Live on Sky News This is.
Sharry Good Evening.
Tonight's secret recordings have caught nine Star reporter Nick McKenzie on tape claiming he engaged in unethical behavior during their famous war crimes case.
Breaking us on his leadershiptu in perspected you.
Those shocking revelations. In a moment also tonight, TLMP Minick Ryan apologizes after her husband tears down a liberal poster. So much for a returning integrity to politics. Plus shame on Victorian police as they seek to gag a pro Israel advocate campaigning against anti Semitism. And we'll look at which states are swinging in Dutton's favor with new polling on the show That's tonight.
It's all coming up.
But first, it was called the defamation case of the century, in which Ben Robertson went from a decorated VC winner and national hero to a disgraced war criminal.
Today he is a day of justice. It's a day of justice for those brave men of the Sas who stood up and told the truth about who Ben Robert Smith is. A war criminal, a bully and a liar.
It's a verdict.
The Afghan veteran is appealing but now secret audio recordings have come to light, which casts doubt on the ethics and even the legal process of part of the case built against him.
No, I shouldn't tell you, I've just preached my ethics in doing that. This is where like this is really position now.
An explosive recording has caught nine Star reporter Nick Mackenzie claiming he'd engaged in unethical behavior during their famous war crime case by obtaining part of ben Robert Smith's legal strategy from his ex wife and her friend. In the secret recording that we've obtained, Mackenzie says knowing Robert Smith's
legal strategy had been helpful in Nine's case. He also freely says that Robert Smith's ex wife, Emma Roberts, and her friend Danniel Scott had been actively briefing us on his legal strategy in respect to a witness.
Briefing us on his legal shifty and respected you.
And in devastating comments from Nine's most celebrated journalist, Mackenzie also confesses this, No.
I shouldn't tell you, I've just preached my ethics and doing that like this is where like this is to leadership position now if they knew that.
And pet you that I can.
And there mackenzie is referring to Minter's Ellison solicitor Dean Levetton and Minter's Ellison partner Peter Bartlett, who led the defense team for nine in the defamation case brought by Robert Smith, the former SAS corporal and Victoria Cross recipient. Bartlett is the former chair of Minter Ellison and a
past chair and board member of the International Bar Association. Now, there's no suggestion that any lawyers involved in the case for nine were aware that any privileged information had been accessed or of other wrongdoing. Now the recording captures a conversation in early twenty twenty one between McKenzie and a woman he was trying to encourage to cooperate in their legal case, where they were defending the defamation suit brought
against them by Australia's highly decorated soldier. In the conversation, McKenzie is trying to reassure the potential witness and encourage her to give evidence in the trial.
On behalf of nine. Now, you're about to.
Hear mackenzie speak about Robert Smith's ex wife, Emma Roberts and her friend Daniel Scott.
Daniel and end try let's say yet again, you work for movie, sent a hotel.
The meme which.
They came actively like.
Breaking us on his legal ship to you and respected you like the piece. And yet we're not learning like we anticipated most of it. One or two things now we know, which is helpful. But at the point there is I told you that is to.
Say, like, you know, we've got this.
And and they're not hostile to years despite your worst fears, they're not.
So as you heard there, that remark reveals that Mackenzie and nine were not previously aware of aspect of Robert Smith's legal strategy about a potential witness, which he said was helpful to their own legal case. So listen to that part again.
They came actively like.
Breaking us on his legal ship to you and respected you because his And yet we're not learning about we anticipated most of it.
One or two things now we know, which is helpful.
But and Mackenzie then goes on in the conversation to claim that obtaining the details of Robert Smith's legal strategy from his ex wife and her friend was a breach of ethics.
But I've told you that, so many times now as well, And I had to tell you that extra bit to sort of prove it in your mind.
No, I shouldn't tell you. I've just breached my ethics and doing that like this is where like this has to leadership position. Now, if they knew that, and Peter knew that I can, I wouldn't tell anyone else.
I haven't told anyone like no one else I'd tell this.
This is an extraordinary admission from a senior journalist that he's breached his ethics, that it's put him in a difficult position, and that his lawyers would be displeased. During the trial, Robert Smith launched separate legal action acu his ex wife Emma, of accessing an email account that he used for confidential legal correspondence. He claimed information that only originated in that email account had found its way to nine and that it had the potential to contaminate the
trial will. Robert Smith's lawyers argue the account had been accessed at least one hundred and one occasions, including by Danielle Scott nine In Minter Ellison told the court they had no documents to produce in response to subpoenas seeking material that originated from Emma Roberts, but Emma later admitted that she had allowed her close friend Danielle to access her ex husband's email accounts, but only she said in
relation to their marriage breakdown. The judge, Justice Robert Bromwich said the claims from Robert Smith that his emails were accessed amounted to bear possibilities and suspicions and dismissed.
