Sharing good evening. Will we start tonight with the breaking news that Labor Senator Fatima Payman, who defied Labor by crossing the floor to support the Greens on Gaza, will not be expelled from the party. An Albanesi spokesperson has told us that the senator says she maintains strong labor values and intends to continue representing the Western Australians who elected her as a Labor senator. There is no manated sanction in these circumstances, and previous caucus members have crossed
the floor without facing expulsion. As reflected in our amendment, the government supports the recognition of a Palestinian state as part of a peace process towards a two state solution. Now I'm going to come back to just how weak Albanesi is in a minute, but first to recap just this evening. Fatima payment has backed the Green's motion to recognize a state of palestein a move that only rewards her MUSS for its terrorism of October seven. And here she was speaking after the vote. I was not.
Elected as a token representative of diversity. I was elected to serve the people of Western Australia and uphold the values instilled in me by my late father. Today I have made a decision that would make him proud and make everyone proud who are on the side of humanity. That is a prerogative for my party. I believe that I have upheld the party ethos and called for what the party's platform has stipulated.
Now, other Labor politicians have been expelled in the past for crossing the floor, clearly an exception for Fatima Payment, and she showed utter contempt for the Prime Minister, taking aim at Albansi in her remarks. Now only thirteen Senators voted for this Greens bill payment, the Greens David Pocock and Lydia Thorpe, and the debate was ugly, with Lydia Thorpe yelling about Australia's complicity with so called genocide.
Order order.
As Senator thought, I asked you to come to order order.
Order.
Well.
Fatima Payment is now becoming well known for her anti Israel campaign at odds with official Labor Party policy. So despite Albanezy saying that the chance from the River to the Sea and into Fada had no place in Australia, Fatima refused to acknowledge that they were anti Semitic or inappropriate. This is a genocide.
I see our performatively gesture defending the oppressor's right to oppress from the revetivis Palestine will be free.
She's also praised activists who've set up encampments at universities, despite the fact they've resulted in Jewish students being harassed and intimidated. Many Jews feel unwelcome, with activists posting videos proudly online about chasing Zionists of campus, and just last week, Fatima Payman wrote an opinion piece in Al Jazeera where she called for Palestinian state without once mentioning her mus the October seven atrocities or the one hundred and twenty
hostages who are still cruelly held captive in Gaza. Now, as we mentioned, Labor Party policy has in the past meant that those who've crossed the floor are expelled. But we know Albani he is a weak leader, and he's chosen not to exercise his authority over Fatima payment. He still hasn't over Andrew Giles, despite scandals that should have seen him sacked multiple times over. The danger for Albanezi is that now that he's allowed Payment to cross the
floor without consequence. He's effectively giving the green light to other politicians to do so in many other policy areas, from nuclear energy to a judicial inquiry into anti Semitism. Now, like I've said many times, we all want peace. No one wants this war. This war was forced on Israel when Hermas stole two hundred and fifty innocent people, including babies, young children, and teenage girls. Hamas is the governing body in Gaza, and it started this war when it brutally
murdered more then one two hundred innocent civilians. Hamas could end this war immediately if it returned all of the hostages and surrendered. But the way to end this war isn't to reward the terrorists by giving them their own state. The suggestion is pure lunacy, and while ultimately there absolutely should be a two state solution, there can be no Palestinian state until a responsible governing body leads the Palestinian
people to recognize a Palestinian state. Now, as the green suggests, as Fatima Payment wants to do, it turns the terrorists into freedom fighters. It turns October seven into Palestinian independent state, and it only sets back the prospect of peace by
emboldening and strengthening the arm of the barbaric terrorists. Well, now let's turn to Juliana sanch who is today being celebrated by the Unions, the Greens, and the Teals as a hero journalist, when in reality he's an irresponsible traitor who risked the lives of American sources working in high risk war zones and oppressive regimes. There's no question Assange broke the law, but today he was released from prison
in a plea deal done with the US. Assange has left the UK and flown to the Northern Mariana Islands where he'll sign the deal that'll see him walk free. He had been charged with conspiracy to obtain and disclose national defense information after publishing trobes of classified national security documents that related to the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. That
was back in twenty ten. There was no attempt by Assange to sip through the documents to protect the identities of sources, servicemen and women who are already risking their lives for the sake of our collective national security. And it's this that separates Assange from the occupation. I love journalism. Journalism is a commitment to the truth, but it requires careful and responsible investigation. It's not a careless document dump.
