Thinking Sideways: Death of Annie Börjesson

is who thought jar Jar Banks was a good idea? No, it's not. I actually think we need to do an episode on that though it's just Darth Banks. I mean we can. We'll go there someday, you and I and all three of us can take a big bottle of booze. Let's keep going here. Yeah, okay, well I know our real mystery. Then we're gonna talk about the mysterious death of Annie Burgerson, who who was a thirty year old Swedish woman who was living in Scotland in two thousand

five when our mystery begins. By the way, this was suggested by our listener Mark, although he only got seven ages credit because I actually found this on my own and then I went and checked the list and his name was on there. So yeah, that's been happening to us to a lot happened last week with oh yeah, yeah, yeah, starting to get really good at our own research. Don't tell anybody, all right, back to this, so what are

we doing here? From okay? Back to our mystery. On December third, two thousand five, and he left her apartment in Edinburgh, Scotland, around one fifteen in the afternoon. Less than a day later, she was found dead on the beach at the seaside town of Prestwick, about eighty miles away. If you happen to be one of those people who lives in the country that's still clinging to the metric system,

that's a that's a hundred third the kilometers. Yeah, okay, yeah, I believe it or not, there's people who have not converted to our system. I know it is crazy. Yeah, that's we'll talk about that one someday too. So our mystery. Her body has found. The police come and get the body and investigate and did an autopsy and they concluded that Annie had drowned. Probably not an unreasonable conclusion, given

that there was stuff in her lungs and uh. Then they decided that she had either committed suicide or had been an accident. Um. But her family and some of her friends think that she was murdered and her body was placed on the beach by the murderer or murderers. And of course you can give it even more juice as a CIA angle to this story. Yes, I was surprised when I came across that. Yeah, I'm surprised. Actually it could be a CIA. It might be m I five or m I six. Also yeah, yeah you too.

Also yeah, uh, let me give you a little background on Annie. Uh. As I said, she was thirty years old, native of Sweden. Of course, she spoke quite a few languages, including English, and but it's one of the reasons she wanted to live in Scotland for a while is to perfect her English. Scotland the best place to learn definitely the best place to learn English. Yeah, but our Scottish listeners have said so themselves. Yeah, I couldn't understand about

is that what they said? Okay? Anyway, Annie, of course, according to family and friends, was intelligent, good nature, very talkative, unlikable and you started to get that feeling from reading about her of course the same time. Of course, and that's your dead daughter. You're not gonna say, yeah, there is a lot of information that is curated by her family.

Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. Uh. This was her third visit to Scotland and she had, reportedly I heard, had just found a job or was on the break of finding a job, and uh, so that was good news for her. In the days leading up to Annie's death, she did displace a little bit of unusual behavior. She lived in a place called the Lytton Court Apartments, and she had her own room, but that she shared a

kitchen with several other people. And I remember of the staff at the apartments who goes by the name of Jane. I've never found out what her last name was. Reported to police that Annie had been depressed a bit about a relationship with a man. Annie reportedly also told somebody else at the apartments whose name I don't know, or that she quote had to take care of something unquote, and that she quote had made a decision that might change her life unquote. So we don't know what that means.

Um well, I mean, we like to read ominous into things like this, but we in retrospect especially Yeah, but having you know, just decided, you know, just gotten a job in Scotland and maybe being considering, you know, moving their long term, that's a that's a pretty big life decision. Sure. Or maybe she decided to become an Amway rep. Yeah. Or maybe she decided that she was going to do out however, you know, a six month tour there and then go home permanently. I mean, there's a million ways

that it could have gone. There are life changing. Yeah. Maybe she was gonna think she was going to take care of was she was going to apply for citizenship to America. Yeah, I meant, you know, these are things it's easy to go really the dark angle, but it could literally be anything. Yeah, any given day for me, there's at least one thing that I need to need to take care of, several things, And if you if you want to be dramatic, almost anything I do during

the day could drastically change the course of my life. Absolutely, Clip your nails a little too close and you die. It happens. Forget to shaven. Yeah, my legs by the way, Yeah, do you save any legs of you only use that job as a leg model, Steve Listen, it's lucrative on December second, and he went to the Scotch Whiskey Heritage Center. Yeah she did. Yeah that sounds like a place, doesn't it. It really does, actually, but she had had a job

there earlier in the year, and uh she was. Once she was there, she ran into a friend and former co worker named Kat Dlmo, and Kat said that they sat down and had a chat and Kat said that Annie seemed her normal, cheerful self. Reportedly, though Annie's mood changed what she got a phone call for her mother, Guya at six fift PM. Annie had had some previous phone conversations with her dad and her brother and they

had both gotten the impression that something was wrong. Now, it might not be any big deal because I mean, if she was a little depressed over some guy, you know, maybe she was not quite as cheerful as would also have been. I mean, again, if we go back to the theory that she was planning to move to Scotland, that's something she was already in Scotland well, but I mean like move long term instead of saying I'm coming

back in a couple of months. That's something that's kind of ner racking to tell your parents, especially if you're close with them. Well, she's also a thirty year old woman, and I know a lot of people who's who are very close with their parents, and sometimes saying mom, cut it out doesn't go so well, and the parents immediately presumed that there's something wrong. Yeah, eight year old woman.

Sometimes you try to assert yourself, you know, to your parents, and they take well, they take that as you know, when you're trying to be an adult. They're like, but you're still on my baby, so let me help you. And that's I mean, that's a thing that happens, and it's hard, especially if you maybe have been living at home part time, I presume, and she lived in Sweed and she was staying with her parents. Yeah she was, so I mean that it's hard. It can be hard

to drink any kind of news like that. So again I'm just trying to continue to put the normal spin on things. Yeah, this is the stuff is not necessarily sinister. Yeah, but anyway, her mother was concerned, so she called, but Andy said she couldn't talk because she was hanging out with her friend Kat. And then Guya was a little persistent and asked Annie what was wrong, and Andie said, quote you have to respect this, but I have to take care of myself unquote. At least that's that's what

you see on the internet everywhere. But I listened to an interview Guya herself, and what she says in that interview is quote, you have to respect this, but I have to take care of this myself. So I have to take care of this myself. A little bit a little bit different, Yeah, but that's what actually said that Annie said, Right, So I don't know what how sinister at all is. I don't think it really is actually and not if not everybody wants to talk about everything.

Maybe she was depressed about some guy, but she didn't really want to talk to her mother about it. Yeah, yeah, I mean do you want to talk about stuff like that with your parents sometimes? But not. Yeah, there were some other strange things that happened, like her mother said that Annie, even though in her apartment she had a phone and she had a cell phone, she would actually leave the apartment to go to a phone booth and call home from the phone booth. I wonder if it

was cheaper. I was about to say, you know, cell phones, I mean, this is ten years ago international calling, because I obviously you guys family overseason. It was obscene and I would use a phone card, but you know there are there are some phones that couldn't you You couldn't dial even she didn't get great reception at her you know, if you don't get good section, Yeah, then you don't want to risk getting cut off if you're making this

really expensive across to a landline. Yeah. Yeah, So again this is not necessarily first shattering, but we're doing really good at just discounting everything. Seriously, God, you guys, come on, we have to cut it out. We gotta a cool mystery here. And then one of the weird thing happens again. Again. I have no idea that this had anything to do with Andy's death. But she met a guy at a nightclub called Mood and the guy wasn't called the nightclub.