The legal challenge.
But now this shocking audio recording captures McKenzie claiming that Emma and her friend Danielle did in fact provide details of Robert Smith's legal strategy in relation to a witness, and it raises questions about whether other legal strategy or emails were also provided. I asked Emma Roberts a series of questions, including whether she had organized or agreed for Danielle to assist McKenzie and pass on information contained in emails to him. Now, her lawyer said, our client thanks
you for the opportunity to comment, but so declients. This recording will rock the legal fraternity media circles and could have ramifications for the outcome of one of Australia's most expensive cases in court proceedings. Both sides are able to subpoena a wide range of documents, with the exception of legal advice and strategy.
This is privileged information. Now.
I asked a senior experienced solicitor about the impact of the revelations contained in this audio, and he said it could have the potential to blow open the proceedings and call into question not only the entire case, but the evidence under oath of several important witnesses.
He said, if.
Nick mackenzie was being given Ben Robert Smith's confidential legal advice that had been secretly taken from his emails and using it to his advantage in the trial, that is straight out cheating. We cannot now know how far that poison may have spread throughout the proceedings. The solicitor said that the case turned on the credibility of witnesses and in his view, there are credit findings. He said, reading the judgment, it is clear that there are credit findings
throughout that could be impacted by this new material. The judgment must now be scrutinized in light of this information.
Now.
Aside from the court case, this also caused into question the journalism practices at nine, including the protection of sources and the handling of sensitive information about police investigations, because in the audio, Mackenzie can also be heard sharing details about an undercover police investigation that he claimed was both active and current.
No one knows about the police investigation.
It's intensively if on going place investigation Bone Tabs task Force, a whole new task.
Force has released the Love in Brisbane, the entire new task force.
There's police living in his apartment block under resumed identities as we speak by the.
Guides, Mackenzie could have jeopardized as sensitive police investigation, including the safety of undercover officers, by speaking about it to this unrelated witness and even extraordinarily revealing the existence of phone taps. Now, Mackenzie didn't respond to a series of specific questions, including.
What he meant by breaching his own ethics.
Instead, the Nine Network defended their legal strategy and their journalism, with a Nine spokesperson saying, having reviewed the audio clip with support from external council, we can confirm there is no breach of legal privilege or ethical concerns. Nine has full confidence in the reporting and actions of Nick Mackenzie, an award winning reporter who enjoys the respect and admiration
of his editors and colleagues in the newsroom, MINTA. Ellison didn't provide a separate response to our questions.
Now, Robert Smith has never been charged by police.
He sued nine over the twenty eighteen allegations that he committed war crimes during his deployments in Afghanistan. The court found in Nine's favor, holding that their imputations were substantially true that Robert Smith was complicit in the unlawful killings of four unarmed Afghan prisoners. He's now appealing the defamation judgment, with a decision set to be released imminently.
Now.
Mackenzie is renowned for his use of secret recordings in his own award winning reports.
In fact, he's made a career out of it.
Here are some examples, and normally we'd never know what goes on in the back rooms of Australian politics, but we've obtained secret audio and video recordings that catch out the real Adam Somyrek. Among the covids of Aali vision we've managed to obtain, we can see things like a notorious Hells Angels gangster. While it's clear business is booming for the gangland figure, he's more secretive about how he
actually operates behind the scenes. This phone recording we've obtained provides clue about his tactics.
But now a recording of his own has come back to haunt him. Mackenzie's book on the Robert Smith case is.
Called Crossing the Line, and there will now be.
Questions about Weather Nine and Mackenzie crossed the line in their pursuit of Australia's most famous Afghanistan War veteran.
Now, the Teals claim to support women.
They claimed that they'd bring integrity to politics, and yet here was Manique Ryan's husband tearing down a poster of her political rival, a young female Liberal candidate, Emilia Hamer.
So hang on, mate, what are you doing? I'm taking a side out? Yeah, beg you, Perbin, I'm taking the side out. What are you doing that for? It's on public land.
I'm not saying who I am, who are you?
Or you wearing a Teal T shirt. I'll start to film you. Are you?
Monik Ryan?
Supporter of ripping down people's signs?
Are you?
Is that what you're doing? It belongs to me. Hey, you can take it off the property, but it belongs to me.
If it goes back up, It'll be taken down again.
There you go, Monique Ryan, there you go community values.
Now, as you can see that he wouldn't say who he was. Well, there was such outrage over this today that both Minique Ryan and her husband had to apologize. Minique Ryan said, I apologize for the removal of the sign.
It should not have happened.
All concerns about signage should be reported to counsel. And mister Jordan said that he unreservedly apologizes for removing the sign.
It was a mistake. He said.
He believed the sign was illegally placed, but he should have reported his concerns to counsel. Now, the Prime Minister was very dismissive of this incident today.
