with like a door into it and then tons of hazards somewhere you don't want to

drunk to go wandering base actly. Yeah, and one that you would presume would be locked at night when it's like nobody needs access to it, but you think so. Yeah, So so the guys arrived back at the Ugly Tuna Saluna yep at midnight back to Yeah, back the tracking thing.

They actually they arrive back to the Ugly Tuna saluna at about one fifteen am, according to the surveillance camera footage that I was watching, the time stamp on it and the reporting though, Yes, so I guess they were bar hopping with Meredith a little bit before they came back to the Ugly Tuna Meredith wherever, right, right, that's what I mean. And then about forty minutes later, Brian is seen on the same surveillance camera at the top of that stairs escalator area. Like I said, the quality

is really good. You can see it's definitely Brian there. It looks a little intoxicated. He doesn't. He does, but he doesn't look like sloppy drunk. But he does not look sober. Yeah, but drink for four hours. He's definitely been drinking for four hours. But he's not like, you know,

falling all over himself. He's still able to walk and and and apparently not be so drunk because there are also two security guards standing at the top of the stairs, so he's not so drunk that they felt like they needed to intervene yea, I noticed that in this video. I was just telling you about there's do you go out there and there's a security guard standing right there,

It's like, what a great job that must be. But they got them right there, that is, that's how they can see the drunks coming right at the escalator and just intercept him before I have no idea from the bar and turn around and shove them right back down to downs. I have no idea, I really don't. But yeah, there were two security guards up there, and then there are two young women that he can be seen talking to. Uh, and there's a group of guys as well, kind of

off to the side. Yeah. And and some people say, oh, these guys followed him in and beat him up, but they seem to be standing there. They don't seem to be making movement, bottle him or an acknowledges. Yeah, but he does. He talks to these two young ladies for a minute, and then he walks back into the bar. And that's the absolute last time that anybody has ever been able to say they've seen Branch officially, officially, well not officially. It's the last time that anybody's ever come

for word and said, is what I'm getting at? Well? Yeah, I mean, but nobody's ever even claimed to really see him after that. I mean, that's the last time that anybody's ever said anything about brand Shaffer existing in this world. So that was that one am, this would be, this would be before he wants to talk to the band, right, I don't know if that's unclear, Okay, Yeah, So it was my impression that Meredith and Clint lost track of Brian pretty quickly after they got back to the Ugly

Tuna Salona. So you know, probably like one thirty ish would be my guess. I don't know, just guessing, just thrown out numbers here and then he could have gone out, or it could have been then, but the bar close they left the bar, they actually got their seemed going back to their car at two oh seven, So it's that's a pretty quick time for them to be like, oh, we lost track of him, Okay, we'll see him coming out, and then wait five minutes and then say, oh, okay, whatever,

you just went home, I guess. But I didn't go inside the bar or check the bathrooms or anything like that. I So that's why I think they lost track of him much earlier in the night, because it makes way more sense even in a drunk brain for them to say we haven't seen him in a half hour. He probably just went home. He was tired, you know, versus we saw five minutes ago. Whoa, I wonder where he went. He just must have gone home. It's fine, you know. That's my two cents still, And I heard that in

two thousand and six. That was kind of a bad neighborhood. And they really probably shouldn't. They should have checked a little more thoroughly. Probably, but you know, they were also drinking, and they were they were dropped, and they were young and irresponsible. I got it. Yeah. So yeah, that's everything we know for sure about Brian Shaffer. Well okay then, so um we're about theories. But first we're going to take a break. Hello, and welcome to Spontaneous Poetry Night

here at Thinking Sideways Studios. First, as a master of terrible and amazing or really terrible puns me, sky scrapers are tall, embankments are small. There's only one true ring to rule them all. Wait, that's wrong, Sorry, they hang on, hang on link, let me start again. One thousand bad guys bullets fly, but none of them hit our good guy heroes. Bullets barrel fourth many enemies end up with their heads facing north. No, No, that's that's all right,

all right, here we go. Thors Hammer is huge, and so is that dude like that. I don't even know where the hell that came from. Um, let's try this one more time, because I think I've got it. The fence may have known what trouble was brewing and stewing, but unfortunately they did not know what they were doing. Ha I nailed it. What the heck does that have to do with anything? Well, that has to do with the new show coming out on Hulu, The Looming Tower.