Yeah yeah, this guy, this guy said that he was a rugby player from from New Zealand named Martin Leslie. And there really is a Martin Leslie from New Zealand. He plays rugby. I played for Scotland for for five years from like three. Just have to be this dude. Yeah yeah, but but yeah, he actually he actually hadn't been to Scotland in that year, a couple of years. Yeah, he hadn't been there for a while. Oh so that

was just masquerading as he was apparently masquerading. It might be if she she hung out there a lot at this nightclub, and she was also kind of into rugby players, so it might it might well have been to some other guy that kind of knew her was accorinted to with her, said said to this guy, hey, just lie to her, telling you to play rugby, show fall for

that everything. It might have been. Yeah, but I mean I guess on the other hand, right, you don't have to lie, so the lie doesn't have to be so grandiose. You can just say, like, yeah, I play rugby. But she was yeah, and she was exactly that would be better. Oh no, no, no, no, no, you obviously have not been a drunken dude in a nightclub before. Who the bigger the lie, the better Bernie Stinson or like what No?

But I um, but there there. I mean, you see these things where these people will say I met Shaquille O'Neal and here's my photo with him when we were at the mall, and it was so awesome, and they tweeted, and Shaquillo would right back. I mean Chicago playing a game right now. So I don't know who that dude is. Like this, it's a cardboard it's a cardboard cut out. Yeah, but no, it happens where people impersonate others all the

time because adoration feels wonderful. YEA true. It's a good way to get you know what, if you're a guy. It really it does kind of serve a very base need.

Yeah need, need, wont want desire, let's say desire. Apparently they did get along though, because they did spend several hours talking and yeah in the club and then the guy had a glass of champagne and he kept trying to get her to drink it and yeah, really seriously, that's like that that catchy yeah rufi, that's the first thing that pops into my impersonating somebody famous and here drink this drink drinking I only have one of these drinks. You.

If you're gonna drink a drink, it's got to be this, I mean not the other thing, right is especially like it's one thing to be like, I'll let me get you a drink. Oh I have this glass stream change do you want to know, Okay, I'll drink it. What do you want? Or over the course of the night, a couple of different glasses of the champagne, but to

be like, here's this one glass, drink it. Yeah, apparently, and he was sensible enough to not take it when she hadn't actually seen the glass, being you know, booze obviously smart girl. Yeah yeah, so yeah, so she didn't get roofing. Uh. And she also I didn't mention Danny was a swimmer. She was a good swimmer, and she swammed regularly at a pool in Edinburgh. And this Martin Leslie guys showed up on December one unexpectedly at the pool where she was swimming. I don't know that there's

anything sinister about that. Again, she probably mentioned to him that she swam at this particular pool, and he probably just wanted to come by and look at her in her swimsuit. And well, I mean, or she mentioned offhand that she swim at this particular pool. But that's the only he didn't you get a phone number or anything like that, and you wanted to talk to her again, and that was the only way, Yeah, that's possible getting

con tact with her. Yeah, he's looking like maybe that's suspicious. Well, no, I mean dual purpose, right, I mean this guy probably wanted to see her in a swim series. I'm not trying to figure out how you overcome. Oh and by the way, I totally lied to you about who I am. Now that I'm here at the pool, I don't know

if that lie had to ever have been overcome. Oh you're thinking that he might have tried to stay in character, that he continued the ruse, or even maybe he should be going to the place, you know, somebody works out at to meet them again, and staying in in character seems like quite a length. You don't really have to

stay in character. You're just Martin Leslie rugby player, you know. Yeah, I mean if she's never met Martin Leslie, Yeah, it seems like it seems like a stretch and focusing on something. It's also two thousand five, and it's not as though, I mean, the internet is a thing, right, But it's not as though, you know, everybody's immediate impulses to go out and google this person and learn everything about them, you know. So it's it's quite possible that she hadn't

done any research that he was still easily passing. Yeah, she actually in her apartment she did not have an internet connection. That was not so it was not a typical, especially I mean in England or I'm sorry, in Europe in two thousand five. So she would go to internet cafes and so you know, she it's one of those deleos or if she had limited time in the computer, she had better things to do than look up Martin Leslie. Yeah. Probably.

And let's let's talk to about Andie's last day. That would have been December December third, Yeah, her last So he went to the sorry not to really at home, but he went to there or the pool, the pool the two days before, two days before she disappeared. Yeah, exactly.

Her last setting in Edinburgh was at one fifteen when she left her apartment, although the timing of that has been called into question because she couldn't have gotten to the Glasgow Central station where she actually showed up a two fifteen and she had left that late apparently what I hear. Yeah, there's all kinds of timeline problems with this, but there's also problems where the time was recorded by her bank in the time zone the bank was in yeah,

which is an hour earlier than Yeah, exactly. So I just want to say that, so there's people will listen to this, they understand that. And yeah, the things we can probably count on our like CCTV and yeah, and and the Glasgow Central station where the A t M recorded the time she tried to make a withdrawal. Um, yeah she tried to twice. Yeah, she had insuficient funds. And so was that I mean, is that something that strikes people as odd or is that not surprising to

people generally? It's not necessarily surprisingly. Yeah, well she was unemployed. I mean that's that's forget. So funds were probably a little short, but she she had she wasn't a habit. She carried this thing called Filo Facts, which was basically like a day planner. Yeah, she have one of those. Yeah, I mean I don't have one of those. You don't have one of those? Okay, Yeah, so she kept money in there. She was found when they found out she had money on her I assumed in her pocket, her

pants pockets or something. She was just trying to take out more than she wanted. She wanted some more money for some reason. Yea, Um, it's it's believed that she hopped onto the two thirty train to Prestwick from Glasgow and her next sighting is at three fifteen on a close circuit TV camera. There's an overhead walkway that connects the Prestwick railway station with the Prestwick airport because there's

a four lane carriageway in between the two. And is that that's and that's the typical travel time for like

that right about an hour? Okay? Ask you? Is that the timetable never made sense to me because when I looked at up from where she lived and maybe you know, maybe it's just that traffic was being taken into consideration when I did this search, but it was by car, it was over an hour and a half trip and from where she lived to where she would to the airport, Okay, Yeah, So that was always there was always a bit of of hinky nous with this timetable because she is, well,

if she's getting on the train, um, the train takes even longer though, right, but in Glasgow from Glasgow to Prestwick, how long does it take from Glasgow to Prestwick by car? According to the what I ran, it was an hour and forty minute. Yeah, and it was almost three hours by bus and two and a half hours by train, and she was reported to have known she didn't have a way to get there by car. So I bring this up because I don't have an answer to it.

But this always struck me as odd, is that she leaves from Glasgow and then she goes she goes all the way over to press Wick, which is on the coast, on the West coast, and it seems like it was a long way. According to the Glasgow Presswick Airport website UM, from Glasgow Central Station to the airport UM, the train time is fifty minutes, but if you were looking from where she was living, it would have taken much longer.

That's what that's where I'm looking from, right, So it would have taken much longer because she it also took her that hour to commute from where she was living to the Glasgow Central station. She was seen leaving at one fifteen and she didn't get to Glasgow until two thirty to fifteen, so then it probably counted for that time as well, which would make sense for the our forty travel time. Right if she went by car, if she went by car directly from the place she was living.

And part of the weirdness with this timetable is the person at her apartment who said they saw her at a certain time. We don't we don't know if that's actually solved. Yeah, that's not solid. But I would say that the timetable from Glasgow to Presswick makes sense via train. But I I would agree that if I looked it up from where she was living in Edinburgh, it would take probably that long at least. Yeah, So anyway, we have many mysteries here. But she's arriving at the airport.

