Show, good evening.
Well coming up on the show tonight, and it's a massive show. Tonight Peter Dutton goes all in on nuclear We'll have a look at whether the polls.
Are on his side.
Also tonight, he was one of the country's most powerful bureaucrats. Former Home Affairs Boss Mike Bozzullo would join Me Live for an exclusive interview to discuss China's bullying of cheng Lei Albanizi's approach to China and the threat of war that coming up and in a special and emotional interview. Two survivors of the October seven massacre are on the show, a mother held at gunpoint and a local police officer who fought off terrorists and saved two hundred lives.
You don't want to miss that.
But first now to Peter Dutton's major nuclear energy plan, which has drawn fierce political battle lines.
As you know by now.
Peter Dutton today announced seven sites for nuclear reactors in Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria, WA and South Australia.
Here he was making that announcement, what will.
Happen in Osborne, where Premier Malanowski is signed up to the Orchest deal. There will be a reactor there where sub mariners in Australian uniforms will be sleeping in the submarine alongside the reactor in a safe way in Henderson in WA. Then Premier McGowan signed up to the Orchest deal where the nuclear reactors in the submarines will be there alongside residential and industrial areas. So those premiers have shown a level of pragmatism. Before we signed up to Orcust,
nobody believed that it could happen. Everyone said that the premiers wouldn't.
Agree to it.
They did, so we'll work with the premiers because it's in our national interest.
Well, the opposition to his policy today extensive, with every labor figure in the country opposing it in the strongest possible terms.
We know that mister Dutton wants to slow down the role out of renewables and he wants to introduce the most expensive form of energy that's slow to build. But today we've seen no costs, we've seen no gigawatts, we've seen no detail.
This is a joke.
It is the worst combination of economic and ideological stupidity.
We're not supporting nuclear power. I think our state laws are pretty clear when it comes to planning, but whether there's some overriding constitutional question that he can pursue.
Nuclear energy is toxic, it's risky, it's more expensive.
The announcement was always going to be controversial, and there will be a massive scare campaign from labor, no question.
I'm sort of staggered that we haven't heard aim and talk about three headed Fish and the Simpsons and Springfield, all the other things that you had to see a lot of over the next of a while, because we're going to have the mother of all scare campaigns that has played out before us over the next in a while.
And the scare campaign kicked off today.
Just like with medi scare, this emotional fear campaign could well be very effective. But what do these labor politicians say about the thirty two countries internationally which already rely on nuclear energy. Nuclear is a successful part of the energy mix in Canada, Mexico, the USA, Argentina, Brazil, Belgium, Finland, France, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the UK.
The list goes on.
Sky News reporter Annalie's Nielsen visited Canada's nuclear reactor sites to see their model, and it's said to be close to the one that Dutton is pursuing.
Nuclear power has been operating safely in Canada since the nineteen sixties. The province of Ontario has three nuclear facilities that generates around sixty percent of the energy here and is often held up as the model to export to Australia.
But Peter Dutton left himself open to attack today by refusing to detail the cost of this policy. At least of the moment, it unquestionably will be expensive, but then so is the renewable energy transition. There are also remaining questions about nuclear waste now. It was Anthony Albanesi himself, as part of Kevin Rudd's team in opposition, who campaigned against.
Nuclear in two thousand and seven.
At the time, Ziggi Switkowski recommended to John Howard, who is the PM, that Australia consider nuclear as part of its action to curb emissions or John Howard, facing a loss at the two thousand and seven election, dropped the policy. But before that there were TV ads campaign posters just like this advert from August two thousand and seven.
John Howard says a nuclear industry is a solution to climate change, but he won't say where the reactor should go. He refuses to talk about a list of possible sites for reactors that includes Rockhampton, Bunderberg, Mackay, Townsville, the Sunshine Coast, even Brydie Island, Queensland. Beautiful one day, nuclear the next.
And that was a very effective scare campaign back in two thousand and seven. Well, Albinizi ran the campaign. He knows this area well and he won't hesitate to strike again.
What's your number one reason? What's your number one message to people who live in and around loy Yang, which is the site of a potential nuclear reactor.
What would you say to them.
That a nuclear reactor is fifteen years away and will drive up power prices, lead to more energy and security, and lead to less jobs being created. Every economic analysis says it doesn't stack up, and that's why it's extraordinary that they continue to go down this track.
