Sharri | 28 January - podcast episode cover

Sharri | 28 January

Jan 28, 202549 minSeason 1Ep. 1518
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Episode description

Sharri shares her exclusive on-the-road experience with NSW police division 'Strike Force Pearl' in their efforts to curb antisemitism. Plus, China's new version of ChatGPT raises serious questions, and new top intel on the origins of COVID.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Live on Sky News. This is Sharry Good Evening.

Speaker 2

Welcome to the show.

Speaker 3

Coming up tonight, my exclusive on the road with police Strike Force Pearl, set up to investigate the wave of terror on our streets.

Speaker 2

I'll bring you that in just a moment.

Speaker 3

Also on the show, China's new version of chat GPT Cosfort Taiwan to be returned and at malfunctions when questioned on the persecution of the wigas James Patterson would join me a bit later, Plus the top secret intelligence the CIA holds on the origins of COVID. I'll speak with COVID investigator David Asher, and tonight I'll be joined by Sophie Ellsworth who'll show us how the world leaders commemorated at Ashwitz Berkenal. But first tonight, let's start with this

very special report. For fifteen months, Australians have been bewildered and angry as racism, hatred and violence exploded in our country. We've begged politicians and law enforcement for action as the fear and the attacks escalated.

Speaker 2

I sat down for an in depth.

Speaker 3

And exclusive interview with New South Wales Police Force Counter Terrorism and Special Tactics Commander Assistant Commissioner Mark Walton Strike Force Pearl also took me out on the road. Have a look at this report and tell me what you think about how the police are handling this.

Speaker 2

Here it is.

Speaker 4

We all want to know why this is occurrent.

Speaker 5

We'll catch that.

Speaker 3

Do you concede there should have been action taken that much? From the vile threats against Jews at the Opera House, to the torching of cars and hate field graffiti in Sydney's East to attacks on the homes of Jewish leaders and even the firebombing of a childcare center. Assistant Commissioner Mark Walton is tasked with bringing this scourge of criminal anti semitism in New South Wales under control. Doesn't seem to be escalating to you. It started with anti Semitic

rhetoric on the streets. Now we're seeing vandalism, cars torched, even homes threatened.

Speaker 4

We've really seen an escalation since October last year. From October October twenty four, yes, there's been a compressed number of incidents, which is extremely concerning both to the police and the community in the community at large.

Speaker 3

For Australia's Jewish community, the fear being felt now started at the Opera House after October seven, compounded by police failures to either stop the hate field protest or make any arrests. Was it a mistake by New South Wales police to let the Palestinian activists freely march on the Opera House and chant antisemitic slogans, sprout hatred against Jews, and burn Israeli flags on a night that was meant to reflect solidarity with the one thy two hundred Israelis who'd been killed.

Speaker 4

Yeh, Look, it's really regrettable and I understand why the community remain very upset about that occurring. But at short notice, when large groups of people occur, sometimes compromises occur in the interests of public safety. Yes, absolutely, with the benefit of hindsight. Do we want that image of that protest

happening on the Opera House? Clearly not. But I'm not a Monday night quarterback second guessing all the pressures that the police were under at short notice to respond what was clearly a very volatile event there with that gathering.

Speaker 3

But I think when we look at where this hatred started and why the message was sent that antisemitism would be tolerated, it did begin that night when there were no arrests when there were flags burned, this hatred arose. Do you concede there should have been action taken that night?

Speaker 4

We should always act if we have the evidence against individuals to prosecute them. We're getting into a job that

I didn't have direct involvement with or knowledge of. As I sit here today, what I can guarantee is through my command area who manage the hate and engagement portion of the police, every time a passage of information or a complaint has come through alleging hate speech symbols, if they hadn't automatically triggered action by the police, the coordination of the assessment of that information has occurred through my unit.

It has gone to our operational legal advice area, and on each occasion it's been determined that it hasn't met the threshold for the law that's applicable.

Speaker 3

So can I just stop you right there though you know you're talking about it not meeting the threshold for the law, and action can't be taken, no arrest are made. But the ultimate picture then is that hate speech has been tolerated on the streets of Sydney. As the Premier said this week, violence begins with words. Hate speech has been tolerated. This should never have happened.

Speaker 4

Words are important. I think the azo DG has often said awful but lawful. The police will prosecute when there are is sufficient evidence to do.

Speaker 3

So, so the law needs to be changed so that you can get the conviction.

Speaker 4

These are really complex legal and political questions.

Speaker 3

But it's not that complex. If someone's chanting hatred towards Jews on the streets of Sydney, as they were on the steps of the Upper House.

Speaker 2

Where's the Jews? F the Jews?

