Sharri | 29 May

Live on Sky News. This is Sharry.

Good Evening Tonight our exclusive on how Susan Lee ghosted Jane Hume for days in the lead up to her ruthless dumping. I'll tell you about their phone call just ninety minutes before the press conference.

More details in a minute.

Paul Keating is set to launch a campaign against Jim Chalmers taxon unrealized capital gains. Robert gott Liebsen has that scoop and he'll join meet tonight. Israeli President Isaac Hertzog implause Alban easy to actually visit Israel and see for himself what's going on. Chris Kenny met with Herzog today and he'll be on the show live.

Plus.

Matt Canavan kickstarts his campaign against Net zero.

He'll be here to explain why.

But first tonight I can reveal that Liberal leader Susan Lee ghosted Jane Hume for days, ignoring her texts and phone calls, before finally telling her she'd been dumped just ninety minutes before announcing her shadow cabinet Sauces close to Senator Hume told me that multiple texts and phone calls to Susan Lee went unanswered.

This for several days while Lee was formulating her front bench team.

Susan then finally rang Jane Hume and told her there was no role for her. This was an hour and a half before she fronted the press. The source told me it was completely ruthless. We've gone from people talking about Susan facing a glass cliff to now watching her pull up the ladder behind her to ensure no woman can follow in her footsteps. Either Susan thinks a woman's place isn't in the cabinet, or she doesn't like dealing

Susan Lee also did not respond.

To an approach from Senator Claire Chandler, who sent a text message saying that she'd like to continue serving in a senior position in the shadow cabinet.

There was no reply.

Today, Susan Lee doubled down on her decision to dump or demote four of the most senior coalition women, and when asked about this today, she said she was promoting women who were younger in terms of political experience. Have a look at that strange remark.

Of course, Pete, I want to see more women, more women come into our party, and I was able to announce women who are younger in terms of their political career, and I know that they're going to do very well too.

Younger in terms of their political career. Younger is a word you only use in.

Relation to age.

So perhaps she was about to say that she was promoting younger women and realized that wouldn't be a good look. It would be be agist and would reinforce a sexist, outdated view that women have no value to society if they're too old. Now, Sarah Henderson is sixty one, Jane Hume in her fifties declared Chandler is thirty seven, just Enter Price forty four, and their.

Ages are irrelevant.

They are among the most high profile and high performing coalition women. When Parliament returns, it'll be an embarrassing site to see these talented women relegated to the backbench instead. Susan Lee has leapfrogged the likes of Giselle Captirian, who is only three votes ahead of Teal Nicolette Bowl in the recount. She might not even get into parliament if she does, she'll be on the front bench, but of

I just don't think you take on an empowered and dominant labor party by leaving some of your best talent in the change room and giving the factional bobber boys are reward.

And She's right.

While there are a few good appointments, this is at best a meteorocre team. It's shocking to think that Susan Lee's shadow cabinet now has fewer women than either Scott Morrison's or Peter Dutton's had. Dutton had ten women in his shadow cabinet and Morrison had eight, the same number Lee now has, and only a third of Lee's shadow cabinet are women. This is despite the fact she's often publicly argued for years that we need more women in

I want to say right here and now, we need more women in our party. We need more women in our party organization, We need more women in.

This party room.

As I said quite some time ago, I do want to see a fifty percent target for women. We need a fifty percent target by twenty twenty five. That's my view. And how we get there, of course, will vary where you encourage young women to get into the party, where you mentor them successfully, where you give them a platform to talk about their ideas which might not be your ideas, and you have a system that really strongly supports them.

So the woman who argued for a fifty percent target now has only a third of her shadow cabinet being women. This is a case of clear hypocrisy. Now that she's in a position to elevate more women. Instead, she dumped or demoted for and has presided over the lowest number of women in cabinet or shaw cabinet for the Liberal Party since twenty nineteen.

And by was she hammered on this today?

Yeah, let's look at your team. You demotioned senior women, Hume Henderson Price, Why was that a good idea given that, as you know, your party has problems with women. Let's move to some of the decisions you've made on that shadow cabinet for a party that's trying to rebrand itself with Australian women, why so few women in the shadow cabinet.