Journalists are also not captured by government propaganda, and they don't confuse bloodthirsty terrorists with freedom fighters. Assange is nobody's hero, as long term editor Alan Howe notes, recklessly dumping classified correspondence on a website is regarded by journalism as journalism by nobody. Assange describes himself as a journalist, editor, and publisher. He is neither a journalist nor an editor trained as either.
He would have handled his infamous leaks more responsibly, but he is certainly a publisher in the manner that so is anyone who posts a photograph of their kids on social media. Yet Assange won the Gold Walkley, journalism's highest honor, for what for stolen classified documents. When he was on the run from the US, he was accused of being captured by the Kremlin. He even became a propaganda tool
for Putin. Assange had a show on the Kremlin controlled Russian state television where his first guest was a leader of the jew hating terror group Hezbla. Assange described this terrorist as a freedom fighter, and it was hardly a tough interview. The Guardian reported at the time that the questions were clearly agreed in advance, some were softball, others fawning, with Nasrala's answers unchallenged, and The Guardian, the left leaning publication,
by the way, strongly criticized Assange over this. They wrote, the mystery is why Assange should agree to become a pawn in the Kremlin's global information war. It seems extraordinary that Assange, described by RT that's Russian television as the world's most famous whistleblower, should team up with an opaque regime where investigative journalists are shot dead and human rights activists kidnapped and executed, especially in Chechnya and other Southern
Muslim republics. Strange and obscene, That's the Guardian. Assange's values are compromised, confused, and his journalism, if you can call it that and I don't, is closer to anti Western propaganda than genuinely investigative. Despite his history, there's now a bipartisan view that he's done his time, and he probably has, and thanks to the plea deal with the US, he'll now walk free. Unsurprisingly, the Greens and the radical Left was celebrating today.
There is no power on earth that can hold back truth when its time has come, and I want to pay enormous tribute to the courage of Julian Assange who stood his ground.
Nissange has been a member of our union that the Media Entertainment Arts Alliance since two thousand and seven.
His persistence and his commitment to the truth is what has.
Got him out of that detention, and I.
Think it's something that should be celebrated.
Prime Minister.
Is Julian Assange only coming home? Can you bear it? And Albin Easy himself took credit for the move.
I've been very clear as both the Labor leader in opposition but also as Prime Minister that regardless of the views that people have about mister Osane's activities, the case has dragged.
On for too long.
There's nothing to be gained by his continued incarceration and we want him brought home to Australia and we have engaged and advocated Australia's interests using all appropriate channels to support a positive outcome, and I've done that since very early on in my prime ministership.
Coalition Politician said it was good that this saga was finally coming to an end.
We welcome that this saga has been brought to an end after a very long period of time. We welcome the guilty play which has allowed this deal to be reached.
Personally, and I think now is the time to move on. But obviously I wouldn't be making him into any great saint. Ultimately, he put lives at risk. No lives were lost, but he did put lives at risk.
Now, some Republicans today welcomed the Assige plea deal, but former US Vice President Mike Pence said that Assigne endangered the lives of our troops in a time of war and should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. He said, the Biden administration's plea deal with Assange is a miscarriage of justice and dishonors the service and sacrifice of the men and women of our armed
forces and their families. There should be no plea deals to avoid prison for anyone that endangers the security of our military or the national security of the United States. Ever well as usual in the US, this wasn't simply a matter of the law or justice, but a question of politics.
Now.
If you're wondering why this has moved politically in the United States, it has become something of a course celebrity for libertarians, and they are shaping up to be a powerful vote at this election because both sides are losing supporters in favor of RFK.
Junior An RFK celebrated the news today, while libertarian journalist Adam Crichton also said that Asian should be awarded for services to the truth. It's a take I strongly disagree with, although Adam will be expressing his view tonight on the show. This recasting of Assange as a truth telling hero is a fantasy when the reality is that Assange is a complicated, dark, twisted,
and disturbed individual. As Michael Weiss wrote in The Atlantic in twenty nineteen, in the end, the man who reportedly smeared feces on the walls of his lodgings, mistreated his kitten, and variously blamed the ills of the world on feminists and bespeckled Jewish writers was pulled from the Ecuadorian embassy, looking every inch like a powdered sugar Saddam Hussein plucked straight from his spider hole. Now while we all want
this saga to be over. Adam Crichton reports that Assange may reveal further secrets once his plea deal is signed. So it seems this perverted megalomoniac with a victim mentality will be free to unleash further anti Western propaganda and mayhem onto the world. And both Alan Howe and Adam Crichton will join me tonight on the show. To Alan Howe, Assigne is a winger. To Adam Crichton, he's a hero.
