Thinking Sideways: Death of Huey Long

let's tackle a mystery. Guys, ready, all right? This week we're going to talk about the mysterious death of Huey Long in Loong is pretty famous guy. Probably most of you have heard of him, a certain if you're an older American, you've heard of him. He obviously was noticed a kingfish. He was governor of Louisiana from nineteen twenty eight to nineteen thirty two, and then was elected to the US Senate from Louisiana in nineteen thirty two. He

was assassinated in nineteen thirty five. And don't don't feel bad if you haven't actually heard of him, because I hadn't. You hadn't heard of him? You? Yeah? I had, But that's because was it. John Goodman played a role as him in the movie The Kingfish. I think it was John Goodman. That's the other reason I knew about it. Although you want to know a funny side note, Okay,

so here it is. Anyway, Joe initially was pitching this story to me a couple of weeks ago, and I didn't remember who hughe Long was and I got him completely confused with somebody else in American politics, which would be James Garfield, al who was assassinated, and I was I was sitting there going, dude, I don't know how you're gonna turn the assassin a nation of James Garfield into a podcast that doesn't work. The only thing that I know about Garfield is, you know the disgusting stuff

that happened to him after he was shot. You guys know that, right, No, actually kind of iger to that what happened. So when he was shot, he was shot in the stomach and he couldn't eat, so they had he stayed alive for weeks after the fact. So one of the things they tried to do to keep him alive, this is an actual thing. They gave him what are called nutrient enemas they I think it was peanut butter

they were putting. They were feeding him rectally, which caused such obscene gas that even the doctors couldn't be in the room. But I was. I I just couldn't figure out how you would turn that into a mystery. You know, it's tied to change the ocast anyway. Yeah, because yeah, we kind of we kind of tapped out all the whole unsolved mysteries. This is the last one except for yeah, none, this is the last one. I checked the internet left nothing left. Yeah, sorry, folks, Okay, back to our mystery.

He along. Oh yeah, that's right, We're actually doing a real mystery. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, he he was. He was popular, he belong was popular with Louisiana. But it's also very polarizing. You either loved him or you hated him. His detractors called him, among other things, a dictator, a demagogue, fascist, and a socialist. Demagogue is like one of my favorite words. Yeah, this is a good word. What is specifically, what the definition of demagogue? Because I've seen it used and I

never I've always heard it describe in different ways. Yeah, I guess the best definition is a demagogue is somebody who tells I think insightful lies, you know, inciting lies, like, for example, Al Sharpton. I would I would call Al Sharpton. Sorry for any Al Sharpton fans out there, but I would say he demagogues a lot of issues by by taking taking an issue that's really you know, and and interpreting it in in an unreasonable way. Do you want the dictionary?

Let me have that. Yeah, it's a noun. It's for a political leader who seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than using rational arguments. Okay, that's probably a better definition than mine. He long achieved his goals generally through intimidation and bribery rather than just persuasion. He was basically a machine politician, and he controlled and appoint appointed people to lots and lots of jobs, and so he was able to dole out favors to his

his buddies and his cronies and political allies. And that was pretty common though in that day. Yeah, yeah, very much. So. He was the picture of a corrupt politician. Yeah. And he also tried to make life hell for his opponents. He would he would go out of his way to get people fired and people who weren't actually speaking at against them. They just happen to be members of the family of somebody who across him, and say the family member thing is what I always just shook my head

at that. Yeah, he was. He was very vindictive. Anyway. He uh long actually campaign for Roosevelt in nineteen eight or Exis Meet two I believe it was. But after he was elected to the Senate, he decided to break with the Roosevelt administration and he started thinking about running for the presidency himself. He was a big critic of the Federal Reserve Bank, and he said that his policies

were the real cause of the Great Depression. And in that particular instance he might have actually had a point. I wouldn't agree with Hu Belong on a lot of things, but anyway, to move on. He was in the Senate now in nineteen thirty four, and he introduced his bright idea which called he called share our Wealth. So his plan was a very radical one to cap personal fortunes at fifty million dollars limit annually comes to a million dollars,

and cap inheritance. Inheritance says that five million dollars and then spread all the wealth around. That's your generalmen taken by the government. I've okay, I've read this a number of times and they never quite understood. So if I am making over fifty mill, then anything above that number the government takes, that's you. That's not your income. The fifty million is your personal fortune, what you have in assets, bank account. So you can't be personally worth more than

fifty million dollars. You can't make more than one million dollars a year, and you can't inherit more than five million dollars five million in assets. Yeah, yeah, I mean totally. So, so then what happens What would happen if I made one point one million? What happens to that point one million? Does the government then take that and use it however it deems fit? Is that how this was going to work? Apparently that's how it was going to work. And I

don't know what I guess. I suppose if say, if you have a fortune of a fifty million, and so you make a million bucks that year, I suppose you don't get to keep any of it, because you know you can, Otherwise you'd be tacking it onto your personal fortune, and then you'd have fifty one million. From an economic standpoint, this is a terrible idea, you know, well, I mean it encourages people to spend what they make instead of saving it. Right, it encourages the spreading of wealth, and

it's kind of like the ideal trickle down economics. Right, it's the pinnacle of encouraging people who have to spend back into the economy that maybe fuels other people. I think it's one of those things that in theory it could could or could not be a good idea. In practice, there's no way I was gonna say. In practice, it discourages people from doing things, taking a risk, to do something that can make gods of money, because then they're

going to be over the limit. And why the hell would I want to take that risk and make all that money just to not get just to invest all that time and effort and my capital to then get my capital back but then get no return on it because now I've got too much money. Yeah, and that's that's an economic theory. There's a whole bunch of stuff there, Brian,