Speaker 3

This is hate speech and anti semitism. So this has been tolerated in Sydney by authorities.

Speaker 2

This was a mistake, surely you can see that.

Speaker 4

I don't agree that we've tolerated it, but by not taking action, that is tolerating and taking action where we're able to is what we will do.

Speaker 3

Hate speech has been tolerated on the streets of Sydney. People who sprout hatred towards Jews haven't been arrested. The hate preachers haven't been arrested.

Speaker 4

You talk about words matter and semantics. As a journalist, you are well aware of one word can be interpreted in many ways depending on the context. And whilst I find the things that you're talking about as offensive, they need to meet illegals.

Speaker 2

Prayers, the Jews, f the Jews.

Speaker 3

That is hate speech, that is racism, that can't be interpreted in any other way.

Speaker 4

I'm not arguing that it's hate speech but doesn't meet a criminal threshold for the police to prosecute. That's the question police need to determine.

Speaker 3

But then doesn't that need to be changed so that racism hasn't become normalized in Sydney, Australia.

Speaker 4

And as I told you earlier, I'll leave that to the politicians.

Speaker 3

Strengthening Strike Force Pearl is the result of both police action and political pressure to tackle anti Semitism.

Speaker 5

And we got to have a very high policing presence.

Speaker 3

I've been given exclusive access to join the Strikeforce unit for the night patrolling the suburbs living in fear of more anti Semitic attacks. Superintendent, nice to see you. Nice to see you, So tell us where are we headed tonight?

Speaker 5

Tonight we're going out into Sydney and in central Mentillpoltan, Sydney and out into Southwest Sydney to have a look at the places of worship, businesses, schools, and things like that to make sure people are safe.

Speaker 3

So tonight, police officers do have photographs of some perpetrators that you're looking for in relation to crimes already committed, some of the anti Symitic crimes already committed.

Speaker 5

When you have a look down the alleyways and things, if it's the right or yeah, a car, there was somebody sitting in the car.

Speaker 2

What's the motivation here?

Speaker 4

Look, I actually think it's a good word to describe it is hate. They are career criminals that hate just about everything other than themselves. They hate their own lives, they hate our way of life, and they act out accordingly.

Speaker 3

Are they doing this of their own volition or are they being paid to do it?

Speaker 4

It's unclear. It's likely that there is some influence to cause some of these people to carry out these acts, and that's an important line of inquiry with our investigation. It is the thing that is my priority because quite naturally, we all want to know why this is occurring.

Speaker 3

In a way, it does give comfort that police are making arrests. Ten people have now been arrested. But you're sitting here and saying you have no idea, who's ultimately behind it, who's paying them? That is still a serious concern if.

Speaker 4

Something's keeping me up at night. It's just that we need to try and determine what the motive is. If we have people that are coordinating and directing these actions, why are they doing that.

Speaker 3

The attack on Alex Rivchin's farmer home, he's a well known Jewish community leader. The Premier Chris Mins told me this week that he believed that was targeted. Do you agree with that and if so, does this mean that high profile members of the Jewish community have reason to feel concerned for their own security.

Speaker 4

I have little doubt that that was a targeted attack. It would be foolish to suggest otherwise.

Speaker 3

So very succinctly is their reason for high profile members of the Jewish community not to feel safe.

Speaker 4

It's fair to say everyone should be concerned about what's been occurring, and those that have a profile would naturally feel more vulnerable.

Speaker 6

We're just meters away from where the recent.

Speaker 7

Dover heights at Tapka, and now the police controlling and doing surveillance on the eastern suburbs to make sure that there are no more anti Semitic attacks.

Speaker 3

So Superintendent We're in Dover Height, just meters from.

Speaker 2

Here was the attack on Alex Ripchen's former home.

Speaker 3

Polair is doing surveillance in this area and right across the decent suburbs. Is that right.

Speaker 5

They've got an amazing capability so when if something happens and they're in the sky, they will find them. They will direct police to where those people are and we will catch them.

Speaker 2

Incredible, so we can feel very safe with this in the.

Speaker 4

Yes, very safe.

Speaker 3

It is positive action from the police and should be welcomed. But it comes in stark contrast to the policing of many pro Palestinian protests. This one outside the Great Synagogue in Sydney was allowed to continue and the only arrest was that of a lone pro Israel supporter. How can it be that a single Jew is arrested instead of the hundreds of aggressive pro Palestinian protesters.

Speaker 4

I'm not involved, nor do I have direct knowledge of those, but there's a requirement for police to deal with public safety, and I suspect the decision was made in the interest of public safety of all the people there, to try and avoid an escalation of conflict in those circumstances.

Speaker 2

Morally, that's wrong.