They will debate this that's coming up. Also tonight, Clovermore moves to boycott Israel linked companies from the city of Sydney. If this is the only thing that could have made me dislike her more than I already did. But first, now let's go to tonight's panel National ZMP Keith Pitt and former Speaker of the House Bishop Welcome to you both. Look, let's start with this news tonight of Labor Senator Fatima
Payment crossing the floor. Bronwin, what's your reaction to how she has sided with the Greens and also Albanese's weakness and not moving on.
Her, Well, it just highlights the weakness she has defied the Prime Minister on what three occasions, now with the rivet of the Sea repetition and clearly in crossing the floor toot with the Greens on this motion. Now, the Labor Party people take a pledge, they take a pledge that they will be bound by the collective decision of the caucus. And that's why you have the perception that it is around that if they cross the floor they'll be expelled. If you look at the facts, people have
been suspended subsequently lose their pres election, not expelled. But in this case, despite what Senator had to say today about tokenism, she is a token senator and she's treated like a token senator and the result of that is to make the primary to look even weaker because it's all about protecting the numbers in the seats where there are large Muslim voters in Western Sydney.
Well, she says she's not a token senator. She says she's not confined. She'll stand up for what she believes in. And Keith, that's fair enough. We have freedom of speech in this country. But it has been a long time, I think over twenty years since someone has crossed the floor in the Labor Party. They do have rules around this, So could it now be a green light? Could it now be a free for all for any Labor politician to cross the floor.
A sharing The Labor Party don't have just rules, it is iron bound. They do not allow their people to make their own decisions. In fact, even when they have a ballot, they have their union overlords standing next to them to make sure that they vote goes in the correct way. So this is incredibly brave by Fatima. I absolutely disagree with her completely and wholeheartedly. But on my side of politics, shari obedience is not a learned skill. I mean, we welcome people having views. Of course we
want to see unity. If you remember the ministry, it's a requirement under the Westminster system that you will support the decision, but you get your sigh around the big table, particular if you're in cabinet. But I think this is a real problem for Anthony Albanezi. If he has lost control of what is union managed and union run members of Parliament, then that says everything about this Prime minister's leadership and Bromin is exactly right. It demonstrates even further weakness.
And let's see.
What happens in the next few days. But I think Fatima will find herself on the outside of the Labor Party very very quickly.
Yeah, all right, Well, I mean the problem is that many in the Labor Party probably agree with her. There might be others who are in bold and to cross the flora as well. Bromb and Bishop. Let's turn to the reaction to Juliana Sanche's release today, or at least he's free from prison, expected to sign the plea deal. What do you think of what I've had to say about a Sanche?
Well, I agree with very much with much of what you had to say. He's no hero to me, and
I've never had much sympathy for him. However, when I see the way that the United States judicial system has been corrupted, when we look at the Trump trial and the way that Biden was treated differently on questions of secret papers, I would not want to see him surrendered into the jurisdiction of the United States without that plea deal, because I just think that what the United States has done with the way it has gone after Trump, has shown that you cannot trust their system and be fearful
of it. So my attitude is he is no hero, but I wouldn't surrender him to that system. Next thing we've got to, however, contemplate, is where and what is he going to do now? Is he going to turn up on the ABC is or a host or whatever? Is he going to be paraded and lorded? Is a great hero of the left? Probably all of the above.
So we have a problem that is going to have to be dealt with, and that's why it was important that you gave all the detail tonight that you did, because a lot of it is skimmed over.
Yeah, Keith Pitt, what do you think are you expecting the Greens and others the ABC to celebrate Assange if he does come to Australia.
I'm sure there'll be a great celebration by mister Assangeony's supporters, But it's not a decision about his criminality. This is simply about his Australian citizenship and what it stands for for every Australian. I don't care whether it's mister Assange or others. Fourteen years this matter should have been resolved
and I think that's the key point. But I've seen your commentary and I know what you're sending your editorial shower and you make some very very strong points and to my mind, none of that has been determined, decided or even seen as part of the outcome. But we can't have Australian citizens who are locked up for indetermined amounts of time, and the Australian government does have a
role to play to get those issues resolved. So yes, I think there'll be a celebration by mister Sangres supporters, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's guilty or not guilty.