Now we're not here to talk about. Yeah. Obviously, his his proposal didn't get very far in the Senate, so he started he started a political organization called the Share Our Wealth Society, which was essentially like a political party, and it had twenty seven thousand clubs quote unquote across the country, and by the time he Long died, the society had seven and a half million members. So yeah, it was you know, obviously a lot of people like that idea. After he went to the Senate, he Long

continued to dominate Louisiana politics. He went back to Baton Rouge quite often and wrote and lobby for bills. He never really left them his position as government, not entirely. You know, when he went he was he would zip over to Washington for a little bit and then come back, and apparently the governor succeeded him with whenever whenever he Long was in town, he Long would just take over his office. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that went over really

well with him. He was a supporter, so I'm sure it was one of those things you had to do for the man who got you the job. But he also just he'd walk and he'd walk all over everybody and just yelling, point and holler and dictate to people what needed to be done when it was not his position anymore. But He's still a lot of people did what he told him to do. He still had lots of influence. Yeah, his consolidation power continued to grow even though he was no longer the governor, and opposition got

more intense and sometimes even violent. There was actually talking about armed rebellion, and yeah, he um. In that summer of nineteen five, he called two more special sessions of the legislature and passed a bunch of bills and got his all his cronies in the legislature to pass up a bunch of bills. They consolidate his control over the

state by creating several new state agencies, wasn't it? What weren't The bills passed kind of like rapid fire, one after another, and there wasn't even they didn't even read the bills voting on it. They just said, okay, next one. Yeah. Yeah, So let's see what new state agencies he created here. A State Bond and Tax Board holding soul authority to

approve approve alone to parish and municipal governments. A new state Printing Board which could withhold quote unquote official printers status from uncooperative newspapers that was aimed to stop people who were bashing along. Yeah, so essentially, yeah, and first amendment, Yes, pretty much a new board of Election Supervisors, which would appoint all poll watchers. Now that's handy to have on elections for hand control over all the all the poll

watchers across the state. And also a state board of censors. He Long controlled all appointments to all these boards, of course he did. Yeah it do you know? You may or may not know was the wording of the new laws specifically and Huey Long or was it and the Senator of the state in Louisiana only they went through the Senate, right, But I'm saying lived the bill that they passed, you know, I did it? Say, I don't think they did, but I think I think it was.

I think everybody just assumed that hue Long was going to going to make the appointments or else he was actually actually the appointments would have been made by the governor, who I'm sure I would do exactly what. Yeah, so a nice guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not going to go there are lots of other stuff that he did. I mean, if you've read up in this guy at all, it's like, yeah, he's kind of a jerk. He was a flaming jerky. So there's a trail of bodies, so

to speak, behind this guy. Yeah, I wouldn't. I would not be surprised to find out there's a trail of real bodies. Actually, one of his, one of his, one of his political opponents, actually did die in a convenient train wreck. It's a car train wreck. But that could have been an accident. It could have been Yeah, it could have been probably not. Yeah, you know, those happen. Yeah. In August of nineteen thirty five, Long finally announced that he was going to run for president the following year.

But a month later, September eight, nineteen thirty five, he was at the state capitol ramming through a new law, which is called House Bill number one, which was a redistric between plan. One of his opponents was a judge named Henry Povey who served in the sixteenth District judge ship, and he'd been there since nineteen ten. Is an elected Yeah,

he had been there. Yeah. Uh So the House Bill number one was specifically meant to change the boundaries of his district to include more Long supporters so that he would be out of a job come next election. That passed about nine fifteen the night of September eight. It was a long session. Um oh yeah, I forgot one

other thing. Oh yeah. Apparently Long also told Pobby that he was going to tell everybody in the world that Pobby's family was tainted with quote coffee blood, unquote coffee blood, meaning they had there was a there was a black person somewhere in the family here. Okay, I was going to say this, this is a Rachel slur, I'm assuming for the time. Yeah, yeah, and it's like yeah, and this is Louisiana and the so obviously that it would

be a bigger deal kind of accusation. No, I can see in context how offensive that would be for an upstanding for the time, the upstanding white citizen to be accused of that, just knowing how people were at that time, Yeah, it was. It was a serious thing then, Yeah, obviously, but yeah, and some some certain communities that still isab which is still dumb. But okay, now back to back to the session. Actually, let's talk about let's talk about the assassin whose name was Dr Carl Weiss. He was

twenty nine years old. He was Judge Bobby's son in law and he was at the capital that day, trying to get to speak to Long, but every time he would approach him to get a rude brush off from Long and his bodyguards. How many were there, by the way the bodyguard I was there were able to find out exactly how many I got. I got a feeling there were at least four, if not like six or eight. I mean there were a bunch of they were all

state troopers. Well, and I remember reading I can't remember what it was about something a year or two prior that had caused him to then only travel with bodyguards. But I had never seen how many there were. Yeah, I'm not sure either. I'm sure there were. I know there were at least four. I don't know. That's that's better than I don't. So I suspect there could have been a whole bunch of them, because he'll find out

this in a second. Um, yeah he was. He kept trying to approach Long, and he get rudely brushed off and Carl Wise A Wise and PM. Just after House bield number one had passed, Long exited the Legislative chamber was in the corridor outside, and he was approached by Wise the third time. Although some some accounts of this say that Wiss was actually hiding behind a column in the in the in the corridor, and as as Long

walked by, he popped out. He owned the thirty two caliber automatic that he usually kept in his car, but apparently added on him. When he tried to touch a Long, he got another insulting brush off, at which point he pulled up thirty two and shot Long from about four feet away, although there's evidence that if he didn't cheat, did you shoot Long? And he actually shot him from like right up close and personal, actually put the gun to his body and because apparently there were there were

powder burns his jacket. Yeah, we've talked about some of that before. You do have to be exceedingly closed for the powder burns to transfer. Yeah, definitely, certainly closer than four ft. Yeah. Yeah. Again, it's like there's a lot of different witnesses and a lot of different accounts of this. The bodyguards were turned fire and they shot Wis sixty

two times, which is reasonable. Yeah, he was clearly dangerous. Yeah, what was it was like thirty some bullets in the in the torso, five or ten in the head and the rest in the legs. I mean it's just like literally riddled with bullets. Yeah, I was a human callandar at that point. Oh yeah, I think about it is is that when when when we were the cops at least, this is the way it seems to happen these days in this town. Whenever they shoot somebody a bunch of times,