It's cut at three fifteen on the overhead and then she from the walkway, you go down an escalator and into the main terminal. Terminal is kind of long, kind of east west, and uh, she's captured at three sixty and fifty five seconds later coming out the other end of the terminal. That this is This has cost a little bit of head scratching because and I think it might just be that the that the the timers or the clocks in the in the city are just a

little bit off. But yeah, they're saying she would have had to have gotten all gone all the way down the escalator and through the terminal in fifty five seconds and apparently she could not have done that unless she was running, which she might have been doing. Um, you see people running an airports all the time, although it's it's not as recommended a thing to do these days as it used to be. And usually you see them running through security right like after they've gotten through security,

because they're running from to make their connections. Yeah, that seems less likely. And as I mentioned at three sixty, she's captured again at CCTV TV footage coming out of the terminal where there is a short term parking lot car park to you Brits h and three minutes later caught on the same camera coming back into the terminal, heading back the way she came. So she spent three minutes in the parking lot. Did she have a luggage

with her? Yeah? She had. She had I think a shoulder bag and another bag, but not like a roller bag, nothing like that, just to kind of day bags or something. Yeah, it's it's apparent to me that she I think she may be meant to go back to Sweden. Was everybody ticket but she didn't stay in the airport. Yeah, according to and his friend theory. Yeah, but anyway, she apparently on the tape looked angry and again nobody knows why.

And at three twenty she's captured on a video again getting back onto the walkway back over to the trail the train station. Uh so she spent a grand total of five minutes in the airport, three of it in the parking lot, and then just left without buying a ticket, because that's presumably what she would have been there to do, buy a ticket and catch her flight, but apparently she

decided to postpone that. But we do know that she planned on going back to Sweden because she had made an appointment with her hairdresser for December five, which in Sweden. In Sweden, Yeah, she also had her passport with her and she did have the bags, and so yeah, it looks like she was planning on going back. That trump's

my theory. My theory was that fake rugby player guy, what's his name, Martin, Yeah, that he had said, hey, I'm rich and well traveled, let's go away together, and that she you know, he said I'll meet you at this spot. I'll have driven my car and he didn't show, and she was angry and left. But three minutes would be an awful short amount of time to give up and leave in frustration. I mean unless yeah, unless she had googled his name, or I mean, unless she his

ruse was up. I don't know. I mean it's I don't know, he's making out with another lady in his car. I don't know. Yeah, you know, it was you know, everybody. The prevalence theory is that she was there to meet somebody, Yeah, who wasn't there. No other possibility is that somebody was supposed to leave a car for her car wasn't there, Or maybe somebody was supposed to leave something in or under a car. So hey, you know, go to go to this ford Blue Sudan and then you know, on

the left front tire, I'll leave something. You know, I'm going to leave ann ounce of smack for you or something like that. I don't know, yeah, or me. I mean, maybe she was running late, that's why she Maybe she was running through the terminal. Yeah, why she hustled through, and she was you know, she was meant to meet that person at you know, to thirty or something like that or three third connections, she asked her, and so

she went to see if they were still there. They weren't there, turned around and left, which would make sense. I mean, if you were late, you wouldn't wait for someone, Yeah, you would leave and then try and contact them. Yeah, so that's entirely possible. Unfortunately, we just don't know, and she didn't after that, didn't spend any time at the airport though she's sixty. Of her time at the airport was spent in the parking lot, so that appears the

parking lot was her real true destination there. The rest of the time at the airport was spent, you know, zipping through the terminil one way and then zipping back the other way. Yeah, so we don't know. And then after that, it appears and he headed towards the town of press Wok on foot, although nobody really knows exactly because she was captured again at on a c CCN camera at four or five on Station Road, which is about halfway between the airport and where the body was found.

But the image is kind of blurry and it might well have not been any and the police expert took a look at the video, as he said, it was impossible to tell so well. Part of the problem is is that that was right around sunset yeah, right after sunset ranch I think since it was three that day. Yeah, so it's obviously getting dark and that so the camera's not going to have a good clear image. And do we know how long it would have reasonably taken someone

to walk from the Prestwick Airport to Prestwick proper? I would say, like, was if that if that was her at four or five on the CCTV, would it have been really like that would have been a reasonable amount of time for it to have taken her to walk that far. Yeah, it's about forty five minutes. I think I think she probably could have walked the distance forty five minutes. It looked like it was two miles or so. I mean it was around It wasn't like it was a straight shot. Yeah, so it was kind of a

round about way to go. Yeah, but she could have easily, But again we don't know that that's her. She was spotted again by eyewitnesses at four thirty on the beach, although I discount this one pretty heavily, but there were two guys standing on the sea wall. They saw somebody standing at the water's edge not really been looking at to see. The tide was low and the beach of Prestwick.

You guys probably know this is extremely flat and it goes out for love, goes at a long, long way, like I would say, to the tune of a couple hundred yards at a really super low low tide. You know you can it can actually yeah, I can actually be two yards. Yeah, extremely Yeah, the witness is estimated the distance at this point was a hundred fifty yards and again because of the time for thirty which is

forty minutes after sunset. Yeah, at a hundred and fifty yards, I really don't see how we can put any weight on this at all. Yeah, that's hard. I mean she did have some pretty distinguishing features, right you really really long blonde blonde hair, and you know, I don't think that's the most common thing to see in Scotland. But also you can't you can't say with certainty, oh I saw blonde, you know, I saw somebody that was what looked like really long blonde hair. You still can't say

for sure. Yeah, in mind, if it's a hundred and fifty yards out, she is against what is remaining of the setting sun. She's she's going to be frontlets. So you're all, yeah, so That's why I agree with Joe, it's very questionable on this this week. Yeah, and certainly it's a beach. You know, what do people do. People go to the beach and they hang out, They look at the sunset and standing around. Yeah, so if it could have been anybody. And then there's another witness, again unnamed.

This is per Guya heard the mother who saw her talking to two men at the sea wall at around the same time. So again kind of unreliable. So our our last really solid sighting is at three when she left left her on the airport. Yeah, but as far as the guys who who saw her standing hundred fifty yards out, the local police took that into account and that's one of the reasons they theorized that suicide was

possibly what she did. That seems like I'm sure we'll talk about this in theories, but I just want to go on record right now. Is saying that's a really rough, weird way to commit suicide. Well, it is, it's it's and I think it's reading a lot into it. Just because somebody's standing looking out to see does that mean

they're suicidal? I mean, who doesn't do that? Yeah? I did that too, in fact, that's I mean, that's a normal human thing to do, right you guys, you're standing there looking at something that's kind of pretty and then you're lost in thought. Yeah it is. Yeah, But I think I was listening to an interview with the Scottish guy named Tom Minogue. I don't know if you've heard of him. He's had a few things to say about this case, but he said in this interview he said,

the Scottish police really like to conclude suicide. Really a lot about the Scottish. Yeah, that was Irish, that was Ireland though, Oh you're right, yeah, but he's haided. He's had a number of cases, but one of the ones

that stood at the best was Billy Harrison. And this guy named Billy Harrison was a young man who was found He was drunk and he was found dead in a Glasgow alley and he had five separate head wounds in the back of his head, and the police concluded it was a suicide and the family, the family pressed hard to get reclassified as murder and have it investigated, and the police fought resisted it heavily, and they believed that he had he had fallen down and banged his