Well, he doesn't mention that Labor has already signed up to nuclear powered submarines as part of the Orchest deal. He also doesn't mentioned that thirty two other countries around the world, as I said, rely on nuclear as part of their energy mix. And never mind that his solution
renewable energy won't meet our energy needs alone. What Political editor Simon Benson notes today that the more hysterical the Prime Minister and his colleagues are inclined to become, the more he is lured into presenting as an opposition leader rather than a prime minister. And Simon Benson says that the nuclear plan is a platform for Peter Dutton's rebrand as a leader. He writes that it shifts the dynamic from a coalition opposition always opposed to things, as to
one fighting for something. Well, this may be the case, but ultimately the nuclear debate presents the greatest political risk for Peter Dutton, who's in recent times been surging ahead of Albanezi in the polls. It's virtually unprecedented to have such a significant policy contest ahead of a federal election. Both leaders say that the next election will be a referendum on nuclear energy.
I'm very happy for the election to be a referendum on energy, on nuclear on power prices, on lights going out.
As we agree, the next election will be a referendum on energy policy. Mister Dutton says the next election will be a referendum on energy policy. We actually agree with that. But here's the news for mister Dutton have a referendum, You've gotta have a policy.
Well, without rob and easy proving himself to be a failure of a leader who has destroyed Australian's social cohesion and is incapable of governing effectively, Well, if he executes this scare campaign properly, it just could be a lifeline for him in choosing to pursue this policy contest.
The stakes for Peter Darton are as high as they can get. All Right, As I said, it's a big show.
I've got an exclusive interview with Mike Bozzullo coming up. Also two survivors of the Nova Music Festival.
But first let's discuss this nuclear debate.
Let's bring it now Tonight's Political Panel National Senate Leader Bridget McKenzie and the Menzies Research Center Executive director Dave Hughes.
Welcome to you both.
Bridget, do you think this is a gamble worth taking for the Coalition?
Absolutely, Sharion, I really loved your opening segment. We don't see it as a gamble. We see it as providing a credible vision for a safe and prosperous, sustainable future for our country. We're not just interested getting to net zero by twenty fifty. We still want to be a sovereign country that cannot just keep the lights on but have a fantastic economic growth story in the coming century,
and that means having affordable, reliable baseload power generation. Now, with ninety percent of that reliable baseload going off in the next decade, we need something to replace it, and wind and solar aren't going to do it. We know that, and I'm very, very proud to be part of a team that is putting Australia where it should have been during Howard's years and actually harnessing the opportunity that nuclear power generation brings in a low emissions future.
Dave, just how big a risk this is for the coalition ultimately comes down to the current view of a Australians and whether they are going to support this.
Can you tell us a bit.
About what some of the recent polls have shown about whether Australians do support a move towards.
Nuclear A lot has changed since that Scare campaign that Anthony Alberanesi ran in two thousand and seven. Back then, sixty percent of Australians were opposed to nuclear energy. In twenty twenty four sixty percent of Australians support nuclear energy. We know that because the Low Institute has been tracking this issue for a number of years. Labor voters as well support nuclear energy. There was a pole from Jim Reed.
Some of them.
There was a pole from Jim Reid who runs Resolved Strategic recently as well, it showed that only twenty percent of labor voters were opposed to nuclear energy. So the grounds for a scare campaign are significantly different than they were in two thousand and seven. So that's something that
Anthony Alberanesi needs to factor in. He also needs to factor in that if he's running a scare campaign around nuclear safety, that scare campaign also undermines the orcut submarines that are going to be docked in Adelaide and in Perth, our nuclear reactor that's operated safely not too far from us in southwestern Sydney as well, So he's going to have to be conscious of that if he's looking to run another scare campaign.
And do you think though, this is going to be a big political risk.
I mean, you ran at least the media section of the Liberal Party's last federal election campaign or the past couple do you think this is a big gamble for the coalition.
Well, it's going to dominate. It's going to be one of the issues that's going to dominate the next campaign, that's for sure. Peter Dutton's been open about this so for the last year, and in that same time his vote has strengthened and Anthony Alberonizi's vote's been declining. And I think younger Australians in particular, aren't you know, they place facts above fear as well. They're more open to
nuclear as well. So I think they're going to be persuaded by the facts in this argument and not spooked by three eyed fish and everything else that Labor will roll out.