Look, forty percent of my shadow ministry is made up of women, and across that party were more broad as many as under plays.

Not as many under the former leader cut So that was on Channel seven and the ABC and she didn't have a better time over on Channel nine.

You need to win back women as well, they said Peter Dutton had a problem with female voters. But now you've deliberately reduced the number of women in shadow cabinet.

Of my shadow ministry are women.

Of course, I want to see more women in our party room every single day and.

Reduced me as leader.

That does well, Carl, as a woman leader.

That sends a signal to women.

You champion for more women in parliament, you championed more in cabinet, but at the first chance you promoted men and dumped women. How is that anything other than personal?

That's commentary, Karl, and it's simply not.

How I see it.

As I said, Shadow Ministry.

It's great women.

He did a good job there. Karl Stefanovic.

Now Susan Leoso told Paul Murray last night that just sent to Nampa, jimper Price was very happy with her demotion to shadow Cabinet.

I spoke to her before this appointment, Paul. She's very pleased to take it on.

Pleased.

I mean that's taking spin to the next level, because three hours earlier, Ja told Peter Kredlin that actually she was very disappointed and that the shadow cabinet team wasn't appointed based on Marria at all.

I'll be honest to say that there are probably some appointments that have not been predicated on.

Experience or merit.

But this is what this is the team we have to work with, that we're working.

With going forward.

And you know, I mean, I'm not going to lie and say that I'm not disappointed that I'm not within cabinet itself.

And this is the problem with politicians like Susan Lee. Center gave an honest answer she's disappointed with the demotion, as she should be, and instead of Acknowledgingcenter's public position, Susan Lee lies and insists Center's very happy and a politician junior to Center, Kerry Anne Little, has now been promoted to shadow Cabinet. So the message it sends is that Jacenter, one of the top performers in the coalition, is not valued by Susan Lee.

It sends the message that.

Talent and merit are not the key drivers of this shadow cabinet team. And those involved behind the scenes in this shadow cabinet include Alex Hawk, who was Scott Morrison's numbers man, also Lee's chief of staff, Dean Shakha, and I'm told Susan also sought advice from Scott Morrison.

Now I put all.

Of this and I've reported here to Susan Lee's office, and her spokesman told me tonight that the Opposition leader has spoken with every single one of her parliamentary colleagues several times since the election resulted.

Prior to the.

Announcement of the shadow ministry. The leader has announced a team with enormous talent and as she said this morning, every member of the party room has an important role to play. Suggestions that there were voices in the room trying to influence.

Decisions are wrong.

Now clearly Susan Lee has created even more enemies than she had before with this shadow cabinet, and that's before she's been tested against the ruthless Albanese government. Deputy leader Ted O'Bryan has been making phone calls to try and calm everyone down, but it's not working because right now Susan Lee only has the support of half the party. Three people who I believe to have voted for her, like my friend Holly Hughes, are no longer in the

The clock is ticking now.

She could have used this shadow cabinet to unite the party. Instead, she's given power to factional players devoid of talent, and in doing so has only succeeded in driving a deep

That's profit that you.

Haven't made yet and could apply if the value of your property goes up. As we know, the market goes up and down, valuations go up and down. The National Farmers Federation are warning that many farmers won't be able to.

Pay the increased tax bill.

If you were watching last night, you would have seen David Johinkey saying this.

And if it was a applied buck it is proposed to be at the start of the financial year.

Partments would have to stump up.

An increase that they have no ability to pay and essentially would put their farm at risk.

Put their farm at risk.

So do you think that there will be farms that will have to be sold over this businesses that will go under farming businesses?

Well, I have to find money somewhere.

Now.

The figure show that seventeen thousand super accounts hold farmland. Three and a half thousand of those have more than three million dollars as if life wasn't hard enough already for our farmers, with this cost of living crisis, with weather fluctuations, and now they're worried about having to sell up to meet a tax liability on increased land valuations. I mean, it's insane and quite frankly unethical.

Yet look at how heartless.