Looming Tower is based on the Pulletzer Prize winning book by Lawrence Right, and this limited series traces the easing threat of a SMA bin Laden and how the rivalry between the f beyond the CIA may have set a path for the events of nine eleven. Starring Emmy winner Jeff Daniels, Golden Globe nominee Peter Sarsgard and to hear Raheem as Ali Soufan. The Looming Towers available only on Hulu, So go there and check it out, and we're back. Our first theory is Aliens abducted him. Okay, I can

get behind this flushed this out for me. Unlikely. Okay, you're just jerking my chain. As soon as I get on the alien bandwagon, she jerks the rug out from underneath me. Well, if you look at pictures at the Egg of Salona, the building it's hand, it actually looks kind of like a spaceport. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean I could totally see a little mixed up with the

aliens there. Yeah, honestly, for all we know, somehow without anybody else noticing, Brian Shaefer was abducted by aliens from the Ugly Tuna Salona after five am the night of March Well, I guess by that time April one, two thousand and six, what did I say, that's somewhere he is currently drafting crop circles for the aliens. Yeah, okay, why not? Why not? I don't, I think, because it's silly. Probably not that one. Actually he would be a high

value one for the aliens. Yeah, probably have medical knowledge and stuff, you know, so it makes sense. So he is now in charge of the probe program. Yeah, okay, he's their lead scientist on medical humanoid research. Is in the bottom of the chain, Yeah anyway, Sorry, More seriously, the next theory is that he left to start a new life or otherwise take a break. I mean, I can, I can kind of see this one. For one thing, there's I mean, no evidence of a crime has really

ever been found. The police brought in prime seen experts and dogs see if they can find blood or anything to suggest that Brian had been harmed or around the Ugly Tuna saluna. Didn't find anything. Although especially if we've been murdered in the kitchen, then I sing about murdering people in an industrial type kitchen, commercial kitchen, you have to clean it every day anyhow, really, and so it's a great excuse to go, you know, whereas if I

cleaned my kitchen, that would be suspicious. Well, if you cleaned anything, it would be suspicious. But but but one thing I will say is that in a kitchen at a pop I mean you at a place like the Ugly Tuna sluna, not much blood. Usually around the bloody, bloody beef they actually well food. Well even if it isn't. I mean, you know this about the meat that we get in America, it doesn't ever have actual blood in it. It has that thing that it secretes is something totally different.

Not actually blood. It's been drained of blood. So if there's blood in the kitchen, either a chef was real bad at doing his job and cut himself or somebody was murdered there. Either way, there was no real evidence of that in or around the Ugly Tunas Luna as mentioned, So you know, so in that respect, it does kind of speak to him just walking away and starting life. Yeah.

On the other hand, like we said, search dogs couldn't track a track him out of there, which seems like they would have been able to do had he just walked out on his own. Also, no activity on any of his bank accounts or his cell phone has been reported, nor did he take out cash. But if you want to start a new life, you know, of course he would have all new back accounts and credit cards already set up. Sure, you would think he would have cleaned

out the back accounts. You would think that. Yeah, And apparently he wasn't really a cash guy. He didn't really carry cash with him, which is like most of people in large generation. Um, so his ability to survive without account seems unlikely. You millennials flail with cash, yeah, uh, plastic and bitcoin mostly. How many bitcoins do you have any wallet right now about point o O O O five of a bitcoin, so you're you're practically a millionaire

and they're worth a lot right now. Oh wait, no, wait, I have one dollar? Wait a million dollars? Yeah. One thing I'll mentioned here is that Alexis did make a habit of calling his phone a lot. I think she even said it herself. She just wanted to hear his voice, which I think is understandable. Yeah, she said that one time she called and it rang instead of going streaked voicemail singular. That's how old this case is. Brian, then