usually about half the bullets miss, if not more. There was a lot of lead fline around that shots. Yeah, yeah, that or they just shot like hundred and twenty times. Well they were automatics, yeah, yeah, maybe they had a couple of Tommy guns. I don't know, it could have been that. I don't Yeah, I can't say I remember seeing something about Tommy guns. But it seems that seems really excessive for a bodyguard for a U. S. Senator to be packing around. I mean that's just that's a

lot firepower. Yeah that certainly, yes, Uh, but I have no idea. Yeah, I think that. I think really probably you know, they probably shot him about a dozen times and then just stood over his body and shot him a bunch more times. Yeah, so basically he died. So were they not taking care? They were busy shooting? What was what was Long doing? Did Long die? Immediately he felt round. No, no, no, yeah he did. He wasn't

dead at that point. He staggered down the corridor and went down four flights of stairs where he met somebody and that the name of this person is unknown, but that's that's. This person drove him to the our lady of the Lake Sanitarium, which is about a quarter mile away. That person is always referred to as an associate. Yeah, I when I when I read your stuff and I'd read it and I realized I hadn't found it. I kept trying to find that. It's always an associate. Yeah,

So don't ask me. Did she have a sword for King Arthur? Seah? Yeah, sorry, yeah, yeah, I can't hear that without thinking about yeah, yeah, sorry, where are we at here? Oh? Yeah, yeah, lady. So he was operated on and patched up, but he died anyway about thirty hours later. So he belong is dead assassinated? But was he actually assassinated? Was he? Yeah? That's the mystery. Oh yeah. The other mystery is what kind of medical treatment did he get? Was it adequate? Yeah? It was it adequate?

Seems like maybe not. I don't know that that that that question is right to ask based on what I've read, but I know we're going to get into it. Yeah, that's hard to I mean, a bullet to the gut, it just depends on what it hits and all that stuff. Back to Hue, he was even though he was popular with some people, he said, he alienated a lot of other people, and even in the medical community he had alienated people, um and so he didn't trust any old

doctor to operate on him or treat him. But there was a doctor who happened to be in the hospital at the time, who was a long appointee and then therefore considered trustworthy, just happened to be there. Yeah. His name was Art was Arthur of Adrien U and he was acceptable, even though they were probably far better surgeons out there. You know, the other surgeons can maybe wanted to kill Long. So but what I've been shot, I usually don't squabble about who my doctor is. Yeah, yeah,

Artur Adrien. Doctor Adrine examined Hue Long and decided that the wound was a through and through wound, one in the front, back and out to back. Yeah, and he told Long the surgery was needed, and Long agreed to that, but he requested a couple of well known surgeons from New Orleans who were summoned as as his condition was deteriorating so much it was decided that surgery couldn't wait. I also remember one of those doctors got weirdly delayed

by a car accident. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, one of him couldn't make it because well he was a fender bender. Yeah, which is a conspiracy. I mean no, it's not. Sorry, Yeah, the politics is you know, I think everything in Louisiana at this time, and maybe it's still this way today, I don't know. Was everything seemed to be politicized. So anyway, Arthur, doctor of a drine, became the chief surgeon, and he was assisted by two

other surgeons and as caesiologist was recruited. His name was Henry McCowen, but he was anti Long, and he had reportedly said just a couple of days before that if he ever did any Segon and Huey Long, he would never wake up. So he said he would do it, but he stipulated that another doctor had to be right at the side watching his every move. Spart Man. Yeah, smart move. Oh and so time time for surgery. But what didn't they do before surgery? They didn't take any

X rays? Do you know why why? No, I'm asking. I've never found out why. I don't know why. I mean, I really can't understand. It seemed to me you'd want to take an X ray or two and find out where the bullet is if there's And maybe that's why they didn't do it. Is maybe they felt like the doctor concluded it was through and through wounds, so if he had already decided that the bullet was not in the body, maybe they didn't need to take the time to do X rays and was kind of rushing into

the surgery. Six hours between the time that he arrived and the time he went into surgery. Correct, No, it wasn't that long, was it? Was it? Not that I thought it was. Was it three? Or how long was it? Then? I thought it was like six hours between when he arrived and when the scalpel touched because he was waiting for those other doctors. No, actually it was almost two hours. Okay, well started the surgery. Regardless, two hours seemed like more than enough time to wheelem into the X ray bay

and at least take a shot. I don't know if if he thought it was through and through. If there's a hole in the front and a hole in the back, where else did the bullet going to be? Why even bother taking an X ray? Those things are expensive, but but the thing is that X rays show things, not just metal, but you do see I mean, granted the technology wasn't that great at the time, but it would give you an idea of if there's pooling of blood

in areas of the body. Because he's gonna have to be in a prone position to take this, not as if he can stand up, probably show you, like you know, some ribs got chipped or broken exactly. He's gonna have been laid out for a while. So I just I feel like there would have been some information to be gained from doing the X ray. There were some there were some strange decisions made regarding this whole surgery. It was. It was a really, really peculiar thing. Anyway, I'll get

into that. A guy named ed Read wrote a book about this whole thing, about about the death of Belong. It was called Requiem for a Kingfish, and he said necessarily was quote one of the most bizarre and unreal operating room settings that one could possibly imagine spectators, bodyguards and medical professionals elbowed each other for space in the operating room. Unquote, Well, there goes all the sterilists practices. Some of them some of them were surgical gowns, but

most were in the street clothes. And yeah, just standing right there in the operating room. It's no wonder he died this. He did get an infection later. Yeah, but you know this makes me think of is whenever it's a big political figure, this kind of garbage happens. I swear it was something like a similar situation when there was the attempted assassination of Ono Reagan that a bunch of people were in the room was being treated. JFK was the other one. There was a bunch of secret

service in the room. What what where does? Why is it when you're super super important do we throw out all of the safety rules. Well, I wonder if the reason that you have a body guarden there is to make sure that you know that your person is going to wake up from anesthesia, right, I mean somebody didn't snuff him. Yeah, the opportunity. Yeah, that's the thing is if you're if you're the surgeon or surgeons. In this case, you probably want to have at least one or two

of Wong's cronies in there to witness it and make sure. Yeah, that sounded like a house party, Yeah, I know. Yeah, and it was probably a little over Yeah, I don't. I don't think any of these people, if they were in street clothes, I'm sure they didn't like, you know, scrub or sanitize themselves in so Dr Madrine was assisted by two other surgeons, one of whom was named Cook. I can't remember his first name. They opened longing up, they found it appeared that he hadn't been damaged too badly.