And cold the Herald's economics writer Ross Gittens is. He doesn't feel sorry for these farmers. He says, the old earn more than the young, find it easier to save and get the benefit from super sooner than the young.

I mean, what is that nonsense?

The old find it easier to save, and oh it's so unfair that they get the benefit from super sooner. Well, they had to wait to access their superannuation. They lived and worked those long years. But it gets worse, he writes, These rich people just don't want to pay more tax, and as usual, are hunting around for the best counter arguments they can find. He says, I can afford to pay it, and so can they. I mean, that's a ludicrous takers. One economist said to me today he urgently

As Keating would say, I was.

Like being flogged with a warm letters a blog with a warm letters.

Has he got up? You know?

More mold by a dead shape, more by a dead shape.

Biting criticisms from the father of superannuation against this would be highly effective. Whether it will be enough to encourage Labor to back down on their contentious policy is yet to be seen, and Robert gott Leibsen will be on the show later on to speak about this. But now let's bring in National Senator Matt Canavan and Chief economist at the Institute of Public Affairs, Adam Crichton.

Welcome to you both. Look, I want to start with the shadow cabinet now. We're going to get to net zero in a moment.

Matt.

But Matt, you ran against David little Crowd for leader and you've chosen not to be in shadow cabinet. But your friend Barnaby Joyce, your colleague Michael McCormack, were dumped. That's not the best decision to have experienced former leaders to leave them on the back bench.

Is it. Yeah, Look, Sharry, I'm probably going to disappoint you. I just don't really care too much about who's who in the zoo.

It's never knows who in the zoo.

It's putting forward the best coalition teams so that they can win against out in the Albanize. He surely, Matt, you care about kicking the Albanezy government out and you need your best team.

I do do that. I do care about that. I do care about that show. But just on that point, as a general rule, I'm just not so sure that the lineup of the Shadow Cabinet makes that much difference. So, I mean every parliamentary and all of us have the ability to hold an executive governor account in the Senate or the House of Reps and through committee processes whatever

Against the franking credits.

Now, Tim wasn't a member of the Shadow Ministry when he did that work and took down effectively or at least a big part of the government on that issue. And so I just think all of us could focus a little bit more about that job. That's our first job, to oppose the government in the parliament. It actually doesn't matter too much. Yeah, look, the leaders matter that sort of stuff, but you know that's being done now. I support both leaders making the best best deal this they can.

Time, Adam, would you agree that there are a lot of talented players left on the backbench that this shadow cabinet hasn't been appointed based on merit in some cases?

Well, look, Showy, I think I'll probably disappoint you as well. I mean, I think you're being slightly harsh on Susan Lee. I mean, she's just appointed the people that she thinks will maximize her time in the job, like any leader does, whether they're Prime Minister or Leader of the Opposition.

She's done that.

Look, I agree it's somewhat amusing that the number of women has dropped from eleven to eight in the Shadow ministry because of course we're always you're listening to always talk about well, we always hear all this talk about the importance of women, but of course, in reality it's just rhetoric, you know, I mean, neither side actually believes in it. One vote is one vote, whether you're male or female, and that's what informs the decisions of both

Of bothers me that not many men are coming out against the fact that for senior four of the most senior coalition women have been dumped.

Matt, surely you have a view on that.

Well, look, I want a shadow ministry based on merit.

Look what I would say.

About some of my female colleagues is they definitely have done I think a very good job. I mean, Sarah Henderson did a great job as Education spokesperson. But look, some people have to be appointed and sometimes some people will miss out. There are talented people right across the Liberal and National parties, So I do do feel for Sarah, for Claire, for Jane. All of contributed enormously to our party in the last few years. But they'll continue to contribute.

You can have lots of fun and still achieve a lot.

I feel like I've achieved a lot of the last few years as a Senator for Queensland, so it's a great honor to have this role. It's a yes, an even greater honor sometimes to be in a ministerial role. But let's be real here. We've got thumped at the election and we're talking about shadow ministers not ministers, so there's a big, big difference.

It's a big difference, of course, But the issue is you need the absolute top fighting coalition team to have even a chance at cloring back the thirty plus seats that is ahead of the coalition to try and regain the ability to govern, and that's not going to happen with the current team. Right, Let's turn to net zero because I know you're desperate to speak about that, Matt. Now there are liberals speaking out saying that net zero

Have a look.