All right, well let's turn to Matt Keen. He's made news this week. Of course, I'm Bronnan Bishop. I'm keen to hear your view on this. Do you think he was a traitor?
Yes, and good riddance to bad rubbish. I mean, this is a man who was nobody who became a member of parliament, became in powerful positions in a Liberal government. He was there because he was put there by the Liberal Party. He otherwise was a nobody. But as I've said very often in his politics, Malcolm Turnbull was the organ grinder, Matt King was the monkey, and so ALBINIZI has appointed the monkey to the job.
Very close relationship Turnbull and macan very close still see whether Matt Kean tries to work for Turnbull in some capacity.
I think he probably will. I don't know this new job pays all that much.
Well, we'll have to see whether it is or isn't a conflict of interest, but probably Labor wouldn't care about that, Keith. Not even the Greens welcomed Matt Kean's appointment today despite the fact that his renewable energy targets, his emissions targets are basically as high as the Greens. I mean, he's supported a seventy percent emissions reduction target, Shari.
If it wasn't for the fact that it's unlawful and on you, mister Kane was looking for a while and or to pass the hat around to getting gone a lot earlier that.
The other problem.
Here is all of the decisions that he's made previously are now tainted on what basis were they made. It was easily acting because at heart he's a true Labor believer, and to have the Greens his appointment, well that says a lot because it takes quite a lot of effort for the Greens not to support an appointment like that, and ultimately the people of New South Wales and Australia
are going to pay the price. He was one of the ones who shut down expansion of the coal sector in New South Wales, intermittent wind and solar zones which are just devastating regional areas of New South Wales. And you can't run this country on part time power, and that is what mister Keane supports.
Yeah, just very very quickly, Branwyn, do you think he should be expelled from the Liberal Party. He won't be. I know he won't be. Do you think he should be if.
It causes great drama and reflects away from the important message that Peter Dutton is putting forward. I wouldn't be bothered, all.
Right, Fromwan Bishop Keith Pitt, thank you both very much for your time. Now coming up, in another outrageous attempt by a Clover Moore to stamp out common sense and endorse racism, the City of Sydney moves to boycott Israeli products. Shatow Home Affairs Minister James Patterson would join me to discuss this and his reaction to Fatima payment crossing the floor. Welcome back. Well, let's bring in shadow Home Affairs Minister now James Patterson, James, good to see you. Look, let's
start with tonight's breaking news. The Albanesi government has said, or the Prime Minister's office has said, that he's not going to expel Fatima payment from the Labor Party, despite her crossing the floor to support the Greens on their motion to recognize a state of Palestine emotion that only rewards her muss for the terrorism of October seven. But again, this is Albanesi not exercising any authority over the party.
What's your reaction to firstly this Greens motion and also the Prime Minister's response to it.
We'll Scharie. It was a typically divisive stunt by the Greens which shouldn't have been entertained by any person of goodwill towards the Israel Palestine issue, and it's extraordinary that a Labor backbencher decided to vote for it. Make no mistake, this is another very big test of the Prime Minister's leadership and one that looks like he's set to fail.
This is a direct challenge to his authority as Labor leader, and if he fails that, if there are no consequences for senator payment, they're not just in your eyes and my eyes will be a week will he be a week prime Minister? But in the eyes of his own caucus members, they'll understand the consequences for a Labor MP or senator if they cross the floor. That's very clear.
No MP or senator has crossed the floor in a Labor Prime minister for over thirty years, and the last time they did so under Bob Hawk, there were serious consequences for them. So if she can get away with this, then every other Labor MP and senator will be thinking, well, maybe I can get away with this in the future, and his authority over the party will be completely shattered.
If it's not already. Let's return to today's top story, Julian Assange walking free. This is now he's now flown to a US Ireland where he's going to enter a plea deal. We then don't have confirmation of his movements. We expect he might return to Australia. Do you support this outcome? Say?
I thought your editorial tonight was very compelling on this issue. Julian. No, Sange is no hero, but it is a welcome thing that this has finally come to an end. I noted has come to an end because misters Sange has finally agreed to plead guilty to the charges against him, which are very serious national security charges. He could have entered into a plea deal at any point during his long incarceration.