Speaker 3

Isn't it to arrest the single Jew rather than deal with the rabid mob.

Speaker 8

Yeah?

Speaker 4

Look, cops have got to be practical. They've got to make decisions on the spot. They don't have the benefit of hindsight and video review and lawyers telling them down the track.

Speaker 3

But you don't need all of that to see that there's an angry mob chanting hateful things and one Jew holding an Israeli flat.

Speaker 4

Yeah. Look, I think I've said enough on the one.

Speaker 3

We're here outside Marubra Synagogue, which is just down the road from the childcare center that was firebombed a week ago, and this is now an area where police are focusing on. They're doing regular surveillance to make sure everything's safe. This is a wave of domestic terror, isn't it.

Speaker 4

Look it's terror, but is it terrorism? So everything that we investigate, we gather the evidence, and if there's a potential for terrorism charges, they will be considered and prosecuted.

Speaker 3

Have any of the instances so far the anti Semitic attacks been labeled by police terrorism offenses?

Speaker 6

Why?

Speaker 4

Because, as I've said, we need the evidence to meet the standards. The proofs that are involved in those terrorism offenses.

Speaker 3

The Jewish community is being terrorized. There is an ideological element to it. The graffiti that's anti Semitic, the swastik is So why isn't it being considered terrorism offensive?

Speaker 4

I didn't say it wasn't being I'm saying it's terror. But we then it's another thing to move to a terrorism offense.

Speaker 3

In terms of sentencing, we saw a judge give a ten month sentence for one of the perpetrators of the bondei Arsen attack. It must be very disappointing for you when police got the effort of tracking down these people only to have a light ten month sentence.

Speaker 4

I probably have a much firm of you on on how we should punish and deter then what we often see as an outcome.

Speaker 3

So we're at a Jewish school, Now, what sort of things do you look for?

Speaker 9

Any abnormality, anything out of the ordinary, especially people hanging around, suspecious cars, vehicles, stuff like that, and also just looking into the venue to see of anything out of the ordinary that's in there.

Speaker 3

I mean, while we've just been standing here, I've seen two police cars drive past. So it does give you a lot of confidence that there are police on the street patrolling the areas at the moment.

Speaker 9

Yeah, definitely one hundred percent. Where tart to these areas a lot. So you know, just maintain that public safety and give the community bit of resurances that they're out there.

Speaker 3

We just want to go back to the broader concept again. If the premiere has said that the violence begins with words, if you've acknowledged the same, we all acknowledge people don't immediately commit a violent attack begins with words, It begins with a feeling of anger towards the Jewish community.

Speaker 2

Then instead of police stepping.

Speaker 3

In when it's escalated to the point where there's a wave of violent attacks across the city, wouldn't it be better to nip it in the bud right at.

Speaker 4

The start, so long as we have an appropriate offense to deal with. And look, I'm know constitutional lawyer at all, but a foundation of the Australian constitution is a freedom of speech. And I think this is where it becomes very complex that things that are being said, some people will say they have a right to express an opinion. You and I might find that offensive and others may not. It's the law, the league, the whole legal system that we need to need to rely upon and if the

law needs to change. The premiers on record as to considering that.

Speaker 3

It's clear police are putting enormous resources into fighting this wave of violent crime targeted at.

Speaker 2

The Jewish community.

Speaker 3

They're doing it from the air, on the ground, foot, patrols taking every effort.

Speaker 2

To try and keep the community safe.

Speaker 3

The police are throwing resources at it, and yet still the attacks are happening. We had two in the past week. What's your message to everyone.

Speaker 4

We're locking them up, We're coming to get them and we will. We will resolve this current threat.

Speaker 6

All right.

Speaker 3

Well, Shadow Home Affairs Minister James Patterson is on my show tonight and I'm going to speak to him about what we just saw about the messages we heard.

Speaker 10

From the police.

Speaker 3

Are they doing enough? Does he think the law needs to change? So his reaction is coming up. And also on the show tonight, Don't Forget COVID Investigator, a top COVID investigator for the US State Department. He details what type of top secret intelligence the CIA has in its possession. That's all to come, but first I want to turn to a story that made Global News today Deep Seek Now the space race between Russia and America defined the sixties.

Speaker 2

Now it's the.

Speaker 3

AI tech race which will define the next decade. And this time there was between China and America. There's been a global frenzy today as a Chinese artificial intelligence company became the most downloaded free app on Apple's iPhone store in the US. It's called deep Seek and basically it's the Chinese version of chat GPT, and if you believe the hype, which is almost certainly exaggerated, it's faster and cheaper and even better than similar American AI tech. Now.