His colon was perforated, so they repaired that and then they stitched him up and apparently no bullet was found. But accounts differ on this, yeah quite a bit. Yeah, yeah, so I'll talk about that in a little bit. Uh. And Arthur Adrien reportedly said that it was just a perforation of the intest But then later on another doctor arrived at the hospital and he told that doctor that the right kidney was damaged and bleeding, and he was asked if he'd seen the kidney in Madrid, said that

he had only felt it that. Really it doesn't make a lot of sense. You know, if you've determined the k the kid is damaged, but you don't bother doing any repairs before you close them up. Look at it. Yeah, I've got the wrinkled eyebrow thing going like, well, yeah, I know. Well I don't get it either. But like I said, this is a strange, strange medical situation. And I read a really long, very scholarly article on this. I don't know if you guys read that through that thing.

That's quite good. Actually, yeah, it's yeah. And he uh, he says that it's his apparent that medical practice was tainted by politics in this case anything, Yeah, he belongs, condition deteriorated, It was apparent he was losing blood, so that man, he was bleeding internally. And six hours after surgery, a blood count was done. It showed the signs that he was had an action surprising, Yeah, big surprise. Huh.

Hopefully that the surgeons scrubbed in at last before you know, please at least one person in this Yeah, but the but the doctors felt that Long was too weak to withstand another surgery, so they just gave him drugs and blood transfusion and eventually, thirty hours after he was shot, he died. Yeah, that's not going to keep I mean,

not for too long unless you can stop the bleeding. Yeah, I understand him at a doctor, and I understand that when someone is desperately, desperately ill, the trauma of cutting them back open and rooting around in their insides is going to do do more harm than good. Yes, the shock, it's a very huge shock to your system. But if if this guy has already got an incision where they've gone in once, that's not that's not really a new

trauma to cut the stitches. And if all you're going in to do is say, I know the kidney's got a perforation, let's stitch it up real quick, I don't see how. Then again, practice is the time or not what they are now. It used to be shoved your hands in there and did everything and juggle all the guts around, whereas now they've got better tools so they're not doing all of that. But it just amazes me. It's like, yeah, you've had three transfusions today and we're

just not going to do anything. Well, I don't think, I mean, I do think that an incision like that begins to heal much more quickly than I think you might think it does. It's not. I don't think it is a matter of just like stitches and the note, it's just an opening that's like still there. I think that you know, it's starting to scap hopefully ideally right, it's starting to scab over, its starting to heal itself.

Damage that. I'm sorry but to redamage that it's probably going to do like way more shocked than it would have been to even kind of open he's gonna have again. Yeah, well, we have any surgeons out there, why don't you guys like and let us know. He's probably some guy doing open heart surgery. Right now, let's listening to our podcast yelling no, what you're doing? Never saw? Okay, where were

we off topic? Yeah, amazing, I think we're at theories. No, not quite the one one last interesting little thing here. No autopsy was done. Yeah, I mean seriously, no autopsy was done. That would have been actually really helpful, super helpful. Yeah, but apparently he belongs wife didn't want an autopsy done, so they didn't do it. So I guess unless we go to Louisiana and dig up his body and check for bullets in it. Well, even then I think it's

probably it's probably pretty far calling, right, Yeah. Actually Dr Karl Weiss's body was exhumed. Why, Yeah, interesting, Well, apparently

apparently they were counting the bullets. Now, they didn't need to catch the bullets so much that I think they wanted they wanted to do like blood and tissue samples or whatever whatever they could and find out if there was any evidence of anything in his brain that could have caused him to go around the bend and shoot, because he really wasn't a violent He wasn't a violent person, and even though he had somewhat of a motive, it

wasn't a strong motive really, not murder, not for murdering. Yeah, and and so that that well was it was it drugs, There was it some sort of mental condition or a brain tumor or what what costs? And so they so they dug his body up, and even even though I found a couple of articles on them exuming the body, I was not able to ever find anything about what results that came up with anything That usually means there was no results of any note that most likely is

what it means. Yeah. So but Yeah, he has not been dug up as far as I know. He's he's bared at state capital in Louisiana. By the way, Okay, he's not carylogenically frozen. And let's jump in your aple of shovels. We'll find out actually sledgehammers. I think he's in like a like a marble or grandit crip. I just want I just bought a new four pound hammer perfectly. Yeah, I guess it's kind of moving up now. Yeah. I

don't break in graves too often, alright. Theories number one there, he was assassinated by Karl Wisse, who had he did have a good documented motive to not like him because he was gonna put his father in law out of a job and because he was going to slanders the family. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, well that's that's that's that that is

an issue because you know, Potty was judge. Potty was sixty years old at the time of He Belongs murder, and he was about to actually turn sixty one, So if it would put him out of a job, it wouldn't be for that long before his retirement anyway. Aren't judges like also paid forever? I don't know if you are they like Congress, and I don't know if at that time. Yeah, I don't believe in that municipality that kind of judge would be. I know that in higher

courts they are. That's it. Those are usually really high kind of federal level. Course. Yeah, of course this wasn't gonna necessarily put him put him into poverty, because he's still Guy's still a lawyer, he can still practice law. So I mean that that wasn't the end of the world necessarily for Poppy. That's the official that's the official explanation,