head and then drunkenly gotten back up, falling down again banged the back of it. Yeah, eventually they did reclassify it as as suspicious as suspicious death suspicious. Yeah, but it's it's kind of funny in a horrible sort of way. But yeah, I do know that the Scots are are known for pessimism, or I think I think they call it dour moods. That's that's just one of the biggest stereotypes of Scottish people in general. So well, maybe you never know. I mean, it does seem that people like

to hear that about the Fins. Also, you know here will be stereotypical again, but I think part of it might have to do with like living way the hell up there so far north at the thing you hear it about, or again too because it's so rainy and stuff. We are, Yeah, so we don't know anything about what she was up to between between three twenty in the afternoon and eight thirty in the morning the following day. Yeah, that's why do you have my woman's out walking her

dogund your body. Uh And for those of you who are gonna want to go out and google maps, it's look on it was on the beach near Grange Mirror Road. That's g R A N G E m U I R. And there's a parking lot right there, which is if you're if you're the mind that she was murdered somewhere else and her body was placed there well to be handy, handy little parking lot spot right there. Yeah, So the body was found faced up. Her jacket and travel bags

were nearby. And they didn't discover this right away, but a red and white police that she had been wearing under her jacket was missing, and her filo facts was missing. Yeah, they didn't figure out that the Police Angle hotel. Months later, the police, the police finally came across the c c C be at age of her going into and leaving the airport, and that's when they spotted the red and white fleece under her jacket. And so that was never explained.

What happened to that? Was it particularly windy, No, because the other things would have blown away to well. I was just thinking, okay, can I use a bit of rationale. You guys know that I for a long time commuted around this city by bus and train and when it's not cold, but it's rainy. I've got a bunch of layers on it. Suddenly I get too hot. I'm gonna strip down off one of the under layers and put everything back on. So then she stuffs in her bag.

It gets washed away, Like I can see that very simply as took it off, but put everything else back on that had been there beforehand. But the fact that her file fox FILO fax was also missing, is it is weird? Yeah, that's a little more serious. Well, I gotta be okay, we've talked about this before. Somebody's walking along and they're not the most scrupulous individual, and here's a body, and let me go through the pockets, take the whole bag if it's right there, because that is

very obvious. I don't. I don't think she kept the file off facts in the bag. I mean maybe she did. She might have kept in her pocket, yeah, I mean, if it was in her but either way, somebody could have done a quick inspection. So oh, there's cash in this five finger discount walking down the road. Oh yeah, she also kept money in there if somebody had seen her. Yeah, As I said earlier, and autopsy was done, her lungs were found to be congested the air pass. She just

contained froththy material, so they concluded drowning fair enough. Yeah, there was also a depression otherwise in her skin otherwise not described in great detail, some bruising on their right temple, abrasions on the left arm, and two contusions on the right arm. Police put these down to contact with objects in the water, so maybe I don't know. Toxicology testing showed no drugs in any system and a little bit of alcohol about point oh two. That's really not a

lot for um, because I looked it up. Actually, Um, for somebody who's like a hundred and twenty pounds, which I think she probably was, that's one serving of an alcoholic drink, right, so a glass of wine, a bottle of beer, or the one a jigger of alcohol an hour and forty minutes before. Yeah. Yeah, Although so it's not a lot of though for Annie, who was a very light drinker, it could have it could have been. It could have been. It didn't get her falling down drink.

But it also it also raises the question of like when did that happen. Let's you don't know she got she could have got to drink at four thirty or at nine PM or but I mean yeah, but also if she killed herself, you know, as stated right, because she was looking longingly into the ocean at four thirty, when did she have time to get that drink? She didn't an hour and forty minutes ago, she was running

through a terminal the airport. I mean, yeah, exactly. So that's that's a that's a bit of a question mark for me. Yeah, I was going to mention that in a series. Actually, I'm sorry, I'm pulling you. Yeah, yeah, oh okay, accorded to her mother, DNA from another person was found on Annie's hands. So that's why she thinks she was murdered elsewhere, is because the DNA should have

been washed off by immersion in the sea water. Oh yeah, think yeah, it should have, especially if she was in the water for long enough for there to have been bruising and abrasions and contusions and depressions. Right, if she was getting tossed around in the water enough for it to bang her body up a little bit, you would think that that would definitely wash the majority of stuff off. Yeah, I think about it is I'm not sure where the

DNA stuff comes from. That's what I was gonna ask is if there was DNA on her lips, that would be one thing, But it could have been anywhere in her hands, under her fingernails, in internally, So that begs the question of where was it Because then being in the water, the amount of time that it takes for to degrade and or wash away she snificantly changed. It would seem that the only place that it could reasonably have been found would be internally. Had she yeah, I would,

I would count under her nails as I guess. Yeah, although again I'm not entirely sure about the DNA being found. I mean it's like Goody was talking about, you know, comparing the DNA in her hands with with no no suspects perhaps that kind of thing. But how do you do that? Because if it's on her hands, it's already by definition, it's already contaminated. Yeah, so I mean it's not it's not not really any good for investigatory purposes unless you can, you know, do a couple matched markers.

And I don't even know how you I don't even know how you get d NA off. Somebody tell you the truth. I get their own DNA, of course, but how do you tell but they've got somebody else's DNA even on them. I mean, I don't understand DNA testing, so I can't even I would presume that it would mean that it would have to have been very different, i e. Like male, because you can certainly tell from DNA if it's male or female. N F females happens to have male DNA on her hands, you would presume

that's foreign usually. Oh yeah, but goo yeah said that it was a woman's I don't know. I have no idea, but I don't know anything about teach. I have no idea that when you know, if you're the Scottish police and you're investigating it's a suicidal swimmer, why you would even bother testing for DNA have somebody's hands anyway? Yeah, yeah, But there was a second second autopsy. Andy's body got

back to Sweden December sixteen. Uh and undertakers there, I found more extensive bruising on the right arma side and behind your right ear. Uh. And they also acquired a sample of Andy's bone marrow and sent it to a professor in Strasburg to look at. And he found evidence of freshwater algae in the bone marrow, which is interesting. I had no idea how freshwater algae can get into your bone marrow. It's kind of weird, but that's super weird.

Apparbably it was there. That led to speculation that Andie was drowned somewhere else and then dumped on the beach. But I've actually read testimony from other experts who say that it's much more likely that she got the alogay from just drinking contentment tap water, and that it probably edited her system long before her death. It would there would that's what I'm taking bone marrow. It would take a long time to get there. That's why I had another reason. I totally yeah, it was in the water

this Yeah, No, I don't seem strang. And she didn't have any broken bone. Yeah. I would also say that it's not really that startling to say there were more bruises found on her, given that there was more time than the blood would have settled and she was moved, and it's not I mean, it's not that startling. Yeah, it might be. Bruising is one of those things that you can pretty I trust an initial medical examiner on

because it's real hard to miss. You wouldn't be like, oh surprise, two months later, there's this bruise that we totally missed on her side. I mean, it's an easy thing to notice. It's one thing to say, oh, we didn't notice that her heart arteries were mildly inflamed. It's another to say, there was this huge bruise on her side that we totally missed, right right, Yeah, these things