So on a day where we've got a sixteen point five billion dollar national education announcement, I'm asked about someone's husband removing a Liberal Party sign on a road somewhere.
That has that what's.
A sign going to call an election?
Is there any connection whatsoever with anyone in the Labor Party with this alleged event, of which I did not know. No, okay, I think you've it's your question.
He's trivializing the matter. He thinks it's a joke.
Is this how Manique Ryan and her husband should treat a woman trying to make her way in politics. Emilia Heim is running for the seat of Couyong, Josh Friedenberg's old seat. She's a great candidate and she grew up with politics. Her great uncle was the Victorian premier, and so was her great grandfather, Sir William McPherson, and her grandfather was also a senator for Victoria. But she's young in age, around thirty one years old, and Minique Bryan
could do better than to tear down her posters. We're joining us now to discuss this. Sky News contributor Joe Hildebrand and Liberal Senator Holly Hughes.
Good evening, Welcome to you both.
Great to be Joe, your mate, Albo. He took this a bit lightly today, didn't he. I mean, if this was a female labor candidate who had her posters torn down, he would have reacted.
Yeah, that's right.
I think he's just making the point and said, look, this is between the teals and the liberals.
It's nothing to do with us. I want to talk about.
Our great big sixteen and a half billion dollar education policy. But certainly I have absolutely no love for the Teals. I've always thought that they were nauseatingly holier than thou. They pontificate about wanting and needing more integrity in politics, but in fact they, as we've seen by this example, do not display the remotest amount of integrity themselves. We know that the Teal contests were among the nastiest of the last federal election, and particularly in Monique Ryan's seat
of Couyong. We know there are people with connections to get up who have been involved into your campaigning, and that they have a particularly nasty reputation when it comes to when it comes to the way they run campaigns, and you can ask the Cole Flint.
About that in South Australia.
So I've always thought that the Teals were nauseating at the best of times. But the fact that you've got a Teal, you know, the Alpha Teal, Nick Ryan's husband, going around like the lone ranger, tearing down opponents' campaign material, that just strikes me as just the worst possible look. And no wonder they both just broke every land speed record to issue groveling apologies and people should.
Know because it was cad on cameras an apology, yes, not an apology right when he was caught in the act, Holly. But you know, the Tears campaigned on integrity, they campaigned on better treatment of women at the Heimlie Rug for example, movement.
Holly, what's your response this, it's ironic.
Well, they were going to do politics differently, weren't they. They were the bastions of the moral center of the universe. Yet their true colors are consistently seen. And I mean I can just still hear on a Ryan yelling shame on you across the chamber when she was standing up wearing a mask, you know through COVID, and then the footage came out of her at a party without a mask around the same time. This is a woman who we need to look at what she does, not what
she says. It's disgraceful behavior and for Alban easy to brush it off. Though he was in Victoria, so he may have made an announcement with Chris fully in the morning, but clearly the VIP was ready to go because it was Rob Mitchell, the Member for McEwen, standing behind him there in Victoria. So no wonder he was asked about this and what you know, he was asked by Victorian journalists standing in Victoria and the fact that he dismisses it. If it was a labor female candidate, we'd have the
me Too movement in a resurgency tonight. But again it happens to a conservative woman, So nothing to see here.
Yeah, yeah, there is definitely a bit of political hypocrisy going on. Meanwhile, I want to talk about this shocking development in Victoria. I was absolutely appalled to see this. It's a major infringement on free speech by Victorian police. Now they're taking action against an online antisemitism campaigner. Her name's Zara Cooper and they're applying Victorian Police applying for personal safety intervention order on behalf of an anti Israel
activist who you've probably heard of, called Sarah Schwartz. She was behind that pro Dutton Jew slide that was so offensive. She heads up a left wing group that aligns itself with the pro Palestinian movement. She's always speaking on the ABC, even though she doesn't represent the majority of Australian Jews. Now, Zara Cooper has been critical of this group's legitimacy as the voice of Australian Jews, and she's done so through her Instagram account. That's called Clammy fraud and she's right.
Yet now Victorian police allege that Cooper's online commentary is severely affecting Sarah Schwartz's mental health. So this is effectively a gag order on a pro Israel advocate. It's a blatant attack on free speech and its attempt an attempt to silence the Jewish community. Now, Zara Cooper has never threatened anyone its accounts like hers that are trying to make our country a safer place, and yet Victorian police want to silence her. Joe, this is an outrageous infringement and free speech.
Yeah, I think it is. I was stunned.
I came across this story very late last night and I just could not actually below. It was one of those things only in Victoria, obviously, where the police seem to have become an arm of the political apparatus. It's very,
very strange, but it seemed to me absolutely shocking. I thought it's a classic example of sort of people on the extreme left being cry bullies, where they will essentially defame an entire community and accuse anyone who's pro Israel of being some kind of shill for Peter Dutton, or being a puppet for Peter Dutton. And then when someone says, we'll hang on a minute, you're not representative of the Jewish community, saying.