is that as that Weiss did it. Actually I read the Louisiana State Police reopened the case and because some interesting evidence was found, and so they reopened it and just went over all the all the evidence again and concluded it when Karl Weiss was the shooter. So that's

what the official version is. I know that. I know that when you take tours through that courthouse where all of this went down, one of the things the tour guides always do is they always point to a pock bark in the column and say that's where the bullet that killed Hughie Long hit the column. And then somebody actually investigated it. It's not actually a fracture. It's just a dark spot in the marbles, just an imperfection in

the marble. Yeah, you would think there'd be some bullet holes unless, unless, of course, the that the State Troopers bodyguards were really really accurate and then they and they didn't miss a single shot. But you would think there'd be a lot of pock marks in the walls. Yeah, okay, so much for that theory. Uh theory number two, Oh boy, Yeah, this is a fun one. Karl Weiss was an assassin for the International zion Zionist Conspiracy FDR. Actually Franklin Roosevelt

and or his cabinet was involved. Also, I got this from the guys over at jew Watch, which is a website that I stumbled across while researching this story. This is this is a fantastic Please note sarcasm. Yeah, yeah, it is. It really is just a bunch of paranoid you know, anti Semitic ravings and back to back to these guys said putting a jew Watch quote. Long was assassinated because he was one of the most charismatic leaders of the nineteen thirties and he was going to run

for president. He could easily have defeated Roosevelt and would have put international jewry back two hundred years. That's and that's again, that's what that's what these guys are saying. I don't know how. I mean, I guess because Huey Long was going to attack capital, that's what he was doing. And he was going to spread the money around, yeah,

out decentralize it. Yeah yeah. And and so since that since, of course, according to people like this, I'm not saying this, of course, but according to people the people that you watch, since the Jews have all the money, then obviously they don't want to have it taken from them. Many terrible, terrible things. And Okay, I'm gonna hold my tongue and just say, yeah, yeah, I just I'm just throwing this one in for fun, just because and just what sore

listeners know. I don't actually regularly patronize this website on their forums now. But also they claimed that Dr Arthur Vidrine you remember him, the guy who operated on Belong Yeah, yeah, they claimed he was also Jewish and that he deliberately botched the operation. So this is a pretty a pretty amazingly well run operation that apparently these these Zionist conspirators

and put together. Yeah, I know, anathing It's like, you know, I mean, if you want to talk to it's it's interesting, you know, these guys that run websites like this and say stuff like this. They apparently don't like Jews because they think they're an inferior race apparently, and yet at the same time, it's like, wow, those Jews. Is there anything they can't do? Yeah, there there is a bit of a juxtaposition. Yeah, a little bit. Okay, before we

move off in that theory. From that theory, I just want to reiterate that, No, I don't think that the Zionists the Jews were behind the murder off he be Long. Do you guys disagree with me? Not at all. I'm in complete agreement that I'm shocked this has even even made the show, to be honest, that's how silly I think this is. Well, you know, I like, yeah, it is. It is absurd. But I I I appreciate Joe following our our guideline of we will talk about any theory,

no matter how ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, it's what's so, what's next? Oh next theory? Uh? He be Long was killed by his bodyguards. I'll get on board with this one right off the bat. Yeah, after all, there were a lot of bullets flying around as some versions of this story say that Weiss did not even have his gun on him and he just punched long in the face. Oh yeah, apparently he belonged to have a split lip when he

showed up at the hospital. Yeah. Uh. And also you know that if he had a bullet bullet wound in the front and the back he was shot by at thirty two a c P. That's a pretty anemic round. I mean, maybe it could have made it all the way through and out the back side. What what is it? I don't know my guns set? Well. Can you give another gun that that caliber would be equivalent to? I mean's that like a nine millimeter slightly different, much much smaller than a nine. It's bigger than a twenty two,

bigger lightly so it's slightly bigger than a two. Yeah, just just simply put yeah, yeah, that's what it is. It's it's it's you know, it's it's a deadly round. I mean everything, but it's not. I mean, I've shot hay Bales with a twenty two that have popped out the other side though, Yeah, hay bales, hey bale's yeah, I mean, it's not a human body. I'm sorry, what was the last time you dealt with a hay bale? Those things are packed super super tight. A machine packs

a hay bale. That's dense material. I just shot an arrow through a hay bale this weekend. So sorry, I'm sorry. I'm just saying. I'm just saying, like, you know, what is it you guys hate hay bales? Yeah? Sorry, Bill hate over here? No, I mean I think that the point is is that a thirty two is not it's it's not a huge counts not likely to go all the way through a human body, particularly from four feet away, right, Yeah, maybe blank doesn't lose that in the four ft between

the muzzle and the body. It's not going to lose that much velocity. It's really hardly anything, and so I'm kind of doubtful that it could have actually overpenetrated. Overpenetrated means go through and through, right, Yeah, that's what it means over and that's what the That's what I mean. How how frequently do you know, handgun caliber kind of bullets go through a body. It's not it's not as super common occurrence as it caliber. Yeah, yes, sorry, you know,

nine millimeters even, yeah, you know, nine millimeters even. I don't think go all the way through that often. Yeah, yeah, So, I mean, obviously back in these days, this was before the invention of hollow points, and so there would have been a full jacketed bullet would have traveled further, but I still doubt that it would have gotten gone all the way through. Maybe it did, but as no bullet was found in the operation, over penetration is the most

likely possibility. Except one of the assisting surgeons did say that a small caliber bullet was removed during surgery. Do you do you want talked about that now a little bit? Well? And then and then somebody else said that an object was found, but it was actually fecal matter. I heard that the Yeah, And so there's a lot of different there's a lot of different versions of this. Another the same doctor supposedly removed another bullet from Long's body at

the funeral home after he died. His body was taking to a funeral home and apparently he took a bullet out. Then, wasn't there's something about this guy? He had a safe deposit box and his family owned it and said that the bullet was in there, and the investigators somehow got into it and discovered it wasn't even from a thirty eight. Does this sound familiar to you? Well? Now? Was or is that somewhere later on? Yeah? I think what you're thinking about is there was the the Louisians and the