And while it's true, as many people say that this has gone on for a long time, the reason why it's gone on for a long time is that he was evading lawful extradition requests by hiding in the ecuador own embassy and then challenging them through every level of the UK courts, which is entitled to do so. It is welcome it's coming to an end. It is a credit to the United States as a rule of law democracy that they are showing such leniency towards someone accused
of such a serious crime. And frankly, it dispels the myth of the United States critics that it is such an evil raser. And when, frankly, had mister Sience done this in Russia, a patron of his, the consequences for him would have been much more severe than this.
Do you think he has actually done his time? I mean, yes, he wasn't free, but he hasn't technically been in prison.
Well, if it's good enough for the US Justice Department. That's a matter for them. The crime has committed against the United States government and their intelligence secrets, and so really that's a matter for them. But no one in Australia should make the mistake that he's some sort of hero to be celebrated or as you say, a journalist.
Indeed, now Labour has waded out it's crackdown on vapes to gain the support of the Greens. This would see vapes available at chemists pharmacies without a prescription. It would make Australia the first country to ban their sale outside of pharmacies. James, Pharmacists are reportedly outraged. What do you think of this deal that Labour has struck over vapes with the Greens.
Area.
It's a grubby deal that's fallen at the first hurdle. The government didn't even bother to consult with the people that they expect to participate in it to sell it. And if pharmacists refuse to sell vapes then effectively what you're having is an extension of the prohibition model, which we know has failed. What we need to do with
vaping is exactly what we've done with cigarettes. Treat it as a retail product, strictly regulated sale, put it in plane packaging, tax it and spend some of the revenue that will gain from that excise as we have proposed on a two hundred and fifty million dollar law enforcement package with a new task force put stood up by the ABF, the Border Force and the Australian Federal Police to crack down on this illegal vaping market, but also
the illegal tobacco market, which has seen rampant gang violence across our country, particularly in my home state of Victoria, where forty tobacconists in the last year have been set on fire or exploded. This is a government that's totally failed when it comes to vaping, totally failed when it comes to community safety, and we've got a much better plan to fix.
It, all right, James Patterson. Always great to have you on the show. Thank you very much. Now, in an extraordinary foray into foreign politics, uncalled for foray into foreign politics, the City of Sydney Council and its Mayor Clovermore is now going to look at counseling contracts with companies linked
to Israel. The Herald reports that Lord Mayor Clovermore has supported a Green's motion last night to audit divestments and ensure the Council didn't invest in or profit from so called human rights violations, which apparently includes the and I quote illegal occupation of the settlements in Palestinian territories and the supply of weapons. Meanwhile, anti Semitism is exploding in California. Outside a synagogue yesterday there were shocking and terrifying scenes
of hatred towards Jews. I mean, this footage, if you haven't seen it already, is truly despicable. Let's bring in now liberal MP Julian, Lisa Julian, thank you very much for your time. Look, let's start with those scenes outside synagogue in La just yesterday. How upsetting were they? And do you think the authorities, I mean, Joe Biden issued a statement saying it was reprehensible. The antisemitism isn't on. But yet again we're just not seeing the strength of
law enforcement in LA. It's the same situation here. You're absolutely right, Cherry.
Ever since the seventh of October, the disappointing sense of abandonment that Jews have had right across the world, from law enforcement agencies, from governments, from university vice chancellors from bodies that are set up to deal with racism.
It's just been extraordinary.
You know.
All we want to see.
Is people to enforce the law so that Jewish people, whether they're in America or in this country, can live their lives free of harassment and intimidation. And yet to people going to a synagogue to protest and cause those ugly scenes that you were showing earlier is a very distressing thing. As the sort of antisemitic demonstrations that we've seen in Australia. It's reminiscent of those drive through, those convoys of hate that occurred at the end of last year.
People drove through suburbs of high Jewish populations in order to intimidate people. It's not long.
You know, everyone can have whatever view they want about the war, but when you're attacking Jewish people outside of synagogue that's got nothing to do with Israel, that's just Jews, and it's just what makes it so terrifying, truly terrifying. Now let's turn to clover More and her spot her support basically for a boycott of Israel and Israeli products. I mean, how can the lord mayor of the city of Sydney take such an offensive position.
Well, Chari, this is someone who's been Lord mayor for too long. We've got council elections coming up in a few weeks in New South Wales. This is somebody who's looking for relevance and this looks like a complete political stunt to me. We expect our local councils to be engaged in roads, rubbish and rates. We don't expect them to make foreign policy.