How could you now my mental health is being affected because it chriticized me.
The only thing that raised even the slightest the only thing where I said, oh maybe there is something There was when there was talk about how the image of a rat had been used in relation to Sarah Schwartz, and I thought, all right, well that's a you know, we know that the Greens have used the image of the octopus to describe the Jewish comunity. That is a
Nazi trope from the Holocaust, used to dehumanize. And then I saw the actual image and it was a gift of a nose and a little quite a cute little rat saying I smell a rat.
I E.
I don't think you're being honest here. So if that is the strongest case the police have in order to take out effective sort of protection racket for for Sarah Schwartz, I think maybe they might want to concentrate their efforts of there is also a youth crime crisis in Victoria, the police might want to direct their attention to where people are actually being attacked physically and hurt on the streets, rather than wasting their resources on an online activist whose.
Feelings have been hurt.
You're one hundred percent right for once, Joe.
For once you get there.
Eventually, Wow, people are in fear in Melbourne, you know, worried about this crime wave that's been happening. But I want to ask you, Holly, at the same time, on the weekend, we saw Victorian police remove a Jewish pro Israel protest and allow the pro Palestinian aggressive protests that we're shouting all Zion as a terrorists to continue. So I feel really uncomfortable with how Victorian police are handling this entire issue.
Look, I'm really surprised to hear Joe though, say that he's shocked to hear that the Victorian police are an arm of the political wing. If you talk to anyone who's been around Victorian politics for a length of time, they'll tell you that the Victorian police are very much an apparachi of the left wing political class in Victoria. And you know, I don't think it's just Victoria.
I think it's in New South Wales too.
You know, remember on October ninth we have one person in Sydney with an Israeli flag and they were the person that was moved on. This is absolutely insanity, but we see it this left wing bent, anti Semitic bent that they would target free speech around anti Semitism. They target anyone who is pro Israel, that is a Zionist who supports the release of the hostages whilst protecting I mean, quite frankly, I'm not even going to say a name.
I'm not going to give it a credibility because it's a one woman person claiming to be a counsel who is trying to represent a far left wing Jewish group which is not representative of the Jewish community in Australia. I bet we wouldn't see her wearing the badge that you know, you, I and others wear almost every day with regards to support for the hostages. So it's pathetic.
And if the Victorian police really have that much time on their hand, I can show them some of the mind and conservative women's social medias and if this woman's being so impacted by her mental health by that meme of a small little mouse. She should just come and cop a little bit of what we do for five minutes and see how you go.
Love. And she might have members.
Just picking up on that point where you said she's a one woman council, she might have members, maybe one hundred members, I don't know. But it's definitely not representative of the majority of views in the Jewish community.
Just because you have a fax machine doesn't mean you're a representative council for no exactly.
All right, Joe, we were going to talk about your column in the Daily Telly, but I think we're out of time.
It's brilliant just taking that word.
It's very nice, Jolly Hughes. Great to see you, Joe. See you guys next Monday.
All right, Well, let's talk now about the budget which is tomorrow night. Well, the headline in the Australian today was into the red and no way out as Labor accepts years of deficits and the Treasurer has conceded that Australia is in for years and years of deficit to come.
When do you anticipate an Australian government could next deliver a surplus?
Well, it remains to be seen. Our efforts have been about trying to make the budget as responsible as we can, some savings.
And that's bringing now Judo Bank Chief Economist Warren Hogan, Warren, good to see you again. Budgets tomorrow night. We've seen a lot of pre election sweetness. But are you worried that this all amounts to increase spending that could put pressure on inflation?
Well, Hi, Jerry, yeah, good. Well, we're seeing, of course, this process play out where the budget bottom line gets some support from stronger economy. In this case it's likely to be stronger personal income taxes, and then some portion of it's spent. And we know the magnitude of the
extra spending over the course of this government. So the reality is is that we are going to see pre election spending measures and we're going to I think it's quite disheartening and that we're not even attempting to get back to budget and that really is the break with the past. The last thirty years governments in Australia have at least tried, even if it's ten years out, to have an ambition and that doesn't seem to be there anymore.
And even we see in the US at the moment. The Trump administration, you know, widely criticized, and yet part of the reason behind Elon Musk's doze is they are trying to rain in the budget and cut spending, and that you know that attempt isn't even happening here. It doesn't seem like Australian voters care about it anymore.
I mean, that's what the polls show.
So do you think we are seeing some labor and pace expressing support for fiscal restraint, But we're not likely to see that, especially when this budget is right before the election.
No, we're not.