Louisiana State Bureau of Criminal Investigation. The head of it at this time was a guy named General L. F. Gare and he apparently had a bunch of this evidence, including the gun and the bullet and and a bullet and and six cartridges in his possession, along with some files and photos and other stuff. His daughter eventually inherited or something and wound up in a safety pozza box

and eventually want it turned up. There was a big custody battle between Karl Weiss's son and her over who got to keep them in the pistol and which Carl Weiss want Carl Weiss Jr. One so he got the gun. But anyway, they but of course they analyzed the gun and the bullet. There was a single fired slug found with it alone with the six on fired cartridges, and they tested the gun and then and then and then the slug and they didn't match. So so who knows

where that where that fired bullet came from. It's it's a puzzle, yeah yeah. Arthur Vidrine, surgeon, later said that Long actually had two bullets in them in him, one of which was the thirty eight, which is strange because he didn't say anything about finding a bullet at the time. So there's a disagreement on this. Even if he found a single bullet, obviously it eliminates over penetration, so he would have had to have been shot twice. Yeah, him, right.

Isn't it possible, though, if let's run on the theory that it's point blank, that Wise could have pulled the trigger. If it's an automatic, it could have gotten two shots off. If it's a point blank it's essentially going to be one entry wound. If they're in rapid succession, one over penetrates or goes through and the other one bounces around and lodges somewhere. I mean, isn't that a possible scenario? They're saying two shots but one bullet hole, one entry wound,

one entry wound, because that seems unlikely. But I guess it's I mean, theoretically, if you walk up to a guy and you jam it into his his gut and you pull the trigger and it automatically fires two rounds in a row, they're gonna be almost identical locations for entry. Perfect theory. It is not. I get that, but I know people are gonna say, well, but it could have all come through one location. I guess technically, I don't know. If I don't think an automatic handgun is the same.

I mean, I don't think you think of it as a It's not just gonna like fire multiple right, it's not. But if you pull it fast enough, they damn near to go off at the same time, if you can get a quick squeeze onf that's true. Yeah, but he's supposedly according to a one biography of hube Along, which was pretty exhaustibly research, apparently he did get off two shots, this guy claims, but one of the one of the bullets hit one of hue Lung's bodyguard bodyguards in the wristwatch.

Apparently the wristwatch stopped the bullet, or at least slowed it down. Yeah, and so since they found a pistol magazine that went with the gun with six cartridges in it and again only holds seven in the magazine. Assume he had he didn't have one chambered as he had. If he had one chamber, then he would then he

got off. Yeah, he got off two rounds, one of which hit the guy in the wrist, the other one which hit hit Huey Huey long m. Of course, I'm not even convinced that the gun had eight rounds in it and all, with all the bullets flying, is it's it's entirely possible that the guy got hit in the wrist by somebody else's bullet. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I would not be at all surprised by that. So but at the most, he got off two rounds, not a not a lot really should have Well anyway, I'll talk about

that later. Another possibility is that Carl Carl Weiss did shoot him, but just once and then the other bullet hole in the back was courtesy of one of the security guards. A lot of guards, so they weren't entirely accurate like we've been presuming they were. So there were there were two entry wounds and two bullets in him which could have been causing some internal bleeding that they didn't find necessarily after the first exploratory surgery. Yeah, yeah,

two entry wounds. You presume one of them has got of the exit wounds, so you track between them to try to find the bullet. That would make sense. Apparently there actually is evidence that Wise didn't have the gun on him. Uh. I got named Donald Pobby was the nephew of Judge Pobby, which would make him I guess

Karl Weiss's cousin or something. Yeah, he wrote a book about this, laying had his theory that the bodyguards did it, and he said the gun was taken from Weiss's car put at the murder scene after the shooting by the state troopers and he he interviewed at what Tommy had Wise, who was Karl Weiss's brother, who had gone down to the legislature when you heard about the bruhaha going down there and going on down there, and he saw Karl

Weiss's car park there. It was locked, and he looked in the window and he saw that the gun was in the love box. Apparently it was didn't have the door shut or something, and that maybe glove boxes in those days didn't have little doors. On him, some of them didn't. Yeah, apparently, But apparently he was in the habit of keeping it in a sock in his glove box of his car. That's not uncommon. No, no, he doesn't do that. Well, No, keeping a gun in the

sock is something that could do to keep him oiled. Yeah, absolutely, keep from getting all scratched up. But apparently he went back later to the to the car and the car had been moved and apparently been broken into ranstaft and the gun was missing. That could have been random, but it could have been random too. But apparently all of the theories are built on interviews and affidavits he got from people who were either at the capitol or in

the hospital that night. So there was a nurse who was in the operating room when Long was brought in, and she said that the senator had a lacerated lip, and she said that the doctor asked, what is that on your lip? And Long answer, Oh, that's where he hit me, which sort of buttresses the theory that Karl Weisse hit him and didn't shoot him. Do we know wise was I'm presuming right handed? I don't know, And well,

Long was shot in the left side. He was shot in the right side, the right side, Yeah, which doesn't necessarily make well, yeah, I know that kind of makes sense when you think about from left to right. You know, it's almost like shaking hands. You would hit somebody on that Side's okay, I wonder do we on what side of the face the this the abrasion was on his lip or the Okay, there was not abrasition. It was like it was it was split and right the split lip. I mean, was it on his left or is right?