President Donald Trump today said this is a wake up call for America can tech.

Speaker 11

The release of deep Seek AI from a Chinese company should be a wake up call for our industries that we need to be laser focused on competing to win because we have the greatest scientists in the world. Even Chinese leadership told me that, well, this is very unusual when you hear a deep Seek, when you hear somebody come up with something. We always have the ideas, we're always first.

Speaker 3

Yeah, this is big news, and it's not only a wake up call for the tech sector, but there's a whole can of worms about what's being censored on this app that, as I said, is now number one in

the US. Our sky News digital team has revealed that the AI deep Seek malfunctioned when asked about the persecuted minority group the Wigas, which China forces into slave labor, and Deep Seak also gave an initial answer about the group's history where they spoke about its culture and they did admit controversies surrounding the Chinese government's treatment of the Wigas, and.

Speaker 10

That's what you're seeing on the screen now.

Speaker 3

But then it scrapped that answer completely and it asked the user to search for something else. So the message that came up was sorry, that's beyond my current scope.

Speaker 10

Let's talk about something else.

Speaker 3

That's about the Wigas extraordinary, that is real censorship now.

Speaker 2

Then deep seek.

Speaker 3

App was also asked by our Sky News digital journalists about Australian journalist Cheng Lay. She's now my colleague here at Sky News. She was imprisoned in China on bogus spying charges before she was released back to her family last year. But when asked about her, Deep Seek said, and I'm quoting now. As of my last update in October twenty twenty three, there has been no official confirmation of.

Speaker 10

Cheng Lei's release.

Speaker 3

And when Deep Seak was asked whether Taiwan is independent, the app said, and I'm quoting here, any discourse on Taiwan's independence is a serious challenge to China's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and it will not be recognized by the international community. And as you know, there are concerns that China is planning to invade Taiwan in the coming years.

So this app, along with the Chinese Ai tech space, and as it continues to get bigger and explode, there are going to be serious concerns about censorship and free speech because it is being used by Americans.

Speaker 10

Now.

Speaker 3

The news of Deep six surge shocked America, especially the business sector. And have a look at the impact it had on the closest US rival, Navidia, which was the most valuable company on America's stock market just.

Speaker 2

A day ago.

Speaker 12

Its value plunged of almost seventeen percent. About one trillion Aussie dollars was wiped off the value of Nvidia, or six hundred billion US dollars. And just for context, BHP is worth two hundred billion Aussie dollars, So it's the equivalent of five bhps just wiped out in a couple

of hours of trading on the Nasdaq Exchange. It's all due to this new Chinese AI at chatbot called deep Seek, which was kicked off on the tenth of January, and it's now gone through a couple of different phases and is becoming very popular in America.

Speaker 3

So all in all, the Nasdaq index closed three percent lower, and in Australia our tech sector was hit as well, with some stocks falling by up to ten percent. Now, this Chinese tech deep Seek has been created by a genius described in Metea articles today as a nerdy billionaire with.

Speaker 2

A terrible hairstyle.

Speaker 3

Deep Seiek's founder, Liang wen Fang, has become somewhat of a hero in China. Deep Seek supposedly created its own an AI assistant for a far lower price, in a shorter timeframe and with fewer chips. Now these chips are powerful AI chips that are used to operate AI, and the claim is that deep Seek's AI model can.

Speaker 2

Even rationalize and reason better.

Speaker 6

Deep Seek is.

Speaker 13

The brainchild of a small group of researchers working for a Chinese head fund manager that have been able to produce technology that is on par with Open Ai and Google, even though those companies are sinking billions of dollars and years into development.

Speaker 6

Meanwhile, Deep Seak.

Speaker 2

Did it for cheaper.

Speaker 13

This is an AI model that reasons so it can do complex problem solving. It thinks through the problem essentially.

Speaker 3

So deep Seak claims it only uses two hundred and fifty chips. Eat On mascas question this, and of course we should all be skeptical about China's transparency, and we know that America had been trying to put strangleholds on chips and other technology being exported to China. Now, Trump's own tech guru, David sachs you might listen.

Speaker 2

To his podcast.

Speaker 3

He says AI is going to get even more competitive between countries, and Mark Andreson warns that this is AI's Sputnik moment, in reference to the Soviet Union's nineteen fifty seven Earth satellite launch that shocked America. In AI, China has shown that it does intend to be a serious player. There were already concerns about the risks of AI just under control of the West. Now having an nefarious player like China involved in the AI race It's just another thing to worry about.

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker 3

Still to come on the show, the CIA admits the pandemic was caused by a likely lab league. What intelligence might now be declassified. I'll speak about this with a top CO investigator and shutout Home Affairs Minister James Patterson will give his reaction to where the police are doing enough, and we'll talk about reports that Trump is set to meet with Benjamin Nettiyaho. That's after this quick break.