I don't think any of us are expecting to see any kind of restraint. There might be some restraint defined as not spending all of the increasing government revenues they get, but that all remains to be seen tomorrow and there will not be anything significant done. The reality is is we have every bit as much of a problem with size of government and size of government spending as America,
if not worse. And I imagine that the pressure on the next government is to do something about the structural increase in spending that's occurred will mount because we are taxing this economy and that is going to force further problems, whether it be labor force participation, productivity, or just unfairness on younger generations. This is not a sustainable situation.
On the other hand, we are seeing the Coalition match many of Labour's announcements. Do you think the Coalition should be taking it different approach here, a more fiscally conservative approach.
Well, look, I think they are fiscally conservative at heart. The reality is that they just don't want to get in the way of a government that will maybe be kicked out. That's the reality of Australian politics. Bill Shorten showed in twenty nineteen that you put up a lot of policy and you just make it harder for the Australian people to kick out a government they don't like. We saw it all the way back in ninety three
with John Houston. So I think they've just been politically conservative and letting the Australian people make a judgment on Albanezi in his government and at most people think that's enough. It's what they do if they do get into power that matters. But to give you some idea, if we're just going to give the bracket creep back to the
Australian people, for the last three years. It's fifty billion a year in cutting and spending and that's just an unpolitically acceptable thing to say before an election.
Yeah, well, Angus Taylor hasn't committed either to delivering a surplus if he becomes Treasurer. I mean, it would be a difficult promise. It would almost certainly be a broken promise if he made it. But he has hinted that there might be a big announcement in his Budget reply speech on Thursday. Have you got any insights for us on what he could.
Be looking to do well.
I think the two key policy leaders a look at are either related to energy or defense, and both of these two areas are critical for Australia. Right now, we know the nuclear policies there, so is there a sort of a second phase to this around gas? And then the other one will be a commitment to more a significant increase in our defense expenditures because of the precarious
global situation. We'll wait and see, but it'll just highlight the point that there are fast becoming big priorities for government spending and a lot of our increase and spendings have been around the domestic scene, which I don't think is sustainable.
Yeah, I thought.
Chris Mitchell had an excellent column in the Australian Today where he high i lighted some of the ludicrous areas of government spedding. So if you haven't read that yet at home, check it out in the Australian. All right, Warren Hogan, good to see you, and no doubt we hear your commentary about the budget on Sky tomorrow night. All Right, still to come? Could Jim Chalmers be the next Labor Party leader? Speculations heating up, plus new polling shows which states are swinging in Dutton's favor.
That's after the break, welcome back.
Well, it's shaping up to be a seat by seat and state by state election battle in May's federal campaign. The latest Freshwater Strategy polling shows that while the Coalition is in front in New South Wales, Victoria and Queensland, it's lagging behind elsewhere, particularly in WA. Will take us through this started joining me now is Freshwater Strategy director Leo Shanahan.
Leo, great to see you again.
Thank you for having me talk me through.
Which state is looking strongest for the Coalition at the moment and where Albanese's working hardest.
Yeah, well, I think Victoria is looking particularly strong for the Coalition the first time in a long time.
Just approchate.
Yeah, a real graveyard for the Coalition in recent years, but they are coming back. A lot of people are talking about the paucity of the government there, the Allen government, but also there is a general pushback against the federal government and I think Labour strategies have to be careful just to blame the Allen government.
There is a genuine.
Push on in Victoria for the Coalition. New South Wales is looking very positive as well.
Two pp.
That's actually higher than Victoria, but potential to pick up more seats in Victoria is a very good opportunity for the Coalition coming off a low base to be exactly exactly. But if they can pick up those seats in Victoria, it then rolls on into New South Wales and that's kind of really that path to victory that the Coalition.
Will then be talking about.
In Queensland, they're doing very well a forty five fifty five two pp in Queensland.
But fewer seats for them to be up because the Coalition, I mean Queenslands are ready the stronger state exactly.
So where do they go In Queensland, there's a couple of those Green seats to pick up. Perhaps Ryan was a definite candidate there, but hold Labor out the problem for them at the moment and where there was hope and look that's still there and I have to push on. This is why the campaign is going to matter is Western Australia Labor government there the government held up extremely well by and large in the state election, even though there was a significant swing actually against the government.
They just didn't lose that many seats.
Is about it.
So I mean, in a way, that's a reflection, isn't it of the cost of living crisis, which doesn't seem to be biting wly way as hard as the East Coast states.
Yeah, and it's a very good point because when you look at right direction wrong direction, which is a very good indicator of where people are at in the country, it's those states New South Wales fifty four percent of people say that go in the wrong direction.
Fifty seven percent of people say we're going in the wrong direction. In Queensland. In Victoria it's sixty four percent heading in the wrong stage.
Country is heading the wrong direction it's just an indicator of how hard people are doing it in that state and how unhappy they up.