It'd be as.
Silly as us talking about garbage collection here in Canberra. And I think Clover Moore and the City of Sydney Council have demonstrated while they should play no role in foreign policy. What's particularly bad about this motion and this whole boycott, devestment and sanctions movement, is that you never hear people saying, oh, we should boycott North Korea, or we should boycott Russia, or we should boycott to Syria when it's committing human rights abuses. It is the singling
out of Israel. And when you single out Israel and you apply a different set of standards to Israel, it apply to any other country. That is one of the modern manifestations of anti Semitism and I'm sick of seeing local councils think that they can dictate the foreign policy of this country.
They can't.
Clover Moore needs to stick to her knitting.
Yeah, indeed, and I agree with you. Time for her to go sixteen years if it's around that, it's enough. It's long enough now. There've been reports this week, and we covered it here on the show last night as well, that some members of the University of Sydney encampment were allegedly members of an extreme Islamist group his Bookteria. It's not categorized as a terror group in Australia, but it
is in the UK and elsewhere. The University of Sydney's vice Chancellor, Mark Scott made a deal with this fringe group. They're now going to be privy to its defense and security related research activities online. Julian, you're taking a very close interest in the anti Semitism on university campuses. What do you make of Mark Scott's capitulation to this extremist group and the fact that he hasn't even returned the phone cause of Jewish leaders over this matter.
I think the University of Sydney has treated with the Jewish community with absolute contempt, and they've demonstrated that their leadership is not fit to run a university. In my view, the idea that you would basically capitulate to an organization which is listed as a terrorist organization in the United Kingdom, an organization which celebrated the seventh of October terrorist attacks, an organization which was actually announced the deal that was
done with Sydney University. It wasn't announced by the Vice Chancellor. It was announced by this organization. And at a time when we're wanting our best and brightest minds to work on AUCUST, and that includes our universities, the idea that you would give an organization which is effectively an extremist organization the right to run their ruler over every defense contract that the University of Sydney has is unbelievable.
And here we are.
I think it's the Sydney University basically ruling itself out of having any participation in AUCUST by having struck this deal, and it is an insult to Jewish Australians who have been asking the Vice chancellor for months to deal with the encampments on his university. We need to see university leaders standing up to this bullying, and this just shows the hardier bully, the more you'll get out of Sydney University. Look.
I played the clip on the show last night of that group at their own press conference and they chanted Ali Wakhbar about twenty times. No mention of Australia, nothing about the Australian anthem. I mean, Julian, you put this all together, what we're seeing from Mark Scott, what we're seeing from clover More, the lack of action from the Albanezy government, you know, the riots outside of synagogue in California.
I mean, do you have any message of hope, because I tell you I'm feeling very depressed about all of this at the moment.
Look, Sherry, there's lots of hope out there. What gives me hope is the number of people that contact me, that stopped me in the street, Academics and university administrators from around the country who have been telling me that I'm on the right track with my Judicial Inquiry bill, that it's the right thing. You know, I think ordinary
Australians look agast at this. There is this growing sense of lawlessness in our country, of which the government's failure to deal with anti Semitism is just one species of it. Whether it's the knife attacks on clergymen in Western Sydney or the knife attacks in Bondi, whether it's the lawlessness in indigenous communities, whether it is people smugglers thumbing their nose at our borders, whether it is the return of unions on building sites. The level of general lawlessness is increasing.
And what we've got is a government that is dominated by the left, that is basically capitulating and not taking strong stands on law and order issues. And that's to the detriment of all of us. We've got to have liberty in this country, but you can't have liberty.
Without order, all right, all right, Well, set indeed and keep fighting on your judicial inquiry. Thank you very much for joining me, Julian Lisa. Now coming up that debate I promised, Adam Crichton versus Alan Howe on Julian Assanche. Stay tuned after this quick break well to debate the two sides of the Julian Assange spectrum. Let's bring in now the Australians Washington correspondent Adam Crichton and long term
editor at The Australian, Alan Howe. Welcome to you both. Adam, you've got a very different take on mine when it comes to Julian Assigne. In fact, you think he should be awarded for his commitment to telling the truth. He is your hero, Adam Crichton.