All right, let's have a look at Labor and p Josh Burns And as you know by now, his federal office was vandalized overnight by pro Palestinian activists. It was what the Jewish MP called a politically motivated attack.
Have a look. No amount of aggression and violence.
Here in Australia is going to change what's happening in the Middle East. This sort of vandalism, this sort of political aggression, has no place in Australia.
It's enough.
Bridget you know what I found so moving about Josh's comments when he held that press conference earlier today is that he made the point that if action isn't taken, there is going to be an attack, that this is escalating, something worse is going to happen. And we are seeing lawlessness in part because our political leaders and the police aren't doing anything.
They're not arresting anyone.
No, Shari, you know we've talked about this a lot. You're exactly right. The permissiveness, if I can use that word, of state governments, state police forces, and indeed the language being used by the federal government has allowed given tacit approval, shall we say, in people expressing their views in this conflict at home here domestically in ways that I think
a reminiscent of the nineteen thirties in Germany. I've been appalled, as you have been, as you've highlighted over many, many months, what's happening on our suburban streets, in our schools, at our universities, in businesses that you would have been appalled and shocked about in previous decades that today are being almost tacitly approved or sort of waved way as if we're all helpless in the face of this sort of behavior.
We're not.
We have laws, stop keeping the peace and start up holding the law.
Well said, absolutely agree. And what worries me as well, Dave, is that it's not it's a.
Targeting of Jewish people.
And we saw it just yet again overnight with Jerry Seinfeld. You know he's not a representative of Israel. He's just a Jewish comedian. And well, let's have a look at what happened again at his show last night.
You're getting them on your side, can you hear it?
Good?
There's the police say you have.
Shown political feelings, but you don't know where you say that.
Do you think that ruining the name?
It doesn't affect me?
All these people.
You're ruining their name. Thank you for Tommy.
Did you like the horse bit before you leave?
Did you get.
So good?
Did you like the whole bit before you left?
I wish we could obvious see his show, But Dave, you know it strikes me and I made this point the other night that Jerry Seinfeld has a better grasp of security than our Australian federal police. He manages to move the pro Palestinians out. Why can't our police do the same.
He got them out there quicker than Sydney University. Yes, that's for sure. As you said before, Shari, he's not out here as a representative of the Israeli government or the Israeli Defense Force. He's not a commentator, a prolific commentator on foreign policy issues. He's out here as a comedian to entertain. And the reason he was targeted by activists is because he's a Jew, and that's something we
can't tolerate. And I'll be making the same point that that's equally concerning if it was a Muslim comedian targeted solely on the basis of their religion as well, that is something that we cannot tolerate in Australia.
In twenty twenty four, Absolutely absolutely, bridget I couldn't believe this story in the City Morning Herald. Former Prime Minister Scott Morrison has been denied entry at least at the moment, but currently he has been denied entry from the Elite Australian Club. Now this is a controversial club, but the club secretary, Michael Solomon, said that they have a policy of not commenting on membership nominations.
Ridget this is outrageous. He's a former prime minister. You might not agree with his politics, but his service to our country has been enormous.
This is true, Sharry. But you and I can't join the Australia Club either. Let's remember that if I was the Prime minister. If I was the Prime Minister, I wouldn't be able to join the Australia clubs.
So and we do have a.
Former premier here in Victoria that's been unable to join a golf club down south of our place. So I do think at the end of the day, these are private entities, for good or for ill, that make these sort of decisions. And you know, I think former PM's, former servants of our country, no matter what side of politics, should be able to join these type of establishments. But I'd be arguing that I would hope that a future female Prime minister would also be able to join the Australia Club one day.
Yes, indeed, that those are well made points. I have been for lunch there once or twice, and I don't know why everyone's to join as well.
It's a bit stiff, it's a bit boring.
I don't remember there being any atmosphere or music or great food.
So there are other clubs I'd love to join.
Come on, Dad, I share that view and I'm not a member of Dilas.
I'm not a member, but I.
Don't really think it's Scott.
I don't think it's.
Scott Morrison's style either. He's happy in shorts watching the footy, so I'm not sure it's really his style anyway.
Look, he applied, did he apply?
Did he apply?