cell phone provider, said that it was a fluke. We've talked about this on the show before that oftentimes a phone will return a ring while it's trying to connect. It's not actually ringing to um. One of the things that I wondered about what this is how long did these calls that she Alexis made to him a lot? Because I heard it one out for like six months or or more. I can call on the phone. So who was paying his phone bill? I think his dad was paying him the entire time. I don't think he

was paying for his own phone bill. That wasn't the impression I had at least. Okay, Yeah, so somebody kept it just maybe just hoping still had the phone on him or something like that. Yeah, I mean I presume it was probably a family plan. Um. I was on my parents family plan for a long time. Well, especially when kids, when your kids are still in school, that's the way to ensure that they can always call well, but also to ensure they can always call you. You

don't have an excuse to not call you. But I would, you know, if my child went missing. I don't have any children, but if I could put myself in those boots, I would keep paying the plan if I had no idea where that kid was dead or otherwise, just on the hope that maybe one day they'd turn it on and call me. Yeah, you know, absolutely, I totally get that. Ye. Also, you'll see people suggest that Brian had traded clothes with

someone and snuck out in someone else's clothes. But like we said, it was a good camera, and I think it's not as though Brian was wearing crazy unique clothing, but it was a good enough camera that if somebody was leaving leaving something that wearing something that looks kind of like his, that would you would be able to see it. I don't know. I just I don't. I don't think a lot about that theory as a whole. Bryan could have it could have actually had on a

layer of clothes underneath his clothes. And I don't take tick clothes off, stuff them in a waste basket in the restroom, walk back out with the new the new layer of clothes on, you know. And so I mean I could see that you don't need to trade clothes with somebody or have a cocause it didn't really look like he was wearing enough clothes to be wearing something under it. But it's possibly could had a T shirt

on underneath this other shirt. Well, okay, so let me stop you because I can tell looking through the list here, this is the only theory that you have wherein he leaves under his own power. It appears that everything else is in some way. Uh, it's it's not so much so there there actually is another theory out there where he leaves under his own power, but it's similar to this. But there are a couple other theories peppered in here

where he might have left on his own power. Well, let's let's just talk about this now while we're here, I mean, maybe'll help of the other theories later on. Is I, as a younger man, when drinking, I used to develop what I called drunk kleptomania, wherein I would see something like, let's just say a ball cap and be like, oh, that's a nice hat. I'll take it and put it on and walk away with it. I had. I mean, it's not like I have a habit of stealing things. It just it was like a fascination, and

so I just kept it. He could have very easily picked up a hat or put on somebody's jacket and then wandered out there. And while that camera is good from behind, if his clothing suddenly, you know, like just his say a jacket or a hat, he's now rendered not easily identifiable by that camera, maybe not identifiable. So he could have potentially just walked out of the bar on his own and not had what I'm seeing as

kind of these nefarious theories down the line. True, don't you think a tracker dog would have been able to track him? Though? Still they didn't bring him into days after, right, Yeah, Yeah, so that's I mean, there's a lot of traffic I mean, bars have so many people coming. Plus also that that floor that's like like the bar, the bar floor, and the floor front the escalator. Probably the escalator probably was getting clean mopped vacuum because you know, it was hurt

all the time. Still drinks and yeah, yeah, I mean that's definitely al I can picture this. He meets a girl, they kind of hit it off. She's a little chilly, so he pulls off his shirt he's still wearing a T shirt and puts it over her, and so she's wearing his shirt and they leave the bar together, you know, But then what happens to him after? I mean you still have to explain all that. Is that to be like, you know, sort of black widow. Now see, I've I've

thought about this before. Is I figured, well, either he walked outside, whether it's with another lady or by himself, and then this is where my he crawled into a dumpster idea came from, or because it is a crappy neighborhood, somebody said hey, buddy, come here and then beat the crap out of him and then dumped his body somewhere where he goes home to a girl and boyfriend. Let's just pause on that a second, because I do we