I am personally optimistic that we will continue to observe the net zero goal. It is important for an electorate like mine where environment is very highly valued. But more importantly it's very important in the minds of the people. In Australia's metropolitan seats. There are eighty eight of them, and my side of politics only now holds eight.

If you ever are questioned them, you know you're abhorrent. You know you want the kidding sinstantaneously combus. It's guarded in guilt and we suck this rubbish up and we should be turning around saying no, no, do net zero.

Adam.

This is clearly going to divide the Liberal Party and potentially the coalition.

Yes, look but I think I think if the Coalition opposes it, they're just going to be getting ahead of public opinion. I know net zero is still popular because most people think it means pollution, but of course it's got nothing to do with pollution.

It's a great slogan net zero.

But as energy prices keep rising ten percent year after year after year, I think more people are going to realize that it is because of the changes in the energy market that the government is leading, so you know, and it's I mean, you look at New Zealand, you look at the UK Tories, you look at Northern Territs in Queensland, you look at the US and China and India, I mean, all these jurisdictions are really not paying any attention to net zero, and it's just somewhat laughable that Australia,

So I think it's eventually going to change. I mean, I don't like betting.

I'm not a gambling man, but I would certainly bet that in the next six years net zero will be dumped, as you know, as a target by both major parties.

There's no question in my mind.

It's hard to imagine the Labor Party dumping it, Matt.

You know, it's tough to Matt.

It seems like the Nationals might move to a position where they're against net zero, but the Liberal Party, and especially with the Moderates in charge you just heard Zoe McKenzie, would be I can't see a unified position from the Liberals.

How do you think this is going to play out?

Well, look, I just hope we have a debate, Shari. We've never had a debate on net zero in the joint party room. Never Scott Morrison adopted as a captain's pick the captain's call, and it hasn't turned out to be a very good one, at least from electoral perspective. We've been beaten twice, the last time the worst results

I know because this electorate.

Says this, and that person says that opinions can change and they're fickle. And you can see in all of the polling that nobody wants to pay hardly anything to reach net zero. In fact, there was some polling release just two weeks ago which showed that ninety three percent of Australians would pay less than two dollars a week to meet net zero missions by twenty to fifty. And so, with all respect to my colleagues on this issue, we are now the odd man out politically.

Across the world.

There is no center right party political party in the western world now there's as adopted net zero as their platform in the English speaking world, I should say, not one. In the UK the Conservators have dropped it, the Republicans have never been on board obviously, in the US, in Canada they've dropped it, or in New Zealand they've just

Our own jobs first. That's not the way to go about these debates.

A long way to run on that, and Matt, that is clearly going to be your focus moving forward as well. Just before we go, you know, we often speak on this show about how long the friendship or the bromance between Donald Trump and Elon Musk, how long it was.

Going to last.

Well, Elon Musk today confirmed that he's leaving the Trump administration.

He shared this post.

He said, as my scheduled time as a special government employee comes to an end, I'd like to thank Trump for the opportunity to reduce wasteful spending, et cetera, et cetera. But he also criticized the president's One Big Beautiful Bill legislation, which he says will increase budget deficits. And he said in a television interview how disappointed he was with the spending.

Adam, what's gone on here behind the scenes?

And is this not a great thing that we're not going to have Elon Musk's influence anymore on Donald Trump.

Well, I mean to be honest, I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner because this has come a huge personal financial costs for Elon Musk being associated with Donald Trump. There's been massive falls in profits at Telstra, a massive decline in the share price, and that's all largely because of the association with Donald Trump. And you know, his central point is right that you know, this bill before Congress is basically just more of the same. The debt ceiling

So so I do feel you know, I do feel sympathy.

I think he's realized that, you know, politics is largely rhetoric, and there's huge inertia in government and it's very, very hard to change the direction of the US government. So I understand why he's leaving. I think it's probably good for both of them. Franklin, and at least it hasn't been a spectacular blow up as yet.