you're really pretty obvious. And I could be wrong. It's different from place to place, but the things that I've read about it is, you know, they do standard examinations and there's methods to determine if they're subcutaneous bruising, to try and pick that up, because of course the bruise won't really grow. So I don't know, it's hard to say what the differences are from especially from country to country, let alone what we're used to, which is from state

to state. That's true. And also let's not forget the corners who actually, you know, we're doing the autopsy and in Scotland they were speaking you know, you've you've seen it on TV. They speaking to a microphone and they were speaking in what Scottish broke, so whoever was transcribing probably couldn't understand half what they were saying, kidding, guys, I love you, guys. I love Scottish brogue. Since I'm sorry, I'm just reading on Google again because you know that's

my thing. Will that, according to it a fair number of studies. This one I'm reading is on pub M d SO or pub med. Sorry that is that's a reasonably solid source. So it's that they've done studies and bruises, bruise like discolorations can appear after death. I've heard the same thing, So I mean it's reasonable to say not to beat a dead horse or anything. Oh no, no, I don't beat away. But nonetheless, Annie's family is not

convinced that she even died from drowning. Apparently they're still tissue samples in the possession of both the Scottish and Swedish governments, but they're refusing to release them for examination by independent experts. And I don't know why, because they could put this whole thing to rest. Frankly, they may very well. I hate to sound insensitive, but not care to talk about this with other mysteries where we say it would be really easy if they would just do

this thing, but for them it's closed. They don't care. Yeah, they don't maybe, and they're probably totally convinced that it just drowning. I mean, it's not not outrageous. It was from a dead body on the beach, I mean with water and the lungs. Yeah, it does appear that the the investigation in the in the autopsy were kind of cursory. It's it does seem like they could have probably been

a little more thorough. Uh. It really does look like the police just immediately assumed that it was drowning and it was either an action or suicide, and they'd never really pursued it as even possibly being a murder, which I think is probably fair enough. Even though it's quite likely that it is just an accidental drowning. They probably should have kept their minds a little more open. Oh yeah,

there's another mystery. Annie had waist length hair, and when the body got back to Sweden almost all of it had been cut off. But it was cut off in a really random way too. It wasn't cut off even it was cut off in in locks. They just grabbed a bunch and cut it off, and so she wound up with some some locks of hair coming from a scalp about five centimeters out and others about fifteen sixteen centimeters.

It really makes me really weird. It makes me think of a you know, a little boy that gets hold of his his sister's barbie and just starts hacking the hair with That's exactly what it makes because it always kind of has that random, tough appearance that it's totally twisted six serial killer kind of behavior. I mean, it was like, I know you're making frankly, it is a little weird. Well, yeah it is. No, it's it's definitely weird. Uh, And I can't explain it away. No, I can't really either.

But at the at the first autopsy in Scotland, they reported in the report that her hair was long because it was long, So I just mentioned it was weird and weird appearance because even I mean, she had really really long hair, so even cutting you know, inches off of it, it would still appear long. Yeah, but kind of cutting so much, that's only five centimeters coming out of that. That's not long now. So yeah, and he didn't cut her hair obviously, if she was murdered, the

murderer couldn't have cut it. The funeral undertakers in London and said they cut a little bit off of her hair to make it look more presentable. They said four or five centimeters. That's like two inches. By the way, for US Americans, it's centimes is one point nine. Yeah, and she was and it was due for a haircut, so she probably did has some money even ends probably and so they just they just trimmed him off a

little bit. You would think, just in one fell swoop there shouldn't have been a yeah, and so that that's what they said it And then they shifted off the swede and somewhere between there and when the family saw the body, somebody grabbed a bunch of hair. That's really weird. It's like somebody wanted to make a wig. Well, no, I kind of wonder is that one of the things that's required when you transport a body internationally is that

you embalm it. And I don't know that necessarily. The folks that did the medical examination on the body and the folks had embombed it were the same. So I wonder if somebody you kind of hit the nail on the head where I was heading here, Joe, is that they went, well, we did our job here, and uh, I'm a copple hotter. Box short and I know I got this wig business on the side, look at that. Or you can sell it, yeah, and just pack it off and well nobody'll ever be able to track it down.

Nobody will you even notice, except that in this case they totally did. I mean except that, like, it's so much easier to just gather in one handful and cut and it turns out okay, I mean, like I've donated hair one word greed. I guess it's just easier and easier to manage when you are shipping it off. Then you just like, you don't send a bag of hair. It has to be you don't, but I do. Okay, well you don't have hair, So this is why I keep saying enough bag falls of it. Yeah, yeah, that

is weird. Also, the other question I guess I have is um, when you evalm a body, can you do an autopsy on it? You do the autopsy prior in autopsy happened in Sweden on December, and that secondary autopsy would have suffered because of the fact that the body had it embolved and the body it also just deteriorated because it have been a couple of weeks. So okay, yeah, I mean the body got to Am I correcting this, Joe?

Or am I confusing this with another story that her or some of her internal organs were actually in bags, they were no longer in the body. Is that right? Or am I mixing that up with a different embalming story. You know, I don't remember what this one, actually, I don't remember. I remember there was there was some weirdness about the whole embalming process, and of course, whenever you do it, you screw up anything. But they do that.

I've read because there's another case that I'm really interested in that has to do with some weirdness with autopsies. But they pull the organs out and bag them and stick them back in the body cavity. Okay, but that's a typical that's a normal thing. Okay. I remember reading that and kind of had a WTF moment. Yeah, because you don't want like, you've got all these organs and they've got fluids and stuff, and they're not going to get the embalming fluid in them, so okay, you just

stick them in bags. But totally makes sense. God something creepy about that, Oh yeah, a little bit, Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's why I'm going to get cremated. Yeah, I'm thinking that might get cremated tooth. That's that's hundreds of years down the line, So I'm not gonna worry about it again. Yeah. Oh yeah, of course, again as I messing before. Yeah, I made it packed with the devil. That's what that portrait is. Yeah, Satan. Let me give a shout out

to Satan. Yeah, christ if I left facts was missing, because again she never went anywhere without it. She did keep money in it. So if she was murdered, maybe robbery was the murder, the murder motive? What else happened? And then in the aftermath of the death and everything, some other strange things happened. Um, Andy's mom went out to her hotmail account and found that everything had been wiped.

All the emails had been deleted since and received. Do we have any sense if that was a typical it turns out, you know, and a lot of the accounts of this you read that, and then but again and the the interview with Yeah that I listened to, she

said that a lot of stuff have been deleted. Yeah, So like I guess for me, I'm I'm just guessing that Annie was a fellow type a personality given that she has a file effects that she carries around with her and like most most type of personalities don't do that. And I am a militant inbox zero person. I file away or delete all of my emails. If there's more than like three or four emails in my account, I get really stressed out. You guys know this because you

manage an email account with me. It's not starred. It's got to be filed immediately, And so it wouldn't surprise me to know that that's just how she managed her email account. Anyway, Well, yeah, I don't recount when you saw my email account that has emails from ten in the just the inbox section. Still, yeah, I mind that way too, But they're red. I'm keeping them. I know what they are. But the look on your face going files or nowhere, Now that's probably a good system. Maybe

someday I'll adopt that a thousand unready emails. But anyway, anyway, I'm glad that I listened to that interview with good because because every account you readed this, her hotmail account was totally wiped and her but she just said that a lot of stuff was missing, a lot of stuff that she expected should be there was not there, So okay,