Because what I'm trying to figure out is was it a matter of well, again I'm this is conjecture, but I'm just trying to figure it out. Is did Wise walk up and take a swing at him and sock him in the lip and then pull out a gun to add insult to injury and shoot him in the gun? Or okay, well if he was right handed and then he hits him in the face and it ends up on the left hand left half to his face, you know either where I'm going here, Like I'm trying to

corroborate this in human factors, Yeah, I don't. I don't think he would have had time. I mean, his body bodyguards you right there, He wouldn't have had time to punch him in the face and then pull a gun. I agree with that. You're talking about punching him and then while holding again on the other hand. Yes, oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, so you've got you've got the gun in one hand, you sock him and

shoot m Yeah, that's that's that's possible. But I know it's also possible that he just biffed him in the face and the bodyguards were angry and one of him shot him. The guys that started blazing away too. Yeah, and you know, shoot sixty one times ask questions later. Yeah, I mean, and I know it's it's unheard of for cops to shoot into some people multiple times and then live about it later. Yeah. I think I think the uh story, anecdotal evidence would suggest that he would have

just hit him in the face. Really, I mean more than you know, that's a that's a punishment more befitting the crime. I think a punch to face, not two shots to the gut, yeah, not one or two shots the guy. Yeah. So what other evidences is this this poppy guy put out here? Uh? He has an affidavit from a guy named Francis Grobenberg or Grepenberg, who was superintended to stay police in nineteen fifties in Louisiana. He

told of a story when he was with four state troopers. Um, he said, and he actually wrote about this in his memoir because he wrote a book. He served and served in World War two, and and you know, and and then he spent a bunch of time battling crime syndicates in Louisiana. So he wrote a memoir about this. And so he repeated that. And there also he said that these troopers have been we're talking about how Wise is gonna have been taken from his car after the shooting.

And then he said, and uh, this is a quote from his book. And then I made a mistake, Ravenburg said. I said, it appears to me that all the actions following the shooting were conspiracy to cover up the accidental death those Senator Long and the killing of Dr Wise. Continuous quote. After I made that unfortunate statements, the bodyguards

became very quiet. Um. So interesting story of true. Well, although some some people that put out the theory that those guys were just repeating a story that have been circulated by anti Long politicians that his bodyguards have killed him and gotten the book, so it's it's it's kind

of up in the air, so to speak. Yeah. Uh. There was also one of the bodyguards was named Delmas Sharp and his son, Delmas Sharp Jr. Uh said his dad once talked about Long's death prior to a meeting that to the two of them had with another bodyguard. His name was Joe Messina, and after the meeting his dad his dad said to him, well, that's Joe Messina, the killer. Donald Povey look and the author of this book said he also spoke to members of the Murphy

Roden family. Murphy Roden was one of the bodyguards also, Yeah, a lot of bodyguards. Yeah, and uh, of course he's long since passed on, but they said that they they understand. Their understanding is that Roden accidentally shot Long. And he also got some testimony from the son of a reporter who was an eyewitness to the shooting apparently said the same thing. So it looks like maybe a cover up. I don't know. So my verdict on this is that

Donald Pobby is probably right. At the time, as I've already said this, Judge Pobby was really kind of nearing retirement age anyway, Um, he could wasn't true a career killer at that. I just want to talk nostalgically for a second about the days at which sixty one was retirement age. Oh yeah, I don't intend to ever retire because there's not going to be no retirements. No, there ain't. But yeah, I mean, yeah, sixty one, I don't know what's retirement age it was, yeah, yeah, but yeah, by

the time you retire, it's going to be about eighty probably. Yeah. Generally in those in those in those days, you didn't necessarily retire. You just worked till you died, which was sixty which is well, the people who lived at those old ages were the ones who worked until they died. Yeah. Yeah, so. But the other the other reason I doubt this is that obviously it would be suicidal to pull a gun and shoot Huey Long when he surrounded by a bunch of guys that are armed to the teeth. Yeahs does

seem a bit off. Yeah. He had a wife and he had a very young infant son, you know, so obviously had plenty to live for. It doesn't really make sense when you think about, of course, again, if there was a brain tumor or something like that evolved maybe I guess something that altered his rational thinking. Yeah, but they when they dug his body up, they didn't find any evidence that. Of course, after all these years, who knows how much it be left to look at um.

But the other thing I find kind of that kind of kills it for me for him being a shooter, is that he was shooting a semi automatic gun. And if he had to drop on long and if you really intended to kill him, why did he fire once and possibly twice when he could have emptied the gun into him in about about a second. And also why did he aim in his gut? Yeah? But his head or yes, I think, yeah, I think that he. Uh. People overestimate the killing power of guns all the time,

but four feet isn't that far away. I mean, I mean, it's a gun. You know you're aiming in the general direction. It's going to hit in the general direction. Yes, okay, fine, you're not aiming for the head, but at least like the upper chest area, right, not the like I'm going to shoot you in the stomach that'll kill you. You tend to misjudge things like that. I mean, a handgun is very very subjective to angle that it's been the

angle that it's being held at. But have you ever goofing around, grabbed water pistol and scored at somebody and you're like, I'm gonna shoot him in the face and then you shoot him in the knee. I'm a good shot. Well this is not take your time draw and hold. It's just like pull it up and start squeezing the trigger. People do this. I mean, there's all kinds of videos of people like I'm gonna totally just draw really fast and I'm gonna shoot that target. Instead they shoot the

ground two feet in front of him. But yeah, no, I understand that that's fair. But I think Joe's point is also fair, Like why wouldn't you just Joe said that, right, why wouldn't you empty? Yeah? Yeah, no, no, I there's totally makes sense. There is, I mean there is. There was some note in the in the files of the Louisiana State Police that one of the bodyguards knocked the gun down. It was originally pointed towards Long's chest and he knocked it down and so he shot him in

the gut instead. Um, but I still, you know, I don't. I still don't see why he didn't shoot him a couple more times, you know, or if a bodyguard was that close, why how sixty two bullets went into him? Well, one of them went into the bodyguard who was right there, into his watch. Yeah, could be that's where the watch shot. Incredible and gender yeah, they you know, apparently hint this. I think the bodyguard was Murphy Road. And if I'm not,

if I'm not, I'm not even correct. He managed to wrestle wrestle him away from Long and shove him up against the wall. And I guess at that point he backed away from m enough so everybody else could open fire on him. And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they aired him out pretty good. And my only other theory would be that maybe it was an assassination after all, and and one or two of he was bodyguards shot him.