With the government.
West Australian it's only fifty three percent, and whilst that's not significantly lower, it still shows that maybe West Australians are as happy unhappy as the rest of us.
Yeah.
Now, housing which is obviously closely linked housing affordability closely linked to the cost of living crisis also issues about high immigration, whether we've had too much immigration putting more pressure on housing supply. So now tell us about older voters because this is surprisingly a key issue up with the younger voters.
The cost of housing and rent eclipses groceries as the top priority when it comes to cost of living.
Right among older voters.
Power bills are a massive issue now that goes to priorities fixed costs.
You know you're an older voter.
You probably own your own house already or have larger proportion, but you're worried about those fixed costs. Younger voters are very worried about their future in terms of their ability to buy housing in the future for themselves and their family. Older voters, interestingly are more concerned about availability than they are about cost of housing as well, and I think a lot of that's generational. Well, my family, my children won't be able to live in the same city as me.
If you want me to move, where am I going to move to?
Or maybe in regional areas exactly might be the same city, same state.
But exactly having a seat to Younger people can move, they're more mobile, so they worry.
About the cost.
So leo based on I mean, you've been doing a series of polls, monthly polls. Now, where do you think this election's going.
Are you going to put your neck out it?
Because everyone is just saying hung parliament or minority Labor government, it's the safe prediction.
Well, I hate to be boring, but that is the prediction I would give at the moment. I mean, the coalition has had a less positive few weeks. Labour's had a better couple of weeks. The Prime Minister was elevated very much in that in that hurricane, in the cyclone situation that wasn't a cyclone in yet, but so that helped him.
Somewhat bizarrely because he spent it in canber He wasn't even in Queensland. Yeah, Well, with the people battling the tropical cyclone.
But nonetheless, if he didn't give.
Him a boost, I think what will happen Sharry is will get a good idea that in the next couple of weeks where that vote is starting to move, no doubt the campaign is really going to matter, and that's why campaigns do matter. The budget will be interesting. Queensland's a good example. You can throw giveaways at the electorate. We saw in Queensland literal free lunches and bus rides. The electric will take that, so thank you very much. That doesn't mean they're going to vote for you.
Indeed, and we have started to see some of that free money with the promise of another one hundred and fifty dollars off power bills.
I don't know who would believe it seeing his the first two.
Hundred and seventy five dollars hasn't come off yet, but you never know. Maybe people who don't watch Sky every night. Thanks interviews Leash Shannon, I'm great to see you all. Right after the break are the Prime Minister's days as Labor leader numbered no matter the election Outcolm speculations already starting at plus Our political panel give their prediction for where the campaign is headed.
That's next.
Welcome back. But we're now about to enter the most crucial time in the election contest, with the polls set to be called any day now. Now the Coalition just can't afford train wreck interviews like this one where Angus Taylor struggled to specify just how much it would cost to build a nuclear power plant.
Have a look what it's going to cost Australia to build nuclear power forty four percent less than the alternative, which is and this is the crucial point around. You know those numbers they were put out by later around six hundred million dollars what your plan costs, so forty four percent less that the alternative we've put forward, which we've modeled, We've put out the costings. So what is the forty four percent lower cost tells?
What's just how people can understand what the cost.
Is, well, forty four percent less labour six hundred billion in total for the system through to twenty fifty.
Sixty billion on that.
Okay, let's bring in our Monday Political Panel with Scott Morrison's former Media advisor, Headline Advisory Director Andrew Carswell and Bill Shotton's form A chief of Staff GXO Strategies Director Carara Milnat. Great to see you both now, Andrew. The Coalition has to get its act together on these costing figures.
Yeah, Sharia, it was certainly a little sloppy and I think has just got caught in the weeds a little bit too much and you won't be able to get away with that in the campaign. It's lucky that that's kind of happening now. But there is no doubt that the Coalition needs to be sharper on its messaging when it comes to its energy plan. It needs to be sharper when it comes to its messaging on the economy. There is absolutely no doubt about that. But what I do like.
What what I do like is that there.
Is an energy plan emerging from the Coalition, and maybe a couple of weeks months late, but there is now a coherent energy plan that they can put forward to the Australian people, and that is threefold. It is energy bill relief in the short term. It is getting more gas out of the ground and keeping more gas here domestically that will bring prices down in the short term.
And it is the long term plan which we've always talked about with their nuclear plans that will bring down prices are the long term, so it's always been focused on that long term issue. Now they're starting to build out the capability in the short term. And the gas plan is so critical to their messaging because it talks
about the here and now. How do we get energy prices down Now we get more gas out of the ground, we keep more gas here because gas sets the price in the Australian market at the moment because there's a low supply. So the plan is on track, We've just got to be able to explain it properly.
Cameron.