Speaker 2

Welcome back. Well, there have been media reports.

Speaker 3

This evening that Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanya, who is expected to meet with President Donald Trump as early.

Speaker 2

As next week.

Speaker 3

This is a start contrast with our own Prime Minister Anthony Albernizi, who was one of the only world leaders who didn't bother to visit Israel in solidarity after October seven. This also comes amid very sad news that eight of the remaining twenty six hostages who are slated to be released as part of the first phase of this hostage deal are dead.

Speaker 2

Eight are dead.

Speaker 3

Now I've told you a couple of times before. The Israel believes that Mom Scheri Bibas and her two beautiful children Kifir and Ariel are no longer alive.

Speaker 10

Well.

Speaker 3

The IDF has now publicly said that they have grave fears for the Bibas family.

Speaker 1

Sheri Beavus and her two children, and Arielle, who's will for we are extremely concerned about.

Speaker 2

It's beyond words.

Speaker 3

The families of the eight hostages who have been killed, well, they have been informed they do know if their loved ones are not alive, but they have been told to keep this information confidential. And our hearts, all of us, everyone watching, our hearts all go out to them and to all of the hostages who are still in captivity. We think of them every single day, multiple times a day.

I've thought of Kafir and Ariel, and you know, as a mum, you just can't imagine how a baby could have been dragged away by terrorists and if it's true, if what Israel believes is true, had his whole life ahead of him, just a baby. We're joining me now, is Shadow Home Affairs Minister James Patterson. James, thank you so much for your time.

Speaker 2

Look, I want to get to all the other topics, but I just want.

Speaker 10

To get your reaction to that.

Speaker 2

First of all.

Speaker 3

You know, we see the hostages being paraded around by Hermas, terrorists and Gaza. Every time there's a release, you know, the crowds come out like it's some tourist day out. They're taking photographs. I mean, and what we have here is an innocent family, if these reports are true, a mother and her two beautiful children. Israel has said publicly grave fears for their safety. James, what's your reaction to what we're seeing publicly unfold?

Speaker 1

Shary?

Speaker 14

This is yet more evidence of the total moral depravity of Hamas and why they can never be a partner for peace for Israel. As long as Hamas remains intact, and as long as they remain in charge of the Gaza strip and the people who live there, then peace is going to elude that region and all of us.

Speaker 1

And it highlights exactly why Israel.

Speaker 14

Has had to make the very difficult decisions that it has to first prosecute this war against Hamas in Gaza, to try and eliminate Hamas and its leadership, and now to engage in the most extraordinary and difficult moral dilemmas in negotiating with the terrorist organization to free the remaining hostages who may still be alive. It's remarkable any of them are alive given the conditions that they've endured now

for over a year. And it is tragic but unsurprising that babies who are kidnapped by Hamas on the seventh of October have not been able to survive that ordeal. If indeed THEOSE reports are correct.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's just terrible.

Speaker 3

I can't imagine what a nine month old baby and his four year old brother, what their life was like in those dark tunnels. It's absolutely disgusting. I can't believe we haven't heard more of a global outcry over this. That silence is unforgivable from all of those international organizations that claim to be humanitarian. James just back to Benjaminette and Yaw who we're hearing reports that he is expected

to meet with Donald Trump early next week. He could, in fact be the first foreign leader to meet with Trump since his inauguration. After overturning the ban on weapons that was imposed by Joe Biden. This meeting is yet another strong signal that under the Trump administration, Israel will have a firm friend in America.

Speaker 14

You're right, Chariot would be an enormously significant development If President Trump does make his first leader post his ignoration to meet with benjaminitt Yahu. It will be yet another signal from the Trump administration about how strongly they support the State of Israel and how they will back them in their fight against terrorists and those who sponsored those terrorists,

including the Islamic Republic of Iran. And it will demonstrate if you look across the nominations that the Trump administration has made in the national security space, they may disagree on some issues, but the one thing they united on is Israel. And I do worry about relations between Australia

and the United States. Given that the Albanesi governments, and particularly under Foreign Minister Penny Wong, wasn't even able to line up with the Biden administration on questions of Middle East policy and foreign policy, How on earth are they going to line up with the Trump administration and what consequences will that have for our bilateral relationship with our most important AI Exactly.

Speaker 3

I mean the Australia US relationship would be much better served when there are like minded leaders, and that would happen under Peter Dutton. Now you just watched my report on the police handling of the anti Semitism crisis in New South Wales different to Victoria. The Assistant Commissioner Mark Walton defended the fact that no one has been arrested for hate speech, including none of the hate preachers.