are going to talk about. But let's get to another fun theory that I heard on the internet where he left under his own volition and this makes sense, and that and then his mother had just died, and that is that. The theory here is that Brian really wanted to be a woman, and so he goes into the bar and changes into like, you know, women's clothing and leaves and starts his new life as Bette Midler. Yeah. I guess there was Brianna or something, and so this

is Brianna, Yeah, Brihanna. Yeah. But anyway, this is on like Redd and or something like that. You know, I don't take it too seriously, but you know, I mean, we owe it to our listeners to get them every loopy theories out there. I don't think we owe it to them at all. Iologies to mispronouncing your name. No, he was talking about Brianna, like female version of Brian.

Oh I thought you were talking about the singer. No. No, but okay, So more seriously, though, I do just want to say about this whole left to start a new life type theory that his disappearance really seems I mean, it really caused those in his life a lot of pain. I mean, he just didn't seem like the kind of guy to do that, you know. I mean, and I know that's kind of a cop out thing to say, he just didn't seem like the kind of guy to do that, But I really his dad is just like heartbroken.

He was even more so was Yeah, and and Alexis and and Brian's brother Derek, and everybody who really cared about him was just so heartbroken that I don't I just don't think he would have just walked away from all that. I feel, you know, I feel kind of really sad for his younger brother because his mom died and then Brian disappears, and then his dad was killed in a freak accident. Accident, Yeah, just like two years later, and so he's like an orphan, you know, his brother's

got in like two years time. They all die. Yeah, oh my god, it's really yeah. I mean, so, I just I just don't think he I don't think he would have done it. He would would have thought he would have come back for his dad's funeral anyway. Yeah. Yeah, well we can talk about that later. Yeah. Uh so the next theory is over it is an umbrella. Theory is foul play ducks. No, the first one here is random act. So this kind of feeds into what you

were talking about. Is that, either in the bar or potentially out of the bar, he could have left via you know whatever, I met a girl, even though it seems like he was pretty serious with this other girl, but whatever, um break. Don't say that um Or for whatever reason, left undetected of his own volition, but then met some sort of foul play, got beat up, accidentally slept in the dumpster, got picked up, things like that.

I don't see this one as much because there was no activity on his credit cards or his cell phone. So if somebody I'd beat him up or whatever, you would think they'd take a stuff and at least try to use it. Yeah. Maybe, But at the same time, it's like if you mean the mug a guy and you accidentally kill him, Yeah, and you realize you probably

killed him. You might take his wallet, but then think, you know, we're probably better not use this uses cards and stuff, and well probably, And so I could totally see where you you intended to just take his stuff and you unintentionally kill him, or I mean I guess I couldn't even see now that I'm thinking about it. You you know, you mug him, thinking we'll take all the cash this guy's got. You know, he's probably got some cash on him, he's got no cash, and you're like,

dang it, yeah, dang it, all right. Well never, I mean, if somebody mugged me, they'd get my credit cards. And that's it because I have literally zero, like not even a quarter in my wallet type of cash situations, so I'm not allowed to have cash. It evaporates. Yeah. Well, I mean that's why I stopped carrying cash, honestly, because it was spent money in my brain and I was just like, I can't do this anymore. So that's why

I prefer cash over like credit cards. Even though I have cards and I use them, they're very handy, I find out more mindful of the way I spend money. If I'm using cash, I use defit cards. So it's that I use my debit card a lot more credit. Nobody needs to know financial situation. But anyway, I do think it's conceivable that somebody did actually mug him and just not you know, use the cards. Yeah, I mean, it's it is, but I also think they did a

really good job hiding the body. Yeah, that's the thing I don't get either. They would bother you know, the criminals. Most criminals don't care about that kind of stuff. The longer you hang out with the body, as a matter of fact, the more likely or to get busted with