I go either way on that. Yeah, her friend for some reason was was wanting to pull her phone records, and she because she had been talking back and forth with Annie between Sweden and Scotland, and she said that phone calls in both directions were just not recorded. They were not they were. Yeah, that's right, they just weren't. Yeah, okay, I mean I guess, and they were. They were definitely

from the cell phone. I mean I guess presumably too, you would know what phone number you were calling, but I guess we talked about her using the pay phone a lot and now national calls, so I guess. Yeah. But still, even the incoming calls should have been the incoming calls phone should have been on the self. So

why that's not there? I mean, the only thing that I could even remotely think that would explain it is because porting your phone number was becoming available at that time where you could take it from Carrier AID to Carrier B. But that is just such a random thing to have just coincided with when she did it that I doubt that's the case. Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah,

So yeah, the phone records you missing. I don't know, but that this adds up to another all the stuff to missing emails and missing phone calls, and then Maria Maria isn't Jansen or Johnson, her friend Maria Johnson started getting creepy phone calls. You picked the phone rangs, You pick it up and there's silence on the other end. And so was that her friend that asked for the

phone records? How that connects? Okay, Sorry I should have messtioned that earlier, and I think I mentioned Gloria Johnson's name earlier. Yeah, that was a friend that was had talked to her a lot on the phone and wasn't looking for the phone records, and yeah, they were gone missing.

She was getting these mysterious phone calls. And uh, eventually somebody put forward a theory that sort of like ties all this stuff up, why this weird stuff was happening, And which is that Annie Bergerson's full name is Anti Christina Bergson, and there's a journalist whose name is Christina Borgesson. So it's like it's spelled exactly the same, except it doesn't have the two little dots over the oh at

the beginning there. So yeah, so Christina and Christina Bergson and Christina Borgson who was a journalist who had been investigating extraordinary renditions that were being run through the Prestwick Airport. In other words, c A planes were landing in Prestwick, refueling, stopping over and and then taken off to go on their way. Um and right, do I need to explain

extraordinary rendition? Yes? Okay? Uh? Rendition is so like the U. S. Government takes in the custody at a known terrorist, for example, they might find themselves a little short on jail space and so or maybe they've got to get a cell ready for him. So while they're getting a cell redecorated, we might we might ask our friends Saudias or maybe the Jordanians or the Egyptians or somebody to just look

after them for a little while. And then you know, of course, while they are at custody over there, then they might decide to ask a few questions punctuated by the occasional application of a hot poker kind of thing or the extraction of a fingernail. So that's what rendition is. Yeah, that's what rendition is. Yeah, some light drowning yet a little water boarding, You know the Yeah, and some some

overhydration if you will. Yeah, so that's rendition um. And then uh, of course eventually we finished with the cell remodel and then we get them back. But uh, yeah, so I guess I, for all of my like buying into government conspiracy theories, didn't realize that was the thing that we did. We didn't know that. I know, I didn't. Steve's looking at me like I'm a crazy person. I'm not a synth. I haven't been replaced. I just didn't

know that happened. I mean, it makes total sense now that you say it, But I didn't know that that was a thing. Well, you know, that's the whole thing is, like, you know, we can't really do that stuff over here, so we just we just say, hey, guys, why don't you take care of these guys for a while. I'm gonna go get a coke from the machine. Anybody want anything? Yeah, I'm gonna get a coke from the machine. Now it's at the far end of the building and I won't

be able to hear the thing that's going on in here. Yeah. So's so anyway, that's the whole story pretty much. Mysterious death creepy email and phone mail and phone call stuff, and s C I A a journalist who had the same name. And the theory is that it was a case of mistaken identity hits like a CIA or M I five AM I six hit squad took out any thinking, yeah, thinking that she was just journalist Christina Borgson. Did they look similar at all? Well, I'll talk about I'll talk

about that. I was gonna say, are we gonna go straight into that theory? Where do you want to start here? Well, let's start with number of theories. Yeah, we can start with suicide by drowning, um, because that's the official line. Yeah, of course, you know, she obviously didn't commit suicide immediately and when she was seeing at the seashore for thirty which by the way, that probably wasn't her. But uh, there's no evidence that she was suicidal. And uh, of

course that's a weird way to kill yourself. It is, it's been done. Um. But and she would she couldn't have waited out to see at that time because, like you said earlier, she had alcohol her blood streams. She had to go somewhere and get a drink. Yeah, so she couldn't have done it at for thirty and then you go somewhere, you get a drink, an hour and a half passes because you know it's on safe to swim drunk anything you can have started to come back

in because a real four thirty it was LOWD time. Yeah, And I feel like when the tide is coming in, it's harder to kill, right. It's easier if there's like a rip tide and it's going out, just dragged out to scene and that's like fine, whatever, you're done, But if the tide's coming in, it seems like it would be harder. That's just like a layman's probably really uneducated version of how things work. But also she was a really strong swimmer, and people's you know, instinct to live

does kick in. It's a very documented it kicks in. It. I haven't struggled she would have had to wade a long way out and be really determined. Yeah, right, Like really, I don't believe. I have a hard time believing that that's what she did, because, like we've talked about, automatic reactions just kick in even though you're probably closed and it's your clothes are soaked and they're going to weigh you down so shy allow that it seems like it would be easy to just dog paddle all the way

in and then suddenly be able to walk again. Yeah, because the sea wall, Joe, you and I talked about this yesterday. The sea wall at its high point there where she was found, is what a meter high? So well, now it's more than a meter high, I mean because typically at high tide it's usually about a meter d. Okay, that's where I got. So we'll just say this. The sea wall is a meter and a half couple of high, you know. Okay, well, but if the only a meter deep,

it's only a meter d still drown yourself in that? Yeah? I mean that deadly dihydrogen mon oxide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean if she came back and say, wanted to kill herself, she could have done it. But again, she wouldn't have taken her bags with her, and she would have it and she probably would have been she would have gotten slashed, right, I mean, you would assume she would have have way more alcohol or so she gonna kill yourself, you might as well go out and style

party down. But if you're not a big drinker, I don't I don't think that that necessarily would be the mindset I mean, I would see, Okay, if from what I know about Annie, I would say, being as you said, kind of the type A. She's a strong swimmer. For whatever reason she decided to end it all in this situation, she would swim. She would swim to the horizon exactly because that you're so tired that even when your instinct kicks in, you can't make it back. But then the clothes.

I'm a swimmer. The last thing I want to have on is a bunch of clothes because I can't get as far that. If she's that far out, doesn't it seem unreasonable that her body would have washed ashore as early as that morning, should have sunk and then washed ashore rightly saying that she was smart enough to come back at high tide and jump in. Then it starts swimming. Yeah, But then I mean, because the mermaids aren't gonna put her clothes back on her for modesty, saying, I mean,

it just it doesn't. The whole thing doesn't make sense to me, is where I'm going. I'm sure it wasn't suicide. No, Yeah, well, let's move on to our next year. If you guys are anything more. Yeah, and I think it's I think that suicide is a pretty lame explanation, So it could have been an accident. So let's let's assume that Annie went and had a drink or two and came back

at a later time. I'm willing to say the bid with that B A C. Two drinks over the course of an hour, is it really the most because right after you die this correct me if I'm wrong, Right, But once you've dead, your your B a C stops degrading, right, yeah, your because it's not processing anything. So it would have been the maximum that she really would have had is like two drinks two hours ago. Yeah, So she's not she's not hammered, but she's feeling maybe a little tipsy maybe. Yeah.