I Well, when I did the the reading into the medical research that's been done on on this case, the one thing that I've found that was really intriguing is in your gut. You know, your your gut has cavities inside of it. It's not as if all of your organs and everything are pushed into one giant, solid mass

there peanuts and yeah, the styrofoam packing peanut. Yeah no, but there's there's voids where there is not an organ, and those voids, based on how you know where you are in the lower regions of the abdomen, there can be folds in it. One of the things that I found is I cannot I wish I could, but I cannot remember the name of the interior lining of the gut. Not your stomach or your intestine, but just your interior abdomen wall, the lining of that the parrot and thank you,

that's the word I knew. It started with a p Okay. Well, it's possible that that can have folds on itself. And some of this research said that when Long was shot, he was actually shot through an area that had a fold. And here's the easy way to think about it. Take a piece of paper and fold it in half and poke a hole in it. Unfolded, and you've got an entry and an exit wound. Take a new piece of paper, fold it in half and then folded on in half again on itself, and then poke a hole through it

and unfolded, and now you've got four holes. So the doctors may have seen what they considered the entry and the exit wound, so they dealt with those, But these other two holes are not in necessarily gonna be where they're looking, and so those are perforations, which would then cause blood loss, which would balls internal bleeding. Yeah, so that's completely plausible because I mean it's not a straight line inside yet, it's not a solid surface. Obviously they're

either they're they missed something something that was bleeding. They missed it big, or maybe they're repaired to the intestine. It's just just didn't quite hold. I don't know. And also that's that's completely a normal to stitch up intestines, and intestines are like tissue paper. Yeah, they're not strong for all the crap that they hold pun intended, they're not all that strong. Yeah. That probably can't use suture. You're probably gotta use duct tape on them, I think, yeah, yeah,

I think they do. Actually, yeah. Yeah. The the other thing about about the surgery, I forgot to mention this at the time, but apparently, you know, as as always when you get shot in the colon, a certain amount of fecal matter gets you know, spread around the inside. Yet, right, and apparently there's not much of that's that they actually irrigated and then which would have caused affection, easily causes an affection. Yeah, so yeah, it's medical care is probably

not the most competent. But yeah, but also I don't I don't know that White shot him. Yeah, I was gonna say the medical care may not have been perfect, but if you have twenty crazy haired bodyguards and he was breathing down your neck, what you do? Yeah, when was the last time you had somebody sitting at your desk while you were working and you kept screwing up

because somebody was watching you. I mean, think about that when you now have a scalpel in suitures and somebody's life is in your hands, and you're not a very good doctor to begin with. Yeah, Dr Vdrine was like, I'm not going to call him incompetent, but I don't think he was really qualified for this kind of surgery. No, he I don't think he'd ever done this kind of surgery being I don't think he had any gunshot. I

don't think he ever did. Again, Yeah, with the reason, I agree, So so, yeah, just unfortunate for old Hughie. But you know, I think he was and I really, it is possible that maybe some anti Long guys had gotten a mole into his his balance of bodyguards, and the guy was just waiting for the opportunity when, you know, some some big hassle came up, something came up, were gave an opportunity to go and shoot Hue a few times. Maybe that's what happened. Now Joe is making filler. Yeah,

pretty much. Yeah, I think we're done here. I think might be kind of done. You guys want to take a vote. What do you think I think Hue Long died? Yeah? Do you think he died of an accidental shooting or do you think he was assassinated by Karl Weiss? Both? Really, I don't know what that beats. I think it was an accidental shooting by his bodyguard. It was I think his bodyguard did it, not not waste, Yeah, that's kind

of what I think. I don't know if it was or not, but the split lip kind of indicates it. Weiss sucked him in the mouth, yeah, for being a jerk to him. Yeah. Yeah, and then the guards went nuts and shot him, you know. And so that's kind of what I'm thinking. Too, too bad for Wise and yeah, and his wife and his kid, and his and his family, his family than anybody. Yeah. Yeah, terrible thing. And obviously obviously his son Karl Weiss and other other family members

and relatives are still trying to clear his name. It's hard to say it that. I think more people are convinced that Weiss was innocent than not personally, but the official line is that Weis did it. So yeah, that's that's really hard to change. It is really hard to change without without the smoking bullet, you're you're smoking gun? Yeah, I think so too, But I after all the reading I've done on this, I'm pretty certain that Weiss did not shoot. Yeah, he'd be long anyway. That's about it. Um,

do you guys have any more thoughts on this? So and another successfully solved mystery? Yeah, yeah, yeah, hey yeah. So you probably want to know more about us, so you can check us out at our website Thinking Sideways podcast dot com, where you can leave comments check links. You can also listen to episod it's from there if you're probably more likely getting us from iTunes, So if you are and d doing that, if you haven't done this already, please subscribe and give us a review. Preferably

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these people do, how into it they are. Yeah, I know, And pretty soon they're gonna be having, like a few more years ago, all these people are gonna get together and they're gonna start having conventions and stuff'll be like comic Con. Yeah, yeah, they'll they'll be selling you know, my scalp, the version of my bald head. Yeah, a little bit of foes on it. Yeah yeah, yeah uh, and there will be action figures. Speaking of selling stuff, the website also has the merchandise on there. I forgot

about that. Yeah, there's a little picture now that says merchandise little links you can go out and buy merchant Zazzle correct, yes, yeah, what else have you got? Twitter? We are on Twitter. We are Thinking Sideways. That's without the g and uh. Last of all, if you want to set us an email, then you can send us one at Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. And that's about it for all the information. Um and he last thoughts you guys, h alright, no, yeah, I know.

So we've been just as a heads up, we've been talking a lot about death and murder lately, so we're gonna change it up a little bit probably and talk about I don't know what, the tooth fairy probably yeah, something salamanders. Yeah, I've seen some really cool salamanders this week, so we're talking about salamanders. Yeah. Cool, that works for me. Cool. Alright, Well, so that's it for this week. So long, everybody see you in a week. We'll talk to you next week. Guys, Hi guys,