I think the change since the last selection is in twenty twenty two. You know, people seemed well, voters were happy enough to go along with the renewable energy plan that was being put forward by the likes of your mate Chris Bowen. But now there's been a few years of a cost of living crisis. People want cheaper bills,
that's the focus. So they might be looking at a nuclear energy policy if they do believe it's more cost effective then going along with, you know, the vision that Chris Bowen was selling before.
Well, I think nuclear has got a place. I think we all support the fact that at least one political party has actually come to the modern age and said nuclear should be there by twenty fifty and we should get to net zero by using nuclear power along with renewables, along with gas, along with other resources. But as Andrew and I were discussing the other night, it's about the here now. The coalition has got to come up with a plan for the here and now, and I'm not
sure it's just gas, Andrew. I think it's got to be keeping coal for longer. I mean MINS is doing it even to sit to Allen, and Victoria is extending coal fire based load power. So labor governments are doing it elsewhere. And I think if they got on the bandwagon and said call for longer, to give that transition to make sure we keep power prices down and people in jobs and manufacturing Australia, then that would be a really credible energy plan.
You said the other night, you're taking my Monday Night panel.
To the stage of the Opera House. You did a live event at.
The Opera House, the panel from here. Wish we were there, but good to see you. You picked up the debate. Now I want to talk about the next labor leader for the federal party. Now there's a ready speculation about you know, if which side loses the election, who's going to be the leader? Is dotting it a stay leader if they lose. And likewise, if Albo loses or if he wins Bob by a small margin margin, who's going to take over?
Now. Jim Chalmers was asked about this yesterday. Have a look.
I spent absolutely no time thinking about what I would do if we lost the election. I'd much rather be the Treasurer of Australia than the leader of the opposition. And we've got a lot of good communicators in our cabinet and in our party room broadly, and we work together very very close.
Yeah, Andrew Clenel did well in that interview. Andrew, what do you think?
Well, I think I think Jim is the natural leader that will come after Albow. Assuming Albout goes to a minority government, you would anticipate it he would only last twelve to eight a months. And then you look at the likes of Jim. Jim is their best communicator. But the problem with Jim is he doesn't have the supporting caucus that others do.
You have to look at the likes of Tony.
Burt to realize where the power actually resides in the in the caucus posts Anthony Albanesi. It doesn't reside with Jim, it doesn't reside with It doesn't reside with Tanya plebisk, It doesn't reside with Chris Bart. It resides with Tony Burke, and not many people realize that. But when Anthony Abaneze he finally decides to either handout of the rains or is pushed out, his numbers will fall behind Tony Burke.
Cameron, what do you think about this? I mean, you'd think that the two candidates who would be most popular with the electorate would be Tanya plebisk as a female especially or Jim Chalmers.
But is that You're right?
Do you think the Labor Party numbers because of the way the factions work, would support someone like Tony Burke.
I don't think Labour wants to go to another election with a weak leader like Albanize ever. Again, I mean they are just living on teer hooks hoping that they somehow hold on the minority government having kind of owned this guy for the last three years and not done what the rud Gillard rug, which was If you fail as leader, you're out. This suld be the Labor Way in rich O's day, if you failed, you were gone.
Somehow in this parallel universe, Alba's managed to survive, but with three years to the next election, the Labor Caucus is free to actually do what they need to do and finish off Albow even if he survives as a minority government leader. And then it comes down the choice about who is the most popular and to Andrew's point, the best communicator. And I think there's ten Y Pleba
Sick and there's Jim Chalmers. I think the two of them on a dual ticket, either the leader or debu leader, whichever way it works the floor against Tony Burke, who is an extremist, absolute extremist.
Agreed, completely agree with that. And you know it's.
Interesting because there is unity in the Labor Party at the moment publicly, but behind the scenes.
You know, you're right, Cameron. People are so critical of the Prime.
Minister of Anthony Alberinezi for being weak, for making Darton look good because of Dudden's strength, although he does seem to have lost momentum in the past few weeks.
Andrew, where does Peter Dutton go from here?
How does he regain the momentum that he's sort of stalled on in the past couple of weeks.
Yeah, it's certainly been a tough couple of weeks. There's been a lot of missteps. There's been a lot of ill discipline kind of behavior. There's been thought bubbles, there's been brain farts, there's been all sorts of things. It's been a departure from the discipline we've seen all the way through this term, where Dunton has managed to hold things together very well in terms of discipline and unity.
But I think this is advantageous for the coalition. That may seem strange, but better this is happening now than in the midst of the campaign. Better that they're making they're stumbling out of the blocks now than the first, second, third week of the campaign where things actually matter, where people are actually watching.
They're not watching now.
So it's a huge advantage to the coalition to be going through this process now.
And I was putting a very good spin on it.
I have to say that's putting a very good spin on the past couple of weeks.