So later on that night, it's high tide, there's some water down there, and he goes down to the sea wall, jumps up on it and shouts, I'm the kick of the world, and then loses her balance and falls in the water. Average temperature of the sea in the area at that time of year is about eight degrees cytigrade or forty six degrees fahrenheit, which is cold. Yeah, quite like you know the average temperature of the organ coast. Yeah, exactly. But humans have a reflex which causes them to inhale

sharply if you're suddenly unexpectedly immersed in very cold water. Uh. It kills a lot of rafters in kayaks. And I personally experienced it myself one time. Have you experienced that? Yeah, I was in a raft and it was like April on the Sandy River and the water was damn cold, and we got dumped in the water and I just want like that and luckily my face was above water. But damn that. Oh yeah, yeah, but a lot of a lot of people, it doesn't work out so well.

It kills a lot of people. So something like that happened, and she accidentally fell into the water or somebody pushed her into the water or whatever. It's entirely possible any even even though being a strong swimmer, could have inhaled a bunch of water and just drowned. Well, there's also

to to run along that. And let's not just say necessarily that she was at the sea wall, because we're making a presumption that she was at the sea wall because somebody saw that person who has been identified with found. She was found close to the sea wall. But bear

with me here. The thing that I looked at is so at that time of year, they're getting about four inches of rain, and I pulled up the maps, the flood maps for that area, and just north of where she's found is the Power Burn, which is a smaller creek river that runs underneath the airport and then pops out kind of north of where she was. And then there's the bigger river, which now I cannot think of. I know the creek name, but I can't think of

the bigger river that's right there. But it's entirely possible that she could have been, you know, walking over bridge or goof around on the banks for whatever reason, and went in there. That water would have been high enough to wash her out into the surf. And in that area, the sea tends to run from south to north, so she's in the bigger river, the one that's south of where she was found. She would have gone in the water.

She would have been washed out across the delta into the lower the low water because it's not that high, and then the current would have taken her north as it pushed her inland until as it recedes, it leaves her on the beach. If there a bridge over that river, there are, so it would be possible, if we were going to go back to suicide, it would be possible that she is I was gonna say, unless she zip tied her bags to her, there's no way that she

could have kept them that whole journey. But it is entirely possible that she could have gone in not into the sea, but into a relatively quickly flowing river, and then gone out to see and then made that circular, kind of C shaped trip back. Except except for the jacket in the bags. Ye seems that the bags are the goofy bit in this whole story, no matter what way you slice it, except for the one theory that we haven't gone to or one of the theories, the

bags are the odd ball. But I wanted to point out that she could have gone into a river and not necessarily into the ocean, not as possible except for the bags. Yeah, Yeah, the bags, damn bags, Yeah, the bags. The bags. Actually, Um, I think really kind of argue against almost every theory here but one. But let's go out of some more theories. Next theory is murder. Well, there's more than one murder. This is one of those, right,

like murder heading withheadings. Yeah, use bullet points this time to read in my file of facts the right way. I you know, I sometimes like to use bullet points, but sometimes in word they could just be kind of a nuisance, you know what I'm saying. You just don't know how to use them more properly. Probably true. But let's go out all right. Let these will be quick for our first one. There's stream sub possibilities. Let me get these out and out in the front now. Murder,

robbery or robbery murder if you prefer that. Next one random murdered by psycho okay, and next one mistaken identification and murdered by the CIA or am I six. So those are three categories of murder here, unless you guys can think of any others that kind of covers it. So that would explain murder robbery man, that would explain

why the file effects is missing. If somebody is say, ran into her in the bar and noticed that she like opened up her file effacts and pulled out cash to pay for her drink um and then befriended dir and then went for a stroll on the sea wall and then eventually he um say, shoves her off the sea wall into the water and grabs her jacket with the filo facts, pulls the file effects out, throws that acting to the water. After and he didn't mean to

kill her. She's just down there floundering because she's inhaled a bunch of water, so he doesn't realize how much trouble she's in. He throw us the bags in after it takes off and takes off real fast, and she drowns, and of course he never comes forward and says, hey, and I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to kill her. I sort of stole her stuff. But and to give a little bit of credence to this, she has proven herself to be, at least to a certain degree, gullible

enough to take whatever people say it faces value. Yeah exactly. Her friends, her friends said that she she's a really sweet person, really nice or it was a really sweet, nice person, a little a little bit too trusting, And so a situation like that, I can see where somebody accidentally didn't really mean to even kill her, just shoved

her into the water and then beat feet out of there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I know people like that, who are They've gotten ripped off too many times that just because they believe people and they rust people, and lo and behold, people are what they say they are. Yeah, when the son of the deposed ruler of Nigeria emails you personally, you give him the money that he's asking for. This is the reason that I've installed so many virus programs

and malware programs on a certain elderly family member's computer. Yeah, good idea. Yeah, I always give my bank account number. It's really it's really weird. No, let's just stop. Yeah, okay, yeah, there there is by the way, there's a website devoter to this whole thing. I've told you about it. Yes, that's our next one. Random murdered by psycho. Well, it happens on a regular basis to people all the time. That's I mean, that's why we have a podcast, Yeah,

fodder for this entire thing. Yeah and so yeah, so some psycho meet true the bar and I clever something like that, and then invites you to go for a stroll on the beach and then and you know, this would help to explain the presence of the bags, you know, right near her body. Uh So he the tides coming in and holds her under, and yeah, it's not necessarily completely all the way in, but they just wait up for the shore and they shoves her down and shoves

her face into the water and drows her. You know, it's entirely possible to be consistent with the bruises on her body if you've got enough of a surprise on her and had leverage on honor and everything. She couldn't really struggle all that much. But she didn't. She wasn't a terribly large girl. She wasn't, yea, she was pretty easy to her. Yeah, yeah, I know. If you get somebody face down in the body of water and you're a slightly larger stature and can just get on their back,

they're done. I mean, because you have, like said, there's a leverage issue, there's nuns. Yeah, although you would assume that there would be some like she would have inhaled sand or something as well. You're you're you're putting logic into this, which is just sorry. Yeah, I mean, well, yeah, or you don't necessarily stand you could have shoved her face into a mud puddle and drugger to the beach. I don't know, Yeah, there's all sorts of possibilities. A fountain.

Are there fountains in the area. I'm sure there are. We'll just go with that, yeah, yeah, okay, Or or a toilet at a nightclub. That's true too, Yeah, carried her outside. I don't know if she had too much stream Yeah, I know. Yeah, okay, So that one. I think that there is not much support for that, and I'd like murder robbery better. Frankly, well, yeah, either murder robbery or murder by random psycho. Both of them typically don't present any evidence, so we would have no way

to know on either count. They're totally random. Yeah, yeah, I mean, the missing filo facts tends to support the murder robbery thing, but I have to admit there's other explanations for the missing file facts. But yeah, uh. Our next murders theory mistaken identification murder. I've just looked up a picture of the supposed doppelganger, and this is what she looks like. Oh no, I know, I know. Yeah, it would be hard for them to mistake one for the other. They are both blonde, they had the same

hair color. But that's where literally they're both white women with blonde hair and that's about it about it now, Yeah, Christina Christina Borgesson is a lot older and heavier, and they have much different faces, especially the jaw line. Yeah, well Christina has a bob. I haven't seen her with anything than like shoulder length hair. Annie's hair was waist length. Yeah I know. And also how did the CIA or Mi Sex or whoever know that Annie was impressed Wick

because they had lu there? Well why would? But they know who she is and they know she's not the journalist Christina Borgeson that they're thinking about. Right, So she goes, she goes to the airport. A watcher spots her, reports reports back to h Q since immediately sense it hit squad depressed Wick, But how to watch her? Spot hers nothing like the journalist in question? Have you never seen any like Big Brother TV series? To know that all CCTV is monitored by a huge computer that runs facial

recognition and returns names. And if you've got a new hire who says, oh that's something Christina Borgson, well that's her, she's there. We got to send a hit squad right now like that damned deficient and realistically right, it's not as though the hit squad that you send is knows who they're looking at you, just you give them the description if you're just a dumb analyst who miss mistook one person for another. Right, yeah, okay, that's the thing, right,

that's the thing that's that's the thing on TV. I don't know that's the thing in real one. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. Yeah, you're gonna say weight on TV. They can take the CCT footage and they can enhance in hand in hand, hands hand, what's that in the mirror? Oh? InHand, that's a perfect HDTV thing. Yeah. I love that they could. They can image just like seventeen pixels and they can make it, like I say, an h D image and we will set me on fire faster than watching a