the body. So if you just run away and leave it lay on the sidewalk, Yeah, and it was, and it would have been a probably we can reasonably assume that it would have been relatively close to citywide last call, so you know, Friday before spring break, college town last call, but there's gonna be a lot of people on the street. It was what did they say it was like a minute walk from the bar to his house? Yeah, I heard it was like six blocks to his house. Is

that what? Okay? Something gave me the impression that was close to campus. Well, but I got the impression that it would have taken him some time. No, it said it would have run him through then not so nice neighborhoods. And so that's why he could have very easily disappeared. If somebody assaults him, as Joe said, then realizes they killed him, drag him into the backyard and then do whatever they do to yeah, yeah, yeah, um and yeah.

Apparently the bad at least back in in two thousands six, a bad neighborhood started like about a block away from the ugly. Now that there were so many security cameras, it's probably actually the reason that there was a security Yeah, probably now that we thought yeah, um okay, so I guess next are years already to move on. The next duck theory is that the roadies for the band might have been involved. I'm not totally sure what the motivation

would have been here. It could have been, you know, but I guess the only thing, the only other unexplored lead really is that Brian was seen chatting with the band. So you know, maybe the band was like, we didn't really want to talk to him, roadies, can you take care of him? Maybe he was like touching all over

their stuff. There's a number of things he could have been doing, yeah, and I do yeah, So there's a number of things that he could have done, you know, low imagine that might have kind of just ticked off a roadie or one of the bands something I doubt. You know. Typically bar bands don't have roadies. They usually carry their own stuff. Yeah, well they'll have the big dumb friend. They usually keeps people out of the van

while they're loading. Sometimes they do have that, and that drives and that is the important support that person has. Typically isn't drinking because Devin said, they're the one, because the band is normally getting drinks. And also, you know, they gotta like sleep for the next gig they're I don't know, but I don't Yeah, and I guess I don't really know. But you know, there's so many different

things that I guess could have happened here. But he could have been injured or killed the band, the band or somebody associated with the band, Yeah, exactly. Um, you know, maybe he even it was like a total accident. Maybe he fell over the drum set and the symbol just like crashed on his head and he was knocked unconscious

and they were like, oh god, what are we doing? Yeah, I mean, and so that is actually the theory is that it's possible that his body was stuck into a case for something and then rolled out and put into the band van and then but the thing is is that then they would have to bring that case back in and put what actually belonged in there in there

to take it back out. And it seems like assuming this is assuming that that camera any of the cameras around where they were loading, and I assumed they were loading through the back, but I don't actually know that for sure, um was working. That's that is a big

assumption that we have to make here. The police would have been while they were reviewing all those failings tape seen these people like would come with this like giant, you know, drum kit case and like go into their truck and like do some stuff and then come back out with the case, and they probably would have thought we should talk to these people of that suspicious. Yeah, although um another theory that I heard is that he

wants to chat with the band. They were breaking down at that time, taking it and getting ready to get out of there, and he was chatting, of course, but you know, I wanted to shot talk about you know, their guitars and all kinds of other stuff. And and meantime, this guy is about to you know, haul something heavy out there, and Brian's like, hey, let me help you with that. So he helps the guy take it to the freight elevator and they go down to go out the back way, and that might be he was just

with being with the band. He might have actually been helping this guy loved something. He was behind it when the camera goes off and everything, so he doesn't get seem going out the back so he's actually helping these guys carry carry something heavy item out the back door. And once they're out there, the guy says, hey, dude, thanks, he you want to go do a couple of lines in my vand before we go back inside. I mean, it's not right. That's a heart attack from the front

the I mean, this thing is totally possible as well. Yeah, even if they're not doing lines that he leaves with the band for you know, not whatever, to leave with a band, to leave to go drink some more or whatever. I did think. I do tend to think with this case that the fact that he got out of there, that he got out of there without being seen by the cameras, and the fact that he disappeared, they're obviously related. I mean they're not there could be too, very just coincidentally,

two really unusual things happening. I don't think one thing, Yeah, and one thing I will say is um, as we're talking about these backdoors. Like I said, it's my understanding they were like rigged to go off with an alarm, but they were also probably the loading dock. Probably, I