Well, the reporting says he did apply, So if he applied, the fact that they rejected him but not the likes of Malcolm Turnbull says a lot. All right, Bridget Mackenzie, Dave Hughes, it's very Sydney. Yes, great to have you both on tonight now, just before we got a break in a major development, Lisa Wilkinson is seeking to challenge a finding made against her in the Bruce Lehman defamation case.
The Projects former star has filed to appeal against Justice Michael Lee's finding that she and ten acted unreasonably and unfairly when pursuing the Brittney Higgins story, and she claims the judge made more than fifty errors in the Bruce Lehman failed defamation case against her and Network ten. The Australian reports today that Justice Lee made a number of errors in its findings of her conduct and about the rape of Britney Higgins by mister Lherman.
So yet again, that story never seems to end.
Now, coming up, Mike Puzzullo will join me live in an exclusive interview. I'll ask him about China's bullying of Cheng Lai. Plus later in the show, I'll speak to two survivors of the October seven attack.
By Hamask you don't want to miss that interview. Welcome back.
Well, we saw this week that Chinese officials tried to bodyblock Australian journalist Chang Lay at a press briefing, and then we learned today that Cheng Lay was actually barred completely from attending another press event with the Chinese premier. This time it was his meeting with Peter Dutton. Cheng l wrote on Sky News that Australia is appeasing China
and she's not surprised by it. She said, for a moment, it reminded me of being in residential surveillance, where shifts of two guards were glued to me every minute of the day. Anthony Alberdezi wanted to make this visit by the Chinese premier all about pandas and penfolds. But when the Chinese officials felt emboldened on our soil to bully Cheng lay Well, the Prime Minister failed to f fiercely protect his Australian citizen or our values of freedom of
the press. It seems like China may have already bought Australia's silence despite its foreign interference, it's espionage, its extensive malicious cyber attacks, and its appalling human rights abuses where whistleblowers and journalists regularly disappear, and Muslim wigas are subject to terrible treatment in slave labor camps. As I said on Monday night, Albinizi condemns our democratic ally in Israel more than he does the greatest aggressor in our region, China.
To discuss this in more, former Home Affair Secretary and longtime powerful diplomat Mike Buzzulo joins me now for an exclusive interview.
Mike, thank you very much and welcome to the program.
Look, I want to start with this incident, this treatment of Cheng Lei this week by the Chinese officials.
What's reaction to what happened.
Well, like most Australians, if not all Australians, I was appalled, particularly in the case of the first incident. That main Committee room, which is in the center of Parliament House, for those of your viewers who've never been there, is where parliamentary inquiries are held, estimates, hearings and the like. It's actually the citadel of our democratic scrutiny, our parliamentary scrutiny of the executive. And to have in that room
that body blocking occurring, I thought it was disgraceful. It was appalling. I do want to applaud the quick witted actions by the officers. I believe that they're from the Prime Minister's Department who were trying as best as they could with grace, dignity, and I think very good judgment to try, without making a big scene, to try to move the particularly the tall blue suited gentlemen on and those officers should be I think praised for their charm,
their grace, their dignity, but also their result. It shouldn't come to that in that room. I've sat in that room many many times, been quizzed by senators. Perhaps it's an alien practice for officials from communist China to comprehend the idea of officials being the subject of scrutiny, particularly in that room. I was appalled.
Indeed, well, what about how the Prime Minister reacted to this? He was asked about it in a couple of media interviews. What did you make of his response?
Ohl Shari, You have to excuse me these days, I'm a retired Canbra pensioner. I don't sort of follow the day the day to day media monitoring in the way that I used to. I have read some discussion and some commentary that suggests that initially there was a degree of dismissal, and then there was a hardening of the position where the government seems to have got to, which is to register a strong complaint, is where we should
have started. The only thing I noticed in the commentary that I do want to make a point of and take some exception to, is any suggestion that we should be putting that this is somehow comprehensible or indeed excusable on the base of different political values or different political systems. No, our house, our rules. They need to understand, coming into our territory, our terrain, that they behave according to our
principles and rules. I've got no doubt that if the government has said that complaints have been lodged, that that's been done and done hopefully candidly. I'm sure it's been done candidly, but we shouldn't dismiss it through some sort of political or cultural relativism.