Speaker 2

Now, James, we just marked.

Speaker 3

Holocaust Remembrance Day, and isn't the lesson that the Holocaust didn't start with gas chambers. It started with racism, with words.

Speaker 2

With exclusion of Jews.

Speaker 3

So do you think there needs to be a different approach from law enforcement.

Speaker 14

Sure, there very clearly does need to be a different approach from law enforcement at the state and federal level. I give you Supwal's police credit for some things. It is clear that they are now starting to put significant resources behind Operation Perl. It's clear that they are now starting to make some arrests, and it is clear that they now realize that their initial response after the Sydney

opera house and other incidents was inadequate. And frankly I give them some credit for that because when I put similar questions to the federal police that you put to New South Wales Police, they were unwilling to concede any errors at all, let alone Victoria police, who have dismally failed in achieving any arrests. But really the burdenless rests not with police to do the best they can within the laws that they have. The burden less rest with

political leaders. It is up to us to make our laws appropriate to capture this conduct, and is up to us to make our expectations clear to police about what should and should not be a priority and where resources should be put. And it is very clear, particularly at the federal level, but also at the state level, that that political leadership has been totally absent from the last

fifteen months and from our Prime Minister down. Weakness and equivocation has been the order of the day rather than strength and moral clarity.

Speaker 1

And that is why we're in the mess that we're in.

Speaker 2

Today one hundred percent.

Speaker 3

And if police are saying, as they appeared to be saying in the interview I did, that they need stronger laws to make arrests to have conviction stick, then the politicians have to give that to them now. James Sarah Schwartz, this is the woman at the center of that awful, highly offensive Dutan's jew rant at Qut Well. She's today had an article published in The Guardian where she writes nonsense that the Coalition has.

Speaker 2

I don't even want.

Speaker 3

To read out you what she's said because it's just more of her nonsense.

Speaker 10

But James, my question to you is, firstly.

Speaker 3

How can the Guardian publish more rubbish from someone who is broadcast already such highly offensive material about Jews and who clearly doesn't represent the vast majority of the Jewish population.

Speaker 14

Well, so if we outlawed news publications publishing bad op ads, there'd be more than just The Guardian going out of business in Australia, I'm afraid. But when it comes to combating anti Semitism, Sarah Schwartz and the Jewish Council of Australia are the last people that the Coalition will be going for.

Speaker 1

For public policy advice.

Speaker 14

Because she Schortz thought it was appropriate in the middle of an anti Semitic terror crisis, when cars and homes and shops and synagogues are being firebombed, to stand up in front of an audience and mock her fellow Jews because of their political beliefs or supposed political beliefs. You're right,

this is an unrepresentative, self appointed organization. Even many progressive Jews have told me that they don't feel represented by the Jewish Council Australia or Sarah Swartz, and so the Coalition will be writing relying on the mainstream representative Jewish community organizations who have the authority and the mandate to speak for their community and have done so for decades,

rather than these self appointed leaders. I think the ABC does need to reflect on why they have given the Jewish Council Australia and Sarah Swarts such a platform over the last few months, when, as you say, it's very difficult to find anyone who believes that they actually represent the Jewish community in Australia.

Speaker 3

One hundred percent. James Patterson, you are always spot on. Really appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Now still to come, the moving stories of survival and loss, the ominous warnings from the Holocaust. Sophie Elsworth will join me a bit later, but first, a COVID investigator reveals the type of top secret intelligence held by the.

Speaker 2

CIA on the Wuhan Lab.

Speaker 10

That's after this quick break.

Speaker 2

Welcome back.

Speaker 3

As we spoke about on the show last night, the CIA has changed its position on the origin of COVID. It's sat on the fence for five years but now the Intel Agency concludes it's.

Speaker 10

A likely lableak.

Speaker 3

Now, this is an assessment they were obliged by law to make public, but they never did. It took new CIA director John Ratcliffe on day one in the job to force this assessment into the public domain. I spoke about all of this with the former head COVID investigator at the US State Department, David Asher earlier. David Asher, thank you so much for your time. The CIA has come out and said, in all likelihood, this was a lab leak. This was an assessment done under the Biden administration,

yet it wasn't released. Do you think we've seen ideology get in the way of intelligence agencies actually coming out with the facts.