don't know that for sure. I've gone out to some of those doors that say an alarm will go off and it doesn't go off, right, And then the other thing, Yeah, And then the other thing is is that um I was reading I think I was reading through I'll write it threat on this or something like that, and some guy was a bartender and he said, yeah, we have a backdoor that's rigged with a motion detecting camera quote unquote right, And we turned the sensitivity to thing on

that thing way down slash off because every time a leaf blew past, it was going off and we were like being alerted and we just couldn't or it was malfunctioning or whatever. There's so much that could have gone wrong with that camera. But because we don't see anything, I've never seen in the reporting of this, you know, the police saying also we reviewed the tape from the

back camera. They don't talk about the tape from the back came at all, which leads everybody to believe that the back camera didn't ever grow off right, never activated, so there was no motion back there, when actually it could be it was just turned off or wasn't working or whatever, or somebody had outsmarted at a k A put a piece of tape over it so that the band walking back and forth, the door opens for the Maybe the employees like to go smoke back there, and

they weren't supposed to take smoke breaks. I mean, honestly, there's so many things that could have happened to that back camera. Um that that's and that's another thing. That's the way you could have gotten out that way, Like you're talking about, you might have been talking to somebody who worked at the bar, so you know, and they said, hey, you know, I don't have much time, but I don't want to go smoke a cigarette. Could you want to

go out back? And so, and once out there they get jumped or you know, I've gotten Maybe he got some secondhand smoke and it killed him. Yeah, I don't know, Yeah, because smoke kills second Yeah, yeah, tell that, but I don't. I don't find it too perplexing actually that he got out of that without being spotted on camera, though, really I don't either. I mean That's the thing with this case is initially you were led to believe one way in, one way out always surveiled. And the more I read,

the more I decided that's actually not completely true. And there's a whole nest of ways that he could have exited the building unobserved. So, um, Brian briefly was you know, like we said six too. He was also like a hundred and sixty five pounds kind of normal build. Um, so it is possible that he could have been helping

with something. Um. The next three I'm just going to move a little bit further through these, is that like the bouncer could have done something, you know, it's kind of the same theory of he could have had an altercation with a bouncer and they bounced him a little too hard, though I don't I don't know if they had bouncers because they had the security guards right outside. And it's my understanding that the Ugly Tuna Saluna had

a small restaurant component to it. It wasn't just like a bar, it was like a seafood bar and grill. So the host slashed hostess station may have served as their age checker or there's no age limit on the space. There's just age limit on getting booze. So the bartenders check your I d when you go up, and that's it. I've been to a number of places in college towns. Tends to not be that way. It tends to be a person sitting there checking ID. But it's usually like

that's also not necessarily a bouncer type person. It's just like a dude or a lady sitting on a stool board out of their mind checking I das. And sometimes those guys too that they'll they'll deliberately hire a guy who's a big guy, but who's but actually he's not actually trained in martial arts. He's not actually mean or going to brutalize anybody, but maybe not that strong tattoo Yeah those tattoo sleeves. Yeah yeah, but I mean so that.

But this is a theoryal C floated around, is that it doesn't look to me, like looking at the pictures and the videos and stuff like, it doesn't look like the kind of bar that really needs, you know, really and there's those two security guards right outside, so if something does happen, they can come out. And you know, the other thing is is that I've never seen anything

about Brian being a particularly violent or angry drunk. Some people can be just obnoxious drunks, maybe, yeah, but he certainly doesn't look violent or angry or really that obnoxious on the tape at one five am, and that tape is literally like five or ten minutes before his friends and everyone left. And by the way, we need to point out, so at that point he's seen outside the bar talking to two ladies and they are eventually identified and interviewed. So it's not as if he went home

with them or he was being harassing to them. He just chatted with them standing outside like there was nothing unto the Yeah, they reported it was a fine interaction. It wasn't, you know, amazing, But it wasn't like awful. It was just like a drunk day, yeah, And it didn't seem like his mood was in a weird spot or anything like that. So, you know, it just seems like five or ten minutes is is pretty quick for it to have been a very secret, weird altercation. You know.