I think we're seeing it, and you've noted this a tendency by the Albanezi government to deal with all of these different incidences in isolation. So whether it's Chang Lai's bullying or the sonar attack on our navy divers, or Chinese aggression towards Filipino fishing vessels, all dealt with in isolation. But when you put it together, Mike Bozulo, what's the nature of the China that we currently face.
Well, the character of the regime matters, and what I'm going to say or what I'm about to say Shari is not a reflection on Chinese culture. The Chinese people, who like us, go about their lives seeking the best for their families, drawing on their rich historical traditions and doing the best they can to build a better future.
That this is not about the Chinese people, but the regime is a Leninist communist regime that believes in the absolute authority of the party, the absolute authority of the party to control all organs, not just of the states,
but also the economy, the culture, and indeed politics. And therefore it's such a dissimilar regime that if we don't put at the center of our analysis the character of that regime, we're going to get it wrong every time, and we're going to be surprised by these individual events, Whereas what we should be doing is aggregating a view
of the regime, particularly in three dimensions. One strategic its strategic goal is to push the United States out of the Indo Pacific and to start to dictate terms to the countries that are in the Indo Pacific, including Australia. But whether it's Japan, whether it's the Philippines, whether it's countries in Asia and Australia, and we can get to
those strategic issues in the moment if you wish. Secondly, their interference in their own economy, and they're weaponizing of their economy such that they're distorting supply chains, whether it's pharmaceuticals or other components that are critical or they're introducing risk into technology such as five G that basically a lot of their products and services become untrustworthy. That is
a function of the character of the regime. And thirdly, that political and cultural relativism that I spoke of earlier. There's a paradox here, Shari, that is at one level mind blowing for Marxists who believe in objective forces of history and that there's only one objective truth for them to say. But actually civilizations are different and we can all have our own politics, and these so called Western
norms are culturally specific to the West. What like parliamentary scrutiny of the executive courts, the rule of law, the prevention of arbitrary detention, etc. The ability of people to go to courts and have decisions taken by officials overturned. I think we should be standing up for the universality of those principles and not accepting that relativism. So it's the character of the regime that I'm drawing attention to. Shari.
You've just said that if we don't realize the threat the reality of China, we risk getting it wrong. Do you think we're getting it wrong at the moment? And you know, I'll just draw your attention to the current government's approach to China. I mean, we see the Prime Minister often use catch phrases like that we need to disagree where we must, and that we've stabilized relations. But are we actually disagreeing where we must? Or do you think China has effectively bought our silence?
I think it's I think there's some nuance here that
we just quickly need to tease out. I think if we fall into the trap of making the relationship purely bilateral, that is to say, not engaging in building coalitions and in building and banding together without other like mindeds, we will fall into a trap where for the sake of improvements in trade which are not to be sneezed that although it does pass range that we're applauding the lifting of restrictions that never should have been put in place
in the first place, if they are truly trade restrictions as opposed to weaponizing, for instance, the trading lobsters or the trade in wine. But let's leave that to one side. Those barriers being lifted are good the exporters here who supply high quality produce. It's great that they're going to get back into those markets, but we shouldn't accept that that's normal behavior. We're turning those trade linkages into political weapons, and then having those barriers lifted is something for us
to applaud and congratulate. The Chinese approach is to divide and conquer. What they want is a bilateral relationship with everyone other than the Americans, because they realize that the Americans are a great power.
Such apologies for interrupting, but just to bring you back to the point, do you think in the Australian government, the Albanezy government seeking to get China to lift those trade sanctions, which, as you say, should never have been in place in the first instance, in getting them to do that, have they effectively bought our silence, our subjugation.
No.
And this is the point I was just about to get to, and I apologize for meandering a little bit along the way. Getting those bilateral winds is important. The
thing is what do you do after that? Having stabilized the relationship, having normalized it, which is the other word that's used for those who propose or propound this approach, you then can't retract from the banding together that was in evidence in the recent past, such as through the Quad, the work we've been doing with Japan and the Philippines calling them out on the origins of COVID, for instance.
In other words, if we trade away those multilateral or regional groupings and the bandings in order to gain these bilateral benefits which really aren't benefits because they shouldn't have been punishments in the first place. Anyway, that's where I think we're at risk of policy failure. In other words, yes, the bilateral engagement is fine. Having the visit here is fine, notwithstanding the atrocity in our parliament in relation.