As yet, wait and see whether that happens, right. Matt Canavan, Adam Crichton great to see you as always.

Now still to come, Alban Ezy goes on the attack instead of listening to a think tanks warning about defense his glass jaw yet again on Show Plus Will Cross Live to Chris Kenny and Israel after his meeting with President Hertzog today, Israel wants Albin Easy to actually visit instead of spreading misinformat.

That's after this quick break.

Well, Israeli President Isaac Hertzog has invited Alban Easy to visit Israel. The invitation comes after the Prime Minister here labeled Israel's actions outrageous this week and he falsely accused Israel of blocking food trucks into Gaza and a lot to say about that on Monday Night Now. Paul Kelly in The Australian writes that the deterioration in Australia Israel

Yeah, good to talk to you, Sharry. I'm coming to you from the Golden Heights. This is about one hundred meters from the Syrian border. Here offer to my left another front that Israel has had to come fun in recent decades and particularly in the rest of nineteen months.

Yes, that meeting.

Israeli President Isaac Herzog yesterday afternoon was a fascinating one. It was generally speaking on background, and we spoke in detail about the challenges confronting Israel and also the way it's getting so much criticism from the international commit and the President was very frustrated with Australia's attitude, and it's important for people to understand this.

The invitation is important.

He made the point in this meeting that now we're going on the record. I want this invitation to be on the record so that we could report it and

It's not good.

You would understand that as much as anyone, Sharry, it doesn't look prospective. But nonetheless, if Alberizi really wants to be constructive and informed, he should come here.

Absolutely, and not just the anti Israel sentiment. But Chris, throughout your meetings this week, has there been a sense of shock also at the anti Semitism that's arisen in Australia, which I believe is inextricably linked to the government's anti Israel attitude.

Yeah, you're right, and people do raise it with us, probably not as much as they have done in the past, but it has been mentioned on what's going on in Australia.

Haven't you been?

Your government and your authority has been stronger against anti semitism in Australia. What's behind it? Why you're seeing it? There's been those sorts of those sorts of comments, but primarily there's so many people who have spoken to government officials and other non government agencies and citizens have talked

So it's a very clear theme here.

It is sad, but the people, the people Link says, you would understand Sharia are still very strong. I've bumped into many many Australians here and many Israelis who know Australia and have visited there, and they're all over this country and they want to keep the relationship strong. But at a government to government level, it's in a really bad place.

It is, indeed, Chris just here in Australia. The ABC issued a correction to their repetition of that inaccurate claim that fourteen thousand babies were at risk of starvation in Gaza in a forty eight hour period. Now the ABC only corrected this today, it's a full week after the BBC issue to correction. This is typical of the misinformation that we're seeing from the public broadcaster. It's typical of the bias that we're seeing from mainstream media outlets.

Yeah, this is disgraceful from the ABC showy, absolutely disgraceful.

This was a blatant lie.

The moment it was uttered by the United Nations, you could see it was an utter lie. I corrected this on my program with some analysis of the facts a full week ago. The ABC ran with it and don't correct it till a week later.

This is all of a pattern.

You know, the media reports that Israel kills five hundred people in a hospital. It's a lie, But the retractions and corrections never get the coverage that the.

Origin the original allegations get.

And in this case, the ABC and many other arms of the media around the world, it should be said, went with this claim that fourteen thousand babies would die in forty eight hours.

Now a moment's thought. If you know anything about.

The situation and the numbers of people and Allied and the medical situation.

Do you know anything about that?

You know that whole clear preposterous implaus But when you drew into it and ask about it, of course they referred that the only basis for it, the only slim basis for it, was a report on humanitarian issues that said if the war goes on for another year, when in the worst case scenario, if aid doesn't improve, there could be fourteen thousand cases of malnutrition in children up to.

Five years of age.

This is reported as fourteen thousand babies in two days time.

It is lassable and it is so damaging.

Chris love having you joined us from Israel.

Look forward to seeing you when you're back, and of course stay safe, good travels.

Thanks Charry.

Still to come.

Poor Keating is set to launch a campaign against Jim Chalmers tax and unrealized capital gains. Robert Gottleibsen will join me shortly with more details and straight after the break. Our defense is not up to fighting condition, but alban Easy instead attacks the Messenger.