It's one thing if somebody said, oh, yeah, and there was this huge fight in the bar, we don't really know what's going on, but there was some big altercation. They dragged the guy out to one minute escalation followed by body whiskey away. Yeah, that's that's a little more phenomenal. Yeah, it just seems really quick and unlikely. A lot of witnesses there. I think that if there was an altercation, it happened outside after he got out, like you know, in the back, in the back. Yeah, I would guess

that as well. Um. And then the last theory that we have, if you guys are ready you is um that it could have been an accident. He could have drunkenly left via the construction site, as Joe kind of mentioned, that we're somehow unlocked and fallen into a hole or a wall and been accidentally covered up if they pour concrete over the top of them. Yeah, it seems like you would see a body in there. But maybe I'm wrong.

I don't know. It's not as though it was like this giant pit, you know, where he could have been kind of covered with dirt and they were nobody was really looking and it was just like alright back the concrete truck up. I mean, the Christmas is a fairly Yeah, this was a pretty small space. I don't believe that's the way those things work. I don't either. I think they actually look in there to make sure that, you know, crap hasn't fallen in I would think yep, um, but yeah,

yeah in them. Yeah. So I see this a lot on the internet, like a lot, and it just doesn't necessarily compute to me. It would. It would have to be like somebody intentionally put his body in a wall or hole and intentionally covered it up, and then the construction crew came in in the morning and they were like, Bob must have put the drywall up before he left last night. Weird. Okay, well, let's keep going. Well, it definitely couldn't have been in the wall, in the dry wall,

because the smell would have been apparent rather quickly. But but but that's sort of right. But and the other thing is, though, is we don't know, so none of us are still here clear on exactly where this construction is. But if he were to have been in the bottom of a hole, there has to be a pile of dirt that is used to at least partially cover his body up. And the thing to remember a lot of times with holes like that, when they're going to pour concrete in them. Do you know what they do to him,

call the dirt out, They pack up the company. They pack them so that it doesn't settle. So if suddenly you look in there and there's all this nice, loose, soft dirt, you're saying, oh, Billy, damn it, I told you to pack it. You're going to get in there to take care of that, and you're going to find the body, right, you know, scant interest below. So, and that's what I mean is that if if somebody had intentionally hid in his body in the construction site, that's

one thing. But all of these kind of speculations on the Internet of people saying, well he just walked into the construction site and accidentally fell into something, that's just total bunk to me, even drunk. I don't think Brian was a bright guy. I don't think you're that stupid to what walk into a construction site. Yeah, I mean, walk into all construction site and fall into a hole

or something like that. Um, I've I've drunkenly wandered into construction sites and I'm very lucky that I didn't fall into Here's here's the thing is, we did say that Brian was very bright. You're right, No, I have wandered two places, you know, because you're just like when you're drunk, maybe this is a fast way out curious. I mean, I agree, but even so, I think they would have found his body. There's one other like accident theory that is that Brian could have drunkenly fallen into the river

and been whisked. It's not the smiley face, but every once in a while people lump him into the Smiley face murderers. But then there's a there's but there's another theory that it's not related to smiley face, but he still fell fell into the river and was then the washed down river. My understanding is that the river that goes through Columbus is like the closest of approaches where he was is about a mile. He would have been really far away and really lost. Yeah, which is typical

of all of these other smiling things. True. But there was also also somebody posted the thing on redd apparently it's from Columbush said, basically, the river where it flows through town, it's been damned to bring the level up, and it's really kind of more like a reservoir than a flowing river. Slow. Yeah, and they had they occasionally drained it for reasons and so you can see all the craft that's on the bottom, So his boy would

have been fat. Well. They did find about so they did a really extensive search of the river slash reservoir situation, and they did find actually a skeleton at one point a couple of years a year later, and they thought it might be Brian, but it was not. What's that? What country is it that has all the locks and waterways through the city in Europe? Um Amsterdam? Oh, it

might be Amsterdam. One of those. They recently drained a whole bunch of it because they had to do massive repairs, and you got to see fifty years worth of stuff with people. There was bicycles and motorcycles. But then they were finding cars that had been there for forty years but the water was cold enough that they hadn't really rusted away. It was actually amazing interesting the imagery of it.