Yeah, well, look, I should he should be I think. I mean, he's made the world much much better informed. He released all of those documents, He published all of those documents which someone else gave him. I might add, he didn't steal them. Chelsea mang gave him all of those cables. And sure it caused a huge amount of embarrassment to the US government because we learned that they were lying about various things. They're engaging in various activities
that they shouldn't have been. So sure, you know, if the charges is causing embarrassment to the world's most powerful government, then that's real. But you know, I think the benefit of what he's done is great. And also just to point out, I mean, most mainstream newspapers in the US have done the same things as the SIMS has done. They've published classified information, whether you go back to you know,
to the Pentagon papers or the Watergate, et cetera. But in those cases there wasn't the same level of pursuit that we've seen in the case of assamch So And I think you know it's partly because he's a foreigner, and you know he's maybe a nasty person, some people say, but that's all completely irrelevant to you to the case at hand.
Alan, How what do you think of the comments Adam Crichton has just made.
Well, I hope if I've come up in court on serious charges that Adam is the judge, he's clearly a very bad bloke. He's done some very bad things. He's compromised the entire Western alliance of diplomatic cables and communications.
These are very important effect. We've seen how important they are just this year with a couple of terror plots being uncovered in Paris and lead up to the Olympic seare Now, these are robust, and sometimes they're purole, but they transfer information between allied governments in a very important way. It was Julian Sanger's ambition to slice that system off of the knees to destroy it. Daniel Elsberg who published the Pentagon Papers. Now, the Pentagon Papers didn't endanger anyone's life,
it bruised the egos and Watergate similarly bruised egos. But the release of the information by WikiLeaks, you know, I mean Julian Sads neither an editor nor a journalist, and were either and trained in either, he wouldn't have released those willie nilly. But it was the US evidence before the court and Woolwich when he broke in his bail, that the release of that information has led to two of their ages disappearing.
I did, well, Adam, isn't that right that this was a careless document dump that risked lives, It risked sources who literally put their life on the line to serve our cause.
Well, look, certainly that argument is often made, but look in the fourteen years this stuff's been out there, you know, there's basically been no damage at all. So I think I think the argument is I mean, sure it's a you know, it's a valid theoretical argument, but you know, the are those who attack Assans. They claim that, you know, he's caused enormous danger for various people, But I just
don't see that that's been born out in reality. And frankly, even if it's true, then that's the price of you know, knowing the truth.
You know, it's an unforceund it can't be the price of knowing this gets down to it. You can report it in a responsible way. You can remove the names of identities, You don't have to publish every single document that's in your possession. You can tell the story carefully. Yes, look, yeah, look, I.
Mean certainly, you know, we can make an argument he should have redacted this or should have redacted that. But at the end of the day, it's happened, right, I mean, it's been published, it's out there, and so we can just analyze what's there. And I just don't think the damage has been done that was claimed. I mean, it's quite extraordinary.
Really.
There's hundreds of thousands of documents, hundreds of thousands of names, is my understanding, and you know, there's really not that much damage. I mean, I think it comes down to a philosophical point of view, and then whether you think the state is the master and citizens of the servants or not. I mean, I just don't think the government
should be able to keep all these secrets. You know, basically take our money, you know, through taxes, and then basically lie to to the taxpayers, and you know, do all these crazy things overseas and you know, the argument basically just bails down to, well, the US are the good guys, so they should be able to.
That's Adam the argument you're basically but when we do it, it's Adam. The argument you're basically running is that we should have no classified secrets that we had should not have no class Well, because we pay it should be. But let's bring Alan, Let's bring Alan how back in on this. Alan, you've written extensively about assign's history. Can you tell us in a concise way some of his some parts of his questionable background.
Well, he committed crimes in Melbourne in nineteen ninety five and the judge was very lenient to him, saying that pretty much saying, look, he was just seeking self aggrandizement. Wasn't criminal activity, even though it was a crime, and he could easily have gone to jail back then in the later nineties. His behavior, well, he broke the Bail
Act in the UK. It's a very serious crime. And I think it's ironic that Bradley Manning became Chelsea Manning, became became a female, but manned up and faced those charges twenty two charges she pleaded guilty to. Ten was convicted of seventeen and one of them was aiding the enemy. Now you can't just say that. Let's dispose the idea that julianasane as a journalist. Of course he's not. No one considers just irresponsibly downloading hundreds of thousands of documents
onto website. That's not journalism. Never has me And people may have lost their lives, almost certainly did. We won't know who they are because we didn't know who they were then. And he hated enemies, he particularlyated any enemy of the United States. A lot of people said, oh, he hasn't committed a crime there, you know, why should he be facing charges there will? In fact, he did commit crimes against the US system. He did aid the enemies of the US, and the enemies of the US are our enemies.