TV show that does that. I was watching and just add a little suspense. It's like that, well, you know, we gotta enhance this thing, but it's gonna it's gotta grind away of doing this for a while. It's just like, gave us a really cool, suspenseful thing that will hold us over the commercial break, you know and everything. And then of course when they finally they finally materialized, oh my god, it's our coworker. Yeah, let's do what I always always loved. I was always loved twenty four because

all right, let's get back to something else. Oh yeah, so they had no way of knowing. The only way they could have known that Annie was I pressed Wick is that they already had her under surveillance. But if they already had her under surveillance, they would have known she was not that Christina Borgson that they were looking for.

Unless okay, so let's take this a different way. Maybe they did know she was there because they had led her there, because is they didn't think that she was this person, but they were trying to involve her in something else that she could have been an asset. I mean, it's entirely possible that she could have been in some failed scheme that I'm not even in a guess at and it went south and she was the only one

who paid the price. So it may not have been them who killed her, whether it be C I A M I six, whatever Alpha numeric's super name you want, but it could have been that whoever the intended target was that she was there to interact with, did it. Because if I know anything about world intelligence, it's that Sweden and Scotland are two of the highest asset places it really are, you know. But I A and M I six they like to go everywhere, they get involved,

everywhere they're not wanted. So it's entirely possible that any of these super spy or zations could have been doing something. Now again, do you think that's the case. We'll give your theory a star. Okay, the look on your face, you're gonna give me some astronomical Yeah. Uh see, I was gonna I was just gonna stick the last nail in the CIA thing because this seems to be a very popular theory out there. Well everybody. Yeah, so not only a please stop bugging my house? Yeah, dude, just

too late for that. But besides the fact that, I think it would have been nearly impossible for them to mistake the two of them, the Christina Borges and herself, the journalist has said that she never investigated pressed Wick Airport. Of course she'd say that, yeah really, of course I wouldn't cop to that. Yeah, now that somebody's been killed. Yeah, But the other thing about it is is that so so I'll make they're doing extraordinary rendition and they're running

some of their playing sup pressed way. Uh, well, we got to cover that up, but really, why bother because it was already in the news by late two thousand five, and they really need to be killing people over this and yeah, and again Christina Borgesson, Um, I don't think she was investigating it. I was not able to find much out there about rendition by her. Well, so as she has, has this woman broke anything that was of

earth shattering proportions? I mean, does she ever been in the beginning of some story that, oh my god, we would our world is completely different because we know this. She's she's one of the big proponents of the reopening the nine eleven investigations eleven or two t w A fight. Yeah, uh so, I mean, I guess in that respect maybe, But so she's an uthologist, she's a truth there, truthologists. Truth yeah what I called it, whatever you want, but

they're called truths. She she originally used to be a producer for CBS News. Nick Cash aired her because she wouldn't get she just wouldn't let go of the t w A flight eight hundred story. Yeah, and so they foinally said, okay, crazy out the door and yeah, And she's still best known for for the flight eight hundred story, and that is the one she pushes a lot. I found a report Flight eight for anybody who doesn't understand. Yeah, Flight eight hundred is a flight. It was a seven

forty seven out of New York GfK Airport. It was in and it crashed. It exploded in mid air and crashed and the like long island sound. I think, Oh, and this is the one they say he was shot down. Some people claim that they saw missiles heading towards it. Yeah, and uh, and then it was shot down, either by by terrorists or by by the navy. The Navy was also nearby shot it down. Yeah. Yeah, So anyway, I think that out of all our theories, the I think the suicide and the murder by c are the both

are both just really out. They're completely out, So murder possible. I'm still I'm still thinking probably accidental drowning. Yeah, there's the more I think about, Like, especially when I looked at the flood maps and realize how high the waters were at the time I could see because of the sea going into the ocean when it's such a gentle slope, seemed so implausible to have done herself in. And I know the bags. Still screw this whole thing up. But I could see, based on the water levels of the

rivers where something could catch somebody off guard. But I don't know. I don't have a good answer for this. And the bags. The bags kind of rule out almost everything except accidental drowning. Really when you think about or the body having been dumped thereafter the fact. Yeah, why would you bother with the bags and the jacket? Yeah? Um, well to make it look like she drowned, Well, I guess, but you know, you know, if you should toss him up the beach the bay, now the bags, I would

leave the bags. If I was gonna fake a murder, I would dump her body in the beach and I would leave the bags at the sea wall. I would leave them up on top of shop round with you, I know, because I've got a criminal mind. I've been to the beach with him, and he will shove you. I have the waterline, it doesn't matter that it's just the foamy bit he shoves you in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you remember that last time we were over here and I hand to do that revolver and I said, hey,

gy A, your fingerprints all over this. We don't do that. Yeah. Yeah, all right, So mry sad accident. Um, do you guys have any other thoughts? No, I think we've kind of yeah, I pasched this one. I think we're good. Yeah, okay, all right. Hey, if you have thoughts of your own about this, and I'm sure at least some of you do, or if you knew, if you knew Annie, and you'd like to contact us, and please do. Uh. You can find us through email at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail

dot com. Uh. Let see. You can also find us on Facebook, so like us, follow us, uh and join the group. Yeah, don't try to don't try to friend us, just join the group. Uh. We're also on Twitter at Twitter, we are Thinking the Sideways leaving out the G and of course we are on iTunes. In fact, you probably are listening to us through iTunes, but if you're not, go listen to iTunes, subscribe, leave us a review, leave us a rating. Yeah. There's also streaming services pretty much

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figured that, but I thought i'd ask. And of course we are on Patreon. Patreon is like this service where you pledge a certain amount per episode or totally optional. Don't feel like you have to do it, just helps you free costs. And by the way, because again we are gotten lazy. For everybody who has gone on Patreon, or for everybody who has gone on to the papal, thank you very appreciate. Mean to say this more often, and we don't say it really thank you. Yeah, we

do appreciate you. Guys. We're gonna do something nice with you, like I don't know what say thank you on our show. Oh yeah, we'll do that. I said. You go out to patreon dot com slash thinking sideways and you know, donate to your heart's content or not whatever. H So that's it for this week. You guys got any more thoughts? Yeah? I mean either um anyway, UM, So I guess it'll be next week we'll talk about another dead prayer and

probably or something. All Right, we'll talk to you next week. Everybody, all right, Bye, everybody,