So I could just imagine what it's like when they're draining this one Ohio and beer bottles U Yeah, the just you know the there's there used to be a boat ramp. It's still there, but there's blocked off now. But down right by the Selwood Bridge. Yeah, there's a boat ramp there and they blocked it off of a concrete barrier. But before they did that, apparently that was the place to go when you put your to push your car into the river. Then, so there were a

lot of cars down there. Yeah, they've they since pulled them out. They put a lot of car but people would go shove their car in there and then report it stolen and collect the insurance when they were tired of their car or whatever you can. You know, yeah, well, hey, that's a good way to get your money out of it. But again, back to Brian, though I am totally sure

he did not fall unto the river. You know that he maybe fell face first, drunkenly into a mud puddle and round and then came along and threw him in a dumpster. Yeah. I find a dumpster theory, even though it's implausible itself, to be more plausible than any of the other falling into the construction site. I think, just overall, the reason that this is such a popular cases because none there's not a single theory out there that really

satisfies me in terms of what I could believe. This is a failing on all of our parts is that we all want the theory that nicely buttons it up and tells us what happened. And I actually think that this story is kind of like the hourglass that you sit on the side, is that it all kind of narrows down. But if we just accepted that he got out of the building without us seeing him on foot on film, then it just it expands right back out and then everything could have happened. This guy, he could

be anywhere in town. And that's where it becomes unsolvable because now the police don't know where to look because you have a city that's square mile upon square mile and thousands upon thousands of people, homes, basements, trash bins, I mean where at that point, and there's no there's no real clues to give any to to really make you want to favor one over the other. Yeah, I

like the idea. He meets a serial killer, the serial killer being a clever, hannibal electric kind of guy, has already spotted the cameras and figure out a way to lure Bryan outside without being seen with him, and then murders him, gets rid of the body. That's yeah, I mean, that's really like it though, right, you know, yeah, yeah, I just I just think I just think none of them are good. Yeah, no, there's no I think no

slam dump theory. Yeah, I think that when his friend Clint finally decides to share what he knows, if he even knows anything, I just don't think that he does. I think he's just trying to protect himself because, like I would too, of opinion, was gonna you could tell him. I think he could see very early on he's gonna ripped, get ripped a shrid. I just said, uh no, I'm giving you all the finger. I didn't do anything wrong because everybody gets mad at him because he wouldn't take

a lie detector. Yeah, by detector tesh are so fallible, Yeah, they're they're worthless, So it doesn't prove squat. Yeah, but I I would like to hear if he's got anything, use will say. I had heard that he threw. His lawyers said he would testify or you know, you know, he would give information police or private investigators or who believe if you got a grant of immunity. Well, I thought he told them everything he knew about that night. So I don't know what else more he's going to

be sharing. Yeah. Yeah, it was cooperative. Yeah, it's tricky. Yeah, it's so Yeah. And and the problem is again you know, as we as we said many times in the past, it's a minefield when you talk to the police wand have incriminating yourself with that meaning to even if you're innocent. Yeah, but enough of that, Okay, forget it. I can't think of a thing. Yeah, I was just gonna say, I think that pretty much sums up the story episode. Yeah. Yeah,

it's a bad guy disappeared and uh yeah, yeah. Probably if you are Clint and you want to talk to us about you know, we won't accuse you. Probably we will grant you immunity from the Thinking Sideways Tribunal. Um So, if you want to talk to us, or if you're not Clint and you just want to talk to us, you can send us an email. That email address is Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. Uh. You probably know where you are getting your podcasts, be that iTunes

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