It's going to work for that they're certainly going to work for them.
All right, we'll see Andrea Kazo, Camra Milner, thank you boy so much. Now, after the break of big development out of the Middle East, Army Horowitz will join us live.
Okay, Now, let's.
Turn to the Middle East, where they've been huge developments. With Hamas being urged yet again to relinquish power, the Palestinian Authority President mum Abas has urged the terror group to see power in Gaza. He called an us to step aside from governing and fully recognize that the battle ahead will lead to the end of Palestinian's existence. Okay, well to discuss, let's bring in now filmmaker and commentator Army Herowitz. I'm be great to have you on the program.
You're in Israel right now. Look, the Palestinian Authority would of course be better than Hamas. But benjaminette naw who has said he doesn't think that this would be a good outcome for the new governing body in Gaza, what's your view here.
Yeah, let's be clear about a couple things. First thing is the Palaly Authority was in lockstep with Kamas in terms of the destruction of the state of Israel. An attack Israeli citizens. Right, how do we know that first of all, many attacks prior talks Ober seventh, in fact did M and eight from the Palasadi Authority, and the
Palsi Authority had up until a month ago. I wonder what happened a month ago to change that dynamic was paying Palastadian prisoners and their families who committed acts of terror in the state of Israel. Well, they've changed their tune a little bit. And that is not because or I just say it is directly because Donald Trump is President of the United States. They were held they were
not held accountable under the Biden administration. But now they understand that Trump is here and in business, they're taking a little bit more seriously and now trying to walk away from Hamas. Also, I want to make something very clear, like I've spent a lot of time in the Paladian Authority after October seventh talking to Palestidians on the street, and one thing I got to tell you is that support from Hamas was steadfast across the Palaestindian population.
This is the way this is in the West.
West Bank, correct, that's right. They see hamas as striking back against the Jews and against Israel and they love that.
Wow. So this is an issue.
And just to pick up on something you said that you were talking about this pay for slay policy where the Palestinian authority gives lifelong salaries or payments to the families of people who commit who become martyrs, who commit terror attacks, and so that's part of this perpetuating of
terrorism that's been such a problem. Now you've got a new documentary examining the ethics of the IDF, the Israeli Defense for US, Can you tell us what you found, what you concluded during your reporting and filming.
Yeah, it's so interesting when you listen and talk to people on the left or people who are ignorant about actually what's happening on the ground in Gaza, and they talk about, look have passed the children been killed? Of course they have, this is war. But I think at the end of the day, you had do do You have to look at the statistics, You have to look at data sets and see whether or not the IDF is acting.
In a moral way or an immoral way.
And looking at the data points, I got to say it's hard to make the argument the IDF, particularly in this conflict. I know it sounds crazy, but in this conflict itself, and in conflicts prior, one can make the argument they're the most ethical and moral army that has
ever existed. I'll give you an example. I'm talking about one data point which puts anything to rest that in general, when one goes to war, an urban warfare conflux, which is the most devastating of all warfare, because you're essentially fighting within a context of civilians surrounding everywhere you are, everywhere you attack, everyey you bomb, you are within a
civilian population. By definition of urban warfare, that when NATO goes to war, one will argue the most moral army that ever existed, whether it be the Europeans of the United States in Iraq or Afghanistan or in the Balkans, that ninety percent, nine out of ten of all casualties are in fact civilians, even though they're not trying to target civilians. I'm like, let's say the Russians now in Gaza, which is far more densely populated than Iraq or Afghanistan,
far more densely populated. Israel has a fifty percent casualty rate of civilians. Fifty percent their targets of their people who are killed are in fact who they're trying to target, and that is an incredibly high number. But of course Israel doesn't get any credit for that. They're called they're called Nazis. They're saying they're indiscriminately killing, They're saying it's genocide.
Nothing could be further from the truth. And we went into the area, We talked to the IDF, we look at data sets, we talked to soldiers who were there actually in the war itself, and they went through everything they go through in order to avoid killing civilian civilian people around Gaza. And in fact, we talked to US
military and European military leaders. They'll say Israel's giving away tactical advantages by doing the things that they're doing, for example, dropping leaflets, leaving maps where they're going.
To attack, next, next message.
This billains gotta be attacked, and so forth and so on.
Yes, sending text messages as well to entire buildings very quickly.
Where can people see.
Your documentary, because I'm sure a lot of people are very interested watching this now.
They can go on my YouTube and Amy Horowitz or Prager use YouTube and they could watch the full one there all right.
Great to have you on the show. Thank you so much for your time.
Now, if you missed the start of my show tonight, secret tapes capturing Top nine journalists speaking about breaching his own ethics in relation to the Ben Robert Smith case, head to our website. The video will be up shortly. The story is already there. I'll see you all tomorrow night. I'll be in camera for the budget. And here's Paul Murray.