Yeah, indeed they are. I wish we had more time for today. We've just completely out of time. We'll get you back on both of you perhaps in the future. Adam Crichton, Alan Howe really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Now, just before we go to a break, some wonderful news. Now, our regular Sky News guest and colleague journalist at Jenna Clark has welcomed a beautiful baby boy with her partner Chris Dott. Louis was born on Thursday night in Perth
Weagh nearly three point four kilograms. Is very sweet as you can see here, and both Ja and Chris are thrilled to bits with the new addition to their family. And I hope both of you enjoy every moment of this special time in the baby bubble. And don't worry. As far as I know, no one has ever died from a lack of sleep. But seriously, there's nothing that brings more happiness to the heart than a little newborn snuggle. And don't we neat joy in our lives right now?
Congratulations to you both. Now after the break, allegations continue to evolve Channel nine, Sophie Elsworth will join me next. All right, welcome back. Let's bring in the Australians and media writers. Sophie Elsworth. Now, Sophie, great to see you. Look, let's turn first to the comments from Fairfax former owner John B. Fairfax, who was an owner of the Citney Morning Herald, which is obviously now merged with Channel nine, and he spoke out about the scandal that's been engulfing
nine what did he have to say? That's right, Charry.
He spoke to my colleague James Madden, resulting in this fallout from Channel nine, and basically said that it cast a shadow over media ethics, this whole disaster with nine, these allegations of misconduct and inappropriate behavior by staff at the network, and he said it's bad for the company and bad for the company's governance. Now a lot of people still associate Fairfax with nine, although that it is no longer, people still get confused and think it is
part of nine. But these are pretty cutting words from a mister Fairfax, given he was involved with newspapers, with the newspaper element of what is now nine for such a long time, and Charry's you and I both know this saga that is engulfed nine Entertainment is far from over, with that independent review well underway.
Indeed, So let's talk about that now, the external review. Many women are coming forward with their own stories allegations of harassment, bullying, sexual harassment as well. At nine. You've been reporting on this. What can you tell us about how extensive this process is?
Well, Sharry, it appears from what I have gathered in my colleague James Madden. This appears to be an extensive problem of inappropriate behavior, all allegations. Of course at the network. It's not just in the news division. There's people coming forward to in other parts of the business, Sharry, and a lot of women very very concerned even to go to you know, present their story to the review.
They're worried about.
Their anonymity, and people won't come forward. We have not got nine staffers, former or you know, current staffers to come on the record to speak of their time there, apart from Kerry Anne Kenneley who spoke to my colleague James Madden. People are fearing for their jobs over this, Sharry. This is such a frightening situation for many people to speak up.
I mean many women are speaking out, no question, but just not on the record because they are worried about their jobs. Sophie, we've been covering Julian Assange tonight. Of course he will now be free. The left is celebrating him as a journalist, but he only did a document dump. Do you think this is journalism?
Well, Sharry, I agree with your editorial on this tonight. I would really doubt that you describe Julian Assange as a journalist. I think that's a pretty loose description of a journalist, although a lot of people do tend to call themselves journalists today if they just turn a computer on and write a few words. But look, I'm just glad Shari, like many people, that this case appears to be coming to an end, because it's a saga that has gone on for far.
Too long in my view. I mean, he won the Gold Walkley Award, the highest award in journalism. They gave it to Julian Assigned several years ago. I mean, what does they say about the credibility of the Walkleys.
Well, Shari, it sort of shows that the Walkleys have become a bit of a farce. Really, they're heavily skewed left. They parade the ABC and many journalists there. They don't really like conservative journalism, and I don't think the Walkles is what it once used to be with some of the things that's happened with the Walkleys over the years.
I mean, just this year there was a pro Palestinian activist as co host. I mean, the Book of the Year was given to a book that was strongly anti Israel. This is an objective journalism and Also, Shari, don't forget they dumped their sponsors. They're no longer working with Ampole of the sponsors they had outrage over that. It's become more of a political outfit in some ways, and I think it damages what has been very highly regarded in journalism for a very long time. All Right, indeed, thank
you so much for your time. I'll see everyone at home tomorrow at eight. Don't miss the show. A former hostage will be on live. But right now, here's Paul Murray.