To chang Lay.
Having those trade having that trade engagement is fine. It's what you do next that I'm concerned about.
What are you concerned about?
Well, are we going to pause, be reticent and pull back on things like building the capacity for American forces and Australian forces to operate out of Australia in wartime conditions, which is at the heart of our forced posture initiatives B fifty two bombers going into Tindal, the submarines, the rotational force going into Sterling. These are very good initiatives.
You think as a risk, you think China would be pushing for us pull back on those things.
I've got no doubt. I've got no evidence at all that we are pausing. We're probably not going as fast on those things as we should. We need to probably up the tempo. China, in their dream state of Australia, would have Australia absolutely renouncing all of those initiatives. They would prefer that we would close down the joint facilities. They would prefer that we didn't have any of those forced posture initiatives with the Americans.
I just want to get to a couple of other areas, and we don't have too much time left. You are the principal author of the two thousand and nine Defense White Paper, and in it you pointed out the future military threat posed by China.
Are we prepared for war now?
Well, regrettably, that was fifteen years ago. We should have upped the tempo of both our defense spenders, as well as the bringing into commission and service of large the large platforms, things like the twelve large submarines, the general purpose frigates that were announced in that white paper. That opportunity was lost fifteen years ago, and indeed since so it's on both sides of politics. It's now too late to bring those platforms into the time frames that we need.
So we need to rethink with a larger fleet of perhaps more basic capabilities, such as drones, to act as substitutes, because we don't have ten to fifteen years to build up that kind of force. So it does concern me. And given that we've got a policy of defense self reliance where we don't want to rely on the combat assistance of the United States or indeed anyone else, it troubles me that there's some glaring gaps now, as I've written about for aspe, in relation to things like missile defense.
In other words, if we had to deploy missile defense batteries, we could only deploy American ones into Australia to defend our own territory against ballistic missile and other forms of missile strike. That is concerning.
Well, just before you go, Mike bizillo Are reported a few months ago that there's a push to strip you of your Order of Australia award and that they've written a show calls letter to you, a formal letter.
Does this disappoint you.
Well before it potentially disappoints me if that action is going to be taken. It slightly puzzled me. I've gone back and sought reasons. They weren't really very particular about the reason. So I've left it there, and I've probably given that a subject of a confidential process. I would prefer to say not much more than that. But before I get disappointed about it at the moment, choose to be puzzled about it.
Yeah, puzzled it, And it does sound like perhaps engaging in that formal confidential process. Mike Bizula, really appreciate you coming on the show to talk about this very important issue of the threat of China and how we deal with it as a nation.
Really appreciate your time this evening.
Well, after the break, we've got a lot coming up to Survivors of the October seven attacks by Hamas will join me live in the studio. They are incredible stories of resilience, an overcoming unthinkable fear at the hands of terrorists. You don't want to miss it. Stay tuned, welcome back. Well, it was the brutal, barbaric massacre that shook us all around the world and started Israel's war against her muss
that's now been raging for eight months. At the Nova Music Festival on October seven, two hundred and sixty innocent people were murdered. Among the partygoers was thirty four year old mother Mozale Tazazo. She'd arrived at the festival with friends on the Friday night. By the next morning, she was left unconscious, her life only spared because terrorists thought she was already dead.
And it's no surprise.
Why if you have a look at this distressing photo of how these barbarians left Muzzle bloody and bruised after being knocked unconscious and left for hours just meet us away. On the same shocking morning was Muslim Israeli police officer Ramo al Jozael, who fought off Hamasa's automated weapons with only a pistol in his hand. A true hero, Ramo saved over two hundred lives. Both Mazal and Rama I hear in Australia and they joined me to speak about what happened.
That day just a bit earlier.
Muzzle, Ramo, thank you both so much for joining me today. Muzzle, you were there with two friends at the Nova Music Festival on October seven. Can you tell us when you first knew that something was seriously wrong.
When we tried to get to the main world, the hell world, you know, and it was very big, a.
Traffic jam that don't move.
And this moment we start to hear the gunshots and we tried to pass on the land and drive between the trees, but we stuck because it was big and deep pits, and we saw policemen that's shooting, and we get it that they don't shooting to the air. They shooting because they see something that I don't see. But in the time you hear the gunshots come and be louder,
the voice of the Arabic coming, be coming closer. So we are bended our car and run to the road to the road, but the terroists come from the side too, so they like closing us.