Karen Milner and David Gazzard next.

Well, the leading security think tank has exposed the grim reality of our defense force. The head of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.

Justin Vassi had this.

Warning, spending a lot of money, as we should on these exquisite capabilities that are likely to come to fruition in the late twenty thirties twenty forties, like the Orchest submarines. But with the world as dangerous as it is, so many national security threats, he's a risk that we have a gap in the short term.

Albinizi listening to these smart minds, the brilliant analysts.

Instead of taking their advice, he went on the attack.

Well that's what they do, isn't it. Asp I mean, seriously, they need to, I think have a look at themselves as well, and the way that they conduct themselves and debates. We've had a defense strategic review, We've got considerable additional investment going into defense.

The way they conduct themselves in debates. Does that mean don't criticize my government in a debate. I mean, this is a matter of public interest whether we can defend our nation. Albanzi shouldn't be attacking the think tank. And by the way, in his comments about someone from a former government, he's referring to Justin Bassi, who used to work as chief of staff to Foreign Minister Maurice Payne.

Absolutely, Chari it is Albow's glass jaw, and the inconvenient truth of someone talking about the fact that our defense capability required a virgin pilot to bring in Chinese live far exercise. I mean, our defenses are not what they should be, especially in an era where things are just so dangerous on our doorstep. And sure Ucus is great, but why not point out the fact, as Aspy has, that we've got a big issue between now and ten years time and we need to be able to defend

Absolutely, especially when it comes to defense.

David, this is the time we want to ask me.

I can think of really only two influential think tanks that have really punched above their weight over the last half decade. One would be the left of center Australian Institute, and the other is ASPY. And of course, because it's been effective, because it's been influential, it has got up the nose of the Chinese. And let's not forget here that one of the fourteen egregious demands the Chinese made of the Australian government was to defund ASPI exactly for

And where we're strong. At its time we need it.

Very good points, at excellent points that I want to ask you both as Bomber Political Insights, about the shadow cab that was just announced yesterday afternoon. And we've been reporting on how senior women were demoted. You know, other talented people like Dave Sharma weren't given great jobs very junior Olds Cameron, you know, as a veteran insider. You both know how ministries are put together. I mean, Cameron, this is flawed. This is a failure, isn't it.

Well I'd think so, and I think you've actually got to give them a bit of a chance. I mean, you know, James Patterson going to finance. I think it's an excellent move. James McGrath from you know, from Queen's a's very good. Zoe McKenzie coming into the out of ministry. So there's some young talent coming through as well, and Julian Lessa coming back in as well, So I think.

There's some good things.

Look, the reason is that Jane Hume wasn't dump because she's a woman.

She's dump because she's a dud.

She had work from home, she had Chinese spies, she cost seed after seed after seat. So no, if you're a dud, you've got to be deleted and gone. It's not about gender, it's about capacity and competence.

David, what do you think?

I mean?

Would you agree that Susan Lee has made task even harder after enraging so many people?

It is a tough thing forming a cabinet or a shadow, Well, it's always going to be a shadow cabinet when the numbers are as low as they are, and you've just lost a whole range of talented people, but also you've had a very close run leadership battle, so the numbers are delicately poised. So you have to make a choice between a whole range of things, representation in the states,

Be honest, the problem. That's the problem.

And then you've got to also balance out who are the people who voted for you that you want to reward and who are the people that voted for your opponent that you don't want to give too much ago, Although you've got to keep some in the ten. So this was always going to be a fraud exercise. I do think there is a crop of young people within the coalition's ranks that deserve a go. Some that didn't

I mean, in many respects, the generational changes happened anyway because so many people lost their seats, so there's hardly anyone left Camerin. I'm interested in your thoughts on Susan Lee as a leader. I know you know you're being polite and you say let's give it a go or the benefit of the doubt.

But in terms of actually.

Winning against Albanezi, who none of us here think is any good.

Is she the coalition's best option, Well.

I don't think.