Speaker 15

I don't believe the CIA ever believed it was I don't. First, I don't think they really believe it's no confidence. Secondly, I don't think the actual operations people that actually collect intelligence ever believed that this wasn't a lablique. This was a bunch of analysts who were encouraged, some people say

almost bribed. I don't think that's how it works. They were giving performance bonuses for having ridden an assessment that was basically indecisive at the very end, they having blown the whistle about five analysts, my understanding, went to US Capitol Hill and closed session in the Senate Intelligence Committee and testified they'd been politically pressured. So I don't know

the true truth on that. I don't know the analysts, but I do know the facts that we had five years ago, and we had a clear enough picture back then to have a moderate confidence. I don't know what the heck happened along the.

Speaker 3

Way, David, do you think the Trump administration should now be declassifying all intelligence that doesn't compromise human sources relating to the origin of COVID nineteen.

Speaker 15

Well, that's the law. I mean. Biden signed the law to do that, the Congress passed it. Nothing happened, I mean, which is another indication how much Biden was in the pocket of the Chinese government, something I've been writing about recently. His financial interests with the Chinese are far greater than anyone ever understood, and I think there's going to be some sort of Department of Justice investigation related to that

as well. There is a Congressional investigation going on. But I never thought the intel picture is perfect based on human intelligence, which is what the CIA has, but it was reasonably clear a based on the reaction so senior Chinese leaders that something terrible had gone wrong inside Wuhan, specifically inside on Institute Virology, and perhaps also the Wuhan

University and the CDC they shared certain programs together. We don't there are things we don't know, but based on what the CIA has come out with, I think there will be much more coming out directly. Director Ratcliffe, who you've interviewed previously, is an adamant about declassifying information or releasing information that actually it is already declassified. And then the big question is going to be signals intelligence and

how much of that gets makes its way out. Just trust me, there was a lot of it.

Speaker 3

What do you mean when you say signals intelligence that hasn't come out yet?

Speaker 15

Just picking up phone calls, picking up emails, things like that, stuff that we do every day, just messages between different people that can't comment on what they are. But it's no secret we do this most of our much of

our collections. It's actually done in all Australia as you know, so your government is fully aware, which is another reason why it really puzzled and dismayed that the Australian government, which has the same information on the sitiand level as we do, has been so passive, especially given the fact that your Prime minister originally came out and said that we had to have an investigation. It's just sort of pathetic.

Speaker 4

Yes, me.

Speaker 3

Well, it's been a change of government and the current government is pathetic. They don't care about this issue and they would never say anything to upset China even remotely.

Speaker 15

It makes two of them, and in case of the Biden administration in them, and that's a sign that we've been compromised at the highest levels exactly.

Speaker 3

Just finally, Anthony Fauci, he's been preemptively pardoned by Joe Biden. How angry does this make you? And what does Fauci still need to answer for?

Speaker 15

What does he still need to answer for? Well, why he lied to Congress like twelve times, that'd be the first thing he has the answer for. Uh, he won't be charged criminally easily. At least there is some question that he could be made an accessory to what it's called a racket racketeering charge, which is what they use

against the mob primarily and drug cartels. There was a racket between him and Francis Collins and the scientists that you reported on so incredibly like Christian Anderson and Ralph Barrick to to to engage in a cover up, and I think that that makes me angry that he would be involved in the cover up. It's a totally outrageous, unscientific thing. But Francis Collins was directly involved in that head of the National Instutse of Health, Fauchi's boss, and

he was not parted. So there's still grounds for action here, and I hope it happens. These people need to be helped held to task what they did uh their if their failures helped the Chinese get away with bloody murder globally.

Speaker 10

It's utterly outrageous.

Speaker 6

David.

Speaker 3

Your work has been incredible over the last five years, and I hope it will continue under the Trump administration as well.

Speaker 15

I hope so too. I'm certainly offering up my help to them, and so far it's been so good. So we'll see. We'll see what happens if I come formally back in the government. I haven't made a decision. I do have some opportunities to do so.

Speaker 3

All right, And that was quite actually really fascinating big news there. David Asher just said, and he was one of the top investigators. He uncovered the intelligence related to the Wuhan researchers who were the first cluster.

Speaker 2

Of the pandemic.

Speaker 3

And he's there saying that Australia collected signals intelligence crucial to this origin.

Speaker 2

So there you go, all right.

Speaker 3

After the break, we'll cross to Poland, where journalist Sophie Ellsworth has been at the eightieth anniversary of Ashwitz's liberation.

Speaker 2

Stay tuned.

Speaker 3

Survivors of the horror death camp Auschwitz have spoken about the global rise in anti Semitism at the eightieth liberation remembrance service, and they've warned that it's the same hatred that led to the Holocaust in the first place. Among the audience were world leaders, royals, politicians and seventy eight

global television networks. Not however, the ABC or SBS News Corps Europe correspondent Sophie Ellsworth was there and I spoke to her a little earlier about what it was like to be on the ground for such a moving and solemn event. Here she is, Sophie Elsworth. Thank you so much for joining us. Can you tell us a bit about what the commemorations have been like on the ground.