So you were running.
Initially you thought it was a traffic jam. You then realized it was a better class and you were running trying to escape with your two choirs friends. We sted the music festival to celebrate and have a good time.
What happened next, so my friends and me try to cover ourselves with plants, but they and found us. I was with my face on the ground, like put my hand like this, and the terrorists come found us, and he said in English, get up, get up, get up, yo yo yo, and I get the back of the weapon to my head and this hand like blow up. She saved me because they from the heat also my head open and they started tied to my legs and start to talk with each other in Arabica. I wasn't conscious,
don't get at what's happening. I know that I need to play dead. That's it. And he come to check me. Look at me, I hold my breath and they pick up my fast look at me, I guess and they go. And after they go, I lose my conscious two hours and when I woke up, I saw my friends die next to me.
I want to go back to that moment when the terrorists came to see if you were alive, when I started tying your legs together, and you made the decision to pretend to be dead, and that ultimately has saved your life.
I don't know anything, like, I don't get it what he's doing, don't get it the things that touch in me in this moment, But I know that I need to play dead. I don't know how to explain because the brand don't think is don't do things with conscience, only this. And even when he come to me, I was with the white short because all my hands blow up, so my bag was blad and when she he come close to me to check me, I was thinking only
about that stomach moving. After that, they burn all the buges and I wait until the fire come close to me, and I need to choose or burn alive or run to the road or get inside to the car I saw. So I run like a crazy and I was in this car. The terrors don't see me and don't shut on the car. At Lack two hour entail. Some angel come and take me Keller and rescued you. Yeah, chance three afternoon.
Such an remarkable story of survival and for you to be here now in Australia sharing it with all of us, it's just incredible. Now, Maza, while you were hiding, you took six minutes of footage.
Just two days ago you realized that.
Ramo over here, an Israeli police officer, was in that footage.
Ramo, tell us what you were doing on October seven.
On October seven, I arrived to the Pestival Nova six twenty two, eight minutes before it all started six thirty thousands of rockets. It's the first time I'm doing a shift in Festival Nova. You know, in the police Israel police force, you can get extra money if you go to guard a football game, a festival game. So it was my first time in the five years that time in the police force as an investigator. And from there fifteen hours of fighting and the rescuing and rescuing.
It was a.
Hell of a day.
How many terrorists did you come up against? It in those hours.
In the Pestival Nova It was thirty six cups with olive pistols against three hundred and fifty terrorists. They were heavily armed. In the Nova party, there were four thousand, teenage innocent young people that only wanted to have fun, to party together, and.
You spent your time trying to fight the terrorists and rescue as many people as you could. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, And what sort of brutality did you come up against? I mean, you've said, this is nothing like anything else you've ever come across in your life.
Can you share with.
Australians who are hearing international aid organizations trying to deny the violence against women, the brutality by her mask. Can you tell us some of what made this so different, so unlike anything else you'd ever fought against.
In the party, you had the Jews, Muslims, christian drews from all over the world having fun, put together, and the trees didn't care if your Muslim Christian drews. All they wanted to do is to kill as much as they can, kidnap as much as they can, and make a lot of destruction on that day. For example, the first citizen victim was a Bedoing. She was pregnant with hejab and they shot her multi times. They didn't care. Is that she is a pregnant Yeah. Also from my
biggest beding city in Israel, many came to say to help. Unfortunately, some of them killed on the road and some of them kidnapped until today I will not say the family name, but some of them until kidnam So there are still.
Muslim hostages right now being held by Harmas and Gaza. This isn't just a war against Jews. This is all Israelis. And I think that's something that many people forget, that about twenty percent is that right of the Israeli population is.
Muslim neighbors living together. I study in a Jew school.
You are Muslim yourself name of Muslim, myself.
I'm bedoing Swiss Muslim.
But proudly Israeli exactly.
Yeah, Marsil, can you tell me about the moment a couple of days ago when you realized that you had this extraordinary connection with Ramar.