I don't think the opposition from now is going to defeat Anthony Albanize. The voters will get out Anthony Albanize well before the opposition does. And that's the point I made in a column the other week about Starmer. Ten months in, he's running scared a huge majority, but the voters have turned on him midterm, and so I think that's what happens first, is is if Albanie lose the support of voters, the opposition gets played back into the game. And let's not forget the fact that that even under

Nevertheless, let's still.

Need a strong and I was saying sorry to interrupt, but you still need a strong, incredible opposition leader.

Otherwise, as in the case with.

Victoria, where Victorians are so frustrated with their state government, but if there's a weak opposition, they've got no one to turn to.

Look, as I say, I think he give susan ago, see how she goes, give us some clear air. Peter Dutton had that blessing from his cabinet after the Morrison loss. So I think she deserves the same chance. And yes, if she fails, she needs to go. But if not, give her a go.

All right, Cameron, David, great to see you again.

Now coming up next, Paul Keating is set to launch a campaign against Labour's tax on unrealized capital gains. Robert got Leibsen has the story and he joins me after this break, welcome back, Well Australia's a legendary economics reporter. Robert got Leibsen writes that former Prime Minister Paul Keating is white hot with anger over the superttas and plans to tax unrealized capital gains.

He writes that it goes.

Against our highly prized to prenuation scheme that Keating established and got leaps In reports that in due course the former Prime Minister and Treasurer will go public with a withering blast against charmers, more intense than any ever directed to a cabinet minister. Now, please to say, Robert joins me. Now, Robert, good to see you. Look, you have written amazing columns on this topic, and you're saying that you're concerned that

I don't know. I obviously should do that, but.

When politicians are locked into a situation that's stupid and they've got it wrong, they find it very, very difficult to change. And I can't focast that. All I can say is that the damage they're going to do to the economy and the damage they will particularly do to our capital raising ability is it will be severe.

Now, as I just read there, you're reporting that both Paul Keating and Bill Kelty are concerned about this legislation. What are their main concerns?

Well, you have to understand what Paul Keating was trying to do with superannuation, and that was to have a retirement savings pool of great magnitude. But all people of different levels of well and income participated in this exercise. Now what he now knows is that about a third of the funds, that's the self managed funds, won't put up with a tax on unrealized gains and they will take their savings elsewhere in due course. And so what will happen is exactly what he didn't want to happen.

And you're hearing that Keating's as you write white hot with anger about this is understated.

Imagine how would you feel if you'd said up this vision and you got it there and it was now producing it and a young treasure turns out and he says, I'm going to do something really tough on your movement. Can you imagine I heard you play some of feetings and remarks, or just double those because here is attacking the whole vision of this form of treasure.

And he's been active, he's been speaking to some of the industry supervines.

Is that right, well, yes, of course they probably ring him up. The thing is that everybody knows this is silly and the only you'd have to think charmers must think now at two. But it's as I said you before, it's very hard for politicians to understand that. Just take you back a little bit as to what they are doing. You remember, we agreed it roughly as a community that for for income on superannomation balances above three million, it should be taxed at thirty percent instead of fifteen percent.

It makes sense.

Instead of that, young Jim, what he did was he said, oh, no, I'm going to have a new tax. I'm going to in that second fifteen percent, I'm going to tax you on your unrealized gains. Almost know when the world has ever done that. And he then said, the treasury, look, estimate how much I'll get, and try gave in that estimate, but of course they didn't get count the fact that a lot of people are going to leave supernuation and in fact the estimates will be wrong over two fo years.

Yeah, and now as you're reporting that this could be an unprecedented campaign against the Albanesi government.

That's united. You know you write this, it's united parts of.

Industry, Superannuation, the union movement and the business community, a combination without precedent. And if the likes of Poor Keating and Bill Kelty as well get involved, then perhaps the government will be forced to reconsider this because this will be an argument against it. I mean, based absolutely on fact, but one that there's no question the opposition has not had the ability to prosecute Robert.

I've loved having you on the show.

Thank you so much for your time and look forward to hopefully having you on again to talk about this topic as it progresses. And thanks everyone for your company this week. I'll see you on Monday at eight o'clock. Have a lovely weekend, and here's calebont