Speaker 6

Yeah, great to be with you, Sharry.

Speaker 16

Look an incredibly emotional moving ceremony here.

Speaker 6

That was yesterday here in Poland.

Speaker 16

We have dignitaries, world leaders, royals, many Holocaust survivors.

Speaker 6

The service lasted about two hours.

Speaker 16

Very horroring stories, two difficult, really, Sharriers.

Speaker 6

We all know to comprehend.

Speaker 16

But it wasn't a very incredible experience to be here on the ground and to hear these horrifying tragedies that so many people went through. And reminding people, Sharry, what did happen here in World War Two? And making sure that we do not forget what happened.

Speaker 3

Yeah, and we know that too many people, especially young people, don't know much at all about the.

Speaker 2

Holocaust, Sophie.

Speaker 3

Three of the Holocaust survivors gave really moving speeches, not only about their own personal stories, but they also spoke about the rise in anti Semitism.

Speaker 2

What was their message, Well.

Speaker 6

That was the underlying message here, Shari.

Speaker 16

Wasn't just the tales of the horrors that happened here at the Holocaust during the Holocaust. It was also about the rise of antisemitism. Across the world, particularly given that we have the conflict in the Middle East, and the

message was that antisemitism must be stamped out. That was the real takeaway from this, that moving beyond the commemoration, that the atrocities that happened here at the Holocaust cannot be repeated, and that this rise in anti Semitism around the world must be stamped out.

Speaker 3

Indeed, and this is the worst humanity has ever seen until of course, October seven, and then we saw similar acts of atrocities, babies being murdered and killed. But Sophie, for you personally walking through the concentration camp where more than a million Jews were murdered.

Speaker 2

Can you tell us a bit about what that was like for you?

Speaker 16

Well, Sherry, it's just really hard to comprehen and what

did happen here. We know so much about it, We've read so much about it, reminded so much of what did happen, But when you're here and seeing it with your own eyes, it really is difficult to imagine what did happen here, but incredibly moving and as you can see from behind us, a lot of these sites are very preserved, which is important so that people could come here and understand what did occur and help them understand so that this history is not a raised, this history

is not forgotten and people remember the atrocities that did take place at these concentration and extermination camps are in Europe.

Speaker 3

Alongside the survivors, there were also world leaders who came together for this eightieth commemoration of the liberation of Auschwitzer, included Ken Charles.

Speaker 10

How did they react.

Speaker 16

Well, like many many people here, Shari, people watching all around the world, very emotional. How could you not be? These stories are heart wrenching. They're too hard to even comprehend. We saw imagery of King Charles the Third very emotional during the service. He's the first British monarch to actually come here to visit this site, so that was a

very important moment as well. But you know, there's no one that would walk away from here and not have, you know, emotions running through them to understand what did take place.

Speaker 6

Here and that we must reflect on what happened.

Speaker 16

And as the messaging was at the commemoration service, Sharry, atrocities that did take place here during World.

Speaker 6

War two cannot be repeated.

Speaker 2

We know our Foreign Minister Penny Wong was there.

Speaker 3

She's described it as a deeply moving experience. But she's been supporting anti Israel policies at the United Nations and in international forums. She's been publicly extremely critic of Israel. Israel that was born out of the Holocaust, Sophie.

Speaker 6

Well Charry, that's been obviously.

Speaker 16

What has really taken attention away from her visit is all the criticism that she has received and as you know better than many people, you know, the anger and the annoyance and frustration with the Jewish community that she was the representative here and that she was perhaps the wrong person given her stance on Israel.

Speaker 6

But she was obviously very defensive of that.

Speaker 16

She was here alongside Attorney General Mark Dreyfus, who we know is Jewish, and she was saying that they were the right members of the government to be here. Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi was not here, and many would argue he should have been here because there were prime ministers and presidents from all around the world here in Poland for this very important event.

Speaker 3

Shari, it is indeed, and thank you to you, Sophie for covering it so beautifully during the World Week.

Speaker 2

Thanks so much.

Speaker 10

For joining us.

Speaker 3

And just to end the show tonight, I'm going to leave you with the words of what one survivor said at the commemoration.

Speaker 8

Our Jewish Christian values have been overshadled worldwide by prejudice, fear, suspicion and extremism, and the rampant anti Semitism that is spreading among the nations is shocking.

Speaker 2

It is indeed.

Speaker 3

Now, if you missed my report on how the police are handling antisemitism, head to the Sky News website otherwise, I'll see you.

Speaker 10

Tomorrow at eight. And here's Paul Maray

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