Wow, he not saved only two hundred, two hundred, they say, my time, two hundred people from the party He and their inhap friends save many more like me that hiding that don't know what's happening. And only because we saw a policeman that's shotting we get it that, Wow, something is very big happening here. And another thing I live two years in Jerusalem, the fact that I am a black woman and my parents come from Ethiopia, like and
they immigrant. I'm burn in Israel and rest in Israel all my life in school and all my friends from all the colors and sewers in Israel and Jerusalem with Arab life, our friends. And after the other festival, I have really afraid. I'm scared because it's triggered for me. And when I know Remo and this story and the person he is, the fear that I have is less because I know and Israel I have Muslim that fight, that know the true and maybe is what you know save us all of this.
It's crazy. The world have to know that we deal with monsters.
Is not about the land, is not about like people screen free Palestine because they care about the Palestine.
And I really understand that.
But the Drahmas use them, you know, they use them the Palestine. It's not us, like we have to understand that. If you want to help us, help us to done with the Hamas.
What's your message on.
That day on seventh October, that Black day? You saw that everyone needs well Jews, Muslims, Christian Jews, everyone's tend together defend the home together against that pilateau. It was like everyone walked like one unit, team, one book, one family against family. Yeah exactly.
Yeah, And look, I have to say that's how I and all of my viewers feel as well, that we are one family with both of you.
Thank you both. Having the courage to be here.
And to share your stories publicly so extraordinary and it must be so hard for them to relive the most traumatic moment in their lives over and over again, because they are telling their story to raise awareness about what happened on October seven, because the rest of the world just wants to forget about it and move on, including our own government.
Well after the.
Break, former chief executive of Australia's National Nuclear Organization will join me to speak about today's big policy and now statute. Well, let's return to today's top story. Now Opposition leader Peter Dutton confirming the location for seven nuclear reactor sites if
he wins the next election. Anthony Albanezi was quick to slam the policy, but to take the politics out of the equation, let's bring in now the former Chief Executive of the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organization, Adie Patterson.
Adie, welcome to the show.
Look, Australia actually has the world's largest deposits of uranium, almost one third of the global total as I understand it, Yet all of that valuable resource is currently exported. Do you think this is a reason why it might make sense to have a nuclear energy industry of our own here?
It does make sense. I mean we could develop the ability to make nuclear fuel that adds a huge amount of value, about a thousand times to the uranium ore that we send out in the form of yellow cake at the moment, I think it's really important to recognize that uranium is powering all of the lowest carbon reliable energy in the world, apart from hydropower which is about the same size, and some geothermal in a place like the North of New Zealand, but the lowest reliable, always
on power comes from uranium, and a chunk of that is dug out of the ground and processed into yellow cake and shipped out of the country.
Look, are there still concerns about nuclear waste and what to do with it? Should we develop seven nuclear reactors here in Australia.
Well, I think I'll talk first about the reactor technology and its safety, because if you can't have the reactors, you can't have the wasst And I think it's really important to recognize eyes that the gen cost report of CSIRO, the premiers on on SBS tonight, work with something called the levelized cost of electricity, that's the cost of electricity at the fence before you put it into the grid. Okay, there's published engineering data for re search. It's been done
in Germany and in Texas. The academic is a guy called Robert Idell. I have spent a number of hours with other colleagues talking to him. He has written a paper that doesn't look at the levelized cost of electricity, which is what the gen Cost Report does by CSIRO, but what is called the levelized full system cost of electricity. It includes things, so the levelized cost of electricity for you don't need to know bring.
Our viewers into this.
Just to bring our viewers into this, the CSIRO, i think, has said that it would cost about eight point five billion dollars per nuclear reactor.
That's what you're told about.
But you're saying that's not an accurate picture of the full cost.
Well, that cost is irrelevant once you understand that the levelized cost the cost that is the one that puts the electrons on the grid, and more importantly, the levelized full system cost. So the levelized cost which CSIRO uses is not the same as the cost of the consumer
that we experience. To put it in real terms, in published work based on real grids in Germany and in Texas, the levelized full cost of electricity in Texas for solar panels, for example, is one hundred and twenty two US dollars per mega.
What our ady Patterson I apologize we are out of time. Look I think our viewers that might have sounded very complicated. But I tell you what, we're going to learn a lot more about nuclear technology in the next ten months before the next election.
You never know, we'll all end up sounding like eighty Patterson. I see you tomorrow at eight. Here's poor Murray